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Goonie Alt	Posted - 2007.08.11 03:32:00 - [31] Originally by: coldplasma Edited by: coldplasma on 10/08/2007 22:24:55 Why is there no counter to cloakers who sit in your key 0.0 systems 24/7 so that noone can rat or mine? Why not? Because you're afraid that your lone barge will get blown up? Can you see a simple, logical solution here?
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2007.08.11 03:34:00 - [32] People get their rocks off by doing as little as possible to gain as much as possible. This is just another form of griefing. Whether its right or wrong in need of change is to be discussed. I personally think they are lamers... but you can call them all you want, they'll keep coming back, because they know it annoys you... and they know they are 100% safe. Show me a piewat that has balls... they are rare. That is the most this thread will reveal I'm afraid. Piewat = pathetic
Goonie Alt	Posted - 2007.08.11 03:36:00 - [33] Originally by: Pithecanthropus Piewat = pathetic A pirate that fights fairly is not a pirate.
Modrak Vseth	Posted - 2007.08.11 03:38:00 - [34] Originally by: Pithecanthropus Show me a piewat that has balls... they are rare. That is the most this thread will reveal I'm afraid. Piewat = pathetic I thought this thread was more about 0.0 fleet type activity and the effect AFK cloakers have on said fleets operations? signature removed - please resize it to be less than 120 pixels in height - Jacques([email protected])
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.08.11 03:43:00 - [35] Originally by: Modrak Vseth Originally by: Pithecanthropus Show me a piewat that has balls... they are rare. That is the most this thread will reveal I'm afraid. Piewat = pathetic I thought this thread was more about 0.0 fleet type activity and the effect AFK cloakers have on said fleets operations? If a randon cloaker has that much effect on a fleets operations then I'm afraid its time to shut the player run alliances and major corps down.. At least the lag will get solved minus Jita.. Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2007.08.11 03:45:00 - [36] Having balls, and fighting fairly are two different things. If you're going to be a piewat... don't be a lazy pathetic one.
Goonie Alt	Posted - 2007.08.11 03:48:00 - [37] Originally by: Pithecanthropus Having balls, and fighting fairly are two different things. If you're going to be a piewat... don't be a lazy pathetic one. In my book the two are pretty similar. The afk cloaker is being very smart by disrupting your operations by merely existing. That's more than you can do with a small gang. You can either learn to counter it or keep losing without even fighting.
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2007.08.11 03:51:00 - [38] Originally by: Goonie Alt Originally by: Pithecanthropus Having balls, and fighting fairly are two different things. If you're going to be a piewat... don't be a lazy pathetic one. In my book the two are pretty similar. The afk cloaker is being very smart by disrupting your operations by merely existing. That's more than you can do with a small gang. You can either learn to counter it or keep losing without even fighting. exactly... you say we lose without fighting... what gives you the right to win without fighting?
D'Insane Shatner Gallente Shatner's Toupee	Posted - 2007.08.11 03:54:00 - [39] In the interest of balance.... All those ships you Neanderthals blow up have to be made by someone. Cloaking has saved many a mining operation from being a complete Lewinski for pirates. I say leave cloaking as it is. -- http://www.shatnerology.com
WT Snacks	Posted - 2007.08.11 03:55:00 - [40] Originally by: Pithecanthropus Originally by: Goonie Alt Originally by: Pithecanthropus Having balls, and fighting fairly are two different things. If you're going to be a piewat... don't be a lazy pathetic one. In my book the two are pretty similar. The afk cloaker is being very smart by disrupting your operations by merely existing. That's more than you can do with a small gang. You can either learn to counter it or keep losing without even fighting. exactly... you say we lose without fighting... what gives you the right to win without fighting? Eve itself does. I can win by calling in a massive mercenary force and have your corp surrender. There, I won without a single blow. This case is different. You have a choise, and you choose to surrender without a fight. It's your call.
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2007.08.11 03:56:00 - [41] Originally by: D'Insane Shatner In the interest of balance.... All those ships you Neanderthals blow up have to be made by someone. Cloaking has saved many a mining operation from being a complete Lewinski for pirates. I say leave cloaking as it is. claoking is fine... its the way its abused thats the problem. AFK cloaking... you get it?
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2007.08.11 03:57:00 - [42] Originally by: WT Snacks Eve itself does. I can win by calling in a massive mercenary force and have your corp surrender. There, I won without a single blow. This case is different. You have a choise, and you choose to surrender without a fight. It's your call. nice... you get the award for the biggest stretch of the year. ***
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.11 03:58:00 - [43] Originally by: Goonie Alt You can either learn to counter it or keep losing without even fighting. The problem is that there is no counter to the AFK cloaker. Any cloaked ship in a safe spot is untouchable.
Goonie Alt	Posted - 2007.08.11 04:00:00 - [44] Originally by: Elmicker Originally by: Goonie Alt You can either learn to counter it or keep losing without even fighting. The problem is that there is no counter to the AFK cloaker. Any cloaked ship in a safe spot is untouchable. It also can't touch you. Why people don't realize this, we'll never know.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.08.11 04:02:00 - [45] Originally by: WT Snacks Eve itself does. I can win by calling in a massive mercenary force and have your corp surrender. There, I won without a single blow. So A level 4 mission alt spamming - bugged 10/10 exploration plex running corp hires a real pvp corp to do their bidding and pwns the sovereignty game.. More power to you.. Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2007.08.11 04:06:00 - [46] Originally by: Goonie Alt Originally by: Elmicker Originally by: Goonie Alt You can either learn to counter it or keep losing without even fighting. The problem is that there is no counter to the AFK cloaker. Any cloaked ship in a safe spot is untouchable. It also can't touch you. Why people don't realize this, we'll never know. Okay, so if it can't touch you... why do you put it there and walk away for 8 hours? What's the reason? Oh wait... you are doing it for something... right?
Goonie Alt	Posted - 2007.08.11 04:08:00 - [47] Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Originally by: WT Snacks Eve itself does. I can win by calling in a massive mercenary force and have your corp surrender. There, I won without a single blow. So A level 4 mission alt spamming - bugged 10/10 exploration plex running corp hires a real pvp corp to do their bidding and pwns the sovereignty game.. More power to you.. Is this an oblique reference to BoB or am I missing something here?
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.08.11 04:09:00 - [48] Originally by: Goonie Alt Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Originally by: WT Snacks Eve itself does. I can win by calling in a massive mercenary force and have your corp surrender. There, I won without a single blow. So A level 4 mission alt spamming - bugged 10/10 exploration plex running corp hires a real pvp corp to do their bidding and pwns the sovereignty game.. More power to you.. Is this an oblique reference to BoB or am I missing something here? Nope.. Not missing a thing.. Long Live Eve.. Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.11 04:14:00 - [49] Originally by: Goonie Alt It also can't touch you. Why people don't realize this, we'll never know. Yes it can. Its mere presence is enough to stop all carebear activity. Aside from that, there's always the risk it can uncloak and attack something. This could happen at any time, hence the stoppage of all carebear activities. I myself have done this from time to time - staying cloaked in an enemy outpost system for hours at a time, occasionally scanning the belts and popping any idiots passing by. There could be nothing done about it, and if i chose to not decloak and potentially spring a trap - i could never be touched and the system could never be used.
BubbaZanetti	Posted - 2007.08.11 05:42:00 - [50] Originally by: Pithecanthropus Okay, so if it can't touch you... why do you put it there and walk away for 8 hours? What's the reason? Oh wait... you are doing it for something... right? Yes. It's done because you're using local as an all powerful intelligence tool. It's not supposed to be that. We'd like it removed. But there's incessant whining about keeping it, and, for the moment, it's still here. So, we've adapted, and figured out how to use local as a tool against you. Which of course causes nothing but an epic whine cascade, because rather than adapt yourselves, you'd rather just see everything nerfed.
Vrizuh Eve Defence Force Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.08.11 07:32:00 - [51] I have 2 covert ops pilots and I don't care if a counter is added. The whiners aren't saying they want a carebear safe universe. They're saying they want to engage/interact/pvp with someone else who is online. Its the cloakers who sit around all day doing 0 with complete immunity that need to be dealt with. The ability to remain cloaked all day is fine of course. The ability to remain safe whilst undocked and at work? B/S. That sucks. At least put a timeout on the client so you can't afk for more than 1 hour. Or let covert ops pilot seek out the other covert ops pilot.
Steel Tigeress Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.08.11 07:47:00 - [52] Quote: Seriously, fly with friends. You are in 0.0, UNSECURED SPACE. You aren't supposed to fly blissfully afk knowing you are perfectly safe. Hell, us Empire Carebears get told to fly with friends all the time, why shouldn't you? Whining about feeling unsafe and having to worry because someone might attack you when you live in 0.0 makes us Empire Carebears seem like almighty PvPers. Heh, and they call US carebears. Deal with it. Fly with friends. Watch who you smack talk and who you turn into an enemy. Now apply every argument you just made, and apply it to cloakers.... They arnt just flying blissfully in UNSECURED space. They are flying blissfully through ENEMY unsecured space AFK, knowing they are perfectly safe. I meen hell, you Empire carebears get told to fly with friends all the time... why should afk cloakers in harsh 0.0 be any different? And to the person that said use probes, and smartbombs. 2 problems.... 1) cloakers cant be probed....duh. 2) Smartbombs DONT REMOVE CLOAK...try it with a friend befor you post, it makes you look less foolish if you know of what you speak.
Naate Minmatar The Elear Eastern Star Federation	Posted - 2007.08.11 07:53:00 - [53] I think one of the main reasons Local still exists is that without it, the sense of it being an online game with other people out there that exist outside your own alliance/corp is lost to quite a high degree. The universe suddenly becomes devoid of activity all over - perception-wise, anyway - other than 'those annoying gits afk outside the station getting in your way' you bump into from time to time. To those without a corp, the question of, 'Why not play a single player game instead?' will rear it's head. Further the contrast felt between travelling through the busy hub sectors compared to that of periphial 0.0 would be lost to a large degree. All opinion of course, and just my thoughts on the matter. Even all that said I do agree that Local is a far more powerful tool than it was perhaps originally intended. Perhaps forcing local into 'Recent talkers' mode rather than instant update of all people in system, but still maintain an up to date and current player count within the system. Local hubs will still be what they are today, a hustle of chatter throughout the system, whereas the quieter systems will be.. well.. quiet. Can't account for every player in your system? Better bust out the probes! If that change or something similar is made, I think it fair enough that probes have a chance of finding cloaked ships. If not, it's best things remain as they stand. --- IGB Corp Sites
Cleric JohnPreston	Posted - 2007.08.11 09:19:00 - [54] Originally by: coldplasma Edited by: coldplasma on 10/08/2007 22:24:55 Why is there no counter to cloakers who sit in your key 0.0 systems 24/7 so that noone can rat or mine? Why is there no sort of compromise to putting yourself on the front line right amongst the enemy forces? They nerf the NOS because they think it is overpowered, but as it stands, there is NOTHING you can do to get rid of these people. The ability to cloak and never be caught means that tactics that some corps use can never be defeated without some sheer luck. Tactics such as sitting a few snipers 239km off a gate cloaked and putting a cloaking dictor on the gate so that when anybody jumps in, the dictor drops a bubble, the person can't escape and thus the snipers have all the time in the world to uncloak and lock them and pop them. The snipers either then recloak or warp off to a safespot and cloak so that no gang, no matter how big it is, has a chance of catching them. There NEEDS to be some sort of way to get around this, maybe by using specialised probes to find them. Discuss. SO lets change the way the game works because you dont like ppl AFK cloaking. Grow-up.
CaldariAdam	Posted - 2007.08.11 09:48:00 - [55] There is no counter because any probe or scan would kill off force recons. An afk-timer is sure to come in one of the next big patches.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.08.11 09:51:00 - [56] It does occur to ask the following of the OP: How many times have you lost a ship to a cloaked attacker? Thats right...ZERO Although I would not object to an AFK timeout-leave covops and recons alone please. "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Demonor Gallente Setenta Corp	Posted - 2007.08.11 10:48:00 - [57] sigh Simple solution if it was implemented. Forget Cloak probing because then people will whine and dine about that. Solution? Just make Cloaking device drain caps just like every other active device Make Sense? YES YES. HE cant use cap booster because while being cloaked he cant activate any other mods. So Will have to unlcloak sooner or later thats when you nab him. I dont see why they didnt think of this in the beginning.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.11 11:05:00 - [58] Originally by: CaldariAdam There is no counter because any probe or scan would kill off force recons. You've never tried probing down a force recon, have you? You almost always end up 30km+ away from them. Add in some difficulty for being cloaked, and you're talking landed 60km+ away from them. As long as the pilot is not AFK, he will see this and warp away. That, or simply orbit you at 10km, loling all the way. Bear in mind they would be probable, but not scannable, so there would be no instant jump to the most accurate probes. You'd have to spend time narrowing their location down, during which time, any legitimate cloaker would have bounced through 16 different safespots. Only AFKers would be affected. Originally by: RuleoftheBone How many times have you lost a ship to a cloaked attacker? Thats right...ZERO Don't be an arse. The problem is not losing ships. Try reading the thread. (Speaking of which - is it just me, or are the only people who are opposed to any changes those who are not in a position of holding 0.0 territory? Its not that i've got anything against that, the likes of Veto do what they do and do it well, but how, with no experience of the situation, can they comment on it?)
Alakazam Bob The Builder Breidablik	Posted - 2007.08.11 11:14:00 - [59] Originally by: Cipher7 Nobody should be %100 safe in Eve, including Cov Ops. Yes!!!! Let's remove docking!!!!
Felysta Sandorn Caldari System-Lords Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.08.11 11:22:00 - [60] AFK cloaking in a system is an amazing tactic employed by many to tie up enemy resources... One way to counter such a ploy is to have a friendly Arazu pilot in system or nearby that can come to your aid at a moments notice, damp the hostile, and get you both to safety. Recons as a general rule don't have the DPS to kill someone before help can arrive. Alternatively, have some protection sat next to you if you're that worried! This is 0.0, not Hello Kitty World... There are risks, get over it! If you don't want the risk of being attacked in your system, either go and macro-mine in empire, or find a new game. Besides, you're in IAC, isn't one of your mottos 'Strength In Numbers'? It was when I used to fight you guys... Not as bad as some, but 3:2 ratios weren't uncommon. Surely you have members in the same system that can hop in combat ships and help you out? Latest Video, Click Here!

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