Originally by: Alty MacAlterson

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Yes.

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Originally by: Nick119

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Originally by: Alty MacAlterson

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Yes.

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You should be shot

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Originally by: Valator Uel

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While extreemly annoying unfortunatly there is nothing we can do unless there is proof that they are selling the isk for rl money. Untill then it's just one guy with 6 accounts.

Don't get me wrong, I really hate people who do this as this is the only reason I never go to these sites. All these things should be moved to exploration, IMHO. A single day of exploration never comes close to 6.7Bil, nevermind in 0.5.

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Originally by: Mindseamstress

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Originally by: Valator Uel

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While extreemly annoying unfortunatly there is nothing we can do unless there is proof that they are selling the isk for rl money. Untill then it's just one guy with 6 accounts.

Don't get me wrong, I really hate people who do this as this is the only reason I never go to these sites. All these things should be moved to exploration, IMHO. A single day of exploration never comes close to 6.7Bil, nevermind in 0.5.

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Oh I am not saying he is selling isk for IRL money.. he could be saving up for a dozen Titans for all I know. I don't mean to imply that he would be selling isk. Just using the term "farming" in the sense that he is repeatedly collecting immense amounts of valuable loot in a very repetitive way...

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Originally by: CCP Oveur

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The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.

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Originally by: chaoticmess

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I would just like CCP to make the timer random so this guy will not be allowed to come back to his computer 30 seconds before the can refills activate his codebreaker and take the loot. If not please CCP put the same kind of reliable timer on Officer Spawns so that we may do the same :)

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Edited by: Anst Yorsen on 04/10/2007 00:23:47
Oh and by the way, that's loot for the last week or so, not one day, but keep trying, lying really gets you places.

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Originally by: Valator Uel

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While extreemly annoying unfortunatly there is nothing we can do unless there is proof that they are selling the isk for rl money. Untill then it's just one guy with 6 accounts.

Don't get me wrong, I really hate people who do this as this is the only reason I never go to these sites. All these things should be moved to exploration, IMHO. A single day of exploration never comes close to 6.7Bil, nevermind in 0.5.

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Originally by: Devian 666

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Well if they don't carry out those activities then the price of amarr invention will increase significantly. Is that what you would prefer?

Farming isk is one thing but what are they using it for? So long as they don't ebay it for cash then that's fine.

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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It depends if you listen to his extreme exaggeration, actually wait no, his total and utter lies. He has simply scanned the cargo of 6 abaddons, added it all together and now states that is loot from a single day as fact. He simply assumes this and posts it here to make his thread look more extreme. You're welcome to come try for yourself, if you beat us to the cans or not, i'm sure you'll still see whatever spawns and from that you can calculate the value to be made here.

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: Valator Uel

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While extreemly annoying unfortunatly there is nothing we can do unless there is proof that they are selling the isk for rl money. Untill then it's just one guy with 6 accounts.

Don't get me wrong, I really hate people who do this as this is the only reason I never go to these sites. All these things should be moved to exploration, IMHO. A single day of exploration never comes close to 6.7Bil, nevermind in 0.5.

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It depends if you listen to his extreme exaggeration, actually wait no, his total and utter lies. He has simply scanned the cargo of 6 abaddons, added it all together and now states that is loot from a single day as fact. He simply assumes this and posts it here to make his thread look more extreme. You're welcome to come try for yourself, if you beat us to the cans or not, i'm sure you'll still see whatever spawns and from that you can calculate the value to be made here.

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: Valator Uel

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While extreemly annoying unfortunatly there is nothing we can do unless there is proof that they are selling the isk for rl money. Untill then it's just one guy with 6 accounts.

Don't get me wrong, I really hate people who do this as this is the only reason I never go to these sites. All these things should be moved to exploration, IMHO. A single day of exploration never comes close to 6.7Bil, nevermind in 0.5.

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It depends if you listen to his extreme exaggeration, actually wait no, his total and utter lies. He has simply scanned the cargo of 6 abaddons, added it all together and now states that is loot from a single day as fact. He simply assumes this and posts it here to make his thread look more extreme. You're welcome to come try for yourself, if you beat us to the cans or not, i'm sure you'll still see whatever spawns and from that you can calculate the value to be made here.

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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If anyone honestly believes we made 6 bill in a day here then come try for yourselves.

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Originally by: Hamatitio

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: Valator Uel

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While extreemly annoying unfortunatly there is nothing we can do unless there is proof that they are selling the isk for rl money. Untill then it's just one guy with 6 accounts.

Don't get me wrong, I really hate people who do this as this is the only reason I never go to these sites. All these things should be moved to exploration, IMHO. A single day of exploration never comes close to 6.7Bil, nevermind in 0.5.

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It depends if you listen to his extreme exaggeration, actually wait no, his total and utter lies. He has simply scanned the cargo of 6 abaddons, added it all together and now states that is loot from a single day as fact. He simply assumes this and posts it here to make his thread look more extreme. You're welcome to come try for yourself, if you beat us to the cans or not, i'm sure you'll still see whatever spawns and from that you can calculate the value to be made here.

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Well he says its over a week or so.
So 6.7 billion / 7 = 957 mil a day.

957 million a day / 6 characters = 159 million per character per day.

159 million per day / 23 hours (assuming he really is farming it 23/7)
= 6.9 mil isk per hour per character per day.

I don't know about you, but when I make money I make a lot more than 6 million per hour. I'd say its more of a problem with multiple accounts than anything.

It may be lame that he/they don't have to work as hard, but its within game mechanics so I applaud him for his ability to do it for so long.

And I'm jealous i didn't think of it first.

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Originally by: Hamatitio

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: Valator Uel

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While extreemly annoying unfortunatly there is nothing we can do unless there is proof that they are selling the isk for rl money. Untill then it's just one guy with 6 accounts.

Don't get me wrong, I really hate people who do this as this is the only reason I never go to these sites. All these things should be moved to exploration, IMHO. A single day of exploration never comes close to 6.7Bil, nevermind in 0.5.

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It depends if you listen to his extreme exaggeration, actually wait no, his total and utter lies. He has simply scanned the cargo of 6 abaddons, added it all together and now states that is loot from a single day as fact. He simply assumes this and posts it here to make his thread look more extreme. You're welcome to come try for yourself, if you beat us to the cans or not, i'm sure you'll still see whatever spawns and from that you can calculate the value to be made here.

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Well he says its over a week or so.
So 6.7 billion / 7 = 957 mil a day.

957 million a day / 6 characters = 159 million per character per day.

159 million per day / 23 hours (assuming he really is farming it 23/7)
= 6.9 mil isk per hour per character per day.

I don't know about you, but when I make money I make a lot more than 6 million per hour. I'd say its more of a problem with multiple accounts than anything.

It may be lame that he/they don't have to work as hard, but its within game mechanics so I applaud him for his ability to do it for so long.

And I'm jealous i didn't think of it first.

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Originally by: Mindseamstress

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Edited by: Mindseamstress on 04/10/2007 00:40:17

Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: Valator Uel

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While extreemly annoying unfortunatly there is nothing we can do unless there is proof that they are selling the isk for rl money. Untill then it's just one guy with 6 accounts.

Don't get me wrong, I really hate people who do this as this is the only reason I never go to these sites. All these things should be moved to exploration, IMHO. A single day of exploration never comes close to 6.7Bil, nevermind in 0.5.

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It depends if you listen to his extreme exaggeration, actually wait no, his total and utter lies. He has simply scanned the cargo of 6 abaddons, added it all together and now states that is loot from a single day as fact. He simply assumes this and posts it here to make his thread look more extreme. You're welcome to come try for yourself, if you beat us to the cans or not, i'm sure you'll still see whatever spawns and from that you can calculate the value to be made here.

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The cans respawn every 20 minutes.. that's 3 respawns per hour, which means 36 items per ship in your 12-hour shift.. so ok you had 2-3 days of loot in your cargo, so you made only 2-2.5 bil that day doing nothing... My mistake - apologies.

Enough said

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Originally by: Devian 666

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Originally by: Hamatitio

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: Valator Uel

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While extreemly annoying unfortunatly there is nothing we can do unless there is proof that they are selling the isk for rl money. Untill then it's just one guy with 6 accounts.

Don't get me wrong, I really hate people who do this as this is the only reason I never go to these sites. All these things should be moved to exploration, IMHO. A single day of exploration never comes close to 6.7Bil, nevermind in 0.5.

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It depends if you listen to his extreme exaggeration, actually wait no, his total and utter lies. He has simply scanned the cargo of 6 abaddons, added it all together and now states that is loot from a single day as fact. He simply assumes this and posts it here to make his thread look more extreme. You're welcome to come try for yourself, if you beat us to the cans or not, i'm sure you'll still see whatever spawns and from that you can calculate the value to be made here.

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Well he says its over a week or so.
So 6.7 billion / 7 = 957 mil a day.

957 million a day / 6 characters = 159 million per character per day.

159 million per day / 23 hours (assuming he really is farming it 23/7)
= 6.9 mil isk per hour per character per day.

I don't know about you, but when I make money I make a lot more than 6 million per hour. I'd say its more of a problem with multiple accounts than anything.

It may be lame that he/they don't have to work as hard, but its within game mechanics so I applaud him for his ability to do it for so long.

And I'm jealous i didn't think of it first.

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Once again the math proves the whiners to be whiners.

To be fair to the plex farmers mining in high sec would need to be nerfed (ie., remove exhumers from high sec) to make isk earning fair and balanced.

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Originally by: Mindseamstress

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Originally by: Hamatitio

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: Valator Uel

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While extreemly annoying unfortunatly there is nothing we can do unless there is proof that they are selling the isk for rl money. Untill then it's just one guy with 6 accounts.

Don't get me wrong, I really hate people who do this as this is the only reason I never go to these sites. All these things should be moved to exploration, IMHO. A single day of exploration never comes close to 6.7Bil, nevermind in 0.5.

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It depends if you listen to his extreme exaggeration, actually wait no, his total and utter lies. He has simply scanned the cargo of 6 abaddons, added it all together and now states that is loot from a single day as fact. He simply assumes this and posts it here to make his thread look more extreme. You're welcome to come try for yourself, if you beat us to the cans or not, i'm sure you'll still see whatever spawns and from that you can calculate the value to be made here.

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Well he says its over a week or so.
So 6.7 billion / 7 = 957 mil a day.

957 million a day / 6 characters = 159 million per character per day.

159 million per day / 23 hours (assuming he really is farming it 23/7)
= 6.9 mil isk per hour per character per day.

I don't know about you, but when I make money I make a lot more than 6 million per hour. I'd say its more of a problem with multiple accounts than anything.

It may be lame that he/they don't have to work as hard, but its within game mechanics so I applaud him for his ability to do it for so long.

And I'm jealous i didn't think of it first.

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Well I have to adjust my figures to 2-2.5 bn per day if he only farms for 12 hours. It would be double that if he did it 23 hours. The cans have a set spawn rate and if you farm all the cans you end up with 6 cans every 20 minutes... The loot onbord the ships represents about 30 hours of farming give or take.

You can't divvy per character since typically, you can't be active on more than 1-2 characters at a time. We are talking about roughly 200m per hour in income risk free, with minimal activity

I admire this too.. quite inventive. And if CCP are allowing it, then good on him

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Originally by: Hamatitio

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: Valator Uel

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While extreemly annoying unfortunatly there is nothing we can do unless there is proof that they are selling the isk for rl money. Untill then it's just one guy with 6 accounts.

Don't get me wrong, I really hate people who do this as this is the only reason I never go to these sites. All these things should be moved to exploration, IMHO. A single day of exploration never comes close to 6.7Bil, nevermind in 0.5.

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It depends if you listen to his extreme exaggeration, actually wait no, his total and utter lies. He has simply scanned the cargo of 6 abaddons, added it all together and now states that is loot from a single day as fact. He simply assumes this and posts it here to make his thread look more extreme. You're welcome to come try for yourself, if you beat us to the cans or not, i'm sure you'll still see whatever spawns and from that you can calculate the value to be made here.

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Well he says its over a week or so.
So 6.7 billion / 7 = 957 mil a day.

957 million a day / 6 characters = 159 million per character per day.

159 million per day / 23 hours (assuming he really is farming it 23/7)
= 6.9 mil isk per hour per character per day.

I don't know about you, but when I make money I make a lot more than 6 million per hour. I'd say its more of a problem with multiple accounts than anything.

It may be lame that he/they don't have to work as hard, but its within game mechanics so I applaud him for his ability to do it for so long.

And I'm jealous i didn't think of it first.

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Originally by: Valator Uel

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While extreemly annoying unfortunatly there is nothing we can do unless there is proof that they are selling the isk for rl money. Untill then it's just one guy with 6 accounts.

Don't get me wrong, I really hate people who do this as this is the only reason I never go to these sites. All these things should be moved to exploration, IMHO. A single day of exploration never comes close to 6.7Bil, nevermind in 0.5.

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Originally by: Nillus Jr

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Originally by: Valator Uel

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While extreemly annoying unfortunatly there is nothing we can do unless there is proof that they are selling the isk for rl money. Untill then it's just one guy with 6 accounts.

Don't get me wrong, I really hate people who do this as this is the only reason I never go to these sites. All these things should be moved to exploration, IMHO. A single day of exploration never comes close to 6.7Bil, nevermind in 0.5.

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Ahh, but you see, that's where things take a turn... When this group (guy) camps the cans, not one seems to be able to beat him to the loot. It appears to be on a straight timer (Stupid idea BTW devs....) so anyone that clicks at the right time should have a reasonable chance of beating him to the punch, wouldn't you think? It doesn't seem to happen.

If you go to Garisas and watch local, you'll see other people noticing the same thing. Most of the folks that speak up think he is a single player using a macro. I do too. Some of us have compared notes and filed petitions, but in each case, the petition is closed rapidly (one minute in my case) and the behavior continues. This raises a second point that is just as important as the one Mindseamstress makes. Does CCP actually care if folks use macros and exploit the rules? I have read posts that say they do, that they are "aggressively" pursuing players that them, but I don't really believe that any more. I think the GMs are either lazy or incompetent because as surely as there are tools that can create macros, there are approaches to detect their behavior with a reasonable degree of certainty. Based on what I have seen, I just don't think they care. Not trying to hijack this thread, but what do you think?

Note: Before you think about flaming and telling me, "If you don't like it, why don't you quit", Ill answer that for you. I think about taking the $350 a year I spend on this game somewhere else.

I think about it a lot.

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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The tinfoil hattery is strong in this one, GM's do not care! They are incompetent aswell apparently, yes, that must be it, the GM's are out to get you.

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Originally by: "Jenny Spitfire"

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I prefer CCP to give us free ISKs into our account per month to spend and trade with other players.

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Stuff.

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Originally by: Morn Judith

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Have you tried loading up your ships with nanos and MWDs and just bumping him away? He might be quick enough to get back in time. But if you timed it together and had 2 ships per each one he has, you could start bumping him at 19 minutes and try to grab the cans. It may be entirely too much work and possibly qualify as griefing, but itd be fun!

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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So, now everyone is in here drooling about our fit for female t-shirts...

Originally by: cpt charon

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...hmm interesting!

it is exacly the same situation in deltole / gallente space.

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Oh and by the way, that's loot for the last week or so, not one day, but keep trying, lying really gets you places.

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Edited by: Anst Yorsen on 04/10/2007 00:32:06

Originally by: Devian 666

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Well if they don't carry out those activities then the price of amarr invention will increase significantly. Is that what you would prefer?

Farming isk is one thing but what are they using it for? So long as they don't ebay it for cash then that's fine.

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I'm the one responsible for the 20 amarr encryptions methods up for sale for only 80m each last week. Wow, did i ever get flamed by the resident farmers for that one.

EDIT - I'm refering to people like the OP and his friends.

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Originally by: Shereza

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If I could stand to run the missions enough times and long enough I could probably pull 160m/day on an 8-12 hour "work" day.

Roughly 1.12b/week. Of course I run 2 characters so roughly 551m/week/character.

6 characters pulling 3b/week in a complex seems roughly comparable.

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Originally by: Nadjar

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6.7 billion eh, if anyone was worthy of a profitable suicide ganking............

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Originally by: Jinx Barker

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Perhaps rats in empire needs a boosting? And I mean allot of boosting?

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: Valator Uel

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While extreemly annoying unfortunatly there is nothing we can do unless there is proof that they are selling the isk for rl money. Untill then it's just one guy with 6 accounts.

Don't get me wrong, I really hate people who do this as this is the only reason I never go to these sites. All these things should be moved to exploration, IMHO. A single day of exploration never comes close to 6.7Bil, nevermind in 0.5.

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It depends if you listen to his extreme exaggeration, actually wait no, his total and utter lies. He has simply scanned the cargo of 6 abaddons, added it all together and now states that is loot from a single day as fact. He simply assumes this and posts it here to make his thread look more extreme. You're welcome to come try for yourself, if you beat us to the cans or not, i'm sure you'll still see whatever spawns and from that you can calculate the value to be made here.

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Quote:

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why is it that every single thing that people make good money on is something that requires them rnning multiple accounts and faction based equipment..

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Quote:

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If I want to build a battle ship I mine in a hulk, but if I want to be effeicent I have to have a second account to haul ore so I don't waste time, once the ship is built if I want to run level 4's I need to have a the battleship setup to kill things, but if I want to salavage I need to warp away and grab a salavage ship or have second account salavage as I kill things.

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Quote:

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The difference here is that you're actually doing something for 8-12h per day, whereas the other guy is getting the same isks without lifting a finger or taking any risks.

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Originally by: Spenz

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Back in the day when cosmos plex's were used for cosmos stuff, they were fun. You would have 1 guy coming into local saying "hey I need this mission item can anyone help", and a bunch of ppl would volunteer to take the plunge into that suicidal plex in system.

So we would get 6 or so guys who don't know each other, and are sometimes enemies, and we would get into the plex and dive right in. Mayhem would ensue, and people screaming "I need to warp" or "Im scrambled help me!" would fill the chat channels. Ships would blow up; missiles would fly around; dozens of NPC ships would streak across the screen; gunfire and explosions that would form a continuous white noise. All of this would occur for hours while people would try to find that elusive mission item.

Nowadays? 1 guy in a nighthawk with his alts shield repping while his other alts are in fast ships loaded up with codebreakers. Opportunists that would only move in to hack when the rats are agroed on you (they would only hack your can as well). Farmers like the loser with the abaddons would clog up the plex. Nobody can do them anymore because of these people.

Im all for moving them to lowsec, or make the NPC's auto-cycle targets AND do all 4 types of damage so nobody can uber tank them. I dunno something has to be done to reopen the content back to the public and not for those who have no life (or no morals in the case of Mr Macro)

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Originally by: Ghaelsto Kakram

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Oh and by the way, that's loot for the last week or so, not one day, but keep trying, lying really gets you places.

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So tell us how much avg ISK you make every day?
And how long you're camping those cans every day?
What kind of bots/macros are you using for farming?
What methods for laundering ISK do you use to get your hands on RL money?
Do you mind if you get suicide ganked by some players who are sick of people like you over and over again?

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Originally by: hellsknights

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Edited by: Anst Yorsen on 04/10/2007 00:32:06

Originally by: Devian 666

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Well if they don't carry out those activities then the price of amarr invention will increase significantly. Is that what you would prefer?

Farming isk is one thing but what are they using it for? So long as they don't ebay it for cash then that's fine.

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I'm the one responsible for the 20 amarr encryptions methods up for sale for only 80m each last week. Wow, did i ever get flamed by the resident farmers for that one.

EDIT - I'm refering to people like the OP and his friends.

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So your saying you keep all your accounts in this area at all times?
What i don't understand why wouldent you off-load your lewt after everyday or
log on log off session?

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Originally by: Constance Noring

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Originally by: Shereza

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If I could stand to run the missions enough times and long enough I could probably pull 160m/day on an 8-12 hour "work" day.

Roughly 1.12b/week. Of course I run 2 characters so roughly 551m/week/character.

6 characters pulling 3b/week in a complex seems roughly comparable.

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The difference here is that you're actually doing something for 8-12h per day, whereas the other guy is getting the same isks without lifting a finger or taking any risks. If this guy was using the said time scanning these locations and fighting off rats that threaten to blow up his ships, while still making the same isk/h, I don't think anyone would have an issue with it.

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Originally by: Venkul Mul

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: Valator Uel

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While extreemly annoying unfortunatly there is nothing we can do unless there is proof that they are selling the isk for rl money. Untill then it's just one guy with 6 accounts.

Don't get me wrong, I really hate people who do this as this is the only reason I never go to these sites. All these things should be moved to exploration, IMHO. A single day of exploration never comes close to 6.7Bil, nevermind in 0.5.

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It depends if you listen to his extreme exaggeration, actually wait no, his total and utter lies. He has simply scanned the cargo of 6 abaddons, added it all together and now states that is loot from a single day as fact. He simply assumes this and posts it here to make his thread look more extreme. You're welcome to come try for yourself, if you beat us to the cans or not, i'm sure you'll still see whatever spawns and from that you can calculate the value to be made here.

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You are saying that you routinely keep the loot of several day of farming in your ships as in high security no one will attack you?

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Edited by: Anst Yorsen on 04/10/2007 00:23:47
Oh and by the way, that's loot for the last week or so, not one day, but keep trying, lying really gets you places.

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Originally by: Motokko

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I think the real problem here is not so much the money to effort ratio but simply that a resource intended for everyone is able to be solo camped by one person effectively blocking out every other player in the game with almost nothing they can do to try and take it off you.

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Originally by: Death Kill

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Edited by: Anst Yorsen on 04/10/2007 00:23:47
Oh and by the way, that's loot for the last week or so, not one day, but keep trying, lying really gets you places.

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so you keep a weeks loot in your cargo?

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: Motokko

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I think the real problem here is not so much the money to effort ratio but simply that a resource intended for everyone is able to be solo camped by one person effectively blocking out every other player in the game with almost nothing they can do to try and take it off you.

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Around 40 hackable cans here, half of which can spawn books and decryptors, we only bother with 25% of the cans that actually decryptors and books, the 25% that has a chance to drop the best amarr decyptor. The other 75% we do not touch.

I don't see how we're blocking anything, the only thing we are doing is forcing other farmers like the OP to have to compete with us if he wants the best amarr decryptor.

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Originally by: Shereza

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If I could stand to run the missions enough times and long enough I could probably pull 160m/day on an 8-12 hour "work" day.

Roughly 1.12b/week. Of course I run 2 characters so roughly 551m/week/character.

6 characters pulling 3b/week in a complex seems roughly comparable.

When I set up a corporate mining op awhile back we were pulling about 22m/hour with roughly 6 people. 168m/day, 1.176b/week, high-sec mining. Guess the risk/reward matches up.

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Originally by: Motokko

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: Motokko

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I think the real problem here is not so much the money to effort ratio but simply that a resource intended for everyone is able to be solo camped by one person effectively blocking out every other player in the game with almost nothing they can do to try and take it off you.

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Around 40 hackable cans here, half of which can spawn books and decryptors, we only bother with 25% of the cans that actually decryptors and books, the 25% that has a chance to drop the best amarr decyptor. The other 75% we do not touch.

I don't see how we're blocking anything, the only thing we are doing is forcing other farmers like the OP to have to compete with us if he wants the best amarr decryptor.

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It doesn't matter that you're only camping a quarter of the cans, all that mean is that is takes 3 more people like you in that site to block it for thousands of other players. Its not what you're doing which is wrong, you're just taking advantage of the game mechanics, its these actual game mechanics which are wrong. No system in the game should be able to be monopolised by such an incredibly small fraction of the games population, at least not without competition. Because these sites are static and in high-sec there's really no way to compete once they're camped already.

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Originally by: Death Kill

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and why do you keep all your characters in npc corporations?

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: Motokko

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: Motokko

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I think the real problem here is not so much the money to effort ratio but simply that a resource intended for everyone is able to be solo camped by one person effectively blocking out every other player in the game with almost nothing they can do to try and take it off you.

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Around 40 hackable cans here, half of which can spawn books and decryptors, we only bother with 25% of the cans that actually decryptors and books, the 25% that has a chance to drop the best amarr decyptor. The other 75% we do not touch.

I don't see how we're blocking anything, the only thing we are doing is forcing other farmers like the OP to have to compete with us if he wants the best amarr decryptor.

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It doesn't matter that you're only camping a quarter of the cans, all that mean is that is takes 3 more people like you in that site to block it for thousands of other players. Its not what you're doing which is wrong, you're just taking advantage of the game mechanics, its these actual game mechanics which are wrong. No system in the game should be able to be monopolised by such an incredibly small fraction of the games population, at least not without competition. Because these sites are static and in high-sec there's really no way to compete once they're camped already.

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3 people cannot take all of the cans, there's about 40 or so cans here and they all spawn at the same time, one person cannot grab all the cans at once even if he was using multiple accounts, so long as a played character is sat at every can the person with multiple accounts would only manage to grab one can.

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Originally by: Motokko

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: Motokko

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: Motokko

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I think the real problem here is not so much the money to effort ratio but simply that a resource intended for everyone is able to be solo camped by one person effectively blocking out every other player in the game with almost nothing they can do to try and take it off you.

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Around 40 hackable cans here, half of which can spawn books and decryptors, we only bother with 25% of the cans that actually decryptors and books, the 25% that has a chance to drop the best amarr decyptor. The other 75% we do not touch.

I don't see how we're blocking anything, the only thing we are doing is forcing other farmers like the OP to have to compete with us if he wants the best amarr decryptor.

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It doesn't matter that you're only camping a quarter of the cans, all that mean is that is takes 3 more people like you in that site to block it for thousands of other players. Its not what you're doing which is wrong, you're just taking advantage of the game mechanics, its these actual game mechanics which are wrong. No system in the game should be able to be monopolised by such an incredibly small fraction of the games population, at least not without competition. Because these sites are static and in high-sec there's really no way to compete once they're camped already.

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3 people cannot take all of the cans, there's about 40 or so cans here and they all spawn at the same time, one person cannot grab all the cans at once even if he was using multiple accounts, so long as a played character is sat at every can the person with multiple accounts would only manage to grab one can.

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Ok but still we're not talking order of magnitude difference here. 3 or 40 people needed to perma-block this resource for 20 thousand plus players without any chance to fight for the resource is still broken.

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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If anyone honestly believes we made 6 bill in a day here then come try for yourselves.

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Originally by: Zoltaris

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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If anyone honestly believes we made 6 bill in a day here then come try for yourselves.

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We can't, you take all the cans in 0.1 sec as soon as they respawn, most likely using some macro, but we can't prove that, can we?

The fair way to solve this is to remove the valuable decryptors from these plex and make them spawn in bigger number from exploration, to ensure a constant supply

Or move the plex to 0.4 or less sec so you can't hide in NPC corps

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Originally by: Motokko

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Come on now, that's hardly a realistic situation. Its not going to take many people sat on the cans before it becomes totaly unproffitable and a waste of time. Just seeing one person camping a can will be enough to put people off going for that can. The fact that that one person can just sit there indefinately on the can effectively blocks it for everyone. That's what is broken. Remove the ability to perma-block be having random spawn sites and putting it in a sec were people can actualy fight over it and all is well.

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Originally by: Sinonia Torviir

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my general experience with this kind of ppl
its really strange that, the cosmos farmers always claim the income is crap compared to anything, else they make it sound like if even picking ur nose gets u more and invite u to try urself...

makes u wonder why they still camp it so hardcore with several suicide gank accounts as backup in case anyone stays too long and too close to their precious (errr worthless i mean ofcourse) cans (sidenote i didnt get ganked but saw a couple who were)
they never macro no ofc not they just happen sometimes to miss a chat invite on all their accounts for an hour or more while still looting the cans

so they r all innocent, they basically get nothing out of it, they just do it because well no reason really, everyone can come and try themself they have no problem with competition
to sum it up these r the most fine players of all eve and all u other ppl r just mean

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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I'm going to clear one last thing up, the actual reason we camp these 6 specific cans with 6 abaddons.

We came here solely with the intent to farm the best amarr decryptor in preperation for Rev 3, when we arrived however we saw not only was the place being farmed, but the players doing the farming had some very lame tactics indeed, and were logged on for most of the day and night.

They used one ship to tank and used interceptors to speed around the cans and get the good stuff, if we started hacking, they got rid of the tank and just let us get the crap from the cans, if something good spawned, they would get to the right can and take the decryptor or book very quickly, before our slow ships could even respond. We were doing the work of taking the crap decryptors out only so they could come in and steal the good stuff.

So what did we do? Dumped a battleship on each of the highest level cans so now those little npc corp farmer interceptors and their speed meant nothing. This was the ultimate plan to counter their very annoying setup, and it works.

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Originally by: Locus Bey

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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I'm going to clear one last thing up, the actual reason we camp these 6 specific cans with 6 abaddons.

We came here solely with the intent to farm the best amarr decryptor in preperation for Rev 3, when we arrived however we saw not only was the place being farmed, but the players doing the farming had some very lame tactics indeed, and were logged on for most of the day and night.

They used one ship to tank and used interceptors to speed around the cans and get the good stuff, if we started hacking, they got rid of the tank and just let us get the crap from the cans, if something good spawned, they would get to the right can and take the decryptor or book very quickly, before our slow ships could even respond. We were doing the work of taking the crap decryptors out only so they could come in and steal the good stuff.

So what did we do? Dumped a battleship on each of the highest level cans so now those little npc corp farmer interceptors and their speed meant nothing. This was the ultimate plan to counter their very annoying setup, and it works.

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Yeh sure Pinocchio You are no different than the farmers that where there before you, or the farmers of the Gallente and Minmatar plexes. Your pretence of high and mighty is a crock. You hide in NPC corps knowing you won't get a war dec. You sit on the only cans that drop the skill books, making it impossible for anyone else. And oh aren't you good for supplying the market

Sure it's all legal, cos CCP can't be arsed fixing where and when invention goods drop. Even if they made it completely random in the plexes as to where and when invention skills/components dropped it would be better than now. As it is there are a small few making it impossible for the small inventor/explorer, let alone the rest. If it's not them its the next lot of farmers who push them out.

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Edited by: Anst Yorsen on 04/10/2007 11:15:34

Originally by: Locus Bey

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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I'm going to clear one last thing up, the actual reason we camp these 6 specific cans with 6 abaddons.

We came here solely with the intent to farm the best amarr decryptor in preperation for Rev 3, when we arrived however we saw not only was the place being farmed, but the players doing the farming had some very lame tactics indeed, and were logged on for most of the day and night.

They used one ship to tank and used interceptors to speed around the cans and get the good stuff, if we started hacking, they got rid of the tank and just let us get the crap from the cans, if something good spawned, they would get to the right can and take the decryptor or book very quickly, before our slow ships could even respond. We were doing the work of taking the crap decryptors out only so they could come in and steal the good stuff.

So what did we do? Dumped a battleship on each of the highest level cans so now those little npc corp farmer interceptors and their speed meant nothing. This was the ultimate plan to counter their very annoying setup, and it works.

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Yeh sure Pinocchio You are no different than the farmers that where there before you, or the farmers of the Gallente and Minmatar plexes. Your pretence of high and mighty is a crock. You hide in NPC corps knowing you won't get a war dec. You sit on the only cans that drop the skill books, making it impossible for anyone else. And oh aren't you good for supplying the market

Sure it's all legal, cos CCP can't be arsed fixing where and when invention goods drop. Even if they made it completely random in the plexes as to where and when invention skills/components dropped it would be better than now. As it is there are a small few making it impossible for the small inventor/explorer, let alone the rest. If it's not them its the next lot of farmers who push them out.

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We do not sit on the only cans that drop books, every single can that spawns a decryptor also has a chance to spawn a book, there's around 40 cans here, half of which drop decryptors, we camp 6 cans, now figure out the number of cans that that books that we never hack. Here's the answer for you, 15-20.

Skillbooks already drop from exploration aswell, you get a couple from a radar site last time i checked.

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Anyone willing to back me up on this? Any hackable can that spawns decryptors also has a chance to spawn a book, there's plenty in EVE that know this.

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Anyone willing to back me up on this? Any hackable can that spawns decryptors also has a chance to spawn a book, there's plenty in EVE that know this.

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Originally by: Sinonia Torviir

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Anyone willing to back me up on this? Any hackable can that spawns decryptors also has a chance to spawn a book, there's plenty in EVE that know this.

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sure one of ur alts is willing to back u up

btw isnt it funny that 6 cans seems to be the magic number for cosmos plexes?

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Originally by: Locus Bey

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How many petitions do you think there are against the farmers of the faction complexes? How many complaints are there about not being able to get to the limited amount of cans due to farmers sitting on them/remote repping rats/camping from 12-18 hrs a day/etc etc? Do you think we are all stupid and don't know you have these sights all sown up for you and you alone?

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: Locus Bey

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How many petitions do you think there are against the farmers of the faction complexes? How many complaints are there about not being able to get to the limited amount of cans due to farmers sitting on them/remote repping rats/camping from 12-18 hrs a day/etc etc? Do you think we are all stupid and don't know you have these sights all sown up for you and you alone?

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Patch notes, repairing rats gets you concorded. Now seriously, why do you choose to ignore what we were just talking about now that someone has backed up my claims?

Perhaps this is news to you, but most of the cans that drop skillbooks spend most of the day unfarmed. So much for people not being able to access the resources huh?

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Originally by: Locus Bey

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: Locus Bey

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How many petitions do you think there are against the farmers of the faction complexes? How many complaints are there about not being able to get to the limited amount of cans due to farmers sitting on them/remote repping rats/camping from 12-18 hrs a day/etc etc? Do you think we are all stupid and don't know you have these sights all sown up for you and you alone?

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Patch notes, repairing rats gets you concorded. Now seriously, why do you choose to ignore what we were just talking about now that someone has backed up my claims?

Perhaps this is news to you, but most of the cans that drop skillbooks spend most of the day unfarmed. So much for people not being able to access the resources huh?

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Does now yes. Was a great exploit until now? Did you use it? Doesn't mean its any easier to get to any of the needed cans in any of the plexes. You speed around all 40 cans do you? You don't sit on top of certain cans I gather? With 40 cans up for grab everyone is getting their fair share? Get your hand off it.

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Originally by: Daimos Bellurdan

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1. Camping cans for 12 hours straight with 6 ships and emptying a can every 20 mins with high speed is macroing. I know it cannot be proven but we ALL know for a 100% certainity that there are macroes involved. There is no way in hell someone would actively do that manually for weeks (except maybe sweatshops but thats another problem alltogether).

2. Money per time ratio should be calculated using the time the pilot is active. With mining it is ok to divide earned money through mining time. Mission running is the same. In this case the 7days*12hours*6pilots=504 man hours is not the used time! I would say it is (7*12*3can spawns)*6pilots*1minute = 1512 minutes = 25 hours. 7bil/25 hours = 280 mil/hour. Id say way too high for a high sec activity and virtually no risk or player activity involved. A max of 10 mil sounds right for high sec. I suggest to increase the timer to 5 hours to put it more inline with other highsec activities. Or put the cosmos site into lowsec.

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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CCP know we don't macro, they can see this because we don't get the cans in any pattern which a macro would have us do, when nobody is around we sometimes even forget to pickup the cans so a decryptor may be spawned for a few minutes before it gets taken. When other players are around we make sure we're ready for the spawn.

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: hellsknights

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So your saying you keep all your accounts in this area at all times?
What i don't understand why wouldent you off-load your lewt after everyday or
log on log off session?

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Can't be bothered to dock the abaddons, rather just log out in the plex, usually scrambled and webbed by annoying npc frigates anyway. It's not like we really need the isk, infact we're not actually farming here the isk itself, again contrary to popular belief. You know War Strategon? Very hard to find large quantities of that decryptor, who's gonna be inventing all your T2 amarr battleships come november? You're looking at him ;)

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Originally by: Mindseamstress

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Total Cargo of all 6:

Sacred Manifesto x17 3 million each = 51 million
Circular Logic x680 2 million each = 1.36 billion
War Strategon x57 15 million each = 855 million
Amarr Encryption Method x22 115 million each = 2.53 billion

Grand total = 4.8 Billion

A revised estimate with Jita prices gives:

Sacred Manifesto x17 3 million each = 51 million
Circular Logic x680 2 million each = 1.36 billion
War Strategon x57 40 million each = 2,28 billion
Amarr Encryption Method x22 140 million each = 3.08 billion

Grand total = 6.77 Billion

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Originally by: Spenz

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Back in the day when cosmos plex's were used for cosmos stuff, they were fun. You would have 1 guy coming into local saying "hey I need this mission item can anyone help", and a bunch of ppl would volunteer to take the plunge into that suicidal plex in system.

So we would get 6 or so guys who don't know each other, and are sometimes enemies, and we would get into the plex and dive right in. Mayhem would ensue, and people screaming "I need to warp" or "Im scrambled help me!" would fill the chat channels. Ships would blow up; missiles would fly around; dozens of NPC ships would streak across the screen; gunfire and explosions that would form a continuous white noise. All of this would occur for hours while people would try to find that elusive mission item.

Nowadays? 1 guy in a nighthawk with his alts shield repping while his other alts are in fast ships loaded up with codebreakers. Opportunists that would only move in to hack when the rats are agroed on you (they would only hack your can as well). Farmers like the loser with the abaddons would clog up the plex. Nobody can do them anymore because of these people.

Im all for moving them to lowsec, or make the NPC's auto-cycle targets AND do all 4 types of damage so nobody can uber tank them. I dunno something has to be done to reopen the content back to the public and not for those who have no life (or no morals in the case of Mr Macro)

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Originally by: Daimos Bellurdan

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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CCP know we don't macro, they can see this because we don't get the cans in any pattern which a macro would have us do, when nobody is around we sometimes even forget to pickup the cans so a decryptor may be spawned for a few minutes before it gets taken. When other players are around we make sure we're ready for the spawn.

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Its a no brainer to include random wait times and random target picking into macroes. Ive seen it before and its actually quite simple to do. Obviously ccp cannot prove that someone is macroing because they would have to take a closer look at the running processes of your computer to do so. Server side it is virtually impossible to detect the macroes if they have been implemented right.

If camping 12 hours straight for weeks or maybe even months with 6 pilots and always being there every 20 mins to pull the stuff over in high speed is not macroing (though I cannot prove it 100%) then I do not know what is.

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Originally by: Nillus Jr

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: hellsknights

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So your saying you keep all your accounts in this area at all times?
What i don't understand why wouldent you off-load your lewt after everyday or
log on log off session?

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Can't be bothered to dock the abaddons, rather just log out in the plex, usually scrambled and webbed by annoying npc frigates anyway. It's not like we really need the isk, infact we're not actually farming here the isk itself, again contrary to popular belief. You know War Strategon? Very hard to find large quantities of that decryptor, who's gonna be inventing all your T2 amarr battleships come november? You're looking at him ;)

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Another convenient bit of misdirection for the masses. I've never done this, but I would think that if you log out in a 'plex, when you log back in, you warp back to the 'plex gate, just like any other deadspace area. From there it would be a simple task to dock and unload before going back into the fields again. I suspect that whatever is in his cargo hold is the result of a single 8-12 hour day.

BTW, Since it is a deadspace area, you can't bump him effectively because you can't use a MWD. ABs just don't cut it.

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Originally by: Paulo Damarr

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Originally by: Mindseamstress

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Total Cargo of all 6:

Sacred Manifesto x17 3 million each = 51 million
Circular Logic x680 2 million each = 1.36 billion
War Strategon x57 15 million each = 855 million
Amarr Encryption Method x22 115 million each = 2.53 billion

Grand total = 4.8 Billion

A revised estimate with Jita prices gives:

Sacred Manifesto x17 3 million each = 51 million
Circular Logic x680 2 million each = 1.36 billion
War Strategon x57 40 million each = 2,28 billion
Amarr Encryption Method x22 140 million each = 3.08 billion

Grand total = 6.77 Billion

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If ever there was a target worthy of suicide ganking this was it..........

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difference is that we have to WORK HARD to complete missions and not get blwon up, and we are in front of the computer AND we use the cash for ourselves...

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while these guys
1) can be afk 19 minutes and come back 1 minute

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3) if they make such a huge amount of cash, probably selling on ebay, otherwise would be stupi to pay for 6 accounts with zero real money profit (unless they buy timecodes with the isk)

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3 or 40 people needed to perma-block this resource for 20 thousand plus players without any chance to fight for the resource is still broken.

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I know it cannot be proven but we ALL know for a 100% certainity that there are macroes involved.

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2. Money per time ratio should be calculated using the time the pilot is active.

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With mining it is ok to divide earned money through mining time.

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Any time there is fixed content in a fixed location you'll find that it's farmed, regardless of its value.

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And yeah, I've known people before who sit in front of Eve for 12-14 hours a day every day. And I know they are there because they have talked to me every time I've logged on.

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Originally by: Shereza

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Quote:

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3 or 40 people needed to perma-block this resource for 20 thousand plus players without any chance to fight for the resource is still broken.

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Okay, this is what bugs me about this argument.

Where is this place? How can I get access to this stuff without hacking skills? Seriously. I have no interest going to complexes except to kill stuff.

So out of the 20-40k players who could access these complexes we've got maybe 25-35% that actually have the interest in doing so and of them 50-75% who have the skills to do it and of them what percentage that actually visit the complex involved?

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You still dont get it. The exact figures dont matter, its the fact that these resources can be perma blocked by a small percentage of the populous full stop.

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For example say only 2 people play Eve, Alex and Bob, and they both want to be cosmos hackers. In this mini Eve there's only one hackable can and Alex gets there first and decides to perma-block the can. Bob can no longer play the game as a hacker since he's given no way to fight Alex for this resource. Is this broken?

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Originally by: CCP Morpheus

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nerf ccp plz

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Originally by: CCP Oveur

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To the gankmobile!

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Plz CCP remove all these cans from game it just sounds lame, free isk for macro's ftl

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Move all the farming areas to 0.0

If it makes that much money per day - make people fight for it.
Problem Solved.

~Treb

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Quote:

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Move all the farming areas to 0.0

If it makes that much money per day - make people fight for it.
Problem Solved.

~Treb

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Why should all missions, mining, complexes, and agents me moved to low-sec?

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: Motokko

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I think the real problem here is not so much the money to effort ratio but simply that a resource intended for everyone is able to be solo camped by one person effectively blocking out every other player in the game with almost nothing they can do to try and take it off you.

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Around 40 hackable cans here, half of which can spawn books and decryptors, we only bother with 25% of the cans that actually decryptors and books, the 25% that has a chance to drop the best amarr decyptor. The other 75% we do not touch.

I don't see how we're blocking anything, the only thing we are doing is forcing other farmers like the OP to have to compete with us if he wants the best amarr decryptor.

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Originally by: Shereza

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Quote:

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You still dont get it. The exact figures dont matter, its the fact that these resources can be perma blocked by a small percentage of the populous full stop.

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Actually, I do get it. I'm just honest enough to disagree. The numbers do matter. If they're too small you won't get CCP to increase the priority of fixing the problem. If it doesn't affect enough people then the moral outrage over the subject will either be non-existant or purely a mental exercise.

Also, all the uproar is over 6 people locking up 25% of the resources that maybe 1% of the players try to get at on a daily basis and even if it is the most profitable/useful 25% that still leaves 75% of the area untouched.

Furthermore if they're there non-stop then that means their ships are drawing all the aggro when other people aren't around, right? What's to prevent people from going in, killing off whatever's shooting at them, salvaging/looting the junk, selling it off, and then cutting a deal with the campers to buy off some of their stuff?

But that would require cooperation, initiative, risk taking, and other things that might bother some people.

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For example say only 2 people play Eve, Alex and Bob, and they both want to be cosmos hackers. In this mini Eve there's only one hackable can and Alex gets there first and decides to perma-block the can. Bob can no longer play the game as a hacker since he's given no way to fight Alex for this resource. Is this broken?

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No, not really, but then to me poorly designed does not mean broken.

If you're going to complain about a person or a small group of people blocking off 25% of the most profitable cans in a small area you might as well complain about "pirates" and such blocking off 75+% of the most profitable mining/ratting from carebears.

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Originally by: Jimer Lins

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: Motokko

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I think the real problem here is not so much the money to effort ratio but simply that a resource intended for everyone is able to be solo camped by one person effectively blocking out every other player in the game with almost nothing they can do to try and take it off you.

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Around 40 hackable cans here, half of which can spawn books and decryptors, we only bother with 25% of the cans that actually decryptors and books, the 25% that has a chance to drop the best amarr decyptor. The other 75% we do not touch.

I don't see how we're blocking anything, the only thing we are doing is forcing other farmers like the OP to have to compete with us if he wants the best amarr decryptor.

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In other words, you're totally blocking access to a resource that other players cannot access. It doesn't matter if there's more of them; it means you're holding down some of them, not allowing others to access that resource. It's different than hacking the cans and moving on, you're abusing the system.

That's the problem, whether you see it, or whether you agree it is or not.

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Originally by: Probeltis

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Oh so it's like a corp/alliance blocking a system and guarding it and keeping anyone from accessing and being able to use its resources? By your above definition alliances like Goons, BoB, FREGE, etc... are all abusing the game and should be stopped by CCP. GET REAL!!!

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Originally by: Probeltis

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Oh so it's like a corp/alliance blocking a system and guarding it and keeping anyone from accessing and being able to use its resources? By your above definition alliances like Goons, BoB, FREGE, etc... are all abusing the game and should be stopped by CCP. GET REAL!!!

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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...

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Move it or stop whining about farmers. Your pick.

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And i thought in this game the reward is based on risk etc.

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or make the gurads harder so that a singel ship can't tank them permanently.

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It's a shame such places are exploited but CCP should make things more exploit-proof, it's not the first issue that cosmos or complex sites are farmed with insane profit, please more balance in sources of income and less such exploit-inviting sites so that a few farmers get phat and wealthy without any efford or risk.

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Rather the problem is that farmers are able to completely block this resource without others being able to compete for it which goes against the core of this game, ie competing for resources.

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The point is that some players want a chance to compete over the hacking cans and given the current situation they have non.

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Once its perm-blocked by a farmer there is nothing that can be done.

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Originally by: Jimer Lins

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: Motokko

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I think the real problem here is not so much the money to effort ratio but simply that a resource intended for everyone is able to be solo camped by one person effectively blocking out every other player in the game with almost nothing they can do to try and take it off you.

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Around 40 hackable cans here, half of which can spawn books and decryptors, we only bother with 25% of the cans that actually decryptors and books, the 25% that has a chance to drop the best amarr decyptor. The other 75% we do not touch.

I don't see how we're blocking anything, the only thing we are doing is forcing other farmers like the OP to have to compete with us if he wants the best amarr decryptor.

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In other words, you're totally blocking access to a resource that other players cannot access. It doesn't matter if there's more of them; it means you're holding down some of them, not allowing others to access that resource. It's different than hacking the cans and moving on, you're abusing the system.

That's the problem, whether you see it, or whether you agree it is or not.

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Originally by: Motokko

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Originally by: Probeltis

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Oh so it's like a corp/alliance blocking a system and guarding it and keeping anyone from accessing and being able to use its resources? By your above definition alliances like Goons, BoB, FREGE, etc... are all abusing the game and should be stopped by CCP. GET REAL!!!

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No its not like this at all. The game provides ways for you to be able to actively fight and compete over their resources. This is why there's wars going on all the time. Its players fighting over resources. The can situation however provides no opportunities for competition. Once its perm-blocked by a farmer there is nothing that can be done.

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Originally by: Teani

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only the macros with which you use to hack the can preventing non macroers from being able to hack

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Originally by: Jimer Lins

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If you're sitting there camped for hours on end doing nothing but grabbing the items as they spawn, then yes- You're blocking access to the resource and abusing the game mechanics.

The truth doesn't require you to agree with it.

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Originally by: Gondor Pondor

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so im doing these crappy missions for what? all i need is to sit by some can for half a day and make millions! i can go watch a movie or read a book and still make more isk then the grinding im doing now, if ccp dont see something wrong with this then im wasting my time playing eve.

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: Gondor Pondor

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so im doing these crappy missions for what? all i need is to sit by some can for half a day and make millions! i can go watch a movie or read a book and still make more isk then the grinding im doing now, if ccp dont see something wrong with this then im wasting my time playing eve.

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Why don't you do that then? Obviously it's as easy as pie, so you say, so go and make some isk whilst watching a movie and eating pie.

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Originally by: Gondor Pondor

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: Gondor Pondor

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so im doing these crappy missions for what? all i need is to sit by some can for half a day and make millions! i can go watch a movie or read a book and still make more isk then the grinding im doing now, if ccp dont see something wrong with this then im wasting my time playing eve.

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Why don't you do that then? Obviously it's as easy as pie, so you say, so go and make some isk whilst watching a movie and eating pie.

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Why dont we all do this then? Instead of complaining about it, lets all go to this poxy plex and wait by cans while Anst Yorsen and his 5 buddies tank the rats for us.

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: Gondor Pondor

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: Gondor Pondor

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so im doing these crappy missions for what? all i need is to sit by some can for half a day and make millions! i can go watch a movie or read a book and still make more isk then the grinding im doing now, if ccp dont see something wrong with this then im wasting my time playing eve.

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Why don't you do that then? Obviously it's as easy as pie, so you say, so go and make some isk whilst watching a movie and eating pie.

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Why dont we all do this then? Instead of complaining about it, lets all go to this poxy plex and wait by cans while Anst Yorsen and his 5 buddies tank the rats for us.

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At last, someone who realises that we don't block anyone from anything.

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Instead of complaining about it, lets all go to this poxy plex and wait by cans while Anst Yorsen and his 5 buddies tank the rats for us.

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No your not, but who knew you could sit by a can all day and make millions. If only id known sooner and in high sec too! wow. KaCHING! no broken game mechanics here.

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Originally by: HostageTaker

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Why are people talking about farming these cosmos cans when you could be farming this guy's Abbadons?!?

I mean really! Get your buddies together in a bunch of plated up Domis with racial ECM incase he's remote reppin all 6 Abbas aswell, drone the most expensive abaddon and set dest for Jita with your loot scooping char!

Profit! \o/

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Between the 6 of us over 12-14 hours we'll get a little over a billion isk between us

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made this post because he wants cosmos changed to suit him, he this in local he wants the respawn timers randomized and under no circumstances wants this moved to exploration,

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Just over a bill a day for 6 people in expensive faction fitted battleships at 12-14h a day isn't much when compared to every other way of making isk. The only difference is most other ways of making isk don't require billions spent on faction mods.

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Originally by: Mindseamstress

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What I am still curious about is why this guy is using the term "we"... He appears to log on and off at the exact same time on all characters. Would be surprising if it was more than one actual person behind the characters.

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Originally by: Nillus Jr

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Does CCP actually care if folks use macros and exploit the rules? I have read posts that say they do, that they are "aggressively" pursuing players that them, but I don't really believe that any more.

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Originally by: Probeltis

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Oh so it's like a corp/alliance blocking a system and guarding it and keeping anyone from accessing and being able to use its resources? By your above definition alliances like Goons, BoB, FREGE, etc... are all abusing the game and should be stopped by CCP. GET REAL!!!

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but that doesn't change the fact that this is a broken mechanic and goes against the objectives of the game.

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Would be surprising if it was more than one actual person behind the characters.

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Also, how does one time the split-second loot pickup from all cans using 6 ships simultaneously.

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and doing that same thing for entire days, weeks on end.. Would any normal person do this?

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Originally by: Zen Guerrilla

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The only problem here that i'm seeing is that those asshats completely block the cans for everyone else. Once you got it opened up, there's no chance for anyone else to get the loot.

Stuff like that needs to be put into lowsec or random exploration encounters. That would solve the problem.

And i'm betting all my money there's macros involved. No one would sit there 12 hours a day just for 1 click every exact 20 minutes. It's so simple to macro, even an asshat can figure that out.

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Could you elaborate a little on this can blocking thing please? There's like 40 hackable cans in this deadspace area, half of which can drop the Amarr invention book, we don't bother to hack most of the cans because we arn't really looking for books, we just stay near the highest level cans because that's where the amarr decryptor we need comes from.

Now if anyone wanted to hack the same cans we are at they are most welcome to, but for some reason they'd rather stayed docked in the station, yelling at us, smacking us and calling us macroers. These people don't want to deal with having to compete with us over the few cans that we ourselves hack. The really funny thing is though that the OP doesn't want the decryptors so much, he's looking for books that he can sell for isk, and the books drop from all cans that can spawn a decryptor, but he doesn't want to believe us on that one, but that's his loss.

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Originally by: Shereza

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but that doesn't change the fact that this is a broken mechanic and goes against the objectives of the game.

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What objectives would that be?

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Originally by: Mindseamstress

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What I am still curious about is why this guy is using the term "we"... He appears to log on and off at the exact same time on all characters. Would be surprising if it was more than one actual person behind the characters.

Also, how does one time the split-second loot pickup from all cans using 6 ships simultaneously. Does one grow 12 arms? Maybe that's possible... and doing that same thing for entire days, weeks on end.. Would any normal person do this?

Also.. the loot in the cargo represents the average split of stuff farmed over some time. We know that the number of items is 6 respawn every 20 minutes, i.e 72 items per can per day x 6 ships = 432 items. Don't tell me that that loot in the cargo comes from 1 week of farming :).. especially since the ships are there non-stop.

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Originally by: Noig Lamaroz

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Between the 6 of us over 12-14 hours we'll get a little over a billion isk between us

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So, you "guys/gals" wake up, start eve - start mind numbing 'once every 20 min few click' routine and do it 12-14hrs and then hit the sack to do it again the next day.. Or are you implying account sharing?

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made this post because he wants cosmos changed to suit him, he this in local he wants the respawn timers randomized and under no circumstances wants this moved to exploration,

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How does that differ from you? Or would you be ok with it, if CCP would do exploration move, or lowsec move for that (and other current cosmos static hacking plex's) ?

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Just over a bill a day for 6 people in expensive faction fitted battleships at 12-14h a day isn't much when compared to every other way of making isk. The only difference is most other ways of making isk don't require billions spent on faction mods.

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Just over a bill a day gets you those faction fittings in few days, that's bit over a week to fit those 6 abaddons.. And then it's all risk free easily macroable (I still refuse to believe, you "guys" have clean conscience and no foul play) isk rolling in.. Compared to those other ways of making isk.. They actually require something from user, other than pressing play on macro program and doing whatever after that..

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Originally by: Anacrit Mc'Sinister

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cosmos is buggered, really badly, it need redisigning as it has become isk mining macroheaven. tehy are close to emposible to play for a player becouse of namless pilot doing complex over and over again leaving nothing for you. cosmos needs work done to it, but im not sure how much atantion it is going to get with all the coming new features.

if you see a ship doing the same thing over and over again like beeing able to loot that fast its defentetly macro. 23 houres a day - yep, thats mcaro. the problem is that there are alot of people that dont belive that macto is all that bad. they just see it as maximising there time. .. that is a problem.

overall it would be good to hear form devs some news on fighting the macroers.

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Originally by: Motokko

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Originally by: Shereza

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but that doesn't change the fact that this is a broken mechanic and goes against the objectives of the game.

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What objectives would that be?

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When CCP created this game their objective was to create an environment in which players have to cooperate in groups in order to take advantage of resources but also in which groups of players have to compete with each other for control of those resources. If you go back and read my posts you'll see what I've been saying this whole time is that the current can camping situation is completely removed from any competative game mechanism, its even protected from them. In this respect it goes against the objectives of the game.

Also with regards to the whole macro issue, I couldn't say for sure whether a macro is being used or not, no-one can, but if the allegations are true and this guy is logging in and out simulataneous with 6 characters which camp the system for 12 to 14 hours a day everyday, that's completely inhuman and really just screams macro. Sounds to me like someone is kicking off their macros when they get home from work/school whatever and letting them run all night and morning until downtime when his characters get kicked off the server and he cant reactivate them till getting back home.

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Inhuman, like, humans could not possibly do this? Alien inhuman?

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Originally by: Motokko

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Inhuman, like, humans could not possibly do this? Alien inhuman?

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Technically feasible for a human to do yes. Realistically feasible? Not really.

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Originally by: Motokko

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Edited by: Motokko on 05/10/2007 10:00:53
I just dont see spending 14 hours a day every day sat infront your computer doing nothing but hacking a can once every twenty minutes being something that any human could endure for more than a day or two, let alone six individual players doing this indefinately. That is what's inhuman about it. Besides like I said this is really just a side issue. What's broken is that this is even possible in the first place without having to compete for it.

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Originally by: Motokko

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So regardless of the whole macro thing which I should never have brought up the first place since its something I didn't want to go into and is based soley on other people allegations, what is your opinion on you being able to do this indefinately without having to compete? What's your stand on the game mechanics?

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Edited by: Anst Yorsen on 05/10/2007 10:21:22
Edited by: Anst Yorsen on 05/10/2007 10:21:08

Originally by: Motokko

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So regardless of the whole macro thing which I should never have brought up the first place since its something I didn't want to go into and is based soley on other people allegations, what is your opinion on you being able to do this indefinately without having to compete? What's your stand on the game mechanics?

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I have to compete with anybody else who tries to hack the cans, whoever is most on the ball wins, with a bit of luck mixed in, luck being sometimes you'll still be trying to hack due to constant fails whilst the other guy hacks the can immediately. Everyone has the same base chance to compete, and that chance is slightly effected by your knowledge and experience in hacking cosmos. I guess your hacking skill level matters aswell, number of codebreakers and if you use hacking rigs.

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Originally by: Motokko

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Edited by: Anst Yorsen on 05/10/2007 10:21:22
Edited by: Anst Yorsen on 05/10/2007 10:21:08

Originally by: Motokko

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So regardless of the whole macro thing which I should never have brought up the first place since its something I didn't want to go into and is based soley on other people allegations, what is your opinion on you being able to do this indefinately without having to compete? What's your stand on the game mechanics?

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I have to compete with anybody else who tries to hack the cans, whoever is most on the ball wins, with a bit of luck mixed in, luck being sometimes you'll still be trying to hack due to constant fails whilst the other guy hacks the can immediately. Everyone has the same base chance to compete, and that chance is slightly effected by your knowledge and experience in hacking cosmos. I guess your hacking skill level matters aswell, number of codebreakers and if you use hacking rigs.

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Is this really competition? For players with max skill and equal ping there's no way they can influence their 'control' over the can compared to the other player. There is no way to compete and the more people that camp the cans the less worthwhile it becomes for anyone else wanting to get in on the cans effectively blocking them. Now consinder if the plex is moved to lowsec. Players can now actively enforce their control over the cans with superior forces and attrition thus allowing players to compete through battel. If the plexes are moved to exploration then the groups able to most efficiently and quickly scan the biggest number of systems and react to hits win. Players can now compete in terms of team organisation. If these sites are to be kept static in hi sec then at least introduce hacking booster and disrupter modules thus allowing poeple to compete over the resource.

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Originally by: Ione Hunt

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Imo noobcorp members should not have access to advanced content such as Cosmos missions, so at least you would stand a chance of killing them.

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Edited by: Anst Yorsen on 05/10/2007 10:38:57

Originally by: Motokko

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Originally by: Anst Yorsen

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Edited by: Anst Yorsen on 05/10/2007 10:21:22
Edited by: Anst Yorsen on 05/10/2007 10:21:08

Originally by: Motokko

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So regardless of the whole macro thing which I should never have brought up the first place since its something I didn't want to go into and is based soley on other people allegations, what is your opinion on you being able to do this indefinately without having to compete? What's your stand on the game mechanics?

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I have to compete with anybody else who tries to hack the cans, whoever is most on the ball wins, with a bit of luck mixed in, luck being sometimes you'll still be trying to hack due to constant fails whilst the other guy hacks the can immediately. Everyone has the same base chance to compete, and that chance is slightly effected by your knowledge and experience in hacking cosmos. I guess your hacking skill level matters aswell, number of codebreakers and if you use hacking rigs.

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Is this really competition? For players with max skill and equal ping there's no way they can influence their 'control' over the can compared to the other player. There is no way to compete and the more people that camp the cans the less worthwhile it becomes for anyone else wanting to get in on the cans effectively blocking them. Now consinder if the plex is moved to lowsec. Players can now actively enforce their control over the cans with superior forces and attrition thus allowing players to compete through battel. If the plexes are moved to exploration then the groups able to most efficiently and quickly scan the biggest number of systems and react to hits win. Players can now compete in terms of team organisation. If these sites are to be kept static in hi sec then at least introduce hacking booster and disrupter modules thus allowing poeple to compete over the resource.

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Move it to lo-sec, i like that idea ;) - Like you said, it will give players the chance to enforce their control, and thus a monopoly will be born, cutting out all the other players who just want to hack, i thought the whole point of your argument is that we're somehow blocking access to this place? Moving it to lo sec would give organised groups the power to do just that, block access.

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