Originally by: DeltaH

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It sounds more like having a drone bay of 150m3 while only being able to have 75m3 (bandwidth) in space at a time. So for instance you could have 6 heavy drones in your bay, but only 3 out at a time. So it decouples the drone bay from being the single determining factor of the drone setup you can field.

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Originally by: Tamia Clant

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Drone Bandwidth? What exactly are you talking about, link?

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Quote:

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"With this, bandwidth determines the number of drones you can control, allowing the dronebay to be considerably increased on drone ships"

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Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari

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This has to be the single most stupidest idea I've heard. Nerfing drone ships when they're not broken to begin with, and blaming it on lag.

First they already nerfed drones by making it based on the Drones skill (amount of drones locked to 5 unless using drone module to increase limit), now they're nerfing it more?

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Originally by: Liz Kali

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Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking

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Originally by: TheDagda

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*click*
For the love of the jovians stops necroing

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Originally by: consider telos

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..then we had a fight and he was so dead and
then I like became champion of eve and then
ccp gave me a medal and a t-shirt and asked
me to go out with him on a date to mcD'

Originally by: Tamia Clant

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Ahh, so it's a nerf to drone-ships coming up then? I sense much whineage on the forums!

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Originally by: cal nereus

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Sounds awesome. I always was irritated that my Myrmidon was doing as much, if not more, damage than my Dominix.

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Originally by: Liz Kali

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Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking

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Originally by: TheDagda

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*click*
For the love of the jovians stops necroing

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Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny

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Originally by: cal nereus

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Sounds awesome. I always was irritated that my Myrmidon was doing as much, if not more, damage than my Dominix.

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that's just cause you suck

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Originally by: bsspewer

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does this mean motherships will be able to deploy 20 fighters or 500 light hobgoblins?

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Originally by: bsspewer

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does this mean motherships will be able to deploy 20 fighters or 500 light hobgoblins?

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Originally by: DeltaH

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It sounds more like having a drone bay of 150m3 while only being able to have 75m3 (bandwidth) in space at a time. So for instance you could have 6 heavy drones in your bay, but only 3 out at a time. So it decouples the drone bay from being the single determining factor of the drone setup you can field.

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Originally by: Draekas Darkwater

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I posted this in the blog thread, but saw this so anyway:

If I had to make a total guess about how the drones will work it would be this.

Drones will take different amounts of bandwidth to control at once, and each ship will have a maximum bandwith. 5 drones out at once will still be the max.

Small drones will take up 1 bandwidth, meds 3, and heavies 5. The new drones might have better stats, but use more bandwidth each than the regular ones we have currently. Not sure if Tech 2 will cost more bandwidth than tech 1s.

Example ships. Drake and Domi.

The Drake currently has 25m3 of drone bay. Instead, it will have a bandwidth of 5, and perhaps a drone bay of 50 to 75m3. This still caps out the drake pilot at 5 light drones or one heavy, but now he can hold some spares if they die in combat.

Domi currently has 375m3 of drone bay. Instead, it will have a bandwidth of 25 (or possibly higher to accomodate some of the new drones). This will allow it to control 5 heavies at a time. Its drone bay size may well increase to 500m3 or more, to hold multiple waves of drones, or different damage type ones, logistics, webbers, EW, ect.

Of course, that's a total guess, but it does sound good. =D

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Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari

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This has to be the single most stupidest idea I've heard. Nerfing drone ships when they're not broken to begin with, and blaming it on lag.

First they already nerfed drones by making it based on the Drones skill (amount of drones locked to 5 unless using drone module to increase limit), now they're nerfing it more?

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: Tamia Clant

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Ahh, so it's a nerf to drone-ships coming up then? I sense much whineage on the forums!

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Pretty much. This does fix the issue with relaunching and rescooping abandoned drones to get more drones active than your bay can hold. The only other thing this would do is let CCP restrict ships to their size class of drone. Perhaps Vexors and Myrmidons will be restricted to medium drones. That's sure to cause some upset.

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Quote:

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What are you babbling on about, where is there a nerf here?

Jesus, these forums sometimes...

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Originally by: Laah T'Sin

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Well the way this sounds atm I can only hope that CCP reduces the damage modifier of guns and ROF on missiles at the same time they start reducing the amount of drones in the system. Would be the end of drone boats if you can only fly them in low-lag systems... especially because there simply are no low-lag systems in EVE.

But let's see what CCP is actually planning before crying.

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Originally by: Lord WarATron

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Edited by: Lord WarATron on 11/09/2007 10:01:41
Here is the dev blog quote

"About time" is probably the first thing that comes to mind. Not only are we improving the interface, we're working on the logic behind them. This should hopefully lead to them being more consistent in control and abolish their free will. Assist and Guard are new commands coming in, we're getting lots of new named drones and we're adding a new constraint on drones, bandwidth. With this, bandwidth determines the number of drones you can control, allowing the dronebay to be considerably increased on drone ships, accommodating more waves or variety. Ubar? Ja!

So basicall all that is being said is

1. Named drones are coming in
2. To use named drones, no doubt people want bigger drone bays
3. Bigger drone bays will mean vexors and arbritator can field 5 ogre II
4. To balance bigger dronebays, introduce something called drone bandwith to stop 15 arbitrators with 5 ogre II's from ganking a freightor! Bandwith is basically there to make sure you can release as many drones in the future as you can today, since future dronebays are going to get bigger.

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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Oh please no, I've had enough with real world taxes, and dealing with the tax agency. No more taxes!!

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Originally by: CCP Prism X

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There's no such thing as playing too much EvE!
You all obviously need more accounts!

Originally by: Chribba

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WTB: Drone Bandwidth Upgrade Modules in order to launch omgbbqwtf amount of Civilian Mining Drones.

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/09/2007 11:16:26
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/09/2007 11:15:55


It's a buff to drone ships most likely, since I see the bandwidth staying the same and drone bays increasing.

Then again, if bandwidth decreases by a small amount, they'll stay alright. It just might render the 'shoot drones' tactic less useful, since there *may* be massive room for replacements if they increase drone bays. Could we at least then get rid of the scoop & redeploy trick?

I didn't know drone-ships were in need of help, but oh well

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Originally by: Bellum Eternus

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/09/2007 11:16:26
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/09/2007 11:15:55


It's a buff to drone ships most likely, since I see the bandwidth staying the same and drone bays increasing.

Then again, if bandwidth decreases by a small amount, they'll stay alright. It just might render the 'shoot drones' tactic less useful, since there *may* be massive room for replacements if they increase drone bays. Could we at least then get rid of the scoop & redeploy trick?

I didn't know drone-ships were in need of help, but oh well

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The only ships this will help are those with small drone bays. That is: non-drone ships, and possibly the Myrmidon.

But with all the whining going on, I don't see the devs giving the Myrm *more* drone bay space (they could have when they made it, and they didn't) and let it keep it's 5x heavies in the air.

I predict that they reduce it's allowed drones in space to 4x heavies or 3x, and increase it's drone bay space. The Myrm will see a big nerf with Rev3.

Mostly due to lame sniveling whiners like yourself. Personally I can't stand the Myrm. No backup for it's 5x Heavies, no additional drone groups if you use 5x Heavies, no gun bonus. It's a lousy drone ship. It's DPS is going to get nerfed for Rev3. Bandwidth has been custom designed to do just that.

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Originally by: bsspewer

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does this mean motherships will be able to deploy 20 fighters or 500 light hobgoblins?

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Originally by: 49125

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Edited by: 49125 on 11/09/2007 09:36:03

Quote:

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What are you babbling on about, where is there a nerf here?

Jesus, these forums sometimes...

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The delivery sucked but speaking to the heart of the change, the poster you quoted is correct - its a (general) nerf. Every single element of a game such as Eve that promotes diversity *must* by definition nerf min/maxing. Given the existing structure supports min/maxing ...

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Originally by: Bellum Eternus

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Can we get this thread locked?

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Originally by: Leneerra

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I think it is also a response to the complaints thet there is no downside, or so called increased fitting requirement for t2 drones
I expect t2 drone to require more bandwith than t1 ones of the same class.
So a ship that may currently have 50m3 drone space is likely to be able to field 5 med t1 drones with its bandwith, but not 5 t2 ones. in addition it's drone bay can be increased to allow replacement of alternates without increasing its drone damage potential.

I do expect modules and rigs to boost bandwith eventually, just like they exist for grid and cpu but maybe not released immedeately. things have to be ballanced and seen in practice before tweaking can occur afterall.

In all I think it can be a great addition to eve, allowing more versatility, while also limiting some of the excesses.

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Originally by: Tamia Clant

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Ahh, so it's a nerf to drone-ships coming up then? I sense much whineage on the forums!

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Originally by: CCP Chronotis

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Regarding drone bandwidth, to jump in on Fendahl's feature, this is as many have suggested here, an additional constraint on drones so that the maximum will still be 5 drones as now, but an additional attribute of drone bandwidth will be added, allowing us to remove the necessity to balance ships according to drone bay capacity alone. Many blogs will be incoming over the coming weeks to explain the features in detail as ever.

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Originally by: Draekas Darkwater

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I posted this in the blog thread, but saw this so anyway:

If I had to make a total guess about how the drones will work it would be this.

Drones will take different amounts of bandwidth to control at once, and each ship will have a maximum bandwith. 5 drones out at once will still be the max.

Small drones will take up 1 bandwidth, meds 3, and heavies 5. The new drones might have better stats, but use more bandwidth each than the regular ones we have currently. Not sure if Tech 2 will cost more bandwidth than tech 1s.

Example ships. Drake and Domi.

The Drake currently has 25m3 of drone bay. Instead, it will have a bandwidth of 5, and perhaps a drone bay of 50 to 75m3. This still caps out the drake pilot at 5 light drones or one heavy, but now he can hold some spares if they die in combat.

Domi currently has 375m3 of drone bay. Instead, it will have a bandwidth of 25 (or possibly higher to accomodate some of the new drones). This will allow it to control 5 heavies at a time. Its drone bay size may well increase to 500m3 or more, to hold multiple waves of drones, or different damage type ones, logistics, webbers, EW, ect.

Of course, that's a total guess, but it does sound good. =D

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Originally by: Hllaxiu

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Edited by: Hllaxiu on 11/09/2007 01:09:27
Basically its a balancing factor for the Arbitrator Hull, Vexor, and Myrmidon. Lets say you only want these two ships to field medium drones. That means that you can realistically have a maximum drone bay of 75m3. This leaves no room for spares - dedicated heavy drone carriers however do get room for spares. If 50m3 of drone bandwidth is assigned to the above ships, their drone bays can be increased without turning them into heavy drone carriers (Ishtar, Dominix).

The Mymridon and Eos are the ships, if any, to receive a nerf out of this change - I expect the nonIshtar cruiser based drone boats to be boosted quite a bit with this change, as they will be able to carry spares now. This will also allow the Myrmidon to be rebalanced against medium drones. Good thing in my opinion.

I realize that the blog said "number of drones" but I'm betting that this is how things are going to end up, one way or another (perhaps a conversion factor between light/medium/heavy drones).

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Originally by: benzss

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In vaguely related news, 'about time' to the new drone interface is probably about right.

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Originally by: CCP Hammer

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Originally by: Hllaxiu

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Edited by: Hllaxiu on 11/09/2007 01:09:27
Basically its a balancing factor for the Arbitrator Hull, Vexor, and Myrmidon. Lets say you only want these two ships to field medium drones. That means that you can realistically have a maximum drone bay of 75m3. This leaves no room for spares - dedicated heavy drone carriers however do get room for spares. If 50m3 of drone bandwidth is assigned to the above ships, their drone bays can be increased without turning them into heavy drone carriers (Ishtar, Dominix).

The Mymridon and Eos are the ships, if any, to receive a nerf out of this change - I expect the nonIshtar cruiser based drone boats to be boosted quite a bit with this change, as they will be able to carry spares now. This will also allow the Myrmidon to be rebalanced against medium drones. Good thing in my opinion.

I realize that the blog said "number of drones" but I'm betting that this is how things are going to end up, one way or another (perhaps a conversion factor between light/medium/heavy drones).

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This is fairly spot on. Expect a dev blog about this from the relevant dev before the patch hits. We're not doing this to try and nerf people.

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Originally by: CCP Hammer

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Originally by: Hllaxiu

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Edited by: Hllaxiu on 11/09/2007 01:09:27
Basically its a balancing factor for the Arbitrator Hull, Vexor, and Myrmidon. Lets say you only want these two ships to field medium drones. That means that you can realistically have a maximum drone bay of 75m3. This leaves no room for spares - dedicated heavy drone carriers however do get room for spares. If 50m3 of drone bandwidth is assigned to the above ships, their drone bays can be increased without turning them into heavy drone carriers (Ishtar, Dominix).

The Mymridon and Eos are the ships, if any, to receive a nerf out of this change - I expect the nonIshtar cruiser based drone boats to be boosted quite a bit with this change, as they will be able to carry spares now. This will also allow the Myrmidon to be rebalanced against medium drones. Good thing in my opinion.

I realize that the blog said "number of drones" but I'm betting that this is how things are going to end up, one way or another (perhaps a conversion factor between light/medium/heavy drones).

---

This is fairly spot on. Expect a dev blog about this from the relevant dev before the patch hits. We're not doing this to try and nerf people.

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Originally by: CCP Hammer

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Originally by: Hllaxiu

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Edited by: Hllaxiu on 11/09/2007 01:09:27
Basically its a balancing factor for the Arbitrator Hull, Vexor, and Myrmidon. Lets say you only want these two ships to field medium drones. That means that you can realistically have a maximum drone bay of 75m3. This leaves no room for spares - dedicated heavy drone carriers however do get room for spares. If 50m3 of drone bandwidth is assigned to the above ships, their drone bays can be increased without turning them into heavy drone carriers (Ishtar, Dominix).

The Mymridon and Eos are the ships, if any, to receive a nerf out of this change - I expect the nonIshtar cruiser based drone boats to be boosted quite a bit with this change, as they will be able to carry spares now. This will also allow the Myrmidon to be rebalanced against medium drones. Good thing in my opinion.

I realize that the blog said "number of drones" but I'm betting that this is how things are going to end up, one way or another (perhaps a conversion factor between light/medium/heavy drones).

---

This is fairly spot on. Expect a dev blog about this from the relevant dev before the patch hits. We're not doing this to try and nerf people.

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Quote:

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IMO it should, because battlecruisers have always had balancing issues due to being almost as large sig radius wise as a battleship, but only being able to fit medium (cruiser) sized modules. Destroyers suffer some of the same problems.

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Originally by: Surreptitious

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Will the Myrmidon and Eos be capable of fielding 5 Heavy Drones after this change?

Syrup

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Originally by: CCP Hammer

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Originally by: Hllaxiu

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Edited by: Hllaxiu on 11/09/2007 01:09:27
Basically its a balancing factor for the Arbitrator Hull, Vexor, and Myrmidon. Lets say you only want these two ships to field medium drones. That means that you can realistically have a maximum drone bay of 75m3. This leaves no room for spares - dedicated heavy drone carriers however do get room for spares. If 50m3 of drone bandwidth is assigned to the above ships, their drone bays can be increased without turning them into heavy drone carriers (Ishtar, Dominix).

The Mymridon and Eos are the ships, if any, to receive a nerf out of this change - I expect the nonIshtar cruiser based drone boats to be boosted quite a bit with this change, as they will be able to carry spares now. This will also allow the Myrmidon to be rebalanced against medium drones. Good thing in my opinion.

I realize that the blog said "number of drones" but I'm betting that this is how things are going to end up, one way or another (perhaps a conversion factor between light/medium/heavy drones).

---

This is fairly spot on. Expect a dev blog about this from the relevant dev before the patch hits. We're not doing this to try and nerf people.

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Originally by: Shadowsword

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Originally by: Surreptitious

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Will the Myrmidon and Eos be capable of fielding 5 Heavy Drones after this change?

Syrup

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Very probably not. And a dman good thing. Now their dps will be more on par with the others tier2 BC and fleet command ships.

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Originally by: CCP Hammer

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Specific balance changes can be discussed ad nauseam in the resulting forum thread based on not only the upcoming blog but also your testing on SISI. Like I said before we aren't doing this just to nerf you. I'm sure you will all agree it stands to reason that having balanced ships is better than having one ship that is far better than all other other ships in it's class.

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Originally by: CCP Hammer

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Specific balance changes can be discussed ad nauseam in the resulting forum thread based on not only the upcoming blog but also your testing on SISI. Like I said before we aren't doing this just to nerf you. I'm sure you will all agree it stands to reason that having balanced ships is better than having one ship that is far better than all other other ships in it's class.

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Originally by: Cynical Attitude

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Quote:

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IMO it should, because battlecruisers have always had balancing issues due to being almost as large sig radius wise as a battleship, but only being able to fit medium (cruiser) sized modules. Destroyers suffer some of the same problems.

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So the Myrm is unique among BCs in being able to bring to bear BS class weapons, which is why it doesn't need a nerf?

I'm so not following your logic.

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Originally by: Bellum Eternus

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Originally by: CCP Hammer

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Specific balance changes can be discussed ad nauseam in the resulting forum thread based on not only the upcoming blog but also your testing on SISI. Like I said before we aren't doing this just to nerf you. I'm sure you will all agree it stands to reason that having balanced ships is better than having one ship that is far better than all other other ships in it's class.

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LOL. Hammer has just said (very clearly): We're nerfing the Myrmidon and the Eos.

I expected the Myrm to get nerfed, but not the Eos. Wow. Guess I'll never have the chance to fly the Eos with 5x heavies.

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Originally by: benzss

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Edited by: benzss on 11/09/2007 18:04:26
Edited by: benzss on 11/09/2007 18:03:58

Originally by: Cynical Attitude

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Quote:

---

IMO it should, because battlecruisers have always had balancing issues due to being almost as large sig radius wise as a battleship, but only being able to fit medium (cruiser) sized modules. Destroyers suffer some of the same problems.

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So the Myrm is unique among BCs in being able to bring to bear BS class weapons, which is why it doesn't need a nerf?

I'm so not following your logic.

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Follow this logic.

Sure, the Myrmidon can use BS class weaponry (unlike other ships of its class)... but think about it: the Myrmidon *does* have high DPS and it *does* have BS class weaponry, but unlike other battlecruisers - Drake, Hurricane, whatever - it can have its DPS severely dented by a smartbomb or two. Normally for other drone ships this isn't a problem - a Vexor can field an extra two medium drones and a Dominix has a huge drone bay anyway, so it can send another wave. But, once you've killed a Myrm's single wave of hard-hitting drones, it has very, very few offensive capabilities, if any at all.

That's the balance right there... the lack of any spares whatsoever already has the Myrmidon's primary weapon well-balanced. It doesn't really need changing.

The only reason people ***** and moan about Myrms being overpowered in PvP is because they haven't learned how to beat it; trust me, there are some good Hurricane pilots out there who know how to kick a Myrm's ass. And nobody's bleating about needing to nerf Hurricanes.

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Originally by: Snuggly

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It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!

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Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn

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Originally by: benzss

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Edited by: benzss on 11/09/2007 18:04:26
Edited by: benzss on 11/09/2007 18:03:58

Originally by: Cynical Attitude

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Quote:

---

IMO it should, because battlecruisers have always had balancing issues due to being almost as large sig radius wise as a battleship, but only being able to fit medium (cruiser) sized modules. Destroyers suffer some of the same problems.

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So the Myrm is unique among BCs in being able to bring to bear BS class weapons, which is why it doesn't need a nerf?

I'm so not following your logic.

---

Follow this logic.

Sure, the Myrmidon can use BS class weaponry (unlike other ships of its class)... but think about it: the Myrmidon *does* have high DPS and it *does* have BS class weaponry, but unlike other battlecruisers - Drake, Hurricane, whatever - it can have its DPS severely dented by a smartbomb or two. Normally for other drone ships this isn't a problem - a Vexor can field an extra two medium drones and a Dominix has a huge drone bay anyway, so it can send another wave. But, once you've killed a Myrm's single wave of hard-hitting drones, it has very, very few offensive capabilities, if any at all.

That's the balance right there... the lack of any spares whatsoever already has the Myrmidon's primary weapon well-balanced. It doesn't really need changing.

The only reason people ***** and moan about Myrms being overpowered in PvP is because they haven't learned how to beat it; trust me, there are some good Hurricane pilots out there who know how to kick a Myrm's ass. And nobody's bleating about needing to nerf Hurricanes.

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and what happens when the myrm pilot gets a clue, and simply scoups and redeploys his heavys, now with full shield again?

incoming myrm nerf was obvious. Really only a question of when, and I am surprised it took this long. as for the Eos, Eos should not outdamage the astarte, plain and simple.

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Originally by: CCP Hammer

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...nerfage foreshadowing...

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Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn

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as for the Eos, Eos should not outdamage the astarte, plain and simple.

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Originally by: Cmdr Sy

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So you were AFK in low sec in a T2-fitted cruiser and got smartbombed to death by a hauler?

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Originally by: Razin

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Originally by: CCP Hammer

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...nerfage foreshadowing...

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The question is: if you nerf Myrmidon (as, despite your coyness, it sound like you are going to do) will it get the missing fitting slot back?

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Originally by: Hoshi

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Originally by: Razin

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Originally by: CCP Hammer

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...nerfage foreshadowing...

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The question is: if you nerf Myrmidon (as, despite your coyness, it sound like you are going to do) will it get the missing fitting slot back?

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You are kidding me right? Myrm already has the most mid+low of all tier 2 BCs with 11. The rest have 10.

It has 1 less slot total but that is to balance out the fact that is has drones which work as at least one extra high slot. Changing it to medium drones won't change that.

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Originally by: omiNATION

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Wow, this thread turned into a "Save the Myrm!" thing hasn't it?

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Originally by: Cmdr Sy

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So you were AFK in low sec in a T2-fitted cruiser and got smartbombed to death by a hauler?

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Originally by: Drachma Golea

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Originally by: Shadowsword

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Originally by: Surreptitious

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Will the Myrmidon and Eos be capable of fielding 5 Heavy Drones after this change?

Syrup

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Very probably not. And a dman good thing. Now their dps will be more on par with the others tier2 BC and fleet command ships.

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Huh, so you train for an Eos, with the knowledge of the power it has, and you say, well you shouldn't have that knowledge, you should be nerfed?

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Originally by: CCP Hammer

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Specific balance changes can be discussed ad nauseam in the resulting forum thread based on not only the upcoming blog but also your testing on SISI. Like I said before we aren't doing this just to nerf you. I'm sure you will all agree it stands to reason that having balanced ships is better than having one ship that is far better than all other other ships in it's class.

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Originally by: Razin

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Yeah, I guess drastically reducing Myrm DPS and at the same time making its main weapon eminently more destroyable is pretty fair, after all. It don't need the missing slot.

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Originally by: K al

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looks like ccp just gave gallente a slap in the face
1st nos
2nd drones
what next?

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Originally by: Alski

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Agreed, anyone who has run the numbers on all the command ships (i can pritty much cite DPS numbers from memory here) knows that the Eos has THE most suckyest DPS of all the command ships without heavy drones

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Originally by: Malvahne

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Any ETA on when the changes will hit SiSi? Need to know if I can still use 5 heavy drones with the Eos (have such a nice setup using heavy ewar bots and i'll cry if I no longer can perma ecm/damp my target ).

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Originally by: Marux

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Originally by: Malvahne

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Any ETA on when the changes will hit SiSi? Need to know if I can still use 5 heavy drones with the Eos (have such a nice setup using heavy ewar bots and i'll cry if I no longer can perma ecm/damp my target ).

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I would be really surprised if any BC aside from the Myrmidon can field 5 Heavies with this change.

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Originally by: oniplE

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Originally by: Bellum Eternus

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Originally by: CCP Hammer

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Specific balance changes can be discussed ad nauseam in the resulting forum thread based on not only the upcoming blog but also your testing on SISI. Like I said before we aren't doing this just to nerf you. I'm sure you will all agree it stands to reason that having balanced ships is better than having one ship that is far better than all other other ships in it's class.

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LOL. Hammer has just said (very clearly): We're nerfing the Myrmidon and the Eos.

I expected the Myrm to get nerfed, but not the Eos. Wow. Guess I'll never have the chance to fly the Eos with 5x heavies.

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Why would the eos be nerfed? Its drone bonus is very different from the myrmidon's.

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Originally by: Hoshi

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Originally by: Razin

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Yeah, I guess drastically reducing Myrm DPS and at the same time making its main weapon eminently more destroyable is pretty fair, after all. It don't need the missing slot.

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Less destroyable as you will now be able to carry spares. No it doesn't need the slot because it's not missing, having less total slots is not something unique to the myrmidon, it's something shared with all other drone ships as a balancing factor and it's always highslots which are the least important slots of all that are removed.

It's because drones are your weapons instead of the guns so you do not need as many high slots for weapons.

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Originally by: Bellum Eternus

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Right now I'm at a crossroads with my training. If they nerf the Eos and the Ishtar, it will significantly change my skill path. Come to think of it, they're going to nerf damps too, so that will really hurt my skilling as well.

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Originally by: Alski

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Agreed, anyone who has run the numbers on all the command ships (i can pritty much cite DPS numbers from memory here) knows that the Eos has THE most suckyest DPS of all the command ships without heavy drones, With heavy drones it has higher than average DPS, but in return it has the worst tank of all the gallante and minmatar CS.

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Originally by: Bellum Eternus

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The only thing that really would make me worried is if they limited the Ishtar and the number of heavies it could deploy. If the Ishtar gets nerfed, I'm going to be very disappointed.

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Originally by: Gypsio III

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However, the Myrm has, in addition to those heavy drones, 6 turret slots (more than the Ferox, absurdly), and 5 midslots, allowing it to use the dampers-scoop-redeploy with shield recharged trick very effectively. And no great fitting problems, which at least keeps the Domi in some sort of balance.

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Originally by: Razin

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You don't need to repeat yourself about why the slot is missing. The slot was taken away during balancing on SISI at the time when NOS was still a weapon. The nerfed Myrm could use a utility slot for a remote armor rep or something. Definitely not overpowering.

The medium drones are easily killed off by adversary ship's secondary weapons: drones. As future Myrm's medium drones are killed off its new meager DPS suffers even more.

And other drone ships have other bonuses.

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Originally by: Farrellus Cameron

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Bandwidth will be an attribute on a ship that limits the number and type of drones a ship can use. So the Thorax will say get 50 Bandwidth. Heavy drones will use up 25 bandwidth, and medium drones will use up 10 bandwidth. This means the Thorax will still only be able to field 2 heavies. But, now they can increase the size of the drone bay so that you can carry multiple types of drones. They can make it 200m3, but prevent you from fielding more then 2 heavies. This will keep the drone DPS the same, but allow you to carry different damage types or e-war drones for different situations.

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Originally by: Hoshi

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Originally by: Razin

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You don't need to repeat yourself about why the slot is missing. The slot was taken away during balancing on SISI at the time when NOS was still a weapon. The nerfed Myrm could use a utility slot for a remote armor rep or something. Definitely not overpowering.

The medium drones are easily killed off by adversary ship's secondary weapons: drones. As future Myrm's medium drones are killed off its new meager DPS suffers even more.

And other drone ships have other bonuses.

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I am repeting myself as you don't seem to get it. Drone boats loose one high slot because it gains the power of drones. If it had the same number of highs as the others and drones as the same time it would be the same as giving all the other the BCs the drone space (and later bandwidth) as the myrm. Of course that would be just as wrong.

And still seems to miss the fact that you will actually have room for several drone waves so killing drones is just going to be a mission in futility.

As for other drone boats getting other bonuses so do the myrm, a tanking bonus. Should it have been a damage bonus instead? Maybe it should have but personally I think there is something wrong when a drone ship outdamages a blaster ship.

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Originally by: Razin

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Originally by: Hoshi

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Originally by: Razin

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You don't need to repeat yourself about why the slot is missing. The slot was taken away during balancing on SISI at the time when NOS was still a weapon. The nerfed Myrm could use a utility slot for a remote armor rep or something. Definitely not overpowering.

The medium drones are easily killed off by adversary ship's secondary weapons: drones. As future Myrm's medium drones are killed off its new meager DPS suffers even more.

And other drone ships have other bonuses.

---

I am repeting myself as you don't seem to get it. Drone boats loose one high slot because it gains the power of drones. If it had the same number of highs as the others and drones as the same time it would be the same as giving all the other the BCs the drone space (and later bandwidth) as the myrm. Of course that would be just as wrong.

And still seems to miss the fact that you will actually have room for several drone waves so killing drones is just going to be a mission in futility.

As for other drone boats getting other bonuses so do the myrm, a tanking bonus. Should it have been a damage bonus instead? Maybe it should have but personally I think there is something wrong when a drone ship outdamages a blaster ship.

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I guess you're one of those people who thinks that shouting overcomes a language barrier.

You also miss the fact that deploying and recalling drones takes time that severely affects DPS when theyÆre your major contributor.

And why exactly is it wrong when a drone ship outdamages a blaster ship? There are certainly other factors at play here that may justify either. What you said, and what you should have said from the very beginning, it that you're stating your personal opinions. And that's fine, 'cause we know everyone's got one.

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Originally by: Tamia Clant

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Ahh, so it's a nerf to drone-ships coming up then? I sense much whineage on the forums!

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Originally by: CCP Hammer

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Specific balance changes can be discussed ad nauseam in the resulting forum thread based on not only the upcoming blog but also your testing on SISI. Like I said before we aren't doing this just to nerf you. I'm sure you will all agree it stands to reason that having balanced ships is better than having one ship that is far better than all other other ships in it's class.

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Originally by: benzss

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And nobody's bleating about needing to nerf Hurricanes.

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Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad

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Drone ships on principle should not out-damage a blaster ship because while you can easily get drones out to 45km with minimal skills and no modules, blasters not only have to deal with optimal ranges of a few km

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Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto

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Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad

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Drone ships on principle should not out-damage a blaster ship because while you can easily get drones out to 45km with minimal skills and no modules, blasters not only have to deal with optimal ranges of a few km

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Oh FFS. Do you have any idea how long it takes for heavy drones to go 45km? Long enough for you to spam them to death with your launchers. Any drone pilot that lets his drones get that far away from him is first going to lose his drones, and then his ship.

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Originally by: William Alex

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Originally by: bsspewer

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does this mean motherships will be able to deploy 20 fighters or 500 light hobgoblins?

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hehehe 500 lights ftw!!! Motherships doing 10kdps would be sweeeet

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Originally by: CCP Hammer

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Originally by: Hllaxiu

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Edited by: Hllaxiu on 11/09/2007 01:09:27...
The Mymridon and Eos are the ships, if any, to receive a nerf out of this change ...

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This is fairly spot on. Expect a dev blog about this from the relevant dev before the patch hits. We're not doing this to try and nerf people.

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Originally by: Cagot

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Originally by: CCP Hammer

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Originally by: Hllaxiu

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Edited by: Hllaxiu on 11/09/2007 01:09:27...
The Mymridon and Eos are the ships, if any, to receive a nerf out of this change ...

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This is fairly spot on. Expect a dev blog about this from the relevant dev before the patch hits. We're not doing this to try and nerf people.

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I'm not clear here. Hllaxiu said Myrmidon and Eos (if any) will be nerfed by this change. You say you're not trying to nerf people.

Which is it? Is my Myrmidon going to lose striking power?

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Originally by: consider telos

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..then we had a fight and he was so dead and
then I like became champion of eve and then
ccp gave me a medal and a t-shirt and asked
me to go out with him on a date to mcD'

Originally by: ZenTex

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Get used to BC's dishing out DPS like a wet noodle!

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Originally by: Hoshi

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Originally by: Razin

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Y
I am repeting myself as you don't seem to get it. Drone boats loose one high slot because it gains the power of drones. If it had the same number of highs as the others and drones as the same time it would be the same as giving all the other the BCs the drone space (and later bandwidth) as the myrm. Of course that would be just as wrong.

And still seems to miss the fact that you will actually have room for several drone waves so killing drones is just going to be a mission in futility.

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This is correct.

Killing drones is going to become a pointless and obsolete tactic, basically.

Originally by: benzss

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Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn

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Originally by: benzss

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Edited by: benzss on 11/09/2007 18:04:26
Edited by: benzss on 11/09/2007 18:03:58

Originally by: Cynical Attitude

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Quote:

---

IMO it should, because battlecruisers have always had balancing issues due to being almost as large sig radius wise as a battleship, but only being able to fit medium (cruiser) sized modules. Destroyers suffer some of the same problems.

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So the Myrm is unique among BCs in being able to bring to bear BS class weapons, which is why it doesn't need a nerf?

I'm so not following your logic.

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Follow this logic.

Sure, the Myrmidon can use BS class weaponry (unlike other ships of its class)... but think about it: the Myrmidon *does* have high DPS and it *does* have BS class weaponry, but unlike other battlecruisers - Drake, Hurricane, whatever - it can have its DPS severely dented by a smartbomb or two. Normally for other drone ships this isn't a problem - a Vexor can field an extra two medium drones and a Dominix has a huge drone bay anyway, so it can send another wave. But, once you've killed a Myrm's single wave of hard-hitting drones, it has very, very few offensive capabilities, if any at all.

That's the balance right there... the lack of any spares whatsoever already has the Myrmidon's primary weapon well-balanced. It doesn't really need changing.

The only reason people ***** and moan about Myrms being overpowered in PvP is because they haven't learned how to beat it; trust me, there are some good Hurricane pilots out there who know how to kick a Myrm's ass. And nobody's bleating about needing to nerf Hurricanes.

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and what happens when the myrm pilot gets a clue, and simply scoups and redeploys his heavys, now with full shield again?

incoming myrm nerf was obvious. Really only a question of when, and I am surprised it took this long. as for the Eos, Eos should not outdamage the astarte, plain and simple.

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Continually scooping drones makes the amount of damage they do drop somewhat...

And anyway, you're assuming a competent pilot. In the same way I don't think a Hurricane/Vaga/Any Quick-ish Ship pilot will come and park his ship nice and close so I can web him and drone him to death. No, I expect he/she to stay outside web range and pull my drones out far enough so that rescooping becomes rather more difficult, as they become more and more damaged in the process (heavies do not take long to drop). Or, indeed, that I do not deploy my drones at all for fear they will be shot to pieces, hence rendering me toothless until I get close; and if the pilot has a brain, I won't.

etc

The possibilities are endless.

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Originally by: Hyakuchan

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The general mood being that people ASSUME that CCP will use the opportunity of instituting a new system to also slice down the Myrmi's selling point.

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Originally by: Mavia Caledon

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Originally by: ZenTex

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Get used to BC's dishing out DPS like a wet noodle!

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/me looks out of her Drake ship, what was that?
/me shoots 20th volley to kill that BS spawn

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Originally by: Chromakey Dreamcoat

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can't wait until those overpowered solopwnmobiles myrm, ishtar, eos get nerfed... good riddance.

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Originally by: Derrios

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Nerfing a Command ship that is supposed to be a dedicated drone boat is clearly the most intelligent thing ever. Might as well change it's bonus to -50m3 per level of drone bay. Otherwise WTF is it on there for. I'm sorry if other people have to QQ about Gallente dps, but thats what this race is. It's not like the Eos has the same hp/dmg bonus as the ishtar/domi.

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Originally by: Jon Engel

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Originally by: Chromakey Dreamcoat

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can't wait until those overpowered solopwnmobiles myrm, ishtar, eos get nerfed... good riddance.

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So then we can have another Hac or Bc that gets nerfed then youll ***** about that when they get to one you can fly.

This wont balance anything. It only makes a single race's ships almost crap for pvp.

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Originally by: CCP Hammer

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Specific balance changes can be discussed ad nauseam in the resulting forum thread based on not only the upcoming blog but also your testing on SISI. Like I said before we aren't doing this just to nerf you. I'm sure you will all agree it stands to reason that having balanced ships is better than having one ship that is far better than all other other ships in it's class.

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Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto

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Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad

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Drone ships on principle should not out-damage a blaster ship because while you can easily get drones out to 45km with minimal skills and no modules, blasters not only have to deal with optimal ranges of a few km

---

Oh FFS. Do you have any idea how long it takes for heavy drones to go 45km? Long enough for you to spam them to death with your launchers. Any drone pilot that lets his drones get that far away from him is first going to lose his drones, and then his ship.

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Originally by: CCP Hammer

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Originally by: Hllaxiu

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Edited by: Hllaxiu on 11/09/2007 01:09:27
Basically its a balancing factor for the Arbitrator Hull, Vexor, and Myrmidon. Lets say you only want these two ships to field medium drones. That means that you can realistically have a maximum drone bay of 75m3. This leaves no room for spares - dedicated heavy drone carriers however do get room for spares. If 50m3 of drone bandwidth is assigned to the above ships, their drone bays can be increased without turning them into heavy drone carriers (Ishtar, Dominix).

The Mymridon and Eos are the ships, if any, to receive a nerf out of this change - I expect the nonIshtar cruiser based drone boats to be boosted quite a bit with this change, as they will be able to carry spares now. This will also allow the Myrmidon to be rebalanced against medium drones. Good thing in my opinion.

I realize that the blog said "number of drones" but I'm betting that this is how things are going to end up, one way or another (perhaps a conversion factor between light/medium/heavy drones).

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This is fairly spot on. Expect a dev blog about this from the relevant dev before the patch hits. We're not doing this to try and nerf people.

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Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad

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Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto

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Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad

---

Drone ships on principle should not out-damage a blaster ship because while you can easily get drones out to 45km with minimal skills and no modules, blasters not only have to deal with optimal ranges of a few km

---

Oh FFS. Do you have any idea how long it takes for heavy drones to go 45km? Long enough for you to spam them to death with your launchers. Any drone pilot that lets his drones get that far away from him is first going to lose his drones, and then his ship.

---

But the fact remains that drones are capable of these ranges, whereas blasters have no reach beyond about 10km.

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Originally by: Hllaxiu

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By "rebalanced" against medium drones, I mean change the ship completely. With the original 100m3 drone bay, this ship was probably intended to be a larger version of the Vexor. I bet that in some internal builds it had the same bonuses as a Vexor. The problem with 100m3 though is that people will invariably fit 4 heavies, so you can't balance the rest of the ship against the dps of 5 medium drones. After testing on SISI, the ship was changed so that it would be a "single shot" Dominix/Ishtar. This is kinda disappointing in my opinion.

Now, heres what I would do to the Myrmidon. Drop the tanking bonus, add a medium hybrid bonus, 6 turrets, 200m3 drone bay, and bandwidth for 5 medium drones. A ship could be balanced along these principles with the bandwidth change, and I think it'd make it stand out amongst the other Gallente drone ships.

... One last thing: If this post is also pretty much spot on, I'll send y'all my resume and co-op rotation plan.

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Quote:

---

Myrmidon:
Drone Bay: 175m3
Drone Bandwidth: 150 TPS
(allowing control for three heavy drones simultaneously, leading to a more balanced ship. Alternatively two heavy drones, two medium drones, and one light drone. Also gives more space for spares)

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Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin

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1) I'd actually fit 3 heavies and 2 meds. Same DPS in more components to shoot down :)

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Originally by: Bellum Eternus

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Originally by: CCP Hammer

---

Specific balance changes can be discussed ad nauseam in the resulting forum thread based on not only the upcoming blog but also your testing on SISI. Like I said before we aren't doing this just to nerf you. I'm sure you will all agree it stands to reason that having balanced ships is better than having one ship that is far better than all other other ships in it's class.

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LOL. Hammer has just said (very clearly): We're nerfing the Myrmidon and the Eos.

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Originally by: Cagot

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If you were to restrict the Myrmidon to 5 medium drones, it wouldn't matter much that you've increased the drone bay: you can already fit 12.5 medium drones in the current drone bay, which is plenty of replacements if you're careless enough to keep getting them killed. Having 25 HH2's in the bay isn't much different from having 12 of them in most circumstances.

Further, if the DPS is going to be nerfed down to mediums, the Myrmidon isn't going to be nearly as good at lvl 4 missions. I'm sure I'm not the only occasional missioner who would be sad.

I would like to believe that CCP won't nerf the Myrmidon this brutally. What's the point of designing the best-looking ship in the game if nobody will want to fly it?

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Quote:

---

If you were to restrict the Myrmidon down to 5 medium drones instead of 4 hvy, you will reduce it to damage equivalent to about that of a Vexor with 5 mediums due to the Myrmidon's lack of a gun bonus.

That's right, kiddies! For 32m isk - only 28m more than your paltry Vexor - you can get a shiny new BC with a bigger tank! ... that's slower, less agile, has a huge sig radius, and does the same damage as your Vexor. But it can hold more spares (at 1m per)!!!

I guess I should invest in Brutix stocks now. I assume that if CCP is dumb enough to call that 'balance' that prices will spike due to the need for a BC that can do BC-class damage with a tank still there. Right now you save about 15-ish m isk getting a Brutix, too.

Also, since someone said Nerf the Ishtar, someone here PLEASE tell me what the point of an Ishtar limited to medium drones would be. 3 turret hardpoints? Hard-to-use fitting reqt's? A huge drone bay as it is? Take it to mediums and you're stuck with a 100m isk Vexor with a high Kin/Therm resist and a few extra slots you're gonna have a helluva time fitting anyways that is cool because it can fly around with 30+ Hammerhead IIs. Yeah. Most bestest ship evar.

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Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin

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If you were to restrict the Myrmidon down to 5 medium drones instead of 4 hvy, you will reduce it to damage equivalent to about that of a Vexor with 5 mediums due to the Myrmidon's lack of a gun bonus.

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Originally by: Felysta Sandorn

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Looking at the dev input, the blog, and everyone's input, I think this looks like a great idea... The way I see it is as follows:

Ships will all get a drone bay buff, perhaps up to double on smaller drone bays, and perhaps 1.5x on larger drone bays. The drone bandwidth will only let you use the un-buffed drone bay size though.

I'm guessing bandwidth would be measured in something like terrabits per second (TPS), where drone sizes would take different amounts of bandwidth, eg:
Light Drone: 10 TPS
Medium Drone: 20 TPS
Heavy Drone: 50 TPS

Taking the Drake as an example, the way I see it post patch:
Drone Bay: 50m3
Drone Bandwidth: 50 TPS

This means that you can not put 10 light drones in the bay rather than 5, but you can still only use 5 at a time. Alternatively you could put in a mix of lights and mediums and fly 2 meds and 1 light at a time. Basically, I see it working exactly the same as it does at the moment, but allows all ships with small bays to have spare drones. The bandwidth would basically determine what size of drone that ship is meant to use. This balances the overpowered Myrmidon and Eos, and gives underpowered drone boats (arbitrator, vexor, pilgrim) a little more flexibility, by giving spare drones. Some further examples for these ships to how I see this being implemented:

Arbitrator:
Drone Bay: 100m3
Drone Bandwidth: 100 TPS
(allowing for control of 5 medium drones, pretty much identical to how it is now, but with space in the bay for spares, perhaps 7 meds and 6 lights)

Myrmidon:
Drone Bay: 175m3
Drone Bandwidth: 150 TPS
(allowing control for three heavy drones simultaneously, leading to a more balanced ship. Alternatively two heavy drones, two medium drones, and one light drone. Also gives more space for spares)

Eos:
Drone Bay: 75m3 (+75m3 per Command Ship Level)
Drone Bandwidth: 100 TPS (+30 TPS per Command Ship Level)
(allowing for 150m3 and 130 TPS at Command Ship 1, up to 450m3 and 250 TPS at Command Ship Level 5, which equates to being able to control 5 heavy drones at level 5, 4 heavies and 1 light at level 4, and down. Not really a nerf to highly skilled pilots, but balances the ship with the rest of the command ships for people without Command Ship 5. Also gives a hell of a lot of space for spare drones, and extra loadouts (ie armour bots) for longer journeys)

You know what... I'm loving this idea already... What does a guy have to do to get a job in CCP around here?

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Originally by: Felysta Sandorn

---

Looking at the dev input, the blog, and everyone's input, I think this looks like a great idea... The way I see it is as follows:

Ships will all get a drone bay buff, perhaps up to double on smaller drone bays, and perhaps 1.5x on larger drone bays. The drone bandwidth will only let you use the un-buffed drone bay size though.

I'm guessing bandwidth would be measured in something like terrabits per second (TPS), where drone sizes would take different amounts of bandwidth, eg:
Light Drone: 10 TPS
Medium Drone: 20 TPS
Heavy Drone: 50 TPS

Taking the Drake as an example, the way I see it post patch:
Drone Bay: 50m3
Drone Bandwidth: 50 TPS

This means that you can not put 10 light drones in the bay rather than 5, but you can still only use 5 at a time. Alternatively you could put in a mix of lights and mediums and fly 2 meds and 1 light at a time. Basically, I see it working exactly the same as it does at the moment, but allows all ships with small bays to have spare drones. The bandwidth would basically determine what size of drone that ship is meant to use. This balances the overpowered Myrmidon and Eos, and gives underpowered drone boats (arbitrator, vexor, pilgrim) a little more flexibility, by giving spare drones. Some further examples for these ships to how I see this being implemented:

Arbitrator:
Drone Bay: 100m3
Drone Bandwidth: 100 TPS
(allowing for control of 5 medium drones, pretty much identical to how it is now, but with space in the bay for spares, perhaps 7 meds and 6 lights)

Myrmidon:
Drone Bay: 175m3
Drone Bandwidth: 150 TPS
(allowing control for three heavy drones simultaneously, leading to a more balanced ship. Alternatively two heavy drones, two medium drones, and one light drone. Also gives more space for spares)

Eos:
Drone Bay: 75m3 (+75m3 per Command Ship Level)
Drone Bandwidth: 100 TPS (+30 TPS per Command Ship Level)
(allowing for 150m3 and 130 TPS at Command Ship 1, up to 450m3 and 250 TPS at Command Ship Level 5, which equates to being able to control 5 heavy drones at level 5, 4 heavies and 1 light at level 4, and down. Not really a nerf to highly skilled pilots, but balances the ship with the rest of the command ships for people without Command Ship 5. Also gives a hell of a lot of space for spare drones, and extra loadouts (ie armour bots) for longer journeys)

You know what... I'm loving this idea already... What does a guy have to do to get a job in CCP around here?

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Originally by: Omeega

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diplomacy is f1, f2, f3, really...

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Quote:

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"Guns are fine, boost players"

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Quote:

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"Players are fine, boost guns"

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Originally by: ZenTex

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Gallente starship pilots, welcome to the beginning "Gallente are the suck" era.
Better train Amarr now as they will clearly be the next FOTM.

On a more serious note, I hardly grasp what these changes will bring, and reading the posts here, I'm not the only one.

Let's await the cheanges, then whine.

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Originally by: Excesse

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Well the obvious point to make is that the drone ships will probably see their per-level drone bay size bonus change to a bandwidth bonus.

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◕◡◕

Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: Tamia Clant

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Ahh, so it's a nerf to drone-ships coming up then? I sense much whineage on the forums!

---

Pretty much. This does fix the issue with relaunching and rescooping abandoned drones to get more drones active than your bay can hold. The only other thing this would do is let CCP restrict ships to their size class of drone. Perhaps Vexors and Myrmidons will be restricted to medium drones. That's sure to cause some upset.

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Originally by: Cynical Attitude

---

Quote:

---

IMO it should, because battlecruisers have always had balancing issues due to being almost as large sig radius wise as a battleship, but only being able to fit medium (cruiser) sized modules. Destroyers suffer some of the same problems.

---

So the Myrm is unique among BCs in being able to bring to bear BS class weapons, which is why it doesn't need a nerf?

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Originally by: Spenz

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Edited by: Spenz on 12/09/2007 17:41:51

I understand nerfing the Myrmidon because of its drone bonus, but the Eos?

The ONLY thing going for the Eos is its above average DPS. It has a below average tank and the WORST warfare link bonus you can get. It is a good combat command ship but a horrid fleet command ship, which is why it should remain unchanged.

You dont use a command ship to provide logistics drones, you use a logistics ship. You dont use one to provide EWAR drones, you use an ewar ship.

A run-down of the racial FCS:

Minmatar have a fast, mid-ranged fleet command ship with a good active tank, average dps, and a very useful warfare link bonus.

The Caldari have a long range fleet command ship with inferior dps, superior range, superior passive tank, and a semi-useful warfare link bonus.

The amarr have a mid-range fleet command ship with below-average dps, a supreme active tank, and a very useful warfare link bonus.

The gallente have a very short range fleet command ship with superior dps, inferior active tank, and a useless warfare link bonus.

You say this nerf will regulate the eos back to its rightful duty. Well it stinks at its rightful duty.

It has neither the range nor the dps AT RANGE (drones take a long time to fly to battle and fleet battles dont occur at 5 km for the blasters to be of any use, not to mention its pg is way too low to even think of a viable warfare link/railgun setup) that the vulture and Claymore have, nor the speed to get away like the claymore.

It lacks the tank to survive like the vulture, claymore, and damnation, and its warfare link bonus is completely useless for anything meaningful (claymore is unbeatable for small-medium gang warfare and vulture/damnation take the true fleet command roles).

So...where does that leave the eos? Well it obviously sucks at everything in its role, but its vicious dps when in range makes up for its pitfalls. It balances itself out that way.

Change Myrmidon, but leave the Eos or change its bonuses.

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Originally by: CCP Prism X

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You wont have any LPs. You need LPs with said Corp and like I said I just nuked your LPs.

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Originally by: Miss KillSome

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How can i fend from faster and more resiliant Sleip now?

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Originally by: Beowulf Scheafer

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Well Gallante ships have ruled the PvP roost for a long ol' while. Now it's gonna be some other race's turn for a bit.

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lol, dream on...

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Originally by: Atomic Atty

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Originally by: William Alex

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Originally by: bsspewer

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does this mean motherships will be able to deploy 20 fighters or 500 light hobgoblins?

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hehehe 500 lights ftw!!! Motherships doing 10kdps would be sweeeet

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Yeah or disco BS insta-poping all those within a smartbomb cycle.

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Originally by: Van Steiza

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Wow Nice one on this so now myrm and ships like Eos are going to get Bumfagged to.


Also i agree with the other guy a few posts back who was telling everyone to STFU saying that Heavy drones are battleship weapons.

STFU

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Originally by: Spenz

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Edited by: Spenz on 12/09/2007 17:41:51

I understand nerfing the Myrmidon because of its drone bonus, but the Eos?

The ONLY thing going for the Eos is its above average DPS. It has a below average tank and the WORST warfare link bonus you can get. It is a good combat command ship but a horrid fleet command ship, which is why it should remain unchanged.

You dont use a command ship to provide logistics drones, you use a logistics ship. You dont use one to provide EWAR drones, you use an ewar ship.

A run-down of the racial FCS:

Minmatar have a fast, mid-ranged fleet command ship with a good active tank, average dps, and a very useful warfare link bonus.

The Caldari have a long range fleet command ship with inferior dps, superior range, superior passive tank, and a semi-useful warfare link bonus.

The amarr have a mid-range fleet command ship with below-average dps, a supreme active tank, and a very useful warfare link bonus.

The gallente have a very short range fleet command ship with superior dps, inferior active tank, and a useless warfare link bonus.

You say this nerf will regulate the eos back to its rightful duty. Well it stinks at its rightful duty.

It has neither the range nor the dps AT RANGE (drones take a long time to fly to battle and fleet battles dont occur at 5 km for the blasters to be of any use, not to mention its pg is way too low to even think of a viable warfare link/railgun setup) that the vulture and Claymore have, nor the speed to get away like the claymore.

It lacks the tank to survive like the vulture, claymore, and damnation, and its warfare link bonus is completely useless for anything meaningful (claymore is unbeatable for small-medium gang warfare and vulture/damnation take the true fleet command roles).

So...where does that leave the eos? Well it obviously sucks at everything in its role, but its vicious dps when in range makes up for its pitfalls. It balances itself out that way.

Change Myrmidon, but leave the Eos or change its bonuses.

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Originally by: cal nereus

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Sounds awesome. I always was irritated that my Myrmidon was doing as much, if not more, damage than my Dominix.

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Originally by: Manus Stuprare

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I think most sensible people would agree this is not a huge nerf. While the maximum damage would be decreased by, at most (if you don't fit any guns) 20%, this would be balanced by the potential for greater versatility, as drones of different types could be carried and used for different situations.

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Originally by: CptEav1s

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Ok, I've read a few posts on this subject and I would like an official CCP statement on Drone Bandwidth.

From what I've read it seems to limit your drones launch ability based on activity in the system or server or something.

To this end I will try not to jump to conclusions but if this were the case then. Basically buddied with the recent NOS nerf it would be the "icing on the cake" in other words it would completely destroy alot of Gallente ships as well and the Amarr Recons.

And if thats the case then I believe alot of people would be ****ed, excluding the Caldari who don't use drones to hardly any extent. Even the Minmatar would be mildly affected with the Typhoon.

Again I am trying not to jump to conclusions, but I have already posted on my frustration with the NOS nerf, which I am now being able to deal with, but I can officially say that I would quit if this were what Drone Bandwidth was. I mean this game is really really fun but to say the least I'm tired of being jerked around. I train for NOS and it gets nerfed... I train for Drones and Drone Ships and it looks like they're gonna be nerfed as well

Anyway thats my 2 isk
Cheers
- CptEav1s

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Quote:

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From what I've read it seems to limit your drones launch ability based on activity in the system or server or something.

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Originally by: Gypsio III

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Quote:

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From what I've read it seems to limit your drones launch ability based on activity in the system or server or something.

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Oh dear.

Btw, I bet that training for Nos was tough...

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Originally by: Jeximo

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I also like how your cat only managed to hit the enter button when he/she jumped on your keyboard.

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Originally by: Albert O'Balsam

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Well I fear the flame, but I actually think this is a good idea. In general most ships will have a bigger drone bay offering more versatility.

Theres bound to be a few loosers and this time its Gallente - but isnt it about time they had a nerf. I understand completely that drones are not invincible - but being able to wield 5 BS class weapons from a BC is surely unbalanced.

I for one would welcome not being able to launch 5 heavies balanced against more versatility through a larger drone bay. I have to say however that I hope care is going to be given to dishing out bandwidth requirements of drones.

Hopefully non-combat drones will have a smaller bandwidth than their combat counterparts for example.

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