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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor The Seventh Day
103
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 18:13:00 -
[301] - Quote
Elise DarkStar wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Scientific methods, employed in a way that is intelligent and comprehensive always yield better results then the flawed Human element. CCP needs to take the bull by the horns and gather real game data and real player opinions ROFL I guess I missed that world-changing revolution, though I haven't read the news since Sunday...
You have no idea how much of a pet you are  You are just paying attention to the wrong science.
The Pure Religion ... and I bet you won't watch the whole thing, because you are a sheep. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Rer Eirikr
Clearly Compensating The Dark Triad
20
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Posted - 2011.10.25 18:15:00 -
[302] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:No again, and here is why.
Demographics are gathered everywhere and they work. Scientific methods, employed in a way that is intelligent and comprehensive always yield better results then the flawed Human element. CCP needs to take the bull by the horns and gather real game data and real player opinions and then act upon them, all on their own. A CSM is a shortcut to this goal, and it has not been working since it's inception. Even if the CSM says "CCP ignores us" which they do often enough... it is still not working.
You are also forgetting that Himlar himself complained about the CSM's null sec bias. You are acting like it is coming from me and me alone.
Let's get real, Himlar is complaining because this CSM knocked CCP's teeth in over Incarna. They got the general gaming press caught up in a firestorm of Riots and made CCP look bad, forcing a change for the better. This whole "Oh woe is me they're pushing too much work into NullSec" is laughable at best.
As for CCP's gathering player data, given how hard it is for them to just iterate on the few issues brought up by the CSM, and the fact that they just laid off a large chunk of their Community team, again, I just don't see it realistically working.
On paper it sounds good, but that doesn't equate to execution.
And seriously could you cut it with the insults? Its not helping the argument. |

Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
19
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 18:15:00 -
[303] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Some people like to just run their damn missions.
Yes, and the smart ones realise that their missions do not exist in a bubble. The ammo they are firing is produced by someone. The faction or officer mods they equip are ratted by someone. The loot they sell is bought by someone. And the price of the LP rewards they cash out is kept high by the fact that sometimes ships (even in highsec) explode.
The ones who don't get it well... I don't know about you but I'd rather not have them dictating the future of the game. |

Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
448
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 18:19:00 -
[304] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:You are also forgetting that Himlar himself complained about the CSM's null sec bias No he didn't. The actual quote was about him hearing from some players that they were concerned about the CSM having a null sec bias. He didn't say he agreed with them.
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Elise DarkStar
DarkCorp Capital Group DarkCorp Imperium
99
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 18:21:00 -
[305] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:You have no idea how much of a pet you are  You are just paying attention to the wrong science.
So you make an absolutely false and outrageous claim about the scientific gathering, amalgamation, and actioning of collective human opinion, and then defend that claim with a youtube link?
Well that's the end of your little farcical crusade. |

Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
19
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 18:37:00 -
[306] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:You have no idea how much of a pet you are  You are just paying attention to the wrong science. The Pure Religion ... and I bet you won't watch the whole thing, because you are a sheep. So to refute his points, you point to a 3 hour 54 minute long video based on siegmund freud's theories? The guy that saw everything as something sexual?
It's almost like we're not talking about some players representing the players in a game. |

Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
19
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 18:44:00 -
[307] - Quote
I mean, I love to hear all about how cigarettes is like a *****, and how it'll make women smoke so they, too, can have their own penises, but I'm not sure how this relates to the CSM and how hisec feels nullsec is waging a class war against them. |

Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
19
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Posted - 2011.10.25 18:52:00 -
[308] - Quote
Oh god. And now they're talking about how cars are a symbol of male sexuality. |

Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
19
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Posted - 2011.10.25 19:43:00 -
[309] - Quote
And now they're talking about how they're trying to stop some guy from becoming a homosexual.
My god, this is useful stuff! |

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor The Seventh Day
103
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Posted - 2011.10.25 20:20:00 -
[310] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:And now they're talking about how they're trying to stop some guy from becoming a homosexual.
My god, this is useful stuff!
You are somehow harping an all the useless stuff and missing the part about controls on a free market democracy do to general human irrationality.. You people have some kind of brain damage. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor The Seventh Day
103
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 20:21:00 -
[311] - Quote
Elise DarkStar wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:You have no idea how much of a pet you are  You are just paying attention to the wrong science. So you make an absolutely false and outrageous claim about the scientific gathering, amalgamation, and actioning of collective human opinion, and then defend that claim with a youtube link? Well that's the end of your little farcical crusade.
Hey look someone is giving his opinion without statistics or demographics to support said opinion. Winning!
Underlined text for good measure to. 
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor The Seventh Day
103
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 20:22:00 -
[312] - Quote
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:You are also forgetting that Himlar himself complained about the CSM's null sec bias No he didn't. The actual quote was about him hearing from some players that they were concerned about the CSM having a null sec bias. He didn't say he agreed with them.
You are right. He said "we will keep them until the end of the year" suggesting.... take a guess 
So he put some stock in the opinion of the people who were saying so, or it would not have been worth mentioning. I am on a roll here \0/ 0// \\0 WEEEEE!!! Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
23
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 20:23:00 -
[313] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:You are somehow harping an all the useless stuff and missing the part about controls on a free market democracy do to general human irrationality.. You people have some kind of brain damage. So, pray tell, how does all this tie in to EVE then? |

Elise DarkStar
DarkCorp Capital Group DarkCorp Imperium
99
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 20:25:00 -
[314] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Hey look someone is giving his opinion without statistics or demographics to support said opinion.
How is this in any way a valid response to your inability to defend your outrageous claims?
You've spilled substantial ink here, but you can't even put forward the simplest attempt at defending the foundational claim upon which all your nattering rests?
Must be pretty embarrassing to go through all this trouble only to have it all overthrown by one simple question. |

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor The Seventh Day
103
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 20:26:00 -
[315] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:You are somehow harping an all the useless stuff and missing the part about controls on a free market democracy do to general human irrationality.. You people have some kind of brain damage. So, pray tell, how does all this tie in to EVE then?
It does not at all, it is only in reference to Elise DarkStar's comment in post 300. Everyone else assumed it was related to this discussion.
& he did not watch the whole thing, he just underlined text instead. Kudos to you for watching some  Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
456
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 20:26:00 -
[316] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Skunk Gracklaw wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:You are also forgetting that Himlar himself complained about the CSM's null sec bias No he didn't. The actual quote was about him hearing from some players that they were concerned about the CSM having a null sec bias. He didn't say he agreed with them. You are right. He said "we will keep them until the end of the year" suggesting.... take a guess  So he put some stock in the opinion of the people who were saying so, or it would not have been worth mentioning. I am on a roll here \0/ 0// \\0 WEEEEE!!! You keep believing that. When reality hits you it will be even more fun for me.
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Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor The Seventh Day
103
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 20:33:00 -
[317] - Quote
Elise DarkStar wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Hey look someone is giving his opinion without statistics or demographics to support said opinion. Must be pretty embarrassing to go through all this trouble only to have it all overthrown by one simple question.
Not really, I like putting self-proclaiming debate team champions such as yourself into a heated fluster.
Why don't you get back to me when YOU can prove how statistical gathering and demographics do not perform their intended role. See I even underlined that word for you 
@Skunk Gracklaw
I like the part where you didn't not infer anything from "keep until the end of the year" after they fired 20% of their real-life labor force. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Elise DarkStar
DarkCorp Capital Group DarkCorp Imperium
99
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 20:38:00 -
[318] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Not really I like putting self-proclaiming debate team champions such as yourself into a heated fluster.
Why don't you get back to me when YOU can prove how statistical gathering and demographics do not perform their intended role. See I even underlined that word for you [;)
I'm not upset in the slightest.
You've made the claims and you're making substantial suggestions about how people should act based on the validity of those claims. The burden is entirely on you to offer even an ounce of support for your claims.
I'm quite satisfied that anyone who can follow a line of conversation can now see that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, thereby making all your previous and following keyboard hammering completely worthless.
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Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor The Seventh Day
103
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 20:41:00 -
[319] - Quote
Elise DarkStar wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Not really I like putting self-proclaiming debate team champions such as yourself into a heated fluster.
Why don't you get back to me when YOU can prove how statistical gathering and demographics do not perform their intended role. See I even underlined that word for you [;) I'm not upset in the slightest. You've made the claims and you're making substantial suggestions about how people should act based on the validity of those claims. The burden is entirely on you to offer even an ounce of support for your claims. I'm quite satisfied that anyone who can follow a line of conversation can now see that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, thereby making all your previous and following keyboard hammering completely worthless.
Oh snap he used the good old "The burden is entirely on you to offer even an ounce of support for your claims."
O.k. buddy, you tell me what my claim is exactly and I will respond, because you are putting words in my mouth and inferring (either intentionally or unintentionally) meaning that is not there. Come get some!
...and don't get angry... Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Rer Eirikr
Clearly Compensating The Dark Triad
21
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 20:43:00 -
[320] - Quote
A) When some of the major problems with EVE cannot be summed up in a simple survey questionnaire.
B) When you have no one available to sift through said data and tell CCP whats what (huh almost sounds like the CSM huh?)
C) When evidently 80% of the playerbase can't be arsed to fill it out despite claiming the world is out to get them.
If such a system was viable it would have been implemented already.
And most importantly, said system lacks a "No CCP don't do this" feature. |

Elise DarkStar
DarkCorp Capital Group DarkCorp Imperium
99
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 20:43:00 -
[321] - Quote
And now you've devolved from avoiding the issue right down to not even making sense.
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Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor The Seventh Day
103
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 20:46:00 -
[322] - Quote
Elise DarkStar wrote:And now you've devolved from avoiding the issue right down to not even making sense.
Can't make a case for yourself then... next! Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor The Seventh Day
103
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 20:49:00 -
[323] - Quote
Rer Eirikr wrote:A) When some of the major problems with EVE cannot be summed up in a simple survey questionnaire.
B) When you have no one available to sift through said data and tell CCP whats what (huh almost sounds like the CSM huh?)
C) When evidently 80% of the playerbase can't be arsed to fill it out despite claiming the world is out to get them.
If such a system was viable it would have been implemented already.
And most importantly, said system lacks a "No CCP don't do this" feature.
Honestly this thread did get me thinking, and I'll probably through up a post about it in the near future. I don't expect it to amount to anything of course, but the alternative is remaining silent.
For now, I will just say that dating sites do it all the time. Your thinking a little too linear in terms of check A,B,C,D
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Rer Eirikr
Clearly Compensating The Dark Triad
21
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 20:50:00 -
[324] - Quote
Your defense is you have no logical argument .. So no one can make a counterpoint to it.. Therefore you win. :facepalm:
And dating sites hire people to sift through said data while also using a rather mundane matchmaker :P |

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor The Seventh Day
103
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 21:24:00 -
[325] - Quote
Rer Eirikr wrote:Your defense is you have no logical argument .. So no one can make a counterpoint to it.. Therefore you win. :facepalm:
And dating sites hire people to sift through said data while also using a rather mundane matchmaker :P
Simply saying said thing does not make said thing true. Also: no not really about the dating site thing, at least not all of them anyway. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
463
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 22:09:00 -
[326] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:@Skunk Gracklaw
I like the part where you didn't not infer anything from "keep until the end of the year" after they fired 20% of their real-life labor force. If CCP ends the CSM project that's fine. We pretty much accomplished what we wanted with CSM6. If they keep the CSM as is we'll keep voting for Mittens. If they try and create some dumb system of breaking the game into factions and having each faction vote a representative in we'll laugh about it and then sit and watch as it fails to get anything done. There is literally no way we lose.
We were content to pretty much ignore the CSM until some evil people got the idea of using it to make nullsec even worse than it already is so Mittens stepped up and prevented that from happening. CCP has a plan for nullsec and while I don't know all the details our people on the CSM sound positive about it so that's good enough for me (and I think a lot of other goons).
The problem you and the rest of the pubbie hordes are having with the CSM is that you don't really understand how it works. The CSM, on its own, has no power to make changes in Eve. It's purpose is to act as a sounding board for the developers and as a conduit for players to give their input. Every other CSM failed to understand this and, therefore, had little impact and we saw CSM members posting open letters, leaking NDA'd information, and quitting the CSM in protest. None of that had any effect on CCP or the game. CSM6 is different because it took the purpose of the CSM and used it as a platform to publicize problems within the game. The Mittani is a well-known Eve personality, has a column on a gaming-related website and most importantly is able to write in complete sentences and not sound like a mouth breather so when he decided to publicize the problems with the game the rest of the gaming media listened. You'll never admit it but Mittens is the best player advocate you have and all of you calling for him to be kicked off the CSM because he likes to blow up miners or you just hate goons in general are idiots. |

Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
23
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 22:25:00 -
[327] - Quote
And I'd love to see anyone point out a single thing that the current CSM has done that'll be severely detrimental to the game as a whole. |

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor The Seventh Day
103
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 22:37:00 -
[328] - Quote
Quote:You'll never admit it but Mittens is the best player advocate you have and all of you calling for him to be kicked off the CSM because he likes to blow up miners or you just hate goons in general are idiots.
I think you are too in love with the goon hate to see anything but that in every post  I get just a sick of hearing it from the Goon(dot) Pubbies as I do from everyone else.
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
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Elson Tamar
Lion Investments
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 00:21:00 -
[329] - Quote
Right im hoping that i have got my point accross without aggro, hey we arnt actually shootinging each other here are we?
I think that most of the concerns are that there seems to be a PERCEPTION that there is somthing nafarious going on, which in my naive noob way i belive to be untrue. However i think, if i may stray off topic for the moment, that this may be the main problem. We have had a summer of rage, apparently, followed by incarna getting put on the back burner, lots of people being somwhat partisan and then the goons started their tornado or terror (which is very cool and makes me smile, even if i am a potential victim of it/making money off it). I think that with CCP giving into the playerbase at the same time as the goon campain happening has given the impression that the mittani has finally got spies into CCP. Now from what i understand of the history of CCP and corruption is that they are very cocious of it and negative press associated with it since the alleged BoB debarcal. I very much dobt that mittens would get away with anything, he is outspoken and i think in this case a victim of his own mythos. This is what happens when a player is pecived to have meta power, even if wileded for a percived good.
So as a new player whi is in high sec, although not a carebear (i got told this, so it must be true.) I trust Mittens to do his CSM job correctly and without predjudice and i trust him in game with nothing as he is dodgy IN GAME.
So what concerns do we have left, well from my new player perspective, one hell of a lot. We have two games here and both sides of the game seem to hate each other. Null and empire. Now i am lucky to have 5 year vet friends who have done the null sec thing, so have heard both sides. You know what if you intergrate the game so empire and null have to look to eachother for resources and infrastructure, guess what you'd have a better game, plus piracy, diplomacy and player interactions would be a hell of alot more interesting, plus i think that with travel becoming more prevelent between the two you might get small engagements, casue as a new player i have heard nothing about blob warefare i want to try! (To be fair as i have posted elswhere my PVP skills are weak and i assplode alot).
Things i do have an issue with is that since satrting play i have heard nothing but bad things about new players. We apparently are a wate of space and are an iritation to 'real players'. High sec is for loosers that cant play eve properley..... Um i just started and im finding my feet, i am luck y to have veteren friends who have shown the ropes and intend to move to lowsec once i feel my skills are competative and i can fit a HAC properley, a lot of new players arent lucky and its attitudes like this that leads to the hate.
If the CSM was lead by miners and the majority of players had asked for suicide gankers to be fixed (i know this isnt true but play along) I think the minority of PVPers (this is a fantasy rmember) would be up in arms about the abuses of the miner centric CSM and calling for resignations.
What i want as a new player is a CSM that will represent all the players and thinks what would be cool for everyone, So if Mittens (who isnt the only member, but is the loudest) is going to do that im cool with that, i think however we all need to take a look at how we represent ourselves and how we address each other in the forums, as it will have a larger effect. We need to cool off a little and really think is there corruption in our pew pew spaceship game, CCP may need to talk to us a bit more, and maybe the CSM needs to look at away of making sure everyone is clear of the distinction between character and player (maybe use real names for CSM duties?)
Oh and Mittani (in your CSM role) could you please make insurance payout for criminal activities a no no, it makes sense and makes sucide ganking a calculated risk for reward rather than wahoooo free money. I thik that that is a more EVE kinda thing.
*Sorry if thats abit of a ramble, but i kinda do that when i think about stuff* |

Jenshae Chiroptera
52
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 00:33:00 -
[330] - Quote
I am going to chose not to respond at this time in order to encourage input from people we haven't heard from yet.  CSM do you think? No matter the changes, high sec people chose the safests. Lots of stick and they will leave. Half the problem is the players in null sec; we do not want to be there with you. |
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