...I think to continually say GÇ£everything is fine in FWGÇ¥ is to be out of touch with the community, and thatGÇÖs why IGÇÖve reacted to your comments. ...

Just to let you know, being a single voice for the community does not mean putting your opinion ahead of the community. Your ideas about changing FW missions (to prevent a bomber from doing a mission) is completely inaccurate with what the community has been saying.

As I said before

Be a voice for the community and talk about COMMON AGREEANCES. Plexing mechanics, sovereignty, etc.

When you advocate changes you advocate for changes that will move FW in the right direction not cause a split (which is what you are doing)

The community agrees 100% on two things

1) Plexes
2) Sovereignty control

Focus on those two, how about that. Leave missions alone for later.

If one sucks at PvP then perhaps signing on with a paramilitary force to wage a war was the wrong decision .. imagine how something like the US revolution would have panned out if 80%+ of the various state militias had said "I suck at the shooting bit, can't I have some corn to sow or some pigs to tend?"

I spent the first 2-3 months bleeding ships, 40-50 total I reckon. Before I signed on all I had to my name was blob kills from my life in null and zero PvP experience, I have since (last 2.5yrs) gotten 3k kills or so with about 10% of that in losses ..
If you deliberately suicide your ships ("fighting whatever the heck came my way") and don't practise with some focus ("flying different ships of all types") then it is no wonder that you don't feel like you got anywhere learning wise

It is a war of attrition between competing ideologies .. there is no innocence.

As for the 'community' not agreeing on missions being a bit a bit naff and the constant droning of cloaked bombers being annoying .. what game were you playing again?
There are of course nay-sayers, but on the whole they are few and far between since the farming alts don't post in the relevant threads (thank Goddess!).

I don't think you can address Plexes and Sov. without also taking the missions into consideration since missions are currently the primary source of reward in FW, and also are a key means of sustaining FW combat for many players. Ideally the goals of plexes, sov, and missions should be intertwined into a common theme for FW, with an underlying belief that rewards are tied to a pilots contribution to the war effort (ie. shooting eachother in the face).

Don't apologize. FW missions are still easy mode for 1/2way skilled toons to make isk in low sec with no danger. Low sec DED missions have more risk than FW missions. Even if someone sees the FW mission up in a system, the mission runner still can A) get out before the pirate/opposing FW guy gets there and kill him or B) move on to another mission when the pirate/opposing FW guy camps the warp in.

No risk low sec PVE is not how it's supposed to be. It goes agains what Low Sec is about!!! Risk/reward man!!!

lvl4 FW missions are as safe hi sec lvl 4 missions, pay better, and are done much quicker.





In low sec space.




THAT'S the problem I have. No increased risk for much more reward.

*edit* I guess this is where we will disagree. I won't change your mind, you won't change mine. Time to move on.....

lvl4 FW missions are as safe hi sec lvl 4 missions, pay better, and are done much quicker.





In low sec space.




THAT'S the problem I have. No increased risk for much more reward.

*edit* I guess this is where we will disagree. I won't change your mind, you won't change mine. Time to move on.....

lvl4 FW missions are as safe hi sec lvl 4 missions, pay better, and are done much quicker.

In low sec space.

THAT'S the problem I have. No increased risk for much more reward.

*edit* I guess this is where we will disagree. I won't change your mind, you won't change mine. Time to move on.....

YouGÇÖre absolutely right Bad Messenger. IGÇÖve let this get personal. My frustration is that IGÇÖve spent months now trying to coordinate the FW community into a single voice GÇô to avoid the amarr vs. minmatar, gallente vs. caldari grudges and trash talk (leave it on the server) so we can all work together to help CCP understand what the community wants fixed about the feature, so it becomes an active warzone again.

Don't apologize. FW missions are still easy mode for 1/2way skilled toons to make isk in low sec with no danger. Low sec DED missions have more risk than FW missions. Even if someone sees the FW mission up in a system, the mission runner still can A) get out before the pirate/opposing FW guy gets there and kill him or B) move on to another mission when the pirate/opposing FW guy camps the warp in.

No risk low sec PVE is not how it's supposed to be. It goes agains what Low Sec is about!!! Risk/reward man!!!

There is no absolute truth, ever.

You are not representing me or my opinions, you are just like Ankhesentapemkah. I've seen people like you before. you are not good for community and you are not representing majority of FW people.

I have as much right to say my opinions as anyone else, i have also right to comment what others post, that is called discussion. There is no absolute truth, ever.

The issue is that they can be, and are farmed by people who contribute nothing to FW as a whole.

This.

So, how do you make something rewarding that is tied to PVP, not PVE? Because if it is PVE it will be farmed by those who do not contribute to FW as a whole. And it needs a reward to encourage people to do it, and to finance the losses.

If the rewards at tied to pure PVP - just shooting people - it is easy to exploit. You just create an account in the opposing militia and shoot them over and over. So the reward cannot be linked to that.

So the question is, how do you create a system that is not easy to exploit, has ISK rewards, and contributes to FW?

I'm not saying this is good or bad, but it just seems to be a fact. The cry to "fix fw" seems to be a bit quieter than it was. I would say the cry to "fix faction war" has been downgraded to a cry to "iterate on fw." There are at least 2 good reasons for this: 1) CCP has made good changes to fw. 2) Players read some of what ccp had planned to "fix fw" and gained some perspective on how bad it could be.

This.

So, how do you make something rewarding that is tied to PVP, not PVE? Because if it is PVE it will be farmed by those who do not contribute to FW as a whole. And it needs a reward to encourage people to do it, and to finance the losses.

If the rewards at tied to pure PVP - just shooting people - it is easy to exploit. You just create an account in the opposing militia and shoot them over and over. So the reward cannot be linked to that.

So the question is, how do you create a system that is not easy to exploit, has ISK rewards, and contributes to FW?

I've never understood this argument. There has to be a happy medium between making it akin to the insurance scams of old, and where it is now, which is basically worthless LP payouts for killing WTs. Surely we can find a payout that is good enough for people who kill ships, but doesn't make getting an alt in a ship blown up over and over again to magically generate isk. We could eschew LP altogether and make it a straight up isk bounty, like capturing ships in the 18th Century. Lets say you get half the hull value of the ship you kill in isk, everytime you kill one. Maybe split that between all involved parties, or not. There's lots of ways to combat alt scamming.

As for me I am not even claiming to express the views of current fw participants. I am posting views of what would make fw worth doing, *for me.* I think that is fine, and likely what ccp wants to hear.

[quote=Cearain]
If we can hold off the animosity for long enough to deliver the unified message that we are NOT in Faction Warfare to be farmed up to 0.0 and that we are here for small-scale, frequent PvP - than we have achieved a real victory worth celebrating.

How do you propose we deliver said message?

(By the way, there's a handful of (ex)fw people here who will continue animosity no matter what, learn who they are and ignore them and these threads will go a lot smoother).

(By the way, there's a handful of (ex)fw people here who will continue animosity no matter what, learn who they are and ignore them and these threads will go a lot smoother).

And a r..ard whose corp members (with his own approval) are part of evemail spamming, convoing hostile FC's durng fights and other welll documented shenigans once again attempts to play "All Gallente players are totally cool and mature" card...

Wait. We have been approved for shenanigans? When was there approval for shenanigans?

HOW DID I MISS APPROVAL FOR SHENANIGANS?!?!

I knew there was something wrong with this lousy excuse for a corp.