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carrier, moms nerf incoming

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Malaan Tabfassh Penguin Mining Operations and More	Posted - 2007.10.21 15:58:00 - [61] Well, I don't fly a carrier till now. But I thought about it, cause I think this is a very versatile shipclass till now and can help a small corp much when settling down in a lowsec area. When such a nerf comes, it won't be more than a Tech III logistic cruiser. Damn this is a capship, it will cost over 1bil for me when buying it (much for me). It shouldn't be a wtfpwnmobile, but not a logistic cruiser with only a jumpdrive either.
NaRoaN	Posted - 2007.10.21 16:02:00 - [62] Look if this becomes a reality then I'm telling you right now i quit you guys always make a ship or mod, then nerf it... So I as many other do spend tons of our time training it, and then its useless.. Is this a ploy to keep us shelling Bucks your way MOthership. Why should a 30 billion + dollar ship reck havoc on a battlefield? If you nerf the carrier then i want all the isk and skillpoints reimbursed!!!! because it will be useless. as it pretty much already is anyways Whoever thought of this idea at eve should be FIRED!!! BLOWN UP AND PODDED
Blind Man Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.21 16:05:00 - [63] nothing but good stuff there.. I knew why I didnt train for capital ships hahahahaha :)
gordon cain Minmatar x13	Posted - 2007.10.21 16:06:00 - [64] I was told to go check the forums for an incomming mom/carrier nerf. And I find this. I hope you are really considering what this will do to cap warfare. - This will destroy corps with less than 20 active members with a good capital turnout. - This will cause blob-warfare to explode and begin a new time of shuttle/rifter fighter bombing. - Why are CCP even considering nerfing moms/carriers when they cant even figure out how to solve the desync proplem. Oh well, I can always go play "pirates" when that is out and come back when they fixed it again. Gordon Cain "Allways remember. Never argue with idiots, they will just drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience"
Young Buck Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.21 16:12:00 - [65] To be honest CCP i think this nerf is complete -blam!-. With that said my reasoning is this; i have spent countless months and invested extreme amounts of isk to make my carrier dream come true and now that i have gotten to that place you wanna take it all away. These ships are CAPITAL SHIPS... they are huge, it only makes sense that a ship of this class should be allowed to hold its own if need be. But you are making it so it wont even be able to defend itself if i don't have a gang there to assign fighters to. Me being able to directly control 5 fighters on my own without anyone else there is just -blam!-. We are talking about carriers and motherships here who by all rights should be able to control vast amounts of fighters on their own. CCP, your player base has invested too much in these capitals for you to ruin them in this fashion. Rethink this idea so I'm not stuck with a really expensive piece of junk please.
Venec Rave Technologies Inc. C0VEN	Posted - 2007.10.21 16:25:00 - [66] TBH, I would expect in this thread more mocking goonalts.
TooGay4you	Posted - 2007.10.21 16:25:00 - [67] Is that a bob thread ?
Venec Rave Technologies Inc. C0VEN	Posted - 2007.10.21 16:27:00 - [68] Originally by: Too*4you Is that a bob thread ? Aaa... much better.
stummer	Posted - 2007.10.21 16:32:00 - [69] Seems to be a badly thought out answer for a question that is poor to start with, It will make a carrier into a well tanked domi, oh wait without a drone bonus, and a 1.2 billion isk ship should really have an advantage over a 100 mill isk ship, carrier are far from a solo pawn machine, Fighter them self are very vunrable to be wiped out straight away in any fight and at 15 mill a pop it hardly cheap to loose a wave of ten, the dps isnt that sodding amazing any way rating it up there with gank fitted BS, not gaming breaking in any way, MOMs will put out seriously more dps but for a 50 bill ship it does seem unfair for them to have a advantage, if this is implemented where do i write to get my isk back for the carrier skill book again?
Alyxa Mahan	Posted - 2007.10.21 16:32:00 - [70] Originally by: Trass You know any other so big MMORPG (not MMO) and company that theoretically have potential to make games like quake4 or battlefield 3? (but are to lazy to fix this game, and instead of it they killing their product). No? So STFU. q.e.d. Seriously, that made even less sense than your previous post. As far as the MMORPG market goes, CCP and EVE is a dwarf, and a small one, and the only reason EVE has as many subscribers as it has is that there's simply zero competition in its niche. Simple brainstorming about little changes like this one resulting in some form of DOOOOM! outcry is the norm in every single game on the market. Its blatantly obvious CCP constantly stumbles into situations they didn't expect when giving the players new toys, another common standard in that industry btw. Ask them what problem they see, and then talk it through, don't go all insane, screaming to fire CCP staff to keep your latest greatest toy.

Xaldor	Posted - 2007.10.21 16:36:00 - [71] I think it is silly to have a capital ships that are effectively outgunned by a battleship. I think it is silly to assign 5 fighter to a pilot that has no drone skills. I think it is silly to assign 5 fighters to a ship where the fighters are probably worth more than that other player's ship. It just makes no sense... none at all. The problem is not that Carriers are able to launch lots of fighters, that is what carriers are meant to do. The problem is you do not want fleets of carriers without support ships. You do not want Carriers as front-line siege breakers. Why are they being used in those roles? Because they have no reall effective predator. Thanks to the comical Dreadnoughts and Titan designs, people only deploy them for support roles or comedy value. My suggestion is to overhaul Dreadnoughts, they are sadly lacking in terms of effectiveness, which is probably why they are not all that popular. Give them an overhaul, make a new line of Dreads that are capital ship hunters, floating glass cannons, make them antt-Carrier and capital ship hunters of the battlefield. The damage output of a Dread is rather pathetic, give them massive capital ships damage dealing potential with non-existant smaller ship damage, with a luke warm tank making them utterly dependant on fleet to stay alive with only one purpose, protect a fleet operation from enemy capitals. They should be rather economical because they wont have the life expectancy of other capitals or have a lot of versatile roles they can perform. They are just good at engaging enemy capital ships. But, if a Cap hunter gets within range of a Carrier, it should absolutely sodomize the Carrier. Because there is no natural predator to the Carrier, they are being used with their massive tanking potential to be frontline siege breakers. Put in a predator into the mix and you will change the way people will deploy and use their carriers without introducing lame carrier limitations. You just have to understand WHY people are using carriers as they are. My second suggestion is introduce mine deployment, floating mines which you can launch with a minelaying module which target capital ships that get within their effective range. They should do ridiculous damage to capital sized ships that get close to them and forces the capital ships to rely on smaller support craft to perform mineclearing duties. Just make it so you need a module to be able to detect and target mines, as they would have built in sensor dampeners which are too advanced for drones to detect and engage. Mines should also have an effective range significantly greater than any smartbomb type device. It opens up a whole new type of engagement possibilities with fleets luring enemy capitals into traps, using mines also as a means of defence against capitals. Capitals just need more predators and people will use them in a more realistic manner.
General StarScream THE DECEPTIC0NS	Posted - 2007.10.21 16:45:00 - [72] I think this is nice ide, the carrier blob is a problem, and needs to be solved. a Battlship could do more raw Dam than a carrier.
Coolgamer Minmatar Res Publica R i s e	Posted - 2007.10.21 16:54:00 - [73] Edited by: Coolgamer on 21/10/2007 16:54:17 Carrier blob looool man seriously play EvE more often anyway and one more silly idea that is not one but just something to proove "someone is working somewhere" no it's not an idea, it's a nerf, it's a fun spoiler, it's bad forget this idea, and if you need far better suggestions picked from others, read my post there : http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=618279&page=19
oniplE NED-Clan R i s e	Posted - 2007.10.21 16:55:00 - [74] What a horrible, horrible idea. Quite possibly the worst idea of CCP yet.
Lilan Kahn Amarr The Littlest Hobos Insurgency	Posted - 2007.10.21 17:02:00 - [75] Can you stupid arses figure out wtf you whant carriers for? first you nerfed the fighter bombing thing, and you whanted peopel to front line there carriers for max ownage (that is fun not sitting at a pos) a well geared carrier atm got round abut 1200 dps with a decent tank. So now you whant to change it to 5 fighters a time? A thorax is gonna have more dps than a carrier wtf is up with that? Dont do this changeing abut willy nilly make up your ******* mind and stick to it.
Dogfighter	Posted - 2007.10.21 17:08:00 - [76] Don't you have anything else to balance or to implement? Oh come on! Sincerely, such nerf is a really BAD IDEA. Nerfs usually don't improve EVE, in this case this is just waste of time. Many players would benefit of other ideas that state on the forums for months than just another nerf. What ideas? Here are many, I think all players find at least one or two of these attractive: - Implement a functional share system! Why should I buy shares from a corporation if I have absolutely NO warranty that it won't be another scam? - What is a space simulation game without a decent bounty system? It is EVE It simply doesn't work right. - Create some larger and better tech 2 haulers that can fight back with guns, like in the movies! An intermediate ship between common haulers and huge freighters. - Years ago we could find nice systems to mine virtually everywhere in high-sec. Oh good noob times! Now you can't find a single kernite asteroid there. And why always kernite? - 0.5 systems are too secure and 0.4 too unsecure; a softer transition would be great for new players that like risks! - A.I. is TOO WEAK. Rats don't scramble, web or EW much, nor change their targets like human players. They don't really camp gates like humans. - Offline POSs should not regenerate their shields. Are they offline or not!?! - It was a deception the first time I saw a POS. It is a strange disconnected collection of junk to me. Cable, pipe and connection structures with range limitation would be nice! Platforms, and bigger model structures too! Where are the animations and special effects? Industrial structures could also anchor and come online in LESS time! - You have several new players coming online in the next few months. Do you think they are satisfied with the actual tech 1 ships they can pilot, and the long time they have to train just to pilot a better ship so they don't get always killed as soon as they put their head inside a low-sec system with something bigger than a frigate? - Some crazy ppl love to haul stuff. And you don't seem to be interested in implementing a NPC transport system. Nowadays, courier missions are crap. What about a courier mission system where Interbus intermediates the process wrapping the cargo to avoid exploits and huge collaterals? The mission creator would be hidden on the contract. If a transporter looses the wrapped cargo, the mission would be available again. If the mission time ends, the mission creator looses the ISK used to create the mission but receives the cargo back. Player Owned Station could have a special trade office upgrade to allow Interbus agents work on their stations! - Moon mining is becoming a problem. After invention, moon material prices became too high. You can't find any free promethium or dysprosium moons anywhere in 0.0 space. A tech 2 moon harvesting array with VERY HIGH CPU AND POWERGRID costs would help and make the POS weaker . - It is still a pain in the @@@ haul moon materials to high sec. A tech 2 freighter that jumps as far as a dread would be great! With rigs and fitting slots please! People use dreads for this purpose!!! Rorqual is CRAP: it doesn't transport compressed moon material, and have too many separated compartments (hangar, cargo bay, haulers inside it). - POSs could have a new industrial structure to produce tech 2 ship components with greater efficiency and speed than stations. - What about customizable textures on my ships?! That would be nice! Start with simple logos, then bigger textures or color modifications. Customizable model parts would be the perfection fr a game like EVE. I would like to pilot ships I have designed and show them to my friends, even if a custom original blueprint would cost billions of ISK on TQ server. They could be created using another ship's attributes, without modifications. - Some ship models are really ugly. Create a voting system, so players can decide the best models!
L Cross	Posted - 2007.10.21 17:15:00 - [77] OMFG! OK so we are now turning Carriers into Battleship with alot of shield and no turrets. This means we are only a freaking logistic ship. Why not make Logistics 5 a pre - requisite for carrier now. And how about we make up 2 more skills one for drones one for ships Drone skill: Drone Stupidity Rank (18) Attributes: Waste your time training this skill as a prerequisite to a new and worthless skill: advanced drone interfacing. Waste your entire life in fact and kill yourself to find out that the 120 days required for carrier 5, advanced drone interface 5, and fighters 5 just got turned into dog **! Yay we are CCP hear us fart and queef into the night! Next skill: Super Stupid DEADVANCEMENT Spaceship command Rank(200) Attributes: Want to use a carrier? ZOMGZ You are a stupid dumby. So to prove how stupid you are, we are going to make you train this 200 RANK skill as a pre requisite to carrier! wootz! Go kill yourself! way to go and kill carriers CCP can we please rename carriers and moms "POS Healers" so they have an accurate description of the name. HONESTLY, NOT EVERYONE WHO OWNS A CARRIER PARTICIPATES IN HUGE WARS BECAUSE WE DONT ALL HAVE SUPER ALIEN WARE COMPUTERS!!!! Instead of coming up with stupidity (who let this guy transfer out of the mail room?????!!! WTF) How about we fix lag! How about we fix bugs! How about we prevent cornering of NPC market by isk farmers 2 seconds before downtime by making the npc market reset at random intervals. How about we FIX EVE BEFORE WE DECIDE TO SCREW IT UP FOR EVERYONE! and for complaining individuals who think this is great idea. Get out of your battleship. Get into a capital ship which cost billions and billions train the skills which take upto a year or more and then put the same face on. Holy dog batman. How could we come up with a worse idea!!! I'm apalled. Just when I thought CCP was doing a good job they come up with a good ole "idea" to all the customers. In eve you fly spaceships. You start small and you get bigger. This has been said before but its like training yourself to be SLOWER since each ship is slower and slower (excludeabond please) Now we got carriers dreads and titans which are zomg slow. Now lets make a carrier- no turrets no hardpoints. make it stupidly expensive. Turn it into a paperweight. This is as bad as a dictor killing a titan. hey lets do isk counting here 30m dictor = trillion isk titan wootz! BALANCE IS THIS GUYS SUPER SPECIALTY!! YAY!! /me goes back to TECH 1 FRIGATE maybe if I get lucky you wont those right? because if BS > carrier then next nerf is cruiser > BS next one of course is frig > cruiser velator for the win ***s! I can't believe this upcoming nerf: BS gets 2 hardpoints and reduction of power grid by 95% upcoming nerf ALL SHIPS: velocity reduced 95% ALL SHIPS: Warp speed reduced to a cap of .125au/sec how about we do exactly what other game companies love to do: make a game nerf it so bad that everyone hates it sit with your thumbs up your ass and wonder why you dont make money with subscriptions anymore. and finally: reminisce about the "good old days" before you **ed the whole game up way to go 0/10 and kill yourself
Isanoe nothwood Amarr Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.10.21 17:30:00 - [78] Sometimes CCP does good things, and sometime we wonder where do you find thoses stupid ideas ? totaly against.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.10.21 17:32:00 - [79] Oh ** off BOB. This is no big nerf at all, this is just *** awesome. I AM DISGUSTED when i see 2 BS flying around, you get a gang together and the cyno lights up and the carriers drop in. Mind you, we have our own capitals, but its just *** ghey. Its stupid when people try to pirate in faction ships (which they enjoy) and the damn thing gets killed after 2 days in lowsec. Why? Because a mothership and carrier are used to act as SOLO PWNING mobiles, which are near IMPOSSIBLE to stop. Why is it impossible? Because they drop in, deal 2500 DPS (MS) while being invulnerable for EW and than cyno out 1 minute lateron. Where does the rescue gang step in? What the real problem is for BOB is that with carriers you could take on HUGE odds vs BS(sniper)gangs, just make a circle tank and pick a target and boom it goes. Players should be stopped in doing this, OMG BOOHOO i paid 1.2 bil for this carrier and i have platinum insurance and dont lose jack-** compared to what i am capable off. Im loving this plans and i own a carrier and dreadnaught. What i can do is simply assign these drones to the people around me. For a carrier it isnt THAT hard: Launch 5 assign, launch 5 keep those for yourself. Thats it, if you have so much problems with that, you are using your carrier wrong. Carriers are heavy duty support ships for helping other people in the fleet/gang out, just like dreadnaughts are specialised tools to make POS killing faster. You are just using your carriers for the wrong thing. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
ElCoCo KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.21 17:36:00 - [80] I don't see a problem that needs changing zulupark. The risk involved to using capships (yeah besides lowsec MS use) greatly outweighs their benefit.

ElCoCo KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.21 17:39:00 - [81] Oh on second thought, I see a problem... your inability to implement dynamic load balancing even if you see that it's the only way forward In a couple of years, instead of fighters the carriers will have single "battleship pets" in your half arsed efforts to decrease lag.
Wodanonline Pringles Inc. STYX.	Posted - 2007.10.21 17:41:00 - [82] i guess they just put a new guy on the worst place he could be in. see how ppl would react and blame it all on him if it goas bad. well you obviously notice this change will not be apreciated i hope you act to the opinion of your paying customers. and to put it more precise to your long term paying customers as they are affected most.
Valandril Caldari Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.10.21 17:48:00 - [83] My account expire in 1 month, if this change kicks in, i'm not buying another, nor for my main nor for my alts. Why ? Because this move carriers even MORE right-outside-pos-shield instead going right into battle which is just plain stupid and **** up, let me play with my carrier, not hug pos forcefield with it. Seriously whats the point now to field carriers other than make repair chain of them and keep killing hostile ships (which would go awfully slow with only carriers on your side). Don't even say traige, its pointless, u will cap out before u say "mary christmas", u will be stuck for 10 minutes and 99% of ppl will be outside your remote repping range soon anyway. So ccp, stop listening to whining and start thinking instead, because capitals is where eve should aim (theyr more resistant to lag, theyr tactical, theyr remote repping, and its very hard to instapop them). --- Battlecarriers !**
Keflin Geard The Circle STYX.	Posted - 2007.10.21 17:49:00 - [84] The problem with Moms/carriers is the way there fighters are represented in combat, not with there function. Stop treating fighters as individual entities; have them represented as a single unit with the hit points/damage of the total fighter units assigned to a target. WouldnÆt this greatly reduce the number crunching the game has to do? Moving the goalposts so drastically on ship classes that are now ubiquitous is going to really upset a TON of eve players. MoM pilots especially have skilled for years and paid many billions of isk to acquire and fit there ship, not to mention the raw number of hours invested. And this mod threatens to take all the fun out of flying one. Who the hell wants to sit on a POS and assign fighters in lieu of actually being in a battle?
Fusedbrain Amarr Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.21 17:56:00 - [85] Edited by: Fusedbrain on 21/10/2007 17:57:28 I'm not one to post on these forums. But I have to say that this nerf is just silly. If you happen to run into a carrier with you BS you should realize you could be in trouble. This game is starting to make no sense. I have skilled for my carrier for what I perceive to be a long time and this just might be what breaks this game for me. I'm as of now removing my 5 accounts from automatic billing. Good move CCP keep going and you'll ruin a decent game. I hope you're just having a brain fart. Fusedbrain
Benn Helmsman Caldari Dark Prophecy Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.21 18:00:00 - [86] Edited by: Benn Helmsman on 21/10/2007 18:02:08 Edited by: Benn Helmsman on 21/10/2007 18:00:26 Originally by: Valandril My account expire in 1 month, if this change kicks in, i'm not buying another, nor for my main nor for my alts. Why ? Because this move carriers even MORE right-outside-pos-shield instead going right into battle which is just plain stupid and ****** up, let me play with my carrier, not hug pos forcefield with it. Seriously whats the point now to field carriers other than make repair chain of them and keep killing hostile ships (which would go awfully slow with only carriers on your side). Don't even say traige, its pointless, u will cap out before u say "mary christmas", u will be stuck for 10 minutes and 99% of ppl will be outside your remote repping range soon anyway. So ccp, stop listening to whining and start thinking instead, because capitals is where eve should aim (theyr more resistant to lag, theyr tactical, theyr remote repping, and its very hard to instapop them). May i have your stuff then? I would like to have a carrier, because they will be still awesome. Add: everyone who wants to quit: contract your stuff to me, i will put it to good use!
Armoured C Gallente Deviance Inc DeStInY.	Posted - 2007.10.21 18:05:00 - [87] wow such a dumbass idea notice that most of the people saying it a good idea have probably never been in 0.0 or even in low sec go home carebears
Valandril Caldari Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.10.21 18:10:00 - [88] Originally by: MOS DEF This is no nerf guys. You don't see the bigger picture. This is step one of many utterly stupid changes to drive the playerbase away to finally fix the lag. Word :D:D /me throw beer at mos def --- Battlecarriers !
Dogfighter	Posted - 2007.10.21 18:13:00 - [89] Quote: May i have your stuff then? I would like to have a carrier, because they will be still awesome. Add: everyone who wants to quit: contract your stuff to me, i will put it to good use! Bah, you must be a noob.
Gyle Caldari Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.10.21 18:15:00 - [90] Originally by: SpaceTrucker 3000 I love this idea. The whiners crying in this thread are mostly cap-blobbers: they jump carriers and motherships en masse and lock down systems with so much lag that it's impossible to do anything. There are so many fighter drones that only another blob of caps can counter them, since battleships and command ships melt in miliseconds. However being able to deploy unlimited fighters and drones isn't that a good idea. While carriers usually have 17-18 fighters, they can bring virtually an unlimited amount of regular drones. A single carrier could provide enough heavy drones for a whole fleet, and that wouldn't help lag very much. Maybe this could be controlled with the bandwidth thing, and allow like 15 fighters and a few extra smaller drones. With this change at least a fleet would have to be more compensated. Instead of bringing 40 carriers and just raze everything without any kind of risk, you'd have to bring 20 or 30 smaller ships to control the drones. Finally support ships would have something to shoot at (each other), instead of just being meat shields waiting to be melted. Thats pathetic. you dont understand the game because you dont fly a cap. Lag happens and carriers presence impact minimaly on battles where theres 300 people in system anyway. Your new to the game and therefore want to nurf everyone who has been in the game longer than you. What you fail to understand is the nature and balancing of the game. and you are effectivly nulifying two class of ship and also relegating those players to the sidelines. Yea thats a great idea. BTW guys we are making a change to carriers and moms. yea yea i know you spent a lot of time and money on em. but weve decided "its taking us down a dangerous path" so now we just want you to spend the rest of you life at a pos with your drones assigned let all the other noobs in frigs do the fighting. Ill say again ccp ive played for three and a half years and ill quit instantly if you make this change.



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