Quote:

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Corpse and Wreck Bumping
Using corpses and wrecks to "warp scramble" ships has been an increasing problem. Unfortunately, improving our physics engine - Destiny - requires resources we don't have for the foreseeable future, so that small objects would the expected, negligible effect on larger objects. Instead corpses and wrecks will be immaterial, ships will pass through them without becoming stuck.

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Quote:

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Why didn't we use them 80 man-years to fix bugs?

Well, that's simple. We can't. These are visual ar

Quote:

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Corpse and Wreck Bumping
Using corpses and wrecks to "warp scramble" ships has been an increasing problem. Unfortunately, improving our physics engine - Destiny - requires resources we don't have for the foreseeable future, so that small objects would the expected, negligible effect on larger objects. Instead corpses and wrecks will be immaterial, ships will pass through them without becoming stuck.

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Originally by: Kvarium Ki

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What about Minmatar capitals?

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Quote:

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Why didn't we use them 80 man-years to fix bugs?

Well, that's simple. We can't. These are visual ar

Originally by: Dakisha

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Edited by: Dakisha on 21/08/2007 00:11:25
The damnation just became a joke.

Seriously. It's a caracal with a tank. In fact, on the caracal you have lows to use for bcu's - so I take it back; the caracal has more DPS.

Poor Amarr :<


edit: the general balancing rocks :)

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Quote:

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Why didn't we use them 80 man-years to fix bugs?

Well, that's simple. We can't. These are visual ar

Originally by: Valandril

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more cpu on megat too ? Fitting it with t2 blastersetup even with -5% turret cpu is problematic...

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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a joke? it's suppose to give gang bonuses before being a pwnmobile.
now you have a gang bonus ship that can't be taken out.

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Quote:

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Instead corpses and wrecks will be immaterial, ships will pass through them without becoming stuck.

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Originally by: unhealthyman

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POS warfare is boring enough. The combination of a cyno jammer and improved POS guns will make invading a well defended system extremely unfun. It already takes a large battleship gang, a dedicated repping group and a lot of organisation to not die at well defended poses.

No one seems to think that killing endless modules and poses is fun, so why make it harder?

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Originally by: Lori Verkutya

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I just checked Deimos on Tranq:

Mass: 12,000,000 kg

And in the DevBlog:

10,000,000kg (-1,000,000kg)

So which is true after all ?

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Originally by: Goumindong

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Just what the Zealot needed! More powergrid that it could ever possibly use.

/sarcasm

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Originally by: phillie blunt

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Originally by: Lori Verkutya

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I just checked Deimos on Tranq:

Mass: 12,000,000 kg

And in the DevBlog:

10,000,000kg (-1,000,000kg)

So which is true after all ?

---

the new changes are in SiSi, not yet in Tranq

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Originally by: umop 3pisdn

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Originally by: unhealthyman

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POS warfare is boring enough. The combination of a cyno jammer and improved POS guns will make invading a well defended system extremely unfun. It already takes a large battleship gang, a dedicated repping group and a lot of organisation to not die at well defended poses.

No one seems to think that killing endless modules and poses is fun, so why make it harder?

---

Because they are losing, that simple....

p.s. deimos needs more love than that in the age of nanofags

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Quote:

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Starbase Battery Scan Resolutions

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Quote:

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Corpse and Wreck Bumping

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Quote:

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General Balancing Issues

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Quote:

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Deimos:

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Quote:

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The Flycatcher is hard to fit and compared to the Heretic it falls a bit short, so the fitting as been improved to allow it to easier fit tech 2 Standard Missile Launchers:

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Quote:

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Blockade runners have not been living up to their name as they take too long to align for warp. As a result, their agility modifier has been reduced (which makes them more agile than before).

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Quote:

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The Caldari dreadnought, carrier and mothership lacked CPU for fitting shield tanks, so they have been boosted as follows:

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Quote:

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Khanid mk 2 Adjustments

Finally the cargo capacities on the Khanid ships have been increased (so they have room for missiles)

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Quote:

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and the number of turret hardpoints have been increased back to normal levels (to ease the transition for pilots who have no missile skills):

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Originally by: JP Beauregard

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The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls....

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Originally by: Shevar

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Edited by: Shevar on 21/08/2007 08:36:14
Would much rather see the amarr get a more usefull bonus then to energy neuts/nos for the recons. Neuts and nos are (or better said where) nice for solo, but in any engagement with more then 7 ships orso the use of being able of killing cap is greatly diminished (not useless but significantly less usefull then for example 50+ km web range or scramble range).

Also I still don't understand why do you make Nos dependant on something which we can't see? We can't know at what level our opponents cap is, so why make nos dependant on the ammount of cap the opponent has?

Anyways for the rest the changes seem nice .

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Originally by: Goumindong

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Edited by: Goumindong on 21/08/2007 03:26:43
Just what the Zealot needed! More powergrid that it could ever possibly use.

/sarcasm

ed; Khanid changes are great, Geddon CPU is good, Damnation double tank bonus is especialy good.

edit2:
[quote#
# Sacrilege: 615m3 (+165m3), turrets: 4
# Damnation: 645m3 cargo (+295m3), turrets: 4

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Originally by: SiJira

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Originally by: Goumindong

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Edited by: Goumindong on 21/08/2007 03:26:43
Just what the Zealot needed! More powergrid that it could ever possibly use.

/sarcasm

ed; Khanid changes are great, Geddon CPU is good, Damnation double tank bonus is especialy good.

edit2:
[quote#
# Sacrilege: 615m3 (+165m3), turrets: 4
# Damnation: 645m3 cargo (+295m3), turrets: 4

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Dont you think that those might be a little bit big?

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Originally by: D Gelalder

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Will this affect cloaked ship in any way? (specificly on the decloaking part)

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Originally by: Aramendel

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Originally by: CCP Fendahl

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The Curse still performs quite well in small gangs, but the Pilgrim does not, so power output has been increased:

* Pilgrim: 950mw (+100mw)

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I would ask what the vision of the devs for this ship is. As indicated by the blog it is no good gang ship, so its sole purpose is soloing.

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Originally by: Pinky Denmark

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... Those Khanids are gonna kick a$$ and chew bubble gum!!

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Originally by: JiJiCle

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goods changes, thx!

but plz anwser this :

Originally by: D Gelalder

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Will this affect cloaked ship in any way? (specificly on the decloaking part)

---

while not bumping in ridiculously small entities is good, a cloaked ship that dont decloak on corpse/wreck isnt.

another precision, you mentionned corpse and wrecks, what about ships bumping in jet cans ? (and also, decloak)

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Originally by: Lord Loom

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[:

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Quote:

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Role Bonus: 200-unit reduction in liquid ozone consumption for cynosural field generation and 50% reduction in cynosural field duration

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Quote:

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Role Bonus: 200-unit reduction in liquid ozone consumption for cynosural field generation and 75% reduction in Energy Emissions Capacitor Use

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Originally by: Khan Soriano

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This is what Revelations 2 should look like in the first place!!

Seriously, now I can see that finally somebody is doing some thinking about this game. Even if its questionable sometimes its still a step in the right direction. Keep up the good work CCP!!!

Now to the questionable things:

Damnation - Less DPS than a Caracal sounds a bit silly for a command ship, but I do agree that this way its more of a 'Command' vessel then anything else in its class.

Pilgrim - Giving it more grid doesn't solve any of its problems. Its easier to fit a 2nd repper now but whats the point if you don't have the cap to run it. Please reconsider this and think about something else, I'm sure you can come up with something. Maybe less tank (pointless now that the cap is gone) and more EW (less PG, more CPU, more meds)?? Maybe a fast ship circling around turret ships?

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Originally by: Izo Azlion

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Originally by: Khan Soriano

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This is what Revelations 2 should look like in the first place!!

Seriously, now I can see that finally somebody is doing some thinking about this game. Even if its questionable sometimes its still a step in the right direction. Keep up the good work CCP!!!

Now to the questionable things:

Damnation - Less DPS than a Caracal sounds a bit silly for a command ship, but I do agree that this way its more of a 'Command' vessel then anything else in its class.

Pilgrim - Giving it more grid doesn't solve any of its problems. Its easier to fit a 2nd repper now but whats the point if you don't have the cap to run it. Please reconsider this and think about something else, I'm sure you can come up with something. Maybe less tank (pointless now that the cap is gone) and more EW (less PG, more CPU, more meds)?? Maybe a fast ship circling around turret ships?

---

The Pilgrims a joke to fit anyway, its pathetically easy with Recon 5, this grid means nothing too it.

The problem with this ship is its primary weapon doesnt work how other ships primary weapons work.

Example: Arazu, Damps and Disruptors - Drawback on Arazu? Cap use easily negated by CPR's. Range and speed means tank is not vital.

Rapier, Webs and painters - Allows other BS to hit harder, keeps target at range, is generally out of harms way.

Falcon, Jammers - Completely bork any target from shooting you, if their jammed. Obviously, drones are an issue, as they are for the Arazu and Rapier, however the extreme range this ship operates at, renders it able to warp out.

Pilgrim, Nosferatu and Neutralizers, New drawback? Inflicts heavy capacitor drain on both its own and the target ship. Can fit dual rep tank, however, now it is forced to use a cap booster, if it is to operate within its own range. Drawbacks of flying a pilgrim? Once your in, your in and thats that. Its a committed fight with no range.

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Originally by: Izo Azlion

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My faith in the development of the Pilgrim faulters at every dev blog currently, but I love the ship and I fail to see why it should be crippled for the greater good of EVE. I dont want it to turn into a 35km nano ship. I want it to work how it was first designed :/

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Originally by: Aramendel

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Originally by: JiJiCle

---

goods changes, thx!

but plz anwser this :

Originally by: D Gelalder

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Will this affect cloaked ship in any way? (specificly on the decloaking part)

---

while not bumping in ridiculously small entities is good, a cloaked ship that dont decloak on corpse/wreck isnt.

another precision, you mentionned corpse and wrecks, what about ships bumping in jet cans ? (and also, decloak)

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Jet cans are immaterial now too.

In a cheetah with a cov ops cloak corpses, wrecks and jet cans do NOT decloak me on sisi right now. I cannot recloak near them if I choose to decloak volunarily, though.

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Quote:

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and now you can continue:

Zealot +1 turret
Merlin, Moa and Eagle +1 turret + fitting
Ferox and Vulture +2 turrets + fittings

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Originally by: Izo Azlion

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My faith in the development of the Pilgrim faulters at every dev blog currently, but I love the ship and I fail to see why it should be crippled for the greater good of EVE. I dont want it to turn into a 35km nano ship. I want it to work how it was first designed :/

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Originally by: CCP Fendahl

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Blockade runners have not been living up to their name as they take too long to align for warp. As a result, their agility modifier has been reduced (which makes them more agile than before). However, deep space transports have not been changed.

* Agility: 0.55 (-0.45)

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Quote:

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10% bonus to Heavy Assault Missile and Heavy Missile velocity per BC level
5% bonus to armor resistances per BC level (no change)
10% bonus to armor hit points per CS level
3% bonus to Armored Warfare Links per CS level (no change)

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Originally by: Khan Soriano

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Good stuff

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Originally by: Kvarium Ki

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What about Minmatar capitals?

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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Originally by: Dakisha

---

Edited by: Dakisha on 21/08/2007 00:11:25
The damnation just became a joke.

Seriously. It's a caracal with a tank. In fact, on the caracal you have lows to use for bcu's - so I take it back; the caracal has more DPS.

Poor Amarr :<


edit: the general balancing rocks :)

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a joke? it's suppose to give gang bonuses before being a pwnmobile.
now you have a gang bonus ship that can't be taken out.

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Originally by: Goumindong

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Edited by: Goumindong on 21/08/2007 03:26:43
Just what the Zealot needed! More powergrid that it could ever possibly use.

/sarcasm

ed; Khanid changes are great, Geddon CPU is good, Damnation double tank bonus is especialy good.

edit2:
[quote#
# Sacrilege: 615m3 (+165m3), turrets: 4
# Damnation: 645m3 cargo (+295m3), turrets: 4

---

Originally by: Aramendel

---

Edited by: Aramendel on 21/08/2007 09:39:38

Originally by: CCP Fendahl

---

The Curse still performs quite well in small gangs, but the Pilgrim does not, so power output has been increased:

* Pilgrim: 950mw (+100mw)

---

I would ask what the vision of the devs for this ship is. As indicated by the blog it is no good gang ship, so its sole purpose is soloing.

So what can or should it do? It has only an effective range of 12k, so it needs to get close. It cannot avoid damage entirely there, so it has to tank dps. It has the slots & fitting for that, but not the cap. It needs a cap injector for that. With MWD, scram and web this leaves 1 slot for EW.
Without a MWD it is very vulnerable to bubblecamps, without a web any target with a web of its own and an AB or MWD will be able to get out of the pilgrims nos/neut range, so IMO it needs both.

Vs battleships it will run into problems, both tankwise - 1 TD will not prevent that much damage - and capwise. It has only a relatively small cargohold.
Vs BCs it will have serious tank problems, more than against BSs due to medium guns.
Which leaves..cruisers. However, a rapier with longrange webs and a damp setup is far better in disabeling these, has enough dps to break cruiser tanks, is faster, is betetr vs smaller tragets *and* is fairly useful in gangs.

The problems of the pilgrim are not caused by its fitting, they are caused by its short range concept.

Originally by: Jurgen Cartis

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He's wondering if it gets 11,000,000 Kg mass (-1,000,000 kg from current TQ mass) or 10,000,000 Kg (-2,000,000 kg). Needless to say, all the Deimos pilots are hoping for 10,000,000 Kg.

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11k on sisi. Very likely a typo in the dev blog.

Originally by: Izo Azlion

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The Damnations hold is nearly that of a Megathron. The Megathron is considerably more reliant on cap boosters.

---

Its the same with all t2 missile ships. Look at the cargohold of the nighthawk and cerb.

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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Quote:

---

# 5% bonus to armor resistances per BC level (no change)
# 10% bonus to armor hit points per CS level

---

wow... omg, talk about armor tanked.with ammar cap, and no cap being used on weapons, this is going to be one of the best commandships ever. wait a minute... are these changes coming before the allaince tourament? if so then I need to get into allaince chat! this cvhanges everything!

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Originally by: Khan Soriano

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You've pointed yourself that all cloaking recons (actually it applies to non-cloaking too) don't tank and operate from distance, supporting their gank by using their EW. Problem with Pilgrim is that it tries to hard on too many fronts. I'd very much like a complete redo of Pilgrim and how it operates (Curse is fine with its long range cap-depriving power).

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Originally by: Zaethiel

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Originally by: MotherMoon

---

Quote:

---

# 5% bonus to armor resistances per BC level (no change)
# 10% bonus to armor hit points per CS level

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wow... omg, talk about armor tanked.with ammar cap, and no cap being used on weapons, this is going to be one of the best commandships ever. wait a minute... are these changes coming before the allaince tourament? if so then I need to get into allaince chat! this cvhanges everything!

---

Those bonus' make it the lowest DPS CS there is. It'll definitely need 2-3 BCU and that will hurt the tank severely.

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Originally by: Riley Craven

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Edited by: Riley Craven on 21/08/2007 17:53:55
I'd like to specifically comment on the cargo size of the khanid ships.

In a way I have always felt that cargo sizes have been a bit silly. Why should amarr ships have the same cargo size as caldari ships when they dont have to hold any large amounts of ammo that we do. (mainly refering to BS)

Further the command ship SHOULD NOT have the same cargo room as a battleship... that is very skewed. All that will allow it to do is carry a crap load of cap boosters since medium missles arent even that heavy when compared to torps and cruise.

If anything if you are going to make those cargo room changes then you need to systematically nerf the cargo room in amarr ships to put them in line with what they need.

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.

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Originally by: Jim McGregor

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Does gallente have ANY bad ships left in their fleet? Just asking since they just boosted the only bad one I remember reading about.

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Quote:

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The Flycatcher is hard to fit and compared to the Heretic it falls a bit short, so the fitting as been improved to allow it to easier fit tech 2 Standard Missile Launchers:

* 265tf (+21tf)
* 56mw (+2mw)

---

Originally by: Jim McGregor

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Does gallente have ANY bad ships left in their fleet? Just asking since they just boosted the only bad one I remember reading about.

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Originally by: Izo Azlion

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So, come on, maybe he whines alot, but tbh... 600+ in something considerably smaller than a BS?

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Originally by: Jotan Veer

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Edited by: Jotan Veer on 21/08/2007 20:32:24

Quote:

---

The Flycatcher is hard to fit and compared to the Heretic it falls a bit short, so the fitting as been improved to allow it to easier fit tech 2 Standard Missile Launchers:

* 265tf (+21tf)
* 56mw (+2mw)

---

Unfortunately those numbers come short of the intended goal. Namely allowing the fitting of T2 Standard launchers WITH the essential modules on the boat.

There is a topic about it, please do read it:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=572072

The ship still needs either 15 more CPU or a bit more PG in order to become viable standard missile boat.

Please do reconsider the numbers. The goal is right, the implementation is not hitting the mark.

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Originally by: Moraguth

---

This comment illustrates perfectly something that's been bothering me lately. Many people seem to think that every ship (especially the one they fly) needs to be able to fit Every Module they want, Tech 2, with no sacrifice for PG or CPU modules or whatever.

I'm going to say it simply. No. If you want to fit a ship that well, with such awesome equipment, you have to have some sort of sacrifice. Either in lost slots (to boost your fitting capabilities) or in isk (to buy uber officer/whatever mods)

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Originally by: Khan Soriano

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Maybe some web invulnerability (in a reasonable way) so that it could operate inside webrange without having to tank so much? Circling around turret BS with TDs on sounds very cool and it still would be vulnerable to missiles.

.....

Or maybe we ditch TDs altogether and use some different thing or maybe boost NOS some more on it?? Right now only Amarr ships seriously feel the wrath of TD (where all ships feel the sensor damps more or less equally). Gallente laugh at it as their setups always have a web while using blasters, so optimal isnt a problem and less transversal for the attacker to actually shrug off some damage. Minmatar are susceptible to tracking problems (if their target isn't also webbed/inside webrange) but less optimal doesnt actually hurt them.

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Quote:

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The Flycatcher is hard to fit...

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Originally by: Chi Quan

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Quote:

---

The Flycatcher is hard to fit...

---

the powergrid upgrade was fine, but the Flycatcher already had the biggest CPU (fine, now it has a hardwired coprocessor).

have a look at the Eris while you are at it, you can't fit anything that needs marginal cpu on it.

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Originally by: Izo Azlion

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Originally by: Jim McGregor

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Does gallente have ANY bad ships left in their fleet? Just asking since they just boosted the only bad one I remember reading about.

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Ishtar :D

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Originally by: Espoir

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Nice work so far.

BUT I hope you fix the thing with the 2 scanning groups:
encounter (onboard scanner) <--> complexes (probing, explo)

PLEASE seperate them into 2 groups. ATM it simply worthless to scan for unknown sigs 'cause of the onboard results you always get into the results list.
thx

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Originally by: Harkarmin

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I read quite a few post and how come I dont see anyone who thinks Caldari ships are getting ignored? All this changes making Ammar have missle boats with better bonuses and tanks then Caldari? What are Caldari left with? They were the experts in missle ships and now they have nothing except the still nerfed ECMs and the Raven is still the only missle Battleship. But the Cerberus is trash when put side to side with a Sacralege. The Vulture vs the Damnation! The Flycatcher vs the Heritic! The Vengence vs the Hawk! ... I fail to see ballance I only see Caldari falling behind.

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Quote:

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I can fly the demios, i own a vigilant. Before this patch is released i'm selling my vigilant.

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Originally by: Miss Fiona

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Caldri is allready way overpowerd, they do not need to be turned into a even more I win eVE

they rock in PvE and Pvp Gangs, wich is mostly how eve is fought anyway.

you wont get a 1vs1 4km apart mega battel alot.

Caldri is alot more usefull, in every way of EvE

be it ratting, gang fights, or even solo 1vs1 work.
so people whom say Caldri needs a boost needs to check there fittings.

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Originally by: Feng Schui

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"Silly length post about powegrid on Pilgrim"

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Hmm...Perhaps you'd like enough grid to fit a Large booster and 1600mm plate too?

Originally by: CCP Fendahl

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Unfortunately, improving our physics engine - Destiny - requires resources we don't have for the foreseeable future...

---

Originally by: CCP Fendhal

---

Finally the cargo capacities on the Khanid ships have been increased (so they have room for missiles) and the number of turret hardpoints have been increased back to normal levels (to ease the transition for pilots who have no missile skills):

Malediction: 135m3 (no change), turrets: 3
Vengeance: 210m3 (+75m3), turrets: 3
Anathema: 190m3 (no change), turrets: 2
Heretic: 380m3 (+80m3), turrets: 4
Sacrilege: 615m3 (+165m3), turrets: 4
Damnation: 645m3 cargo (+295m3), turrets: 4

That's all for this round of balancing changes.

---

• a heavy missle has a volume of 0.03m¦

• a heavy assault missle has a vloume of 0.015m¦

• a medium sized hybrid charge has a volume of 0.025m¦

• the new damnation has a new cargohold of 645m¦

• a caldari vulture has a cargo hold of 700m¦

• both gallente command ships have a cargohold of 400m¦

Originally by: Vyktor Abyss

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c) The ship being useless after NOS changes... Melodramatic Rubbish. People will still fly this ship and commit it to battle and they will win, cap stable or not. They are probably just better pilots than you that can adapt to changes rather than spitting their dummies out in protest.

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Originally by: Perry

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300m¦ Dronebay dont come out of thin air...

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Originally by: Argentail

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How do you admit to and fix CPU on the Caldari Capitals and not do the same for the Matari ones?

Why are we forced to armor tank ( less slots ) if we want to remote shield rep ( 1/2 of our bonus )? Not to mention the Hel which for the investment must shield tank ala a Wyvern but now has 175 less CPU??

Any reasonable answer would be appreciated

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Originally by: Riley Craven

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Edited by: Riley Craven on 21/08/2007 17:53:55
I'd like to specifically comment on the cargo size of the khanid ships.

In a way I have always felt that cargo sizes have been a bit silly. Why should amarr ships have the same cargo size as caldari ships when they dont have to hold any large amounts of ammo that we do. (mainly refering to BS)

Further the command ship SHOULD NOT have the same cargo room as a battleship... that is very skewed. All that will allow it to do is carry a crap load of cap boosters since medium missles arent even that heavy when compared to torps and cruise.

If anything if you are going to make those cargo room changes then you need to systematically nerf the cargo room in amarr ships to put them in line with what they need.

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Originally by: Terror DeBiaN

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Are there any balancing changes being considered for the Eagle HAC?

Terror

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