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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
General StarScream
Borg Collective hive mind
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Posted - 2008.01.30 22:13:00 -
[151]
so the only race left out is gallente since they cant do any Em dam without drones? Please resize signature to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Ariel Dawn
Beets and Gravy Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.01.30 22:13:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Corrupt Panda So ... in this Amarr fix:
Caldari get a 10% boost to EM and Exp damage with missiles. Gallente get a 10% boost to EM and Exp damage with drones. Minmatar get a 10% boost to EM and Exp damage with ... everything. 20% if you count EMP ammo. Amarr get a 10% boost to EM damage with lasers.
This is not an Amarr fix. This is a stealth Minmatar boost.
Minmatar T2 ships also lost EM shield resists for some reason; from 70% to 62.5% in addition to the armor reduction.
Minmatar could use a bit more DPS anyway on close-range ammo. Currently Minmatar ships with a Damage/RoF bonus are outdamaged by Hybrids/Lasers used on ships with a single damage bonus and supporting tanking/cap/whatever bonus.
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Captain Campion
Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.01.30 22:14:00 -
[153]
got another one
tracking disruptor bonus
.... web/scram bonusses are useful against all ships .... jamming bonusses are useful against all ships .... dampening bonusses are useful against all ships
... tracking disruptors... only work on turret ships, which is like.. half of eve, or whatever those stats showed a while back.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.01.30 22:15:00 -
[154]
OMG! 6 pages allready!!!
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SonOTassadar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.01.30 22:17:00 -
[155]
Edited by: SonOTassadar on 30/01/2008 22:18:18 Wow. What a dumb change.
First off... how is it balanced that armor tankers have more overall base resistances than shield tankers?
Second, what was it? Last year people were complaining that combat was too short, so you sought to increase the amount of base armor/shields to ships. Now you're reducing resistances. If you followed the pattern that originally started with, you would simply increase resistances across the board except for EM on armor and explosive on shields. This would prolong combat (like you planned on doing last year) and bring everyone in line with Amarr.
I can't believe how totally off-base you are from the problem. I don't like the Amarr race; their lore, their ships, their guns -- it all is just unattractive to me, and I joke that because they're so low on the totem pole that CCP should just do away with them entirely. If you're going to balance them, then balance them. Amarr players didn't want rockets as a secondary weapon, but you gave it to them anyways. Now you're lowering resistances, when nobody, not the race that you're attempting to boost, and not the races that are receiving the nerf, want them.
This is a terrible idea. Go back to the drawing board and try again. -----
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Aslann
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.01.30 22:19:00 -
[156]
Edited by: Aslann on 30/01/2008 22:19:51 Wee another stealth gallente nerf, blasters do neither EXP nor EM damage (everybody has drones). And blasters use almost the same amount of cap as lasers do (more even with ship skills at 5 I think), while having smaller cap pools. QQ amarr, QQ. ______________________
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N1fty
Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.01.30 22:21:00 -
[157]
I remember the day when everyone would fit 3 hardners on armour and EM came out the weakest resist.
Good times... --
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.01.30 22:23:00 -
[158]
Quote: First off... how is it balanced that armor tankers have more overall base resistances than shield tankers?
I would like to see the reasoning on this too. I'm sure at one point (before the prevalence of eanm omni tanks) there was a good reason for it, but no longer. Shield tanks are underrepresented in pvp as it is. Everyone chooses armor tanks.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.01.30 22:28:00 -
[159]
I was going to post a wall of text, but the forum ate my post.
In short:
This change = good. But is 10% enough, considering the proliferation of trimark-plated-omnitanks? On those tanks, EM and them are the highest resists. When you lready have 2 EANM II and a damage control, you don't fit an explosive hardener, it's not worth using a slot.
Also, a general issue that affect both amarr and gallente: the difference in active tanking sustainability between ships that use cap for their weapons and ships that don't is too great. Something in the order of 30-40%. A good way to reduce that difference would be to boost the controlled burst skill.
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What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs. |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.01.30 22:31:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Aslann And blasters use almost the same amount of cap as lasers do (more even with ship skills at 5 I think), while having smaller cap pools. QQ amarr, QQ.
Im pretty sure you dont know what youre talking about. Gallente is more then fine and will still be fine after this. Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II |
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Vanlade
Amarr Blood Holocaust
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Posted - 2008.01.30 22:35:00 -
[161]
zuzuzuzla
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Valadeya uthanaras
Killjoy.
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Posted - 2008.01.30 22:36:00 -
[162]
FIRST of ALL
lots of <3 CCP , it was long due and as an amarr pilot, I can only be happy to see the ship I like getting a most deserved oomph!!!
this change is quite calculated, because it also give reason to use EM drone that were also badly broken.
For the people complaining about the nerf to exp in sheild...I dont see how that nerf amarr..... I dont sheild tank, but minmatarr and caldari do... and I was most required, mainly because EMP was indeed somewhat broken.
the nerf to my own EM resist.... do I really care!!!!! I am the one using EM damage the most, not the other, but other can also use it, and I agree I should take more damage from it......SIMPLY BECAUSE it now give other races reason to use EM damaging weaponry (Drone, missile....), and this 10% reduction involve a up to 20% boost to damage I will deal to some ship
aka minmatarr whiner, your 10% boost to EM resist was in reality a 20% boost......my 10% racial resit was NEVER balanced in comparison...and you will still have more EM resist on than anyone....
Great JOB CCP
Now this change does not fix the cap usage, when some guns, like mega pulse don't really need a huge bufff, some laser weaponry do, and Tachyon NEED IT!!! capping out in 2-3 mins does not make sence, but doing so in 10-15 mins, when minmatarr and caldari never cap out would be balanced....
And well, I wont say anything till I see the ship change, but here a list that most player think need help:
prophecy apocalypse abaddon(ONLY CAP USE)
retribution (does not compete in any way with other AF, lowest damage and lowest versatility!!!!)
zealot ( need a lot of love in dps department, other races tend to have a lot more DPS, when I do not get the versatility thay have.....aka vagabond/deimos/cerberus/eagle.... all have higher DPS capability and IT SHOULD NOT BE!!!!!)
absolution ( see above, mainly DPS VS CAP USE being a huge burden, compare to the other races)
CURSE/PILGRIM: Ewar bonus need a huge buff, a sleipnir with barrage tracking my 3km/s curse with 3 tracking disrtuptor II with full skill and tracking script on him IS WRONG!!!!
THX a lot CPP for this long need buff to EM damage
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Ral Ulgur
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.01.30 22:38:00 -
[163]
I really hope the proposed suggestions will have the desired effects.
An eye should also be kept on the fact that there are players who don't pvp or whose role in PVP is not to do damage. These players all get the downsides of the resistance changes, none of the benefits: -PvE players recieve more damage while not doing more themselves (true for all races, not taking into account possible fitting changes for amarr) -Electronic warfare platforms become more vulnurable while not becoming more effective -Same for logistics
Other sideffects may include: -Boost of highsec ganking (targets have less effective hp) -Boost of speedtanking as speedtanks rarely rely on resistances (though they can still be helpful)
Also for CCP to consider: Amarr are missing a frig.
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General StarScream
Borg Collective hive mind
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Posted - 2008.01.30 22:40:00 -
[164]
i still dont see why thees changed are needed, or why amarr needs a boost at all, they are quite easy to fit. can change Range in 2 sec, great dam, good tracking, great tank, and uber gank,
try fighting a Ganka geddon with 5 t2 drones on you.
its more powerfull than a mega since it will hit you hard for all the 24km in scram range, and this is just solo.
i would run and hide from a gang of such ships, they would meelt, armor and sheild tanks like a kake would go missing at a riki lake welcome party. Please resize signature to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Valadeya uthanaras
Killjoy.
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Posted - 2008.01.30 22:42:00 -
[165]
Edited by: Valadeya uthanaras on 30/01/2008 22:56:13
Originally by: Ariel Dawn
Minmatar T2 ships also lost EM shield resists for some reason; from 70% to 62.5% in addition to the armor reduction.
Minmatar could use a bit more DPS anyway on close-range ammo. Currently Minmatar ships with a Damage/RoF bonus are outdamaged by Hybrids/Lasers used on ships with a single damage bonus and supporting tanking/cap/whatever bonus.
YES but your weapons DONT use capacitor at ALL!!!!!! never forget that
EDIT: ARIEL you are asking for a boost while you agree that its fine BECAUSE you have more speed, agility AND the ability to change damage type, even if it take some time. You should realise that your own tank IS SPEED on most ship, and that a tempest for exemple, have 22.975 effective slot:
11.975 high 5 med 6 low
MORE THAN any other ship in game..... as amarr I dont have a MWD on all my ship, I simply cant afford to fit one, but as minmatarr you fit one on all your ship and its good, that what they call balance mate.
you can use your weaponry while cap out, and they have a crazy high tracking. I sacrifice a INSANE amount of cap to have this soon to be(because of resist getting finally balanced) good damage, you give up DPS for your tracking and being capless
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Ariel Dawn
Beets and Gravy Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.01.30 22:46:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Valadeya uthanaras
Originally by: Ariel Dawn
Minmatar could use a bit more DPS anyway on close-range ammo. Currently Minmatar ships with a Damage/RoF bonus are outdamaged by Hybrids/Lasers used on ships with a single damage bonus and supporting tanking/cap/whatever bonus.
YES but your weapons DONT use capacitor at ALL!!!!!! never forget that
Which is fine since Minmatar ships have the worst capacitor, lowest DPS and worst tanks out of all races. They are prevalent in PvP due to their speed and agility.
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2008.01.30 22:48:00 -
[167]
As a caldari pilot, I think these changes are trash.
The way I see it, you're making shield tanking in pvp a less viable option as your solution. Sure, lasers will be better, but you're ******* with the rest of the pvp dynamics to do this.
Garbage
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Naim Stargazer
The Singularity Project Rare Faction
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Posted - 2008.01.30 22:49:00 -
[168]
Finally. A decent change. It seems much more sensible than simply boosting just Amarr, or even changing ship bonuses.
However, it does seem that the Amarr ideology of tank'n'gank is somewhat outdated. The problem stems from the fact that tank'n'gank is a staple. Everyone needs to be able to do it, and be competitive at it.
This means that while Amarr are restricted to it like a racial (factional?) trait, other factions need to be able to do it equally as well (if they choose) while still retaining their own racial traits.
This change might bring EM damage (and thus Amarr given their damage type options) more inline with necessary damage output, but at its heart Amarr need one of two things:
1) Excel at tank'n'gank (to be the definitive word, as this is their racial trait) or 2) An additional trait (such as Caldari and EW, or Minnie's and speed/radius/flexibility)
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.01.30 23:00:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
Originally by: Caligulus Raven base resistances
- Before changes
Shields EM - 0%, Exp - 60%, Kin - 40%, Therm - 20% Armor EM - 60%, Exp - 10%, Kin - 25%, Therm - 45%
- After changes
Shields EM - 0%, Exp - 50%, Kin - 40%, Therm - 20% Armor EM - 50%, Exp - 10%, Kin - 25%, Therm - 45%
I fail to see how modifying the explosive damage resistance on the raven increases Amarr damage.
We have to maintain a balance between shield tanking and armor tanking. Only taking away resistances from the armor would tip the scale quite a bit and removing 10% from Explosive resistance on shields seems the logical thing to do.
I just don't understand : You remove 10% to EM AND remove 10% to Exp. It's not an Amarr boost, it's an Amarr/Minnie boost, no ?
no it depend what your tanking.
shield or armor.
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Wizzkidy
Demonic Retribution Pure.
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Posted - 2008.01.30 23:01:00 -
[170]
So you have decided to AT LEAST do something, well it was a long time coming!!!
Anyway this is a step in the right direction yet you are too panzy to commit to any REAL changes, I mean over all this change is tiny and although as I said a step in the right direction, cap usage is a problem.
Having a bonus that "reduces cap usage" is silly! how can you even call that a bonus its something u NEED to stay alive.
Unfortunatly this change will not bring me back to the game, until you commit yourself to some decent changes
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General StarScream
Borg Collective hive mind
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Posted - 2008.01.30 23:03:00 -
[171]
Well after some testing on the test server, the 10% fix seems to be a good option. even so but alot of the things mr Zulu said could make amarr to powerfull. like Cladri is.
but i guees you really need to skill for all races in eve.
SO maybe just cut down on the skill time, or make the diffrent skills to bs, more like t2.
like you have Amarr spec wich is needed to lvl 1-5 depending on wich ship you want, and you only need to train Cruiser to lvl5 once, then skill the diffrent races spec to be able to use there ships.
i think this would be better for people since we wont feel like we wasted 2 years skilling time when you change something.
Please resize signature to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Vrabac
Amarr BALKAN EXPRESS
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Posted - 2008.01.30 23:04:00 -
[172]
Opened the blog full of hope, got greatly dissapointed...
I never ever had issues with damage as amarr. I'm always or almost always on top of killmails. Was hoping to see something about tracking disruptors and the way scripts ruined them, something about 80% of amarr t1 and 50% of t2 ships being utterly useless (as individual ships, not because of bloody EM dmg they do), about amarr recons... nothing. I don't think this will accomplish anything really. Amarr will suffer same as everyone else with resist reduction, just the same as they suffered after the fabled eanm nerf after which they became that one race that cant fit eanm any more, unlike the others who actually have cpu, thus becoming victims of their own "buff".
EM drones dont have the problem of doing EM damage, but the problem of doing so little of it. They are useless because of their unimaginably pathetic damage multiplier.
EM not being ideal against armor tanks? Bu-hu, big deal. Explosive isn't ideal against shield omnitank, kinetic either. Isn't that the point of having different damage types? To have diversity? Bu-hu the ohter guy has eanm and dc well guess what I've got plates and heatsinks and he still dies and i'm still top damage dealer. Also as you said Amarr sit there and hope god is on their side: they are if I understood correctly the "if brute force doesnt solve your problem, youre not using enough of it" race. His EM resist is high? Do more EM. So, how about leaving that as it is?
Please redirect the issue from EM damge to individual ships. Curse, pilgrim, sentinel, zealot, prophecy, omen, apocalypse, maller, arbitrator, work on them, they all suck not because of EM damage but becauses they simply suck as such.
Also, shouldnt the core of the problem be in the fact, that was mentioned in blog, that armor tank is so much more popular than shield in the first place? Maybe do something in that direction? Minmatar and Caldari as shield tanking races and Amarr and Gallente as armor should be the case and everything would be fine, unfortunately Minmatars are most of the time armor tankers just the same, despite the starting skillset their military characters get.
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Confessor
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.01.30 23:05:00 -
[173]
Fix the Pilgrim for F...'s sake. I dunno, the empire sales orders for pilgrims should be enough to wake up ccp.
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TigerWoman
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Posted - 2008.01.30 23:08:00 -
[174]
Edited by: TigerWoman on 30/01/2008 23:08:02 somehow i have the feeling that this is all we will get. here is your peanut! now be silent for a year please!
this change is not enough at all since it doesn't even touch the mayor issues.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.01.30 23:12:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Vrabac
Please redirect the issue from EM damge to individual ships. Curse, pilgrim, sentinel, zealot, prophecy, omen, apocalypse, maller, arbitrator, work on them, they all suck not because of EM damage but becauses they simply suck as such.
Did you read the whole blog? There is another blog coming with changes to the broken amarr ships that you mention.
This change is good because there might be a reason to fit a maller with lasers eventhough it doesnt have a damage bonus.
Unbonused lasers should be inline with unbonused hybrid and projectiles. You get different drawbacks/advantages but one of them (like the laser) shouldnt suck so badly so that amarr ships start fitting other racial guns and need to train for them to use a crap ship. Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II |
Takeshi Yamato
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Posted - 2008.01.30 23:13:00 -
[176]
Edited by: Takeshi Yamato on 30/01/2008 23:13:31 To be honest the changes to base armor and shield resistances will benefit Minmatar more than Amarr.
EMP ammo will hit harder on both shields and armor. T2 projectile ammo will hit harder on shields.
Lasers will just hit harder on armor.
Sorry, but there simply is no way to correctly adress this issue other than changing the laser damage types, anything else will affect other things than lasers as well.
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Shaitis
Caldari Four Rings Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.30 23:15:00 -
[177]
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
Every race has "its" damage type. For Amarr that's EM. It just wouldn't make much sense to effectively remove one damage type from the game instead of trying to make it useful again. Also, what would then happen to EM drones and EM missiles?
Well, I dont fly Amarr but died to amarr ships many times and I dont think nerfing other ships to boost amarr is good idea, it will just make us die more often and faster to this matari fast hitting uncatchable speeedtanking ships. You should rather think about boosting damage output for Amarr even tho it will be also EM. Just add one more damage type to lasers/Amarr Drones (thermal - obviously) and everything will be fine. "What is funnier ? 20 Matari slaves pinned to one tree or 1 Matari slave pinned to 20 trees ?" |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2008.01.30 23:19:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Goumindong No, it does have a direct impact on the effectiveness of lasers, it just doesnt necessarily have the right impact on the effectiveness of lasers.
There is no way you could lower EM resists on ships and not have an impact on the effectiveness of lasers.
I was talking about lowering explosive resists on shields, not lowering EM resists on armour, though I appreciate that there was a slight ambiguity in what I wrote - I suppose you thought I meant to say that reducing EM resists wouldn't improve lasers.
I don't think there's any need to make shield tanking any more difficult than it already is. If there is, it's a separate problem. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Flamewave
Contempt.
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Posted - 2008.01.30 23:20:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Bane Glorious Edited by: Bane Glorious on 30/01/2008 18:59:12 Would it be possible to consider reducing EM and maybe EXP resistances on NPC pirates as well? Nearly 3/4 of EVE has rats that have high EM resistances, which makes making money as a new Amarr player difficult and drives people to cross-train for a Dominix or Raven.
EVE would be more interesting if there were more options for NPCer, and more variety of targets for pirates that hunt NPCers.
I completely agree with this. Missions or 0.0 ratting for Amarr players is a nightmare compared to other races. __________
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agent apple
Spartan Industries Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.30 23:22:00 -
[180]
Ill take some EM resists on T2 caldari ships (considering theyre the shield tanking masters lol)
and while your at it ill take crystals changed to HP increase with recharge reduction to give the same effect as slaves
Then they're might be a reason to not armour tank ravens, cheers
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