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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
breaky1
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.12.10 18:19:00 -
[181]
my general policy is to not take legal advice from people named "clevermonkey"
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Empyre
Domestic Reform
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Posted - 2007.12.10 18:27:00 -
[182]
 Originally by: breaky1
my general policy is to not take legal advice from people named "clevermonkey"
that makes you one clever monkey, my friend. oh boy.. that was super-cheesy.
The official goon buzz-kill. |
Lasairiona
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Posted - 2007.12.11 06:09:00 -
[183]
Frankly, there is no justification for this lawsuit. It cannot be proven that CCP intentionally deployed an update that would delete the boot.ini file. People are too quick to panic about things of this nature. The most logical thing to do would have been to wait until CCP responded with a fix, which they did, at no charge. It was a mistake. No court of law would allow this civil suit to go forward. And, to clarify, new regulations have been made to prevent a repeat of the McDonald's coffee incident...move on people, lol, you can't win!
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Franga
Caldari
NQX Innovations
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.11 06:19:00 -
[184]
Originally by: SnakeByte86
Originally by: Kirjava
You mean they just need to have an office in the USA to be held accountable to US law, even though they are icorporated in the Republic of Iceland and have their server in London, EU?
Yeah office here, means they can be held accountable under US law.
For example, their office and US assets could be seized.
I'm so very sure you were quitting.
_____________________________
Eldo spanked my sig but I can't be bothered changing it just now. |
Georg Inekn
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Posted - 2007.12.11 06:44:00 -
[185]
1) It's clear that most of the people who have posted in this thread have little-to-no understanding of either tort, international, US, or class action law.
2) EULA and TOS are not legally binding when the EULA or TOS would violate a law in the end-user's state, country, or municipality. EULA/TOS agreements exist generally to justify a cessation of service provision, but as protection against indemnity they are worthless. Indemnity clauses are generally worthless as a rule, because a person or legal entity cannot indemnify another for anything that is or would be illegal, which includes breach of contract, negligence, and failure to perform/provide service.
2.5) Indemnity clauses are like Santa Clauses: only those who haven't been educated about the reality of the situation believe in their power. In brief, any end-user of a product simply can't be "made to unreasonably indemnify another" for damages caused by "breach of contract or negligence". There are too many American references to cite. Anyone living in the UK might wish to look up the Unfair Contract Terms Act, from which the quoted text is lifted.
3) Bashing someone else's country makes you look like the idiot that you are.
4) If you really want to hurt CCP, simply quit paying to play their games. I don't want your stuff, just quit.
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Doppler Shift
Red 42
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Posted - 2007.12.11 06:57:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Georg Inekn
1) It's clear that most of the people who have posted in this thread have little-to-no understanding of either tort, international, US, or class action law.
2) EULA and TOS are not legally binding when the EULA or TOS would violate a law in the end-user's state, country, or municipality. EULA/TOS agreements exist generally to justify a cessation of service provision, but as protection against indemnity they are worthless. Indemnity clauses are generally worthless as a rule, because a person or legal entity cannot indemnify another for anything that is or would be illegal, which includes breach of contract, negligence, and failure to perform/provide service.
2.5) Indemnity clauses are like Santa Clauses: only those who haven't been educated about the reality of the situation believe in their power. In brief, any end-user of a product simply can't be "made to unreasonably indemnify another" for damages caused by "breach of contract or negligence". There are too many American references to cite. Anyone living in the UK might wish to look up the Unfair Contract Terms Act, from which the quoted text is lifted.
3) Bashing someone else's country makes you look like the idiot that you are.
4) If you really want to hurt CCP, simply quit paying to play their games. I don't want your stuff, just quit.
This.
Although I'll still accept your stuff.
---
This is what's left of my signatu...[siggienerf][/siggienerf] |
Tek'a Rain
Gallente
Isis Technologies
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Posted - 2007.12.11 06:59:00 -
[187]
I have hired an internet laywer to handle this internet case. You will all be involved in the suing when the suing occurs. Keep an eye on your email box for your internet check for the internet damages, after the internet settlement.
internet internet.
internet.
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NocturnalDeath
Umbra Congregatio
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.11 07:09:00 -
[188]
Edited by: NocturnalDeath on 11/12/2007 07:09:17
Originally by: Kirjava
You mean they just need to have an office in the USA to be held accountable to US law, even though they are icorporated in the Republic of Iceland and have their server in London, EU?
They don't even have to have an office in U.S. If they service U.S. customers they can be prosecuted under U.S. law.
U.S. Law has also been very stringent when it comes to EULA cases. Usually finding in favor of the person who clicked the button without reading it.
Recently the Justice Department has taken to arresting Corporate officers of gambling websites and Banks that do business with them. Some have been extradited under anti-terrorism laws, some have been caught entering the U.S. on connecting flights elsewhere.
If CCP was ever to implement any sort of ingame gambling, you can be sure they could never set foot in the USA after that.
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Karlemgne
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.12.11 07:25:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Georg Inekn
1) It's clear that most of the people who have posted in this thread have little-to-no understanding of either tort, international, US, or class action law.
2) EULA and TOS are not legally binding when the EULA or TOS would violate a law in the end-user's state, country, or municipality. EULA/TOS agreements exist generally to justify a cessation of service provision, but as protection against indemnity they are worthless. Indemnity clauses are generally worthless as a rule, because a person or legal entity cannot indemnify another for anything that is or would be illegal, which includes breach of contract, negligence, and failure to perform/provide service.
2.5) Indemnity clauses are like Santa Clauses: only those who haven't been educated about the reality of the situation believe in their power. In brief, any end-user of a product simply can't be "made to unreasonably indemnify another" for damages caused by "breach of contract or negligence". There are too many American references to cite. Anyone living in the UK might wish to look up the Unfair Contract Terms Act, from which the quoted text is lifted.
3) Bashing someone else's country makes you look like the idiot that you are.
4) If you really want to hurt CCP, simply quit paying to play their games. I don't want your stuff, just quit.
You win this thread. Congrats. I no longer need to look at anything else here.
-Karl
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Mr Friendly
That it Should Come to This
Derek Knows Us
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Posted - 2007.12.11 07:34:00 -
[190]
Obviously CCP did not intend for that to happen (duh), and whether CCP is actually liable for any loss is irrelevant to my post. Also, I run Vista, so this problem passed me by.
However, I am disturbed by the number of people in this thread that think it's basically not a big deal that a fundamental piece of the system got deleted by a game patch. 'Fix it and STFU' is a pretty strange reaction to a software program breaking a computer system worth quite a bit of RL money.
Think about that for a moment. Some of you are claiming it's okay to have someone else's game break your computer. Your stuff got broken by someone else and it's okay? Is breaking other peoples things okay just because you were let in to someone's house and you warned them you were very clumsy before you came in? If so, can I come to your house and get drunk?
A friend brought his kid over to my house and the child promptly and without warning destroyed a 250$ tweeter on one of my speakers. He didn't mean to (he thought it was a button), but damned straight the parent paid for a replacement. If he hadn't he would no longer be someone I spoke to and I might have taken a poke at him depending on how poor or sorry he was for how his child had acted. His feet certainly would not have touched the ground on his way out the door.
Unintended actions still can have consequences and blithely absolving a company of wrongdoing merely because they didn't *mean* to do it encourages further sloppy behaviour.
CCP has hopefully learned better, but something like this should never have happened. "Opps" is not an adequate response to 'non-bootable disc' errors.
Save EveTV, please.
Sign to ask CCP to fund EveTV! |
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Karlemgne
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.12.11 07:37:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Mr Friendly
CCP has hopefully learned better, but something like this should never have happened. "Opps" is not an adequate response to 'non-bootable disc' errors.
This is good. The other guy still wins the thread.
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DahMainMan
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Posted - 2007.12.11 07:40:00 -
[192]
So let me get this, if you had vista or sp2, you would be ok if yer boot.ini was deleted?
if this is the case, then the ones that had there boot.ini deleted proly didnt have a legit windows. im betting that good ol winxp pro that everyone got back in the day for free. If so, this system has bugs in it, that is one of the bugs.(if boot.ini is not there it wont boot*fixed in sp1-sp2*) is in effect your own fault for runnin and copy that was not lagit, there for no sp2 for you. and or you just lack the sp2 update. then again its yer own fault as windows update trys to cram it down yer neck every 5 mins. so all in all, stfu up buy windows. or update to sp2.
Lamers.
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NTRabbit
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Enelaise
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Posted - 2007.12.11 07:42:00 -
[193]
Where is the Great Space Lawyer when you need him?
* Sends out a distress call to Viceroy, Space Attorney-at-Law
------
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Karlemgne
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.12.11 07:46:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Lasairiona
Frankly, there is no justification for this lawsuit. It cannot be proven that CCP intentionally deployed an update that would delete the boot.ini file. People are too quick to panic about things of this nature. The most logical thing to do would have been to wait until CCP responded with a fix, which they did, at no charge. It was a mistake. No court of law would allow this civil suit to go forward. And, to clarify, new regulations have been made to prevent a repeat of the McDonald's coffee incident...move on people, lol, you can't win!
Frankly, you don't have to intend anything to be legally accountable for damages to person or property.
The person who smashed into my car a couple years back and put me in the hospital for two days didn't intend to do it. His insurance company damn sure cut me a check.
Similarly criminal responsibility doesn't require intent. If I'm speeding and accident ally run a red light thereby killing someone on accident I could still be charged with vehicular manslaughter.
In fact, now that we're talking about, guess who accidentally sent a power surge through my in-laws neighborhood and paid for all new appliances in their house? The local power company.
BTW the other guy wins the thread.
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Karlemgne
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.12.11 07:48:00 -
[195]
Originally by: DahMainMan
So let me get this, if you had vista or sp2, you would be ok if yer boot.ini was deleted?
if this is the case, then the ones that had there boot.ini deleted proly didnt have a legit windows. im betting that good ol winxp pro that everyone got back in the day for free. If so, this system has bugs in it, that is one of the bugs.(if boot.ini is not there it wont boot*fixed in sp1-sp2*) is in effect your own fault for runnin and copy that was not lagit, there for no sp2 for you. and or you just lack the sp2 update. then again its yer own fault as windows update trys to cram it down yer neck every 5 mins. so all in all, stfu up buy windows. or update to sp2.
Lamers.
Dude, if that guy was really wearing a seatbelt he wouldn't have been ejected from his car when that guy ran the red light and hit him.
Lamer. Wear a seatbelt next time.
-Karl
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Dred'Pirate Jesus
Amarr
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.12.11 07:56:00 -
[196]
Well after wading through the majority of this thread I'm still unsure as to what damages were incurred to justify a class action suit? As far as I can tell a file that is easily replacable was deleted due to an oversite by the patch developer.. But what was really lost to be able to put a $ figure on it?
Originally by: David Hackworth
ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
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Clevermonkey
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Posted - 2007.12.11 08:29:00 -
[197]
Edited by: Clevermonkey on 11/12/2007 08:33:38
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/151/379327525_6d75a1bfa7.jpg
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Valan
The Fated
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.11 08:36:00 -
[198]
OK if people they have a case put your money where your mouth is and get on with it the rest of us are bored with posturing. Let us know how it goes.
/start sig
I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on.
/end sig |
Angela Toren
Amarr
Toren Shipyards
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Posted - 2007.12.11 08:48:00 -
[199]
Edited by: Angela Toren on 11/12/2007 08:49:57
Read the EULA, you agree to the EUlA to play, you accept the risk that the game can break your comp.
The maximum you can get off CCP if you win is the monetary value of one months sub.
I don't understand what all the who-hah is about?
I do hope that anyone that tries to sue CCP gets banned from all ccp games for the rest of eternity
_____________
Originally by: SheriffFruitfly
For ambulation patch, they're gonna slip "format c:\" into the install script.
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Hectaire Glade
Forum Jockey
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Posted - 2007.12.11 08:58:00 -
[200]
If the issue had occurred in the forced download, then potentially some argument could be made that the upgrade was not optional as it was mandatory to continue using the service for which we have paid and CCP has contracted to provide.
However, and fortunately for CCP, the error was caused by the optional patch to premium content, which was provided 'as is' and so is defensible under the principle that CCP provides no warranty for use, and said installation is not necessary to access the service for which CCP is provisioning.
In summary, this will get laughed out of court, should anyone be idiotic enough to incur the legal costs of attempting such litigation.
It could, however, successfully be argued that CCP should refund the cost of the subscription for the period for which people were unable to access the game due to the issue caused by the optional patch, this is a cost of service discussion and in no way related to damages.
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Mr Fuggle
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Posted - 2007.12.11 09:07:00 -
[201]
A quick lol at the thread.
Glad to see I'm not the only lawyer playing the game with though this being posted (again for truth):
Originally by: Georg Inekn
1) It's clear that most of the people who have posted in this thread have little-to-no understanding of either tort, international, US, or class action law.
2) EULA and TOS are not legally binding when the EULA or TOS would violate a law in the end-user's state, country, or municipality. EULA/TOS agreements exist generally to justify a cessation of service provision, but as protection against indemnity they are worthless. Indemnity clauses are generally worthless as a rule, because a person or legal entity cannot indemnify another for anything that is or would be illegal, which includes breach of contract, negligence, and failure to perform/provide service.
2.5) Indemnity clauses are like Santa Clauses: only those who haven't been educated about the reality of the situation believe in their power. In brief, any end-user of a product simply can't be "made to unreasonably indemnify another" for damages caused by "breach of contract or negligence". There are too many American references to cite. Anyone living in the UK might wish to look up the Unfair Contract Terms Act, from which the quoted text is lifted.
3) Bashing someone else's country makes you look like the idiot that you are.
4) If you really want to hurt CCP, simply quit paying to play their games. I don't want your stuff, just quit.
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SumDum
AirHawk Alliance
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.12.11 09:16:00 -
[202]
Is this the "Boost Amarr" thread or the "I broke my work computer by installing a game on it" thread? I actually think the lack of attention to Amarr is more legally actionable than all the people who "broke" their computers by installing a game on it. Get a life.
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SumDum
AirHawk Alliance
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.12.11 09:19:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Tek'a Rain
I have hired an internet laywer to handle this internet case. You will all be involved in the suing when the suing occurs. Keep an eye on your email box for your internet check for the internet damages, after the internet settlement.
internet internet.
internet.
lol, i missed this little gem. you forgot to post in all caps though!
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
mUfFiN fAcToRy
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Posted - 2007.12.11 09:26:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Empyre
[(think the game of telephone)
[/quote
Wink at the cellophane? 
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
thats a boot.ini a file used by windows
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Elis Verone
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.12.11 09:31:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Bobarian
I'd be thrilled if CCP just sent me a recovery cd so i dont have to wait for dell to ship them to me. I dont want any lawsuits or even be compensated with game time (canceled subscription from work comp) I just want my damn computer to work as it did before this.
*Note to self* When you get a new computer without OS CD's - create them 
ye happend to me too... however i called microsoft complaining about there deal with HP... same ****.. make bootdisk blah blah.... i told em that i downloaded a pirat version as HP would take 3 weeks before i would have it.. 2 days after microsoft gave me a windows cd.. i ofc had to give em my reg number and that. but they sure were faster than HP.. the fact that computers are sold without a disk today is ********... it shouldent be ligal.
i should add i DID make a boot cd when i had the computer but it did NOT work, so i was angry... however if enough complaints to MS about this isue maybe they will altier the lame idea about selling computers without a cd.. should i add that the secund u make a bootable cd from your computer like this it looks like a pirated version LOL microsoft LOVES there fancy cd`s so i dont get why they even alowed it in the first place...
sue microsoft ?
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Galack Fyar
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Posted - 2007.12.11 09:37:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Conjure
comon guys, stuff happens and life goes on. Just drop it already with the "threats" of suing CCP.
/signed |
DvlDwg
Gallente
Metal Marines
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Posted - 2007.12.11 09:43:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Clevermonkey
Originally by: Grimm Myn
Originally by: Clevermonkey
Originally by: Crumplecorn
This one time, at band camp, the power went out, and I tried to walk downstairs in the dark, and fell and broke my arm, and sued the power company for compensation.
You are also a moron. this is not about accidental falling. It is about deliberate deletion of a file that does not or has been licensed by CCP which would be the BOOT.INI file. By law they are not allowed to modify it without a license from Microsoft.
Calling people names or insulting them wont get you anywhere, gotta love the manners for a 18+ game.
Do you REALLY think CCP wanted to delete everyones C:\BOOT.INI on purpose? heh, aight. "Worlds first Game with imbedded virus!"
Seriously, this was not a deliberate action by CCP, it was a malfunction of the programmed code as it wasnt thoroughly tested with all the possible client setups out there (considering it only affected a percentage of the gamers, therefore this scenario wasnt tested).
You cant prove they did this on purpose, who would think such a thing anyway?
It is easy for you to sit there like THE VEIN, SELF CENTERED, A**HOLE YOU ARE because you were not effected by this. There are some really angry people out there. I suspect if you were really effected by this calamity you would be talking a different game. I can tell because you only like to hear yourself talk and you don't listen because you are a F***ING M***N. So F***Y** and the horse you rode in on.
Somebody needs a nap?
There is no hunting like the hunting of man.. |
Kyra Felann
Gallente
Red Eye .Inc.
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Posted - 2007.12.11 10:18:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Clevermonkey
Again. You know little about the law. You are a moron. People lost everything. Everything. If one person had to reformat their drive then CCP is ACTIONABLE. however, it is AGAIN useless as I posted originally. the law is in their favor.
No one lost anything due to CCP's actions. If they lost data or reformatted their drives, it was due to their own stupidity. I can think of several better ways to deal with a mission system-critical file than reformatting.
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Kharadran Sullath
Caldari
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.12.11 10:41:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Kyra Felann
Originally by: Clevermonkey
Again. You know little about the law. You are a moron. People lost everything. Everything. If one person had to reformat their drive then CCP is ACTIONABLE. however, it is AGAIN useless as I posted originally. the law is in their favor.
No one lost anything due to CCP's actions. If they lost data or reformatted their drives, it was due to their own stupidity. I can think of several better ways to deal with a mission system-critical file than reformatting.
Quoted for absolute truth.
------
Originally by: Graveyard Tan
I call bull**** and troll. If you are deaf, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
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Nick Curso
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.12.11 11:12:00 -
[210]
Edited by: Nick Curso on 11/12/2007 11:15:11
OK!! Who let the e-lawyers out of the cubord again!!!
Microsoft back in the day made me format my HD lots of time CA I SUE THEM AND BE A GAZILLIONNAIRE! cause tbh if i hadnt lost that data i alrdy would be so therefore i deserve to be compensated.
ALSO i broke my had on my landlords wall because i missed my friend when i tryed to punh him :p lol can I sue him OR my friend? My friend for not getting in the way thus me not hitting the wall and therefore not breaking my hand? OR! can i sue my landlord for not putting patting on the wall so it didnt hut or at the very least a sign saying it was hard!!!
I should be rich god damn it.
to quote Billy conelly "It's time to trim the herd, I saw a sign on a hiardryer in a hotel the other day that said do not use in the shower! suerly if ure stupid enough use it in the shower u deserve to be electrocuted and die for the benifit of mandkind!"
Or something like that its early :(
anyway e-lawyers get on my case!
Tbh i all think its revenge from CCP zulpak(sp)because we weere mean to him about carriers.
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