Before the "upgrade" to server-side storage the in game fitting management tool would fit rigs as well. So, assuming you had all the stuff in your inventory all you had to do was assemble ship, make active go to the fitting tool pick the fit you want, then click fit, at that point you just grouped your guns and added ammo and charges and you were ready to go.

Now you have to manually hunt down and add rigs one at a time, just seemed like a pointless change. Then again the whole change was kind of pointless particularly when it took away functionality, I mean seriously all the data this game tracks and it can spare a little extra storage for say a more reasonable number of saved fittings or even unlimited after all it's not like huge bloated picture files here.

Before the "upgrade" to server-side storage the in game fitting management tool would fit rigs as well. So, assuming you had all the stuff in your inventory all you had to do was assemble ship, make active go to the fitting tool pick the fit you want, then click fit, at that point you just grouped your guns and added ammo and charges and you were ready to go.

Out of interest, what cap would be acceptable. There has to be a cap or people will never bother with cleaning up the fittings they never use and nobody likes having useless data in our DB if we can avoid it.

I was just looking at the stats from TQ after reading this and:
Out of ~310k characters only ~102k have more than 10 fittings saved or a little less than a third of all people using fittings.
Looking at the rest of the gap there are ~58k characters with twenty or more fittings saved, 37k with thirty or more, ~23k with forty and a little less than 8k pilots are already on the limit of fifty.

On the corporation side (Max of 100 fittings) we have a total of ~35k corporations saving their fittings.
~11k of those have more than ten fittings, ~6k with more than twenty, ~4k with more than thirty, ~3K with more than forty and moving to ~1.5K, then ~500, ~250, ~150, ~100 and then finally ~35 with all 100 slots filled.

So seeing as corporations must have fittings for all the different operations they are in as well as probably some baseline skill requirements per operational type and only 35 of those find themselves limited by the current 100 maximum: Would you be happy with that max on characters as well? Without even hinting at a promise of doing anything I can tell you that this change is essentially trivial. However, if you really want to remove personal fittings from the DB and back to the client then you're back in ClientLand. I don't really do ClientLand so I cannot speak to the complexity of that. But I sure don't mind removing your data from the database. I love removing data!

At any rate, just thought I'd pipe in on the discussion as that's what I'm doing these days.

If the fittings would be local, the dB usage would be pretty much 0 bytes / 1000 fittings.

I was just looking at the stats from TQ after reading this and:
Out of ~310k characters etc.

Out of interest, what cap would be acceptable. There has to be a cap or people will never bother with cleaning up the fittings they never use and nobody likes having useless data in our DB if we can avoid it.

I was just looking at the stats from TQ after reading this and:
Out of ~310k characters only ~102k have more than 10 fittings saved or a little less than a third of all people using fittings.
Looking at the rest of the gap there are ~58k characters with twenty or more fittings saved, 37k with thirty or more, ~23k with forty and a little less than 8k pilots are already on the limit of fifty.

On the corporation side (Max of 100 fittings) we have a total of ~35k corporations saving their fittings.
~11k of those have more than ten fittings, ~6k with more than twenty, ~4k with more than thirty, ~3K with more than forty and moving to ~1.5K, then ~500, ~250, ~150, ~100 and then finally ~35 with all 100 slots filled.

So seeing as corporations must have fittings for all the different operations they are in as well as probably some baseline skill requirements per operational type and only 35 of those find themselves limited by the current 100 maximum: Would you be happy with that max on characters as well? Without even hinting at a promise of doing anything I can tell you that this change is essentially trivial. However, if you really want to remove personal fittings from the DB and back to the client then you're back in ClientLand. I don't really do ClientLand so I cannot speak to the complexity of that. But I sure don't mind removing your data from the database. I love removing data!

At any rate, just thought I'd pipe in on the discussion as that's what I'm doing these days.

If the fittings would be local, the dB usage would be pretty much 0 bytes / 1000 fittings.

This is an interesting number.

Yeah I'd have thought more people would use the "Save Fitting" feature.

Yeah I'd have thought more people would use the "Save Fitting" feature.

I'm referring to the "~310k characters".

Optimally, you'd be able to store in both locations GÇö things you want to make sure you have everywhere (and, obviously, corp fittings) go into the cloud; fittings you're just toying around with and/or you will only ever use one computer goes local.

So the question is: how hard would that be GÇö to read and write fittings to two different locations?

Yeah I'd have thought more people would use the "Save Fitting" feature.

Out of interest, what cap would be acceptable. There has to be a cap or people will never bother with cleaning up the fittings they never use and nobody likes having useless data in our DB if we can avoid it.

Only ~310k characters have at least 1 fitting. That isn't "interesting", at least not in the way you're implying it to be.

Pardon us, Mother, for perhaps wanting not to be bothered about any messiness we might have, in the game that we pay for

But if the fittings were local, and your comp decides to go on vacation, or you use more than one computer... you're doomed.

Yeah I'd have thought more people would use the "Save Fitting" feature.

Yeah I'd have thought more people would use the "Save Fitting" feature.

Dude, you are an idiot. Database clutter affects every player in the game. If you double the size of a database, the retrieval time goes up by between two and four times depending on the circumstances.

Pick your **** up you disgusting slob, is what I'm saying.



To be honest, I don't really understand personal fittings. I custom fit every ship I fly for the job at hand. I would only ever using a fitting if I was doing a job regularly, and often lost that ship. I can't see you having 50 jobs that you do on a regular basis, all of which involve losing the ships often enough to warrant having a fitting saved.

Seems to me we have a lot of people like Gorki here, who simply can't be ****** deleting fits. Now, that's not a problem, I don't bother either, but then, I don't use the fitting tool. To ***** about how you don't have enough slots just because you can't be bothered deleting some of your old fits or exporting obsolete ones seems childish.

50 fits is a lot. If its not enough, sure, raise it to 100. But grey here is a moron. Why trumpet local fittings for the sake of it being local, when it makes no difference whatsoever if you take a few seconds to delete stuff every now and then? I mean, I guess sure, have an option to do either, or or pick one, or whatever. Just don't waste developer time faffing around.

Its a bit of a non issue, is what I'm saying.

Dude, you are an idiot. Database clutter affects every player in the game. If you double the size of a database, the retrieval time goes up by between two and four times depending on the circumstances.

Pick your **** up you disgusting slob, is what I'm saying.

However, if you really want to remove personal fittings from the DB and back to the client then you're back in ClientLand. I don't really do ClientLand so I cannot speak to the complexity of that.

First of all, I am not your dude.


Secondly, if I want to have 5 dozen Celestis fittings, I should really be able to have that. Why can't I? The amount of DB space required for fittings is probably small in the grand scheme of things.

I would just love to be able to have the old system back.

I was just looking at the stats from TQ after reading this and:
Out of ~310k characters only ~102k have more than 10 fittings saved or a little less than a third of all people using fittings.
Looking at the rest of the gap there are ~58k characters with twenty or more fittings saved, 37k with thirty or more, ~23k with forty and a little less than 8k pilots are already on the limit of fifty.

This is an interesting number.

This makes the most sense. If there were a third option...ie "Personal (max 50)" "Corp (max 100)" "Local (max unlimited)"

See how the usage changes with that, then look into adding additonal slots.

I'm a multi-computer user, so I prefer using the server-side storage. But as the quoted post above says, sometimes I'm just looking at fits temporarily or something and would use whatever machine I'm currently on for that.

KB

I am an incursion runner and I have 50 fittings already filling up.
100 please!

Yeah I'd have thought more people would use the "Save Fitting" feature.

Example: 597:25861;1:6673;3:439;1:4025;1:1183;1:1998;1:1236;1:11269;1::

DBAs never want to store data unless they see a real reason for it to be there. more data in the DB = slower db.

I seriously don't understand how it's a problem to store fittings. The server stores evemail data, notes, the fittings are smaller than the data in your inbox and your useless undeleted bookmarks.

People utilize the fittings menu for plenty of different tanks, any and all different purposes. Now you put it a limit of 50, which is hardly anything.

CCP can put a corp/alliance fitting limit that will just make it less great of a feature and mostly useless. Then you can make it highly more useless by putting personal/local limits. Or how about, just let us do whatever we want with the tool, because it seriously has no affect on anyone what so ever.

Unlimited fittings, local or serverside (I dont care), please and thanks.

They will never bump it higher than it is currently. The number was chosen because it was a marketing move for a future strategy,
Less than 50 there would have been lots more of complains about missing slots. More, you wouldn't be able to sell them through the Nex shop. 50 is the magic number.

I was just looking at the stats from TQ after reading this and:
Out of ~310k characters only ~102k have more than 10 fittings saved or a little less than a third of all people using fittings.
Looking at the rest of the gap there are ~58k characters with twenty or more fittings saved, 37k with thirty or more, ~23k with forty and a little less than 8k pilots are already on the limit of fifty.

Out of interest, what cap would be acceptable. There has to be a cap or people will never bother with cleaning up the fittings they never use and nobody likes having useless data in our DB if we can avoid it.

-------snip-------

and a little less than 8k pilots are already on the limit of fifty.

Out of interest, what cap would be acceptable. There has to be a cap or people will never bother with cleaning up the fittings they never use and nobody likes having useless data in our DB if we can avoid it.

I was just looking at the stats from TQ after reading this and:
Out of ~310k characters only ~102k have more than 10 fittings saved or a little less than a third of all people using fittings.
Looking at the rest of the gap there are ~58k characters with twenty or more fittings saved, 37k with thirty or more, ~23k with forty and a little less than 8k pilots are already on the limit of fifty.

On the corporation side (Max of 100 fittings) we have a total of ~35k corporations saving their fittings.
~11k of those have more than ten fittings, ~6k with more than twenty, ~4k with more than thirty, ~3K with more than forty and moving to ~1.5K, then ~500, ~250, ~150, ~100 and then finally ~35 with all 100 slots filled.

So seeing as corporations must have fittings for all the different operations they are in as well as probably some baseline skill requirements per operational type and only 35 of those find themselves limited by the current 100 maximum: Would you be happy with that max on characters as well? Without even hinting at a promise of doing anything I can tell you that this change is essentially trivial. However, if you really want to remove personal fittings from the DB and back to the client then you're back in ClientLand. I don't really do ClientLand so I cannot speak to the complexity of that. But I sure don't mind removing your data from the database. I love removing data!

At any rate, just thought I'd pipe in on the discussion as that's what I'm doing these days.

Out of interest, what cap would be acceptable. There has to be a cap or people will never bother with cleaning up the fittings they never use and nobody likes having useless data in our DB if we can avoid it.

I was just looking at the stats from TQ after reading this and:
Out of ~310k characters only ~102k have more than 10 fittings saved or a little less than a third of all people using fittings.
Looking at the rest of the gap there are ~58k characters with twenty or more fittings saved, 37k with thirty or more, ~23k with forty and a little less than 8k pilots are already on the limit of fifty.

On the corporation side (Max of 100 fittings) we have a total of ~35k corporations saving their fittings.
~11k of those have more than ten fittings, ~6k with more than twenty, ~4k with more than thirty, ~3K with more than forty and moving to ~1.5K, then ~500, ~250, ~150, ~100 and then finally ~35 with all 100 slots filled.

So seeing as corporations must have fittings for all the different operations they are in as well as probably some baseline skill requirements per operational type and only 35 of those find themselves limited by the current 100 maximum: Would you be happy with that max on characters as well? Without even hinting at a promise of doing anything I can tell you that this change is essentially trivial. However, if you really want to remove personal fittings from the DB and back to the client then you're back in ClientLand. I don't really do ClientLand so I cannot speak to the complexity of that. But I sure don't mind removing your data from the database. I love removing data!

At any rate, just thought I'd pipe in on the discussion as that's what I'm doing these days.

Yeah I'd have thought more people would use the "Save Fitting" feature.

Out of interest, what cap would be acceptable. There has to be a cap or people will never bother with cleaning up the fittings they never use and nobody likes having useless data in our DB if we can avoid it.

I was just looking at the stats from TQ after reading this and:
Out of ~310k characters only ~102k have more than 10 fittings saved or a little less than a third of all people using fittings.
Looking at the rest of the gap there are ~58k characters with twenty or more fittings saved, 37k with thirty or more, ~23k with forty and a little less than 8k pilots are already on the limit of fifty.

On the corporation side (Max of 100 fittings) we have a total of ~35k corporations saving their fittings.
~11k of those have more than ten fittings, ~6k with more than twenty, ~4k with more than thirty, ~3K with more than forty and moving to ~1.5K, then ~500, ~250, ~150, ~100 and then finally ~35 with all 100 slots filled.

So seeing as corporations must have fittings for all the different operations they are in as well as probably some baseline skill requirements per operational type and only 35 of those find themselves limited by the current 100 maximum: Would you be happy with that max on characters as well? Without even hinting at a promise of doing anything I can tell you that this change is essentially trivial. However, if you really want to remove personal fittings from the DB and back to the client then you're back in ClientLand. I don't really do ClientLand so I cannot speak to the complexity of that. But I sure don't mind removing your data from the database. I love removing data!

At any rate, just thought I'd pipe in on the discussion as that's what I'm doing these days.

GǪbut the thing is (and this is what those numbers actually mean) that no matter what you pick as a limit, it will be wrong.

Some people will need much more; some will need much less, or even none.

So I'm still wondering: why is a per-pilot limit needed? Won't the low-end users balance out the storage needs of the high-end users? What's the worst-case scenario of letting the high-end users run amuck until the DB gets unwieldy?

Put another way, if you give everyone 100 slots, how many will actually be used across the entire population? 3 million? How much will actually be used if everyone gets "unlimited" slots? 4 million? 6? 10? I have a sneaking suspicion (but that is all it is) that 300k user +ù GêP slots will be less than projecting for 300k users +ù 100 slots.

Out of interest, what cap would be acceptable. There has to be a cap or people will never bother with cleaning up the fittings they never use and nobody likes having useless data in our DB if we can avoid it.

I was just looking at the stats from TQ after reading this and:
Out of ~310k characters only ~102k have more than 10 fittings saved or a little less than a third of all people using fittings.
Looking at the rest of the gap there are ~58k characters with twenty or more fittings saved, 37k with thirty or more, ~23k with forty and a little less than 8k pilots are already on the limit of fifty.

On the corporation side (Max of 100 fittings) we have a total of ~35k corporations saving their fittings.
~11k of those have more than ten fittings, ~6k with more than twenty, ~4k with more than thirty, ~3K with more than forty and moving to ~1.5K, then ~500, ~250, ~150, ~100 and then finally ~35 with all 100 slots filled.

So seeing as corporations must have fittings for all the different operations they are in as well as probably some baseline skill requirements per operational type and only 35 of those find themselves limited by the current 100 maximum: Would you be happy with that max on characters as well? Without even hinting at a promise of doing anything I can tell you that this change is essentially trivial. However, if you really want to remove personal fittings from the DB and back to the client then you're back in ClientLand. I don't really do ClientLand so I cannot speak to the complexity of that. But I sure don't mind removing your data from the database. I love removing data!

At any rate, just thought I'd pipe in on the discussion as that's what I'm doing these days.

Out of interest, what cap would be acceptable. There has to be a cap or people will never bother with cleaning up the fittings they never use and nobody likes having useless data in our DB if we can avoid it.

I was just looking at the stats from TQ after reading this and:
Out of ~310k characters only ~102k have more than 10 fittings saved or a little less than a third of all people using fittings.
Looking at the rest of the gap there are ~58k characters with twenty or more fittings saved, 37k with thirty or more, ~23k with forty and a little less than 8k pilots are already on the limit of fifty.

On the corporation side (Max of 100 fittings) we have a total of ~35k corporations saving their fittings.
~11k of those have more than ten fittings, ~6k with more than twenty, ~4k with more than thirty, ~3K with more than forty and moving to ~1.5K, then ~500, ~250, ~150, ~100 and then finally ~35 with all 100 slots filled.

So seeing as corporations must have fittings for all the different operations they are in as well as probably some baseline skill requirements per operational type and only 35 of those find themselves limited by the current 100 maximum: Would you be happy with that max on characters as well? Without even hinting at a promise of doing anything I can tell you that this change is essentially trivial. However, if you really want to remove personal fittings from the DB and back to the client then you're back in ClientLand. I don't really do ClientLand so I cannot speak to the complexity of that. But I sure don't mind removing your data from the database. I love removing data!

At any rate, just thought I'd pipe in on the discussion as that's what I'm doing these days.

Yeah I'd have thought more people would use the "Save Fitting" feature.

wtf,, you don't need that many fits for incursions, no matter how you roll.

let's say you fly with both shield and armor fleets and can do all rolls

2-4 logi fits
2-4 battleship fits
2-4 command ship fits

what the hell else do you need?

i only fly armor DPS in incursions so i have 1 commandship fit...

Yeah I'd have thought more people would use the "Save Fitting" feature.

Out of interest, what cap would be acceptable. There has to be a cap or people will never bother with cleaning up the fittings they never use and nobody likes having useless data in our DB if we can avoid it.

I was just looking at the stats from TQ after reading this and:
Out of ~310k characters only ~102k have more than 10 fittings saved or a little less than a third of all people using fittings.
Looking at the rest of the gap there are ~58k characters with twenty or more fittings saved, 37k with thirty or more, ~23k with forty and a little less than 8k pilots are already on the limit of fifty.

On the corporation side (Max of 100 fittings) we have a total of ~35k corporations saving their fittings.
~11k of those have more than ten fittings, ~6k with more than twenty, ~4k with more than thirty, ~3K with more than forty and moving to ~1.5K, then ~500, ~250, ~150, ~100 and then finally ~35 with all 100 slots filled.

So seeing as corporations must have fittings for all the different operations they are in as well as probably some baseline skill requirements per operational type and only 35 of those find themselves limited by the current 100 maximum: Would you be happy with that max on characters as well? Without even hinting at a promise of doing anything I can tell you that this change is essentially trivial. However, if you really want to remove personal fittings from the DB and back to the client then you're back in ClientLand. I don't really do ClientLand so I cannot speak to the complexity of that. But I sure don't mind removing your data from the database. I love removing data!

At any rate, just thought I'd pipe in on the discussion as that's what I'm doing these days.

Just a quick update on this as I did promise to look into things:
Due to the restructuring that we've been harping on for the past few weeks I'm having a really hard time getting this approved by production. They're simply swamped with work now and grabbing their attention from their current projects is more difficult than usually.

I'm *very* sorry for this slow response time but I'm still poking at my teams producer and will continue to do so until I can commit to something for you guys.

It would be quite nice to see this raised to 100 or so for personal fittings. 50 just wasn't even close to enough for those that fly several different ships in various configurations.

It'd be nice if the UI gang would make up their mind on how they want to save user preferences though:

- Bookmarks are server-side and laggy as hell if you use them a lot. Poor useability.
- Fittings got laggier when they went server-side, and we got fewer slots to save. 2 big downgrades in useability.
- Overview settings are client-side.
- 99% of the client settings in the ESC menu are client-side.


Why the server-side push? I'd rather see bookmarks go client-side for speed.

So when you switch harddrive/computer the bookmarks follow you...