Because people who play in high sec and who aren't alts of any other group aren't as passionate about the game.
And being passionate about the game is needed to become a CSM representative.. it's additional stress and work besides playing this game, which even after you did it to the best of your knowledge and ability in 90% of the cases earns you mockery and verbal abuse. For people who are just playing casually this is not feasible.
So the only ones, who rally for CSM and take the downsides are those who get something out of it for their group.

It's funny though.. a very large group, composed of casual players has no voice because of the nature of it's members.

Because people who play in high sec and who aren't alts of any other group aren't as passionate about the game.
And being passionate about the game is needed to become a CSM representative.. it's additional stress and work besides playing this game, which even after you did it to the best of your knowledge and ability in 90% of the cases earns you mockery and verbal abuse. For people who are just playing casually this is not feasible.
So the only ones, who rally for CSM and take the downsides are those who get something out of it for their group.

It's funny though.. a very large group, composed of casual players has no voice because of the nature of it's members.

gate

I won't go so far as to say that's the dumbest thing I've ever read on these forums, but it is the dumbest thing I've read today.

Why would casual high sec players need a CSM representative anyways?

Because people who play in high sec and who aren't alts of any other group aren't as passionate about the game.
And being passionate about the game is needed to become a CSM representative.. it's additional stress and work besides playing this game, which even after you did it to the best of your knowledge and ability in 90% of the cases earns you mockery and verbal abuse. For people who are just playing casually this is not feasible.
So the only ones, who rally for CSM and take the downsides are those who get something out of it for their group.

It's funny though.. a very large group, composed of casual players has no voice because of the nature of it's members.

There's been highsec delegates, not impossible that there will be new ones. But that wont happen as long as people don't care to vote.

The CSM has turned its collective gaze on the isk faucet that is the Incursions.

You haven't read a post by Met Worst or Lyrashae today then, have you?

There it is, that's all true.

It's not a problem about a shortage of suitable delegates, it's a problem of the apathy of most Highsec dwellers who simply remain ignorant about the entire CSM process. Or, knowing about the process, are simply are not bothered to vote as an odd, self-defeating form of "protest" on their part. This makes them think that in this way, they are then allowed to spew crap at a later date when they see things happening which they do not agree with. Then they blame the CSM for all their sorrows and woes, and "who voted for you anyway?" and "Highsec does not have a chance" and so on.

The candidates are there.

Vote - and have at least some modicum of inner peace knowing that when you have a gripe about something going-on in or with this game, you can at least voice your concern from a position of having being a participant.

Don't Vote - and have at least a modicum of decency to stop complaining like an unpaid hooker, knowing that you could not give a crap about ensuring that someone who was at least somewhat representing some of your interests and concerns, was not in the CSM - because of your little "non-contribution".

My only question for our future highsec candidates is which one of you is the best spoon thrower?

A load of drivel. It's not all apathy, it's not a lack of understanding, it's frustration at a ****** system.

People can't be bothered because it DOES NOT represent them properly. The sandbox in Eve ensures neccessity for large 0.0 alliance blocs (they HAVE to be big to survive). Highsec does NOT have the need to "survive" and it negates the neccessity for highsec to form up.

The CSM system fails at the fundamental level because it does NOT address that single intrinsic imbalance.

If you are so damned right that the status quo is fine and "works" then YOU have nothing to worry about anyway do you?

I'm not worried. What gives you the idea I'm worried?

And Met, while you throw generalizations around; deliberately misrepresent events and have your posts carefully dissected and disproved by people like Rubyporto I'll keep on thinking of you as a dummy. A whiny dummy.

Why do you worry what some random person on the internet thinks about you anyway? You have a CSM to take down. After all, with no CSM. No wait. You wanted 7-9 mini CSMs. No wait. It was geographical regions. No wait ...

Speaking of dissect posts. In context everything you're being a "whiny baby" about is valid reasoning. In context.

I'm putting forward alternatives, not trying, as you are, to defend the indefensible by trying to shoot the messenger.

C A M P !

My only question for our future highsec candidates is which one of you is the best spoon thrower?

I absolutley love the fact that hiseccers cannot point to a single existance of corruption within the CSM, and cannot admit, even to themselves, that the only reason that they are complaining is because CSM Mittens and CSM Darius like to enjoy a little suicide ganking and griefing (both not only allowed by CCP, but actually encouraged)

If you want a hisec rep, vote for the head of EVE-Uni, simple as that.

I bet none of you whiny pricks even bothered to take your cheetoh stained fingers and clicked the vote button at the last election.

v0v

Whenever highsec people get into the CSM, they make really dumb changes. Like only allowing 1 JB per system. What's the point? It just makes travel even more tedious. Leave the nullsec game mechanics to those that actually know how they work and have lived with them for years; You don't hire an electrician to fix your toilet... do you?

You haven't read a post by Met Worst or Lyrashae today then, have you?

We in the Gate Camp party promise to perform YMCA outside CCP's office in Reykjavik if we get elected.

Get my name right if you're going to insult me, little girl.

Bears dont care about politics....
We do our carebear stuff ....
And.....
When CSM/CCP destroy our fun...
We leave

I'm not worried. What gives you the idea I'm worried?

And Met, while you throw generalizations around; deliberately misrepresent events and have your posts carefully dissected and disproved by people like Rubyporto I'll keep on thinking of you as a dummy. A whiny dummy.

Why do you worry what some random person on the internet thinks about you anyway? You have a CSM to take down. After all, with no CSM. No wait. You wanted 7-9 mini CSMs. No wait. It was geographical regions. No wait ...

^^^^^^^

[/Me giggles. Then titters. Then chuckles. Then howls]

Thank you for that. My faith, at least such as it ever is, in humanity is restored!

Those are not words I would ever have imagined I would illicit, maybe there's hope for me yet

The only election null has ever controlled was the last one. Are you implying that highseccers everywhere have given up after one election? Or that they gave up even before the outcome of the last one was assured? (I do recall a somewhat serious 'save the csm' campaign being run by mynxee or something similar.)

Highsec has the ability to be very well represented in the CSM they just lack the will or the desire to get it done.

BECAUSE ITS A GAME

Sorry to inform you that for some people EVE is not the center of their life, just a product they pay for. But I have to agree with former posters....WHO DOES NOT VOTE HAS NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN

Highsec dwellers are a bunch of retards that shouldn't even be allowed to vote.

Highsec dwellers are a bunch of retards that shouldn't even be allowed to vote.

I got a LOT of votes from Hisec last election, and those votes got me in.

Because people who play in high sec and who aren't alts of any other group aren't as passionate about the game.
And being passionate about the game is needed to become a CSM representative.. it's additional stress and work besides playing this game, which even after you did it to the best of your knowledge and ability in 90% of the cases earns you mockery and verbal abuse. For people who are just playing casually this is not feasible.
So the only ones, who rally for CSM and take the downsides are those who get something out of it for their group.

It's funny though.. a very large group, composed of casual players has no voice because of the nature of it's members.

People can't be bothered because it DOES NOT represent them properly.

A good portion of High Sec are alts of people that play elsewhere. Unlike Sov Null those that spend most of their time in High Sec don't have common interests, in fact many are diametrically opposed. Everyone in EVE knows the workings of High Sec space very well, but those that only stay in High Sec are often ignorant of Null, WH, and even Low Sec space, making them a poor choice of candidate.

I think despite their relatively small numbers Wormholers and Faction War players have a much better chance of getting good representation than any "High Sec candidate" that simply can't feasibly represent such a large diverse group of players.

I'd like to know more in detail about this discriminating and provoking statement that null and high sec are diametrically opposed. Why can't certian aspects of regional areas work together if they wish?

That wasn't what I said. I said that High Sec residence themselves have diametrically opposed interests, unlike Sov Nullsec which have mostly common interests. This in relation to game development and issues.

You talk about Sov Nullsec groups coming and "griefing" High Sec, but to me that makes little sense. Most of Nullsec also has Highsec alts. The most well known groups that have terms like "griefing" labeled to them, like Privateers, Orphange, TEARS etc are all High Sec groups, not Null, only Goons really stand out as a Null based group in that category.

Because people who play in high sec and who aren't alts of any other group aren't as passionate about the game.
And being passionate about the game is needed to become a CSM representative..

It's funny though.. a very large group, composed of casual players has no voice because of the nature of it's members. [:8)

I wouldn't say that, I know some very passionate people who base themselves in hisec, not including myself, and as mentioned elsewhere, I'll be running for CSM7.

Again, not quite true, as E-UNI proved in the CSM croud-sourcing last year.

As mentioned above, the problem is that there are very many voices in 'hisec', but very few large groups or coalitions as the situation does not demand it, so the votes get fragmented.

Because people who play in high sec and who aren't alts of any other group aren't as passionate about the game.
And being passionate about the game is needed to become a CSM representative.. it's additional stress and work besides playing this game, which even after you did it to the best of your knowledge and ability in 90% of the cases earns you mockery and verbal abuse. For people who are just playing casually this is not feasible.
So the only ones, who rally for CSM and take the downsides are those who get something out of it for their group.

It's funny though.. a very large group, composed of casual players has no voice because of the nature of it's members.

Actually, I would argue that many highsec dwellers are passionate about the game. I've met many. Lack of representation of highsec is not due to the populations habits as much as it is to do with the lack of resources and cohesion.

But, even if highsec did have solidarity, how long do you believe it would be before nullsec starts buying votes with their moongoo?

It's all rather pointless to even consider the issue with highsec representation until CCP makes a more formal organization of it and its execution. Until then participation by highsec members is wasted effort as they could never control the amount of wealth that nullsec does. Any cooperative effort by highsec to pool resources to do so will only result in mass scamming.

I'm not at all convinced that there's less money in hi-sec hands than there is in moon goo.

I've been in the CSM twice and was a High Sec candidate. I still am a High Sec candidate. In fact I am trying to build a political party for High Sec candidates.

That worked out really well last time, I hear.

Well, just get someone with a Pro High-Sec campaign and see how many supporters/voters he/she gets.

/thread

Yeah be voter participation to rebuild those npc corps for them to go back into.

be excellent to each other.



and yet i cant help feeling that a simple mechanic as you log in, eg:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

WE ARE CONSIDERING BALANCING INCURSIONS, DO YOU AGREE THAT WE SHOULD?

lots of info regarding reasons for and against goes here.

[ ] YES

[ ] NO

[ ] DONT CARE

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

would work a million times better than some showcase free-holidayathon like the current situation.

Before you **** on my bonfire about this you should know I dont care either way im all EvEd out atm, just throwing stuff out there while im still around

I can't answer specifically to the point. However, I would say that while there might be more isk (which I doubt) overall in HS, how many hands hold that isk? This goes back to cohesion and the lack of it in HS. Individually, even in small groups hs cannot compete financially with individuals in null.

Because people who play in high sec and who aren't alts of any other group aren't as passionate about the game.
And being passionate about the game is needed to become a CSM representative.. it's additional stress and work besides playing this game, which even after you did it to the best of your knowledge and ability in 90% of the cases earns you mockery and verbal abuse. For people who are just playing casually this is not feasible.
So the only ones, who rally for CSM and take the downsides are those who get something out of it for their group.

It's funny though.. a very large group, composed of casual players has no voice because of the nature of it's members.

Direct democracy is a terrible idea, even in EVE, for anything beyond the most general consensus of direction.

---

WE ARE CONSIDERING GIVING EVERYONE 1 BILLION ISK EVERY FRIDAY, DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD?

[X] YES

[ ] NO

[X] LOL

i did not suggest direct democracy, i suggested a consultation excercise. Instead of consulting the csm (and their personal/corp/alliance agendas) over these ideas then working with the feedback you are consulting everyone that logs in over a certain period. These people also have agendas and block voting is still possible.

a form of government in which people vote on policy initiatives directly, as opposed to a representative democracy in which people vote for representatives who then vote on policy initiatives

I can't answer specifically to the point. However, I would say that while there might be more isk (which I doubt) overall in HS, how many hands hold that isk? This goes back to cohesion and the lack of it in HS. Individually, even in small groups hs cannot compete financially with individuals in null.

I'm reasonably sure that the richest individuals in the game mostly operate in hi-sec.

I've also yet to see a convincing argument (that means ones with evidence and causal chains that don't involve lizard-people beaming mind-rays from their moonbase) that in game wealth affects CSM elections.

lol - are you running for csm, an alt of someone running for csm, a current csm alt, or just plain trolling? I guess they are all the same thing.

the context of your counter argument makes no sense and only serves to radically move the context of the original idea, as was no doubt your intention.

i did not suggest direct democracy, i suggested a consultation excercise. Instead of consulting the csm (and their personal/corp/alliance agendas) over these ideas then working with the feedback you are consulting everyone that logs in over a certain period. These people also have agendas and block voting is still possible.

technology allows us to quickly survey the views of an entire playerbase of major issues - ticking a box would certainly beat pew-pewing a statue in jita in terms of press coverage.

an argument to preserve the status quo here is an argument to keep the powerbase the same and that says a lot more about you and your motives than it does about the good or badness of my suggestion.

please do get an answer together - make sure you multiple quote and retort, or maybe take a little bit and quote out of context - you could even just attack the person instead of the argument. Whatever it is, good luck with that.

Carebears are not famous. Like me. Hate being a carebear

i did not suggest direct democracy, i suggested a consultation excercise. Instead of consulting the csm (and their personal/corp/alliance agendas) over these ideas then working with the feedback you are consulting everyone that logs in over a certain period. These people also have agendas and block voting is still possible.

Didn't the carebears have a CSM once? Iirc she threw spoons at the CCP devs and then broke the NDA by giving another developer info she learned during the CSM meetings.

You would never get a balanced answer that way. Take your hypothetical question and what the likely outcomes are:

(a) The players running Incursions would most likely NOT want them to be balanced.
(b) The players planning on running Incursions would most likely NOT want them to be balanced.
(c) The players who don't give a **** about Incursions would likely troll the responses.
(d) The players that hate Incursions will likely vote YES to have them balanced.
(e) Etc.

So what does that tell you? Where is the reasoned discussions the current CSM has with players on ideas (See the forum) and the concepts then taken to CCP with reasoning, etc?

I don't know man, it just seems like a good way to troll CCP.

lolz

Here's what you're failing to understand, spelled out for you.

The CSM is less about droning on about "The free people of EVE Online want blah blah blah and feel this is right because blah blah bah.." That **** sounds great, but in reality it doesn't accomplish anything. See the first five years of the CSM.

What the CSM is or should be more about is poking prodding and nudging CCP and hoping that their collective experience can stop any train wrecks in game design or at least mitigate the damage.

People are quick to scream :tinfoil: but I have yet to see any evidence of this and in fact there's quite a bit that suggests the contrary.

i think there should be 4 CSM categories in which players can run for

1. High Sec CSM

2. Low Sec CSM

3. Null Sec CSM

4. Wormspace CSM


this way everyone in eve can have a voice to represent them.

explain to me how this differs from now? the csm are as prone to all the things you listed as the other 30 thousand players. Are you suggesting that csm members are somehow of a higher intelligence level than average? Are you suggesting they are less invested in things that affect them personally? I think you need to reconsider.

Didn't the carebears have a CSM once? Iirc she threw spoons at the CCP devs and then broke the NDA by giving another developer info she learned during the CSM meetings.

Ironically Ankh is with Polaris Syndicate these days basing themselves out of NPC 0.0
shooting at a csm delegate
feels good man

A good portion of High Sec are alts of people that play elsewhere. Unlike Sov Null those that spend most of their time in High Sec don't have common interests, in fact many are diametrically opposed. Everyone in EVE knows the workings of High Sec space very well, but those that only stay in High Sec are often ignorant of Null, WH, and even Low Sec space, making them a poor choice of candidate.

I think despite their relatively small numbers Wormholers and Faction War players have a much better chance of getting good representation than any "High Sec candidate" that simply can't feasibly represent such a large diverse group of players.

Wait. When did it become fashionable to be emotionally invested or "passionate" about this game?

Aren't carebears shunned for taking this game too seriously?

Did someone forget to send out the memo?

Or can this just be the usual carebear-hating hypocritical mantra spewed by the "i-nevar-take-eve-seriously" elitists?

I care about the game deeply. I don't particularly care that Rifter #342 or Abaddon #32 or Hurricane #459 got deadified.

That's what we make fun of the carebears for. "WWWWWAAAAAAAHHHHHHH Tengu #1 got blowed up by ebil piewates, WWWWWAAAAAAHHHHH CCP FIX THIS OR I WILL GET EVERYONE EVER TO QUIT" That sort of stuff.

What kind of tengu, the 2billion loot pinata type?

Probably. Mind you, when I last lost a loot pinata, it was valued at ~1b and happened because I went out ratting while watching the AT. My response was to something like "aw shucks" and off buy a new one.

I try to avoid losing ratting ships, as their loss stings for the simple reason that it's entirely my fault I lost it.

Reason there are so few highsec CSM delegates (and now likely there won't be any, because CSM is too important to 00 people to allow loss of a single seat) is that there aren't any thousands strong monolithic blocks of players. So even if there are honest candidates (most "highsec candidates" are trolls or alts or pirates and griefers) they will just split the votes to no end.

Alliance ordering their troops to vote for their delegate is simple. But how can real highsec CSM candidate get the message spread? Forums? Most people ignore them like troll filled plague they are. There are no big channels or communities in game that have sufficient listeners.

And so in our pretty little democracy 70% of players don't get represented at all; or occasionally get one delegate.

There will never be a CSM representative for highsec...
Sorry to belabor the obvious, but you do know that Trebor Deadow, longest serving CSM member, is from highsec?

A few of the 3400-odd votes I got last time were even from Goons, though no doubt they'll claim they were drunk at the time...

Could you please report them to, at your option, (1) local Commissariat, (2) Ministry of Propaganda, (3) Local in any GS-frequented area.

We'll take it from there, thanks

If any highsec representative has a shot at getting, if not into the Circle of Seven, at least to the Oval of Fourteen, it would be Kelduum Revaan.

True but he wouldn't really be a "highsec rep" - he'd be more about EVE in general than focused on just highsec and the issues there.

I have spent time in most parts of the game, nullsec sov (in The Initiative), lowsec and nullsec (in DNS), hisec and WH's (my industrial main).