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How to save the Apoc ( idea)

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Aieda Amarr x-core-gaming	Posted - 2008.01.02 18:00:00 - [1] As everyone will propably agree the Apoc is right now in severe need of some love. In my Opinion the ship needs a complete change in its role ( atm it really doesn¦t have one ), so why not change it into a Drone Carrier! Proposed Apoc: Bonusses: 5% bonus to Capacitor capacity / level (unchanged) 10% bonus to Drone Damage and hitpoints - Reduce Turret Hardpoints to 4 - Increase Launcher Hardpoints to 4 - Reduce Powergrid by ~1000 (roughly ... exact change would need to be balanced) - Increase CPU by ~ 75 (same as PG ) - increase Drone bay to 375 m¦ Slot Layout: no change So what would this accomplish ? The Ship would be very good at utilizing Energy Neuts (with the Cap Bonus)and with the 7 lows a very good armor tank, but would do less damage than let¦s say a Blaster Dominix no matter how you fit it. The additional Launcher Hardpoints would provide more flexibility in pve. The Neutralizing Drone ship is also very much in line with the Sentinel, Arbitrator and Curse line of Amarr ships.
Xequecal	Posted - 2008.01.02 18:12:00 - [2] That's pretty goddamn broken. It's 900 DPS from just drones + siege launchers with 2 BCS, and that's 100% capless so you can easily shove 4 neuts on there and run them off an injector. Or you can add 4x whatever gun you want and do even higher DPS, while running a big tank at the same time because you're not using any cap. IMHO, a better setup is the same low/mid/dronebay layout as now, 6 high, 4 turret, 2 launchers, 20% bonus to large energy turret damage and 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per level.
memphistopheles interimo	Posted - 2008.01.02 18:14:00 - [3] No
Aieda Amarr x-core-gaming	Posted - 2008.01.02 18:18:00 - [4] That¦s exactly the same drone dps as the Dominix ( 125 Mbit bandwidth of course )
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.02 18:20:00 - [5] The easiest way to give apoc a role is buff his fittings. So it can fit Tacnyons more or less easily. Then it would be a good fleet ship (taht can fire far longer than abaddon Would even risk to say Downgrade droneband to 25m TTO be sure it sucks close range. Then give enough PG and CPU to fit 8 Tachyons without any fittign mods. Done a specific role well covered. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Rialtor Amarr Yarrrateers Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.02 18:26:00 - [6] Edited by: Rialtor on 02/01/2008 18:38:16 Originally by: Kagura Nikon The easiest way to give apoc a role is buff his fittings. So it can fit Tacnyons more or less easily. Then it would be a good fleet ship (taht can fire far longer than abaddon Would even risk to say Downgrade droneband to 25m TTO be sure it sucks close range. Then give enough PG and CPU to fit 8 Tachyons without any fittign mods. Done a specific role well covered. It's faulty to have 3 gunships at the BS level. I mean how diverse can gunships be, it needs a newer role than just fleet sniper. The abaddon and geddon are already capable at fleet. No one (as far as I know) is complaining about Amarrian fleet capability anyway. Change it's role to another Amarrian Playstyle (arbitrator/curse/pilgrim or Sacrilege/Khanidish) I'd be happy if they take away the laser cap bonus and give it a nos/neut range bonus. ---- sig ---- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Daqinson The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.02 18:31:00 - [7] use the apoc as a fleet setup. Fit 8 500w infectious and watch your enemies cower as their cap goes from full to dead empty in a matter of seconds. perfect for any small gang or fleet
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising	Posted - 2008.01.03 05:16:00 - [8] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 03/01/2008 05:16:04 Originally by: Xequecal That's pretty goddamn broken. It's 900 DPS from just drones + siege launchers with 2 BCS, and that's 100% capless so you can easily shove 4 neuts on there and run them off an injector. Or you can add 4x whatever gun you want and do even higher DPS, while running a big tank at the same time because you're not using any cap. IMHO, a better setup is the same low/mid/dronebay layout as now, 6 high, 4 turret, 2 launchers, 20% bonus to large energy turret damage and 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per level. So you do understand how broken our ships are now. You give a broken amarr ship useful bonuses and bam its overpowered. Makes you think, doesnt it. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.03 08:03:00 - [9] Replace cap bonus with optimal range bonus. Bam, instantly useful, and not overpowered.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.03 08:04:00 - [10] Originally by: Daqinson use the apoc as a fleet setup. Fit 8 500w infectious and watch your enemies cower as their cap goes from full to dead empty in a matter of seconds. perfect for any small gang or fleet Except an abaddon is better at this, and any other BS can do this as well. Neut boat is not a role, not unless the apoc gets a neut bonus.

Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.03 08:14:00 - [11] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer So you do understand how broken our ships are now. You give a broken amarr ship useful bonuses and bam its overpowered. Makes you think, doesnt it. Um, no, it doesn't "make you think". The only thing that "makes you think" about it is that someone suggested such an abomination to start with. A full slot layout as a drone boat? Hell even the Dominix only has 6 highs and is powergrid gimped to hell and back. I'd be a fan of a 6/6/6 battleship sized Arbitrator though. ;-) *Special Abilities: 10% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness and range per skill level and 10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage per level, and mining yield per level* -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Raekone	Posted - 2008.01.03 09:20:00 - [12] Originally by: Gamesguy Neut boat is not a role, not unless the apoc gets a neut bonus. Cap bonus = neut bonus tbh, only much better since you can use it for other things too.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.03 09:36:00 - [13] Originally by: Raekone Originally by: Gamesguy Neut boat is not a role, not unless the apoc gets a neut bonus. Cap bonus = neut bonus tbh, only much better since you can use it for other things too. Which is bull**** because all neut boats rely on cap boosters, and the measly 20% or whatever cap difference between an apoc and a tier 3 BS means the apoc uses 1 less 800 charge, its basically a 32 m3 cargo space bonus. Might as well be +8m3 cargo space per level, thats about how useful it is on a neut boat.
Raekone	Posted - 2008.01.03 09:41:00 - [14] Edited by: Raekone on 03/01/2008 09:41:27 Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Raekone Originally by: Gamesguy Neut boat is not a role, not unless the apoc gets a neut bonus. Cap bonus = neut bonus tbh, only much better since you can use it for other things too. Which is bull**** because all neut boats rely on cap boosters, and the measly 20% or whatever cap difference between an apoc and a tier 3 BS means the apoc uses 1 less 800 charge, its basically a 32 m3 cargo space bonus. Might as well be +8m3 cargo space per level, thats about how useful it is on a neut boat. Well yes, if you must get all analytical about things
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.03 10:45:00 - [15] Originally by: Rialtor Edited by: Rialtor on 02/01/2008 18:38:16 Originally by: Kagura Nikon The easiest way to give apoc a role is buff his fittings. So it can fit Tacnyons more or less easily. Then it would be a good fleet ship (taht can fire far longer than abaddon Would even risk to say Downgrade droneband to 25m TTO be sure it sucks close range. Then give enough PG and CPU to fit 8 Tachyons without any fittign mods. Done a specific role well covered. It's faulty to have 3 gunships at the BS level. I mean how diverse can gunships be, it needs a newer role than just fleet sniper. The abaddon and geddon are already capable at fleet. No one (as far as I know) is complaining about Amarrian fleet capability anyway. Change it's role to another Amarrian Playstyle (arbitrator/curse/pilgrim or Sacrilege/Khanidish) I'd be happy if they take away the laser cap bonus and give it a nos/neut range bonus. NO. Ammar BS SUCK at fleet warfare. Try to fit a full tachyon rack AN D MWD AND DD tank on an Ammar BS (no Mega Beams are NTO enough, not enough range). They are simply not able to do it without using PG rigs, somethign the rokh, Mega, Hyperion Tempest and maesltrom are able. Ammar need 1 BS capable of fitting MWD full tachyons and a DD tank. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Aieda Amarr x-core-gaming	Posted - 2008.01.03 11:12:00 - [16] Originally by: Gamesguy Neut boat is not a role, not unless the apoc gets a neut bonus. Well giving a straight out neut bonus to a ship that can fit several heavy neuts seemed overpowered to me so i didn¦t go that route, it¦s true however the cap bonus is somewhat weak. Originally by: Liang Nuren A full slot layout as a drone boat? Hell even the Dominix only has 6 highs and is powergrid gimped to hell and back. A Full Slot layout... yes but without any bonus to any weapon type and split weapon systems ( Launcher / turret), so the weapon damage output would not be much greater than the gun damage of the Dominix, and i did say that PG and CPU would need to be balanced
Teani Gallente The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.03 11:14:00 - [17] Edited by: Teani on 03/01/2008 11:14:29 You cant fit 425mm s mwd and a DD tank and a mega or 1400mm tempest without fitting mods or grid rigs AFAIK so dont moan
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services The Acquisition	Posted - 2008.01.03 11:20:00 - [18] 4:6:6 with 10% drone damage and 5% TD effectiveness a level would make me cry with joy.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.03 11:48:00 - [19] Originally by: Teani Edited by: Teani on 03/01/2008 11:14:29 You cant fit 425mm s mwd and a DD tank and a mega or 1400mm tempest without fitting mods or grid rigs AFAIK so dont moan Yes you CAN! MEga 7x 425mmII 100MN MWD 2 SB II 2 Track Enhancer II 1 I Force Field 1600 RT 1 N-Type hardener for the DD you want to tank EASILY with lots of spare fittings! 2 MAg Stab II If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Vathar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.03 12:02:00 - [20] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Try to fit a full tachyon rack AN D MWD AND DD tank on an Ammar BS (no Mega Beams are NTO enough, not enough range). Implying that other tier2 Battleships can do it is nuts. As a tempest pilot, I can tell you that you can't fit a rack of 1400mm, mwd and "DD tank" on a tempest without rigs (I'm not even sure that you can fit that with rigs) the so called "DD tank" gimps a setup beyond reason, and is worthless as soon as anyone can field different titan types (yup, that includes the enemies we happen to be facing AND the titans we can field) so I don't even bother with that. Plus there have been a few occurences of dual DD, and I'm not sure any fleet BS can withstand this!! Originally by: Radeberger If you plan to make your alliance combat based, recruit pvpers with mining alts rather than miners with pvp alts[/qu

TimMc Gallente Vidar Fierd Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.03 12:04:00 - [21] My Amarr alt likes this thread. /signed.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2008.01.03 12:13:00 - [22] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer So you do understand how broken our ships are now. You give a broken amarr ship useful bonuses and bam its overpowered. Makes you think, doesnt it. Um, no, it doesn't "make you think". The only thing that "makes you think" about it is that someone suggested such an abomination to start with. A full slot layout as a drone boat? Hell even the Dominix only has 6 highs and is powergrid gimped to hell and back. I'd be a fan of a 6/6/6 battleship sized Arbitrator though. ;-) *Special Abilities: 10% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness and range per skill level and 10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage per level, and mining yield per level* -Liang A mining yield bonus, OMFG nerf! Even the all mighty domi doesnt have one. To the nerrrrrfmobile! _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
kessah Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.01.03 12:40:00 - [23] The Apoc just needs this imho: CPU increase Grid increase larger drone bay (175m3 like the typhoon) A naturally high cap capacitor it has with the bonus. 10% Laser opt range (or) 7.5% Tracking. 10% Laser cap use. Its not a massive boost but it make the thing a beauty with Pulse lasers.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.03 12:58:00 - [24] Originally by: Vathar Originally by: Kagura Nikon Try to fit a full tachyon rack AN D MWD AND DD tank on an Ammar BS (no Mega Beams are NTO enough, not enough range). Implying that other tier2 Battleships can do it is nuts. As a tempest pilot, I can tell you that you can't fit a rack of 1400mm, mwd and "DD tank" on a tempest without rigs (I'm not even sure that you can fit that with rigs) the so called "DD tank" gimps a setup beyond reason, and is worthless as soon as anyone can field different titan types (yup, that includes the enemies we happen to be facing AND the titans we can field) so I don't even bother with that. Plus there have been a few occurences of dual DD, and I'm not sure any fleet BS can withstand this!! tempest 1 5% PG implant 1 PDS 2 Gyro II 2 Track Enhancer 1 DC II 1 Track Comp 1 MWD I 2 SB II 1 T2 hardener 6x1400mm II Can tank any DD by selectign the hardeners excet a level 5 Erebus pilot Next myth please? Both tempest and mega can do it. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Ash'el Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.01.03 13:12:00 - [25] Amarr does need a good fleet ship and IMO the Apoc is screaming out to fulfil this role, but it needs: CPU and PG increase or tachs get a fitting decrease, Optimal Bonus Capacitor Capacity Bonus And if they reduce lasers using so much cap then that will also be a nice lil bonus to the apoc for fleet engagements.
UGLYUGLY	Posted - 2008.01.03 13:19:00 - [26] Edited by: UGLYUGLY on 03/01/2008 13:19:30 If you want to turn it into a specific neut boat then it would be nice to change the bonuses up a bit. Change the 10% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor into 10% reduction in neut capacitor use. or maybe 10-20% increase in range, but personally I like the cap reduction bonuse more. Drop one or two turrets for a missil hard point, keep the drones as they are. Would be a very nice boat to have in small gangs/solo work.
Gawain Hill	Posted - 2008.01.03 14:04:00 - [27] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Vathar Originally by: Kagura Nikon Try to fit a full tachyon rack AN D MWD AND DD tank on an Ammar BS (no Mega Beams are NTO enough, not enough range). Implying that other tier2 Battleships can do it is nuts. As a tempest pilot, I can tell you that you can't fit a rack of 1400mm, mwd and "DD tank" on a tempest without rigs (I'm not even sure that you can fit that with rigs) the so called "DD tank" gimps a setup beyond reason, and is worthless as soon as anyone can field different titan types (yup, that includes the enemies we happen to be facing AND the titans we can field) so I don't even bother with that. Plus there have been a few occurences of dual DD, and I'm not sure any fleet BS can withstand this!! tempest 1 5% PG implant 1 PDS 2 Gyro II 2 Track Enhancer 1 DC II 1 Track Comp 1 MWD I 2 SB II 1 T2 hardener 6x1400mm II Can tank any DD by selectign the hardeners excet a level 5 Erebus pilot Next myth please? Both tempest and mega can do it. no no no you missed the statement it was [Quote]Plus there have been a few occurences of dual DD, and I'm not sure any fleet BS can withstand this!! as in a Minmatar Titan AND a Galente Titan (i know i spelt the last race wrong but i don't like them all that much anyway so i don't really mind how it's spelt)
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.01.03 14:06:00 - [28] Originally by: Aieda Proposed Apoc: Bonusses: 5% bonus to Capacitor capacity / level (unchanged) 10% bonus to Drone Damage and hitpoints - Reduce Turret Hardpoints to 4 - Increase Launcher Hardpoints to 4 - Reduce Powergrid by ~1000 (roughly ... exact change would need to be balanced) - Increase CPU by ~ 75 (same as PG ) - increase Drone bay to 375 m¦ Slot Layout: no change Uh..well... Have you looked at the Domis stats at all? You mention it, but I still doubt you have. You are seriously proposing an Amarr Domi with double the grid, +2 highs (with missile slots no less) while only loosing 1 med and 25 cpu? And you don't think it's slightly overpowered? You know, with DOUBLE THE /%&ñ&%ñ grid! jebbus crikey is all I can say. Hello Amarr BS 5, as soon as this thing is released. Okay, okay. I'm calm now. Proposing double grid, AND superior slots was just too much for my composure.
Mrski Okupator Amarr The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.01.03 14:44:00 - [29] lol, no need to get all symbolly. A role change, yes. Abaddon and geddon are excellent gunboats. Only thing I'd rather fly in a fleet is a rokh. And it's a tier 2 bs, so why shouldn't it be better then a domi? But since we all know it's just not gonna happen; 7/5/7 layout. 6 launchers, 0 turrets. 250m3 dronebay, 125mBit 20% tracking disruptor range & effectiveness (or the current cap bonus) 10% drone dmg and hp. Now that's a ship I'd train missiles for. ___ Apocalypse Mining. Mine your way to heaven. What playing Amarr feels like. Shamelessly snatched from Almarez.
Mrski Okupator Amarr The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.01.03 14:51:00 - [30] Originally by: Kagura Nikon tempest 1 5% PG implant 1 PDS 2 Gyro II 2 Track Enhancer 1 DC II 1 Track Comp 1 MWD I 2 SB II 1 T2 hardener 6x1400mm II Can tank any DD by selectign the hardeners excet a level 5 Erebus pilot Next myth please? Both tempest and mega can do it. ROFL @ selecting hardeners. When exactly are you gonna do that? And can tank all 3 titans! You disprove your own point. And I didn't even mention the implant. ___ Apocalypse Mining. Mine your way to heaven. What playing Amarr feels like. Shamelessly snatched from Almarez.



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