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EveJoker
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.08.11 11:23:00 -
[61]
Edited by: EveJoker on 11/08/2007 11:25:36
Edited by: EveJoker on 11/08/2007 11:23:59
To the OP
This is a laugh, your complaining about a tactic that both IAC and CVA used heavily on UK, and still use to this day?
I belive we managed to tempt your recons and coverts out with tastey bait (haulers). If they dont take the bait their probably AFK and who cares. Perhaps you could try doing what UK did, unless you get some enjoyment out of forum posts.
ps bwhahahahahahahahahahahahah ha ha
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Esk Esme
Caldari
High4Life
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Posted - 2007.08.11 11:23:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Esk Esme on 11/08/2007 11:27:48
YAAAAAWN another crieying****
shut the hell up adapt
we dont spend weeks of our payed acoutn time to get to good covert/recon skills to have some**** criying about it all the time
WTF u ppl want EVE to b stagnent ppl train and use this skill time ( wich is payed for ) just liek your EvE time
so go nerf your own crap
OMFG EvE full of pu55y's ITS NOT SUPOSED TO B EASY
no i dont look at keybord when i type
if u cant adapt join them
i dont agree with cloaking in plexes /cozmos/exploration
but as far as cloakign in a system to disrupt enemy isk making is a valid tactic been done for ages get used to it
if u feel that strongly get a gang go rat in 2's mine with friends u greedy f**k's instead of soloing it
wtf all the NERF'S
NERF the crying****'s in eve
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Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising
FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.08.11 11:25:00 -
[63]
 Originally by: Esk Esme
stuff
Don't you look at your keyboard when you type?
Have you read the thread? There is no way to adapt. There is no counter to a cloaked ship.
If anything, allowing cloaked ships to be probable would reduce the stagnancy, as it would make the lives of recon pilots more... interesting.
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Tommy TenKreds
Caldari
Animal.
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Posted - 2007.08.11 11:33:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Elmicker
Originally by: Goonie Alt
It also can't touch you. Why people don't realize this, we'll never know.
Yes it can. Its mere presence is enough to stop all carebear activity. Aside from that, there's always the risk it can uncloak and attack something. This could happen at any time, hence the stoppage of all carebear activities.
So let me get this straight. You're saying:-
Single (AFK?) cloaker = risk = cease all "carebear" activity
WTF??
Risk should be everywhere in Eve. Fly with mates or risk losing the odd ship to a cloaker that actually engages.
Try:-
Mining in a herd with guards
Having your own gang camp the station you run missions out of
Ofc this requires organization to run mining, ratting or mission running as corp/ alliance ops.
I've seen some corps do this very well, where 30 pilots enter a dead end system, close down the gates, camp the NPC stations and then a dozen of them mission ***** for a few hours while everyone else logs off. 
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Weer Treyt
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Posted - 2007.08.11 11:38:00 -
[65]
It is guerrilla warfare and thus perfectly in the scope of this game, especially in alliance dominated 0.0 space.
Weer Treyt
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Esk Esme
Caldari
High4Life
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Posted - 2007.08.11 11:50:00 -
[66]
If anything, allowing cloaked ships to be probable would reduce the stagnancy, as it would make the lives of recon pilots more... interesting.
Bull sh!t m8 our lives r intresting enough
if u could prob a cloak WTF would b the point in skillign for recon/covert
just coz a few 0.0 carebare's cant mine/rat they favourate system BOOHOO BOOHOO go cry u pu55y's
find a new system GET A GANG GOING thats how u adapt to cloak u f**k wit a cloaker lot less likly to decloak and attack if u have fire power with you
liek an inty has speed for tank/ a bs has shield/ammor/structure as tank a cloaker has cloak for tank
or shall we all put our guns away go buy each other a drink in jita and get the mining lazer's out
oh btw any self proclaimed english teacher u more than welcome to point out my typeing error's as im sure it will boost your ego mwhahahaha
if u need it boosting go get a life
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Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising
FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.08.11 12:04:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Having your own gang camp the station you run missions out of
Missions? I'm sorry - do we look like peasants from the outer ring?
And to whoever said move on: Give me a way to pick up an outpost and bring that along with me and great, yeah, i'll happily move to keep the carebears safe.
Quote:
Risk should be everywhere in Eve. Fly with mates or risk losing the odd ship to a cloaker that actually engages.
Risk is everywhere. However, risk is not a fixed quantity. Being in an empty system, or a system filled with blues is low-risk (still at risk to a fast nanoship, logonski or the rats). Being in a system with a neutral or hostile instantly increases that risk exponentially. Carebearing with a hostile in system does not happen. When that hostile cannot be removed, carebearing never starts again, and your entire system is made useless for your carebears by a single alt in a cloaked ship.
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Trent NowImNothing
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Posted - 2007.08.11 12:07:00 -
[68]
The whole point of your post is you want a way to find a cloaked ship. Can you see the flaw in that?
Hell the only way you know their might be someone cloaked somewhere in the system is the local chat . (thats there for convenience) Local wasn't meant for you to use has a make shift scanning device to tell who's in the system.
I'm sitting here trying to figure out why a way to counter a cloaker ...... Maybe try skilling cloak yourself? then if you're attacked you can cloak.
The only problem I can see is Local chat should be fixed to where you can't see who's in the system as someone already suggested.
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Nicholas Barker
MASS
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2007.08.11 12:09:00 -
[69]
stop with these afk cloak threads ffs. The counter to him being in local is the locals working as a team, yeah his pilgrim can **** you up if he uncloaks 10km away from your while you're tackling a triple spawn, so NPC in a gang with the locals, moment he uncloaks concentrate on tanking and wait for your buddys to come in and kill him.
Comparable threads to afk cloaker threads:
"omg nerf camping bottleneck systems"
"why can't i warp when in bubble ffs?"
"he shouldn't be able to kill me in that ship my ship should rock"
"nerf bumping, wcs reign supreme"
"pls put ark in kisogo, 0.0 is mean"
---
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Nicholas Barker
MASS
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2007.08.11 12:10:00 -
[70]
another idea, use a different system to mine in.
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Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
Animal.
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Posted - 2007.08.11 12:11:00 -
[71]
Quote:
Carebearing with a hostile in system does not happen. When that hostile cannot be removed, carebearing never starts again, and your entire system is made useless for your carebears by a single alt in a cloaked ship.
Mate, you and your buddies totally lose my respect. 
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Esk Esme
Caldari
High4Life
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Posted - 2007.08.11 12:18:00 -
[72]
its allways about the damn carbare's
what about the pvper for a change
comon for f**k sake
we dont care anymore come to think of it we never did
ic ant mine coz tere a cloaker here MWHAHAHAHA GOOD THEN WE R DOIGN OUR JOB
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Jeats Cheats
Minmatar
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.08.11 12:31:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Jeats Cheats on 11/08/2007 12:33:16
Originally by: coldplasma
Edited by: coldplasma on 10/08/2007 22:24:55
Why is there no counter to cloakers who sit in your key 0.0 systems 24/7 so that noone can rat or mine? Why is there no sort of compromise to putting yourself on the front line right amongst the enemy forces?
It isn't so much fun when your tactics are turned against your alliance is it?
I think I better afk now
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Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.08.11 12:36:00 -
[74]
I think I'll have to open with LMFAO - OMFG - No wai!!!
IAC crying about AFK cloakers, I thought it was a joke when I heard about this. IAC and CVA did this to us for weeks on end. We adapted, your turn!
LMFAO, sorry, this made my day. No, week.
I'll never forget the last time 3 IAC cloakers decided to have a go at my 'AFK, on AP honest guv" Cyclone. Fun times, I had a laugh watching your boys run. Don't tarnish it with this now someone is using your own tricks against you.
>> RECRUITING << |
Jon Hawkes
The Littlest Hobos
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.08.11 12:37:00 -
[75]
IAC crying about AFK cloakers...?
Boo bloody hoo.
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steamy
The Littlest Hobos
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.08.11 12:37:00 -
[76]
Good comedy factor post coming from an alliance that has been doing the exact same thing to others for a few months now.
Join the club
Steamy
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JaffaCake
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Posted - 2007.08.11 12:44:00 -
[77]
Um, AFK cloakers? Remove local then you won't know they're there 
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Cleric JohnPreston
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Posted - 2007.08.11 12:47:00 -
[78]
This thread is up there with that crap " nerf sensor damps thread " and ultimately it fails on every level to deliver -just like the crap about sensor damps.
Theres more important things to fix in EVE that ******* cloakers and if you cant see that FAOD > WOW.
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Kimiko Kurosawa
The Krugerrand Groupies
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Posted - 2007.08.11 12:49:00 -
[79]
Wow, this craze for wanting nerfs has gotten so out of hand they want to nerf people that aren't even there!
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Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising
FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.08.11 13:15:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Elmicker on 11/08/2007 13:16:11
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Mate, you and your buddies totally lose my respect.
For what? For being careful with our industry and ratting ships? If you rat in a system with a hostile in, you will lose your ship. You might get lucky and survive once or twice, but you WILL lose your ship. NPC'ing in a gang will just cause the entire gang to lose their ships. A well piloted pilgrim or two could easily take on 4-5 ratting ravens and come out without a scratch.
When a hostile enters system, you must immediately move to counter him. This means changing to PvP ships and setting up traps and camps. However, these do not work. The cloaker gains nothing from springing the trap and is achieving his objectives simply by being there.
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Get over yourself. You think you're too leet to run missions but you divide your own alliance into carebears and non-carebears and then won't send people out if there's a single hostile in local. Pluuh..eeese!
Again with the assumptions. You assumed we (hypothetical we, i'm no longer a regular 0.0 resident) were running missions in backwater NPC 0.0. You assume we're split into carebears and non-carebears. You assume we don't ever leave the station at a hint of a hostile.
The reverse is true - AFK cloakers are effective because people do try to respond. However, NOTHING CAN BE DONE TO COUNTER THEM. NOTHING. (edit: this is assuming the AFK cloaker isn't a member of IAC) The result is a single alt, with 0 effort and close to 0 cost, can tie up entire gangs for hours at a time, and grind all money making to a halt. This is imbalanced.
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Trent NowImNothing
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Posted - 2007.08.11 13:29:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Elmicker
Edited by: Elmicker on 11/08/2007 13:16:11
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Mate, you and your buddies totally lose my respect.
For what? For being careful with our industry and ratting ships? If you rat in a system with a hostile in, you will lose your ship. You might get lucky and survive once or twice, but you WILL lose your ship. NPC'ing in a gang will just cause the entire gang to lose their ships. A well piloted pilgrim or two could easily take on 4-5 ratting ravens and come out without a scratch.
When a hostile enters system, you must immediately move to counter him. This means changing to PvP ships and setting up traps and camps. However, these do not work. The cloaker gains nothing from springing the trap and is achieving his objectives simply by being there.
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Get over yourself. You think you're too leet to run missions but you divide your own alliance into carebears and non-carebears and then won't send people out if there's a single hostile in local. Pluuh..eeese!
Again with the assumptions. You assumed we (hypothetical we, i'm no longer a regular 0.0 resident) were running missions in backwater NPC 0.0. You assume we're split into carebears and non-carebears. You assume we don't ever leave the station at a hint of a hostile.
The reverse is true - AFK cloakers are effective because people do try to respond. However, NOTHING CAN BE DONE TO COUNTER THEM. NOTHING. (edit: this is assuming the AFK cloaker isn't a member of IAC) The result is a single alt, with 0 effort and close to 0 cost, can tie up entire gangs for hours at a time, and grind all money making to a halt. This is imbalanced.
OMMFG .... CCP wanted it this way .. you're using local chat in a way that shouldn't be used .... wtf ... all money making grinds to a hault because you're too ***** to go out and make some with 1 covert op ship sitting afk in cloak ... here's an idea .... try ratting in your pvp ship .... or better yet why not just ask CCP to just straight out pay you isk so you don't have to ubdock from the station ... get some balls and stop being such a ***** ffs.
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Shurikane
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Posted - 2007.08.11 13:42:00 -
[82]
Go Elmicker go. :D
Here's one for those who love to play the risk card: the cloaker safespots, cloaks, and then all he needs to do is wait. Risk: nil. If you make it past the gatecamps along the way, which isn't terribly difficult to do, then you can park your ship there for the rest of your life and never have to worry about ever getting popped.
Next strategy: cloaker safespots, scans the area once in a while and prods the lone defenseless ships that pass by. Risk: proportional to the ship you attack (cloaker mining crystal II!) This allows the cloaker to pressure the enemy and let them know that you are actually at the keyboard and may attack at any moment. Once you've set up the mindset in your enemy, then you can AFK for a whole week and they'll still believe you may spring to life whenever you find a target you can take on.
Now for the defense side. A ship goes ratting or mining. Risk: depends on your ability to handle the rats.
Next, ship goes ratting or mining with an enemy cloaker in system. Risk: from zero to 100%. Let's assume the cloaker is Korean and is able to sit at his keyboard without food, water or pitstop for an infinite amount of time. The defender has to work alongside the idea that somebody may be watching his every move and waiting for him to show a weakness. In practice, warp core stabilizers can do the trick most of the time as an escape plan. But now the other problem: this cloaker can spy on you, completely undetected. He'll know where you mine, how you rat, what kind of ships you and your corp flies, how many of you there are in the system on average, etc. Coordinate this with a gank squad, and this person can mount a lightning-fast attack on, say, a mining op, while remaining outside of all harm, himself. In practice, again, most of the time, your alliance mates will yell that there's an enemy gang incoming (supposing you don't work along the very edge of your sovereignty) and you'll have the time to warp to POS. Still, something doesn't add up. There is someone out there, in your system, who is able to gain a sizeable advantage on his enemy without any risk involved.
How to solve that? I have no idea. I'm not a cloaker; all I can do is read the posts and answer to the best of what I know already about cloaking. I won't formally propose a solution, but my first reaction is that the idle-time disconnect is a good idea worth discussing further (in this case, taking into assumption local chat is here to stay). All I can say is that there is a problem with cloakers working in a riskless environment, and the defending side has no way to at the very least disrupt the cloaker's activities unless said cloaker starts moving around and generating pew pew. And if that cloaker chooses not to move (or worse, smacktalks in local to prove he's physically there) then the defenders have a problem on their hands, and this problem has no solution at the moment.
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Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising
FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.08.11 13:54:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Trent NowImNothing
OMMFG .... CCP wanted it this way .. you're using local chat in a way that shouldn't be used ....
So? It's there, it's part of the game. If it's ever removed (hope not), then it'll likely be replaced by a POS-based system that does exactly the same thing. Situation is the same no matter the intelligence tool.
Quote:
wtf ... all money making grinds to a hault because you're too ***** to go out and make some with 1 covert op ship sitting afk in cloak ...
no, the ratting grinds to a halt because we go out into pvp ships thinking "Ah, great, a hostile, a fight!!" only to then waste 3 hours trying to probe down something we have no chance of finding.
Quote:
here's an idea .... try ratting in your pvp ship ....
lol.
Quote:
or better yet why not just ask CCP to just straight out pay you isk so you don't have to ubdock from the station ... get some balls and stop being such a ***** ffs.
I'm a ***** for asking a way to hunt down and kill a hostile that's entered my space? Impeccable logic, there.
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EveJoker
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.08.11 13:59:00 -
[84]
Sorry I just have to say once more:
BWHahahahahahaahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahaah
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Taipan Gedscho
Muzzletov Gewaltski Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.11 14:07:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Taipan Gedscho on 11/08/2007 14:07:53
imho there should be a timelimit of how long you can stay cloaked in a system where someone else holds sov.
put a cloaker in an enemies system, and you WILL reduce the isk generated there, maybe only marginally, but it will happen. at zero risk, during the whole time.
this is wrong, and everybody that says otherwise is just deliberately bein a *****, and knows it, too.
i have spoken
Only you can save mmorpgs - Stop crying for nerfs today! |
JaffaCake
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Posted - 2007.08.11 14:19:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Taipan Gedscho
Edited by: Taipan Gedscho on 11/08/2007 14:07:53
imho there should be a timelimit of how long you can stay cloaked in a system where someone else holds sov.
Oooh I know!!!1, a POS module of some description that emits regular cloak disrupting pulses thoughout the whole system! Of course it should need some degree of constellation sov to actually use and would affect _all_ cloaked ships.
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Traxio Nacho
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.11 14:25:00 -
[87]
With all due respect to the OP i'm sure your npcers and isk farmers wouldn't be too amused if they could be probed out   
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Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising
FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.08.11 14:51:00 -
[88]
Tommy - Have you ever actually lived in conquered 0.0? You seem to not have a clue what you're talking about.
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Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
Animal.
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Posted - 2007.08.11 14:53:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 11/08/2007 14:54:06
Originally by: Elmicker
Tommy - Have you ever actually lived in conquered 0.0? You seem to not have a clue what you're talking about.
Feel free to tell me where I'm wrong. You've done a crap job so far.
The problem seems to me to be the "my space" mindset you have. You talk about your outpost and sovereignty like that should give you the indefatigable right to send out unprotected miners into 0.0 like it was Jita.
The problem is you man.
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Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising
FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.08.11 15:00:00 -
[90]
So, that's a no? All your posturing and telling me to defend our ratters and miners is based off pure guesswork?
Let me put it this way.
Blue/empty local = safe to rat
Neutral/red local = Form pvp gang.
AFK cloaker = neutral/red in local = form pvp gang = no ratting, no mining.
There are no variables in this. No "Defending your miners." Everyone is either in a PvP gang, or they are docked/in a POS. This is how conventional 0.0 operates. Not operating this way results in dozens of dead mining barges and ratting ravens, and no number of defense gangs or ratting with friends will stop that.
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