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StonedBoy
Gallente
Dark Wardens
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.01.27 14:33:00 -
[1]
Hey guys,
1) Boost web range? Web modules should have same range than warp disruptors. (adjust huginn/rapier etc ofc)
2) CCP talked about making MWD use more and more cap as you go faster... What about another way : make the agility get worst with higher max speed ? Same top speed, but much worst acceleration with very high speed ships... This would make much easier to catch nano****s before they get back to the gate when camping a gate... One exeption could be inties as they're done to get fast to a target...
What ya think ?
StonedBoy
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Ekuwy Oizoa
Anthrax Foundation
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Posted - 2008.01.27 14:35:00 -
[2]
I think people should blob less
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StonedBoy
Gallente
Dark Wardens
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.01.27 14:38:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Ekuwy Oizoa
I think people should blob less
I think u should speak less :p
Stay on topic plz
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Helen
Eve Innovative Technologies
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Posted - 2008.01.27 14:39:00 -
[4]
Plenty of ingame methods for dealing with nano gangs.
MWD use on 99% of ships in pvp does need looking at though but I'd argue thats an entirely different topic near enough.
Top Tip - Don't eat yellow snow |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.27 14:41:00 -
[5]
Increase webrange? No.
Give MWD more penalties or increase appeal of afterburners? Yes.
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StonedBoy
Gallente
Dark Wardens
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 14:41:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Helen
Plenty of ingame methods for dealing with nano gangs.
MWD use on 99% of ships in pvp does need looking at though but I'd argue thats an entirely different topic near enough.
false : only way to fight nanogangs is to use nanogangs
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Ekuwy Oizoa
Anthrax Foundation
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Posted - 2008.01.27 14:43:00 -
[7]
Originally by: StonedBoy
Originally by: Helen
Plenty of ingame methods for dealing with nano gangs.
MWD use on 99% of ships in pvp does need looking at though but I'd argue thats an entirely different topic near enough.
false : only way to fight nanogangs is to use nanogangs
Now i think you should speak less. Never seen 3 nano-hacs/recons kill a clever bs pilot before. 2* heavy neut, bit of manuvring, active tanking your bs instead of fitting 3* trimark rig and 3* 1600mm rolled thungsten tends to help aswell.
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cytomatrix
Caldari
Cosmic Ev0lution
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Posted - 2008.01.27 14:44:00 -
[8]
Originally by: StonedBoy
Hey guys,
1) Boost web range? Web modules should have same range than warp disruptors. (adjust huginn/rapier etc ofc)
2) CCP talked about making MWD use more and more cap as you go faster... What about another way : make the agility get worst with higher max speed ? Same top speed, but much worst acceleration with very high speed ships... This would make much easier to catch nano****s before they get back to the gate when camping a gate... One exeption could be inties as they're done to get fast to a target...
What ya think ?
StonedBoy
You need to stop whining.
Get a rapier/huginn or a minmatar EWAR frigate. Battleships with neutralizers. If you have lots of money, get a nano machariel.
______________________________________________________________
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Helen
Eve Innovative Technologies
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Posted - 2008.01.27 14:47:00 -
[9]
Originally by: StonedBoy
Originally by: Helen
Plenty of ingame methods for dealing with nano gangs.
MWD use on 99% of ships in pvp does need looking at though but I'd argue thats an entirely different topic near enough.
false : only way to fight nanogangs is to use nanogangs
Fail. Think Huginn/Rapier and some creative thinking. Also whine less.
Top Tip - Don't eat yellow snow |
Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 14:47:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 27/01/2008 14:48:14
Originally by: Ekuwy Oizoa
Originally by: StonedBoy
Originally by: Helen
Plenty of ingame methods for dealing with nano gangs.
MWD use on 99% of ships in pvp does need looking at though but I'd argue thats an entirely different topic near enough.
false : only way to fight nanogangs is to use nanogangs
Now i think you should speak less. Never seen 3 nano-hacs/recons kill a clever bs pilot before. 2* heavy neut, bit of manuvring, active tanking your bs instead of fitting 3* trimark rig and 3* 1600mm rolled thungsten tends to help aswell.
The problem with nano**** isn't that they can kill everything, but that they can hardly be killed by anything... (unless they are stupid enough not to run when they see a Huginn/Rapier).
Plus I am fairly sure a halfway competent nanogang will have any lone BS for breakfast, seeing how it should not even be able to lock them...
There is no 'n' in turret
There is no 'r' in faction
There is no 'a' in Scorpion
There is no 'e' in Caldari
There is no makeup in rogue drones |
Niffetin
Gallente
Omni Research
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Posted - 2008.01.27 14:50:00 -
[11]
Ohgod the noobs whining on forums about nanos...
L2P!
If you cant kill a nanoship then you suck. Plain simple.
---
Teeheee! |
Van Steiza
Logistical Anomaly
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Posted - 2008.01.27 14:56:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 27/01/2008 14:48:14
Originally by: Ekuwy Oizoa
Originally by: StonedBoy
Originally by: Helen
Plenty of ingame methods for dealing with nano gangs.
MWD use on 99% of ships in pvp does need looking at though but I'd argue thats an entirely different topic near enough.
false : only way to fight nanogangs is to use nanogangs
Now i think you should speak less. Never seen 3 nano-hacs/recons kill a clever bs pilot before. 2* heavy neut, bit of manuvring, active tanking your bs instead of fitting 3* trimark rig and 3* 1600mm rolled thungsten tends to help aswell.
The problem with nano**** isn't that they can kill everything, but that they can hardly be killed by anything... (unless they are stupid enough not to run when they see a Huginn/Rapier).
Plus I am fairly sure a halfway competent nanogang will have any lone BS for breakfast, seeing how it should not even be able to lock them...
Theres nothing wrong with that a lone bs.....
What you guys dont realise is that a nano gangcant attack every other bs bc gang it comes acrosss it has to be an optimal situation.
Nanoships are for a specific type of fighting its skirmish half the time you probably cannot kill what you want to kill so you run away.
The majority of nanoships are what 3 to 4km/s the 10km/s nanohacs that everyone Raves n rants about are a small minority of snaked out polied and pimped people and people need to realise this.
Jesus.
Stop whinjing use whats in the game theres plenty of things that can kill nanoship stop being babies use ur brains.
Its so annoying to have everything nerfed because people dont know how to counter them when the tools and options are right infront of them.
-----------------------------------------------
Stop removing my Sig its fine!!!! Nerf Moderaters. |
cytomatrix
Caldari
Cosmic Ev0lution
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Posted - 2008.01.27 15:00:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 27/01/2008 14:48:14
Originally by: Ekuwy Oizoa
Originally by: StonedBoy
Originally by: Helen
Plenty of ingame methods for dealing with nano gangs.
MWD use on 99% of ships in pvp does need looking at though but I'd argue thats an entirely different topic near enough.
false : only way to fight nanogangs is to use nanogangs
Now i think you should speak less. Never seen 3 nano-hacs/recons kill a clever bs pilot before. 2* heavy neut, bit of manuvring, active tanking your bs instead of fitting 3* trimark rig and 3* 1600mm rolled thungsten tends to help aswell.
The problem with nano**** isn't that they can kill everything, but that they can hardly be killed by anything... (unless they are stupid enough not to run when they see a Huginn/Rapier).
Plus I am fairly sure a halfway competent nanogang will have any lone BS for breakfast, seeing how it should not even be able to lock them...
Did you just say they can kill everything? lol. Only idiots get killed by nano ships. Only ship that doesnt have to slow down to do dmg is ishtar and drones are very easy to pop, even easier after the drone nerf. All other ships have to slow down, maybe except sac. Nano ships are only minor annoyance.
______________________________________________________________
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Ekuwy Oizoa
Anthrax Foundation
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Posted - 2008.01.27 15:01:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 27/01/2008 14:48:14
Originally by: Ekuwy Oizoa
Originally by: StonedBoy
Originally by: Helen
Plenty of ingame methods for dealing with nano gangs.
MWD use on 99% of ships in pvp does need looking at though but I'd argue thats an entirely different topic near enough.
false : only way to fight nanogangs is to use nanogangs
Now i think you should speak less. Never seen 3 nano-hacs/recons kill a clever bs pilot before. 2* heavy neut, bit of manuvring, active tanking your bs instead of fitting 3* trimark rig and 3* 1600mm rolled thungsten tends to help aswell.
The problem with nano**** isn't that they can kill everything, but that they can hardly be killed by anything... (unless they are stupid enough not to run when they see a Huginn/Rapier).
Plus I am fairly sure a halfway competent nanogang will have any lone BS for breakfast, seeing how it should not even be able to lock them...
Oooh, so now its the fault of the nano gang that a lone bs cannot lock them down. Hello! If 1 falcon shows up, it cannot kill it either. 
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Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.01.27 15:03:00 -
[15]
Originally by: StonedBoy
Originally by: Helen
Plenty of ingame methods for dealing with nano gangs.
MWD use on 99% of ships in pvp does need looking at though but I'd argue thats an entirely different topic near enough.
false : only way to fight nanogangs is to use nanogangs
false: only way to fight nanogangs is to use brain.
---
planetary interaction idea! |
Riho
Mercenary Forces
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2008.01.27 15:06:00 -
[16]
increaseing web range is stupid
and theres nothing wrong whit nano gangs
whats the difference.... 5 nano ships come and gank your ratting bs or 5 normal hacs and CS come and gank your bs ?
there are plenty of ways to counter them
----------------------------------
This is Me |
Lorz0r
You're Doing It Wrong
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Posted - 2008.01.27 15:13:00 -
[17]
It is fact that they are overpowered. why? because EVERYONE is flying them. you see gang after gang of nanoships.
Also the fact that 99.9% of all PVPers use MWD's is also completely unbalanced. If speed was nerfed somewhat then it allows for a much wider variety of combat styles. Now it's just slap as much speed as you can on your ship and worry about everything else later.
Then people come in and whine about the same old **** ( like this ;) ) - use neut's or a huggin wah wah. All it's doing is forcing people to use the SAME MODS and the SAME SHIPS over and over again.
tl;dr? Nerf speed somehow and it will open the game up a bit more.
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.27 15:16:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 27/01/2008 15:20:08
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 27/01/2008 15:16:43
Originally by: Ekuwy Oizoa
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 27/01/2008 14:48:14
Originally by: Ekuwy Oizoa
Now i think you should speak less. Never seen 3 nano-hacs/recons kill a clever bs pilot before. 2* heavy neut, bit of manuvring, active tanking your bs instead of fitting 3* trimark rig and 3* 1600mm rolled thungsten tends to help aswell.
The problem with nano**** isn't that they can kill everything, but that they can hardly be killed by anything... (unless they are stupid enough not to run when they see a Huginn/Rapier).
Plus I am fairly sure a halfway competent nanogang will have any lone BS for breakfast, seeing how it should not even be able to lock them...
Oooh, so now its the fault of the nano gang that a lone bs cannot lock them down. Hello! If 1 falcon shows up, it cannot kill it either.
And where was I complaining about it? I was just making a statement since someone else stated that a BS CAN hold its own vs. nanogangs, which it definitely cannot unless the nanogang sucks. Sure a lone BS shouldn't be able to fight a nanogang, but they should still be way more killable than they are currently. And all the smartasses talking about oh so many ways to kill them and a brain helping are probably just afraid that they might lose their almost untouchable pwnmobiles that allow for their favorite pastime: risk free ganks.
The only real counter (excluding other nanos, which only adds to the problem) are Rapiers and Huginns, and 90% of the time nanos just avoid contact when those are around. Sure occasionally nanos die, but all in all the nano makes PvP terribly boring for those hunting a nanogang.
It is not even so much about losing to nanos, it is about most of the time there not being a point to even try to fight them. Going down in a hopeless fight while tearing chunks out of the enemy to at least hurt him a little is fine and fun. Going down with only a very very remote chance to hurt him at all is not.
Not that I expect any of the nanofighters to understand that, most of them prolly don't consider the combat to be fun, but just the feeling of making someone else hurt while being impervious to harm themselves...
There is no 'n' in turret
There is no 'r' in faction
There is no 'a' in Scorpion
There is no 'e' in Caldari
There is no makeup in rogue drones |
Cromiara
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 15:19:00 -
[19]
false: only way to fight nanogangs is to use brain.
OK but if you don't have that is there a mod set to make up for it? I mean everyone should be able to have a chance to win right? Maybe a tricky logic test ship mod. If you fail it your ship gets a 5% boost to speed, agility and Shield regen per level of failure?
On a more serious note it's foolish to constantly change game mechanics because someone has problems winning. Heck, I'd love to see a Frigate class ship that could do level 4 missions, I'd love to have a better Stealth Bomber, I'd love to have mission options other than battleships but it is what it is.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Dark-Rising
The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.01.27 15:25:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Lorz0r
It is fact that they are overpowered. why? because EVERYONE is flying them. you see gang after gang of nanoships.
Also the fact that 99.9% of all PVPers use MWD's is also completely unbalanced. If speed was nerfed somewhat then it allows for a much wider variety of combat styles. Now it's just slap as much speed as you can on your ship and worry about everything else later.
Then people come in and whine about the same old **** ( like this ;) ) - use neut's or a huggin wah wah. All it's doing is forcing people to use the SAME MODS and the SAME SHIPS over and over again.
tl;dr? Nerf speed somehow and it will open the game up a bit more.
QFT. Nerf speed. I hate all these nano-ships, including those I have to fly because everyone else is.
Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II |
Brea Lafail
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Posted - 2008.01.27 15:28:00 -
[21]
Mmm, I think Im getting trolled here, but whatever; Only real benefit nanogangs have over traditional tanks is that they can disengage easily if things are looking bad.
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Ekuwy Oizoa
Anthrax Foundation
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 15:31:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 27/01/2008 15:16:43
Originally by: Ekuwy Oizoa
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 27/01/2008 14:48:14
Originally by: Ekuwy Oizoa
Now i think you should speak less. Never seen 3 nano-hacs/recons kill a clever bs pilot before. 2* heavy neut, bit of manuvring, active tanking your bs instead of fitting 3* trimark rig and 3* 1600mm rolled thungsten tends to help aswell.
The problem with nano**** isn't that they can kill everything, but that they can hardly be killed by anything... (unless they are stupid enough not to run when they see a Huginn/Rapier).
Plus I am fairly sure a halfway competent nanogang will have any lone BS for breakfast, seeing how it should not even be able to lock them...
Oooh, so now its the fault of the nano gang that a lone bs cannot lock them down. Hello! If 1 falcon shows up, it cannot kill it either.
And where was I complaining about it? I was just making a statement since someone else stated that a BS CAN hold its own vs. nanogangs, which it definitely cannot unless the nanogang sucks. Sure a lone BS shouldn't be able to fight a nanogang, but they should still be way more killable than they are currently. And all the smartasses talking about oh so many ways to kill them and a brain helping are probably just afraid that they might lose their almost untouchable pwnmobiles that allow for their favorite pastime: risk free ganks.
The only real counter (excluding other nanos, which only adds to the problem) are Rapiers and Huginns, and 90% of the time nanos just avoid contact when those are around. Sure occasionally nanos die, but all in all the nano makes PvP terribly boring for those hunting a nanogang.
It is not even so much about losing to nanos, it is about most of the time there not being a point to even try to fight them. Going down in a hopeless fight while tearing chunks out of the enemy to at least hurt him a little is fine and fun. Going down with only a very very remote chance to hurt him at all is not.
Not that I expect any of the nanofighters to understand that, most of them prolly don't consider the combat to be fun, but just the feeling of making someone else hurt...
You are complaining about it though. No shame in it, just saying so. That was a complainment.
Or a nano ship has nearly 100% hp or the nano ship is dead. There is not much between it, except for the nano boats that use shieldextenders as a buffer. Funny is that most shieldextending nano ships cannot or arent willing to perma run their mwd. So 1 neut on it and some manuvring and its death.
If people fly around your 10 BS gang with 10 +-180-200 mil poly paperthin carb hac/recon. Those 10 bs will win. Setup doesnt really matter, but some remote rep, neuts, active tanks, precision cruise, AC and lasers are very good for this. An absolution will whipe any nano recon/hac out. Just add some remote rep and its over.
And you are stupid (i serieusly mean this) for saying that nano-pilots dont enjoy combat and just want to hurt people. Are you mental? Its fun to fly a nano ship, to zoom around, escape the goddamn blobs and pick off the (soft) targets of an enemy gang and leave. Its awesome.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Dark-Rising
The Dawn of Darkness
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 15:31:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Brea Lafail
Mmm, I think Im getting trolled here, but whatever; Only real benefit nanogangs have over traditional tanks is that they can disengage easily if things are looking bad.
Wich is pretty good if you live in deep 0.0 where replacing a new ship is pita, yes?
Why fly something that has marginally better killing power but alot worse survivability when you can fly something with less firepower (but it wont matter because 99% of pvp is ganks) but with a very high survivability.
Its pretty obvious why everyone that can fly a nano is flying nano.
Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II |
Lorz0r
You're Doing It Wrong
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 15:38:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Brea Lafail
Mmm, I think Im getting trolled here, but whatever; Only real benefit nanogangs have over traditional tanks is that they can disengage easily if things are looking bad.
Wich is pretty good if you live in deep 0.0 where replacing a new ship is pita, yes?
Why fly something that has marginally better killing power but alot worse survivability when you can fly something with less firepower (but it wont matter because 99% of pvp is ganks) but with a very high survivability.
Its pretty obvious why everyone that can fly a nano is flying nano.
which is exactly why something needs to be done. discussion over.
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Helen
Eve Innovative Technologies
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 15:39:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Brea Lafail
Mmm, I think Im getting trolled here, but whatever; Only real benefit nanogangs have over traditional tanks is that they can disengage easily if things are looking bad.
Wich is pretty good if you live in deep 0.0 where replacing a new ship is pita, yes?
Why fly something that has marginally better killing power but alot worse survivability when you can fly something with less firepower (but it wont matter because 99% of pvp is ganks) but with a very high survivability.
Its pretty obvious why everyone that can fly a nano is flying nano.
That and it seems to get kills people have to travel far and wide, would you rather take a fast ship for traveling 50+ jumps or a slow one?
Answer is in the question.
Top Tip - Don't eat yellow snow |
Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
Night's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 15:42:00 -
[26]
Originally by: StonedBoy
Hey guys,
1) Boost web range? Web modules should have same range than warp disruptors. (adjust huginn/rapier etc ofc)
Makes the BS blob the be-all end-all of gang tactics. Obsoletes huggins/rapiers effectively. Kills interceptors completely. Makes the web the most overpowered module in game. Etc, etc... totally horrible ideas. L2P and all that.
It's not like extending webrange is impossible with the current mechanics.
Furthermore, if you cannot kill any nano-ships, you are simply a bad player.
Originally by: StonedBoy
2) CCP talked about making MWD use more and more cap as you go faster... What about another way : make the agility get worst with higher max speed ? Same top speed, but much worst acceleration with very high speed ships... This would make much easier to catch nano****s before they get back to the gate when camping a gate... One exeption could be inties as they're done to get fast to a target...
What ya think ?
StonedBoy
No. Your gatecamp should not be the automatic killmail delivery system.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Lorz0r
You're Doing It Wrong
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 15:59:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Lorz0r
Please explain to me how I'm a bad player because I can't kill a nanogang. It's ridiculous to say this - you HAVE to have specific modules and specific ships or you're ******. simple as that.
Well, for starters, you quite certainly either cannot read module descriptions or don't want to train anything.
Do you have to have a properly setup gang? Yes, of course. Do a few certain pilots in gang need to train some skills to give you more of a fighting chance? Yes :)
Furthermore, spewing idiotic ideas which would totally break the game (such as giving webs the same range as distruptors, or 24km namely) means the OP fails to understand EvE PvP and just wants to roam in a BS blob and wtf-pwn everything.
oh cool, so I have 15mil SP but because I can't use these specific modules to counter a nano-gang I'm a bad player.
and it's not a matter of training some skills to give us a fighting chance. If a nano-gang turns up it's a matter of either having loads of neuts or a minnie recon or waiting to die.
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Veto.
Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 15:59:00 -
[28]
OP pilots Huginn/Rapier  .
Train Recon V? 40km T2 webs. If your webs are only hitting at 24km...well....LOL.
I hear there is this little EIF called a Hyena as well.
I hear other stuff on how to kill fast ships...you know...tactics and whatnot too. Give them a try.
p.s. Agility is also hit when MWD is on...just sayin'.
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way"
General George Patton USA
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StonedBoy
Gallente
Dark Wardens
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 16:04:00 -
[29]
Some ppl got me wrong... not saying i can't defend myself against a nanoship... it's to catch them the problem... Let's say u camp a gate and some nanoships come... u just can't do anything to catch them... even with a huginn they mwd back to the gate before u even have time to lock them... Or they just mwd away and unless u got a nanohuginn/rapier u just can't do anything
Olso why are 99% of the small ganksquads nano gangs? If that's not a proof they're uber...
|
Helen
Eve Innovative Technologies
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 16:11:00 -
[30]
Originally by: StonedBoy
Olso why are 99% of the small ganksquads nano gangs? If that's not a proof they're uber...
Maybe because most ganksquads have to roam far to get kills, like I already said its a case of if you got to travel 50+ jumps you'd rather take a nano ship than a slow one.
Also fail camps are suck why don't people use more imagination to kill nanogangs.
Top Tip - Don't eat yellow snow |
Lorz0r
You're Doing It Wrong
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 16:13:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Helen
Originally by: StonedBoy
Olso why are 99% of the small ganksquads nano gangs? If that's not a proof they're uber...
Maybe because most ganksquads have to roam far to get kills, like I already said its a case of if you got to travel 50+ jumps you'd rather take a nano ship than a slow one.
Also fail camps are suck why don't people use more imagination to kill nanogangs.
why don't nanogangs use more imagination than slapping as much speed on their ship as possible?
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Van Steiza
Logistical Anomaly
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 16:14:00 -
[32]
Originally by: StonedBoy
Some ppl got me wrong... not saying i can't defend myself against a nanoship... it's to catch them the problem... Let's say u camp a gate and some nanoships come... u just can't do anything to catch them... even with a huginn they mwd back to the gate before u even have time to lock them... Or they just mwd away and unless u got a nanohuginn/rapier u just can't do anything
Olso why are 99% of the small ganksquads nano gangs? If that's not a proof they're uber...
IF THEY CHOOSe to burn back to the gate that is fine if they nano iff you HAVE THE ABILITY to stop them ITS not im****ignpossible.
99%% of really small roaming gangs are nanos because ITS CALLED skirmish FAST in out KILL if u can if u cant run.
Most the time as i said before you may not be able to kill what you are aiming to kill and have to run off.
There not uber they ONLY reign supreme IN A SMALLLLLL numbe rof situations.
If ur camping a gate without adequate support you fail.
Most of these fast skirmish roaming gangs are 0.0 anyway.
-----------------------------------------------
Stop removing my Sig its fine!!!! Nerf Moderaters. |
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Veto.
Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 16:14:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Lorz0r
Originally by: Helen
Originally by: StonedBoy
Olso why are 99% of the small ganksquads nano gangs? If that's not a proof they're uber...
Maybe because most ganksquads have to roam far to get kills, like I already said its a case of if you got to travel 50+ jumps you'd rather take a nano ship than a slow one.
Also fail camps are suck why don't people use more imagination to kill nanogangs.
why don't nanogangs use more imagination than slapping as much speed on their ship as possible?
Try Duck Hunt?
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way"
General George Patton USA
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Lorz0r
You're Doing It Wrong
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Posted - 2008.01.27 16:20:00 -
[34]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
Originally by: Lorz0r
Originally by: Helen
Originally by: StonedBoy
Olso why are 99% of the small ganksquads nano gangs? If that's not a proof they're uber...
Maybe because most ganksquads have to roam far to get kills, like I already said its a case of if you got to travel 50+ jumps you'd rather take a nano ship than a slow one.
Also fail camps are suck why don't people use more imagination to kill nanogangs.
why don't nanogangs use more imagination than slapping as much speed on their ship as possible?
Try Duck Hunt?
nah, i'll stick to the gate camps until you get nerfed thanks.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Enuma Elish.
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 16:27:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Ekuwy Oizoa
I think people should blob less
Ironically, I see this comment every time the 'nano' discussion comes up. And I see a whole load of people saying 'they're fine, there are counters'.
But remarkably, almost every single one is either:
Stalemate them
Bring more people
So, actually wanting to _win_ a fight (and no, making the nanogang go kill someone else in system isn't a 'win') you _have_ to blob.
Or do the same thing, better.
Pretty good for the 'anti-blob' ships eh?
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
Night's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 16:31:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/01/2008 16:32:10
Originally by: Lorz0r
oh cool, so I have 15mil SP but because I can't use these specific modules to counter a nano-gang I'm a bad player.
and it's not a matter of training some skills to give us a fighting chance. If a nano-gang turns up it's a matter of either having loads of neuts or a minnie recon or waiting to die.
LOL, module descriptions ftw
Originally by: James Lyrus
Ironically, I see this comment every time the 'nano' discussion comes up. And I see a whole load of people saying 'they're fine, there are counters'.
But remarkably, almost every single one is either:
Stalemate them
Bring more people
Not really, you're just selectively reading. Any counter which you do not like or cannot be bothered to train for or cannot afford is automagically invalid for some reason.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Ariel Dawn
Beets and Gravy Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 16:33:00 -
[37]
Here's an idea.
Train Energy Management to 5; Thermodynamics to 1.
Use an interdiction maneuvers command module (on any BC).
All of a sudden you've got an 18km web.
The only nano-ships that fight outside of 18km are drone ships; easily neutralized by killing their drones. Any turret-based nano-ship past this range is doing pathetic DPS that can be easily ignored.
Congratulations, you are now killing 250m-5000m nano-ships with a ship that costs 30-40m (cane, harb, whatever).
|
Kyusoath Orillian
UK Corp
Rare Faction
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 16:33:00 -
[38]
Huginn/Rapier blah blah blah
great the only ships that can ruin a nano ships day are minnie ships. most common nano fit ships are minnie ships , yeah thats fair, that makes sense. give AF's massive web bonuses then people will fly them in a useful role. yeah you heard me.
heavy nuets. they work and are a clever way of stopping nanogangs sometimes, they are a bs weapon system tho, and why do you have to fly a bs to take down a nano cruiser. balanced ?
something needs to be done about the quantity of counters for nano ships. Huginn/Rapier 2 ships ? 2 minnie ships ? why is that all ? can we get another option pls maybe an amarr option etc, amarr being there racial enemies i would assume means that they would develop some technology for halting these uber speed tank ships.
i don't mind nano ships, they are fun , lots of fun. but i'm sick of seeing vaga vaga vaga vaga, and i'm sick of hearing everyone saying they are training for the vaga because its so good. no one is saying i'm training for a cerb because its so awesome, its nano all the way now . tbh i would be training for a vaga if it didn't look so damn stupid and anyway, i can hear the swing of the nerfbat.
|
Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
Night's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 16:38:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/01/2008 16:39:37
Originally by: Ariel Dawn
Here's an idea.
Train Energy Management to 5; Thermodynamics to 1.
Use an interdiction maneuvers command module (on any BC).
All of a sudden you've got an 18km web.
The only nano-ships that fight outside of 18km are drone ships; easily neutralized by killing their drones. Any turret-based nano-ship past this range is doing pathetic DPS that can be easily ignored.
Congratulations, you are now killing 250m-5000m nano-ships with a ship that costs 30-40m (cane, harb, whatever).
I'd flame you for even saying it, but it appears people cannot be bothered to read, much like the poster below.
See, people just conviently ignore that and say 'huggin,rapier, waaaaaa!' because they cannot be bothered to train two months worth of skills.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Lorz0r
You're Doing It Wrong
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 16:55:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/01/2008 16:32:10
Originally by: Lorz0r
oh cool, so I have 15mil SP but because I can't use these specific modules to counter a nano-gang I'm a bad player.
and it's not a matter of training some skills to give us a fighting chance. If a nano-gang turns up it's a matter of either having loads of neuts or a minnie recon or waiting to die.
LOL, module descriptions ftw
Originally by: James Lyrus
Ironically, I see this comment every time the 'nano' discussion comes up. And I see a whole load of people saying 'they're fine, there are counters'.
But remarkably, almost every single one is either:
Stalemate them
Bring more people
Not really, you're just selectively reading. Any counter which you do not like or cannot be bothered to train for or cannot afford is automagically invalid for some reason.
what are you on about? module descriptions? yes, I can read them...is this some sort of moronic joke?
Fact is you say it makes you a bad player if you can't kill a nanogang. then you sorta change it a bit and say 'oh you need a specialised anti-nano gang' requiring all the typical anti-nano ****e. and if you can't use it you're a bad player!
'lolol module descriptions ftw' weirdo
|
ry ry
StateCorp
The State
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 16:56:00 -
[41]
this whole thread is silly.
[IMAGE REMOVED] |
Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
Night's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 17:00:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Lorz0r
'lolol module descriptions ftw' weirdo
You fail at thread reading, too 
I mean, seriously.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Lorz0r
You're Doing It Wrong
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 17:07:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Lorz0r
'lolol module descriptions ftw' weirdo
You fail at thread reading, too
I mean, seriously.
cool, read the rest of my post then
|
Helen
Eve Innovative Technologies
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 17:07:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Lorz0r
Originally by: Helen
Originally by: StonedBoy
Olso why are 99% of the small ganksquads nano gangs? If that's not a proof they're uber...
Maybe because most ganksquads have to roam far to get kills, like I already said its a case of if you got to travel 50+ jumps you'd rather take a nano ship than a slow one.
Also fail camps are suck why don't people use more imagination to kill nanogangs.
why don't nanogangs use more imagination than slapping as much speed on their ship as possible?
Most nano gangs don't go for all out max speed they typically settle for enough speed then damage mods. If I take a vagabond out I don't fly without a damage mod or two.
Only ship that can nano and not worry about damage mods is a Ishtar.
Also you fail at reading.
Top Tip - Don't eat yellow snow |
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Veto.
Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 17:08:00 -
[45]
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 27/01/2008 17:10:45
Originally by: Lorz0r
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
Originally by: Lorz0r
Originally by: Helen
Originally by: StonedBoy
Olso why are 99% of the small ganksquads nano gangs? If that's not a proof they're uber...
Maybe because most ganksquads have to roam far to get kills, like I already said its a case of if you got to travel 50+ jumps you'd rather take a nano ship than a slow one.
Also fail camps are suck why don't people use more imagination to kill nanogangs.
why don't nanogangs use more imagination than slapping as much speed on their ship as possible?
Try Duck Hunt?
nah, i'll stick to the gate camps until you get nerfed thanks.
I see you already enjoy the ingame version.
A guy who flies Minmatar recons whining about web range? You are a very VERY silly Gallente crossover aintcha?
Or are you Caldari crossover? FOTM is awesome eh?
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way"
General George Patton USA
|
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Veto.
Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 17:10:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian
Silly post
I hope Eric Hunt sees this....reads it....and then makes you haul ice forever .
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way"
General George Patton USA
|
Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 17:11:00 -
[47]
Main issue with Rapier/Huginn being the best counter is that they are so obvious that nanogangs just avoid them. Now if there was a mod (or mod combination) that could be fitted on any ship and reliably spoiled a nanofags day, things would be very different...
There is no 'n' in turret
There is no 'r' in faction
There is no 'a' in Scorpion
There is no 'e' in Caldari
There is no makeup in rogue drones |
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Veto.
Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 17:19:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Main issue with Rapier/Huginn being the best counter is that they are so obvious that nanogangs just avoid them. Now if there was a mod (or mod combination) that could be fitted on any ship and reliably spoiled a nanofags day, things would be very different...
Cloaked Rapier is obvious how?
Perhaps if pilots screened fleets and gangs properly they wouldn't have this sort of problem?
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way"
General George Patton USA
|
Lorz0r
You're Doing It Wrong
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 17:20:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Lorz0r on 27/01/2008 17:20:56
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 27/01/2008 17:10:45
Originally by: Lorz0r
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
Originally by: Lorz0r
Originally by: Helen
Originally by: StonedBoy
Olso why are 99% of the small ganksquads nano gangs? If that's not a proof they're uber...
Maybe because most ganksquads have to roam far to get kills, like I already said its a case of if you got to travel 50+ jumps you'd rather take a nano ship than a slow one.
Also fail camps are suck why don't people use more imagination to kill nanogangs.
why don't nanogangs use more imagination than slapping as much speed on their ship as possible?
Try Duck Hunt?
nah, i'll stick to the gate camps until you get nerfed thanks.
I see you already enjoy the ingame version.
A guy who flies Minmatar recons whining about web range? You are a very VERY silly Gallente crossover aintcha?
Or are you Caldari crossover? FOTM is awesome eh?
I'm a caldari BS pilot crossing over to Minmatar Command ships thanks.
Edit: Also - didn't complain about web range???
|
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Enuma Elish.
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 17:25:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: James Lyrus
Ironically, I see this comment every time the 'nano' discussion comes up. And I see a whole load of people saying 'they're fine, there are counters'.
But remarkably, almost every single one is either:
Stalemate them
Bring more people
Not really, you're just selectively reading. Any counter which you do not like or cannot be bothered to train for or cannot afford is automagically invalid for some reason.
So are you it seems, missing the 'almost'.
BC with 2 months + training time, and a warfare link and a mindlink, and a specialised fit will web a nanoship.
A huginn can probably take a vagabond, 1v1. Oh look, another 3+ months training time to get into.
Unless you can do these things, there is ABSOLUTELY no chance of winning a fight with a nanoship, short of blobbing it. You're trivalising the time investment of specialisation, and saying 'but oh, it took me ages to train HACs'. Actually, given the amount of training involved, I'm actually better off just nanoing up myself. Because it's ACTUALLY less effort to do so.
Yay balance.
So let me put it this way - if you speed fit a cruiser, you can outrun a non-speed fitted interceptor.
This _forces_ the interceptor into fitting speed mods, because otherwise it SIMPLY cannot compete with the speed fitted, larger ship.
This is in addition to every damn roaming gang in 0.0 at the moment, being 'nanoed up'.
I want more diversity in EVE, not less. Thanks.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Veto.
Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 17:29:00 -
[51]
Originally by: James Lyrus
This is in addition to every damn roaming gang in 0.0 at the moment, being 'nanoed up'.
I want more diversity in EVE, not less. Thanks.
Eliminate static bubbles?
End mass hypnosis?
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way"
General George Patton USA
|
Mortuus
Minmatar
Occassus Republica
Phalanx Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 17:33:00 -
[52]
You know, you could just target jam or tracking disrupt the nano ships....
Lets see, what else makes nano's sad, neuts, that takes like, 20 min to use....umm...an intercepter with web can really **** them off. Especially when coupled with a tracking disrupt.
Or hell, a bunch of heavily tanked BS with short range t2 guns and long range t2 ammo + neuts makes them cry.
Occassus Republica <3 |
Drasked
North Face Force
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 17:37:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Ekuwy Oizoa
I think people should blob less
ROFL
|
Ork Hepaj
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 17:42:00 -
[54]
Maybe a fixed MWD speed/ ship class like warp speed is fixed too could work well.So even if they nano the ship it wont be faster with mwd only ab.
|
Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
Night's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 17:49:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Lorz0r
BS argument void due to almost certain damping - check
And BS are easier to damp then nano-ships?
Anyway, you are STILL not reading the thread.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Drasked
North Face Force
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 17:52:00 -
[56]
I like how a lot of people say "because everyone is flying nano ships they must be overpowered!!"
So when it get's nerfed it's back to whining about tanking right? because that's the thing EVERYONE will be doing.
As far as i see it, until nano gangs win pos war's there is nothing wrong with them.
Small gang pvp is the only place where nano ships really shine, please don't make us use pos war tools for small scale roaming 
|
Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 17:55:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Cromiara
Originally by: Grimpak
false: only way to fight nanogangs is to use brain.
OK but if you don't have that is there a mod set to make up for it? I mean everyone should be able to have a chance to win right? Maybe a tricky logic test ship mod. If you fail it your ship gets a 5% boost to speed, agility and Shield regen per level of failure?
wtf you're talking about?
Here is what you need to engage a nanoship in a solo environment:
brains
nanite paste
mwd
web
what do you need to know about nanoships:
only 3 ships when in nano-setup can hurt you past the 20km mark and thos are the drone ships like the ishtar and curse and missile ships like the cerberus.
two of them are pretty easy to neutralize their firepower and the third requires VERY EXPENSIVE setups to be a viable nano (I'm talking about investing something in the order of one bil in implants alone here, nevermind faction mods and polys).
the most common of the nanoships, wich is the vagabond is pretty much useless for damage dealing purposes at 20km range. heck even at 10km range it won't deal that much damage and you have to slow down.
so how do you engage them.
timely usage of overheating and manual maneuvering. It's not a simple "mwd on -> approach target -> overheat webs and mwds -> F1-F8". IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.
nanoships hit ridiculously high speeds yes, but at the addition of increased stress over the nanopilot, wich means increased probability of doing something wrong, and considering how thin are nanoships.. well, mistakes are paid in full in this world.
continuous pressure over a nanopilot and he is bound to do some mistake sooner or later.
that's how I managed to kill a 8km/sec stilleto in my 3km/sec taranis. Sure it took 2 hours to get that damn kill, but in the end it was much more worthwhile, because it proved my point that when we talk about speed, you need brains to know how to engage the guy.
Brains and perseverance.
---
planetary interaction idea! |
Lorz0r
You're Doing It Wrong
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 18:08:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Cromiara
Originally by: Grimpak
false: only way to fight nanogangs is to use brain.
OK but if you don't have that is there a mod set to make up for it? I mean everyone should be able to have a chance to win right? Maybe a tricky logic test ship mod. If you fail it your ship gets a 5% boost to speed, agility and Shield regen per level of failure?
wtf you're talking about?
Here is what you need to engage a nanoship in a solo environment:
brains
nanite paste
mwd
web
what do you need to know about nanoships:
only 3 ships when in nano-setup can hurt you past the 20km mark and thos are the drone ships like the ishtar and curse and missile ships like the cerberus.
two of them are pretty easy to neutralize their firepower and the third requires VERY EXPENSIVE setups to be a viable nano (I'm talking about investing something in the order of one bil in implants alone here, nevermind faction mods and polys).
the most common of the nanoships, wich is the vagabond is pretty much useless for damage dealing purposes at 20km range. heck even at 10km range it won't deal that much damage and you have to slow down.
so how do you engage them.
timely usage of overheating and manual maneuvering. It's not a simple "mwd on -> approach target -> overheat webs and mwds -> F1-F8". IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.
nanoships hit ridiculously high speeds yes, but at the addition of increased stress over the nanopilot, wich means increased probability of doing something wrong, and considering how thin are nanoships.. well, mistakes are paid in full in this world.
continuous pressure over a nanopilot and he is bound to do some mistake sooner or later.
that's how I managed to kill a 8km/sec stilleto in my 3km/sec taranis. Sure it took 2 hours to get that damn kill, but in the end it was much more worthwhile, because it proved my point that when we talk about speed, you need brains to know how to engage the guy.
Brains and perseverance.
wait for the pilot to make a mistake - chec...wait I haven't heard that one before. I'll be sure to rely on it in the future.
Branko > yes, they are. Since you'll have the BS damped before he's even finished locking you.
and yes, i've read the whole thread and I still don't know what you're on about.
|
Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 18:15:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Grimpak
that's how I managed to kill a 8km/sec stilleto in my 3km/sec taranis. Sure it took 2 hours to get that damn kill, but in the end it was much more worthwhile, because it proved my point that when we talk about speed, you need brains to know how to engage the guy.
Brains and perseverance.
I am sure it is fine and possibly even exciting to spend that time and perseverance on one kill.
If you need it for every single damn pilot that roams 0.0, something it very wrong imho.
There is no 'n' in turret
There is no 'r' in faction
There is no 'a' in Scorpion
There is no 'e' in Caldari
There is no makeup in rogue drones |
Ork Hepaj
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 18:27:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
I am sure it is fine and possibly even exciting to spend that time and perseverance on one kill.
If you need it for every single damn pilot that roams 0.0, something it very wrong imho.
He waited until the enemy crashed then a quick scan and voala nano ship died :)
|
Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 18:36:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Ork Hepaj
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
I am sure it is fine and possibly even exciting to spend that time and perseverance on one kill.
If you need it for every single damn pilot that roams 0.0, something it very wrong imho.
He waited until the enemy crashed then a quick scan and voala nano ship died :)
no. I actually chased him, and he actually tried to engage me.
However there's no inty that can survive for long when he's in web range of a blasterranis.
not even a MSE II stilleto going at 8km/sec
I did end up with a busted mwd, a badly damaged web and 10% armor tho. that inty was tough.
---
planetary interaction idea! |
Captain Lock
Amarr
State War Academy Glory
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 18:50:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Captain Lock on 27/01/2008 18:51:44
You know what? Get over it. There are plenty of things that are powerful in this game. You see a gang of 10bs warping to you, you gtfo or you die or you bring 14Bses. Blobs are overpowered whaa. Gang of 5Nano Hacs warp in... so what? Pop the drones maybe pull off some interesting maneuvering.. oh wait you're in your blob fit. Get some sense, you wouldn't charge a tank with a kitchen knife. You wouldn't run after a cheetah with a bicycle. There are some things in life that you can't counter with run of the mill everyday fits. If that were the case, we'd all end up going and fitting that 3x 1600mm 3x trimark fit and seeing who DPSes more, in which case minmatar lose btw.
I'm sick of all these goddamn nerf this and that threads, what was it last week the Myrmordon?
______________________________
SWAG: Where the missfits gather. |
ArmyOfMe
Exotic Dancers Club
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 18:53:00 -
[63]
the main reason ppl do nano up is to avoid massive blobs that are all over 0,0
if you want fair fights then try not to blob up everytime you hear that 2-3 hostiles have enterd your space
|
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Veto.
Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 19:04:00 -
[64]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
the main reason ppl do nano up is to avoid massive blobs that are all over 0,0
if you want fair fights then try not to blob up everytime you hear that 2-3 hostiles have enterd your space
It usually only takes one  .
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way"
General George Patton USA
|
Sergo Mor'Zert
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 19:05:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Lorz0r
oh cool, so I have 15mil SP but because I can't use these specific modules to counter a nano-gang I'm a bad player.
and it's not a matter of training some skills to give us a fighting chance. If a nano-gang turns up it's a matter of either having loads of neuts or a minnie recon or waiting to die.
nope there is one more thing to consider: formations.
3 ships in triangle formation (with appropriate distance to each other) with webs (and capability to overload them, this dont take long to train) is very tough against nano ships as it make much harder orbiting, especially for those nano pilots that arent elite and arent experts in manual flying, neuts not required this work with regular pvp fitting and little more than wet paper tank so nano gang cant just insta pop one of 3 ships brakeing formation.
If nano ship get to close to any of those 3 ships he get webbed and all 3 ships concentrate firepower on him and pop (voice coordination required, manual firing guns usefull), you dont need any super modules just a bit of tactics and little more piloting skills than point and approach/orbit. If they flies constantly outside such formation they do much less dmg to single target as they arent all the time in firing range, also 3 ships could almost insta pop nano ship when he drop speed to open fire, if they manualy control they guns and wait with a volley to appropriate moment.
Ofcorse solo ships are natural pray of nano gangs as nano are skirmishers, also regular gangs biggest problem is positioning of ships they tend to keep them at random distances usually quite close to each other, such gangs are much easier to attack for nano gangs as there is more room to outmaneuver them.
Enjoy. |
PathetiQ
Gallente
Vale Heavy Industries
Molotov Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 19:08:00 -
[66]
nano is ok, get overheat skill for web, and stop whinning cause you die too mcuh agasint nano ship!
i hate nerfing thread!
::Killing Space Monkey Since 1969:: |
TheEndofTheWorld
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 19:18:00 -
[67]
Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 27/01/2008 19:18:02
Originally by: James Lyrus
...
Heavy neuts. HEAVY NEUTS. HEAVY NEUTS!!! Please, teach me how to avoid dying to them in a vagabond.
speedfit
Vagabond: 6km/s
Huginn, Zealot, Curse, Ishtar, Sacrilege: 3,5km/s-4km/s
You can outrun most of the nanoships with just mwd fitted ceptors, but what else to do you fit in interceptor's rig/lowslots??? Even funnier is that none of them can win 1v1 versus ratting fitted cruise ravens...
And capitals have similar issues, except that they have no real counters except for 1) bringing capitals or 2) blobbing them to death.
|
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Dark-Rising
The Dawn of Darkness
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 20:22:00 -
[68]
Originally by: PathetiQ
nano is ok, get overheat skill for web, and stop whinning cause you die too mcuh agasint nano ship!
i hate nerfing thread!
Yeah because most nano's orbit you at sub-13km range.
Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II |
Ariel Dawn
Beets and Gravy Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 20:27:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Lorz0r
Originally by: Mortuus
You know, you could just target jam or tracking disrupt the nano ships....
Lets see, what else makes nano's sad, neuts, that takes like, 20 min to use....umm...an intercepter with web can really **** them off. Especially when coupled with a tracking disrupt.
Or hell, a bunch of heavily tanked BS with short range t2 guns and long range t2 ammo + neuts makes them cry.
countering nano with nano - check
neuts - check
BS argument void due to almost certain damping - check
ECM - check - this is also very very difficult to maintain if one cycle fails you have a dead falcon/rook/bbird
An interceptor with minimal speed mods and a web (costing under 10m total) will have little difficulty in catching far more expensive nano-ships. Most Vagabond pilots are lemmings by fitted what everyone else does and don't fit a neut; dieing horribly to a Taranis/etc when they get jumped.
Clearly you haven't played EVE in a long while; Dampeners were nerfed by 30% then 50% with the release of Trinity and cannot dampen a BS effectively below the ranges at which these ships operate.
ECM will perma-jam a nanoship. Any ship that has enough speed to be deemed a nanoship (other than the Machariel) have very poor sensor strength and will never be able to lock a dedicated ECM ship.
Nano-ships are effective in gangs because whenever they are called primary they can quickly get out of range while standard fleets simply just slug it out. This leads to a lot of wasted firepower shooting at ships they cannot hit. The simple solution is to change tactics and engage any targets that enter web range FFA style as you do not need focused firepower to bring them down. In fights decent sized gangs, nano-ships will be entering web range quite often of the opposing gang as it is impossible to track and keep range of 5-30+ people (depending on how mentally quick you are) at a time.
This said, I realize that trying to convince people who are beyond reasoning will continue whining. I've started training Gallente ships a month ago so I can simply MWD to range and roll my face on the keyboard to successfully PvP instead of having to dance around multiple targets and hoping they're the same dumb sort that complains on these forums and have no counters fitted.
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Dromidas Shadowmoon
Minmatar
54th Knights Templar
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2008.01.27 21:59:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Dromidas Shadowmoon on 27/01/2008 22:01:30
Just because you see gangs of a certain type of ship everywhere (in 0.0) doesn't mean they're overpowered. The ability for a whole gang to travel system to system very quickly (which is what any light ship can do) is extremely useful and powerful in 0.0. It just happens that HAC/Recon is the strongest light ship there is.
If BS could warp at any reasonable speed then you'd see a lot of BS gangs instead.
Quote:
This said, I realize that trying to convince people who are beyond reasoning will continue whining. I've started training Gallente ships a month ago so I can simply MWD to range and roll my face on the keyboard to successfully PvP instead of having to dance around multiple targets and hoping they're the same dumb sort that complains on these forums and have no counters fitted.
LOL just saw that.. love it
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Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it. |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Dark-Rising
The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.01.27 22:00:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Ariel Dawn
I've started training Gallente ships a month ago so I can simply MWD to range and roll my face on the keyboard to successfully PvP instead of having to dance around multiple targets and hoping they're the same dumb sort that complains on these forums and have no counters fitted.
Or you could train amarr and do neither of those
Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II |
Kyusoath Orillian
UK Corp
Rare Faction
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Posted - 2008.01.27 22:38:00 -
[72]
Originally by: James Lyrus
So let me put it this way - if you speed fit a cruiser, you can outrun a non-speed fitted interceptor.
This _forces_ the interceptor into fitting speed mods, because otherwise it SIMPLY cannot compete with the speed fitted, larger ship.
This is in addition to every damn roaming gang in 0.0 at the moment, being 'nanoed up'.
I want more diversity in EVE, not less. Thanks.
QFT.
if you fly nano, be aware, its something that will be nerfed in some way because it has gone too far and is too easy to do compared to its counter(s). that simple.
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Gamesguy
Amarr
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.27 22:38:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Lorz0r
wait for the pilot to make a mistake - chec...wait I haven't heard that one before. I'll be sure to rely on it in the future.
Branko > yes, they are. Since you'll have the BS damped before he's even finished locking you.
and yes, i've read the whole thread and I still don't know what you're on about.
Trinity called, he wants to tell you the game has changed.
Really shows a lot about the sort of people whining about nanos, when they dont even realize that a very large part of the pvp in this game has changed due to a nerf...over a month ago?
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Kyusoath Orillian
UK Corp
Rare Faction
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Posted - 2008.01.27 22:48:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Grimpak
Here is what you need to engage a nanoship in a solo environment:
.....overheating.....
yes we should have to learn thermodynamics and over heat mods to catch a nano ship. thats fair. the nano pilot had to over heat his mods didn't he ? no ? really ? is that because some nano ships require very little skills to fit correctly and take great advantage of going fast.?
speed tanking on certain ships is far far easier than countering it. and you proved that easily. thanks
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Terianna Eri
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.01.27 22:51:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Ariel Dawn
I've started training Gallente ships a month ago so I can simply MWD to range and roll my face on the keyboard to successfully PvP instead of having to dance around multiple targets and hoping they're the same dumb sort that complains on these forums and have no counters fitted.
I have nothing productive to add to this thread, but this made me laugh after an awful, awful day.
Thanks.
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Lorz0r
You're Doing It Wrong
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Posted - 2008.01.27 23:00:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Lorz0r on 27/01/2008 23:01:45
Originally by: Gamesguy
Originally by: Lorz0r
wait for the pilot to make a mistake - chec...wait I haven't heard that one before. I'll be sure to rely on it in the future.
Branko > yes, they are. Since you'll have the BS damped before he's even finished locking you.
and yes, i've read the whole thread and I still don't know what you're on about.
Trinity called, he wants to tell you the game has changed.
Really shows a lot about the sort of people whining about nanos, when they dont even realize that a very large part of the pvp in this game has changed due to a nerf...over a month ago?
oh hay^^
funny that cus every nano gang i've encountered...which is alot since the patch has still had damps and the only ship i've been able to target has been the tackling ishtar/sac moving 4k/s+
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Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.01.27 23:09:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/01/2008 23:09:50
Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian
yes we should have to learn thermodynamics and over heat mods to catch a nano ship.
Yes, of course. They need to train T2 guns and all that to be effective at all and so on and on. Plus HAC skills and a lot of navigation skills (which everyone should have though).
T1 hull nano-ing doesn't work, you see..
Furthermore, training for Heat is the absolute best way to spend your 18 days of training time, quite definitely better then training for HACs which takes noticeably longer.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.01.27 23:56:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian
Originally by: Grimpak
Here is what you need to engage a nanoship in a solo environment:
.....overheating.....
speed tanking on certain ships is far far easier than countering it. and you proved that easily. thanks
yes, I proved that you need to outsmart your opponents, instead just go "click-approach-mwd-F1->F8".
I have to actually THINK about how defeat an enemy.
shocking, I know.
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planetary interaction idea! |
Gamesguy
Amarr
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.28 00:39:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Lorz0r
Edited by: Lorz0r on 27/01/2008 23:01:45
Originally by: Gamesguy
Originally by: Lorz0r
wait for the pilot to make a mistake - chec...wait I haven't heard that one before. I'll be sure to rely on it in the future.
Branko > yes, they are. Since you'll have the BS damped before he's even finished locking you.
and yes, i've read the whole thread and I still don't know what you're on about.
Trinity called, he wants to tell you the game has changed.
Really shows a lot about the sort of people whining about nanos, when they dont even realize that a very large part of the pvp in this game has changed due to a nerf...over a month ago?
oh hay^^
funny that cus every nano gang i've encountered...which is alot since the patch has still had damps and the only ship i've been able to target has been the tackling ishtar/sac moving 4k/s+
Yes I bet you see a lot of nanogangs camping a lowsec gate next to an empire entrance.
What nanoships, pray tell, fit damps nowadays?
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Solidarity Lost
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Posted - 2008.01.28 00:58:00 -
[80]
3 rapiers > nanosac
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Steakkbone
Helios Incorporated
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.01.28 00:59:00 -
[81]
STOP WHINING
/Arnold
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Dalen III
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.01.28 01:20:00 -
[82]
Ok from somebody that solo's alot "nano" is extremely tuff to pull off. Manual orbiting, watching radial velocity, timing mwd bursts, whole list of things for this to work on. I get extremely fustrated with myself trying to get down "nanotarding". I'm praticing as much as I can when I know for a fact it would be just easier to get into a real tank and just get in web range and fire. If you put yourself in a static location and try to deal with moving targets you lose at basic PvP.
Don't blame me, blame the main I'm supporting. |
Original Copy
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Posted - 2008.01.28 01:31:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian
Huginn/Rapier blah blah blah
something needs to be done about the quantity of counters for nano ships. Huginn/Rapier 2 ships ? 2 minnie ships ? why is that all ? can we get another option pls maybe an amarr option etc, amarr being there racial enemies i would assume means that they would develop some technology for halting these uber speed tank ships.
Well as much as I agree nano ships are a bit overdone, you've missed a couple points.
Hyena EAF (paper tiger, to be honest)
Curse
Okay, granted... you have 4 ships, not just 2. A pitiful number compared to well... pretty much anything frig or cruiser that's going PVPing, and a good number of BS, too.
Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian
i don't mind nano ships, they are fun , lots of fun. but i'm sick of seeing vaga vaga vaga vaga, and i'm sick of hearing everyone saying they are training for the vaga because its so good. no one is saying i'm training for a cerb because its so awesome, its nano all the way now . tbh i would be training for a vaga if it didn't look so damn stupid and anyway, i can hear the swing of the nerfbat.
Are you forgetting that, against slower prey, a Cerb or Sacrelage is far more painful than a Vaga plinker.
I find it hugely annoying, however, that nano ships can outrun the fastest missiles available without breaking a sweat. I can deal with them escaping the explosion R of bigger missiles... but when a cruiser (or BS!) can outrun a *rocket* there's something wrong.
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Original Copy
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Posted - 2008.01.28 01:45:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Original Copy on 28/01/2008 01:45:59
Originally by: Grimpak
He waited until the enemy crashed then a quick scan and voala nano ship died :)
no. I actually chased him, and he actually tried to engage me.
However there's no inty that can survive for long when he's in web range of a blasterranis.
not even a MSE II stilleto going at 8km/sec
And there are no BlasterRanis that can survive getting in web range of a carefully fitted Industrial...
So I guess it balances...
Also, a Claw/Crow/RailRanis/Hyena can spell doom for a BlasterRanis if they can keep beyond faction web range.
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Zkillz kun
Beets and Gravy Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.01.28 02:13:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Ariel Dawn
*inteligence and reasoning*
<3
i personally hate nano ships, but thats because i'm lazy. most nano pilots just orbit and start shooting, much like the people who complain about the nano's. Just start traveling towards the nearest spacial object and keep trying to lock/web/shoot and 75% of the time you will kill them. like everyone else said, nano ships can be killed. summated for your tl;dr pleasure:
1. tanking/ignoring/blobbing
1.5. brains
2. actually trying to catch them
3. fitting differnetly depending on the situation
4. fitting specifically to fight nanoships
in order of necessity/ease of accomplishment.
_____
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Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.01.28 02:36:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Grimpak on 28/01/2008 02:36:24
Originally by: Original Copy
Edited by: Original Copy on 28/01/2008 01:45:59
Quote:
Originally by: Grimpak
He waited until the enemy crashed then a quick scan and voala nano ship died :)
no. I actually chased him, and he actually tried to engage me.
However there's no inty that can survive for long when he's in web range of a blasterranis.
not even a MSE II stilleto going at 8km/sec
And there are no BlasterRanis that can survive getting in web range of a carefully fitted Industrial...
So I guess it balances...
Also, a Claw/Crow/RailRanis/Hyena can spell doom for a BlasterRanis if they can keep beyond faction web range.
depends of how you have the taranis fitted.
I can make a taranis fit with a totally passive tank with resists averaging the 60% and nearly 4km/sec speed.
only two intys that I know I don't have a chance is actually the maled and the crow, specially if said crow is pimp-fitted.
the maled is a scary thing with that armor resist bonus and rockets
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planetary interaction idea! |
Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Eve's Elite
Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2008.01.28 02:39:00 -
[87]
The problem is not the web range its the power of the web. THEY ARE ALL TOO STRONG
Webs = speed tank on or speed tank off
You can't web rep yourself to tank the web damage.
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.01.28 02:51:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian
Originally by: Grimpak
Here is what you need to engage a nanoship in a solo environment:
.....overheating.....
yes we should have to learn thermodynamics and over heat mods to catch a nano ship. thats fair. the nano pilot had to over heat his mods didn't he ? no ? really ? is that because some nano ships require very little skills to fit correctly and take great advantage of going fast.?
speed tanking on certain ships is far far easier than countering it. and you proved that easily. thanks
That does it.
Eric? Eric? Eric?
Don't make him mad Mr Orillian .
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way"
General George Patton USA
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Caffeine Junkie
Spartan Industrial Manufacturing
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.28 02:55:00 -
[89]
I am selling the solution to Nanoships:
Linkage
Unfortunatley, it is also a nano-ship.
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Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2008.01.28 05:49:00 -
[90]
instead of posting the over nine thousandth nano whine post you could instead play ingame and find out yourself how to defeat nanoing ships with modules that are just ingame.
and btw spider tank bs gang beats every nano gang no matter what.
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Semkhet
Spartan Industries
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.28 07:31:00 -
[91]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Edited by: James Lyrus on 27/01/2008 17:27:47
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: James Lyrus
Ironically, I see this comment every time the 'nano' discussion comes up. And I see a whole load of people saying 'they're fine, there are counters'.
But remarkably, almost every single one is either:
Stalemate them
Bring more people
Not really, you're just selectively reading. Any counter which you do not like or cannot be bothered to train for or cannot afford is automagically invalid for some reason.
So are you it seems, missing the 'almost'.
BC with 2 months + training time, and a warfare link and a mindlink, and a specialised fit will web a nanoship.
A huginn can probably take a vagabond, 1v1. Oh look, another 3+ months training time to get into.
Unless you can do these things, there is ABSOLUTELY no chance of winning a fight with a nanoship, short of blobbing it. You're trivalising the time investment of specialisation, and saying 'but oh, it took me ages to train HACs'. Actually, given the amount of training involved, I'm actually better off just nanoing up myself. Because it's ACTUALLY less effort to do so. (although I'm currently on minmatar cruiser 5 for webber ships)
Yay balance.
So let me put it this way - if you speed fit a cruiser, you can outrun a non-speed fitted interceptor.
This _forces_ the interceptor into fitting speed mods, because otherwise it SIMPLY cannot compete with the speed fitted, larger ship.
This is in addition to every damn roaming gang in 0.0 at the moment, being 'nanoed up'.
I want more diversity in EVE, not less. Thanks.
If you want diversity in EvE, you could start by cleaning your own house before indicting nanowarfare.
You're the kind of genius who seems to find abnormal that even ceptors fit for speed when speed is the cornerstone of their whole design. Besides, stating that nanocruisers trivially go faster than ceptors is an outright lie which points either to you achieving a rare incompetence in knowing what and how things can be done in this game, or you're just trolling.
Nanowarfare has three structural advantages over conventional warfare which have little to do with all your whines:
1) It allows well organized corps to field multiple small gangs, hence covering a bigger area of space, versus fat slow blobs which in fact are just a downsized version of fleets where the only guy whose skills count is the FC.
2) It allows to proactively hunt targets deep into hostile space, thus leading to more interesting engagements. Anyone who screams against nanoships is certainly not the kind of player willing to do 40+ jumps on a daily base looking for opponents.
3) It allows to literally engage in pursuit against retreating hostile gangs over many jumps, but at the risk of being drawn into a trap. That's a kind of dramatic dynamical gameplay impossible to achieve by any other warfare style. These pursuits put an extreme emphasis on ceptors to sniff the target's path and obliges the whole gang to reassess its situation, objectives and escape routes every 15 seconds. There is no way of achieving this with ships which do not trade their dps/tank for speed.
There is something you should have ABSOLUTELY no doubts about:
Nanowarfare is just a limited tool which can do wonders when applied in the right theatre at the right moment against the right targets. Don't think a second that people good at nanowarfare can't kick butts the conventional way: even then, their knowledge, organization and cohesion will make the difference as long numbers are balanced.
But when numbers are NOT balanced, don't expect smart players to fight on the terms of the people which already outnumbers them...
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stormyfs911
Minmatar
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation
space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2008.01.28 07:34:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Semkhet
Utter genius
Guess someone was on the debating team :P
Congratulations, I believe you have just won Eve.
-----SIGGY TIME-----
Thank you Ursula LaGuinn |
Venec
Rave Technologies Inc.
C0VEN
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Posted - 2008.01.28 11:31:00 -
[93]
Butthurt after losing that dominix, are we?
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Billy Hardcore
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Posted - 2008.01.28 11:51:00 -
[94]
First of all, it seems that some people in this thread think nano-ships should be counterable by any new player just starting the game. Any training time needed to kill a nano-ship is unacceptable according to these people.
How long do you think a new player has to train to kill a pirate rokh? I'd say you need at least a BC to even dent its tank, even with a full t2 kit of guns. How long does that take to train? But that won't even get the job done. So what's the solution to this problem?
1. Get more skillpoints (which is not an acceptable alternative, appearantly)
2. Bring more people to your gang
While bringing more people to counter a nano-ship may work quite well, it seems that some people still have no clue about how to kill nano-ships this way. And that is where the whining starts.
Do you know a ceptor with a web can pretty much solo a droneless Vagabond? Do you think a ceptor can hold a vagabond with mediocre drone skills down long enough for another ship in your gang to web it? Do you know almost no nano ship can do DPS when travelling at their maximum speed like some other people in this thread posted? Do you know that you should warp 20-10km from your buddy if he's being harassed by a nano-ship, so you force the guy to manually orbit? Do you know neutralizers? Do you know remote reppers? Bring a sensorboosted double webbing rapier/huginn, armor tank it, add 2 precision cruise ravens both with 2x remote reppers and you cannot be touched. Don't let me get started on ganglinked overheated double web BC.
I fly nano-ships myself, but I can't recall the last time I was actually neuted.. There's plenty of countermeasures. But it seems people don't want to use them. They just think; "Ridiculous, I shouldn't have to use any of these counters." "I fit a web, that should be enough. And if it is not, I'll just come to eve-o forums and make a nerfpost." And there we are.
I'm sorry, but that's not how the game works..
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vostok
Minmatar
Suns Of Korhal
deadspace society
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Posted - 2008.01.28 12:36:00 -
[95]
Well im not gonna bother reading the pages of posts telling you how much you fail in eve, i will however add... you fail
troll post ftw :P
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