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Yazoul Samaiel
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.20 12:04:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse What i dont get is, why dont you send him an evemail? I mean its just one person?
But you arent rly interested in the money, it seems you are more interested in boasting over an extended DT
Maybe coz he posted on COAD like a pompus peacock saying that he is betting that FAT wont fall ? Now its time that he eats his own words
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Jurgurtha
O RLY corp YTMND.
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Posted - 2007.10.20 12:09:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Jurgurtha on 20/10/2007 12:09:50
Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel
Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse What i dont get is, why dont you send him an evemail? I mean its just one person?
But you arent rly interested in the money, it seems you are more interested in boasting over an extended DT
Maybe coz he posted on COAD like a pompus peacock saying that he is betting that FAT wont fall ? Now its time that he eats his own words
Cmon now did you even read the thread the bet was made in? The bet was made in a pretty friendly manner on both sides, theres no need for the r-tardedness
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Achaiah
Black Bag Ops
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Posted - 2007.10.20 12:18:00 -
[93]
It is IMO not unlikely that Pilk pretty much won that bet due to the extended downtime. It's a bit unfair and boring, but not much to do about it. Pilk could have decided to be graceful about it but did not, so just pay the man and the rest of Eve is saved from a long smacking thread filled with gloating and crap.
It's a good bet that Pilk and his pals are more in need of extra ISK anyway.
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Maksiim
Doom and Gloom
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Posted - 2007.10.20 12:49:00 -
[94]
Pay the man.
FanFest is for... |
Nez Perces
Amarr Metatron Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.20 12:50:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Rae'vun I've been following this bet for a while now, and I have to throw in my 0.02 isk.
First off: The bet was accepted by both sides. This means that voiding it is out of the question. The bet entailed that if FAT was in BoB hands by today, Tyrrax would pay 500 mill to Pilk. If this was not the case, Pilk would pay Tyrrax.
Up until now: So far so good.
However, your analogy to alliance bills doesn't fly, simply because as someone else has stated "The game was still going".
All of FAT's towers were reinforced, to come out yesterday. Seeing as how the server was down the entire afternoon, the towers were saved and FAT remained in your hands.
The problem with this is that there is no way of telling how things would have went.
A better analogy would be a soccer match where IACRAA had the ball, 10 steps from the goal with no defenders in sight except the goalie. Just as the player shoots, referee whistles to halt the game because there's rain incoming.
Now, the difference is: In football this would have been cause for a major uproar. That's why given the circumstances, I'm somewhat dissapointed in Pilk for posting this in the first place, knowing full well the terms of the bet and the recent events.
I fully believe that this bet should NOT be voided. You don't agree to a bet with all of the risks involved if you are going to cancel it later, no matter what the reason.
Currently I see no other alternative but to extend the bet by a number of days agreed upon between Tyrrax and Pilk. Double or nothing could apply, again: Depending on the two opposing parties. I'd recommend around 7 days extension, more if you decide to go double or nothing.
Anyway, that's my thoughts concerning the issue.
I agree entirely with this guy.
In practice the bet is won by Pilk, server downtime is a bit like an "act of god", so the bet cannot be voided on account of this. However, the honourable thing would be to extend the bet for a period of time.
If Tyrrax doesn't pay, you could say he loses some honour by not keeping his end of a gentleman's agreement. On the other hand somebody who would insist that this bet got paid, considering the circumstances is hardly a gentleman.
So........hmmm.. yeah this thread is really going places......
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Jugo Loth
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.10.20 12:56:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Achaiah It is IMO not unlikely that Pilk pretty much won that bet due to the extended downtime. It's a bit unfair and boring, but not much to do about it. Pilk could have decided to be graceful about it but did not, so just pay the man and the rest of Eve is saved from a long smacking thread filled with gloating and crap.
It's a good bet that Pilk and his pals are more in need of extra ISK anyway.
I'll take that bet for 500 mill!
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Blind Escort
Xenobytes Stain Empire
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Posted - 2007.10.20 13:02:00 -
[97]
kg/am
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Depp Knight
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.20 13:02:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Rae'vun I've been following this bet for a while now, and I have to throw in my 0.02 isk.
First off: The bet was accepted by both sides. This means that voiding it is out of the question. The bet entailed that if FAT was in BoB hands by today, Tyrrax would pay 500 mill to Pilk. If this was not the case, Pilk would pay Tyrrax.
Up until now: So far so good.
However, your analogy to alliance bills doesn't fly, simply because as someone else has stated "The game was still going".
All of FAT's towers were reinforced, to come out yesterday. Seeing as how the server was down the entire afternoon, the towers were saved and FAT remained in your hands.
The problem with this is that there is no way of telling how things would have went.
A better analogy would be a soccer match where IACRAA had the ball, 10 steps from the goal with no defenders in sight except the goalie. Just as the player shoots, referee whistles to halt the game because there's rain incoming.
Now, the difference is: In football this would have been cause for a major uproar. That's why given the circumstances, I'm somewhat dissapointed in Pilk for posting this in the first place, knowing full well the terms of the bet and the recent events.
I fully believe that this bet should NOT be voided. You don't agree to a bet with all of the risks involved if you are going to cancel it later, no matter what the reason.
Currently I see no other alternative but to extend the bet by a number of days agreed upon between Tyrrax and Pilk. Double or nothing could apply, again: Depending on the two opposing parties. I'd recommend around 7 days extension, more if you decide to go double or nothing.
Anyway, that's my thoughts concerning the issue.
In terms of football (this is fun) a more reasonable way to explain it would be. If there is 10 mins left and the bob team were up 1-0 and one of their men were given a red card, meaning the IAC team would have the momentum for a comeback, which in all fairness does happen in the cruel world of football but then there was a crowd riot, which in all fairness happens in football too: P and the ref had to call the game off the team winning wins the match and not the team who had the momentum.
The fact is that there was no evidence that IAC and allies were guaranteed to take Fat- just like it was not guaranteed that the team down 1 goal would come back. If the bet were that if IAC doesn’t hold fat- by this date then the bet would need to be paid. But because Tyrrax left it to the last day to achieve this you can sorta say ‘too little too late’
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Admiral Feelgood
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.20 13:07:00 -
[99]
i don't think he should pay the bet even if he lost, how stupid would that be
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Admiral Feelgood
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.20 13:08:00 -
[100]
the answer is very for all of you left in doubt
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JeanPaul Sartre
26th of July Movement
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Posted - 2007.10.20 13:08:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Depp Knight In terms of football (this is fun) a more reasonable way to explain it would be. If there is 10 mins left and the bob team were up 1-0 and one of their men were given a red card, meaning the IAC team would have the momentum for a comeback, which in all fairness does happen in the cruel world of football but then there was a crowd riot, which in all fairness happens in football too: P and the ref had to call the game off the team winning wins the match and not the team who had the momentum.
The fact is that there was no evidence that IAC and allies were guaranteed to take Fat- just like it was not guaranteed that the team down 1 goal would come back. If the bet were that if IAC doesnÆt hold fat- by this date then the bet would need to be paid. But because Tyrrax left it to the last day to achieve this you can sorta say ætoo little too lateÆ
This is exactly how Ladbrokes or William Hill would pay out also.
I see lots of Goon rant and not much from Tyrax. Goons needs to keep out of affairs that do not involve you before the other half of eve wants to wipe you out too.
In short: PAY THE MANÖ --
Quote: If a victory is told in detail, one can no longer distinguish it from a defeat.
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Faith Black
Minmatar Rolls Roids
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Posted - 2007.10.20 13:13:00 -
[102]
Think he has lost the bet, although some bad luck was against him. Guess the circumstances of winning/losing were never part of the bet, the only thing that mattered was, who holds the systems at date X.
TT owns more than enough isk anyway I guess, considering what he's been risking and losing in the past again and again. Losing a bet and 500mil isk by bad luck should be a minor issue to him.
On the other hand Pilk could also be nice, after having had his fun, and don't insist on the payment anymore. So yes, thread is going places. Soap opera.
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Admiral Feelgood
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.20 13:14:00 -
[103]
Originally by: JeanPaul Sartre before the other half of eve wants to wipe you out too.
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INZi
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.20 13:16:00 -
[104]
in the world of internet spaceship pew pew you have to imagine that there is no bet _
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Jakiri
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.20 13:38:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Jakiri on 20/10/2007 13:40:37
Originally by: Depp Knight
In terms of football (this is fun) a more reasonable way to explain it would be. If there is 10 mins left and the bob team were up 1-0 and one of their men were given a red card, meaning the IAC team would have the momentum for a comeback, which in all fairness does happen in the cruel world of football but then there was a crowd riot, which in all fairness happens in football too: P and the ref had to call the game off the team winning wins the match and not the team who had the momentum.
Actually, this isn't the case. A 3-0 victory given against the team responsible for the pitch invasion is the standard punishment, as recently seen in Denmark - Sweden, when the ref was attacked after awarding a penalty, and the Milan derby in the Champion's League when Dida was hit by a flare. The games were 3-3 and 1-0 at the time, respectively.
Obviously the bet should go against BoB then because everyone knows BoB are dirty hackers or somesuch.
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Martinez
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.20 13:48:00 -
[106]
Bet was won by Pilk.
First off we did show up to fight, server down or not, that was you alls decision not to push the attack. Also i am not sure that even had the servers not gone down killing all the towers, that would have given you the system by the end of the bet. Furthermore, goons really are great. You make this game more fun for people who want to shoot you.
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CobraBytez
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2007.10.20 13:51:00 -
[107]
I recommend that Tyrrax not pay this bet on the grounds that AXE is a joke and it's not like he'll ever be able to hurt you anyway.
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Montaire
Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.10.20 14:04:00 -
[108]
Well Hrm.
Since the bet offered both sides a set period of time at the beginning (X days, X weeks etc) and not a fixed amount of actual GAME time (x number of hours the servers were accessable) I would be inclined to argue that Pilk won.
Both sides went in knowing that there could be problems with the server. I'd imagine both of them have had enough time in EVE to have experienced this. Nobody went in ignorant, or if there was ignorance it was certianly both sides that were equally ignorant.
Much like a homework assignment, one side of the bet had an equal chance to do it during the period of time alloted, having held out to the last minute was ill advised in this case, as it is in so many other situations.
Since the downtime had its effect on both sides equally, this should go to Pilk. If, with 5 mins left in an American Football game the quarterback falls and breaks his neck, the game goes on. Just like this TT took a serious blow, but both sides understood that risk (the risk of downtime and server outages) when they took the bet.
And again, if they had wanted to specify a certian number of playable hours, they could have. That they chose not to, knowing fully that EVE goes down at least daily, means they understood the risks implicit to downtimes and made their agreement in that light.
Had Pilk waited to take FAT, relying on the very last moment, he would equally have had to pay up.
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RDevz
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.20 14:05:00 -
[109]
Originally by: JeanPaul Sartre
This is exactly how Ladbrokes or William Hill would pay out also.
Also Spracht William Hill:
Quote: We will not be liable or responsible for any failure to perform, or delay in performance of, any of our obligations under a Contract that is caused by events outside our reasonable control (Force Majeure Event).
-- #include <disclaimer.h> |
Montaire
Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.10.20 14:17:00 -
[110]
But both sides accepted that downtimes could (and allways do) happen.
And it could have had an effect on either side. True, RSF (Is that a non-derogatory term, is there one that is more appropriate?) did lose the timing they wanted, but they did not lose all opportunity. They simply lost the chance they wanted, and decided not to take another.
Originally by: RDevz Edited by: RDevz on 20/10/2007 14:06:35
Originally by: JeanPaul Sartre
This is exactly how Ladbrokes or William Hill would pay out also.
Also Spracht William Hill:
Quote: We will not be liable or responsible for any failure to perform, or delay in performance of, any of our obligations under a Contract that is caused by events outside our reasonable control (Force Majeure Event).
This isn't like a player injuring himself or getting sent off. This is a neutral third party bombing the stadium and rendering it unusable for a certain length of time.
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Wigglytuff
Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.20 14:18:00 -
[111]
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Obidios
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.20 14:19:00 -
[112]
People saying the bet was won because of downtime are ******s. Even if IAAAAC put towers on every moon and killed all of BOB's it would still be our station today. -----------------
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dev1lwoman
Cynos R US
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Posted - 2007.10.20 14:21:00 -
[113]
Originally by: JeanPaul Sartre
Originally by: Depp Knight In terms of football (this is fun) a more reasonable way to explain it would be. If there is 10 mins left and the bob team were up 1-0 and one of their men were given a red card, meaning the IAC team would have the momentum for a comeback, which in all fairness does happen in the cruel world of football but then there was a crowd riot, which in all fairness happens in football too: P and the ref had to call the game off the team winning wins the match and not the team who had the momentum.
The fact is that there was no evidence that IAC and allies were guaranteed to take Fat- just like it was not guaranteed that the team down 1 goal would come back. If the bet were that if IAC doesnÆt hold fat- by this date then the bet would need to be paid. But because Tyrrax left it to the last day to achieve this you can sorta say ætoo little too lateÆ
This is exactly how Ladbrokes or William Hill would pay out also.
I see lots of Goon rant and not much from Tyrax. Goons needs to keep out of affairs that do not involve you before the other half of eve wants to wipe you out too.
In short: PAY THE MANÖ
Actually the rules have changed as far as betting goes.
If the Ref calls off the match due to crowd trouble etc the Pools panel make a judgement on the probable outcome, although as far as the league goes the result at the time the match was abandoned stands
If that case, the pools panel would have to make a decision on wether during the RA/AAA/IAC prime time they would have held/lost the system. In close calls such as this the panel normally announce a score draw.
Luckily for Tyraxx we dont have a Eve Pools panel, only a peanut gallery, so I reckon the resut is match abandoned- No result- No payout
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deadtear
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.20 14:26:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Obidios People saying the bet was won because of downtime are ******s. Even if IAAAAC put towers on every moon and killed all of BOB's it would still be our station today.
Hollow victories are bob's favorite.
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Please Hold
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Posted - 2007.10.20 14:33:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Jakiri Actually, this isn't the case. A 3-0 victory given against the team responsible for the pitch invasion is the standard punishment, as recently seen in Denmark - Sweden, when the ref was attacked after awarding a penalty, and the Milan derby in the Champion's League when Dida was hit by a flare. The games were 3-3 and 1-0 at the time, respectively.
Obviously the bet should go against BoB then because everyone knows BoB are dirty hackers or somesuch.
No this isn't correct. This is a UEFA rule for certain tournaments, not a FIFA rule and certainly not upheld by the FA in England.
As for a force majeur nulifying a bet with William Hill that would be equivelant to match being called off due to unplayable weather conditions or a stand collapsing. All bets are void and you would get your money back.
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Cippalippus Primus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.20 14:34:00 -
[116]
Meh, no one said yet that 500m is nothing for tyrrax. He'll pay just out of boredom.
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Jasese
Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.20 14:57:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Moon Kitten What happens if he doesn't pay up?
Nothing. Bob still loose.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.20 15:04:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Moon Kitten What happens if he doesn't pay up?
Tyrrax would lose his mad props and internet spacehonour
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fire 59
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.20 15:05:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Jasese
Originally by: Moon Kitten What happens if he doesn't pay up?
Nothing. Bob still loose.
Lose what exactly? The only consequence realistically of him not paying up is showing the community he is all talk and no trousers so to speak. Can't exactly send space bailiffs after him ^^
Random Goon - 'Why don't you kickbox me about it, after your dad has killed himself of course' |
wicked cheese
Eth3real Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.20 15:16:00 -
[120]
well if the bet was over "who holds the system" then what is considered holding the system. if it was on lockdown by one side or vast majority numbers wouldnt that be holding the system? wouldnt most POS's also be holding system even in a station system? and of course who holds the station.
though i dont know (and couldnt have taken part) as to who woulda brought largest numbers, from what ive seen in the past that could have gone either way.
POS control could have gone either way
station was definatly GBC owned regardless.
seeing how 2/3 of those aspects are seen as maybes, due to an odd DT, id say no more than a week extension is reasonable?
or perhaps backdoor bandit should make the final call anything i say is my own opinion and not of my corp or alliance |
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