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Shevar
Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.08.21 09:48:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: CCP Fendahl The Curse still performs quite well in small gangs, but the Pilgrim does not, so power output has been increased:
* Pilgrim: 950mw (+100mw)
I would ask what the vision of the devs for this ship is. As indicated by the blog it is no good gang ship, so its sole purpose is soloing.
It's the only ship capable of fitting a cov ops cloak while transporting 1400m3 without using cans .
--- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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DeadDuck
Amarr IONSTAR Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.21 09:51:00 -
[62]
Love the changes.
Now up load them in Tranquility. Cant wait to put my hands in some of the ships being revisited.
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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
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Posted - 2007.08.21 09:56:00 -
[63]
I'm Caldari and I admit it: I'm jealoux... Those Khanids are gonna kick a$$ and chew bubble gum!!
Pinky - I'm a nice guy!!
MOA is NOT UGLY!!! It's A FREAK SHOW!!!! |
DeadDuck
Amarr IONSTAR Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.21 10:20:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Pinky Denmark ... Those Khanids are gonna kick a$$ and chew bubble gum!!
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Aramendel
Amarr Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.08.21 10:33:00 -
[65]
Originally by: JiJiCle goods changes, thx!
but plz anwser this :
Originally by: D Gelalder Will this affect cloaked ship in any way? (specificly on the decloaking part)
while not bumping in ridiculously small entities is good, a cloaked ship that dont decloak on corpse/wreck isnt.
another precision, you mentionned corpse and wrecks, what about ships bumping in jet cans ? (and also, decloak)
Jet cans are immaterial now too.
In a cheetah with a cov ops cloak corpses, wrecks and jet cans do NOT decloak me on sisi right now. I cannot recloak near them if I choose to decloak volunarily, though.
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Khan Soriano
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2007.08.21 10:38:00 -
[66]
This is what Revelations 2 should look like in the first place!!
Seriously, now I can see that finally somebody is doing some thinking about this game. Even if its questionable sometimes its still a step in the right direction. Keep up the good work CCP!!!
Now to the questionable things:
Damnation - Less DPS than a Caracal sounds a bit silly for a command ship, but I do agree that this way its more of a 'Command' vessel then anything else in its class.
Pilgrim - Giving it more grid doesn't solve any of its problems. Its easier to fit a 2nd repper now but whats the point if you don't have the cap to run it. Please reconsider this and think about something else, I'm sure you can come up with something. Maybe less tank (pointless now that the cap is gone) and more EW (less PG, more CPU, more meds)?? Maybe a fast ship circling around turret ships? ----- Arbitrator - Life & Death |
Garia666
Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
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Posted - 2007.08.21 10:58:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Lord Loom [:
ZOMG Kunming and all the others "laser ships are obsolete!!!1!one" idiots can stop whining now?
Kunming is one of the most experienced amarr player around. there only a few who can compete with his expertese. So **** off..
->My Vids<- |
Feng Schui
Minmatar The Ninja Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.21 11:24:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Feng Schui on 21/08/2007 11:24:52
out of all of the suggestions in the other thread about NOS and the pilgrim...
of course they choose the worse "solution" for the pilgrim. Why he doesn't make NOS sig-based is beyond me (and perhaps, make them use the "other" slot.. you know, some ships have 8 high slots (4 turret, 3 launcher.. 1 "spare").
This would be alot easier to adjust as needed...
Anyways, back to the change that is going to get pushed through regardless.. apart of the "Add powergrid to the pilgrim" solution, there was also a note to change the Role bonus from:
Quote: Role Bonus: 200-unit reduction in liquid ozone consumption for cynosural field generation and 50% reduction in cynosural field duration
to:
Quote: Role Bonus: 200-unit reduction in liquid ozone consumption for cynosural field generation and 75% reduction in Energy Emissions Capacitor Use
The Beginning <-- crap quality, need to redo, sorry :( |
Sleepkevert
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.08.21 11:24:00 -
[69]
Amarr oompfh ftw \o/
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Mr Krosis
The humble Crew Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.08.21 11:28:00 -
[70]
For reference, here is a table I made with targeting times (in seconds) for current and new POS structure scan resolutions.
The columns across the top are increasing signature radius of the object being targeted.
POS Structure Targeting Times
Something the dev blog did not mention, is that currently on sisi faction pos structures have had their targeting times nerfed from +50/100% to +10/20%, so for example the best faction small turrets now have 300mm scan res instead of 500mm.
-- Mr Krosis The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge. |
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Izo Azlion
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.08.21 11:32:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Khan Soriano This is what Revelations 2 should look like in the first place!!
Seriously, now I can see that finally somebody is doing some thinking about this game. Even if its questionable sometimes its still a step in the right direction. Keep up the good work CCP!!!
Now to the questionable things:
Damnation - Less DPS than a Caracal sounds a bit silly for a command ship, but I do agree that this way its more of a 'Command' vessel then anything else in its class.
Pilgrim - Giving it more grid doesn't solve any of its problems. Its easier to fit a 2nd repper now but whats the point if you don't have the cap to run it. Please reconsider this and think about something else, I'm sure you can come up with something. Maybe less tank (pointless now that the cap is gone) and more EW (less PG, more CPU, more meds)?? Maybe a fast ship circling around turret ships?
The Pilgrims a joke to fit anyway, its pathetically easy with Recon 5, this grid means nothing too it.
The problem with this ship is its primary weapon doesnt work how other ships primary weapons work.
Example: Arazu, Damps and Disruptors - Drawback on Arazu? Cap use easily negated by CPR's. Range and speed means tank is not vital.
Rapier, Webs and painters - Allows other BS to hit harder, keeps target at range, is generally out of harms way.
Falcon, Jammers - Completely bork any target from shooting you, if their jammed. Obviously, drones are an issue, as they are for the Arazu and Rapier, however the extreme range this ship operates at, renders it able to warp out.
Pilgrim, Nosferatu and Neutralizers, New drawback? Inflicts heavy capacitor drain on both its own and the target ship. Can fit dual rep tank, however, now it is forced to use a cap booster, if it is to operate within its own range. Drawbacks of flying a pilgrim? Once your in, your in and thats that. Its a committed fight with no range.
My faith in the development of the Pilgrim faulters at every dev blog currently, but I love the ship and I fail to see why it should be crippled for the greater good of EVE. I dont want it to turn into a 35km nano ship. I want it to work how it was first designed :/
Izo Azlion.
---
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Darekish
Caldari Ascent of Ages Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.21 11:39:00 -
[72]
Fantastic changes well done CCP :-)
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Irongut
M'8'S Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2007.08.21 11:58:00 -
[73]
Most of these changes look great, especially the Deimos ones but...
"The Flycatcher is hard to fit and compared to the Heretic it falls a bit short"
The Flycatcher is hard to fit? Really? Ever tried fitting an Eris? That thing has the stupidest slot layout, terrible cpu and the power grid isn't too great either. What has Eris done to you Fendahl? Give Eris some love before she thinks you're ignoring her and plots a terrible revenge.
Always program as if the person who will be maintaining your program is a violent psychopath that knows where you live.
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Khan Soriano
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2007.08.21 12:03:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Izo Azlion
Originally by: Khan Soriano This is what Revelations 2 should look like in the first place!!
Seriously, now I can see that finally somebody is doing some thinking about this game. Even if its questionable sometimes its still a step in the right direction. Keep up the good work CCP!!!
Now to the questionable things:
Damnation - Less DPS than a Caracal sounds a bit silly for a command ship, but I do agree that this way its more of a 'Command' vessel then anything else in its class.
Pilgrim - Giving it more grid doesn't solve any of its problems. Its easier to fit a 2nd repper now but whats the point if you don't have the cap to run it. Please reconsider this and think about something else, I'm sure you can come up with something. Maybe less tank (pointless now that the cap is gone) and more EW (less PG, more CPU, more meds)?? Maybe a fast ship circling around turret ships?
The Pilgrims a joke to fit anyway, its pathetically easy with Recon 5, this grid means nothing too it.
The problem with this ship is its primary weapon doesnt work how other ships primary weapons work.
Example: Arazu, Damps and Disruptors - Drawback on Arazu? Cap use easily negated by CPR's. Range and speed means tank is not vital.
Rapier, Webs and painters - Allows other BS to hit harder, keeps target at range, is generally out of harms way.
Falcon, Jammers - Completely bork any target from shooting you, if their jammed. Obviously, drones are an issue, as they are for the Arazu and Rapier, however the extreme range this ship operates at, renders it able to warp out.
Pilgrim, Nosferatu and Neutralizers, New drawback? Inflicts heavy capacitor drain on both its own and the target ship. Can fit dual rep tank, however, now it is forced to use a cap booster, if it is to operate within its own range. Drawbacks of flying a pilgrim? Once your in, your in and thats that. Its a committed fight with no range.
I agree completely with almost everything what you're saying here, however I don't understand why are you so stubborn in your last paragraph:
Originally by: Izo Azlion
My faith in the development of the Pilgrim faulters at every dev blog currently, but I love the ship and I fail to see why it should be crippled for the greater good of EVE. I dont want it to turn into a 35km nano ship. I want it to work how it was first designed :/
You've pointed yourself that all cloaking recons (actually it applies to non-cloaking too) don't tank and operate from distance, supporting their gank by using their EW. Problem with Pilgrim is that it tries to hard on too many fronts.
Look at Falcon and how simple it is, jammers and lots of it. Pilgrim however has 3 different bonuses to support its things!! That is because fitting NOS/Neuts deprives this ship from fitting some damage dealing modules (be it lasers or missiles).
Maybe its time to get rid of the NOS bonus on Pilgrim (so that we actually have a Tracking Disrupting EW ship) and exchange it for something else? Maybe some web invulnerability (in a reasonable way) so that it could operate inside webrange without having to tank so much? It just a thought ----- Arbitrator - Life & Death |
Daelin Blackleaf
No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty
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Posted - 2007.08.21 12:30:00 -
[75]
Delicious, give me more.
Especially, as mentioned, the Caldari Gunboats and the Minmatar Capitals.
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N1fty
Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2007.08.21 12:31:00 -
[76]
All very nice I suppose, but all the Amarr laser ships are still gimped because of omni-tanking.
Increase the stacking penalty on EAN or something, don't just increase the CPU like last time. ============================================
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Gunship
Amarr FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.21 12:31:00 -
[77]
Nice set of changes...
Could something please be done to the Apoc, its currently the most useless ship in the amarr navy of battleships. It's specialy the 10% reduction to gird fitting of lasers that makes no sence at all.
consider the low number midslots a range bonus would be better.
So you want to join us? |
Jita Shopin
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Posted - 2007.08.21 12:35:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: JiJiCle goods changes, thx!
but plz anwser this :
Originally by: D Gelalder Will this affect cloaked ship in any way? (specificly on the decloaking part)
while not bumping in ridiculously small entities is good, a cloaked ship that dont decloak on corpse/wreck isnt.
another precision, you mentionned corpse and wrecks, what about ships bumping in jet cans ? (and also, decloak)
Jet cans are immaterial now too.
In a cheetah with a cov ops cloak corpses, wrecks and jet cans do NOT decloak me on sisi right now. I cannot recloak near them if I choose to decloak volunarily, though.
This also happens currently on TQ when warping to zero on selected objects **gates**cough** although this might be some kind of bug. But you can warp to zero on a gate and not decloak you then have to manually decloak to jump
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Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.21 12:40:00 -
[79]
Quote: and now you can continue:
Zealot +1 turret Merlin, Moa and Eagle +1 turret + fitting Ferox and Vulture +2 turrets + fittings
Please please please fix these poor Caldari railboats!
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LUH 3471
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Posted - 2007.08.21 12:56:00 -
[80]
thx for the nice changes
there is just one thing missing from my point of view: more cpu for the megathron
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Aramendel
Amarr Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.08.21 13:05:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Aramendel on 21/08/2007 13:15:20
Originally by: Izo Azlion My faith in the development of the Pilgrim faulters at every dev blog currently, but I love the ship and I fail to see why it should be crippled for the greater good of EVE. I dont want it to turn into a 35km nano ship. I want it to work how it was first designed :/
The core problem of the pilgrim is that it is designed to work like a nosdomi, exept that it has some core difference which make it less powerful.
It has only half the range, half the dps, a weaker regeneration and far less base HP and cap.
And it cannot really fit for another setup unlike the dominix. Essentially all changes which made the nosdomi weaker and more balanced also nerfed the pilgrim. And since the pilgrim was from the start weaker than the nosdomi it gets hit harder by those.
Preref both the pilgrim and the nosdomi used ECM, which made both ships very powerful. Too powerful in both cases.
After the ECM changes the domi switched to damps which it could still efficiently use due to its higher operational range. The pilgrim either had to switch to TDs or a damp-ecm burst combo. While the domi was still too powerful the pilgrim was relatively balanced then. It could fulfill its role as solo hunter and was rather useless in gangs.
Now the nos changes should bring the dominix into a more balanced state, however they more or less destroy the pilgrim.
Originally by: CCP Fendahl Blockade runners have not been living up to their name as they take too long to align for warp. As a result, their agility modifier has been reduced (which makes them more agile than before). However, deep space transports have not been changed.
* Agility: 0.55 (-0.45)
Regarding this, you might want to consider to give the crane, the caldari BR, 5 more grid. The BR really need a mwd and cloak to work properly and the crane is the only BR which can with max skills only fit a t1 MWD and has then 0 grid left.
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SencneS
Amarr Balsarferskratchin Inc Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.21 13:14:00 -
[82]
Quote: 10% bonus to Heavy Assault Missile and Heavy Missile velocity per BC level 5% bonus to armor resistances per BC level (no change) 10% bonus to armor hit points per CS level 3% bonus to Armored Warfare Links per CS level (no change)
YES! Finally a Command Ship that can be a "Command ship".
All those posts I made where appreantly heard because the original K-MKII was turning a Pretty ordinary Command ship into a Brawler and that was unacceptable. No one every complained about the Lack of Damage the Damnation could deal so I love the fact you took that information and applied it to a completely acceptable version.
Long range, Heavy Tank, Moderate Damage. I have no doubt people will try and PVP with it, but there are so many other ships much better and suited for PVP then the Damnation. Moster Tank, with Long range and Moderate Damage for it's shipclass.
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Send ISK to SencneS for good Kama! |
Fon Revedhort
Aeria Gloris Inc United Legion
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Posted - 2007.08.21 13:23:00 -
[83]
Nice stuff, Fendahl.
Very pleasant to see you paying attention to the audience. *me points at the Damnation* ---
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Izo Azlion
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.08.21 13:29:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Khan Soriano Good stuff
Yeah, I realise my last sentance was a bit "Well DIAF" - reason being I'm fighting a losing battle with an engraving machine here at work.
Basically, I dont want to lose the tank on the Pilgrim, I enjoy dual repping it and its a great laugh. At the end of the day, its about enjoyment. I already run a cap booster with my Pilgrim, because when I over-nos someone, then I'm not getting enough to tank say, a Raven.
However I realise Nos needs fixing, and that it should affect the Amarrian Recons and faction ships as one and the same. Sadly, I dont think its been done right and I'm sure CCP could come up with a functional signature radius based system, that would make the Pilgrim something to be feared again.
Now, I'm not an Amarrian whiner, I dont doom say about Amarr - people that do/did need to learn how to fit them, because their some excellent pieces of hardware. I believe that this Nos fix is going to nerf the Pilgrim/Curse in the same way that the fitting bonus to Zealot isnt needed. (Unless they give us another turret... because then humping really will occur. <3)
On a completely selfish note, the Pilgrim is one of the most spectacular Piracy ships there is/was. While most of EVE dont Pirate, the Pilgrim comes into its own in solo and small engagements. This is where it should excell, too, in my opinion. Those that tell me "Oh, it shouldnt be a solopwnmobile." - It wasnt. Take a look at some of our losses, one very skilled Myrmidon pilot dropped two of our pilots who were both in Pilgrims. (Which we often laugh about) and once the Pilgrim is engaged, its there come hell or high water, short of ECM drones, WCS, other person lacking a point/MWD (Not advisable in the first place.)
On the other hand, all the other Recons can go "Oh crap, bail!" if things turn sour. (in most circumstances, anyway, I know neither of these scenarios is perfect.)
So why should the single close range Recon lose its primary weapon which keeps it alive, without some kind of compensation
I dont know how to change it with the current nos changes, but thats not my job. However its clear as day that 100mw of powergrid isnt going to make the slightest change, and forcing it to use neuts and tank, means its going to cap out. A nos boat shouldnt be 100% reliant on how many 800 charges it has. If I wanted to kill people in a Cap Boosting boat, I'd go for something that can do it - An Astarte/Absolution/Megathron etc.
Sorry to be so negative, generally this patch is okay/good, and I love what you've all done to the Deimos.
Cheers,
Izo Azlion.
---
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Luke Lamarr
Gun Metal Priests The Makhai
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Posted - 2007.08.21 13:30:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Luke Lamarr on 21/08/2007 13:31:07 Edited by: Luke Lamarr on 21/08/2007 13:30:48 /me applauses
When I saw the dev blog this morning, I was a bit afraid of reading it and expecting another wave of nerfs incoming.
I have been pleasantly surprised to find some refreshing changes. Keep up the good work!
Edit: I think that the new 'immaterial' objects should still decloak ships tho
###### <-- Box'o'cookies for the mods #MOD-# #Chow# ######
Yep, I suck at sigs, fix me!
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Beka Azrael
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Posted - 2007.08.21 13:36:00 -
[86]
Thank you for fixing the agility on the blockade runners!
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Franconis
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.21 13:39:00 -
[87]
Usually I agree with part of the balancing changes and disagree with other parts. This time though i have to say that I'm all for every change detailed in this dev blog. Props to ccp for a well needed balance tweak without too many nerfs! _________ Gallente FTW |
PAcifisti
Paisti
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Posted - 2007.08.21 14:18:00 -
[88]
Edited by: PAcifisti on 21/08/2007 14:19:21 Excuse me if I've misunderstood how the POS structure targeting and cycling system works, but this just feels pretty weird to me
Isn't there a HUGE flaw with the EW batteries? Their "original" (in rev 2) scan resolution of 10 mm gave idea that they were meant to be used against Capital ships... now, titans and motherships are immune to EW and dreads will go to Siege, leaving us with just carriers.
Evemon gives me a number of 30 sec for default target cycling speed. Doesn't this effectively mean that they won't have time to lock on anything, except some carriers before cycling targets? I havent used EW batteries in Rev 2 so I don't know exactly how it works but I can't think of anything else. How were they supposed to work in the first place with that scan res?
Rev 2.2 will give us Scan res of 50 to the EW battery that will almost clear this issue, now they will actually be able to lock on battleships before cycling to new target. But what happens if you use EW Battery with Caldari "large" tower like they are "supposed to be" used with?
-75% target cycling time, dropping us from 30 sec to 7.5s. Checking from the "POS structure Target Times" link it shows that it wont have time t lock to anything smaller than carrier (if even that) before cycling to new target? Is there something wrong here or did I misunderstand something badly? Yeah sure if you control them and order them on some certain ships they will work. Although that is hardly any solution to it as afaik there's a limited number of modules you can control at a time, and you can't possibly expect someone to be there controlling it 24/7.
You can never understand the Pain |
dragonofearth
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Posted - 2007.08.21 14:29:00 -
[89]
do ya'll plan on fixing the mining upgrades anytime soon
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Almarez
Setenta Corp
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Posted - 2007.08.21 14:36:00 -
[90]
I have to get back on test server but I can say that from what I read, I have to give the balancing team a 2 thumbs up for their changes to the Zealot, Geddon, and Khannid MkII. I don't know much about the Deimos or Muninn so I can really comment on them, but I'll take their word for it.
What playing Amarr feels like.
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