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Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
87
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 16:24:00 -
[61] - Quote
Kagan Storm wrote:i tought militia are random people that run around with guns and then go home and farm cattle..... Not a normal army....
So electing anything would be pointles. You have ceos of corporations that fight in militia warerafe.... you have individuals... if i have a 5 man fleat and you are solo you are gonna join my 5 man fleat and be quiet....
Seriously who the hell talks at those meetings? Somebodey with a serious OCD i can see... they wanna make a complex thing out of mining veldspar....
FW is fine... Works as intended.... you run around shoot crap... get LPs.... go home.... Now if somebodey wants to be a great military general who wants to build and organize stuff.... you have 2500 0.0 systems and 2500 WHole systems..... have fun there....
yup confirming we are band of cyberrednecks ...
... sometimes we see real null armies rolling over our corn fields and kill our cows ... and sometimes our cows bite their heads off .... bad moos, very bad moos ...
omg ... IBS recruiting >>> http://ingloriousbs.wordpress.com -á>>> questionable ethics >>> tears >>> happy snakes>>>frog cocktails free>>>free ****>>>????
Public ch.: Basterds on vacation-á |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
94
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 16:25:00 -
[62] - Quote
Silence iKillYouu wrote:Ive been in FW for 3 years or more. Any change will be good.
At the moment FW is gang green and needs to be cut of or have radical surgery.
All month logging in to empty FW systems and not much happening in channels.
You have not been logging in (that ive seen at all) and there has been action, alot of action recently and certinly many kills for all sides.
You are talking out of your bottom, sir. |
Maz3r Rakum
The Imperial Fedaykin
10
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 16:25:00 -
[63] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:For solo mediums use a Caracal and just pilot well and they will never even hit you never mind break you. Also Battleships can't enter majors. Unrestricted yes, Majors no.
The current plex system has indeed increased the number of small scale pvp, it honestly just needs two tweaks.
1 - A reward.
2 - Spawns, Allowing a cloaked ship to delay the repawn by remaining in the plex is stupid. It would also be nice if no repawns took place until the minor, medium AND major have been taken. As often wts will just bail and reship for smaller ships if the numbers are not to their liking. Requiring all three are taking before a respawn forces the issue and drives everyone to the fight.
This. Exactly this. At least with the current mechanics the pvp adverse bears stay out of the plexes
One more thing to fix FW. Make it worth actually holding sov. Like reducing fuel consumption for POS, or increasing/reducing LP payout for FW agents. I'm sure there are 100 better ideas posted in the 100 other fix FW threads.
tl;dr CCP PLEASE listen to the people who actually play FW, instead of the nullbears.
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Maz3r Rakum
The Imperial Fedaykin
10
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 16:26:00 -
[64] - Quote
Silence iKillYouu wrote:Ive been in FW for 3 years or more. Any change will be good.
At the moment FW is gang green and needs to be cut of or have radical surgery.
All month logging in to empty FW systems and not much happening in channels.
gf |
March rabbit
Ganse Shadow of xXDEATHXx
111
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 16:31:00 -
[65] - Quote
Maz3r Rakum wrote:Make it worth actually holding sov. agree. this is the thing prevented me from trying FW at all. Why war if you get nothing?
i see what 0.0-sov alliances fight for. However i don't see any reasons to fight outside sov-space... Except fun. And fun disappears once you get used to it.
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Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
129
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 16:31:00 -
[66] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Please give the fit of the caracal that tanks the minmatar rats *very very easilly* even when you are in range of the button.
High: 5 x aml Mid: 2 x regolith LSE, 1 x invul hydrocarbon mwd, long point low: 2 x bcu rig: 3 x cde (or 2 x cde and anti-em)
mwd to point, pop the rats while flying and orbit at capture range. Keep orbiting and pop the rats as they come. This works even for harder mediums (= non-outposts) without any issues. Initial spawn in harder mediums might put your shields to relatively low but by the time next spawn comes you have recharged pretty well and they will start at long range anyway and do miserable dps. If you are in no rush to button, you can of course snipe the rats at range but it's not really needed.
Minmatar outposts are not even an issue. Initial spawn is three frigs (one volley pops) and one cruiser. Following spawns composed of mainly the weakest of cruiser hulls available. As for minors, pvp arty thrasher handles any easily enough by one volleying any rat (elite frigate aside in minor strongholds) while sitting on timer and running it down constantly.
Do note that caracal above has 6k more tank than usual shield rupture fits I see around (= lse II, 2 cde, anti-em rig and dc).
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Capitol One
Wolfsbrigade
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 16:47:00 -
[67] - Quote
Maybe the CSM could have a chat with a couple of representatives from each faction to hear their thoughts on FW and what might be good fixes, and then bring those ideas to CCP
And then it would be super if CCP would talk to the FW community (dev blogs/something) before deciding on anything and to get some feedback on whether their ideas are awesome or terrible.
Because it seems to me that simply trusting the CSM/CCP to make up their own version of what is best for FW isn't really a good idea, since neither seem to have full grasp of what we, FW players, want.
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Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
87
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 16:51:00 -
[68] - Quote
Damar Rocarion wrote:Cearain wrote:Please give the fit of the caracal that tanks the minmatar rats *very very easilly* even when you are in range of the button. High: 5 x aml Mid: 2 x regolith LSE, 1 x invul hydrocarbon mwd, long point low: 2 x bcu rig: 3 x cde (or 2 x cde and anti-em) mwd to point, pop the rats while flying and orbit at capture range. Keep orbiting and pop the rats as they come. This works even for harder mediums (= non-outposts) without any issues. Initial spawn in harder mediums might put your shields to relatively low but by the time next spawn comes you have recharged pretty well and they will start at long range anyway and do miserable dps. If you are in no rush to button, you can of course snipe the rats at range but it's not really needed. Minmatar outposts are not even an issue. Initial spawn is three frigs (one volley pops) and one cruiser. Following spawns composed of mainly the weakest of cruiser hulls available. As for minors, pvp arty thrasher handles any easily enough by one volleying any rat (elite frigate aside in minor strongholds) while sitting on timer and running it down constantly. Do note that caracal above has 6k more tank than usual shield rupture fits I see around (= lse II, 2 cde, anti-em rig and dc).
this
IBS recruiting >>> http://ingloriousbs.wordpress.com -á>>> questionable ethics >>> tears >>> happy snakes>>>frog cocktails free>>>free ****>>>????
Public ch.: Basterds on vacation-á |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
225
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 16:53:00 -
[69] - Quote
Damar Rocarion wrote:Cearain wrote:Please give the fit of the caracal that tanks the minmatar rats *very very easilly* even when you are in range of the button. High: 5 x aml Mid: 2 x regolith LSE, 1 x invul hydrocarbon mwd, long point low: 2 x bcu rig: 3 x cde (or 2 x cde and anti-em) mwd to point, pop the rats while flying and orbit at capture range. Keep orbiting and pop the rats as they come. This works even for harder mediums (= non-outposts) without any issues. Initial spawn in harder mediums might put your shields to relatively low but by the time next spawn comes you have recharged pretty well and they will start at long range anyway and do miserable dps. If you are in no rush to button, you can of course snipe the rats at range but it's not really needed. Minmatar outposts are not even an issue. Initial spawn is three frigs (one volley pops) and one cruiser. Following spawns composed of mainly the weakest of cruiser hulls available. As for minors, pvp arty thrasher handles any easily enough by one volleying any rat (elite frigate aside in minor strongholds) while sitting on timer and running it down constantly. Do note that caracal above has 6k more tank than usual shield rupture fits I see around (= lse II, 2 cde, anti-em rig and dc).
I respect that you can pvp in that ship. I really do.
I would never choose that ship for pvp.
I'm not aware of many that would. If I wanted to kill frigates I would put a web or 2 on there. If I was flying that and saw a typical pvp cruiser like a rupture thorax or vexor I would likely not stick around.
I guess my point is that plexing suffers because few people want to pvp in such fits. Yet due to rats those are the fits that make the most sense.
We can argue about whether people "should" want to pvp in these sorts of fits but plexes have existed in pretty much the same state they are now for 3 years. These caracals could always be used and they just haven't caught on.
The after downtime spawn change was nice and I am glad it has spurred some interest in plexing. But if the plex war becomes a priority again - like it was when fw came out and like it should be - then we will find the same old "plex and warp out if wts come" tactics are the most efficient way to plex.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Deen Wispa
Screaming War Eagles Incorporated
77
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 17:01:00 -
[70] - Quote
Capitol One wrote:Maybe the CSM could have a chat with a couple of representatives from each faction to hear their thoughts on FW and what might be good fixes, and then bring those ideas to CCP
And then it would be super if CCP would talk to the FW community (dev blogs/something) before deciding on anything and to get some feedback on whether their ideas are awesome or terrible.
Because it seems to me that simply trusting the CSM/CCP to make up their own version of what is best for FW isn't really a good idea, since neither seem to have full grasp of what we, FW players, want.
I get the feeling that Hans Jaeggerblitzen (sp?) from Autoncannons Annonymous might be running for CSM. He seems like a good communicator and patient enough to act as a liason b/w FW folks and CCP. Rather or not he can get things done and not succumb to manipulation by Nullsec CSM is another issue. . |
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
225
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 17:01:00 -
[71] - Quote
Hidden Snake wrote:Damar Rocarion wrote:Cearain wrote:Please give the fit of the caracal that tanks the minmatar rats *very very easilly* even when you are in range of the button. High: 5 x aml Mid: 2 x regolith LSE, 1 x invul hydrocarbon mwd, long point low: 2 x bcu rig: 3 x cde (or 2 x cde and anti-em) mwd to point, pop the rats while flying and orbit at capture range. Keep orbiting and pop the rats as they come. This works even for harder mediums (= non-outposts) without any issues. Initial spawn in harder mediums might put your shields to relatively low but by the time next spawn comes you have recharged pretty well and they will start at long range anyway and do miserable dps. If you are in no rush to button, you can of course snipe the rats at range but it's not really needed. Minmatar outposts are not even an issue. Initial spawn is three frigs (one volley pops) and one cruiser. Following spawns composed of mainly the weakest of cruiser hulls available. As for minors, pvp arty thrasher handles any easily enough by one volleying any rat (elite frigate aside in minor strongholds) while sitting on timer and running it down constantly. Do note that caracal above has 6k more tank than usual shield rupture fits I see around (= lse II, 2 cde, anti-em rig and dc). this
Do you see that fit on any decent pvp corps killboard other than fw corps? Thats my point you need to fly these oddball fits to accomadate the rats.
Right off the bat you are hamstrung in what you can fly in plexes. People who say the rats have no effect haven't done plexes at least not for amarr militia.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
256
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 17:10:00 -
[72] - Quote
The Assault Caracal (AC) has nothing to do with the rats, you are probably better of using heavies if that is the focus. The AC became 'popular' after faction frigs were buffed, which as you know came after the speed re-balance so we were suddenly seeing tons of ab frigs running around killing anything with traditional cruiser weaponry. AC has more than enough range and still manage to pull off damage equal to gun cruisers if said cruisers were to field a similar level of tank ..
In short: Don't knock the Assault Caracal! |
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
129
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 17:11:00 -
[73] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Do you see that fit on any decent pvp corps killboard other than fw corps? Thats my point you need to fly these oddball fits to accomadate the rats.
I hardly call mainly anti-frig caracal an odd-ball fit. Pirates and 0.0 blobs of course dont fly one since it's not particularly good at gate camping or in big-ass structure grinds but in FW there are actually lot of frigs, dessies and 2nd line cruisers like stabbers around to kill.
Of course, while ago I took on keres, thorax and ishkur with that caracal. Ishkur managed to flee, rest of them died. So I quess good pilot can compensate for it's lack of hitting power
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Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
88
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 17:22:00 -
[74] - Quote
Damar Rocarion wrote:So I quess good pilot can compensate for it's lack of hitting power
I allways say stop clicking start piloting .... that is why learning to fly frig is good for BS pilot later.
IBS recruiting >>> http://ingloriousbs.wordpress.com -á>>> questionable ethics >>> tears >>> happy snakes>>>frog cocktails free>>>free ****>>>????
Public ch.: Basterds on vacation-á |
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs Fatal Ascension
5
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 17:24:00 -
[75] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:Pulgy wrote:I hope CCP realizes a lot of us joined FW to avoid/escape null sec stupidity...but then again this is CCP we're talking about. Well, given how much manipulation that Nullsec CSM intends to do when they hold power again for this upcoming election, I wouldn't be surprised if FW and non-nullsec space is screwed over for good. From Mitten's speech on Branch;Quote:The parentheticals demonstrate the rule GÇô the CSM can wield a frightening level of influence if someone of sound mind and a knack for political manipulation is in charge. The experience of the previous CSM demonstrated to everyone in nullsec the galaxy-destroying risk of locking random ignoramuses in a conference room with CCP Greyscale.
So: we are approaching Election Season once more. Last year we GÇô along with other like-minded members of nullsec GÇô swept the election and helped remake EVE into a spaceship game. There will be many more votes this time around, as CSM6 raised the stakes for the entire game. I will once again be running for the Chairmanship, and we will be fully mobilizing to ensure that the voice of ~the people~ (ie, our people, and everyone of like mind to us) is heard. This will be a high-stakes election, not merely because of the power we have created within the CSM, but because after blowing up thousands of miserable Empire barges, I suspect the pubbies donGÇÖt like us much! Given the size of GSF now versus last year, it is safe to say that this will be another Nullsec CSM only interested in their own agenda and no one else. Makes me happy that GSF are our allies :) |
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
118
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 17:53:00 -
[76] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Hidden Snake wrote:Damar Rocarion wrote:Cearain wrote:Please give the fit of the caracal that tanks the minmatar rats *very very easilly* even when you are in range of the button. High: 5 x aml Mid: 2 x regolith LSE, 1 x invul hydrocarbon mwd, long point low: 2 x bcu rig: 3 x cde (or 2 x cde and anti-em) mwd to point, pop the rats while flying and orbit at capture range. Keep orbiting and pop the rats as they come. This works even for harder mediums (= non-outposts) without any issues. Initial spawn in harder mediums might put your shields to relatively low but by the time next spawn comes you have recharged pretty well and they will start at long range anyway and do miserable dps. If you are in no rush to button, you can of course snipe the rats at range but it's not really needed. Minmatar outposts are not even an issue. Initial spawn is three frigs (one volley pops) and one cruiser. Following spawns composed of mainly the weakest of cruiser hulls available. As for minors, pvp arty thrasher handles any easily enough by one volleying any rat (elite frigate aside in minor strongholds) while sitting on timer and running it down constantly. Do note that caracal above has 6k more tank than usual shield rupture fits I see around (= lse II, 2 cde, anti-em rig and dc). this Do you see that fit on any decent pvp corps killboard other than fw corps? Thats my point. You need to fly these oddball fits to accomadate the rats. Right off the bat you are hamstrung in what you can fly in plexes. People who say the rats have no effect haven't done plexes at least not for amarr militia.
What works in Null doesn't often work in FW.
Adapt to your surroundings, aimlessly flying a fit from the KB and then wondering why it isn't working for you isn't good piloting. Flying an "ODDBALL" fit that gets kills... well if you need me to say.
Also Don't fly shield ruppies, my god such a waste of a ship. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
225
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 18:11:00 -
[77] - Quote
Hirana Yoshida wrote:The Assault Caracal (AC) has nothing to do with the rats, you are probably better of using heavies if that is the focus. The AC became 'popular' after faction frigs were buffed, which as you know came after the speed re-balance so we were suddenly seeing tons of ab frigs running around killing anything with traditional cruiser weaponry. AC has more than enough range and still manage to pull off damage equal to gun cruisers if said cruisers were to field a similar level of tank ..
In short: Don't knock the Assault Caracal!
Ok I'm not knocking the fit. You can kite other cruisers in it and take out smaller ships. I have no issue with that. I may actually get a few to plex in.
As to whether its an oddball fit. Well we can look at killboards of good non-fw pvp corps and reach our own conclusions whether its odd or common.
But it's one fit.
My point remains that several other more typical types of pvp cruisers(ruptures thoraxs and vexors) are not viable due to rats. Caracal and other missile based ships are going to be king of plexing because they can also pve.
I know damarr has said that plexing is now basically fixed after the downtime spawn mechanic changed. I disagree.
Maybe some others now think its fixed so long as they give more rewards than the tags we already get. I would just ask how much more?
I think they need to do more changes to plexes and not just add more rewards. I think plexing needed fixing before the crucible changes and it still needs some fixing. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Super Chair
Project Cerberus
116
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 18:12:00 -
[78] - Quote
I'm not sure if CCP even enters the warfare and tactics forum unless a GM or Dev gets a petition about an offensive post or something. Anyhow, I cross linked this thread to eve general discussion.
Voice your opinions, protest, shoot a statue, keep posting on any FW thread. Maybe CCP will listen... |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
225
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 18:53:00 -
[79] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote: What works in Null doesn't often work in FW.
Adapt to your surroundings, aimlessly flying a fit from the KB and then wondering why it isn't working for you isn't good piloting. Flying an "ODDBALL" fit that gets kills... well if you need me to say.
Also Don't fly shield ruppies, my god such a waste of a ship.
Right adapt to your surroundings.
If ccp continues to spam npcs in plexes you will need to adapt your fit for pve.
That is my point.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Mystical Might
The Imperial Fedaykin
72
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 18:59:00 -
[80] - Quote
Cearain wrote:sYnc Vir wrote: What works in Null doesn't often work in FW.
Adapt to your surroundings, aimlessly flying a fit from the KB and then wondering why it isn't working for you isn't good piloting. Flying an "ODDBALL" fit that gets kills... well if you need me to say.
Also Don't fly shield ruppies, my god such a waste of a ship.
Right adapt to your surroundings. If ccp continues to spam npcs in plexes you will need to adapt your fit for pve. That is my point.
I run the plexes in my daredevil and cynabal. Sometimes my TenGuuu If I'm bored. Don't rule the slicer out either.
Feel free to guess whether they're PvP or PvE fit. I'll even give ya a little hint; They all have points, and some have webs.
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Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
129
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 19:11:00 -
[81] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Right adapt to your surroundings.
If ccp continues to spam npcs in plexes you will need to adapt your fit for pve.
That is my point.
I really dont get this argument, I really dont. I plex and mission in pvp boats (yes, drakes, caracals and gilas are that good. Shocking!) and I rarely, if ever, have trouble in either. Ok, "Halt the invasion" tends to be a bit hefty job for a drake but gila can manage it. I still prefer not to do it since chewing through the bloody gate takes ages
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Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate
6
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 19:25:00 -
[82] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:miners can't avoid pvp and just play their "end game". why should FW people be allowed to play their "end game" and avoid other parts of a game?
We shouldn't be. However, it shouldn't be trivial to do so. When Goons where ganking barges, it took considerable effort, planning, and logistics on their part to do so. A lot of what CCP is suggesting would be the equivalent of CCP adding the following buttons for goons to press "Board new fully fit, ready to fly gank boat" and "Teleport me in my ship to 15km off the nearest barge in an ice belt". |
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
22
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 19:30:00 -
[83] - Quote
Why is CCP hellbent on taking over the sandbox? Why cant we have one area of the game where we aren't subjected to the whim of large alliances?? Why are they dead set on on introducing metagaming ( more than it currently exixts ) into FW??? Why is the playerbase being foreced to plat a playstyle they dont want to? why cant they just enjoy their subscription money and let us play our game? Do they really think anyone in FW wants these changes?
The next thing that will evolve after this is block standings exceptions, or changes to standing mechanics will be made so alliances joining FW dont have to adhere to current standings standards for joining or staying in FW( after all that would be "unfair" to long time alliance members).Sounds like a nice opportunity to Nex to sell standings.Changes to standing mechanics are coming for sure.I think its BS that they dont make sysems conquerable to FW unless and until they admit alliances. we wanted it all along, have been waiting for it but no, they wont implemet it until they have the mechanics set up for alliances to co-opt FW.
The change after that will be the dissolution of state pro.You will be forced to join an alliance or if we are lucky, only a corp to get the advantages of being in militia under the new mechanics system. it's nothing but an opportunity tro forve low sec to be like null sec.will members of stae pro be able to be taxed for using stations owned by FW alliances? We can kiss our small gang warfare goodbye and have the snoozefest that is 0,0 warfare forced upon us.Now you will be forced to fly int fleets, insted of having opportunities to fly solo or in small or medium gangs, cause if yyou attempt it it will be blobbed.
And elections? Alliances will just come in, with their alt buddies as well and take the elections.Has CCP ever even talked to long time FW pilots, and asked them why they are in FW for years and not 0.0??? it was to get away from the politics and metagaming and snoozefest fleets in the first place.I guess the CSM and hans ( master of theory crafting as opposed to actual combat heavy experience in FW) are dictating the changes. they want FW as nothing more than a testbed for 0.0
It is clear CCP has not learned it's lessons about the players controlling the sandbox, and are poised to repeat their past mistakes, ready once again to impose their playstyle on us whether we like it or not.
As an aside I find it amusing that as CCP focuses on "War" they increasingly turn this into a political and metagame. Why is CCP so goddamn sure that metagaming ,spying, and manipulation is what the majority of eve players want?? it isnt, but the people who have the ear of CCP are those type of people, the ones who have bothered to manipulate themselves into that political systrem. They should call this expansion " Politics" not "War".
What amuses me most is that CCP in actuality has no understanding of war.I dont there are few if any with a background in anythign vaguely related to military science or the military arts employed by CCP.I started to play Eve as a crossover from a hard core group of guys from a Mil sim community ( real mil sims) and what appealed to me and the others was the fact that eve as a game as it existed at that time effectively capture maney of the real worl elements of warfare, even if it failed miserably as any kind of sim itself. Command and control issues, Friction, Mass, maneuver Tempo, Morale, Supply and logistics ( real logisitcs, not logi ships) ijtitative, were all part of the game. Now they want to turn the entire game into the trench warfare stagnation of WWI that has afflicted and killed null, that, and the metagaming.
People join FW for solo, small and med fleet size fights, as it's the only place left we can get them. Instead of rewarding those who stuck with FW for years by giving us something to fight for, they now plan to do what they always do, giving yet another piece of the pie to alliances in the vain hope that by literally FORCING people to join allainces ( which is why they want to eventually include high sec) it will solve the problems they have with nullsec and impose their idea of what they think the sandbox we play in should look like.
All they will do is spread their flawed model throughout the game,like a cancer, leaving nowhere for longtime hardcore warriors like me no choice but to move on in the hopes of finding another game, or sim, that captures the real mechanics of warfare as Eve once did long ago.
If you are gonna impose these godaful changes on us 1) DON'T soften the standings requirements, now, or in the future and DON'T sell standings in any size way shape or form.
2) DON'T apply dif rules as far as benifits go as per stations and hubs for guys in state pro or non alliance FW corp that are in FW. We SERVE THE STATE. Make allainces that join FW do the same and make the benifits the same for all, be they state pro, in a lone corp, or in an alliance. If they want to risk their assets to gain control and benifits, extend them the same way militia wide.Otherwise we have no hope of not simply being co-opted by larger alliances.
3) DO NOT hold elections forcing us to wage war along the guideleines of 0.0.we joined to get away from that, and it;s politics. I cant tell you how many pilots have left FW and returned because of the fact that they hate the politics, metagaming and snoozefest fleets that nullsec is now. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
226
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 19:31:00 -
[84] - Quote
Damar Rocarion wrote:Cearain wrote:Right adapt to your surroundings.
If ccp continues to spam npcs in plexes you will need to adapt your fit for pve.
That is my point. I really dont get this argument, I really dont. I plex and mission in pvp boats (yes, drakes, caracals and gilas are that good. Shocking!) and I rarely, if ever, have trouble in either. Ok, "Halt the invasion" tends to be a bit hefty job for a drake but gila can manage it. I still prefer not to do it since chewing through the bloody gate takes ages
If your doing level 4 amarr missions in a pvp drake you are just better at pve than I am. I can do missions in a drake but its pve fit.
Do you do level 4 fw missions for amarr in a pvp drake? What is the fit if you don't mind my asking. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Capitol One
Wolfsbrigade
4
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Posted - 2012.01.18 19:38:00 -
[85] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Damar Rocarion wrote:Cearain wrote:Right adapt to your surroundings.
If ccp continues to spam npcs in plexes you will need to adapt your fit for pve.
That is my point. I really dont get this argument, I really dont. I plex and mission in pvp boats (yes, drakes, caracals and gilas are that good. Shocking!) and I rarely, if ever, have trouble in either. Ok, "Halt the invasion" tends to be a bit hefty job for a drake but gila can manage it. I still prefer not to do it since chewing through the bloody gate takes ages If your doing level 4 amarr missions in a pvp drake you are just better at pve than I am. I can do missions in a drake but its pve fit. Do you do level 4 fw missions for amarr in a pvp drake? What is the fit if you don't mind my asking.
Yes, it's possible to pve in a pvp ship, send me a mail if you would like to get details on the fit/tactics.
Please let's stop derailing the thread with fitting/missioning discussion and focus on what this thread is about :)
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Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
22
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Posted - 2012.01.18 19:58:00 -
[86] - Quote
Let me say something to CCP about "War". There is not an original strategic or tactical thinker among you. Many of the changes to actual tactics in eve came from FW. When I joined eve and asked what a Stealth bomber was good for I was told nothing.by everyone. For over a year before I joined FW.
We in cal milita faced a particular tactical situation and came up with the idea of using an unused neglected and ignored ship to change the tide of war, and started fielding large SB gangs in FW.We used not only the ships itself, but a set of tactics with it. We were so effective and the gallente cried and wailed so much that CCP tried to nerf SBs and take away the cruise missile weapon so that the gallente could "get at us".They gave us torps instead, and we adapted yet again.This was not a ship that was inherently poweful, or the flavor of the day because of some patch.It was an evolution in actual tactics driven by men who responded creatively by using the available means they had, and tactics to compenstae with the shortcomings in the weapons platform itself to go along with it.
Another ship that was laughed at was the drake. The drake is now a dominat ship. The changes that occurred to the Drake was they dropped it's inherent shield resists, lowered it's recharge rate and increased ecplosion radius and decreased missile explosion velocity. All the while as this ship, which noone flew except missions runners years ago, Cal militia bagan to form fleets around it, not because ot was an inherently strong ship, but it was the only ship that had ANY staying power on the battlefield against guns and lasers and blaster BS. our own caldari BS could not match up against megas and geddons and tempest, maelstroms and hyperions .What we needed was ahiop that had soem staying power. then at least we could prolong the engagement long enough so that , with additional tactical changes we migth be able to effect the outcome.we learned to use the new torp DPS to augment the pitiful DPS of the drake, We learned to use the unwashed masses in T1 caldari frigs and cruisers to attack and at least drive off the Gallente fleet support.we would still lsoe the engagement, but learned that we could win the ISK war, in a prolonged war of attrition such as this was.
These events were not flukes. They were planned. They were evolutions in warfare. In 0.0 you see nothing but those who quickly identify the flavor of the day after the next new patch is released and then everyone flies them like so many lemmings.There is no maneuver warfare there. There are no tactical innovations. You are told what to fly, what to bring, and if not you are out in the cold. There is no innovation as there has been in FW, not on a comparable scale.
Not so long ago numbers were released indicating that FW pilots had the largest kill ratios, better than 0.0 pilots. there is a reason for this. Did ccp ever stop and reflect on that?And why that was the case. ?? Because there has been room for growth and independent tactical thought and development in FW.Because we have been handicapped, and forced to adapt, It is second nature to us and part of FW subculture.We think quicker and adapt because we have had to. I am not saying we are a better cut of pilot by nature, but rather that the nature of FW has forced us to be better pilots. Many times we have seen 0,0 corps come intio FW even BoB corps, only to leave after a few weeks or months of getting their asses handed to them by "scru"b FW pilots, complaining they cant cope with no bubbles, or gate mechanics, and unable to effectively mold the ad-hoc pell mell nature of FW ships into their standards, and they leave frustrated. We in FW have learned that a real FC does what any real life commander does, and that is make an assesment of his available means and then task his personell accordingly.0.0 pilots largely want to impose their monolithic template of combat on FW and when they cant they pick up their marbles and go home.
In Short, CCPs proposed changes will destroy any semblance EvE has left of a true wargame, and furthermore, they have not learned their lessons of the Jita riots and Incarna patch, and are poised to make the same mistakes. I tell you sirs, I will not continue to play this game if CCP contiunes to try and force everyone into their playstyle.If we wanted metagames and snoozefest blobs we would be in 0.0.
I cant help but wonder if all of this is not part of an overall strategy for CCP to lay the grounwork that they feel is necessary in game for their next project, DUST, to flourish in.If so, then they truly have not learned the lessons of Jitas Hot summer..... |
Desra Mascani
Eleutherian Guard
1
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Posted - 2012.01.18 19:59:00 -
[87] - Quote
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote: ... .
Are you serious? Who's going to read all that? I got in to about a third and then almost fell asleep, right where you start indirectly bragging about your "knowledge of warfare". Yes, that is snoozefest right there in your post.
And so we're clear, I don't like that new CCP bullshit either. I second the idea, that VPs need some rewards and taking systems needs some meaning. Other than that, I think that the FW mechanics works quite fine as opposed to the horrors that could happen.
EDIT: Ant there is your second post, where the first sentence is enough. You should seriously think about yourself. This is a game forum, not a lecture hall. And we play a MMORPG game, not some meticulously designed warfare simulator. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
226
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Posted - 2012.01.18 20:07:00 -
[88] - Quote
Capitol One wrote:Cearain wrote:Damar Rocarion wrote:Cearain wrote:Right adapt to your surroundings.
If ccp continues to spam npcs in plexes you will need to adapt your fit for pve.
That is my point. I really dont get this argument, I really dont. I plex and mission in pvp boats (yes, drakes, caracals and gilas are that good. Shocking!) and I rarely, if ever, have trouble in either. Ok, "Halt the invasion" tends to be a bit hefty job for a drake but gila can manage it. I still prefer not to do it since chewing through the bloody gate takes ages If your doing level 4 amarr missions in a pvp drake you are just better at pve than I am. I can do missions in a drake but its pve fit. Do you do level 4 fw missions for amarr in a pvp drake? What is the fit if you don't mind my asking. Yes, it's possible to pve in a pvp ship, send me a mail if you would like to get details on the fit/tactics. Please let's stop derailing the thread with fitting/missioning discussion and focus on what this thread is about :)
This thread is about csm minutes that make vague references to fw but really tell us very little other than that CCP fails to realize what needs to be fixed in fw. They are obviously just flailing around.
Directing them to what needs to be fixed is a legitimate topic for this thread.
IMO Occupancy plexing is broken because it is more about pve than pvp. Until they make occupancy plexing about pvp they will *never* fix fw. Theres nothing wrong with discussing/debating that claim in this thread.
BTW: Do you have anything to offer in this thread other than a whine? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Deen Wispa
Screaming War Eagles Incorporated
78
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Posted - 2012.01.18 20:13:00 -
[89] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:miners can't avoid pvp and just play their "end game". why should FW people be allowed to play their "end game" and avoid other parts of a game?
Why don't you just come out and say 'nullsec' is the end game for everyone while you're at it? The way you phrase the question already shows what preference you wish to impose on everyone . |
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
24
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Posted - 2012.01.18 20:28:00 -
[90] - Quote
Desra Mascani wrote:Tanaka Sekigahara wrote: ... . Are you serious? Who's going to read all that? I got in to about a third and then almost fell asleep, right where you start indirectly bragging about your "knowledge of warfare". Yes, that is snoozefest right there in your post. And so we're clear, I don't like that new CCP bullshit either. I second the idea, that VPs need some rewards and taking systems needs some meaning. Other than that, I think that the FW mechanics works quite fine as opposed to the horrors that could happen. EDIT: And there is your second post, where the first sentence is enough. You should seriously think about yourself. This is a game forum, not a lecture hall. And we play a MMORPG game, not some meticulously designed warfare simulator based on someone's delusions of grandeur.
You play your game how you want, and I will play my game how I want, When you pay my subscription, then you can tell me how to play, or how to express what I have learned, or how I want to see EVE develop . Not everyone here is a pubescent nerd.
Is it the idea that EvE cant be played as a wargame that motivates your comments? or is it that it can be, and you are just certain that of 250,000 plus subscriptions that none of them do, or is it that you just dont like it being discussed. Or maybe you think there are people who play as wargamers, but they cant possibly be anyone posting in this thread?
Or are you just insecure?Just because someone thinks they know what they are talking about doesn't mean they don't dude. Maybe read the thread next time before you Comment.
I also said " Cal militia" ,not "me", when talking about what has been done.
I didn't say what I was. I said what CCP wasn't. |
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