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Cippalippus Primus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.21 10:51:00 - [211] Good thing that you agree. In any case, this is a time of sacrifices for the US taxpayer because it's better to pay your debt now with low interest rates rather than waiting for a high inflaxion period, in which case USA would have some serious troubles. Also, not to **** in your yard, but a weak dollar doesn't help much since USA started its deindustrialization process decades ago, swinging the commercial balance to an import heavy country.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.21 10:51:00 - [212] Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: Malcanis What's conservative about it? The large defense budget / legislate morality part. Rampant spending, insane governmental growth, throwing the Constitution out the window... not so much. Actual Conservatives might consider adhering to the "no foreign entanglements" thing... CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Cornucopian Gallente Orias Fringe Enterprises United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.21 10:52:00 - [213] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Jago Kain Edited by: Jago Kain on 20/09/2007 15:25:06 Originally by: Death Kill The US needs a conservative government, the current administration is spending money like a drunken sailor. Are you trying to tell us that the current US govt. is not conservative? Surely that's on a par with describing {well known WWII german guy that the filter doesn't like} as a wishy-washy liberal. What's conservative about it? whats progressive about it? Really, do tell. AFAIK your southern states would still love to lynch every */black/arab person in the US. "We dunt take kindly to yer kind round hee-ur!" or every politician still starting a speech with reference to god? Really, where is the progressiveness? I'm intrigued on your opinion here malcanis. ----------------------------------------------- "post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer." Originally by:** Royaldo complete win by Cornucopian!
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.09.21 10:53:00 - [214] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 21/09/2007 10:49:06 Originally by: Cippalippus Primus Originally by: DarkMatter Good! We shall see who has the last laugh... I would advise you to not hold your breath as you wait for our demise... With this trend, i give USA another 10 years before complete bankrupcy. All your countries will give us foreign aid until we're back on our feet. You may not want to, but you (your governments that is) will, and you know it... So what's worse? Seeing us climb out of the crater ourselves, or you bailing us out? I guess take your pick... It's most likely whoever is the nest president, will widely swing the pendulum the other way as far as spending. Whether Democrat or Republican. So it's a given this trend will not continue at it's current rate. I of course am hoping for a fiscally conservative Republican to win the election... But unfortunately it will be Hillary... So welfare for poor people is bad, but welfare for rich countries is good...? I'm not saying it's good or bad, just saying that's what would happen... Western nation would not let a fellow Democratic nation fall into chaos. We would not allow it to happen to France or Britain, and they would not allow it to happen to us. No matter how much the people of each country despise one another... My Current Project
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.09.21 10:54:00 - [215] Originally by: Cippalippus Primus Good thing that you agree. In any case, this is a time of sacrifices for the US taxpayer because it's better to pay your debt now with low interest rates rather than waiting for a high inflaxion period, in which case USA would have some serious troubles. Also, not to **** in your yard, but a weak dollar doesn't help much since USA started its deindustrialization process decades ago, swinging the commercial balance to an import heavy country. Yes, when the dollar was strong... Doesn't mean it can't swing back the other way. It's not like we forgot how to manufacture... My Current Project
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.21 10:57:00 - [216] Originally by: DarkMatter Yes, when the dollar was strong... Doesn't mean it can't swing back the other way. It's not like we forgot how to manufacture... Absolutely impossible for us to compete as a primary manufacturing nation. Not and maintain our standard of living.
Cippalippus Primus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.21 10:57:00 - [217] Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Cippalippus Primus Good thing that you agree. In any case, this is a time of sacrifices for the US taxpayer because it's better to pay your debt now with low interest rates rather than waiting for a high inflaxion period, in which case USA would have some serious troubles. Also, not to **** in your yard, but a weak dollar doesn't help much since USA started its deindustrialization process decades ago, swinging the commercial balance to an import heavy country. Yes, when the dollar was strong... Doesn't mean it can't swing back the other way. It's not like we forgot how to manufacture... Unfortunately USA (and Europe) have indeed forgot how to manufacture on a mass scale; just take a look around and tell me how many things we have that are made in China/India/Durka Durkastan. Also, this isn't a time of growing world economy and US products would be too expensive for any unsaturated (read: third world) market. Third party? No need. You have a debt to pay back and it needs to be paid, doesn't matter if the next president is Democratic or (lol impossible) Republican. A third party would have the same problems.
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.09.21 11:01:00 - [218] Originally by: Cippalippus Primus Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Cippalippus Primus Good thing that you agree. In any case, this is a time of sacrifices for the US taxpayer because it's better to pay your debt now with low interest rates rather than waiting for a high inflaxion period, in which case USA would have some serious troubles. Also, not to **** in your yard, but a weak dollar doesn't help much since USA started its deindustrialization process decades ago, swinging the commercial balance to an import heavy country. Yes, when the dollar was strong... Doesn't mean it can't swing back the other way. It's not like we forgot how to manufacture... Unfortunately USA (and Europe) have indeed forgot how to manufacture on a mass scale; just take a look around and tell me how many things we have that are made in China/India/Durka Durkastan. Also, this isn't a time of growing world economy and US products would be too expensive for any unsaturated (read: third world) market. Third party? No need. You have a debt to pay back and it needs to be paid, doesn't matter if the next president is Democratic or (lol impossible) Republican. A third party would have the same problems. No, because all we do is flip flop. We need a party that truly represents the middle class in this country. It's unfortunate voters don't have the balls to accomplish this, since most of us are middle class... Too many fall prey to the scare tactics used by both parties... The only way we can bring about change is by sending congress a message, and voting out incumbents regardless of party over and over again until they f'ing understand... But the American voters are just not savvy enough I'm afraid... My Current Project
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.21 11:02:00 - [219] Originally by: Cippalippus Primus Unfortunately USA (and Europe) have indeed forgot how to manufacture on a mass scale; just take a look around and tell me how many things we have that are made in China/India/Durka Durkastan. Also, this isn't a time of growing world economy and US products would be too expensive for any unsaturated (read: third world) market. True that - a reason perhaps why EU/NAFTA should make it cheaper to manufacture at home for a home market as opposed to imports. I bet even the Japanese could find a way to make it cheaper to manufacture products in Japan and export to the world even then. Originally by: CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Cornucopian Gallente Orias Fringe Enterprises United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.21 11:24:00 - [220] Originally by: Cippalippus Primus Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Cippalippus Primus Good thing that you agree. In any case, this is a time of sacrifices for the US taxpayer because it's better to pay your debt now with low interest rates rather than waiting for a high inflaxion period, in which case USA would have some serious troubles. Also, not to ** in your yard, but a weak dollar doesn't help much since USA started its deindustrialization process decades ago, swinging the commercial balance to an import heavy country. Yes, when the dollar was strong... Doesn't mean it can't swing back the other way. It's not like we forgot how to manufacture... Unfortunately USA (and Europe) have indeed forgot how to manufacture on a mass scale; just take a look around and tell me how many things we have that are made in China/India/Durka Durkastan. Also, this isn't a time of growing world economy and US products would be too expensive for any unsaturated (read: third world) market. Third party? No need. You have a debt to pay back and it needs to be paid, doesn't matter if the next president is Democratic or (lol impossible) Republican. A third party would have the same problems. Nobody forgot how to manufacture, its just that china/india/s america etc. has cheap labor. Our corps paid and instructed nationals there to set up factories. Once China and India start developing to an extent that THEY dont want to manufacture stuff out of cost issues anymore, thats when they will start paying africa to do it. China is already heavily investing in infrastructure et al. Also many European countries and car manufacturers are starting to outsource to the african continent. The US will always keep a certain part of its manufacturing jobs, simply because of it's size. The number is still dropping rapidly though, leading to a lot people screaming, here it comes, : DEY TUK AR JUUUUUBZ! Us will be alright though, they just need to increase their services sector a little to compensate for outsourcing. ----------------------------------------------- "post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer." Originally by:** Royaldo complete win by Cornucopian!
Rialtor Amarr Yarrrateers	Posted - 2007.09.21 13:52:00 - [221] ok I see alot of arguement here about big or small government, both systems can work. Both solutions have it's flaws, there's no such thing as a perfect system. No one is really arguing that Big government cannot work, there's plenty of big governments in the world, the issue is small government can work just as well and those are the principles in which this nation was founded. And on the issue of outsourcing, I fully support globalization. Not all jobs get outsourced, yes outsourcing lowers your operating costs due to cheaper labor. But it boosts your cost of management, hauling, training, multi-lingual negiotiations. There's alot of hidden costs associated with outscourcing, so a business must decide given all their options what's the best choice for them. Even with America's outsourcing our economy has been increasing and the job market is plentiful, even in the IT world (It's not all going to India). And the government should take a long hard look at why Car manufacturers close down factories here and open it in Canada, it might have something to do with incompetent legislation. The American economy is making a strong recovery after the .com bubble bursted, but the new issue is excessive overspending. Personally I don't really feel that it's hard to do. The real issue is that no administration has ever made a significant cut to government because we always elect either Democrats (who want more government programs), or politics as usual republicans. A vast majority of americans are being spoonfed what to think by pundit programming on TV.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.21 17:19:00 - [222] see this is why the canadian dollar rocks, you americans put too much value on bickering 1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo.
Arron S Gallente Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.09.21 17:30:00 - [223] The Torys ran up a 5 billion dollar dept here in Ontario, then did not tell anyone that they did, so the next party would get stuck with it, so they can use it against that party in the next election. I remember that ragen drove the US Economy into in ground back in the 80's.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.21 17:33:00 - [224] Edited by: Tortun Nahme on 21/09/2007 17:33:02 hahaha the king of Alberta was finally deposed, soon the tory's reign of terror will end forever 1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo.
Cippalippus Primus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.21 17:56:00 - [225] Originally by: Cornucopian Originally by: Cippalippus Primus Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Cippalippus Primus Good thing that you agree. In any case, this is a time of sacrifices for the US taxpayer because it's better to pay your debt now with low interest rates rather than waiting for a high inflaxion period, in which case USA would have some serious troubles. Also, not to **** in your yard, but a weak dollar doesn't help much since USA started its deindustrialization process decades ago, swinging the commercial balance to an import heavy country. Yes, when the dollar was strong... Doesn't mean it can't swing back the other way. It's not like we forgot how to manufacture... Unfortunately USA (and Europe) have indeed forgot how to manufacture on a mass scale; just take a look around and tell me how many things we have that are made in China/India/Durka Durkastan. Also, this isn't a time of growing world economy and US products would be too expensive for any unsaturated (read: third world) market. Third party? No need. You have a debt to pay back and it needs to be paid, doesn't matter if the next president is Democratic or (lol impossible) Republican. A third party would have the same problems. Nobody forgot how to manufacture, its just that china/india/s america etc. has cheap labor. Our corps paid and instructed nationals there to set up factories. Once China and India start developing to an extent that THEY dont want to manufacture stuff out of cost issues anymore, thats when they will start paying africa to do it. China is already heavily investing in infrastructure et al. Also many European countries and car manufacturers are starting to outsource to the african continent. The US will always keep a certain part of its manufacturing jobs, simply because of it's size. The number is still dropping rapidly though, leading to a lot people screaming, here it comes, : DEY TUK AR JUUUUUBZ! Us will be alright though, they just need to increase their services sector a little to compensate for outsourcing. Ok, I'll be brief. I partly agree with this post but you forgot that: 1) India and China are still far away from being developed and it will probably take at least 20 years before they reach the 1st world' level of wealth. That is, assuming that their growth keeps going on at this pace, which is unrealistic. 2) Africa poses a lot of security and logistical problems and is at the moment NOT an alternative to Asia and South America for cheap manufacturing industries. 3) At this point, we can't simply go back to an old concept of industrialization. Western world is simply too far ahead.
Saladin Minmatar Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.21 18:43:00 - [226] As someone who travels often, its times like this that make me think that moving to the US was a mistake. I enjoyed taking time off and heading to Canada when the exchange rate was $1.60, and still continued to do so, but I have had to scale back recently. I will say I will regret not taking that long tour through several european countries back when the exchange rate was 70 cents= 1 Euro. I remember back in those years our CEO would constantly blame a strong dollar for poor sales figures. Now the dollar is the weakest its ever been, the complaint is about a weak economy and so on. I think the USD will make a bounce back, but it would be before 2-3 years after the current president leaves. Thanks to the mods for keeping this topic open despite the obvious political theme. The issue is economical more than anything. ----
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.09.21 18:47:00 - [227] Quote: As someone who travels often, its times like this that make me think that moving to the US was a mistake. Where are you originally from? My Current Project
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.21 18:49:00 - [228] Edited by: Thanos Draicon on 21/09/2007 18:49:06 Originally by: DarkMatter No, because all we do is flip flop. We need a party that truly represents the middle class in this country. It's unfortunate voters don't have the balls to accomplish this, since most of us are middle class... Too many fall prey to the scare tactics used by both parties... The only way we can bring about change is by sending congress a message, and voting out incumbents regardless of party over and over again until they f'ing understand... But the American voters are just not savvy enough I'm afraid... I very much like how you think DarkMatter - you seem to very progressive and a real conservative, not these amoral neo-cons the White House is filled with nowadays. The United States desperately needs a third party.
Arron S Gallente Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.09.21 19:12:00 - [229] Edited by: Arron S on 21/09/2007 19:13:35 Also, the stereotypes about Canadians being Drunken beer drinkers, who chain smoke, and are obsessed with hockey is not a Stereotype, its true. there are only a few accepts who do not fit to this sterotype, one of whom happens to be me.. @ Darkmatter, sadly even when you have 3-4 partys, you get the same BS.
Rialtor Amarr Yarrrateers	Posted - 2007.09.21 19:20:00 - [230] I think it has little to do with Party, and more to do with diveristy of thought. I don't know that most candidates are that diverse. The few exceptions would be Ralph Nader, Ron Paul, Dennis Kunnich. These candidates train of thought seem to be rather different than the status quo in washington right now. Don't judge republicans by bush, and don't judge the democrats like hillary. Each party has a handful of people with some good ideas, but their position is not reinforced due to politics as usual in washington. It's sad none of those people can ever really be president. While Kunnich is big government, he's big government in the right way. I'm opposed to big Government, so I lean towards Ron Paul.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.09.21 19:46:00 - [231] Originally by: Tortun Nahme Edited by: Tortun Nahme on 21/09/2007 17:33:02 hahaha the king of Alberta was finally deposed, soon the tory's reign of terror will end forever Why would you want the Tories out of power? Klein made our province the richest province in Canada. Just look at what the Liberal Party did down east with Chretein (I could never spell his name) and the whole sponsorship thing. As far as I'm concerned, any man who can get away with throwing a policy book at his subordinates and get away with it is pure awesome. Klein 4ever.
Arvald Caldari House of Tempers	Posted - 2007.09.21 20:18:00 - [232] Edited by: Arvald on 21/09/2007 20:18:25 nevermind ----------------------------------------------- ya cant stop the rokh and no i have not nor will i ever contribute anything constructive to your thread
Ceyth	Posted - 2007.09.21 21:43:00 - [233] Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker sadly while we as a people are great, the world doesnt see our people they see the bumbling idiot in the oval office. How can a "great people" chose the same "bumbling idiot" to lead the oval office twice..?
Taelech Caldari ViperCorp VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.21 22:09:00 - [234] As a typical American I welcome my Canadian bretheren to come south and spend your newly enriched C$! See the seven wonders of the US! Drink our odd beverages! Do anything, just stimulate our economy!!!one!!eleven No really, I less than three Canada. Taelech - Professor emeritus - Caldari Business Tribunal School of Law
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.21 22:20:00 - [235] Originally by: Ceyth How can a "great people" chose the same "bumbling idiot" to lead the oval office twice..? Our thoughts on Bush as only we can do it Originally by: CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.21 22:39:00 - [236] Originally by: Cornucopian Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Jago Kain Edited by: Jago Kain on 20/09/2007 15:25:06 Originally by: Death Kill The US needs a conservative government, the current administration is spending money like a drunken sailor. Are you trying to tell us that the current US govt. is not conservative? Surely that's on a par with describing {well known WWII german guy that the filter doesn't like} as a wishy-washy liberal. What's conservative about it? whats progressive about it? Really, do tell. AFAIK your southern states would still love to lynch every */black/arab person in the US. "We dunt take kindly to yer kind round hee-ur!" or every politician still starting a speech with reference to god? Really, where is the progressiveness? I'm intrigued on your opinion here malcanis. Curiousity is good. For a start you might be interested to learn that I'm English. The Bush administration is not a conservative administration. They came in to power with an agenda of radical change, which they have substantially enacted. "Conservative" is not the antonym of "Progressive". There's nothing 'conservative' about the huge expansion of state power and extent. There's nothing 'conservative' about a president who only declined to veto a single bill of the over 1800 "pork barrel" items, but refused to allow a bill to make it illegal for Federal or Military personnel to use torture. There's nothing 'conservative' about a sustained and co-ordinated assault on personal freedoms The word you're looking for is 'Regressive'. Every legal mechanism required for dictatorial rule is now already in place: non-oversighted surveillance, habeas corpus is gone, citizenship can be removed by fiat, the right to public dissent is effectively gone, the electoral process is heavily compromised with international election monitoring not accepted, torture in now an acceptable method of interrogation, and a president who has been quoted as describing the US Constitution as "just a piece of ***** paper". It's now simply a question of boiling the frog. That's not 'conservatism'. It's the counter-revolution. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.09.21 22:56:00 - [237] Quote: Every legal mechanism required for dictatorial rule is now already in place: non-oversighted surveillance, habeas corpus is gone, citizenship can be removed by fiat, the right to public dissent is effectively gone, the electoral process is heavily compromised with international election monitoring not accepted, torture in now an acceptable method of interrogation LOL, ok My Current Project
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.22 02:46:00 - [238] Originally by: DarkMatter Quote: Every legal mechanism required for dictatorial rule is now already in place: non-oversighted surveillance, habeas corpus is gone, citizenship can be removed by fiat, the right to public dissent is effectively gone, the electoral process is heavily compromised with international election monitoring not accepted, torture in now an acceptable method of interrogation LOL, ok He's spot-on. The only thing we lack is the snazzy uniforms. Germany = Fatherland. USSR = Motherland. America = Homeland. Wake up. America is no longer the land of the free, or the home of the brave.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.22 02:55:00 - [239] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: Tortun Nahme Edited by: Tortun Nahme on 21/09/2007 17:33:02 hahaha the king of Alberta was finally deposed, soon the tory's reign of terror will end forever Why would you want the Tories out of power? Klein made our province the richest province in Canada. Just look at what the Liberal Party did down east with Chretein (I could never spell his name) and the whole sponsorship thing. As far as I'm concerned, any man who can get away with throwing a policy book at his subordinates and get away with it is pure awesome. Klein 4ever. no Klien made us the only province that spends less than in makes, BC, Ontario, and Quebec, are all richer. We also have a far lower rated health care system than the MAJORITY of other provinces (BC has a better privitized system, Manitoba has a better gov'mnt run system, ontario meets both halfway) Cost of living VS Average income per family in Alberta is also lower. We need a change, the tories are stagnating and stale 1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.22 11:43:00 - [240] Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: DarkMatter Quote: Every legal mechanism required for dictatorial rule is now already in place: non-oversighted surveillance, habeas corpus is gone, citizenship can be removed by fiat, the right to public dissent is effectively gone, the electoral process is heavily compromised with international election monitoring not accepted, torture in now an acceptable method of interrogation LOL, ok He's spot-on. The only thing we lack is the snazzy uniforms. Germany = Fatherland. USSR = Motherland. America = Homeland. Wake up. America is no longer the land of the free, or the home of the brave. From an outside perspective it's true. We are getting a tad uncomfortable with the way the USA is going - how long till it decides that it wants North Sea oil, that we have WMD (we do ofc) and that we don't like the American government and it's money hungry corporations (also true). Originally by: CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.

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