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Skraeling Shortbus
Caldari
Gallente Federal Bank
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Posted - 2007.09.11 04:43:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Draekas Darkwater
If I had to make a total guess about how the drones will work it would be this.
Drones will take different amounts of bandwidth to control at once, and each ship will have a maximum bandwith. 5 drones out at once will still be the max.
Small drones will take up 1 bandwidth, meds 3, and heavies 5. The new drones might have better stats, but use more bandwidth each than the regular ones we have currently. Not sure if Tech 2 will cost more bandwidth than tech 1s.
Example ships. Drake and Domi.
The Drake currently has 25m3 of drone bay. Instead, it will have a bandwidth of 5, and perhaps a drone bay of 50 to 75m3. This still caps out the drake pilot at 5 light drones or one heavy, but now he can hold some spares if they die in combat.
Domi currently has 375m3 of drone bay. Instead, it will have a bandwidth of 25 (or possibly higher to accomodate some of the new drones). This will allow it to control 5 heavies at a time. Its drone bay size may well increase to 500m3 or more, to hold multiple waves of drones, or different damage type ones, logistics, webbers, EW, ect.
Of course, that's a total guess, but it does sound good. =D
And wouldnt just increasing drone bays do the same thing? This bandwidth thing has me worried with no other info.
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Vorjak Ogreblood
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Posted - 2007.09.11 04:43:00 -
[62]
I think lag might be addressed, at least partially, within the 600 fixes they mention. And even if it isn't, planning to fix 600 bugs, which is freaking HALF of all bugs is extremely good.
I can't wait for further dev blogs which will surely explain many of these new things in detail, and of course, the patch notes ;)
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.11 04:45:00 -
[63]
This is either going to be extraordinarily good, or extraordinarily bad.
Anyway, some questions
Is "bandwidth" anything like "drone control points"? Really, it ought to be.
Will "bandwidth" reduce the current total number of heavy drones some ships can fit? I am both worried that the Myrmidon will remain untouched and that the Geddon and Typhoon will be unable to launch drones they desperatly need to be competitive.
Will Carriers and Motherships total drones be reduced? This currently is a large source of lag. And changes are necessary to reduce server strain in, at the very least, a similar manner to the last drone nerf. Will anything else be done to fighter and drone architecture to reduce lag?
On an partially unrelated note. Will Drones ships extra mid/low slot ever be looked at? Drones are pretty much like high slots right now, so ships with large drone bays or "bandwidth" pretty much have extra fitting compared to ships that dont. Add in the extra med and low slots and you start getting problems.
Does "long-range, high versitility" mean that the Rokh and all other t2 snipers are now obsolete? An Amarran battleship with a range bonus, is absolutly and utterly ridiculous due to both the strength of the range bonus and the 250km max lock range. Or will these ships be relegated to using missiles? If not relegated to using missiles, how will you ensure they are versitile and long range without totaly overpowering them and making them super-hacs? Because right now, i am thinking about the Current Apoc or Geddon and giving them a range bonus, them i am pairing them either with themselves to hit to 220km with tachs or a scimitar to hit to 141km with pulses and just laughing at all t1 turret ships ever.
Fehndahl[or however you spell his name] seems to have been doing a right dandy job[logistics ships are pretty good, new Khanid ships are great], but i have my doubts that a tech 2 battleship of any sort can be balanced, especially when considering such descriptors as "long range" and "versitile". Because to me that dreams up things like "lots of turret and missile slots" and "lots of mid and low slots". Then, when you get into working in racial slotting layouts means some whacky things occur, and not in a good way.
Will Tech 2 Black-Ops battleships negate the need for stargates or will at least one ship have to get in as is current? Something that was brought up on our internal forum was changing carriers to not have fighters, but be able to bring friendlies in their bay. While this would be much too large a redesign of carriers{you can change weapon types when alternatives exist, but its pretty rough to remove a ships damage potential, especialy ones with such long training times), it would be very cool if this is what you had planned for Black-ops BS. Ships that worked to easily resupply forces with ships and fittings under combat scenarios while also being able to move pilots around.
Will cruiser sized interdictors have weapons? Please say no. I love interdictors, but...
Tech 2 Ewar Frigates is an awesome awesome idea. There is nothing wrong with this so long as they arent executed like assault frigs.
More booster are awesome... except for the whole "these are unstacking bonuses to your ship and in many instances introduce game breaking mechanics or make currently broken mechanics even worse"
Integrated kill log :*) I really like this. Stravos is dead wrong about why people PvP(in fact you really shouldnt listen to much of anything he says at all)
Will we get another dev blog on the "Big bada boom" section because that sounds hot, really, really hot. If tech 2 battleships and cruiser hulled interdictors werent such a big deal of balance changes this is the section I want to hear about the most.
More documentation is always good. Will these sites/resources be both IGB and Standard browzer compatable?
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Vaarmoth Malinigvious
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.09.11 04:59:00 -
[64]
How about the promised love for 0.0 pirate agents? You know the risk - reward thingy?
The Blood Raiders need some serious lovin'
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Skraeling Shortbus
Caldari
Gallente Federal Bank
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Posted - 2007.09.11 04:59:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Goumindong
On an partially unrelated note. Will Drones ships extra mid/low slot ever be looked at? Drones are pretty much like high slots right now, so ships with large drone bays or "bandwidth" pretty much have extra fitting compared to ships that dont. Add in the extra med and low slots and you start getting problems.
I dont agree. Why does the archon have another lowslot compared to the thanatos? Why does the nidhogger not know what to tank and have less than both. Complaining that drone ships get free highslots is ludicrous some of us actually use them as a weapon system in and of themselves. Fitting guns on the domi is painfully difficult when trying to put any kind of a tank on it.. so the hybrid bonus is usually wasted. Really i dont see a problem (myrm excluded since it can fit guns AND a full tank). goodluck doing that on a domi.
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Cyril
RABBLE-RABBLE
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.09.11 05:12:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Goumindong
Does "long-range, high versitility" mean that the Rokh and all other t2 snipers are now obsolete?
Based on what I've read from the interview (linked some place earlier in the thread) you are thinking of the wrong type of range. It isn't a weapon range it is a ship range, aka you can go out ratting for a long time without having to run home to drop loot/get ammo as they are expected to have much larger cargo bays.
Originally by: Goumindong
Will Tech 2 Black-Ops battleships negate the need for stargates or will at least one ship have to get in as is current? Something that was brought up on our internal forum was changing carriers to not have fighters, but be able to bring friendlies in their bay. While this would be much too large a redesign of carriers{you can change weapon types when alternatives exist, but its pretty rough to remove a ships damage potential, especialy ones with such long training times), it would be very cool if this is what you had planned for Black-ops BS. Ships that worked to easily resupply forces with ships and fittings under combat scenarios while also being able to move pilots around.
With the limited type of ships that it will allow. The blog lists a portal for other cov-ops type ships. I think this will be minimally useful other then doing IPB type of activities (that's intelligence preparation of the battle field for the non military types)
Other comments on the blog. I'm a little disappointed about faction warfare being left out, not surprised after an earlier blog or interview or something mentioning that it wouldn't be done if it couldn't be done well in the time they had for the patch.
The new ship classes are going to be great fun. I can't wait to see the prototypes start showing up on the test server. (Got to get the skills all trained up before they go live) Lots of love for the things I like to fly.
insert witty sig here. |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Blood Corsair's
The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.09.11 05:17:00 -
[67]
Rev3: HOLY CRAP, it's gonna be sweet. 
[Video]Blood Corsairs - Day One |
Liang Nuren
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.09.11 05:18:00 -
[68]
*WOW*. OMG, rawr. <3 teh luvz!
Liang
Yarr? |
Sunaria
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Posted - 2007.09.11 05:19:00 -
[69]
I only have one thing I like to say about this
why wait with fixing the multispec probe untill november ???
no seriously this needs to be fixed a lot sooner. Other then that this seems something to be very exiting about and look forward to.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.11 05:20:00 -
[70]
Something i forgot.
Will "assist" be anything like "assign", minus the ability to do it from off grid?
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Hugh Ruka
Caldari
Free Traders
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Posted - 2007.09.11 05:20:00 -
[71]
hmmm
long blog, very little information.
I hope there will be followup blogs on all the items mentioned. There are more open questions (and important ones) than were answered. Funky descriptions and complete lack of any detail.
You could have used the blogspace much better for example only on the new graphics engine and UI with some screenshots.
Originally by: Aravel Thon
Originally by: Nith Batoxxx
Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox...............
I am so so terribly sorry...
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Draekas Darkwater
Moons of Pluto
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Posted - 2007.09.11 05:22:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Skraeling Shortbus
Originally by: Draekas Darkwater
stuff
And wouldnt just increasing drone bays do the same thing? This bandwidth thing has me worried with no other info.
No. Look at what a Drake can field now. 5 light drones max, or 2 meds and 1 light.
If you simply increase the drone bay to 50m3, then you could field 5 mediums at once.. a marked increase in dps and utility over what it can currently field.
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Skraeling Shortbus
Caldari
Gallente Federal Bank
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Posted - 2007.09.11 05:28:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Draekas Darkwater
Originally by: Skraeling Shortbus
Originally by: Draekas Darkwater
stuff
And wouldnt just increasing drone bays do the same thing? This bandwidth thing has me worried with no other info.
No. Look at what a Drake can field now. 5 light drones max, or 2 meds and 1 light.
If you simply increase the drone bay to 50m3, then you could field 5 mediums at once.. a marked increase in dps and utility over what it can currently field.
gotcha thanks :)
seems like a buff to a lot of ships then, maybe time for some drone ship love? :)
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.11 05:33:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Skraeling Shortbus
Originally by: Goumindong
On an partially unrelated note. Will Drones ships extra mid/low slot ever be looked at? Drones are pretty much like high slots right now, so ships with large drone bays or "bandwidth" pretty much have extra fitting compared to ships that dont. Add in the extra med and low slots and you start getting problems.
I dont agree. Why does the archon have another lowslot compared to the thanatos? Why does the nidhogger not know what to tank and have less than both. Complaining that drone ships get free highslots is ludicrous some of us actually use them as a weapon system in and of themselves. Fitting guns on the domi is painfully difficult when trying to put any kind of a tank on it.. so the hybrid bonus is usually wasted. Really i dont see a problem (myrm excluded since it can fit guns AND a full tank). goodluck doing that on a domi.
An electron domi with no damage mods does 900 dps and still fits an LAR and 6 slots of resistance modules[before using rigs], excuse me while bemoan the fact that that not only does it have more DPS than any other short range ship when fitting no damage mods, it also has a huge tank and extra slots.
If you so wish, you can fit the Domi exactly like a myrm, except now you get to use the extra med slot a bit better, and fit a dual 1600 rt, dual lar, injected 7 slot tank. You STILL do more DPS than a 0 dmg mod electron Megathron[656 on the Mega vs 766 on the Domi], AND you get a bigger tank, AND you get an extra mid slot. [setup is 6x Heavy Neutron II[CN antimatter M]/ MWD, web, scram, inject, [free med for ewar, sensor booster, or second web]/LAR,LAR, 1600rt, 1600rt, EANM II, EANM II, DCII]
Yea, excuse the phoon, which with a comparable tank to the 900 DPS domi does 715 dps... but doesnt get an extra slot, and cant downsize its weapons.
Then we have the Istar, which actualy tanks and ganks about as well as a Deimos when leaving 2 med slots and 2 high slots with nothing in them.[No one should have had a question about who was going to win that Deimos/Ishtar fight in the tourney, if only because of slotting and weapon strength, let alone the t2 resist issue]
Now, i dont have a problem with drone ships being good, and i dont have a problem with them doing a lot of DPS while having a stronger than average tank. But when they do more DPS when having a horribly stronger than average tank AND get free med slots to boot, yea, i start having some issues with the balance decisions that caused that to happen.
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Kvarium Ki
Legion Du Lys
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.11 05:41:00 -
[75]
Interesting blog.
I'm a little worried about the changes to drones, this is going to require a lot of testing for balance as someone allready mentioned.
What I'd like to see is more frequent rebalancing patches. I understand that you introduce new features pre-nerfed but having to wait several months before you revisit the feature and balance it isn't fun.
I'm looking forward to the patch.
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Shevar
Minmatar
A.W.M
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.09.11 05:45:00 -
[76]
Looks like a realistic and solid not over the top expansion (well perhaps the gfx engine is).
So kudos
---
-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Sevarus James
Minmatar
Meridian Dynamics
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.11 05:54:00 -
[77]
Good looking patch, although I gotta add that if more than 75-80 folks crash into each other in a single system, all the cute lovely new T2 stuff is meaningless if you cannot even load the grid.
Having participated VERY recently in some massive fighting in the drone region, it is f'in pitiful to KNOW that the node has been reinforced, and yet grid lock ups, frozen clients and insta trips to the clone vat without ever seeing the battlefield, much less pulling the trigger on the enemy is still the norm rather than the exception.
Hearing FC's have to toss command off because their overview disappears, hearing corp and alliance mates indicate they are back in home systems without seeing the field of play FIRST, all of these bells n' whistles mean less and less to those of us involved in this type of warfare.
This isn't to say "don't do the new stuff"....I've been here too long (4+ years as a player) to say that, but until we get BANDWIDTH to and from the servers a cool new toy is just a nifty bit of graphics. Until these toys can be used SMOOTHLY in the heat of fleet combat, its a luck of the dice and 1 fps and the burning of a massive amount of isk for not much result.
Ubuntu 3d Beryl-Linux Desktop+EVE |
Nick119
Minmatar
Epic Empire
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Posted - 2007.09.11 05:57:00 -
[78]
**** yes. i Love you CCP now i need new pants
lol j/k  Drone love ftw
Ill find you IN A POD |
Sir Scorpion
Black Banners
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Posted - 2007.09.11 06:16:00 -
[79]
i am so happy 
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Kil'Roy
Minmatar
The Rat Patrol
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Posted - 2007.09.11 06:16:00 -
[80]
I don't know if it has already been discussed, but these are my choices for the different models for the new T2 Battleships:
Violators
Amarr Abaddon
Caldari Rokh
Gallente Hyperion
Minmatar Malestrom
Black Ops
Amarr Armgeddon
Caldari Scorpion
Gallente Megathron
Minmatar Tempest
Who else would support this?
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Ethidium Bromide
ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.11 06:23:00 -
[81]
lots of nice ideas there! personally the interdiction cruisers are my favourites
Originally by: George Petsch
Nochricht: Dei schwarer StroinlSser trifftn Karli[Baatzis] und ruiniert erm so richtig de Dosn, 1343.7 schhodn, oida.
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Malusonius
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Posted - 2007.09.11 06:24:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Malusonius on 11/09/2007 06:24:54
What I'd really like to see from drones is a "Work Together" command or something like that.
To me, "Assist" means assist the capsuleer, which I guess isn't too bad, but is a little inefficient since the ships weapons are also putting out a large amount of damage (ok not always, but sometimes). I could be reading it completely wrong and it may mean assist a specific drone, but seriously....I'm not fond of how you have to tell all the drones to attack a target if you want them to work together to take something down.
Have like, a drone leader or something and have all the other drones follow it around pwning stuff. =D
A lot of this stuff sounds really good though, but some clarifications would be nice. Can't wait.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Blood Corsair's
The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.09.11 06:28:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Goumindong
Is "bandwidth" anything like "drone control points"? Really, it ought to be.
Will "bandwidth" reduce the current total number of heavy drones some ships can fit? I am both worried that the Myrmidon will remain untouched and that the Geddon and Typhoon will be unable to launch drones they desperatly need to be competitive.
OMG. Every post of yours makes me want to vomit. Can you possibly whine about drone ships any more than you currently do?
Bandwidth will simply allow smaller ships to have a larger drone bay (read: frigates, cruisers) while maintaining balance with respect to total DPS available through drones. Example: an Ishkur could now have 100m3 of drone space available, while only able to field a maximum of 5x lights or 4x mediums as it can now.
Ships like the Dominix and other battleships that can currenly field 5x heavies would be unaffected (especially the Dominix, due to it's larger drone bay than 125m3) DPS wise, but you may see ships with smaller drone bays getting buffed (like Caldari ships for instance, you insufferable whiner) so that they will have more drones as options, but still limited with respect to their total DPS output.
I don't see Carrier/MS max number of drones being reduced.
Originally by: Goumindong
On an partially unrelated note. Will Drones ships extra mid/low slot ever be looked at? Drones are pretty much like high slots right now, so ships with large drone bays or "bandwidth" pretty much have extra fitting compared to ships that dont. Add in the extra med and low slots and you start getting problems.
Can you possibly whine more? I doubt it. Bandwidth will improve overall ship flexibility to non-drone specialized ships. Drone ships are so totally not overpowered.
Originally by: Goumindong
Does "long-range, high versitility" mean that the Rokh and all other t2 snipers are now obsolete? An Amarran battleship with a range bonus, is absolutly and utterly ridiculous due to both the strength of the range bonus and the 250km max lock range. Or will these ships be relegated to using missiles? If not relegated to using missiles, how will you ensure they are versitile and long range without totaly overpowering them and making them super-hacs? Because right now, i am thinking about the Current Apoc or Geddon and giving them a range bonus, them i am pairing them either with themselves to hit to 220km with tachs or a scimitar to hit to 141km with pulses and just laughing at all t1 turret ships ever.
Do you read EVERY new piece of information in context of how it could possibly infringe upon Caldari ships? It's absolutely nauseating. The term 'long ranged' is meant to imply endurance. Not combat range. As in able to operate for extended periods of time on it's own. Large cargo bays, etc. The whining is sickening.
Originally by: Goumindong
ed: Will i ever get more than 4000 characters to use to type a message on the forums?
I sure hope not.
We have zero hard data on anything. No numbers, nothing on the test server, and already you're freaking out about how overpowered drone ships are and how everything is going to ruin Caldari ship roles. It's like nails on a chalkboard.
[Video]Blood Corsairs - Day One |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Blood Corsair's
The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.09.11 06:31:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Kil'Roy
I don't know if it has already been discussed, but these are my choices for the different models for the new T2 Battleships:
Violators
Amarr Abaddon
Caldari Rokh
Gallente Hyperion
Minmatar Malestrom
Black Ops
Amarr Armgeddon
Caldari Scorpion
Gallente Megathron
Minmatar Tempest
Who else would support this?
Hell yes. Anything as long as they don't use the Dominix model for a new T2 BS. Please God no.
[Video]Blood Corsairs - Day One |
Clansworth
Point-Zero
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.11 06:48:00 -
[85]
Wow, it would seem the sheer mention of all this potential goodness, has crashed the server... telling??
Anyways, I would love some more information on Trinity 2... as in, what kind of horsepower are we gonna need to enjoy it?
And the new kill-mails... will there be an export option? Something in the API? be awesomeness to be able to use the safe API keys, to let corporate and aliance killboards automatically sync up with it's members. Finally, lossmails would get acuratly posted!
Prospector Class |
Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.09.11 06:57:00 -
[86]
Where is my T2 Myrmidom?! And where is my HAC BS ?! FFS, Your dev blog is epic failure. 
I was sworn absolute love by Pepperami
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rodgerd
Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.09.11 07:00:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Hoshi
Edited by: Hoshi on 11/09/2007 01:42:17
My understanding is this.
With this change they can give you a drone bay big enough to hold 5 heavy drones BUT at the same time using bandwidth limit you to only have 5 mediums out at the same time. This will allow them to give lower level drone boats (like vexor, thorax, arbitrator etc) more room for different drones and for more waves without increasing their dps at the same time.
It will be... interesting, to say the least, to see if this turns into a huge nerf to the Myrmidon.
--
Not the opinions of my corp. |
rodgerd
Uninvited Guests
|
Posted - 2007.09.11 07:05:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Goumindong
Edited by: Goumindong on 11/09/2007 05:39:18
An electron domi with no damage mods does 900 dps and still fits an LAR and 6 slots of resistance modules[before using rigs], excuse me while bemoan the fact that that not only does it have more DPS than any other short range ship when fitting no damage mods, it also has a huge tank and extra slots.
Yea, excuse the phoon, which with a comparable tank to the 900 DPS domi does 715 dps... but doesnt get an extra slot, and cant downsize its weapons.
If you want to restrict the Typhoon to the range, speed, and agility of the Domi, I'm sure you can have the extra damage.
Or you can keep being a ****** and demanding the lot in whatever ship you happened to train.
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Not the opinions of my corp. |
BlueIceQueen
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Posted - 2007.09.11 07:13:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
OMG. Every post of yours makes me want to vomit. Can you possibly whine about drone ships any more than you currently do?
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Hell yes. Anything as long as they don't use the Dominix model for a new T2 BS. Please God no.
ok from before the release of the previous patch and the bs's having the ability to run invention jobs on them, i would have to say the following
Violators
Amarr Apoc
Caldari Raven
Gallente Mega
Minmatar Tempest
Black Ops
Amarr Armgeddon
Caldari Scorpion
Gallente Domi
Minmatar Typhoon
Thats just a guess at best though.
as for the 4 or more remaining only time will tell what we have in store for us
Originally by: InnerDrive
Will we get to see IMPLANTS LOST on KILLMAILS?
I really hope that will be possible too
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Metaller
Ocean Dynamics
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.09.11 07:14:00 -
[90]
NO LOVE FOR THE DRONE REGIONS???
low sec is getting gas clouds and stuff and all 5 0.0 regions dont even have hacking or archeology sites?
that sucks!
And fix that damn exploration bug with the multispecs before rev 3. Or exploration in the drone regions is completly screwed as we have nothing else than unknowns to scan for!!!!!
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