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Crohnx
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.21 11:39:00 -
[1]
http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=512
Originally by: zulu Hi, Iæm Zulupark and recently transferred from the Quality Assurance department to the Game Design team. IÆve been with CCP for just under two years now and donÆt plan on going anywhere. Say hello to your newest balancer (I still haven't received a nerfbat though).
Iæm posting here now because the last few days weæve been looking at the way capital and supercapital ships are functioning on Tranquility, and to be honest weære a little concerned with the direction itæs taking.
What we want is pretty basic: We want to make fighter wielding capital ships more reliant on their support fleet and less of a direct nber deathbringer.
How are we going to do it?
Well, we have an idea, and before you go ballistic remember that this is an idea and weære still working on it:
We plan on changing the way fighters work, and have it so that you can still launch all the fighters you want (within limits of your ship/skills) but you can only directly control 5 of them at a time. That means that a carrier/mothership can launch 5 fighters, assign them to a gang mate, launch 5 more, assign them to another gang mate etc. etc.
This means you will NOT be able to launch 20 fighters from a mothership and send them all to incinerate a battleship in .2 seconds. It does however mean that you can assign 5 fighters to each of your lilæ friends in the fleet and send them forth to be the messengers of your burning fury.
Remember, weære not messing with the final total amount of fighters you can launch and delegate, just the amount you can control and delegate at a time. You can of course also launch 5 fighters and make them attack a target of your own choice, if it pleases you.
But wait! Thereæs more!
Not only do we want to limit the amount of fighters you can launch, but also the amount of drones! Yes, we want to limit carriers and motherships just like other ships, i.e. they should only be able to field 5 regular drones at any given time.
Thatæs it! No beer for you at Fanfest!
Awww man you can't let me run dry. But seriously, the reason we want to implement something like this is that we feel that capital ships are being used way too much as better-than-battleships-at-killing-stuff ships, when we in fact think that they should be used more as the-ships-that-keep-other-ships-alive-and-provide-them-with-additional-firepower ships. Did that make sense? Probably not, but anyway, we hope you get the gist the direction we want to move them in and the way we see that happening.
Remember that this is still just an idea and we want your feedback on this, so please, post constructively and you just might make a difference in the (EVE) universe.
oh and can u erase like 60mil of my skillpoints while ure at it so those 1 week old players can stop whining and play with people that are in here 3+ years , really wtf
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dimensionZ
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.21 11:41:00 -
[2]
Yeah insta killing 60m battleships in a 20b ship was really too easy. Every pilots and there mother got one just for that! Okay enough with sarcasm. I can understand that they are pwn machines versus battleships, but hey, having it in the open is already a huge danger (remember, 20b!) and now you want to nerf it _again_ ? Way to go... ----------------------------------------
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MetalI
Union Of Xtreme Military
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Posted - 2007.10.21 11:45:00 -
[3]
WTF this better not happen . What a waste of skill points and isk if it does
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DeadProphet
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.21 11:47:00 -
[4]
jesus, at least leave the drones as they are...you really dont want a 20bn ship to be able to defend itself against smaller ships do you :(
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Jita Alt
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Posted - 2007.10.21 11:49:00 -
[5]
Holy christ batman! a 20 bil ship can kill a 100 mil ship??? osht osht osht So when are we nerfing battleships so they can't kill cruisers anymore? __________________________________ Calling you an idiot on a forum nearby |
Maeltstome
Minmatar Caldari Navy Raiders Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.10.21 11:49:00 -
[6]
The main complaint about Fighter carrying ships is the un-scrammable (ew immune) element of the mothership. Anyone who has spent the last 2 years playing the game rather than reading the forums would realise that fighters die VERY easily under any form of fire. Its basically an un-tanked cruiser.
I sense another tuxford coming along.
As a final point: Most people who see a carrier think of them as a fighter dispenser to be used at there disposal, but after doing this once and realising how little idea of how to use fighters most BS pilots have, you will think twice about assigning them. Ever lost 100mil worth of fighters (which are a PAIN to haul) in a matter of seconds, cause that BS pilot you trusted 'forgot' to return themn once they came under fire from a smartbombing capital?
Id rather launch 5 and control them myself than loose 10 to fleet stupidity.
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Glarion Garnier
Solar Wind
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Posted - 2007.10.21 11:50:00 -
[7]
Havent you heard there is a quota on nerfs they have to fullfill. ok joking aside Perhaps it might be a time to really reflect this chainge. Does this come from a point where too many fighters in the air is once more a lag fest thing.
So in the old days it was high SP BS pilots and their 15 drones . now in the battlefield its high SP capital ship pilots and their fighters ..
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the W0rker
Federation of Synthetic Persons STYX.
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:01:00 -
[8]
Edited by: the W0rker on 21/10/2007 12:04:09 Edited by: the W0rker on 21/10/2007 12:01:36
Originally by: MetalI WTF this better not happen . What a waste of skill points and isk if it does
/signed
speding skills and isk+ for a year+ into a ship and u cant kill a bs anymore. if this happens i will switch to bs again - isk/dmg is much better than
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Three0fNine
FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:06:00 -
[9]
first of April? no, check
I did not want this mothership anyways....
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ExTrEmM OCL
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:09:00 -
[10]
i was hesitating for a Hel but this problem is solved
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FomkA
Red Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:11:00 -
[11]
Thx CCP, i have wasted 25mln SP for being "Support and healer for my little friends and gang mates".
CCP it's time to nerf BS! I cant tank close combat battleship on my Punisher! It kills me in 1 sec!
The general idea of MS got screwed up by forum trolls and carebears... Welcome to eve-carebirea?
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Tempelier
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:13:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Tempelier on 21/10/2007 12:13:50 Why not work on your "core system" first! to finally let you play in fleet fights and not staring at your monitor for about 15 mins.. Nerving everything is not helping your main problem.. so I petition!
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Fuyuka Yasuda
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:16:00 -
[13]
Woot with gallente bs at 3 my dominix can kill a MS !!!
Dominix > MS
nerf the dominix !!!
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Inflexible
Rytiri Lva
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:17:00 -
[14]
NOT funny. 0/10
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Xaarist
FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:23:00 -
[15]
i do not know where the "newest balancer" has got his information from. maybe he should go and fly a mothership or a carrier on his own at least once.
you logic is so stupid, i can't seem to get it. a BS can kill a t1 cruiser within seconds, so you need to nerf the BS guns and make them controllable by gang members (comparable to the POS gunnery stuff) because it is overpowered otherwise. BS/cruiser ISK ratio = 10. carrier/BS ISK ratio = 10, too. mothership/BS ISK ratio = 200+. there you go.
about mommas: seriously, who would want a 20-30 billion logistics ship? a carrier has almost the same capabilities.
if you even consider what is written in the dev blog (i still think it is some late april fools day joke) i got to tell you that you forgot a lot of things, for example drones and fighters can be easily killed, they have travel times, they still have a stupid KI, they get stuck and you loose them on disconnects, ... do i have to write more? have you tried focussing fire on anything smaller than a cap ship with a carrier fleet, and have you been sucessful? BS can focus fire and melt a BS faster than carriers, nerf focus fire. seriously, start thinking, and start playing your game so you know how it really works for your customers.
i am a mothership pilot with maxed skills (apart from fighters 5), and i have never seen a BS melt in 0.2 seconds. also, i have killed plenty more BS with my other accounts than with my mom. i can tank the fighters of my mom with a t1 setup BS (everybody can if he knows what he's doing) for quite some time even. the facts you base your approach on are simply untrue. now reveal to us what the real reason is your are thinking about this. lag cause by fighters hint hint hint... if this is true, just remember what happens if you not only have 50 carriers, but 50 carriers + 2 ceptors per side per system, plus support fleet.
again, sorry if that's a bit harsh and too much sarcasm, but i get really ****ed if i read something like this, even if it is just an "idea". ---------------- Your signature image exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie |
Kern Walzky
Caldari Tenacious Danes Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:24:00 -
[16]
What is this... you want to nerf capitals now.. im so glad i did not get my momie ship then... its a wate of money now..
CCP..really... why this change.. ???
A carrier can kill a BS..yes ofcause it can.. a BS can kill a cruiser... its how it works..bigger ships can pwn smaller ships...but always with the danger of loosing it to many smaller ships.
Delegate to support...well you cant see the life of your fighter, the lag you wont notice that 5 of your fighters are doing nothing... If this change comes you will see carriers and momies hugging the pos shield delegated all fighters.. BOOORING !!! then there is only logistic ability left...
Sorry CCP but this change sucks BIG time Kern Walzky "Freedom is part of life" |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:25:00 -
[17]
In LARGE battles, it renders ATTACKING force carriers ALMOST COMPLETELY useless, due to lag... and DEFENDING ones slightly less effective due to occasional dropouts. In smaller-sized battles, it adds a big hassle of bothering to reassign fighters. In solo battles (or carrier-only/mostly gangs), it nerfs carrier firepower hugely. You fix one issue of the situation (solo pwnmobile or mostly-carrier strike teams), while adding a lot of unnecessary hassle.
If you REALLY want to do this, start thinking of ways to remove the "fighter delegation" mechanism altogether, and replacing it with a "fleet commander fighter control" tactical screen or somesuch, where the NUMBER of fighters in space alloocated to "fleet command" is linked to the fleet size in the current battle, and fighters are EITHER completely autonomous OR the fleet commander can see every local grid locked target and assign up to 5 fighters per target lock on that target. _
1|2|3 |
Zylatis
Umbra Congregatio
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:28:00 -
[18]
Well if this goes through id like about 1b worth of skills back and remove those skills from my head please :S
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Trass
Caldari DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:30:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Trass on 21/10/2007 12:33:12
Originally by: dimensionZ Yeah insta killing 60m battleships in a 20b ship was really too easy.
More like 100m bs vs 50.000m mothership (including fittings). And no - it should be easy.
I'm not a mom pilot and probably never be, but these nerfs is like other stupid ccp ideas.... really S_t_u_p_i_d
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Kay Han
Caldari Friendship 7 Corporation STYX.
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:36:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Kay Han on 21/10/2007 12:38:06 basically i agree with the devblog.
there are FAR to much drones in space atm, when a carrier / MS blob warps into battle. Drecreasing teh number of active drones may be a good way to reduce the lag caused through fighters.
So far so good.
BUT
one thing really makes me think, the desingers / ballancers are either plain Stupid or ignorant. Carriers won¦t be able to defend herselfs anymore. 5 fighters are pretty much tankable TBFH. So Carriers will die to random BS squads.
Not every1 has support with him when moving a carrier from low sec system a) to low sec system b) f.e. I really hope you¦ve taken this into account
so either Increase the damage from fighters if they are NOT delegated by 50% per drone. Or change the avanced drone interfacing Skill. +1 drone and +20 damage per level if teh drone isn¦t delegated.
If there will be no change, this will be one of the baddest nerfs ever.
and always remember Cruiser kills frig, bs kills cruiser, cap ship kills bs. Thats the way it should work.
kay
Originally by: CCP Atropos Personally I think Amarr ships should consume slaves in a similar way that other ships consume ammunition.
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Elmicker
Black Sea Industries Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:39:00 -
[21]
Ok, you wanted a constructive response - you're getting one.
WHAT THE **** ARE YOU THINKING?! ARE YOU ON *****?! THIS IS WORSE THAN THE SODDING MINERAL COMPRESSION NERF!!!!
Fighter delegation is all well and good in theory, and is actually something i quite like as it nerfs lowsec solo moms. However, in a real fleet situation, this is impossible. Lag is the prime factor in this. Navigating gang menus and spamming up gang communication channels for fighter requests contribute too. It just isn't viable.
As for the drone limitations? I refer you to my above bolded comments. This makes carriers utterly USELESS. Like, why the **** would you bring a carrier to a frontline situation? Carriers and motherships are now dominixes. Nothing more.
In fact, here's a snipped from a carrier and a mothership pilot upon hearing about the change:
Quote: (@El-Diablito) I've wasted months of training @El-Diablito) for a ship I now have NO desire to fly (@El-Diablito) mother******* *******s (@El-Diablito) five drones (@El-Diablito) i'll have less dps than a megathron
Quote: (13:32:19) (@Rodent) El-Diablito cry more ******, I have 60b invested in a ******* dominix :|
Your entire logic in this is flawed; you spend MONTHS moving carriers away from POS-hugging fighter spammers, trying to edge them more towards frontline logistical support and now you nerf EVERYTHING about them. They're now ridiculously vulnerable to interdictors, and have absolutely no effective offensive capability.
Now: Here's the key thing. You have just made the only statement that has EVER united both sides of this war. Everyone is ****ed, and everyone WILL despise whichever asshat came up with this change if it comes onto TQ. Have a tip, free from me, abandon it now. Say you had technical difficulties or something, like you did with the cloaking change (which is coming when, btw?). Or better yet, just remove the eejit of a dev who came up with this back to whichever cupboard he came from.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:40:00 -
[22]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 21/10/2007 12:43:17 I'll say it again
a change could emcompass
Carriers can still deploy tons of fighters and kill battlships with ease
Mothership Ship that can spam lots of fghters but only with support near by...
I just got it!
Make the number of fighters it can control dependant on the number of other fleet ships in it's gang on the same grid. so you don't have to assign them to another player, you can just send out more becuase you have peope with you?
control 5 more fighter per gang mate? thgis way if they hug a POS they are wrothless, but if they go out with ther ships they get more dps?
or does that make it too much like a titan? ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP need...more room... |
Kaar
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:44:00 -
[23]
What a total joke.
Do fighters even get their damage bonus when assigned?
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Mifter Hogdido
Amarr The 0ri Origin Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:45:00 -
[24]
This is a terrible idea. Someone fire that guy. -----------------
Its "the" by the way, not whatever the made up use of letters "teh" means. |
MuffinsRevenger
EmpiresMod Koroshiya Buntai
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:46:00 -
[25]
Basicly the idea is to make sure that carriers stay far far away from the fighting, preferebly just outside POS's delegating fighters, right?
'cause it soudns familiar somhowe |
Pharuan
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.10.21 12:56:00 -
[26]
Here is my question.
Lets say that you do put this change out.
You delegate 5 fighters to a support ship. You have 5 fighters under your own control.
Then your support ship gets destroyed. Will it's delegated fighters automatically return to your fighter bay? Will they just sit in space? What do you have planned for this?
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Mitchman
Omniscient Order Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.10.21 13:03:00 -
[27]
Nerf something else if you need to fill your quota.
New video: Pride, Honor & Retribution
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Dezorijented
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.10.21 13:09:00 -
[28]
Yea its all nice and easy , how in hell we are supposed to control now droens in such a lag ? fix lag maybe then fix evrything else !!! I cant start 1 module in lag and you want us to assigne fighters and deploy over and over ? Oh yea , nice idea!! Ah yea i forgot , there is no lag , its a game feature ! Like desync , feature also !
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Have some
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Posted - 2007.10.21 13:22:00 -
[29]
Might as well change the name from carrier to Heavy logistics also, Will post something constructive later.
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Spoon Thumb
Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.21 13:31:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Spoon Thumb on 21/10/2007 13:32:58
Originally by: Crohnx
Originally by: zulu
dev blog
oh and can u erase like 60mil of my skillpoints while ure at it so those 1 week old players can stop whining and play with people that are in here 3+ years , really wtf
1 Please don't quote an entire dev blog, then say absolutely nothing about said devblog
2 Why don't you justify your opinions. Just saying "i don't like it, don't do it" isn't really anything worth posting about.
Khaldari
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