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Zemeckis R	Posted - 2007.11.29 17:27:00 - [1] i don't want to talk about the brutal, disgraceful and senseless nerf to the gallente ships (basically all of them) they are so many i writed a long post explaining everything in the details, but i've decided to give just 2 words, 'couse i'm sure you already know everything well drones are no longer able to insta-regen shield when scooped to drone bay on the test server drone ships are failing it is extremely simple to destroy drones, there are soooo many ways and all of them are extremely efficients this for drone boats is a shame, 'couse loosing their offenses capabilities, they just have to wait for the explosion RIP droneships
Iteken Hotori Minmatar Eve Defence Force Insurgency	Posted - 2007.11.29 17:28:00 - [2] First my wang exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected])
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.11.29 17:30:00 - [3] ...and this is bad why.....? --- planetary interaction idea!
Jupiter Sun	Posted - 2007.11.29 17:30:00 - [4] equip a remote repper in your highs to fix your drones and stop depending upon a soon to be dead lame mechanic.
Mannheim Wolf Caldari Earned In Blood Black Sun Cartel	Posted - 2007.11.29 17:31:00 - [5] It's not the end of the world. You just have to learn when to pull your drones off. I think the popular phrase "Adapt or die" fits well here. --- Always outnumbered. Most likely outgunned. Never outsmarted. ~Wolf
Daemesa D'Aragon	Posted - 2007.11.29 17:32:00 - [6] i'm not a drone user but i noticed, that even while drones not insta regen shield, they do or at least it seems keep regen even while scooped. maybe is another way to force drone users to carry the right size drones with spare ones (more like ammo on guns) than a permarun weapon.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.29 17:32:00 - [7] Originally by: Jupiter Sun equip a remote repper in your highs to fix your drones and stop depending upon a soon to be dead lame mechanic. You mean sort of like the mechanic that insta regens your shield when docking in a station?
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.11.29 17:33:00 - [8] Originally by: Zemeckis R on the test server drone ships are failing it is extremely simple to destroy drones, there are soooo many ways and all of them are extremely efficients this for drone boats is a shame, 'couse loosing their offenses capabilities, they just have to wait for the explosion RIP droneships RIP grammar. Since all of your drone ships are useless now, I'm happy to take them off of your hands for 10% below current market prices. A virtual steal considering how useless they're about to be! ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare
Khald	Posted - 2007.11.29 17:37:00 - [9] Edited by: Khald on 29/11/2007 17:37:23 Doesnt the new system with bandwidth allow the drone boats to have multipul waves of drones. So send one wave out it gets shields chewed up pullem back send out another wave etc.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.11.29 17:41:00 - [10] Originally by: Khald Edited by: Khald on 29/11/2007 17:37:23 Doesnt the new system with bandwidth allow the drone boats to have multipul waves of drones. So send one wave out it gets shields chewed up pullem back send out another wave etc. Yes, but that would be positive, along with new drone behaviors and more reliable drone control, plus several other drone-related fixes. The OP is not about to be positive though. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare

Barbens	Posted - 2007.11.29 17:41:00 - [11] Originally by: Khald Edited by: Khald on 29/11/2007 17:37:23 Doesnt the new system with bandwidth allow the drone boats to have multipul waves of drones. So send one wave out it gets shields chewed up pullem back send out another wave etc. Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner! I think this is probably CCP's idea on this subject. BaRbEnS
Alz Shado Ever Flow DeStInY.	Posted - 2007.11.29 17:48:00 - [12] Wait, but I bought my drones from a late night infomercial! They said I could just Set it, and Forget it! Now I'll have to do other stuff too?!
Firkragg Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.29 17:59:00 - [13] Drone shields regen in your drone bay. Drone ships can also now carry multiple waves. This means you can just cycle the waves round.
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:01:00 - [14] Originally by: Khald Edited by: Khald on 29/11/2007 17:37:23 Doesnt the new system with bandwidth allow the drone boats to have multipul waves of drones. So send one wave out it gets shields chewed up pullem back send out another wave etc. That's how it was explained by CCP. But it turns out I think a whopping TWO ships actually got drone bay increases. So it was basically just a drone-ship nerf. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:09:00 - [15] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Khald Edited by: Khald on 29/11/2007 17:37:23 Doesnt the new system with bandwidth allow the drone boats to have multipul waves of drones. So send one wave out it gets shields chewed up pullem back send out another wave etc. That's how it was explained by CCP. But it turns out I think a whopping TWO ships actually got drone bay increases. So it was basically just a drone-ship nerf. Are the bandwidth restrictions on most drone ships lower than the size restrictions originally were? The ships I've looked at have been able to field the same number/combinations of drones as always, but I don't fly drone boats... - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:09:00 - [16] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Jupiter Sun equip a remote repper in your highs to fix your drones and stop depending upon a soon to be dead lame mechanic. You mean sort of like the mechanic that insta regens your shield when docking in a station? Have you tried this in a station without a repair facility? I ask because I seem to remember docking in a station after having to run from a mission, found that station had no repair facility, undocked and my shield and power had not been regenerated... On another note, the OP's issue is why I trained all the remote repair skills... Personally, I think we need a Med Slot Module - Drone Repair System, that will, over time, repair any drone damage while the drone is in the ship's drone bay (like a Hull Repair Module) --------*****-------- It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Eve University	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:10:00 - [17] Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 29/11/2007 18:11:39 (dbl post, I need to fix my connection)
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Eve University	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:11:00 - [18] 1) The idea of giving spare drones to gunboats as promised in the devblog has proven to be a lie. 2) Dominix and Ishtar are the only two ships capable of carrying truly multiple spare waves of their best fit - that is, 3+ waves of their bandwidth, without having been nerfed to do it. The Arbitrator carries 3 waves of mediums but had its bandwidth reduced to do it, Eos carries 3 waves of 2/2/1 with Command Ships V, and that's about it. 3) All the other ships get two or less waves of their max capability, which essentially means you either gimp yourself or die out as quick as a Myrmi attacked by a competent pilot now (Myrmi gets two, Vexor gets 1 wave and a handful of spares, Ishkur gets 2) Drone Bandwidth was all about nerfing drone ships, that's it. Two waves of drones is not many at all given how easy it is to kill them now. And btw, since you all love bringing up how drones are non-ewarabale: what happens when the drone ship gets ewar'd and can't lock his drones anymore to rep them, assuming he's in rep range to begin with and not having problems running his own tank? OH SNAP. Seriously, though, why bother fitting a remote rep? You quickly reach the point where you're better off flying the corresponding blasterboat and not worrying about tanking your drones - heck, you could use ECM drones or rep drones and still do a significant amount of damage, which is more than most of the drone boats can say.
poooooooobritaltt	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:13:00 - [19] instant shield regeneration doesnt seem like a bug to you?
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Eve University	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:18:00 - [20] TBH, not really, considering that the most popular ones (thermic) have much less shield than armor and if you get out of blaster range they die coming back home or at least put in structure. That and it kind of makes sense that some sort of basic maintenance would occur when drones are returned to the drone bay that is INTRINSIC to the bay itself, otherwise we might as well toss drones in the cargo hold and launch them from there.

In4r4	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:18:00 - [21] I really would like to see the reaction if CCP say allowed us to attack the weapons systems of all ships. Gallente is the only race that can have its offence actually blown up. As for the promised changes (allowing us to carry multiple waves of drones) they havent happened, all but 2 dedicated drone boats lose out with the changes
Aranbaal	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:21:00 - [22] Insta regen in sttions doesnt happen in all stations its pretty hit and miss so you cant rely on it to keep you in a fight. Why should drones have this ability? Am glad they removing it. Means that drone boat pilots now have to actually do something. Drone baots have been very overpowered for allong time now so its been long overdue they were brought into line with the rest of the ships. You've had a good run out of them its time to find out how the rest of us survive. Of course the pilots are gonne ***** and moan, hell if i was a myrm pilot who coud do over 700dps i wouldnt be happy that they nerfing it. But not being one i can see that 700dps from a battlecruiser is way too overpowered and needs to be nerf'd. As stated above its time to adapt or die.
Kortalis Hellion Gallente The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:23:00 - [23] Originally by: Firkragg Drone shields regen in your drone bay. Drone ships can also now carry multiple waves. This means you can just cycle the waves round. I was going to say the same thing.
Rhaegor Stormborn Pestilent Industries Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:25:00 - [24] It is called balance. [PIA] Recruitment Thread
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:28:00 - [25] How does bandwidth nerf droneships? By not buffing them quite as much as promised? I don't get it. - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:33:00 - [26] Er...every drone ship except for the Myrmidon and Eos have been either unchanged or benefit from the nerf. In addition dedicated drone ships boost the HP of their drones, meaning that since drone shields don't instantly regenerate they'll harder to kill than the drones of non-dedicated drone ships. To claim that this is a drone ship nerf, while ignoring all the other drone improvements such as meta-level drones, improved behavior and additional control options, is lame. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare
Aenis Veros Caldari Alphaflight	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:33:00 - [27] Gallente are finally brought back to balance, and the gallente FOTM-people are whining. I say LOL.
Tammarr Trident RMBK	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:36:00 - [28] I'am constantly seen crying that I wont be able to kill stupid myrm pilots anymore due to them not being able to field 5xheavys and nothing else nomore =( Seriously, some drone ships like myrm, the only nerf they needed was the 'no insta shield regen on scoop' and the chooice to field 5xheavies and no spares vs 10xmeds 5xlights would have been present instead of this bullying. I'd almost say same thing goes for eos... since it bloody rocks able to field 5xheavy logistic bots to support its gang but at the same time, its heavy dps dealing had to go compared to the mighty dps of a claymore, vulture or damnation, its inline now on that part, the ability to help its friends, lost =(. Nerfing carriers and most everything nice for a t2 freighter that should be tier 2 isnt balancing ccp :(
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Eve University	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:37:00 - [29] Originally by: Tarminic Er...every drone ship except for the Myrmidon and Eos have been either unchanged or benefit from the nerf. In addition dedicated drone ships boost the HP of their drones, meaning that since drone shields don't instantly regenerate they'll harder to kill than the drones of non-dedicated drone ships. To claim that this is a drone ship nerf, while ignoring all the other drone improvements such as meta-level drones, improved behavior and additional control options, is lame. I think some Amarr pilots would love to tell you otherwise. Also, I think everyone knows that drone ships get a drone HP boost - isn't that a key part of play now, Tarminic? The drone AI fixes should be nice, I am eagerly awaiting those. Meta-level drones sound pretty useless right now, given their projected stats being less than t2. Paying more for less? It's not like these things are Phased Muon damps. Given the increased difficulty in keeping them alive, I'll stick to t2 kthx. This IS a drone ship nerf. It may indeed bring balance - several months of analysis in TQ will need to be the judge of that - but it is still a nerf, plain and simple. Forgive me for not being appreciative of CCP's magnanimity to give me a whole extra 25 m^3 of bay while reducing my damage and sustainability.
hydraSlav Synergy Evolved Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:41:00 - [30] Originally by: Grimpak ...and this is bad why.....? Cause name another weapon system that can be permanently lost until docking. Gallente drone boats always had this issue of leaving their whole weapon system behind, but it was somewhat balanced by the few perks (like shield regen, and nice "theoretical dps"). Now they nerfed the DPS and took away the perk == Above comments are my personal views Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat

Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:46:00 - [31] Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin I think some Amarr pilots would love to tell you otherwise. Also, I think everyone knows that drone ships get a drone HP boost - isn't that a key part of play now, Tarminic? Of course, but I don't think that people have considered the fact that it will make drone ships more resilient to their drones taking damage since drone shields no longer insta-regen. Quote: The drone AI fixes should be nice, I am eagerly awaiting those. Meta-level drones sound pretty useless right now, given their projected stats being less than t2. Paying more for less? It's not like these things are Phased Muon damps. Given the increased difficulty in keeping them alive, I'll stick to t2 kthx. I'm not on the test server at the moment so I can't check this, but from what I've seen the meta-level drones aren't designed to pour out additional DPS but to be more specialized. Unfortunately I can't check to see if that's the case at the moment. Quote: This IS a drone ship nerf. It may indeed bring balance - several months of analysis in TQ will need to be the judge of that - but it is still a nerf, plain and simple. Forgive me for not being appreciative of CCP's magnanimity to give me a whole extra 25 m^3 of bay while reducing my damage and sustainability. It may be technically, but my personal feelings that it's generally good for drone users, even if it's bad for people who only fly Myrmidons or Eos'. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare
In4r4	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:46:00 - [32] Originally by: Tarminic Er...every drone ship except for the Myrmidon and Eos have been either unchanged or benefit from the nerf. In addition dedicated drone ships boost the HP of their drones, meaning that since drone shields don't instantly regenerate they'll harder to kill than the drones of non-dedicated drone ships. To claim that this is a drone ship nerf, while ignoring all the other drone improvements such as meta-level drones, improved behavior and additional control options, is lame. I think you miss the point, oveur claimed the intention was to make drone ships able to carry numerous waves of drones, unless im mistakes 'unchanged' doesnt = more waves of drones the only unchanged ships i can think of are the ishtar and domi, i cant think of a ship that benefits. they even nerfed the ishkur ffs
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:46:00 - [33] Originally by: hydraSlav Originally by: Grimpak ...and this is bad why.....? Cause name another weapon system that can be permanently lost until docking. Gallente drone boats always had this issue of leaving their whole weapon system behind, but it was somewhat balanced by the few perks (like shield regen, and nice "theoretical dps"). Now they nerfed the DPS and took away the perk I always thought it was balanced by having a weapons system with a huge 'optimal range', few if any tracking issues, no cap usage, no ammo, no need for slots on the ship, and no need for a continuous weapons lock. - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:49:00 - [34] Originally by: hydraSlav Originally by: Grimpak ...and this is bad why.....? Cause name another weapon system that can be permanently lost until docking. Gallente drone boats always had this issue of leaving their whole weapon system behind, but it was somewhat balanced by the few perks (like shield regen, and nice "theoretical dps"). Now they nerfed the DPS and took away the perk Any gun or missile once it runs out of Ammo, if you happen to use up what is in the cargohold. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Leto Twin Amarr Caritas.	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:50:00 - [35] Leto's Darwinian Method of Adaptation to changes: Drones don't insta-regen. shield when returned to bay: Oh noes! Now they are killable! Train drone durability, so they can make it back to your bay, so you can cycle out a new wave. Learn to micromanage, I understand I am Caldari (missiles) and I tell you to micromanage (yes, yes, I do use missiles), but it will be almost as effective as the insta-regen (probably 75%). As a Caldari Pilot with next to now hybrid skills, or gunnery period, I have still been able to get into a myrmidon and wtfpwn upto a BS with just drones (4M in drones and Ogre IIs...). They have brought them back into line with the other new Tier 2 BCs. They have more waves to make up for them being killable, too. They changed the bandwidth to deal with this. Previously a myrm could do 5 heavy IIs, now it can do 2/2/1 and still have 50m3 left (it's early forgive any math errors). So, oops, you lose two heavies? Out come two more, or 5 mediums (hammerheads are nothing to shake a stick at. Fit a shield transfer. Might use a high slot, but if you are so intent on your drones... Oh snap! Gallente are not going to be the foremost on the battlefield anymore? Oh, damn, that means other races are being balanced?! BLASPHEMY! P.S. I will buy Ishtar, Ishkur, Eos, Myrm and Domis for cheap. Since, you know, they are useless and stuff after December 5th... snip Inappropriate signature. Please do not reuse it. Email us for more information -Eldo Davip([email protected])
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:51:00 - [36] Originally by: In4r4 the only unchanged ships i can think of are the ishtar and domi, i cant think of a ship that benefits. Vexor, Arbitrator, Curse, Pilgrim? ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare
Khald Gallente Swordbruden Mining and Security Service Inc. Te-Ka	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:54:00 - [37] Side note on the usage I would like to see them implement scripts on drones so that usage could be tailored in a similar fashion. Such as defensive 25% bonus to shield/armor - 25% to DPS offensive being the opposite 25% bonus to DPS - 25% to shield/armor
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:56:00 - [38] Originally by: Khald Side note on the usage I would like to see them implement scripts on drones so that usage could be tailored in a similar fashion. Such as defensive 25% bonus to shield/armor - 25% to DPS offensive being the opposite 25% bonus to DPS - 25% to shield/armor That would be pretty neat actually... ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:02:00 - [39] Originally by: hydraSlav Originally by: Grimpak ...and this is bad why.....? Cause name another weapon system that can be permanently lost until docking. Any weapon that runs out of ammunition.
Serious Rikk The Three Hundred R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:03:00 - [40] Originally by: Aranbaal Insta regen in sttions doesnt happen in all stations its pretty hit and miss so you cant rely on it to keep you in a fight. I disagree with this. It is hit & miss as to whether the client displays your shield and cap correctly, but they are always recharged. I know that if I undock and my shield and cap are still drained the first module that uses cap will correct the display, and the first change to my shield (either booster, or getting hit) will correct how that displays. I can rely on that And in relation to drones, I would expect that the powergrid of a ship, even a frigate should be enough to recharge the shields at an accellerated rate. maybe not insta but it should be significantly increased while in a ship. -- Noble Scumbag

Coniglietta Magica THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:06:00 - [41] Originally by: Grimpak ...and this is bad why.....? Its your fault Grimpak.. All your fault. The blame has been assigned. Sign The Petition!
Kyra Felann Gallente Red Eye .Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:07:00 - [42] Originally by: Daemesa D'Aragon i'm not a drone user but i noticed, that even while drones not insta regen shield, they do or at least it seems keep regen even while scooped. maybe is another way to force drone users to carry the right size drones with spare ones (more like ammo on guns) than a permarun weapon. Especially now that you can because of larger drone bays.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:08:00 - [43] Originally by: Serious Rikk And in relation to drones, I would expect that the powergrid of a ship, even a frigate should be enough to recharge the shields at an accellerated rate. maybe not insta but it should be significantly increased while in a ship. Try plugging a battery into a much higher capacity recharger than it is designed for and see what happens. - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Armoured C Gallente Globaltech Industries Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:09:00 - [44] ooh well i will just have to adapt...dont you guys have anything better to do ...ooh yeah play eve
Augeas	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:09:00 - [45] Remember, if someone's shooting your drones, he's not shooting you. If a pilot knows that a droneboat can readily replace popped drones, there's a good/strong (?) chance that he'll completely ignore them and concentrate on breaking your tank.
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:14:00 - [46] It hurts the non drone boats more than drone boats, some ships have to rely on their drones as defense against smaller ships and they have tiny drone bays so they cant carry replacements at all. Originally by: Tortun Nahme CCP also condones thinking, I suggest you try it from tiem to time
Gunner Dark	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:19:00 - [47] Originally by: Kyra Felann Originally by: Daemesa D'Aragon i'm not a drone user but i noticed, that even while drones not insta regen shield, they do or at least it seems keep regen even while scooped. maybe is another way to force drone users to carry the right size drones with spare ones (more like ammo on guns) than a permarun weapon. Especially now that you can because of larger drone bays. what larger deone bays eh ?
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:22:00 - [48] Originally by: Gunner Dark Originally by: Kyra Felann Originally by: Daemesa D'Aragon i'm not a drone user but i noticed, that even while drones not insta regen shield, they do or at least it seems keep regen even while scooped. maybe is another way to force drone users to carry the right size drones with spare ones (more like ammo on guns) than a permarun weapon. Especially now that you can because of larger drone bays. what larger deone bays eh ? Vexor, Myrmidon, Arbitrator, Curse, Pilgrim... ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare
William Darkk Gallente Vengeance of the Fallen Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:23:00 - [49] Honestly if they added drone resist skills (like the armor/shield ones) I'd bet a lot of complaints would stop. -------------------------------------------------- <3 my Drones
Leilani Solaris Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:24:00 - [50] Originally by: Jupiter Sun equip a remote repper in your highs to fix your drones and stop depending upon a soon to be dead lame mechanic. Do you need to fit a remote repper to keep your guns online? A remote rep can only repair one drone at a time and it takes time, Drones die pretty quickly as it is. >Out of Control<

kjetil1	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:25:00 - [51] This shuld apply to ships docking in stations to...
J Valkor Blackguard Brigade Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:27:00 - [52] Originally by: Leilani Solaris Originally by: Jupiter Sun equip a remote repper in your highs to fix your drones and stop depending upon a soon to be dead lame mechanic. Do you need to fit a remote repper to keep your guns online? A remote rep can only repair one drone at a time and it takes time, Drones die pretty quickly as it is. No. We need to equip our weapons. Oh snap.
Disteeler Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:30:00 - [53] Edited by: Disteeler on 29/11/2007 19:33:04 Originally by: Aenis Veros Gallente are finally brought back to balance, and the gallente FOTM-people are whining. I say LOL. QFT :l Those nerf are balance to my eyes and my experience. C'mon, noone in their senses can think in Myrmidons pre-trinity being "right". Sig by Black Necris
Tadehiro Kudzu Collective Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:35:00 - [54] Oh, I'm gallente and I support these new changes! polishes his new vagabond and eyes a brand new snake implant set with a Domination MWD
Obeah AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:36:00 - [55] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: hydraSlav Originally by: Grimpak ...and this is bad why.....? Cause name another weapon system that can be permanently lost until docking. Gallente drone boats always had this issue of leaving their whole weapon system behind, but it was somewhat balanced by the few perks (like shield regen, and nice "theoretical dps"). Now they nerfed the DPS and took away the perk Any gun or missile once it runs out of Ammo, if you happen to use up what is in the cargohold. When drone come down in price to ammo/missiles then it would be appropriate to compare. Currently the drones cost as much as the gun not the ammo. By doubling the rate of fire, without including a skill to improve it; CCP has halved the DPS of drones. Pure drone boats should take twice as long to kill something. Is that really true or am i missing something?
Kirex Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:38:00 - [56] "As a general rule, the Gallente drone ships are biased towards firepower at the expense of spare drones." "The Amarr drone ships are biased towards spare drones" This is more of a Gallente nerf than an Amarr nerf. We should be able to shoot off weapons, just to keep this fair. :\| Sigh....
Arvald Caldari House of Tempers	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:43:00 - [57] you know we Caldari have an old saying for situations like this, ahem SUX FO U --------------------------- Im in your forums derailing your threads Moon Surveying Service
Saashia Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:44:00 - [58] AWESOME! I was hoping they would get around to that. Way to go!
Armoured C Gallente Globaltech Industries Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:46:00 - [59] Originally by: Leilani Solaris Originally by: Jupiter Sun equip a remote repper in your highs to fix your drones and stop depending upon a soon to be dead lame mechanic. Do you need to fit a remote repper to keep your guns online? A remote rep can only repair one drone at a time and it takes time, Drones die pretty quickly as it is. if you over heat yoru modules you need nanite grese to repair your damaged modules in space so yes you have :)
Darken Two Gallente Cruororis Consors Conlegium Ivy League	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:01:00 - [60] Originally by: Armoured C Originally by: Leilani Solaris Originally by: Jupiter Sun equip a remote repper in your highs to fix your drones and stop depending upon a soon to be dead lame mechanic. Do you need to fit a remote repper to keep your guns online? A remote rep can only repair one drone at a time and it takes time, Drones die pretty quickly as it is. if you over heat yoru modules you need nanite grese to repair your damaged modules in space so yes you have :) Yea but drones arent being overheated are they ? Don't make unrealated arguments. Plus remote reps have a short range and high cycle time. Not to mention it takes ages to lock drones and the fact that locking all my drones limits my ability to lock actual targets. The main problem tho is the ridiculous prices for the tech 2 drones. It's all fine and dandy if they were a couple 100k per drone but when its a few million per drone, the financial hit for losing a few drones can add up pretty damn fast. I especailly like how the raven pilots are telling everyone to adapt....LOL Originally by: Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.

Karlemgne The Black Fleet The Cosa Nostra	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:01:00 - [61] Originally by: Disteeler Edited by: Disteeler on 29/11/2007 19:33:04 Originally by: Aenis Veros Gallente are finally brought back to balance, and the gallente FOTM-people are whining. I say LOL. QFT :l Those nerf are balance to my eyes and my experience. C'mon, noone in their senses can think in Myrmidons pre-trinity being "right". Honestly? Its more right than the Drake is. -Karl
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:04:00 - [62] Originally by: Darken Two The main problem tho is the ridiculous prices for the tech 2 drones. It's all fine and dandy if they were a couple 100k per drone but when its a few million per drone, the financial hit for losing a few drones can add up pretty damn fast. No one is forcing you to use T2 drones. If you're afraid of losing them just use T1 versions, they're 20% less effective and 90% less expensive. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:13:00 - [63] As a Myrm pilot myself i will just have to learn to adapt to the changes, i have come to recognize them as a neccesary evil, while its fun being able to field a full set of 5 heavys, i dont have any room to carry spares, now my myrm has 10 med and 5 lights or 5 med and 10 lights, cant remember which at the moment, but at least now ill be able to carry spare drones just in case Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway????
Triksterism Gallente Image Not Found	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:18:00 - [64] The OP is an idiot. This is a good thing! I fly Gallente and Caldari, I love my drones but honestly, repairing your drones in an instant is a bit of BS, perhaps some RoT (repair over time) thing would be nice. I believe this 'nerf' has happened before, you could call drones back and they'd be 100% repaired on all levels (not just shield). Seriously, think about how cheap this is and be glad for the change. ----------------------------------- *CCP Please update my portrait on the website/forums :D*
mechtech Silver Snake Enterprise	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:24:00 - [65] You now have multiple waves of drones, because you can't unload your whole drone bay because of drone banwidth. So even if drones are destroyed, the dps used to kill the drones won't hurt the opponent until the extra drone buffer is depleted. You gotta keep that in mind.
Darken Two Gallente Cruororis Consors Conlegium Ivy League	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:26:00 - [66] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Darken Two The main problem tho is the ridiculous prices for the tech 2 drones. It's all fine and dandy if they were a couple 100k per drone but when its a few million per drone, the financial hit for losing a few drones can add up pretty damn fast. No one is forcing you to use T2 drones. If you're afraid of losing them just use T1 versions, they're 20% less effective and 90% less expensive. Don't be stupid. The advantages of using tech 2 drones are not negligible. You can talk when you tech 2 ammo starts costing a couple million per piece. I didn't train millions of SP on drones so that I could use tech 1 drones. And before you start whinging about FOTm and crap like that, I had drones trained long before they became fashionable. The new changes area hit but as far as I'm concerned, they are not such a big hit. The only areas of concern as far as I'm concerned are that there are too many ways to counter drones in PvP and that they are too expensive. Other than these two things, I think the new changes are quite balanced and bring drone boats in line with other ships. Originally by: Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:29:00 - [67] Originally by: Zemeckis R i don't want to talk about the brutal, disgraceful and senseless nerf to the gallente ships (basically all of them) they are so many i writed a long post explaining everything in the details, but i've decided to give just 2 words, 'couse i'm sure you already know everything well drones are no longer able to insta-regen shield when scooped to drone bay on the test server drone ships are failing it is extremely simple to destroy drones, there are soooo many ways and all of them are extremely efficients this for drone boats is a shame, 'couse loosing their offenses capabilities, they just have to wait for the explosion RIP droneships Do you live under a stone? Originally by: Death Kill Go travel or live in the rainforest if neccesary, just dont turn to religion as its a cul de sac.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:31:00 - [68] Originally by: Darken Two Don't be stupid. The advantages of using tech 2 drones are not negligible. You can talk when you tech 2 ammo starts costing a couple million per piece. As they say here, don't fly what you can't afford to lose. The same goes for modules and drones. Obviously using T2 drones is an advantage, but you have to weigh the cost of that advantage vs. the payoff, and I generally don't use T2 drones for that very reason. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare
Darken Two Gallente Cruororis Consors Conlegium Ivy League	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:38:00 - [69] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Darken Two Don't be stupid. The advantages of using tech 2 drones are not negligible. You can talk when you tech 2 ammo starts costing a couple million per piece. As they say here, don't fly what you can't afford to lose. The same goes for modules and drones. Obviously using T2 drones is an advantage, but you have to weigh the cost of that advantage vs. the payoff, and I generally don't use T2 drones for that very reason. It's not a question of affording. I can fly a megathron kit it out in tech 2 gear and afford to lose it multiple time. But I only lose the guns when I lose the ship. If I run from a fight my guns are still there. And noone can shoot my guns off. In a domi. I could win the fight and lose some drones. I could lose the fight and lose ships and drones or I could run away and lose drones. All scenarios involve the possibility of me losing my drones. Now considering each of those damn drones cost as much as a tech 2 turret and there is no particular damage advantage over the tech 2 turret, the cost does not justify the performance of the drones. However I think you're just being a troll since noone can be this stupid. Originally by: Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:45:00 - [70] Originally by: Darken Two Now considering each of those damn drones cost as much as a tech 2 turret and there is no particular damage advantage over the tech 2 turret, the cost does not justify the performance of the drones. Well one could argue that drones have a significant number of advantages vs. turrets, but that's a different discussion. If you think that T2 drones are too expensive then that's a different issue that I happen to agree with. But as a result I just don't use them. Quote: However I think you're just being a troll since noone can be this stupid. Well I'm not trolling, so I suppose I need to have a stern conversation with my professors. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare

Obeah AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:47:00 - [71] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Darken Two Don't be stupid. The advantages of using tech 2 drones are not negligible. You can talk when you tech 2 ammo starts costing a couple million per piece. As they say here, don't fly what you can't afford to lose. The same goes for modules and drones. Obviously using T2 drones is an advantage, but you have to weigh the cost of that advantage vs. the payoff, and I generally don't use T2 drones for that very reason. It has nothing to do with affordability. T2 Drones cost the same as the guns. By making drone users have multiple waves, while also making drones easier to destroy; it seems to me that CCP is discouraging users from using drones.
Billy Sastard Amarr Life. Universe. Everything. Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:57:00 - [72] Originally by: Zemeckis R ...i writed a long post... That is as far as I got, what was the OP about anyway? -=^=-
Darken Two Gallente Cruororis Consors Conlegium Ivy League	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:57:00 - [73] Edited by: Darken Two on 29/11/2007 20:58:00 ahhh forums went crazy Originally by: Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
RaAshan	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:59:00 - [74] If you want insta shield rep, than you better expect it to come off of either: A) your ship's shield or B) your ship's cap Personally, i like the idea of having more space for drones but fewer drones in bay. It adds more depth to the tactical combat. Also, this helps to make a drone ship more versatile. You can now carry different types of drones instead of just one strong set. Side note: I fly drone ships
Darken Two Gallente Cruororis Consors Conlegium Ivy League	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:06:00 - [75] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Darken Two Now considering each of those damn drones cost as much as a tech 2 turret and there is no particular damage advantage over the tech 2 turret, the cost does not justify the performance of the drones. Well one could argue that drones have a significant number of advantages vs. turrets, but that's a different discussion. If you think that T2 drones are too expensive then that's a different issue that I happen to agree with. But as a result I just don't use them. Quote: However I think you're just being a troll since noone can be this stupid. Well I'm not trolling, so I suppose I need to have a stern conversation with my professors. The risk:reward ratio for using tech 2 drones are completely out of whack. Why should people who have invested significant amount of SP not use them. I find it ridiculous that the best method of balancing that CCP could think of for the expensive tech 2 drones was by making them expendable. It's like me saying a torp raven is OP and theerfore the best way to fix it is to give the Raven the HP of a frig. Completely illogical. If the main reason for this change was to stop people from using drones due to the strain on the servers, they should just say so, remove the damn drones and come up with something else to compensate. Originally by: Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:22:00 - [76] Originally by: Firkragg Drone shields regen in your drone bay. Drone ships can also now carry multiple waves. This means you can just cycle the waves round. Before speaking of multiple drone waves, look the ship stats. Amarr drone ships now can use multiple drone waves. The Myrmidion can load 1 extra and the Dominix has the usual large bay. The rest of the ships have the same drone bay than before. So not much waves to cycle. Add to that the little thing about the nerfed rate of fire; even if in theory the damage boost should keep the damage the same than before in reality the drone lose damage to overkill against already dead targets and to the time they will loose before changing targets and returning to the drone bay (twice than before in bot instances). The end result is easyer to kill drones and less DPS.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:25:00 - [77] Originally by: Hamfast Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Jupiter Sun equip a remote repper in your highs to fix your drones and stop depending upon a soon to be dead lame mechanic. You mean sort of like the mechanic that insta regens your shield when docking in a station? Have you tried this in a station without a repair facility? I ask because I seem to remember docking in a station after having to run from a mission, found that station had no repair facility, undocked and my shield and power had not been regenerated... On another note, the OP's issue is why I trained all the remote repair skills... Personally, I think we need a Med Slot Module - Drone Repair System, that will, over time, repair any drone damage while the drone is in the ship's drone bay (like a Hull Repair Module) It is only a visula bug. Hit any module using energy and your capacitor will go to full, hit a shield booster or take damage and your shield will go to full (in bot examples less the used cap/damage).
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:35:00 - [78] I would like to give this thread the 'Most Posters In One Thread Talking About Related, Similar But Essentially Separate Topics In One Conversation As If They Are The Same Thing' 2007 award. - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:56:00 - [79] Yes CCPs promise of "gimped damage but more diversity!" is a load of crap. The drone bays arent getting bigger and the changes encourage people to load up on as many damage drones as possible as replacements. I'm glad i've at least trained t2 med guns now... I dont see t2 heavys as a "waste" at all but their usefullness and drone boats in general got a huge kick in the nuts. Drone boats are already underpowered in fittings, this is to balance they sweet drone DPS, so why more nerfs? Is it about balance or lag reduction? (btw, your drone ai is still as broken as ever)
Steppa Gallente Incognito Inc	Posted - 2007.11.30 06:15:00 - [80] Originally by: Jupiter Sun equip a remote repper in your highs to fix your drones and stop depending upon a soon to be dead lame mechanic. That's pretty funny considering that no other weapon systems need to be "repaired" by giving up a high-power slot. Not to mention that there are a lot of people out there, myself included, that have double the skill points in drones than they do in, say, missiles or gunnery, because we created, trained, and developed drone-using pilots. Because they are part of the game. Because CCP said so.

Hitomi Tanaka	Posted - 2007.11.30 06:33:00 - [81] Originally by: J Valkor Originally by: Leilani Solaris Originally by: Jupiter Sun equip a remote repper in your highs to fix your drones and stop depending upon a soon to be dead lame mechanic. Do you need to fit a remote repper to keep your guns online? A remote rep can only repair one drone at a time and it takes time, Drones die pretty quickly as it is. No. We need to equip our weapons. Oh snap. This.
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.11.30 06:36:00 - [82] Not sure, just speculating here, but maybe CCP wants less people to use drones to reduce lag? Afterall, the reason we can field less drones since last drone nerf from a year or two ago was to reduce lag, and nothing else...
Darken Two Gallente Cruororis Consors Conlegium Ivy League	Posted - 2007.11.30 06:54:00 - [83] Originally by: Soulita Not sure, just speculating here, but maybe CCP wants less people to use drones to reduce lag? Afterall, the reason we can field less drones since last drone nerf from a year or two ago was to reduce lag, and nothing else... If that is the reason, perhaps they should just come out and say it. It's not like all of us love the lag or anything. Maybe they should scrap teh drones and bring some replacemnet mecahnic and dump teh current drone user skills into teh replacemnet whatever it may be Originally by: Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
Cagot Gallente Arcanus	Posted - 2007.11.30 07:03:00 - [84] Originally by: Tarminic Er...every drone ship except for the Myrmidon and Eos have been either unchanged or benefit from the nerf. Not so. The Ishkur has also been damaged by the bandwidth nerf. All dedicated drone ships have been nerfed by the shield scoop fix -- granted, the mechanism seems bogus and deserves to be fixed, but because there is no compensation for it, it's in fact a nerf. Quote: In addition dedicated drone ships boost the HP of their drones, meaning that since drone shields don't instantly regenerate they'll harder to kill than the drones of non-dedicated drone ships. I didn't see this change. Link? Quote: To claim that this is a drone ship nerf, while ignoring all the other drone improvements such as meta-level drones, improved behavior and additional control options, is lame. The existing ships and drones are nerfed. Yes, there will be new faction drones that can be invented from potentially rare salvage drops. We'll see if they end up cheap enough for people to fly in combat situations. Massive nerf. Yes, it's lame.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2007.11.30 07:10:00 - [85] Everyone seems to be going gaga over the idea of dual damage drones... Thats bogus because you can just mix your drone types anyway. What are the skill requirements? Is this simply another nerf to players who've invested lots of time in drone training? The only one thats remotely interesting is the t2 spider drone, does damage and webs apparently... though 3 web/2 heavy drones seems to do just fine.
Grapez Advanced Security And Asset Protection	Posted - 2007.11.30 07:11:00 - [86] About 4 months ago I made the decision to stop going down the drone path and train for T2 guns instead. I'm glad I made that decision, because I can't imagine spending that time to train for an Eos (my old target ship), only to see the ship get completely junked. I mean really, it can't field a set of heavies and gets 4 (or 5?) turrets? Wouldn't a properly kitted Brutix outdamage that?
Nhi'Khuna e X i l e Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.11.30 07:14:00 - [87] Lord I'm tired of the ***ing. Honestly. Adapt! I'm an almost dedicated drone pilot, used to fly almost exclusively the curse and the pilgrim, still do post nos nerf quite capably thank you very much. Drones: Fine, increase the damage by 2x and half the rate of fire, kill the shield regen, which, if you are completely honest with yourselves, you'll admit is a bit of an exploit. 90% of the folks I encounter in pvp situations almost never target my drones, instead targeting my ship. Anyhow, I guaruntee Gallente will be as effective as they ever were, just learn to adapt. In the meantime, while your whining and ***ing about how your uber wtfpwnmobile has been nerfed cause you can't think outside of the box, I'll enjoy getting you folks on my KM. ;)
Darken Two Gallente Cruororis Consors Conlegium Ivy League	Posted - 2007.11.30 07:21:00 - [88] Edited by: Darken Two on 30/11/2007 07:21:52 Originally by: Nhi'Khuna Lord I'm tired of the ***ing. Honestly. Adapt! I'm an almost dedicated drone pilot, used to fly almost exclusively the curse and the pilgrim, still do post nos nerf quite capably thank you very much. Drones: Fine, increase the damage by 2x and half the rate of fire, kill the shield regen, which, if you are completely honest with yourselves, you'll admit is a bit of an exploit. 90% of the folks I encounter in pvp situations almost never target my drones, instead targeting my ship. Anyhow, I guaruntee Gallente will be as effective as they ever were, just learn to adapt. In the meantime, while your whining and *ing about how your uber wtfpwnmobile has been nerfed cause you can't think outside of the box, I'll enjoy getting you folks on my KM. ;) Yea before you went of on your rant, did you consider how this would affect all aspects of the game including mission runners, small gang PvP, fleet ops and others? While teh shield regen nerf was required, the rewards for flying drone ships is quite limited now. There are classes of gallente ships that exist purely as drone boats and losing 10mil in drones per engagement is not a happy thought for drone boat flyers. As for your double dmg and 2x ROF comment. You do realise that that is actually a DPS nerf and not any kind of boost at all. It means the DPS on drone boats will be slightly reduced since we lose some dmg to overkill shots. And since you guarantee that Gallente will be effective, care to point out which drone boats you are specialised on and have experience flying? Ps: I'll learn to adapt the moment you start paying for my tech 2 drones. How's that for a fair trade. Originally by:** Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services The Acquisition	Posted - 2007.11.30 07:22:00 - [89] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Jupiter Sun equip a remote repper in your highs to fix your drones and stop depending upon a soon to be dead lame mechanic. You mean sort of like the mechanic that insta regens your shield when docking in a station? I wish I had a station that followed me around into combat and ignored aggro timers.
MellaRinn Gallente Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.11.30 07:43:00 - [90] Originally by: Jupiter Sun equip a remote repper in your highs to fix your drones and stop depending upon a soon to be dead lame mechanic. I see no reason other than whining that drones are overpowered for changing this mechanic. Why wouldn't a ship's drone maintenance bay instaregen their shields? A dominix's reactor could probably fuel shields for hundreds of drones in a jiffy, as they are such a tiny fraction of the droneship's size and it's comparable to charging your mobile with a nuclear reactor... ✖Veto Corp. Training Officer✖ Click the sig 4 my vids

Darken Two Gallente Cruororis Consors Conlegium Ivy League	Posted - 2007.11.30 07:48:00 - [91] Edited by: Darken Two on 30/11/2007 07:48:02 Well just was on SISI, seems the drone shields do recharge in the bay....but at an extremely slow rate. However, they managed to screw it up completely by making the drone interface in such a manner that you cannot see the drone's health in the bay. So you cannot tell which drones are damaged and which ones are not. Originally by: Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
MellaRinn Gallente Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.11.30 07:54:00 - [92] Originally by: Darken Two Edited by: Darken Two on 30/11/2007 07:48:02 Well just was on SISI, seems the drone shields do recharge in the bay....but at an extremely slow rate. However, they managed to screw it up completely by making the drone interface in such a manner that you cannot see the drone's health in the bay. So you cannot tell which drones are damaged and which ones are not. Yeah, the hp bars are an issue. the shields recharge at their normal recharge rate - doesnt matter if the drone is in bay or flying about... which I find bad, as written above... ✖Veto Corp. Training Officer✖ Click the sig 4 my vids
Tasuric Orka Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 07:55:00 - [93] Originally by: Darken Two Edited by: Darken Two on 30/11/2007 07:48:02 Well just was on SISI, seems the drone shields do recharge in the bay....but at an extremely slow rate. However, they managed to screw it up completely by making the drone interface in such a manner that you cannot see the drone's health in the bay. So you cannot tell which drones are damaged and which ones are not. They should fix that, but i'm glad the drones no longer insta-regen in the hold. I can't see why anyone would consider it fair, or proclaim that this change will make drone ships useless. The people using normal weapons have to take into account all sorts of things, now you drone guys will have to think aboot more than just "drone control range". Yeah, i can see how this is too much for you to handle, poor you.
Darken Two Gallente Cruororis Consors Conlegium Ivy League	Posted - 2007.11.30 08:04:00 - [94] Originally by: Tasuric Orka Originally by: Darken Two Edited by: Darken Two on 30/11/2007 07:48:02 Well just was on SISI, seems the drone shields do recharge in the bay....but at an extremely slow rate. However, they managed to screw it up completely by making the drone interface in such a manner that you cannot see the drone's health in the bay. So you cannot tell which drones are damaged and which ones are not. They should fix that, but i'm glad the drones no longer insta-regen in the hold. I can't see why anyone would consider it fair, or proclaim that this change will make drone ships useless. The people using normal weapons have to take into account all sorts of things, now you drone guys will have to think aboot more than just "drone control range". Yeah, i can see how this is too much for you to handle, poor you. Yes the inst-recharge fix was a good thing. However, the cost of the tech 2 drones remain a problem. As it stands right now, it's not worth it since you lose so much ISK when your drones pop. 5 tech 2 Ogres is a considerable amount of money. It's bad enough that you lose them if you disconnect but now they have added more ways to lose expensive drones. Originally by: Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
LUH 3471	Posted - 2007.11.30 08:15:00 - [95] Edited by: LUH 3471 on 30/11/2007 08:15:05 they should make the sig radius of drones much much smaller i mean look at the size of them compared to a frigate and then compare the sig radius stupid but hey thats ccp logic as we know it
Tasuric Orka Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 08:40:00 - [96] Edited by: Tasuric Orka on 30/11/2007 08:41:20 Edited by: Tasuric Orka on 30/11/2007 08:41:03 Well i guess thats more of a balance issue than anything else, they could adress the issue by making drones recharge faster when in the hold as previously suggested. Originally by: LUH 3471 Edited by: LUH 3471 on 30/11/2007 08:15:05 they should make the sig radius of drones much much smaller i mean look at the size of them compared to a frigate and then compare the sig radius stupid but hey thats ccp logic as we know it Uhm.. no, else we cant expect do lock/hurt them at all anymore.
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.11.30 09:12:00 - [97] It's not the dedicated droneboats that suffer, it's the semi-drone boats with equal bay and bandwidth such as the geddon and mega. -------- EVE Trinity: THE SKY IS FALLING!
Admiral Pelleon Caldari White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2007.11.30 09:13:00 - [98] Exactly, as they should. Else they'd be a dedicated droneboat with the DPS of a real turret ship. ________ "It's a good day to die!"
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.11.30 09:19:00 - [99] Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 30/11/2007 09:18:59 hah 'brutal', 'disgraceful' nerf... you're such a drama queen. I for one welcome our new Caldari overlords... so that I may shoot them in the face (It's gets dull only ever fighting other Gallente ships thanks to FoTM jockeys) ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.11.30 09:26:00 - [100] Originally by: Admiral Pelleon Exactly, as they should. Else they'd be a dedicated droneboat with the DPS of a real turret ship. Not without a bonus they wouldn't, these ships were balanced with their drone DPS in mind. -------- EVE Trinity: THE SKY IS FALLING!

Admiral Pelleon Caldari White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2007.11.30 09:28:00 - [101] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Originally by: Admiral Pelleon Exactly, as they should. Else they'd be a dedicated droneboat with the DPS of a real turret ship. Not without a bonus they wouldn't, these ships were balanced with their drone DPS in mind. Then suck up the slight hit in damage and fit a few waves of mediums and cycle them? ________ "It's a good day to die!"
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.11.30 09:34:00 - [102] Originally by: Admiral Pelleon Then suck up the slight hit in damage and fit a few waves of mediums and cycle them? I don't fly the Mega (since I fell in love with the Rokh) or Geddon, but a "slight hit" is the difference between breaking a tank and dying. Either they were balanced with heavy drone DPS (or medium in the case of certain ships) in mind and require a larger drone bay, or they have been unbalanced since release and need their bandwidth nerfed as the Myrmidons was. -------- EVE Trinity: THE SKY IS FALLING!
Admiral Pelleon Caldari White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2007.11.30 09:36:00 - [103] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Originally by: Admiral Pelleon Then suck up the slight hit in damage and fit a few waves of mediums and cycle them? I don't fly the Mega (since I fell in love with the Rokh) or Geddon, but a "slight hit" is the difference between breaking a tank and dying. Either they were balanced with heavy drone DPS (or medium in the case of certain ships) in mind and require a larger drone bay, or they have been unbalanced since release and need their bandwidth nerfed as the Myrmidons was. Well the best I can offer is to roll with the punches. They're pretty set on the bandwidth and scoop changes. Also another solution is to fit some med ECM drones. It doesn't have to be all bad, perhaps variety could be good. ________ "It's a good day to die!"
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.11.30 09:43:00 - [104] Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 30/11/2007 09:45:13 It's a pretty heavy swing of the bat for these ships though. Going from heavies to mediums is more of a DPS hit than switching from pulses to beams and almost as much as changing from blasters to rails. ECM drones face the same balance issue (not that I should be using ECM drones and balance in the same sentence ). Either the ship should be able to field five heavies for more than a few seconds or it should only be able to carry mediums. -------- EVE Trinity: THE SKY IS FALLING!
Reacz Caldari Empirius Enigmus Navy	Posted - 2007.11.30 09:59:00 - [105] Edited by: Reacz on 30/11/2007 10:00:39 Drone ships? FAILING!? :O Oh noes, buff!!! But seriously, I guess a good work around could be: When scoping in damaged drones you can set it to auto-recharge shield, but there is a cost, either you would loose a certain amount of capicator or shield from your ship, depending on the shield damage to the drone. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected])
Kuronaga GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.30 10:01:00 - [106] it'd make more sense if they just let you control as many drones at once as your bandwidth allowed instead of capping it at 5, then simply rebalance how much bandwidth certain drones take so nobody launches like 30 light drones and lags it all to hell or whatever. whups i just fixed the problem haha, ok everybody ignore what i just said.
Illyrinia Caldari Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.11.30 10:09:00 - [107] ha, all you guys are dorks. lmao, cry cry cry. simple. ecm drones LMAO. i was perma jammed in a domi by a raven with ECM drones on sisi. suck on that one eh... want something to complain ab, ECM.... http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=643000
Darken Two Gallente Cruororis Consors Conlegium Ivy League	Posted - 2007.11.30 10:55:00 - [108] Originally by: Illyrinia ha, all you guys are dorks. lmao, cry cry cry. simple. ecm drones LMAO. i was perma jammed in a domi by a raven with ECM drones on sisi. suck on that one eh... want something to complain ab, ECM.... Yes I'm sure everyone who put millions of SP in combat drones will now be happy to just use ECM drones and nothing else. Ships like teh domi have very low DPS if they are forced to fit guns becuase they have serious fitting problem Stop being stupid. Originally by: Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
Grishnarg	Posted - 2007.11.30 11:08:00 - [109] Edited by: Grishnarg on 30/11/2007 11:10:42 Originally by: Soulita Not sure, just speculating here, but maybe CCP wants less people to use drones to reduce lag? Afterall, the reason we can field less drones since last drone nerf from a year or two ago was to reduce lag, and nothing else... It just occured to me, and this is quite funny; If CCP do this to reduce lag, I think that is gonna fail misserably. Why? People are gonna stuff their ships with cheap throwaway drones. One set destroyed. So what I just send out 5 more, and 5 more.... and so on, and the endresult is more lag. I know I will end up doing this. A mega can fit... what? 125 m3, that is 5 squads of light dirtcheap hobs....
Ione Hunt 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.11.30 11:11:00 - [110] Edited by: Ione Hunt on 30/11/2007 11:11:32 We need to see drone health when drones are scooped! The whole "but you have multiple waves" argument is stupid because of the high price of T2 drones. Either lower their build requirments making them cheaper and more in line with regular ammo, or come up with something else. Current prices and the upcoming drone mechanics won't make it worth using expensive T2 drones, even if the new interface is nice. Lots of bling with the new patch (drone interface, graphics, new ships), but some crucial things haven't been thought through _______________

Neal Cassady Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2007.11.30 11:12:00 - [111] perhaps they just decided gallente are overpowered? about frickin time if you ask me but i am glad i hadnt cross trained gallente heavily.
E Vile Fifth Exiled Legion SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 11:15:00 - [112] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Jupiter Sun equip a remote repper in your highs to fix your drones and stop depending upon a soon to be dead lame mechanic. You mean sort of like the mechanic that insta regens your shield when docking in a station? So drop the insta shield heal at station OR insta heal drone shields at station too. Not sure how you say just because your drone bay wouldnt heal means stations with mass repair facilities can't. I would't be against a timer to heal shields in station, or not at all. Would be nice if station huggers needed to pay to heal shields in a station like armor. I think not insta healing drones will help alot in large combat. No more will groups of people be scoop/drop/scoop/drop. Besides....Gallente smell like daiseys and strawberry lube.
Illyrinia Caldari Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:26:00 - [113] Originally by: Darken Two Originally by: Illyrinia ha, all you guys are dorks. lmao, cry cry cry. simple. ecm drones LMAO. i was perma jammed in a domi by a raven with ECM drones on sisi. suck on that one eh... want something to complain ab, ECM.... Yes I'm sure everyone who put millions of SP in combat drones will now be happy to just use ECM drones and nothing else. Ships like teh domi have very low DPS if they are forced to fit guns becuase they have serious fitting problem Stop being stupid. o_0 why train everything in drones at once? ive got 1.3m in gunnery, 980 something k in drones. now ill be working on t2 heayvs and sentrys, then SIN! drones arent nerfed... your guys 'omg i get to launch 5 heavys and wtf pwn most bcs and some bs because i have 9mil drone sp!!!!!!!!!!' http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=643000
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:55:00 - [114] Originally by: In4r4 I really would like to see the reaction if CCP say allowed us to attack the weapons systems of all ships. Gallente is the only race that can have its offence actually blown up. As for the promised changes (allowing us to carry multiple waves of drones) they havent happened, all but 2 dedicated drone boats lose out with the changes I would like to see the reaction if CCP allowed us to fit weapons that don't take up any slots, use ammo or cap and work even if you're EW'd. OH WAIT. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Inir Ishtori The Guardian Agency Guardian Federation	Posted - 2007.11.30 15:07:00 - [115] Originally by: Illyrinia o_0 why train everything in drones at once? ive got 1.3m in gunnery, 980 something k in drones. now ill be working on t2 heayvs and sentrys, then SIN! drones arent nerfed... your guys 'omg i get to launch 5 heavys and wtf pwn most bcs and some bs because i have 9mil drone sp!!!!!!!!!!' maybe you should get some more experience about the game before talking ****** ** out of your ass... i'll make an alt too and start complaining about people using turret/missile ships wtfpwning my little vexor with their 9+ mill sp in gunnery. it's like blizzard pointed half of their "special" customers to eve these days on topic: i'm glad that i trained for t2 large rails and blasters already. drones are a pain to manage in fights as it is and losing them everytime because you had to escape just sucks. now with the shield recharge nerf, bandwidth nerf und people not losing lock on scooped drones(i really hope it was just a bug and it's fixed now) AND still not being able to see their health status when scooped it is too much of a hassle to fly a drone ship into a battle imo.
Nicoli Voldkif Caelli-Merced INC. Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:32:00 - [116] Originally by: Ione Hunt Edited by: Ione Hunt on 30/11/2007 11:11:32 We need to see drone health when drones are scooped! The whole "but you have multiple waves" argument is stupid because of the high price of T2 drones. Either lower their build requirments making them cheaper and more in line with regular ammo, or come up with something else. Current prices and the upcoming drone mechanics won't make it worth using expensive T2 drones, even if the new interface is nice. Lots of bling with the new patch (drone interface, graphics, new ships), but some crucial things haven't been thought through T2 Drone replacement costs are not nearly as bad as you think they are. Problem with the cost of replacement WAS the Myrmidon. What bit of advice did I tell all my new players going pvping with us? If the Myrm pops 5 Heavies kill the drones and slaughter his DPS, If he pops 5 Mediums just kill the myrm and only get the drones if you have to. At that point they usually say well should I shoot the 5 Heavies a domi toss out? and the answer no because he'll just toss out 5 more and you wasted time shooting the drones. Smartbombs regained a lot of use when the Myrmidon hit mainstream because they were a great way to nerf the DPS of the one shot wonder 5 Ogre II fotm Myrms. As such Drone users overall suffered an increased loss rate of drones as more people fitted smartbombs to counter the fotm ship. Now you'll see drones stop being the main target and as such have a longer life span. Now in regards to the Cost compared to T2 ammo and they should as cheap thats incorrect. T2 ammo is a guaranteed 1 shot it MUST be replaced. Drones May last through multiple fights and not need to be replaced. My T2 hammerheads on my scorp have been there for at least 6 months and they have not died yet. As such they have been MUCH more effective then a single round of T2 ammo. They fact that they are the cost of a gun is appropriate because they have the possibility of staying around as long as a gun and can be swapped between any ship with a large enough drone bay. -----------------------------------------------
Stefx Gallente Moons of Pluto	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:49:00 - [117] Originally by: Zemeckis R drones are no longer able to insta-regen shield when scooped to drone bay I'm a drone user and don't see a problem with that. It's a bad game mechanics that's being fixed to be more realistic. With good aggro management, drones don't get damaged. ----------- MOP recruiting Industrialists/miners/traders/missioners/etc
Aenis Veros Caldari Alphaflight	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:57:00 - [118] Originally by: Karlemgne Originally by: Disteeler Edited by: Disteeler on 29/11/2007 19:33:04 Originally by: Aenis Veros Gallente are finally brought back to balance, and the gallente FOTM-people are whining. I say LOL. QFT :l Those nerf are balance to my eyes and my experience. C'mon, noone in their senses can think in Myrmidons pre-trinity being "right". Honestly? Its more right than the Drake is. -Karl Honestly, you're full of ****. Myrmidon passive shield tank > Drake passive shield tank.
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:19:00 - [119] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Jupiter Sun equip a remote repper in your highs to fix your drones and stop depending upon a soon to be dead lame mechanic. You mean sort of like the mechanic that insta regens your shield when docking in a station? Well said. :) Rifter is not X-Wing CCP. Trinity model kinda sucks.
Khald Gallente Swordbruden Mining and Security Service Inc. Te-Ka	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:25:00 - [120] The problem Ive had with repairing drones has been it takes too long to target them and when I do get them targted they fly out of range to attack something else unless I have them orbit me. There should be no targeting time for the drones as I am already linked to them and supposedly guiding them which is why certain ships give them bonuses as they are better at it. If targeting were instant it would go a long way toward drone boats being able to maintain thier drones.

Dors Venabily	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:37:00 - [121] Drone boats will not be viable as a pvp ship of choice after this. See all our "looking at drone boats stats its not a nerf its balance adapt or die smart asses that most likely never flown a drone ship before" dont realise anything like the theoretical Dps is possible in drone boat but whatever. Fit a remote rep i got a laugh out of this if all of them get smart bombed i want to see this. Really making me laugh not even you have to lock them beforehand and basically kill your free locking slots no matter what skills you have on any cruiser class ship. Or actually do this in middle of combat hhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha I have been around since the time there were 15 max drones on the domi and flown drone ships almost exclusively this is SINGLE BIGGEST nerf since whatever my toons bday is i am not going to even explain my self to bunch of ppl that have no clue if you actually can use brain you realise what just happened. See myrmidon needed a bit of nerf so did some other ships but this is just killing drones. See i actally agree with the bandwith concept but the bays had to be at least doubled or tripled in some instances so you can use true multiple flights of drones as cruiser class meds frigs lights bships heavies only actually viable ship is the good old domi. i am talking t1 ships in general ishtar is an exception since its dedicated t2 specialist on anything else my expectation of pvp combat will be this 1 i send wave of 5 boom smart bomb trivially trying to repair one or (whatever ammount you have fited) boom its gone too 2 i send wave of 5 boom smart bomb 3 looking stupid with crappy weapons or armor/shield reps in highs pew pew pew 4 Boom me epxloding great now i can fly maybe 2 ship in the game and have chance to kill anything thx ccp
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:37:00 - [122] Originally by: LUH 3471 Edited by: LUH 3471 on 30/11/2007 08:15:05 they should make the sig radius of drones much much smaller i mean look at the size of them compared to a frigate and then compare the sig radius stupid but hey thats ccp logic as we know it This. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
hydraSlav Synergy Evolved Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:51:00 - [123] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: hydraSlav Originally by: Grimpak ...and this is bad why.....? Cause name another weapon system that can be permanently lost until docking. Gallente drone boats always had this issue of leaving their whole weapon system behind, but it was somewhat balanced by the few perks (like shield regen, and nice "theoretical dps"). Now they nerfed the DPS and took away the perk I always thought it was balanced by having a weapons system with a huge 'optimal range', few if any tracking issues, no cap usage, no ammo, no need for slots on the ship, and no need for a continuous weapons lock. Makes me wonder if you ever even used drones. And if you haven't, what makes you qualified to argue about it here. - Huge "optimal" what are you smoking? The drones optimal (unless sentry drones) is when orbiting around the ship. They first need to FLY to that ship. Heavy drones (the ones people always cry "OMFG DPS" about), are very slow and take a LOOONG time to get over to the target. That is if they can keep up with the target at all - No tracking issues? I guess you haven't heard about the bug where training drone navigation causes them to orbit faster, thus outrunning their own tracking and missing more often. Heavy drones have a very poor tracking on small ships anyways (just like any other weapon system). And when fast drones chase after a target with a MWD, they often overshoot the target, which results in lost tracking/optimal once again. "No tracking issues"... yeah right.... - No cap usage? There are other weapon systems in-game with no cap usage. So what? - No ammo? There are other weapon system with virtually no ammo usage. Amar's lasers have virtually no ammo requirements (once the crystal is loaded) - No need for slots on the ship? WTF are you smoking? To get a decent control range to come close to the "huge optimal" you mentioned, we need modules, usually 2 of them just to get a mediocre ~100km range. You will also need Drone Navigation computers to avoid waiting 10 minutes for the drones to fly those 100km. And Omni directional tracking links to make them hit smaller things better. And speaking of modules, how about this: we don't have any modules for drones that can increase their damage (sentries excluded) You know what, thank you Crumplecorn. You just illustrated that people calling for drone nerfs have no ******* clue what they are talking about and got no idea how they even work == Above comments are my personal views Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
Missy Saints	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:11:00 - [124] You mean peopl actually pull in their drones when they are taking shield damage?? OMG someone call concord on me ima drone abuser
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:27:00 - [125] Originally by: hydraSlav You know what, thank you Crumplecorn. You just illustrated that people calling for drone nerfs have no ******* clue what they are talking about and got no idea how they even work That might be true if I had called for drone nerfs. Whoops. And you're right, I don't use drones (except as auxiliary weapons). I use blasters (or railguns if I need range). - My guns can reach a few kilometers at most if I want meaningful tracking. So I wouldn't consider 100km mediocre. - I know about the bugs to do with drones screwing up their own tracking. However I also know that I have a choice between hitting nothing beyond a few kilometers (blasters), or only being able to track at a distance (railguns). Drones, OTOH, track just as well at 0km as they do at their maximum range. As for heavies not being able to hit small fast targets, that's true of all BS sized weapons. - Yes, I know there are other weapons systems with no cap usage. That doesn't change the fact that it is an advantage of drones. - Yes, I know there are other weapons systems with no ammo usage. That doesn't change the fact that it is an advantage of drones. - Yes, I can and do put modules on my ship to enhance my weapons too. - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Syrec Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:50:00 - [126] Originally by: hydraSlav I guess you haven't heard about the bug where training drone navigation causes them to orbit faster, thus outrunning their own tracking and missing more often. I recall the devs taking notice to this since no skill is supposed to make you worse off. Wasn't it fixed?
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:09:00 - [127] Originally by: Ezekiel The drone AI fixes should be nice, I am eagerly awaiting those. Meta-level drones sound pretty useless right now, given their projected stats being less than t2. Paying more for less? It's not like these things are Phased Muon damps. Given the increased difficulty in keeping them alive, I'll stick to t2 kthx. [/quote Actually, the patch notes indicate that meta level drones will be superior to "T1 and T2 drones". So, we'll get 'scout' and 'prototype' drones, AND Serpentis and Angel drones too! ----------------- Friends Forever
a51 duke1406 Order Of The Sentinel	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:11:00 - [128] Originally by: Syrec Originally by: hydraSlav I guess you haven't heard about the bug where training drone navigation causes them to orbit faster, thus outrunning their own tracking and missing more often. I recall the devs taking notice to this since no skill is supposed to make you worse off. Wasn't it fixed? That they did, also makes them easier to kill.But we cant have everything. I can only use drones, Its what Im skilled in, I have terrble perception, I dont want to basically set myself back 6 months in game play to train up my gunnery. This patch is painful. If ccp decided to to nerf your main damage dealing weapon, Im not sure that you would be happy about it either. Take it easy on some of us drone users, let us whine , this patch is not doing one good thing for us. My drone ships have taken a hit, at least I can use my recons I suppose
Suitonia Gallente interimo A.F.K	Posted - 2007.11.30 21:17:00 - [129] The "remote rep your drones" thing is hardly realistic. Firstly, remote reppers only work within 10km, this is assuming heavy reppers too, Myrm/Eos is stuck with the shorter range medium ones. This is within Blaster + Web range, which means even attemping this against a competent Megathron, or other short-range turret boat pilot means you are dead. Playing beyond this range is difficult in itself, Heavy drones move slower than torpedo's, (How many torp raven's do we see in fleets.... oh wait). Which has the same disadvantages as missles do in fleet combat. Not to mention the further you are away from your target, the longer drones have to travel (delayed alpha, see missles;) and the longer they are exposed to your opponent for them to destroy. Even when you had the insta-regen, Drone users would still have to shuffle and withdraw drones, which removes the so-called uber-wtf dps, traveling back to the domi and back to your target. We can of course fit the drone MWD speed bonus modules, a vital midslot. Secondly the "We can run out of ammo too" argument is ********. Seriously. A drake can hold a very large ammount of missles, enougth to keep pounding a target for a good few hours. I think this can go for any other ammo using ship. Unless you are fitting a large amount of cap 800s, which is a different argument in itself. This 'problem' can also be overcome by having secure containers, or having a friendly in a Badger or large cargo ship jettisoning new ammo for you. Drones cannot be moved from the cargo bay, which imposes more limits upon us. It's not like we can damage your cargo capacity is it? Omg but "Drones can't be ECM'd/Neuted!1!!!!" No, they can't, but neuting the drone ship in question, or ECM'ing him prevents him from repairing his drones, (see above for all the problems associated with doing this). Drones (espically the smaller sized variants) have a reletive small signiture radius, which combined with the Drone ships small scan resolution, which people seem to conviently forget, would require a sensor booster to lock in any decent timeframe. Those got nerfed, although with scripts you should be able to get just the scan resolution bonus. ah, there goes another midslot. Another Tactic was to fit Sensor damps on drones to prevent your opponent from locking onto them in a reasonable timeframe... oh wait. This 'buff' is hardly what it claims to be, the idea behind bandwidth was to increase variety of drones a drone user could use, but if anything it's going to do the opposite. I used to have, 5x small drone, 5x medium drone, 5x large drone, 5x ECM drone, 5x Large Maintence Drone in my Dominix, but if I have to 'Carry spares u noob llolollol' then I have to lose the variety, of say the armor maintence bots for a replacement ogre set. People seem to forget that we have gimped cap, gimped powergrid, low amount of highslots, and Limited amount of drone space. A smartbombing ship completely countered our dps. Now this is not a whine, I'll adapt, unlike the whiners, just pointing out that your 5x Heavy Neutron II, 5 Ogre II, 1x Large Shield Rep Domi's are not realistic in real-time combat. EFT killed this game. --- I've always wondered about those Vagabond pilots...
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.11.30 21:40:00 - [130] Originally by: Dors Venabily on anything else my expectation of pvp combat will be this 1 i send wave of 5 boom smart bomb trivially trying to repair one or (whatever ammount you have fited) boom its gone too 2 i send wave of 5 boom smart bomb 3 looking stupid with crappy weapons or armor/shield reps in highs pew pew pew 4 Boom me epxloding great now i can fly maybe 2 ship in the game and have chance to kill anything thx ccp It takes 10 activations of a Large Explosive smartbomb to kill Ogre II's on a Megathron (ok so drone Durability V) On a drone boat it would take 15 - that's the best part of 2 minutes, that same smartbomb is taking up more cap/second than a full rack of 7 Ion Blaster II's, loaded with Void L, backed up by 2 MFS II, on a Megathron... ...I hope you see where this is going... ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'

J Valkor Blackguard Brigade Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 21:47:00 - [131] So before the patch your drones would get damaged, you would scoop them ASAP, and then re release them ASAP. However, now that they do not regen instantly, drone boats are always going to be 50km from their drones and there is no way to remote rep them or scoop them in time to save them from death, thus more drone deaths. Hint - Scooping drones make enemy ship lose the lock. If you are close enough to scoop them you are close enough to remote rep them. If they are 50kms out and heavy, they would have been dead pre patch anyway.
Nhi'Khuna e X i l e Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.11.30 22:22:00 - [132] Originally by: Darken Two Edited by: Darken Two on 30/11/2007 07:21:52 Originally by: Nhi'Khuna Lord I'm tired of the ***ing. Honestly. Adapt! I'm an almost dedicated drone pilot, used to fly almost exclusively the curse and the pilgrim, still do post nos nerf quite capably thank you very much. Drones: Fine, increase the damage by 2x and half the rate of fire, kill the shield regen, which, if you are completely honest with yourselves, you'll admit is a bit of an exploit. 90% of the folks I encounter in pvp situations almost never target my drones, instead targeting my ship. Anyhow, I guaruntee Gallente will be as effective as they ever were, just learn to adapt. In the meantime, while your whining and ***ing about how your uber wtfpwnmobile has been nerfed cause you can't think outside of the box, I'll enjoy getting you folks on my KM. ;) Yea before you went of on your rant, did you consider how this would affect all aspects of the game including mission runners, small gang PvP, fleet ops and others? While teh shield regen nerf was required, the rewards for flying drone ships is quite limited now. There are classes of gallente ships that exist purely as drone boats and losing 10mil in drones per engagement is not a happy thought for drone boat flyers. As for your double dmg and 2x ROF comment. You do realise that that is actually a DPS nerf and not any kind of boost at all. It means the DPS on drone boats will be slightly reduced since we lose some dmg to overkill shots. And since you guarantee that Gallente will be effective, care to point out which drone boats you are specialised on and have experience flying? Ps: I'll learn to adapt the moment you start paying for my tech 2 drones. How's that for a fair trade. Pretty much all of them. I fly: Vexors, Arbitrators, Curse, Pilgrims, Myrmidons, Domis, yadda yadda yadda... I don't remember the last time I was in a turret ship. Point is, I've successfully ratted, missioned and pvp'd without relying on the drone's insta sheild rep tactic and you can too. If your target switches to your drones (NPC or not) simply pull them, allow it/them to reaggro your ship, dump your drones back out again. Sure, they'll get targetted again maybe but it's a 1 in 5 chance they are going to get the same damaged drone on the target unless they mark that sucker. I whole heartedly disagree with this notion that drone ships are badly off now. It's the same drivel we heard when the curse/pilgrim got their nerf with neutralizers being the focus: They function quite well now, I'd argue in the Curse's case even better as you can cap drain your target much more effectively now. the damage tweak isn't a nerf. Your gaining the same amount of damage but in bursts rather than a sustained period of time (albeit a very short interval of time between bursts). The reason they did this was to reduce server lag on the amount of times the drones had to call back to the server. It's good, it means your drones are going to be more responsive and actually get into your hold when you tell them to.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.11.30 22:41:00 - [133] Originally by: Darken Two Edited by: Darken Two on 29/11/2007 20:29:27 Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Darken Two The main problem tho is the ridiculous prices for the tech 2 drones. It's all fine and dandy if they were a couple 100k per drone but when its a few million per drone, the financial hit for losing a few drones can add up pretty damn fast. No one is forcing you to use T2 drones. If you're afraid of losing them just use T1 versions, they're 20% less effective and 90% less expensive. Don't be stupid. The advantages of using tech 2 drones are not negligible. And the whole point of having multiple waves is to make us treat drones as expendable. They cannot be considered expendable when they cost a couple million each. You can talk when you tech 2 ammo starts costing a couple million per piece. Tech 2 Large Spike Ammo, 1980 ISK per unit. Reloading my Rokh for a typical ratting run would cost me about 2.5 million ISK that I ain't getting back. A brace of T2 Medium drones, if I work the aggro right, cost just as much and I can launch them after securing aggro on the ship itself and use them indefinitely, as long as I use them intelligently.
Leroy Payne	Posted - 2007.11.30 22:42:00 - [134] so what you are saying is drone boats are useless. i disagree.
Zed Nash Solarflare Heavy Industries Pure.	Posted - 2007.11.30 23:53:00 - [135] Played Eve since Domis could field 15 heavies and 'raxes 5, and drone boats were laughable. I'm not some FoTM droner, I've been a dedicated drone pilot since day one of character creation (few years now). Any "drone pilot" complaining about the shield regen FIX is just complaining. This was a known bug, it's getting fixed, it is a non-issue. Mentioning it as a "nerf" invalidates anything else you have to say, so do yourself a favor, and just don't. The Myrm seriously did need to be brought in-line with it's counter-parts, it was overpowered, no question about it. I refused to fly it because it made me feel dirty. In-class, this ship is still good post-patch. The Eos I feel got hit a little too hard. The drones are unbonused, the gang links are horrible, the tank is poor, the only saving grace was it's obscene DPS, which was out of line with the intended role. After this next patch, the drones will still be unbonused and smaller, we're losing a couple turret hardpoints, a midslot (essential to a SUPPORT ship, never flew mine as gank/tank) with a debatably minimal gain to tankability, AND the gang links got nerfed. Is she bad after the patch? Most definately. Worried about drones getting shot? Here's adaptability: Fly an Ishtar or Domi, shooting these boats drones is a no-win situation, since they can pop out more, and more, and still some more. Any droner worth their salt already knows these are the TRUE drone boats in the game, and they aren't getting touched with the patch. Worried about drone prices? I'm not, fewer drone pilots means lower demand, which means lower prices. With every uneducated FoTM nubin jumping ship because of the upcoming changes, those of us who truly KNOW will only benefit. I'm beginning to wonder how many of the loudest voices in this thread are Myrm/Eos-only FoTM pilots who's loyalty ends with this next patch. Quite a bit, I'd imagine.
CHAOS100 Momentum. The Reckoning.	Posted - 2007.12.01 00:05:00 - [136] Edited by: CHAOS100 on 01/12/2007 00:10:55 I love how most of the people for the NERF are caldari, who can insta-pop or 2 volley any drone with a nighthawk or drake. They are also the same people you see whining and ***ing when CCP 'nerfed' the shield regen time "WHAAAAA WHAAA WTF I CANT TANK 2000 DPS USING NO CAP??" Also if CCP thinks shield regen is a 'bug' and there are no real bugs wrong with drones such as hmm... stopping 3k from your ship and not returning, or hmm going out to attack random things, then feel free to nerf them and finally make it bug free! I would not be that against to the nerf if CCP actually increases drone bay size** like they said they would. Or keep them at their current state but lower their sig radius, as someone else said. --------------
Gealbhan Caldari The SAS The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2007.12.01 00:23:00 - [137] shrugs I build my own drones, so what if they get chewed up, dozens more where they came from. I always thought of drones as another kind of "ammo" anyway, expendable machines. "Concentrate all your fire on one target, when it is destroyed, move on to the next. That is how you secure victory". - Tactica Imperium.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.01 00:25:00 - [138] Originally by: hydraSlav Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: hydraSlav Originally by: Grimpak ...and this is bad why.....? Cause name another weapon system that can be permanently lost until docking. Gallente drone boats always had this issue of leaving their whole weapon system behind, but it was somewhat balanced by the few perks (like shield regen, and nice "theoretical dps"). Now they nerfed the DPS and took away the perk I always thought it was balanced by having a weapons system with a huge 'optimal range', few if any tracking issues, no cap usage, no ammo, no need for slots on the ship, and no need for a continuous weapons lock. Makes me wonder if you ever even used drones. And if you haven't, what makes you qualified to argue about it here. - Huge "optimal" what are you smoking? The drones optimal (unless sentry drones) is when orbiting around the ship. They first need to FLY to that ship. Heavy drones (the ones people always cry "OMFG DPS" about), are very slow and take a LOOONG time to get over to the target. That is if they can keep up with the target at all - No tracking issues? I guess you haven't heard about the bug where training drone navigation causes them to orbit faster, thus outrunning their own tracking and missing more often. Heavy drones have a very poor tracking on small ships anyways (just like any other weapon system). And when fast drones chase after a target with a MWD, they often overshoot the target, which results in lost tracking/optimal once again. "No tracking issues"... yeah right.... - No cap usage? There are other weapon systems in-game with no cap usage. So what? - No ammo? There are other weapon system with virtually no ammo usage. Amar's lasers have virtually no ammo requirements (once the crystal is loaded) - No need for slots on the ship? WTF are you smoking? To get a decent control range to come close to the "huge optimal" you mentioned, we need modules, usually 2 of them just to get a mediocre ~100km range. You will also need Drone Navigation computers to avoid waiting 10 minutes for the drones to fly those 100km. And Omni directional tracking links to make them hit smaller things better. And speaking of modules, how about this: we don't have any modules for drones that can increase their damage (sentries excluded) You know what, thank you Crumplecorn. You just illustrated that people calling for drone nerfs have no ******* clue what they are talking about and got no idea how they even work man I had no idea that drone boats were so rubbish. That must be why no-one flies them CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Skraeling Shortbus Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.12.01 00:28:00 - [139] I got attacked by a nanoishtar in my ratting setup raven a day or two ago. Now since drone boats are omfg overpowered according to some i should have died right? Well no i didnt actually, i managed to tank this ishtar with a get this... LARGE shield booster and not even a t2 one. I had 2 kinetic hardeners on and that was it so i pretty much had no tank at all as this was a raven setup just to rat gurista... so i also had a tractor beam and a cloak in the highs. Did i die? heh, no. Instead of panicking like a noob i launched my drones and was almost insta popping his heavy drones. I tanked him for a good 3 minutes before help came in the form of a single friendly harbinger. Ishtar proceeds to die. But yea drones are overpowerd guys hehehe. Still love my droneships, but i must be a masochist. Love to the Assault Frigate!
Danbar Roth Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.01 00:30:00 - [140] Make make amarr drones repair their shield in dronebay...about the only feature that would want me to use amarr drones.

Cleric JohnPreston	Posted - 2007.12.01 00:48:00 - [141] Id see thru it if the **ing drones were working, but the cutns are still fcking **** to the nith degree. Cheers CCp. Nerfed my Dps, took away the shield regen, and didnt bother to fix the ****** drone problem which we had for years.
sbreach Gallente PezCo - Ice Services Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.12.01 01:16:00 - [142] Assuming the drone AI really is improved, Drones which are recalled are recalled and the many glitches and fun features drones unexpectedly had are improved upon / removed, I can live with these things, As a drone user myself, i got bare minimal gunnery skills whilst specialising in drones. BW sounded like a good idea until drone bays were increased or so. The domi already had waves of drones . Though i do feel gallente are getting the short straw for a change, the NOS nerf (albeit balancing a overpowered module) and now drone kinda nerf but with some buffs. Amarr seem to of got some love if i understand right so good to them. When ever i think of waves of drones, id assume waves are into the 5-10 set (with the largest drone they can use) since the domi can easily do waves and waves of light drones . I dont know the full effects of the BW change, what drones can the ishtar now field? can it still do heavies or stuck to meds? Before people were grumbling about the mymr being to good for heavies since before it was only the ishtar which could use heavies and the domi and the mymr, whilst losing the ability to nano could tank quite effectively and not move like a giant potato in mud. Also im not to sure on why people hated the recall = recharged shield thing. You would expect some kind of internal system to do things and maybe not instantly youd expect a better regen rate, crappy analogy being, sleeping off a illness for 1 night then having the illness and staying active for 2 days. And as a gallente ship pilot, sure take power from shield regen or so to boost my drones shield, thats the buffer line, it lets me know when my armour repairers should be turned on. You hail the end of drone ships, well granted there not going to be as useful, but the Dominix, Ishtar, Vexor and arbitrator and so are still going to be good ships. The Dominix will always be fill the role of a cheap, varied and semi decent tank to isk input. The Nos Domi was only 1 variant. The myrm was overpowered, all i hope for now is the drakes passive tank gets nerfed to hell! BC should be not able to tank a battle BS let alone watching videos on youtube of one tanking 4 BS's. but least the damage is pitiful. Also, the changes arent ingame yet, with ever great nerf before the change people spell doom and gloom, im going to quit can i have your stuff, adapt or die and the changes arent even in full swing. i mean how many people would let multiple MWDS be fit on a ship, WCS with NO penalties or Battleships being faster and out manoeuvring interceptors? all great whines of the past! While of course people would prefer the older ways since it benefit them, generally after the nerf people see sense to it. emphasis on the WCS nerf. While drones may not be regarded as overpowered as these were, maybe the balancing wont be to bad. i mean Drones should return to the drone bay now! that will save me more drones then the shield regen thing itself!
hydraSlav Synergy Evolved Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.03 00:36:00 - [143] All this outrage at the thought that scooping drones regens their shields (yes, stupid concept from RP perspective... but i care more about gameplay).... ... But have you stopped for a second to think that drones are the ONLY weapon system that you can shoot and completely destroy? I can't plug the missile launchers on caldari, i can't destroy turret of any other ships. No other weapon system is targettable. None. As i've evidenced above, drones have advantages and disadvantages just like any other weapon system. But drones are still the only targettable weapon system. When they allow targetting of missile bays and turrets, then we can talk about the HP of those compared to drone's shield regen. But until drones are the only weapon system that suffers from being targettable... lay off my drones == Above comments are my personal views Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
Bryg Philomena Green Lantern Corps	Posted - 2007.12.03 01:01:00 - [144] Originally by: Jupiter Sun equip a remote repper in your highs to fix your drones and stop depending upon a soon to be dead lame mechanic. This is one of the worst suggestions, assume a myrm is in battle with even three ships, it can then only take care of 2 drones. And they will pop before you get a lock. Try this on a domi, oh wait, it doesnt have cap. I'd like to be able to shoot your guns, and watch you remote rep em. Hell, you can not lose your guns, your guns dont get targeted by sentries, and you can overload them. I'm sorry, but is there a reason to have a drone boat anymore? Originally by: CCP Wrangler Am I reading this correctly? You claim you have a bug that undresses female avatars??? Your signature image exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.03 01:40:00 - [145] Originally by: hydraSlav All this outrage at the thought that scooping drones regens their shields (yes, stupid concept from RP perspective... but i care more about gameplay).... ... But have you stopped for a second to think that drones are the ONLY weapon system that you can shoot and completely destroy? I can't plug the missile launchers on caldari, i can't destroy turret of any other ships. No other weapon system is targettable. None. As i've evidenced above, drones have advantages and disadvantages just like any other weapon system. But drones are still the only targettable weapon system. When they allow targetting of missile bays and turrets, then we can talk about the HP of those compared to drone's shield regen. But until drones are the only weapon system that suffers from being targettable... lay off my drones And when missiles don't equire ammo, hi-slots, grid or CPU, and can damage targets moving at more than 2k, then I'll care. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Araxmas The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency	Posted - 2007.12.03 03:08:00 - [146] Originally by: CHAOS100 Edited by: CHAOS100 on 01/12/2007 00:10:55 I love how most of the people for the NERF are caldari, who can insta-pop or 2 volley any drone with a nighthawk or drake. Just because someones race is caldari does not mean they fly caldari. -------- The Derek Quote Pyramid
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.12.03 03:39:00 - [147] Originally by: Araxmas Originally by: CHAOS100 Edited by: CHAOS100 on 01/12/2007 00:10:55 I love how most of the people for the NERF are caldari, who can insta-pop or 2 volley any drone with a nighthawk or drake. Just because someones race is caldari does not mean they fly caldari. Some people like to throw themselves at a ship and not realize "Hey, that's not a good idea". Drake might look like an easy kill, but with decent missile skills will 2 volley Ogre II's... but will never manage to hurt a nano ishtar. I know this.. one held me under sentry fire until I got him down to one set of Warrior II's before I finally died, I think he lost more isk in T2 drones than he got in loot off of me, but he did get the kill I fly both a Myrm and Drake, I've never had an issue with the Myrm as I don't use heavies (I like having multiple options, and when -10, ECM drones are a lifesaver). I can't say anything for the Eos, Ishtar or Domi (I prefer a mega). But the changes aren't affecting my drone useage much, even on the ships that I use drones as my primary damage dealers. ____________________ Hi. I'm not an alt :)
Artemis Dragmire Deadspace Armada Lost Children of Eve	Posted - 2007.12.03 05:43:00 - [148] to the OP: I don't know what you mean about drone boats dying on Sisi. I've racked up at least 10+ kills undefeated in my ishtar. Only lost once to a well set up gang of a heavy inderdictor, ea frigate, and a curse (damn curses!). I've killed things ranging from deimos & phobos, to curses/pilgrims, to broadswords and huginns.
Scathson	Posted - 2007.12.03 06:34:00 - [149] Edited by: Scathson on 03/12/2007 06:34:30 Originally by: hydraSlav All this outrage at the thought that scooping drones regens their shields (yes, stupid concept from RP perspective... but i care more about gameplay).... ... But have you stopped for a second to think that drones are the ONLY weapon system that you can shoot and completely destroy? I can't plug the missile launchers on caldari, i can't destroy turret of any other ships. No other weapon system is targettable. None. As i've evidenced above, drones have advantages and disadvantages just like any other weapon system. But drones are still the only targettable weapon system. When they allow targetting of missile bays and turrets, then we can talk about the HP of those compared to drone's shield regen. But until drones are the only weapon system that suffers from being targettable... lay off my drones exactly - nuff said
Scathson	Posted - 2007.12.03 06:36:00 - [150] Originally by: Bryg Philomena Originally by: Jupiter Sun equip a remote repper in your highs to fix your drones and stop depending upon a soon to be dead lame mechanic. This is one of the worst suggestions, assume a myrm is in battle with even three ships, it can then only take care of 2 drones. And they will pop before you get a lock. Try this on a domi, oh wait, it doesnt have cap. I'd like to be able to shoot your guns, and watch you remote rep em. Hell, you can not lose your guns, your guns dont get targeted by sentries, and you can overload them. I'm sorry, but is there a reason to have a drone boat anymore? thank-you refute that - caldari

Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol The Fifth Race	Posted - 2007.12.03 06:40:00 - [151] Originally by: Khald Edited by: Khald on 29/11/2007 17:37:23 Doesnt the new system with bandwidth allow the drone boats to have multipul waves of drones. So send one wave out it gets shields chewed up pullem back send out another wave etc. Fail. You could already do that with most major droneships. The fact that they're socking drones in the butt to say "But now you can send out 5 waves of medium t2 drones at your opponent" when we all know how much drones cost isn't a very nice thing to do :( If I wanted to send wave after wave of drones at people, give me a Myrmidon with 125m3 bandwidth and a 250m3 dronebay. Then we can talk about CCP's wave technique. Think before you speak. _________________ Burn.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests Cult of War	Posted - 2007.12.03 07:31:00 - [152] Originally by: Grimpak ...and this is bad why.....? lol
LUH 3471	Posted - 2007.12.03 07:41:00 - [153] Originally by: Scathson Edited by: Scathson on 03/12/2007 06:34:30 Originally by: hydraSlav All this outrage at the thought that scooping drones regens their shields (yes, stupid concept from RP perspective... but i care more about gameplay).... ... But have you stopped for a second to think that drones are the ONLY weapon system that you can shoot and completely destroy? I can't plug the missile launchers on caldari, i can't destroy turret of any other ships. No other weapon system is targettable. None. As i've evidenced above, drones have advantages and disadvantages just like any other weapon system. But drones are still the only targettable weapon system. When they allow targetting of missile bays and turrets, then we can talk about the HP of those compared to drone's shield regen. But until drones are the only weapon system that suffers from being targettable... lay off my drones exactly - nuff said qft
Minmatar Citizen 4521577	Posted - 2007.12.03 07:52:00 - [154] Two months ago: "blah blah blah and you can destroy them so it's all balanced and well" Today: "whaah waah waah they can be destroyed waah waah waah"
Acinonyx Jubatus Minmatar International Multi-Player Consortium Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.03 08:23:00 - [155] I personally doubt drones are useless in trinity :/ Heck, with some of the new drone features they've gotten quite improved. Yeah it's a bummer to some you can't scoopredeploy and be all fancy free, but I won't get into that.
Darken Two Gallente Cruororis Consors Conlegium Ivy League	Posted - 2007.12.03 09:21:00 - [156] Originally by: Acinonyx Jubatus I personally doubt drones are useless in trinity :/ Heck, with some of the new drone features they've gotten quite improved. Yeah it's a bummer to some you can't scoopredeploy and be all fancy free, but I won't get into that. Seriosuly...what are these new features that everyone is harping on about? I been playing with drones on SISI for a month now and other than a couple new commands for the drones (Which are really bug fixes which were promised to us drones user years ago), I am yet to see one useful feature that would make drones stand out. Oh yea you can set them to passive now and avoid the drones aggroing entire mission rooms...YIPEE, such a friggin problem should have never existed in teh first place. Fixing a bug and then calling it a feature, won't make it so. Originally by: Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2007.12.03 09:34:00 - [157] The scooping nerf was necessary. Honestly scooping to regen shields was lame. I still did/do it, but it doesn't make it any less lame. So the nerf was needed. However, along with the nerf we should have gotten the "multiple waves" that were so glowingly promised in the fabulous bandwidth blog. But we didn't get the multiple waves. Instead we got more nerf. Only two ships got their drone bays increased. All the others stayed the same or even decreased. How exactly does that translate into "multiple waves"? The answer is simple... use smaller drones. As long as you have a dronebay >25m3 then you can have multiple waves! Sure, you might not be able to kill anything, but think of the flexibility you now have! You can field lots of different equally ineffective drones (unless of course you are only attacking frigates, in which case you pwn). What was needed with the scoop nerf was a larger drone bay on every ship. That allows the foretold greater flexibility. That allows the multiple waves. Because with the scoop nerf, drones will die. Alot. Which is fine, that's what drones are suppossed to do. But there needs to be reloads, without having to drop down to a lower size. Unfortunately, CCP's recent ideas of "balance" mean - beat it with the nerf stick until it's not moving, and then think about buffing it later (see ECM). Will probably be the same with Damps and Drones as well. Pretty crappy way of handling game balance imo, but hey, it's their game. Taxman IV: Rogue Agent
Lord DerekSegan	Posted - 2007.12.03 09:46:00 - [158] Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff ... Only two ships got their drone bays increased. All the others stayed the same or even decreased. How exactly does that translate into "multiple waves"? The answer is simple... use smaller drones. As long as you have a dronebay >25m3 then you can have multiple waves! Sure, you might not be able to kill anything, but think of the flexibility you now have! You can field lots of different equally ineffective drones (unless of course you are only attacking frigates, in which case you pwn). ... I almost agree with you. But the fact is that the Myrm was WAY over powered. Caldari missile ships have been borderline useless in PVP for a long time. This is just bringing you back in line and taking away your solowtfpwnmobile. Hello
Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2007.12.03 10:02:00 - [159] Originally by: Lord DerekSegan I almost agree with you. But the fact is that the Myrm was WAY over powered. Caldari missile ships have been borderline useless in PVP for a long time. This is just bringing you back in line and taking away your solowtfpwnmobile. The Myrm was overpowered, it did need to get nerfed. Don't really care much about it. But you're a bit off base there mate. Nowhere did I ever mention the Myrm. Do you see where I mentioned it? No? Honestly where does your little rant come from? Myrm thread is that way ---> What I'm concerned about is all the semi-droneboat ships. The ones with 40-50m3 of dronebay where drones make up a good percentage of the ship's damage. This nerf screws them pretty hard. Taxman IV: Rogue Agent
Ashen Wraith	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:08:00 - [160] RIP Curse

Orestes Domini	Posted - 2007.12.03 13:33:00 - [161] Originally by: Darken Two Edited by: Darken Two on 30/11/2007 07:48:02 Well just was on SISI, seems the drone shields do recharge in the bay....but at an extremely slow rate. However, they managed to screw it up completely by making the drone interface in such a manner that you cannot see the drone's health in the bay. So you cannot tell which drones are damaged and which ones are not. Scoop drones and send out some other wave? -- i havent been on test server cause i cba to install eve 2 times.. but --- you cant tell what drone is what..they get scooped back into the bay and you can no longer see the status of shield/armor/hull.(currently) Scoop, and relaunch like im in vegas placing a bet that fresh drones will come out? Usually(currently) when i relaunch, damaged drones are deployed. Oops. If this is not the case.. no need to flog me -- just ignore. Also - to reload guns/missiles may be what 10 seconds? Micromanaging drones, further than we already do --for wave selection(if you could select)/targeting for repair/repairing/recalling from distance/fitting highslots for rep/etc/all the "workarounds".. ok.. wow also, while were whining-- lets get eves ingame browser loading the EVE site!!! or rip that junk.wtf
Temu Djinn	Posted - 2007.12.03 14:12:00 - [162] Originally by: Khald Edited by: Khald on 29/11/2007 17:37:23 Doesnt the new system with bandwidth allow the drone boats to have multipul waves of drones. So send one wave out it gets shields chewed up pullem back send out another wave etc. Yes but can you see WHICH drones are "Fresh" and which ones have damage - you can't currently which is a PITA as if I could chose which drones to send out I would lose less
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.12.03 14:17:00 - [163] i am so tired of hearing people whine about overpowered ships getting balanced.. pls FEAKING LEAVE THE GAME IF YOUR THAT UNSATISFIED!!! and contract your stuff to me first.. no better sell it all then send the isk:P
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.12.03 14:20:00 - [164] Edited by: Janu Hull on 03/12/2007 14:22:53 Originally by: Scathson Originally by: Bryg Philomena Originally by: Jupiter Sun equip a remote repper in your highs to fix your drones and stop depending upon a soon to be dead lame mechanic. This is one of the worst suggestions, assume a myrm is in battle with even three ships, it can then only take care of 2 drones. And they will pop before you get a lock. Try this on a domi, oh wait, it doesnt have cap. I'd like to be able to shoot your guns, and watch you remote rep em. Hell, you can not lose your guns, your guns dont get targeted by sentries, and you can overload them. I'm sorry, but is there a reason to have a drone boat anymore? thank-you refute that - caldari My guns and missiles run out of ammunition. For ratting pilots, my ammunition takes up cargo space I'd just as soon use for loot and salvage. My capacity to rat continuously is an ongoing and head wracking struggle to balance carrying enough ammunition to actually fill the remainder of my hold with loot and carrying so much ammunition I'm forced to abandon valuable loot items because of space considerations.
Augeas	Posted - 2007.12.03 14:36:00 - [165] So much whining about people shooting drones. Shooting drones is only really done in 1v1s or very small gangs - the rest of the time it's better to actually shoot the droneboat instead. Hell, even in a 1v1, most of the time it's better to shoot the droneboat instead. Especially if you know that that droneboat can just replace its lost drones... If you really think droneboats are useless, try flying something like a Ferox. You'll soon be running home to your beloved Myrm crying about how stupid you've been...
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.03 14:37:00 - [166] Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin Originally by: Tarminic Er...every drone ship except for the Myrmidon and Eos have been either unchanged or benefit from the nerf. In addition dedicated drone ships boost the HP of their drones, meaning that since drone shields don't instantly regenerate they'll harder to kill than the drones of non-dedicated drone ships. To claim that this is a drone ship nerf, while ignoring all the other drone improvements such as meta-level drones, improved behavior and additional control options, is lame. I think some Amarr pilots would love to tell you otherwise. Also, I think everyone knows that drone ships get a drone HP boost - isn't that a key part of play now, Tarminic? I'm about as Amarr-specialised as it gets, and I quite like the thought of my Arbitrator hulls getting to use three waves of five medium drones. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Alezia Fireblazer Perkone	Posted - 2007.12.03 14:44:00 - [167] We could put mimmatar slaves into the drone bay and they could increase the drone regeneration rate while taking up drone space.
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.03 15:11:00 - [168] Originally by: Minmatar Citizen 4521577 Two months ago: "blah blah blah and you can destroy them so it's all balanced and well" Today: "whaah waah waah they can be destroyed waah waah waah" This http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdd74kLxgGo
Andre Coeurl Gallente TOHA Heavy Industries Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.12.03 18:45:00 - [169] All the talk here is useless because it involves drone users (who know how drones work, strong points and weak points and all, and know that using drones is not a "I win" button) and drone-haters (who just don't like other people to be able to have a weapon they apparently don't understand at all). This kind of discussion will invariably go on forever, against any rational drone argument there will just be the usual "lol", "adapt or die", "you just got nerfed so who cares", "you just got nerfed so hooray" and so on... The only apparently rational responses are just specious and sophistic, evidently ignoring some points and wastly boosting marginal others. This said, if the SiSi changes will go live as they are, after the patch we'll simply see the price of some ships fall, and that will be the proof that the nerf was exaggerate. If CCP will regain some perspective, they'll revert some of what they took away from drone users, in the meanwhile some ships will simply stay in hangars waiting for a better time. To be sure my Myrmidon will, while I'll fly my Brutix, or skill for Drake/Harbinger/Hurricane if I want to use a value-for-money tier 2 BC. --- --- ---
Audio Bully	Posted - 2007.12.03 18:54:00 - [170] st fu plx. Drone ships arne't useless, and you know it so stop crying and move on __________________________________________________ Great being Amarr, Minmatar, and Caldari isn't it?

Ulstan	Posted - 2007.12.03 19:03:00 - [171] Edited by: Ulstan on 03/12/2007 19:03:56 There are a lot of spoiled whiners in here. Drones are balanced around the assumption that they can be shot at and destroyed. That's the entire underlying design for the weapon system. Abusing the 'insta shield recharge' bug gave drones a virtual invulnerability, and this is an imbalance I am glad to see CCP moving to address. Complaining that your drones can be destroyed is just missing the point in a grand fashion. They're supposed to be vulnerable to destruction. Your drones will recharge at normal rates in their holds. I've heard CCP is even going to give us a badly needed update to the horrendously clunky drone interface so that we can see the status of drones in the hold.
NeoTheo Caldari Species 5618 R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.12.03 19:30:00 - [172] Originally by: Janu Hull Edited by: Janu Hull on 03/12/2007 14:22:53 Originally by: Scathson Originally by: Bryg Philomena Originally by: Jupiter Sun equip a remote repper in your highs to fix your drones and stop depending upon a soon to be dead lame mechanic. This is one of the worst suggestions, assume a myrm is in battle with even three ships, it can then only take care of 2 drones. And they will pop before you get a lock. Try this on a domi, oh wait, it doesnt have cap. I'd like to be able to shoot your guns, and watch you remote rep em. Hell, you can not lose your guns, your guns dont get targeted by sentries, and you can overload them. I'm sorry, but is there a reason to have a drone boat anymore? thank-you refute that - caldari My guns and missiles run out of ammunition. For ratting pilots, my ammunition takes up cargo space I'd just as soon use for loot and salvage. My capacity to rat continuously is an ongoing and head wracking struggle to balance carrying enough ammunition to actually fill the remainder of my hold with loot and carrying so much ammunition I'm forced to abandon valuable loot items because of space considerations. what he said, that and the fact that when was the last time you ever saw someone damp or ECM a drone? ohhh thats right, almost fekin never.
Gunner Flashman Services	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:29:00 - [173] Originally by: Inir Ishtori now with the shield recharge nerf, bandwidth nerf und people not losing lock on scooped drones(i really hope it was just a bug and it's fixed now) AND still not being able to see their health status when scooped it is too much of a hassle to fly a drone ship into a battle imo. Are you serious about the not losing lock issue when drones are scooped into drone bay? If this is true it would be very bad. *** 2007.10.06 R.I.P. Hatuk my friend.
Inir Ishtori The Guardian Agency Guardian Federation	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:08:00 - [174] Originally by: Gunner Are you serious about the not losing lock issue when drones are scooped into drone bay? If this is true it would be very bad. this was reported on SiSi multiple times about 2 weeks ago. maybe it is fixed now, maybe not - i can't test it myself.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.04 13:24:00 - [175] Originally by: Andre Coeurl This said, if the SiSi changes will go live as they are, after the patch we'll simply see the price of some ships fall, and that will be the proof that the nerf was exaggerate. Or it might just be evidence that those ships were too good to start with. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.04 13:27:00 - [176] Cry more, seriously. WTF have you been smoking that causes our brain to malfunction to the point that you cannot understand that this is a justified change to drone mechanics, and an improvement for said droneships in many aspects. They should have done this much, much earlier. Also, post with your main. Sig removed for the third time, inappropriate content. Sig Locked. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Saladin Minmatar Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.04 13:35:00 - [177] I am all for drone ships having to sacrifice high slots for remote reps to keep their drones repaired. However, with current mechanics, it means they would need to sacrifice a high slot or two for remote reps and about 3 med slots for sensor boosters so they don't wait forever to lock them.
KtB Elite Storm Enterprises Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.12.04 14:14:00 - [178] Edited by: KtB on 04/12/2007 14:16:02 Meh i've spoke my opinion on this subject many times. Drones can be killed easily, waves wont work... Ooo yay we can put out more drone... Oh **** i cant break a cruisers tank because im limited to how many i can use.. The problem here is "drone boats" have always been gun boats with drones attached... Really drone boats should have 1 or 2 turret slots max with maybe 3/4 max turrets for nos. Making them REAL drone boats, where you use drones as your weapon. This nerf has destroyed alot of peoples skill training thats taken a long long time. E.g. who is going to bother buying and eos over an astarte? Lets compare to two shall we? Eos Trinity - 6 low 5 med 5 high max of 3 heavy drones Astarte - 6 low 4 med 7 high max of 2 heavy drones Even though the eos has drone bonus' do you really think itll get anywhere as close to the dps or tank of the astarte with 7 turrets with bonus' and 2 heavies?? Its the same with the myrmidon and the brutix. Ccp have really messed this one up and not thought this through properly. They have nerfed drones to decrease the load on the server but gone and added ANOTHER value for the server to have to calculate. If you want to nerf drone boats dont nerf their drones, nerf their high slots. Drones can be killed easily enough as it is if youve got half a brain, now they will be worthless. I for one would like my skillpoints refunding but we know ccp wont do that meh.. Edit Also for the people who moan that the ships should be nerfed in this way and dont even fly them... STFU. If you dont fly the ship you should have no say imo, especially you caldari pilots liking the extra mid slot on the myrm for your own pleasure. We gallente pilots KNOW a few ships need to be nerfed but NOT in this way and NOT to this extent. Nerfing things only leads to more nerfing, with an endless cycle destroying the game! Prevention is better than the cure!
Khald Gallente Armaments Board	Posted - 2007.12.04 14:34:00 - [179] Edited by: Khald on 04/12/2007 14:35:38 Edited by: Khald on 04/12/2007 14:35:03 Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Originally by: Khald Edited by: Khald on 29/11/2007 17:37:23 Doesnt the new system with bandwidth allow the drone boats to have multipul waves of drones. So send one wave out it gets shields chewed up pullem back send out another wave etc. Fail. You could already do that with most major droneships. The fact that they're socking drones in the butt to say "But now you can send out 5 waves of medium t2 drones at your opponent" when we all know how much drones cost isn't a very nice thing to do :( If I wanted to send wave after wave of drones at people, give me a Myrmidon with 125m3 bandwidth and a 250m3 dronebay. Then we can talk about CCP's wave technique. Think before you speak. My question was a question I for got the question mark. If the drone bay wont support having 5 heavys in waves its because its overpowered. I had a myrmidon and high drne skills. I had problems targeting ships in PVE before my drones killed them.
Taedrin Gallente Magellan Exploration and Survey Rare Faction	Posted - 2007.12.04 14:41:00 - [180] With the coming drone nerf, I might just dust off my Myrmidon and see how the larger drone bay and bandwidth restrictions alter the dynamics...

Harm Gently Naughty 40 Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.04 14:42:00 - [181] Originally by: Khald My question was a question I for got the question mark. If the drone bay wont support having 5 heavys in waves its because its overpowered. I had a myrmidon and high drne skills. I had problems targeting ships in PVE before my drones killed them. Lies, you can't even have a mil sp in drones 'cause your portrait aint showing.. Just post with your main, how hard can it be?
Benedic The Aftermath	Posted - 2007.12.04 14:43:00 - [182] Edited by: Benedic on 04/12/2007 14:43:36 Smartbombs in utility slots > droneboats, now more than ever. Grats. To all the naysayers, how many SP do YOU have in drones? Have YOU tested on SiSi? If drones sp < 4m, and test time =< 5 minutes kindly stfu. The scoop = regen was about as broken as drone ai. Sadly, only one of these has been fixed to any degree. Drone HPs were not buffed with ship hps, they have to last that much longer now. Maybe you enjoy flying with T1 crap, maybe you are rich and can afford to lose wave after wave of hammerhead IIs, if so, kindly send some ISK this way.
Isan Danderoda Strix Armaments and Defence Acheron Federation	Posted - 2007.12.04 14:51:00 - [183] Though I'm primarily a drone user this change doesn't bother me. I always thought that the whole scoop and release thing was some serious meta-gaming in action. I wouldn't have minded if it insta-recharged their shields by dropping some of yours or your cap. But it didn't, and honestly that kind of sucked. I don't mind adjusting, and honestly I look forward to this new challenge.
Khald Gallente Armaments Board	Posted - 2007.12.04 15:20:00 - [184] Originally by: Harm Gently Originally by: Khald My question was a question I for got the question mark. If the drone bay wont support having 5 heavys in waves its because its overpowered. I had a myrmidon and high drne skills. I had problems targeting ships in PVE before my drones killed them. Lies, you can't even have a mil sp in drones 'cause your portrait aint showing.. Just post with your main, how hard can it be? have about 2.6 over all started as spec forces gallente dont have a mil, but have like 600k. Never stated that I had maxed drone skills. Still pwn with drones in pve.
KtB Elite Storm Enterprises Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.12.04 15:28:00 - [185] So now someones arguing you should only be able to damage with t2 drones more or less? Way to vote towards making the game even more elitist than it already is.. ------------------ Nerfing things only leads to more nerfing, with an endless cycle destroying the game! Prevention is better than the cure! ------------------
Harm Gently Naughty 40 Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.04 18:55:00 - [186] Originally by: Khald have about 2.6 over all started as spec forces gallente dont have a mil, but have like 600k. Never stated that I had maxed drone skills. Still pwn with drones in pve. Right, that doesn't qualify as "high drone skills" but rather "low". And they're not being "balanced" because they pwn in pve, which they don't if you only have 600k sp in drones for that matter. But this is off topic. Come back when you have 4mil in drones because right now you seem pretty clueless.


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