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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Par Bobot
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:01:00 -
[1]
NO I HAVE NOT LOST ONE.
Honestly , every ship in game has the ability to try to protect itself except Freighters excluding shuttles . Pods are not a ship.
Give freighters 1-2 lows and 1-2 mids. It atleast gives them some sort of ability to proect themselves..You Devs are always stating changes are for balancing but freighters are not. You added the ability of them to drop loot but not defend themselves??? Where is the balance in that??I have nothing against suicide gankers but lets give a near bill capital ship some defences. I mean ITS A FREAKIN CAPITAL SHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Marcera
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:05:00 -
[2]
Quote: I mean ITS A FREAKIN CAPITAL SHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No it is not, does not need cap skill
As for to fix them, there is a thing called have ship defending it
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Thanos Draicon
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:09:00 -
[3]
This thread fails.
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Missy Saints
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:09:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Missy Saints on 24/09/2007 02:10:08
Originally by: Marcera
Quote: I mean ITS A FREAKIN CAPITAL SHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No it is not, does not need cap skill SKILL NO, but it useses Capital Components to make and requires Capital Production skill to make.
As for to fix them, there is a thing called have ship defending it
Not the point.. the ship was modded to drop loot but nothing to defend itself = unbalanced.
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Par Bobot
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:12:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Thanos Draicon This thread fails.
Exactly what I would expect from a pvp toon.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:12:00 -
[6]
pods were created to protect the pilot
yeah the "fix needed" argument fails
1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo. |
Alski
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:15:00 -
[7]
Nope, this is an MMO, get friends to help protect it. -
(combat) Patch belonging to CCP hits your drones, wrecking their liberty and freedom. |
Christari Zuborov
Amarr Ore Mongers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:16:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Missy Saints Edited by: Missy Saints on 24/09/2007 02:10:08
Originally by: Marcera
Quote: I mean ITS A FREAKIN CAPITAL SHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No it is not, does not need cap skill SKILL NO, but it useses Capital Components to make and requires Capital Production skill to make.
As for to fix them, there is a thing called have ship defending it
Not the point.. the ship was modded to drop loot but nothing to defend itself = unbalanced.
Regardless of whether it's balanced or not, making the mainstay of your argument as, "it was mod'd to drop loot", isn't a point to stand from. Everything drops loot in the game, so it's just as easy to argue that it was bugged and needed fixing.
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Vandalias
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:18:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Christari Zuborov Regardless of whether it's balanced or not, making the mainstay of your argument as, "it was mod'd to drop loot", isn't a point to stand from. Everything drops loot in the game, so it's just as easy to argue that it was bugged and needed fixing.
Every ship in game with the exception of freighters and shuttles have slots to put up some kind of defense. Are freighters and shuttles therefore bugged and in need of a fix?
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:20:00 -
[10]
dont forget pods
my pod needs more high slots
1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo. |
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Alski
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:25:00 -
[11]
I move blueprints in my shuttle. I demand my shuttle gets some slots, some gun mounts, and a target painting bonus -
(combat) Patch belonging to CCP hits your drones, wrecking their liberty and freedom. |
Par Bobot
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:27:00 -
[12]
Regardless of whether it's balanced or not, making the mainstay of your argument as, "it was mod'd to drop loot", isn't a point to stand from. Everything drops loot in the game, so it's just as easy to argue that it was bugged and needed fixing.
Yes the devs took a while til they got Freighters to drop loot .. Thats not the point , the point is this ship is nerfed and needs balance. As you state everything drops loot but is able to defend itself in some way even shuttles due to speed and warp alignment. But when you go out in your pvp, mission , or whatever ship it has some sort of offence and defence.. You dont go in corp chat "hey everyone I'm undocking in my XYZ ship come protect me!!
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Podee
Something Squishy
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:27:00 -
[13]
i want a mid slot on my pod so i can scram my assailant.
I'm in ur threadz, derailin ur postz. |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:30:00 -
[14]
zomg podee is posting! fanbois unite!
Podee! Podee!
*gushes*
1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo. |
Podee
Something Squishy
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:33:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme zomg podee is posting! fanbois unite!
Podee! Podee!
*gushes*
hey you opened up my way to post. Mention the P word and i come a' runnin'.
I'm in ur threadz, derailin ur postz. |
Alski
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:38:00 -
[16]
Face the truth, this is an MMO, and CCP wants you to play it as one.
"hey everyone I'm undocking in my XYZ ship come protect me!!"
By that logic, when entering into a potentialey hostile situation, a carrier doesent need any battleships, and the battleships don't need any support, and the support don't need any tacklers right? carrier > all? nope. everyone needs support in a potentialey hostile situation.
And 1b isk ship with no defences in a game where you are NEVER trueley safe anywhere, while carreying upto or beyond multiple billions of isks worth of loot is exactley what i'd call a potentialey hostile situation.
Becides anything else, what are you going to fit in those slots? a few ECM won't do anything to save you, sensor damps even less, and a captal armor rep will let you tank about 650+ DPS (thats a lot) with no hardeners... in a ship that is NOT soposed to be a combat capeable vessel. -
(combat) Patch belonging to CCP hits your drones, wrecking their liberty and freedom. |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:40:00 -
[17]
I'll have to remember that
*scribes "Summon Podee" into his spell book*
woops wrong game
1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo. |
RtoZ
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:42:00 -
[18]
What freighters need imo is 7 or 8 tanking slots according to race type (ie, mid or lows); No cargo rigging and inability to fit cargohold expanders (so as to keep original design stats). No high slots. 3 to 4 slots for low or mids fittings depending on race. Ie, a charon (caldari) would have 8 mids and 3 lows. A Providence would have 3 mids and 8 lows. A fenrir could have 7 mids and 7 lows. A Obelisk would have 4 mids and 7 lows. This would give freighters one of the best tanks in the game if one wished, but no offensive capability, and also keep racial identity and combat philosophy (ie, caldari with strong shield, amarr with strong pure armour, gallente with strong supported armour, minmatar with flexibility).
This could work. They could be fitted for afk travel with passive tanks for example, which would make them softer but still usable. They could still be suicide ganked but the amount of effort needed to put into it would be more sensible. The Insurance issue needs to be addressed though. They would also be a bit more survivable in 0.0 operation, as they would be hard targets like a dread. Maybe they could be reclassified as caps and allowed a siege module? I also think they need to have very high warp scramble points requirements so that killing them actually requires a group effort and tactics. Either way it is my opinion that their design needs to evolve in this direction. Do this ccp and I will start hopping freighters in low-sec
I'm sorry to those who thinks otherwise, but the only way to stomach use of a freighter in hi-sec is afk. It is just too mind numbingly boring to do so otherwise, I don't care what devs advise. By design, if not by intention, hi-sec freighters are afk alt ships. Plain and simple. Good game design should take that into consideration imo.
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Jirai Grepher
Creative Destruction EternalRising
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:43:00 -
[19]
Freighters are meant to have an escort. They are transportation ships. they go station to station. that is it. they are unarmed because they do not need nor require to be armed.
Deal with it.
The former and original Pel Mel All posts made reflect my opinion and not that of my corp/alliance. |
Par Bobot
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:45:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Alski Face the truth, this is an MMO, and CCP wants you to play it as one.
"hey everyone I'm undocking in my XYZ ship come protect me!!"
By that logic, when entering into a potentialey hostile situation, a carrier doesent need any battleships, and the battleships don't need any support, and the support don't need any tacklers right? carrier > all? nope. everyone needs support in a potentialey hostile situation.
But all of those ships can mount some sprt of DEFENSE..
And 1b isk ship with no defences in a game where you are NEVER trueley safe anywhere, while carreying upto or beyond multiple billions of isks worth of loot is exactley what i'd call a potentialey hostile situation.
Exactly so why does it not have the right to defend itsself?
Becides anything else, what are you going to fit in those slots? a few ECM won't do anything to save you, sensor damps even less, and a captal armor rep will let you tank about 650+ DPS (thats a lot) with no hardeners... in a ship that is NOT soposed to be a combat capeable vessel.
Offense and Defense are 2 different things
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Alski
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:48:00 -
[21]
Originally by: RtoZ
I'm sorry to those who thinks otherwise, but the only way to stomach use of a freighter in hi-sec is afk. It is just too mind numbingly boring to do so otherwise, I don't care what devs advise. By design, if not by intention, hi-sec freighters are afk alt ships. Plain and simple. Good game design should take that into consideration imo.
That much i would agree with, allthough your journey would go a lot faster if had a corpmate webbing you into instant warp and WTZ'ing, ok you would have to suffer through it and thats the bad side as you say, but if the contence of your freighter is actuley worth ganking then afking is the least sensible option avalible.
Also ONE reason freighters do not and will never have rig or low slots is because if they got any larger cargo bays then capital ships would be capeable of being transported into highsec, and no-one wants that for many reasons. And before you say "but then reduce the base cargo capacity of the freighters" that would be pointless because then people would just fit cargo rigs and expanders and totaley defeat the point of haveing slots for a tank, not to mention that people would whine like hell about haveing there cargo capacity nurfed. -
(combat) Patch belonging to CCP hits your drones, wrecking their liberty and freedom. |
Par Bobot
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:49:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Jirai Grepher Freighters are meant to have an escort. They are transportation ships. they go station to station. that is it. they are unarmed because they do not need nor require to be armed.
Deal with it.
Industrials are transportation ships out from day 1 long before Freighters..They have defensive and offensive ability so your point is invalid. And there was nothing sdaid abou arming them.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:50:00 -
[23]
and CCP says they are worknig as intended so i guess your argument is invalid too
1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo. |
Captian Internet
Lead Bricks
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:51:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Par Bobot NO I HAVE NOT LOST ONE.
Honestly , every ship in game has the ability to try to protect itself except Freighters excluding shuttles . Pods are not a ship.
Give freighters 1-2 lows and 1-2 mids. It atleast gives them some sort of ability to proect themselves..You Devs are always stating changes are for balancing but freighters are not. You added the ability of them to drop loot but not defend themselves??? Where is the balance in that??I have nothing against suicide gankers but lets give a near bill capital ship some defences. I mean ITS A FREAKIN CAPITAL SHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No tank what so ever
Changes to Local,War ,Navigation Shortcuts |
Par Bobot
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:54:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme and CCP says they are worknig as intended so i guess your argument is invalid too
So were NOS, TORPS, Tachyons, 1400mm projectiles, WARP CORE STABS etc. till they got nerfed.
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Alski
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:56:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Par Bobot
But all of those ships can mount some sprt of DEFENSE..
Not allways, haveing been ECMed in my carrier and seen 140+ second locktimes on anouther CAPITAL ship, not to mention smaller stuff, and basicley done nothing but sit around and watch the fight around me while all the ECM ships were picked off by *SUPPORT* i can safley say that if you are one and they are many, you will not have any defence no matter what you fit.
Originally by: Par Bobot
Exactly so why does it not have the right to defend itsself?
Because CCP doesent want it to, to promote teamwork and to promote the idea that all ship classes need support from anouther class.
Also because its not a combat ship, and if it had any form of capital class tanking it would be abused by tanking missions and complexs due to the nature of capital repair modules / tanking.
Any ECM would be useless, unless it had lots and lots of mid-slots for it and then it risks becomeing either a weaponless supertank or a combat ship, it should be neither.
Originally by: Par Bobot
Offense and Defense are 2 different things
The best offence is a good defence, and vs. multiple targets with supior firepower it can't really be anything but a VERY good defence which instantley also makes it a possable offensive weapon. -
(combat) Patch belonging to CCP hits your drones, wrecking their liberty and freedom. |
Par Bobot
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Posted - 2007.09.24 03:03:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Alski
Originally by: Par Bobot
But all of those ships can mount some sprt of DEFENSE..
Not allways, haveing been ECMed in my carrier and seen 140+ second locktimes on anouther CAPITAL ship, not to mention smaller stuff, and basicley done nothing but sit around and watch the fight around me while all the ECM ships were picked off by *SUPPORT* i can safley say that if you are one and they are many, you will not have any defence no matter what you fit.
Originally by: Par Bobot
Exactly so why does it not have the right to defend itsself?
Because CCP doesent want it to, to promote teamwork and to promote the idea that all ship classes need support from anouther class.
Also because its not a combat ship, and if it had any form of capital class tanking it would be abused by tanking missions and complexs due to the nature of capital repair modules / tanking.
Any ECM would be useless, unless it had lots and lots of mid-slots for it and then it risks becomeing either a weaponless supertank or a combat ship, it should be neither.
Originally by: Par Bobot
Offense and Defense are 2 different things
The best offence is a good defence, and vs. multiple targets with supior firepower it can't really be anything but a VERY good defence which instantley also makes it a possable offensive weapon.
AHH but you were able to somewhat defend yourself do some point.. They were banned from complexes. And as the PVP'rs like to say this is a PVP game so a ship unable to mount some sort of DEFENSE is unbalanced!!
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.24 03:05:00 -
[28]
but it can mount a defense so your argument fails
1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo. |
Alski
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.24 03:11:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Par Bobot
AHH but you were able to somewhat defend yourself do some point.. They were banned from complexes. And as the PVP'rs like to say this is a PVP game so a ship unable to mount some sort of DEFENSE is unbalanced!!
No i wasent, the moment i got a lock on anything after those 140 seconds (which btw is probaley enouth time to kill a freighter as well) it was instantley re-broken by the next ECM cycle.
When i did finaley rejoin the battle in the sence that i could actuley target stuff and designate drone targets, it was because my **SUPPORT** (ie: the other players who had my back) had killed the ships that were preventing me from fighting. (or what would be in a freighters case - escapeing)
Had i been on my own, i'd have been poped and podded quicker than you can say "alski - primary"
Banning only works if someone reports them, some plex's and missions do not have gates to stop them.
But you havent actuley refuted a single point i brought.
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(combat) Patch belonging to CCP hits your drones, wrecking their liberty and freedom. |
Jonathos
The Scope
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Posted - 2007.09.24 03:12:00 -
[30]
Everything you state is invalid. Freighters are made to be escorted obviously, last time I checked mining barges aren't exactly able to defend themselves if attacked by another player. Maybe it's because industry related ships aren't made to survive in combat without help? NO WAI
This post isn't inflammatory enough to be trolling, hence my posting.
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