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Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.10.29 08:50:00 - [301] Originally by: TOPSTER Post by the OP has to be the biggest whine thread ever. I fly every single race, and can definitely say that even with the torp changes, my blasterthron char will still pwn the crap out of my raven char with the exact equal skills in spaceship command tanking etc. nerfing gallente... what are you smoking? You apparently never met Terra Incognita dampener ravens (same for some Razor guys). Anyways 1 vs 1 doesn't exist in EVE so your "omg my blastertron will pwn your raven anywayz" is a pure b-s.
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.10.29 09:08:00 - [302] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Rhamnousia Biased crap -You want deimos to be as fast as a vaga and still be able to do the damage it does? I think not. To do THAT damage Deimos need to go to a web range and by the time you get in range for your heavy blasters the target often is either already dead or very soon to be dead. Rail deimos because of it in many cases will do MORE dps than blaster deimos as it doesn't have to slowboat its a from one target to another all the time. Same for Ishtar with heavy drones. Originally by:** Lyria Skydancer -Complaining about Ishtar? LoL. Seriosly you shouldnt complain about it. Before judging you really need to get some clue. Originally by: Lyria Skydancer -No gallente doesnt have a problem with cap compared to amarr. Gallente burns it cap slower then amarr and ontop of that they have more mids so fitting cap booster isnt a problem at all. Gallente have both cap problems (how many cap boosters do you think I can carry in my cargo?) AND ammo reloading problems. You as amarr dont have to reload ammo and can almost instantly change your crystals. Ask yourself why Revelation considered by many the best dread?
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.29 09:44:00 - [303] Originally by: Neena Valdi Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Rhamnousia Biased crap -You want deimos to be as fast as a vaga and still be able to do the damage it does? I think not. To do THAT damage Deimos need to go to a web range and by the time you get in range for your heavy blasters the target often is either already dead or very soon to be dead. Rail deimos because of it in many cases will do MORE dps than blaster deimos as it doesn't have to slowboat its a from one target to another all the time. Same for Ishtar with heavy drones. Originally by:** Lyria Skydancer -Complaining about Ishtar? LoL. Seriosly you shouldnt complain about it. Before judging you really need to get some clue. Originally by: Lyria Skydancer -No gallente doesnt have a problem with cap compared to amarr. Gallente burns it cap slower then amarr and ontop of that they have more mids so fitting cap booster isnt a problem at all. Gallente have both cap problems (how many cap boosters do you think I can carry in my cargo?) AND ammo reloading problems. You as amarr dont have to reload ammo and can almost instantly change your crystals. Ask yourself why Revelation considered by many the best dread? Slowboat? Deimos isnt really what I would call a slow ship. Ishtar: Uhm what is wrong with this ship, dear? Cap thing: You know its alot of bull. You know you have enough cap boosters to last through a fight. You can gank, mwd, tank and your targets are dead before you run out of boosters. This primarily serves gallente best. Because gallente can abuse this and fit full speed (mwd), full gank (alot of cap usage) and full repping tank (alot of cap usage). Since they got good tanking (but rep based) and the best gank and the means to get into range (mwd) they have an upper hand in smaller engagements. This is no secret. Crystals dont instant reload and WTF does a dread have to do with sub capital ships. Nothing and this proves your limited knowlege of amarr ships. And how often do you run out of ammo in smaller engagements? You know your arguments are crap, infact we all know. You fail.
Scaramunga Scaramai Amarr Filthy Scum	Posted - 2007.10.29 10:22:00 - [304] the Revelation is considered the best dread at POS sieging as it does amazing damage with no ammo useage just cap o_O or am i missing something?
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.29 10:33:00 - [305] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 29/10/2007 10:32:49 Originally by: Scaramunga Scaramai the Revelation is considered the best dread at POS sieging as it does amazing damage with no ammo useage just cap o_O or am i missing something? This only indicates the problem with sub capital lasers. Dont you find it odd that lasers seem to be working superior on dreads but no on the other amarr ships?
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.10.29 11:25:00 - [306] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 29/10/2007 10:32:49 Originally by: Scaramunga Scaramai the Revelation is considered the best dread at POS sieging as it does amazing damage with no ammo useage just cap o_O or am i missing something? This only indicates the problem with sub capital lasers. Dont you find it odd that lasers seem to be working superior on dreads but no on the other amarr ships? Cause POS dont Omni tank and its a stationary object, instead of ZOOOM ZOOM nano-POS. Would be cool for minmatar though...a nano-pos, if it loses it just mwdes away. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
GodsWork	Posted - 2007.10.29 15:29:00 - [307] Ohh My God People actualy took the time to read and understand what vostok wrote and then log in and reply not just once but a whole woppin 11pages. Dear lord Armaggedon is near.....
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.10.29 15:49:00 - [308] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Slowboat? Deimos isnt really what I would call a slow ship. Ishtar: Uhm what is wrong with this ship, dear? Cap thing: You know its alot of bull. You know you have enough cap boosters to last through a fight. You can gank, mwd, tank and your targets are dead before you run out of boosters. This primarily serves gallente best. Because gallente can abuse this and fit full speed (mwd), full gank (alot of cap usage) and full repping tank (alot of cap usage). Since they got good tanking (but rep based) and the best gank and the means to get into range (mwd) they have an upper hand in smaller engagements. This is no secret. Crystals dont instant reload and WTF does a dread have to do with sub capital ships. Nothing and this proves your limited knowlege of amarr ships. And how often do you run out of ammo in smaller engagements? You know your arguments are crap, infact we all know. You fail. With Deimos effective shooting range is < 5km. At a general gate engagement that means you have to mwd ~15-35km to get in range. Same thing with drones, they need to get to the target before they do anything. Except vaga, most cruisers and BS go roughly ~2+km/s, so starting from ~7.5-17.5s+ time lost in acceleration to get in firing range. If there are ships that have fit some more reasonable guns, they can start firing effectively from the moment they uncloak... That is a lot of damage potential lost due to close range combat philosophy... If you can't see that by now, there is no point in trying to explain it... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:14:00 - [309] Edited by: Neena Valdi on 29/10/2007 18:14:48 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Slowboat? Deimos isnt really what I would call a slow ship. Lyria you never flew deimos. Deimos IS slow ship. 1.5km/s mwd speed and low agility is as slow as battlecruisers. Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Ishtar: Uhm what is wrong with this ship, dear? Right now nothing is wrong. Removing the ability to field 5 heavies will make Ishtar absolutely useless HAC. Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Cap thing: You know its alot of bull. You know you have enough cap boosters to last through a fight. You can gank, mwd, tank and your targets are dead before you run out of boosters. This primarily serves gallente best. Because gallente can abuse this and fit full speed (mwd), full gank (alot of cap usage) and full repping tank (alot of cap usage). Another nice portion of "theorycraft". Yes, I can carry cap boosters enough for... whole 10 minutes of fight. Wonderful. Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Since they got good tanking (but rep based) and the best gank and the means to get into range (mwd) they have an upper hand in smaller engagements. This is no secret. Best gank is deimos with close to no tank. Ishtar with ogre 2's does only 470 dps and only thermal damage (check base resistance for most ships if you still have questions). Less then 400 dps with berserkers and they dont work well against shield tankers and amarr ships with high base explosive resistance on armor. Little over 300 dps with sentry drones and their tracking is no good. So after the nerf Ishtar will not be able to do even that dps. It will do same dps as t1 cruisers. Amazing. Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Crystals dont instant reload and WTF does a dread have to do with sub capital ships. Nothing and this proves your limited knowlege of amarr ships. And how often do you run out of ammo in smaller engagements? You know your arguments are crap, infact we all know. You fail. EVE is not only small engagements. Snipermega running out of cap firing 7 guns only in 2-3 minutes. You really have no clue if you really think that gallente ships have no cap problems. They do and ON top of that we do need to reload weapon or rely on slow and stupid drones.
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:25:00 - [310] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 29/10/2007 10:32:49 Originally by: Scaramunga Scaramai the Revelation is considered the best dread at POS sieging as it does amazing damage with no ammo useage just cap o_O or am i missing something? This only indicates the problem with sub capital lasers. Dont you find it odd that lasers seem to be working superior on dreads but no on the other amarr ships? Tell us more how they dont work good on apoc in a lag fleet fights. While I have to sit and wait 10+ minutes trying to reload my guns apoc can keep firing.
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:28:00 - [311] Originally by: Scaramunga Scaramai the Revelation is considered the best dread at POS sieging as it does amazing damage with no ammo useage just cap o_O Exactly.
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:29:00 - [312] Originally by: Neena Valdi Originally by: Scaramunga Scaramai the Revelation is considered the best dread at POS sieging as it does amazing damage with no ammo useage just cap o_O Exactly. Also, XL sized pulses still have quite a nice range, so you can effectively use them, making it do a lot more dps at pos ops... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:26:00 - [313] Originally by: Laboratus Originally by: Neena Valdi Originally by: Scaramunga Scaramai the Revelation is considered the best dread at POS sieging as it does amazing damage with no ammo useage just cap o_O Exactly. Also, XL sized pulses still have quite a nice range, so you can effectively use them, making it do a lot more dps at pos ops... Now youre closing in on the problem mate. This is actually the odd thing about the laser-range advantage. The thing is pulses have perfect range to do their jobs if you look at the XL and L (ie mega pulses). Problem is once you go down to medium and small pulses they lose their range advantage. This is a bit tricky to explain but if youve flown amarr youll know the feeling. Medium and small pulses range advantage is basically removed by a combination of the pvp environment, like speed, typical gate ranges, web ranges and scramble ranges. Beams on the other hand serves small and mediums better then large mostly. Because medium and small beams have a range that is not too long for the typical pvp environment. But our large beams (mega beam and tachs) have too short range for sniping roles, youd want more range. Yes we get more dps from our long range weapons but its only because they have shorter range, same parallell goes to short range weapons. blasters highest damage but shortest range there for example. This is why (atleast this is partly the problem) our battleships do well (except for crapolypse ofc) but our cruiser and frig sized are hurting a bit.
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:45:00 - [314] That would be quite easily fixed by changing webs and scrams to 3 different modules for frig, cruiser and battleship sizes with corresponding fitting requirements. Frig webs for 3-5km range current effectiveness and BS modules for current range and max 50% effectiveness, cruiser mods being in between... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.29 21:06:00 - [315] Originally by: Laboratus That would be quite easily fixed by changing webs and scrams to 3 different modules for frig, cruiser and battleship sizes with corresponding fitting requirements. Frig webs for 3-5km range current effectiveness and BS modules for current range and max 50% effectiveness, cruiser mods being in between... Thats tricky. Frigs would get destroyed by bigger ships and frigs would be left out to fight other frigs only. What would the point be in flying frigs at all? The problem basically lies in mwd's. These make the speeds in eve get out of line and destroying the range balances. If it were up to me Id either nerf them or remove them. If everything had AB as speed mod alot of these range balance issues would be balanced tbh.
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.10.30 07:06:00 - [316] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Laboratus That would be quite easily fixed by changing webs and scrams to 3 different modules for frig, cruiser and battleship sizes with corresponding fitting requirements. Frig webs for 3-5km range current effectiveness and BS modules for current range and max 50% effectiveness, cruiser mods being in between... Thats tricky. Frigs would get destroyed by bigger ships and frigs would be left out to fight other frigs only. What would the point be in flying frigs at all? The problem basically lies in mwd's. These make the speeds in eve get out of line and destroying the range balances. If it were up to me Id either nerf them or remove them. If everything had AB as speed mod alot of these range balance issues would be balanced tbh. Could be. However, I don't thing that larger ships would fit frig sized webs, since they can't control range like frigs can. Even with a BS web on a frig fitting MWD, the frig would still happily go 2-4km/s. Thats not too bad imho... Yea, webs and MWD should balanced a bit. Maybe cut the modifier of those in half or something. Both are a bit imba atm and determine how fights go really... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.30 08:02:00 - [317] Originally by: Laboratus Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Laboratus That would be quite easily fixed by changing webs and scrams to 3 different modules for frig, cruiser and battleship sizes with corresponding fitting requirements. Frig webs for 3-5km range current effectiveness and BS modules for current range and max 50% effectiveness, cruiser mods being in between... Thats tricky. Frigs would get destroyed by bigger ships and frigs would be left out to fight other frigs only. What would the point be in flying frigs at all? The problem basically lies in mwd's. These make the speeds in eve get out of line and destroying the range balances. If it were up to me Id either nerf them or remove them. If everything had AB as speed mod alot of these range balance issues would be balanced tbh. Could be. However, I don't thing that larger ships would fit frig sized webs, since they can't control range like frigs can. Even with a BS web on a frig fitting MWD, the frig would still happily go 2-4km/s. Thats not too bad imho... Yea, webs and MWD should balanced a bit. Maybe cut the modifier of those in half or something. Both are a bit imba atm and determine how fights go really... Yeah agreed. There was this awsome thread with an idea about webs. To make them kinda like weapons, ie they have sig radius etc and different ranges. Too bad I couldnt find it. But yeah something needs to be done about this speed and web mess.
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.10.30 08:05:00 - [318] Very true... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Markus Aurelian	Posted - 2007.10.30 08:49:00 - [319] Originally by: Rhamnousia myrm with 5 heavy drones t2 and 6 ion blaster IIs do at most 550dps. harb can touch 900dps. if both buffer tank, harb would come out on top coz of having more resist. you lost your credibility right there. first off, harb has no tanking bonus and the same number of lowslots, so i really dont see it having better resists. take into account its lower dps output and the myrm's tanking bonus being better suited for active tanking, and they myrm will outtank and outdps the harb every time. secondly, there is no way that a harb with any sort of reasonable fit(i got 917 using 6 chelm HS, heavy pulse II's, a rof and damage rig, with hammerhead II's) can have 900 dps (whereas a myrm actually can, while still fitting a tank of some sort). Meatwad FTW
Arkanjuca Caldari The Undertakers Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.10.30 09:05:00 - [320] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Yeah agreed. There was this awsome thread with an idea about webs. To make them kinda like weapons, ie they have sig radius etc and different ranges. Too bad I couldnt find it. But yeah something needs to be done about this speed and web mess. Very true. This kind of distortion generates a lot of problems, like the lack of role for the AFs, the abuse of nanostuff (today its nanohacs) and etc... -- "Tackling you in the system next door"
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.30 11:31:00 - [321] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 30/10/2007 11:31:45 Originally by: Arkanjuca Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Yeah agreed. There was this awsome thread with an idea about webs. To make them kinda like weapons, ie they have sig radius etc and different ranges. Too bad I couldnt find it. But yeah something needs to be done about this speed and web mess. Very true. This kind of distortion generates a lot of problems, like the lack of role for the AFs, the abuse of nanostuff (today its nanohacs) and etc... They should really nerf speed mods even more. There should never be a case where the following isnt true: speed: frig > cruiser > battlecruiser > battleship Speed bonuses to cruisers, like the vaga, should never be in such disproportion to frig (atleast interceptor) speeds. Speed cruisers might be ok to go faster then frigs but not faster then interceptors. Battleship should be slow, they shouldnt be able to catch a cruiser even if the BS has a mwd and the cruiser an AB. Heck battleships are catching frigs that only have Ab on them, this is seriously out of line. Fix speed, give webs different size with sig radius application like on weapon system size and lasers will be balanced all by themselves.
Arkanjuca Caldari The Undertakers Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.10.30 11:35:00 - [322] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer There should never be a case where the following isnt true: speed: frig > cruiser > battlecruiser > battleship QFT -- "Tackling you in the system next door"
Manta Avoid	Posted - 2007.10.30 11:44:00 - [323] I'm not sure if the current dev's realise yet; Nerfing an object makes many people unhappy. However, bringing the target's competition up to the same level will not make so many players unhappy, if done correctly. As I see it, Gallente are the masters of: Close Range Damage - Blasters are "unbeatable" for DPS at close range Drone Management - Bigger drone bays, damage & HP bonuses Why nerf Gallente ships in those areas? Perhaps make the other race's ships more effective in their best pursuits. That way, the game will still remain Rock-paper-scissors, instead of what it might turn out to be; rock-rock-paper. I'd like to see some more constructive changes to EVE, not nerfs.
Caffeine Junkie Caldari The Ministry Of Funny Walks	Posted - 2007.10.30 11:49:00 - [324] Originally by: Acoco Osiris The Thanatos is not the best carrier. The Phoenix and Archon both give it a run for its money. The torpedo change is NOT a Gallente nerf, it is a Caldari buff. Eos, I don't know enough to comment about. Black ops, from what I understand, won't be that great of a combat ship, and the usage on the jump drives will be horrendous. Phoenix is the dread, think you meant the Chimera?
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.30 11:51:00 - [325] Originally by: Manta Avoid I'm not sure if the current dev's realise yet; Nerfing an object makes many people unhappy. However, bringing the target's competition up to the same level will not make so many players unhappy, if done correctly. As I see it, Gallente are the masters of: Close Range Damage - Blasters are "unbeatable" for DPS at close range Drone Management - Bigger drone bays, damage & HP bonuses Why nerf Gallente ships in those areas? Perhaps make the other race's ships more effective in their best pursuits. That way, the game will still remain Rock-paper-scissors, instead of what it might turn out to be; rock-rock-paper. I'd like to see some more constructive changes to EVE, not nerfs. So would we all, blame ccp. First they bring out clearly overpowered ships like eos and myrmidon then they say amarr needs an oomph and what happens in the end? They nerf gallente and amarr oomph is still in the depths of the "forgotten stuff" closet.

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