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SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.12 10:20:00 - [121] remove local ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.12 10:31:00 - [122] Removing local would exacerbate the problem. It'd cause 0.0 to collapse overnight.
Pilok Shitfly Minmatar Soliders Of Eve The Makhai	Posted - 2007.08.12 12:17:00 - [123] Originally by: Elmicker Removing local would exacerbate the problem. It'd cause 0.0 to collapse overnight.
Cleric JohnPreston	Posted - 2007.08.12 13:26:00 - [124] Originally by: Steel Tigeress Originally by: Cleric JohnPreston Originally by: Steel Tigeress *Don't* pause (cloak) the game and go AFK in hostile territory so you can hinder your enemy while you arnt even home. What gives you the right to dictate to anyone here how to PLAY their game. I pay my money per month like you, if i want to AFK cloak in your system well thats just too ***** bad for you. Deal with it. Its my money and my play time. Bolded the important part of your poor excuse. If you are PLAYING the game, then there is no issue. If you arnt, then you are no better than a macro miner. Both accomplish things in game while not playing. Dont bother trying to correct me. If someone decides to cloak in your space to disrupt your income then it is a valid PLAY** tatic, and unless you can show me proof that it isnt why dont you FAOD?
Felysta Sandorn Caldari System-Lords Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.08.12 13:51:00 - [125] Damn you guys really are out to ruin the game, aren't you?! STOP WHINING ABOUT INANE THINGS LIKE LOCAL! They're not broken, so why are you trying to fix them! Oh noes! Someone's afk in my system, I can't mine precious veld with a macro! WHAT WILL I DO!? There's a reason I just subscribed a third account to this game, and that reason is that it's the best game I've ever played (except for Transport Tycoon), but people like you guys wanting to remove local are just trying to make it a **** poor excuse for a game! If you don't like the risks that come with EVE, I suggest you go and play Hello Kitty World Online! Removing local would kill this game... I'm guessing close to 60% of recruitments have spawned from chatting to someone in local... Think of the Goons! Someone started talking to them in Cistuvaert and Kisogo a year ago, and now they're part of one of the largest alliances in EVE. All removing local will do is give carebears a false sense of security. PvPers will, after a short amount of time, adapt, as we always do... Then it'll be 'OMG NERF T3H SCANNR' or whatever tool we use to kill the miners and ratter that are whining so damn much! Here's an idea, instead of me warping in and scrambling you, instead you get a message box that says 'Felysta Sandorn wishes to engage in PvP with you...' with the choices 'Consent' or 'Do Not Consent'. Clicking the latter will close EVE and take you to the WoW or Hello Kitty Online websites. GET OVER IT! /rant Latest Video, Click Here!
Pilok Shitfly Minmatar Soliders Of Eve The Makhai	Posted - 2007.08.12 14:14:00 - [126] Edited by: Pilok **fly on 12/08/2007 14:14:24 Originally by: Felysta Sandorn Damn you guys really are out to ruin the game, aren't you?! STOP WHINING ABOUT INANE THINGS LIKE LOCAL! They're not broken, so why are you trying to fix them! Oh noes! Someone's afk in my system, I can't mine precious veld with a macro! WHAT WILL I DO!? There's a reason I just subscribed a third account to this game, and that reason is that it's the best game I've ever played (except for Transport Tycoon), but people like you guys wanting to remove local are just trying to make it a **** poor excuse for a game! If you don't like the risks that come with EVE, I suggest you go and play Hello Kitty World Online! Removing local would kill this game... I'm guessing close to 60% of recruitments have spawned from chatting to someone in local... Think of the Goons! Someone started talking to them in Cistuvaert and Kisogo a year ago, and now they're part of one of the largest alliances in EVE. All removing local will do is give carebears a false sense of security. PvPers will, after a short amount of time, adapt, as we always do... Then it'll be 'OMG NERF T3H SCANNR' or whatever tool we use to kill the miners and ratter that are whining so damn much! Here's an idea, instead of me warping in and scrambling you, instead you get a message box that says 'Felysta Sandorn wishes to engage in PvP with you...' with the choices 'Consent' or 'Do Not Consent'. Clicking the latter will close EVE and take you to the WoW or Hello Kitty Online websites. GET OVER IT! /rant This is about cloaking in 0.0 and removing local in 0.0 If you dont understand that after 5 pages then you'll never will. And dont tell people to stop whining when all that you do is whining. And third removing local in 0.0 doesnt make it.... Ah why bother, i doubt you'll understand it
Shurikane	Posted - 2007.08.12 14:15:00 - [127] Not only that, removing local would remove the ability of allies to talk to each other when in the same system, or people in Empire who want to exchange tips - I often see people in Empire Local make a call out to other pilots about recommended ship fittings, or if this or that mission is doable, or even just to say hello. The other major problem is that, with no local at all, someone can very easily bluff his presence to other people. All I have to do if I wanna annoy an enemy corp is send one of their guys a PM, say "I'm in your system, watching your d00ds!" and let them start looking around for a person who doesn't exist. I do like Eternus' idea of turning Local into a "radar contact" sort of thing. Corp and alliance mates are always visible to each other. Blues are always visible to each other too (this goes one way: i.e.: If you set a corp to blue, you make yourself always visible to them, but they are not obliged to return the favor) If anything not corp-alliance-blue is encountered, his name pops into local with a timer next to him, or something, say, an eye icon to show someone has visual on him right now. I'd put a pretty long timer too - something from 30 minutes to an hour. If you get into system and the guy hasn't been seen for 45 minutes, then you get a quick assessment of the situation. There would also be a five-minute timer on the last chat line spoken by any non-allied pilot. It doesn't completely solve the AFK cloaker problem, but it would help out somewhat. I'd also add to Steel Tigeress' idea by suggesting a sort of "permanent tracker" for systems that have capital sovereignty. In those systems, absolutely all pilots always show on Local. That would give further weight to the advantages of having a stronghold in the alliance, and since there can be only one in each constellation, it shouldn't be too bad for the one who wants to remain hidden. Perhaps even lead to some logistical decisions on the defending side: "Do we place the outpost and capitalize the chokepoint system so we can know of hostiles, or do we place the outpost in the system that's rich in ore and where we can facilitate production? Originally by: Felysta Sandorn They're not broken, so why are you trying to fix them! There are people who think otherwise! Doesn't mean they are necessarily right, but your less than civil outburst isn't making the discussion any easier on anyone.
Felysta Sandorn Caldari System-Lords Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.08.12 14:31:00 - [128] Originally by: Shurikane Originally by: Felysta Sandorn They're not broken, so why are you trying to fix them! There are people who think otherwise! Doesn't mean they are necessarily right, but your less than civil outburst isn't making the discussion any easier on anyone. Sorry, I just find the mentality of the kind of person that wants to nerf something in the game because he can't counter it hard to converse with. These forums are full of people who want to change something to make the game easier for them... Not a lot of people visit the forums that have nothing wrong with the game, that's why things get nerfed! About 80% of subscribers are happy with local as it is, but those guys don't visit these forums often enough, so it just looks as though there's a massive issue with it when there really isn't... If you can't effectively counter something, don't cry out for a nerf... Just figure out a way to counter it... After figuring out that Amarr were rubbish for example, I adapted and made a Gallente character... I didn't sit on the forums for hours whining about the same thing over and over like some of these drones do. Just adapt. Latest Video, Click Here!
Felysta Sandorn Caldari System-Lords Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.08.12 14:36:00 - [129] Originally by: Pilok **fly And third removing local in 0.0 doesnt make it.... Ah why bother, i doubt you'll understand it Aw, someone that snuck in a swearword to their name to make themselves look cool it trying to be condescending to me... How cute... The argument as is so far: Argument: AFK cloakers ruin lives Counter: They're AFK, just ignore them Argument: But they can come back at any second and kill you Counter: Okay, have a PvPer standing by in a jamming ship and fit your ship to tank for 2 minutes Argument: Why should I? Counter: Because you're complaining! Argument: No, they just shouldn't be allowed there, nerf cloaks! Counter: Cloaks are not getting nerfed, they are not broken, so get over it. Argument: Okay, nerf local! Local is overpowered Counter: Why? Argument: Because you can see your targets and we want to mine in peace Counter: So you want a game with no risk? Argument: Yes Counter: Join Hello Kitty World Argument: Nerf counter-arguments! Latest Video, Click Here!
Hellspawn01 Amarr Falcon Advanced Industries	Posted - 2007.08.12 14:38:00 - [130] Sigh, here we go again. Just do something like this and then nobody would need a cloak or local nerf. Ship lovers click here
Shurikane	Posted - 2007.08.12 14:48:00 - [131] Originally by: Felysta Sandorn If you can't effectively counter something, don't cry out for a nerf... Just figure out a way to counter it... After figuring out that Amarr were rubbish for example, I adapted and made a Gallente character... I didn't sit on the forums for hours whining about the same thing over and over like some of these drones do. Just adapt. Still, it doesn't all work out that way all the time. I don't care about someone changing to a race that better suits 'em, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it adapting. There's a fundamental difference between tactics and counter-tactics, and something that is perhaps not coded or balanced properly. I've played countless MMORPGs where one class in particular was nothing but cannon fodder while another class was a virtual god on two legs, and there was nothing you could do about it except pure dumb luck. Someone had chosen a class that sucked overall, tough ***, delete all your progress, start over and pick another. It just doesn't work out in my book. And now back to the topic at hand: even if someone says a thing needs fixing, it doesn't make it true instantaneously. Topic will end in either of those two conclusions: A) "Yes, there's a problem and something must be done to fix it." or B) "We decided this was not a problem after all, or we found a valid and balanced way of countering it." There can and there will be cryouts for nerfs, and in a way, that is good*. After all, the game needs feedback on what people think works and doesn't work.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.12 15:43:00 - [132] Originally by: Pilok **fly Originally by: Elmicker Removing local would exacerbate the problem. It'd cause 0.0 to collapse overnight. AFK cloakers are a no-risk method of removing the security of a blue/empty local. Removing local removes that security from everywhere. Same effect as an AFK cloaker, just in every system. no mining in 0.0 = no refine tax for 0.0 alliances = 0.0 collapse. It's honestly not that difficult.
Pilok Shitfly Minmatar Soliders Of Eve The Makhai	Posted - 2007.08.12 18:43:00 - [133] Originally by: Felysta Sandorn Aw, someone that snuck in a swearword to their name to make themselves look cool it trying to be condescending to me... How cute... This is just pathetic, but if this is the best you can come up with then i guess i have to do with it. And btw, local is the easy mode and thats why you are against removing local
Pilok Shitfly Minmatar Soliders Of Eve The Makhai	Posted - 2007.08.12 18:49:00 - [134] Originally by: Elmicker Originally by: Pilok **fly Originally by: Elmicker Removing local would exacerbate the problem. It'd cause 0.0 to collapse overnight. AFK cloakers are a no-risk method of removing the security of a blue/empty local. Removing local removes that security from everywhere. Same effect as an AFK cloaker, just in every system. no mining in 0.0 = no refine tax for 0.0 alliances = 0.0 collapse. It's honestly not that difficult. When thats all you think about, then yes its not so difficult. But without local, those attacking a mining op can be ganked more easy. Cloaked guards wont show on scanner. There are so many threads with removal of local in 0.0 (and low sec)with many good reasons why it should be removed. But i know it wont happen because Eve is going easy mode
Felysta Sandorn Caldari System-Lords Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.08.12 19:18:00 - [135] Originally by: Pilok **fly Originally by: Felysta Sandorn Aw, someone that snuck in a swearword to their name to make themselves look cool it trying to be condescending to me... How cute... This is just pathetic, but if this is the best you can come up with then i guess i have to do with it. And btw, local is the easy mode and thats why you are against removing local You just pointed out what this topic was about, you idiot... How else am I meant to reply? You don't even have a valid argument other than 'omg local shud b nerfd'... And local isn't 'easy mode', that's like saying 'market is easy mode'... It's just a game mechanic that doesn't need changing in any way, shape or form! Oh noes, someone can undercut my price on the market, market is easy mode, nerf market! What are you smoking? Because I want some... Look at it from the other angle. You're mining in your velator and see someone enter local, you info him, he's a pirate, you dock. Simple. If he stays there and you know he's in an arazu after 10 minutes, get your mate who flies an Arazu to come sit with you. Everyone knows someone with more than 1 account anyway, so one of those accounts won't be put-out much leaving their PvP ship in a system while they wait on comms for a 'Help! Im under attack!'. Oh, and I fly Amarr... Definately easy mode there... Latest Video, Click Here!
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.12 19:49:00 - [136] Edited by: Elmicker on 12/08/2007 19:48:56 Originally by: Pilok **fly But without local, those attacking a mining op can be ganked more easy. sigh 1st, how will you find the mining op? Check every belt of every system? 2nd, what happens when all the 0.0 mining has stopped and the high-end supply dries up? How will you replace ships? Quote: Cloaked guards wont show on scanner. This is a good thing? You could have 50 cloaked recons sitting 10km off your station and not know about it. All anyone would fly would be recons. No one would find anyone else. Quote: There are so many threads with removal of local in 0.0 (and low sec)with many good reasons why it should be removed. I've yet to see any reasons beyond "Local wasn't intended as an intelligence tool" and "It'll make killing things easier". Both of which are reasons which haven't been thought about for more than 30 seconds.
Pilok Shitfly Minmatar Soliders Of Eve The Makhai	Posted - 2007.08.12 20:17:00 - [137] Originally by: Elmicker 1st, how will you find the mining op? Check every belt of every system? This is a joke, right? Originally by: Elmicker 2nd, what happens when all the 0.0 mining has stopped and the high-end supply dries up? How will you replace ships? It will make 0.0 mining ops safer,scouts on the gates and you know about hostiles before the hostiles know about you. It's good to disagree about local and get a (or more) discussion going as long as its not going to be namecalling when you're (and i dont mean you) out of arguments And i'm staying of of it now, its kinda pointless, it will be removed or not, we'll see what happens.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.12 20:19:00 - [138] Originally by: Pilok **fly This is a joke, right? no? How will you find the mining op. I'm honestly interested, as you will have to check every belt of every system - especially now as mining ops can take place anywhere with the Rorqual. Quote: It will make 0.0 mining ops safer,scouts on the gates and you know about hostiles before the hostiles know about you. Unless, of course, they're already in system.
Evil Bill Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.13 04:27:00 - [139] Originally by: Elmicker Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Whining about feeling unsafe and having to worry because someone might attack you when you live in 0.0 makes us Empire Carebears seem like almighty PvPers. Don't make assumptions - The damage AFK cloakers cause is the fact that people have to respond. This means putting away their ratting ravens or mining barges, and as you put it "fly with their friends". However, when you get to this point. What happens? Nothing. You have no way of finding the cloaker, and the cloaker is achieving his objectives just by being there, so he's not going to decloak and try and attack someone. You can't simply move on and carry on elsewhere - 0.0 activity is restricted entirely by fixed infrastructure. Make cloakers probable (not scannable), but with a hefty added amount of difficulty and innaccuracy. This only damages the AFK cloakers and cloaked ratting BSs. Cloaked ships that are supposed to cloak are already very difficult to probe down, so they're almost untouched by this change. However, with a bit of persistence and "flying with friends" decloaking these annoyances could be possible, if difficult. So your beef is that cloakers force you to play as a team, to take precautions that others have to take even in secure space and you can't solo mine totally unsecured space without danger? Yeah, we need a nerf for that. Geesh.
JeanPierre Gallente Gun Metal Priests The Makhai	Posted - 2007.08.13 04:31:00 - [140] Originally by: Elmicker Originally by: Pilok **fly Originally by: Elmicker Removing local would exacerbate the problem. It'd cause 0.0 to collapse overnight. AFK cloakers are a no-risk method of removing the security of a blue/empty local. Removing local removes that security from everywhere. Same effect as an AFK cloaker, just in every system. no mining in 0.0 = no refine tax for 0.0 alliances = 0.0 collapse. It's honestly not that difficult. 0.0 was there before corps and later empires moved in. It will survive if you can't figure out how to play as a team. It's not 0.0 collapse at all. ------------------------------ Ever notice that people who spend money on beer, cigarettes, and lottery tickets are always complaining about being broke and not feeling well?
Fanjita	Posted - 2007.08.13 04:45:00 - [141] Originally by: coldplasma Edited by: coldplasma on 10/08/2007 22:24:55 Why is there no counter to cloakers who sit in your key 0.0 systems 24/7 so that noone can rat or mine? Why is there no sort of compromise to putting yourself on the front line right amongst the enemy forces? They nerf the NOS because they think it is overpowered, but as it stands, there is NOTHING you can do to get rid of these people. The ability to cloak and never be caught means that tactics that some corps use can never be defeated without some sheer luck. Tactics such as sitting a few snipers 239km off a gate cloaked and putting a cloaking dictor on the gate so that when anybody jumps in, the dictor drops a bubble, the person can't escape and thus the snipers have all the time in the world to uncloak and lock them and pop them. The snipers either then recloak or warp off to a safespot and cloak so that no gang, no matter how big it is, has a chance of catching them. There NEEDS to be some sort of way to get around this, maybe by using specialised probes to find them. Discuss. Why can no one rat or mine if theyre afk?
Trent NowImNothing	Posted - 2007.08.13 05:33:00 - [142] Local shouldn't be removed ...... what should be is the fact you can see anyone that's in or enters a system .... local can still exist but just without a list of names. again I say .. LOCAL WASN'T MEANT TO BE USED AS A MAKE-SHIFT SCANNING DEVICE TO SEE WHO'S IN THE SYSTEM. your whole argument is based on the fact you can use an exploit to see that someone is cloaked somewhere in the system and you can't find them. what a stupid thing to complain about. It's no wonder CCP hasn't commented about this thread.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.13 05:33:00 - [143] Originally by: Elmicker no? How will you find the mining op. I'm honestly interested, as you will have to check every belt of every system - especially now as mining ops can take place anywhere with the Rorqual. lol How about how everyone else finds them, like LowSec pirates? Macro hunters? HighSec wardeccers? Scan probes, directional scanner. They are faster than just randomly jumping belt to belt anyways. I would have thought as a big 0.0 person you would have known that by now... Originally by: CCP Chronotis Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.13 12:07:00 - [144] no need for the rolly eyes he isnt a 0.0 player ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
Yellow Pixie	Posted - 2007.08.13 14:54:00 - [145] Originally by: Trent NowImNothing Local shouldn't be removed ...... what should be is the fact you can see anyone that's in or enters a system .... local can still exist but just without a list of names. When people say "remove local" what you said is exactly what they are talking about. Making it so no one appears in local unless they type.

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