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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Nofonno
Amarr Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.01.31 11:58:00 -
[361]
The blog was interesting to read, more so were the player replies.
First, I'll tend to the player replies that ditch the proposed change and/or whine: Imagine you're visiting a physician with an apparent problem with your hand (shaking and twitching). S/he examines you and gives you a dietary advice, plus some vitamins. Will you go shouting at your physician that s/he failed to do something about your twitching hand? Think again -- s/he surely has got more information about how a body works, may (and will) notice things you won't, because you don't see them as relevant (think along House M.D. TV show). The same is true about CCP and you. They got immense stores of data, way beyond your individual experience.
Now... You can either trust your physician or don't. Wait for the treatment to work its charm. If you're not feeling better, say it. Say it clearly and precisely. If you're then still not feeling better (remember, everything takes time, Rome wasn't built in a day), change your physician. You've always got a choice.
Second, to the Amarr boost. I frankly do not know. I'm reserving my judgement until I test it on SiSi with my mates. Since I don't know what is next, I will withold any flames and bile, too. There's just one question that lies still unattended by either this blog or other official CCP sources:
We're still led to believe that Amarr are the capacitor race, yet we do not see them excell in any way -- our weapons are most cap intensive, our cap recharges are nothing special... The question, doctor, is:
Will you address directly the capacitor issues?
A scientist must be an optimist at heart - to have the strength to rally against a chorus of voices saying "it cannot be done". |
Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.01.31 11:59:00 -
[362]
Edited by: Shadowsword on 31/01/2008 11:59:21
CCP, while you're messing around with the base resists, it might be a good idea to put the racial base T1 resist bonus for caldari and minmatar ships on their shields, not their armor.
------------------------------------------
What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs. |
Jiks
Caldari Prophets of Doom
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:03:00 -
[363]
Edited by: Jiks on 31/01/2008 12:04:06 Again, yet again, the solution is a blanket nerf rather than specific actions that address the real problems.
I don't fly Amarr but anyone can see that race has issues, namely lack of damage type flexibility and fitting issues ... yes I know we are promised other stuff later but what we have here doesn't help.
Broad changes always have many unexpected affects ... some of the more obvious ones are probably - greater incentive to avoid NPC missions in Amarr or Minmatar space as kin and therm resists are not being reduced; Gallante being hurt as they cannot vary main damage output any more than Amarr can. I don't fly Gallante either but those guys have had enough of a kicking of late surely?
I don't think this Zuluism is as bad as the earlier carrier logistics or dictor survivability nerfs but again doesn't help the problem and just smacks of nerfbat waving as the only action.
Jiks
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Viktor VonCarstein
Amarr Phoenix Industries Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:04:00 -
[364]
I am totally Amarr spec I have been since I started playing the game 3 years or so ago. I do not fly any other races ships.
I must admit I am surprised you went for a change that affects every other ship and race in the game. Surely that in itself opens a can of worms.
I would have thought that by changing individual ships first would be the way forward as it has less knock on effects that may not be obvious at first.
As an Amarr dedicated player I have always known that shields in general go donw fast but I am gonna need some time hacking through the armour. There is no issue with this.
The issue comes when I run out of cap long before I have broken through the armour, even with max cap skills, level 5 ship skills controlled bursts level 5. Cap is the real issue here and only on the laser turret ships.
I am an advocater of reducing cap use on lasers and removing the Ship Skill bonus for laser cap reduction and replacing it with something that increases damage, tank, range or tracking.
I understand what you you are trying to do with the EM problem which to be honest seems more focussed on em missiles and drones. It will not solve these problems in my opinion.
EM missiles are always unlikely to be the first choice in PvP because most common missile ships have a Kinetic bonus. Those that don't will still normally choose Kinetic or Thermal as EM and EXP will still be high on their respective tanks. Obviously unless you know exactly what you will be fighting.
The situation with drones is similar to that of the missiles but is further aggravated by differences in other attributes which simply make the Galllente or Minmatar drones more preferable in PvP. Even if you make all drones the same with differing damage types the problems will remain the same as the missiles. Obviously unless you know exactly what you will be fighting.
PVE missiles and drones are used as appropriate and is less of a problem. However reducing resistances may prove to have adverse affects on the difficulty of some missions has this also been tested. (I don't know)
Summary:
I think you have made the wrong choice starting with such a broad change that affects all ships and races.
I would have started with individual ship changes first and see how that pans out.
EM Drones and Missile usage will not drastically change.
Cap and Powergrid issues are higher priority problems for Amarr in my view. (Maybe we will see this altered with the ship revisions to come so we will see).
PS. I feel sorry for Zulupark he seems to be the one who has to post all the controversial Blogs as I am sure that there are numerous people behind this and the other ones.)
Phoenix Industries A Unique collection of Resource Links for Eve Online can be found here currently totalling over 120. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:06:00 -
[365]
From the devblog, "However we don't want to change too much in one go so we're trying to pace ourselves and spread the changes over more than one patch."
So why are you guys changing a variable that will impact much more than a simple change to crystal consumption of cap or reducing PG requirements of some guns? Altering something that will have a large impact is bad trouble shooting methodology - start with the small things and work your way to the end goal, not the other way around.
The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
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midge Mo'yb
R.U.S.T. Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:06:00 -
[366]
Originally by: LordVodka Edited by: LordVodka on 30/01/2008 19:31:39
Originally by: Rells
Originally by: Tempest Kane Guys, you seem to be missing the point a bit.
Its not so much the DPS of amarr thats the problem. Its the lack of cap to sustain the weapons even with max level 5 cap & weapon skills.
You need to increase Amarr base capacitor on all ships that use turrets.
ABSOLUTELY! Now how do we get CCP to realize what every single Amarr pilot knows? Any suggestions?
-- Rells
/Signed
A 10% amarr capacitor boost, or just a reduction in Energy Turret cap use would work so many wonders!
agreed, to run a ful lrack of guns/tank on abaddon you need rigs and all your mids on cap recharge duty, and probably some CPR in the lows...
would be a welcome change. i may actually get some free med slots to play with :o
-----------------------------------------------
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Shevar
Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:09:00 -
[367]
Originally by: Ancy Denaries
I simply can't believe the stupidity boasted in this thread. Seriously, didn't you READ the dev blog? The ships ARE going to get fixed. Both fitting and cap wise. WTF is so hard with actually READING what he wrote instead of just whining?
As much as I hate that jojo dude, you are just plain lying now.
Quote: # Some ships could need lovin' # Cap usage on Energy Weapons may be too high in some cases # Fitting requirements on some Energy Weapons need adjusting # Base EM resistances on armor are very high
Where does it say ships NEED lovin' and WILL be adjusted?
Where does it say cap useage IS to high and WILL be adjusted?
I'm sorry but "maybe to high in some cases", is something entirely diffrent as saying that there are problems and will be fixed as you claim. The only thing he says is that EM resistances are very high on armor, the rest are maybe's and perhaps... --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs |
Xanos Blackpaw
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:09:00 -
[368]
actuly i think zulupark actuly play the game. he just fly mattar ships...
Playing minmatar is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi". |
Nathaniel Hall
Caldari Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:11:00 -
[369]
Originally by: Viktor VonCarstein I am totally Amarr spec I have been since I started playing the game 3 years or so ago. I do not fly any other races ships.
I must admit I am surprised you went for a change that affects every other ship and race in the game. Surely that in itself opens a can of worms.
I would have thought that by changing individual ships first would be the way forward as it has less knock on effects that may not be obvious at first.
As an Amarr dedicated player I have always known that shields in general go donw fast but I am gonna need some time hacking through the armour. There is no issue with this.
The issue comes when I run out of cap long before I have broken through the armour, even with max cap skills, level 5 ship skills controlled bursts level 5. Cap is the real issue here and only on the laser turret ships.
I am an advocater of reducing cap use on lasers and removing the Ship Skill bonus for laser cap reduction and replacing it with something that increases damage, tank, range or tracking.
I understand what you you are trying to do with the EM problem which to be honest seems more focussed on em missiles and drones. It will not solve these problems in my opinion.
EM missiles are always unlikely to be the first choice in PvP because most common missile ships have a Kinetic bonus. Those that don't will still normally choose Kinetic or Thermal as EM and EXP will still be high on their respective tanks. Obviously unless you know exactly what you will be fighting.
The situation with drones is similar to that of the missiles but is further aggravated by differences in other attributes which simply make the Galllente or Minmatar drones more preferable in PvP. Even if you make all drones the same with differing damage types the problems will remain the same as the missiles. Obviously unless you know exactly what you will be fighting.
PVE missiles and drones are used as appropriate and is less of a problem. However reducing resistances may prove to have adverse affects on the difficulty of some missions has this also been tested. (I don't know)
Summary:
I think you have made the wrong choice starting with such a broad change that affects all ships and races.
I would have started with individual ship changes first and see how that pans out.
EM Drones and Missile usage will not drastically change.
Cap and Powergrid issues are higher priority problems for Amarr in my view. (Maybe we will see this altered with the ship revisions to come so we will see).
PS. I feel sorry for Zulupark he seems to be the one who has to post all the controversial Blogs as I am sure that there are numerous people behind this and the other ones.)
Signed
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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:12:00 -
[370]
M R - Z U L U
Amarr players seem happy that you are taking seriously care about Amarr. I'm sure the ship review will be carefull and supply Amarr with some easier fittings and some versatility.
The solution to EM damage however is something you should really really look into.
I can understand dropping EM resist on armor might seem very reasonable - but if you absolutely have to nerf the shieldtanks (which in advance isn't used much in pvp) I believe 10% is a bit over the edge. Even if we have shield recharge I'd consider testing with only a 5%-point reduction... If anything shield tankers could need some shield regeneration to help compensate for the sudden lack of medslots when bringing a shield tanking ship into PvP.
Shield tanking doesn't need a nerf - Shield tankers gets whacked by amarr and minmatar already...
The only people enjoying the shield nerf is minmatar and explosive shield drone users (woohoo warriors)
I was a strong believer CCP wanted to enforce the use of shield tanks for PvP. The Siege and HAM being a decent reason for bringing caldari ships into play. Also the choice to give at least some Minmatar ships Shield bonus was also a good indicative.
- I'm a nice guy!!
But hook me up with some pew pew, because I'm really bored... |
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Shevar
Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:15:00 -
[371]
Originally by: Nofonno The blog was interesting to read, more so were the player replies.
First, I'll tend to the player replies that ditch the proposed change and/or whine: Imagine you're visiting a physician with an apparent problem with your hand (shaking and twitching). S/he examines you and gives you a dietary advice, plus some vitamins. Will you go shouting at your physician that s/he failed to do something about your twitching hand? Think again -- s/he surely has got more information about how a body works, may (and will) notice things you won't, because you don't see them as relevant (think along House M.D. TV show). The same is true about CCP and you. They got immense stores of data, way beyond your individual experience.
Now... You can either trust your physician or don't. Wait for the treatment to work its charm. If you're not feeling better, say it. Say it clearly and precisely. If you're then still not feeling better (remember, everything takes time, Rome wasn't built in a day), change your physician. You've always got a choice.
Second, to the Amarr boost. I frankly do not know. I'm reserving my judgement until I test it on SiSi with my mates. Since I don't know what is next, I will withold any flames and bile, too. There's just one question that lies still unattended by either this blog or other official CCP sources:
We're still led to believe that Amarr are the capacitor race, yet we do not see them excell in any way -- our weapons are most cap intensive, our cap recharges are nothing special... The question, doctor, is:
Will you address directly the capacitor issues?
A better anology would be you goto a doctor with 1 hand cut of and bleeding and 1 hand shaking. And then the doctor prescribes some vitamins for the shaking hand and saying PERHAPS you can come back in a few months to have that hand that is cut of to be fixed.
The issues with Amarr are primarly cap problems and thus tank problems, total lack of distinction in the t1 shiplines (eg every ship has 1 role a turret boat, besides the inquistor and arbi), horrible fitting issues. After these problems comes the fact that effective DPS of amarr is indeed lower but quite frankly it isn't the biggest issue. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs |
DDemon
The Order of Chivalry Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:18:00 -
[372]
CCP Zulupark, play this game before changing it please.....
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DiaBlo UK
North Siders Fang Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:23:00 -
[373]
I need to go play wit hthe ships a bit, but what i see here from the info given, is that out of all this, caldari will be nerf'd the most, and minmatar boosted the most. IMO, the order of preferance for PvP ships atm is, min, gal, cald, amarr. There are a number of resons for this, but basically it comes down to cal being unable to form a decent tank while still having room for EW. Also the cald sniper will suffer because all other races will be getting a bonues to damage, where hybrids will not. Yes i know gal use hybrids too, but alot of their bonuses are to drones anyway, so its not a major effect. How often do you see a shield tank with 92%+ resist to exp, not very often, not if you want said ship to do anything else but sit there and get shot at. The only problem with resist is the armor and the EM resists, and this mainly on the minnie ships. I understand why you think armor needs the extra 10% resist to its tank, but i forward that having the base resists between shield and armor equal still leaves things balanced as armor will now suffer the same difficultiesd in fitting shields do. They have to make a trade off to whether they want that extra damage mod or the extra tank mod. With shields, you don't have that option, you either don't fit any EW/sensor boosts, or you tank. the ships hit the hardest by this change, Rokh, Eagle, Harpy, moa and feox (which sucks anyway).
What i think would be best for you to do now CCP. is implement the other changes to armarr first, and then if this still presents a problem, come back to it. I understand your need not to do too many changes at once. So start somewhere else. Come back here if things are still unbalanced.
---sig---nerf---starts---here--- |
Wizzkidy
Demonic Retribution Pure.
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:26:00 -
[374]
Zulu,
I have tested this change yet there isn't much to test concidering little has changed, I setup a abaddon myself with a mega pulse setup web/scream cap boosters.
Went to FFA one, started shooting a domi lost cap in 2 minutes considering i was being neuted (even with cap boosters) and popped.
The damage I was doing was hardly any differant
Please tell me the best way to test this change because I can see NO change thats helping amarr.
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Ancy Denaries
Caldari Under Heavy Fire
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:27:00 -
[375]
Originally by: Viktor VonCarstein I am totally Amarr spec I have been since I started playing the game 3 years or so ago. I do not fly any other races ships.
I must admit I am surprised you went for a change that affects every other ship and race in the game. Surely that in itself opens a can of worms.
I would have thought that by changing individual ships first would be the way forward as it has less knock on effects that may not be obvious at first.
As an Amarr dedicated player I have always known that shields in general go donw fast but I am gonna need some time hacking through the armour. There is no issue with this.
The issue comes when I run out of cap long before I have broken through the armour, even with max cap skills, level 5 ship skills controlled bursts level 5. Cap is the real issue here and only on the laser turret ships.
I am an advocater of reducing cap use on lasers and removing the Ship Skill bonus for laser cap reduction and replacing it with something that increases damage, tank, range or tracking.
I understand what you you are trying to do with the EM problem which to be honest seems more focussed on em missiles and drones. It will not solve these problems in my opinion.
EM missiles are always unlikely to be the first choice in PvP because most common missile ships have a Kinetic bonus. Those that don't will still normally choose Kinetic or Thermal as EM and EXP will still be high on their respective tanks. Obviously unless you know exactly what you will be fighting.
The situation with drones is similar to that of the missiles but is further aggravated by differences in other attributes which simply make the Galllente or Minmatar drones more preferable in PvP. Even if you make all drones the same with differing damage types the problems will remain the same as the missiles. Obviously unless you know exactly what you will be fighting.
PVE missiles and drones are used as appropriate and is less of a problem. However reducing resistances may prove to have adverse affects on the difficulty of some missions has this also been tested. (I don't know)
Summary:
I think you have made the wrong choice starting with such a broad change that affects all ships and races.
I would have started with individual ship changes first and see how that pans out.
EM Drones and Missile usage will not drastically change.
Cap and Powergrid issues are higher priority problems for Amarr in my view. (Maybe we will see this altered with the ship revisions to come so we will see).
PS. I feel sorry for Zulupark he seems to be the one who has to post all the controversial Blogs as I am sure that there are numerous people behind this and the other ones.)
THIS is disagreement without whining. Good job fella! I wish everyone (including myself) could be as levelheaded as you.
Originally by: "GM Tacgnol" Oveur descended from the heavens (also known as the second floor) and beat us all with his nerfbat.
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Ancy Denaries
Caldari Under Heavy Fire
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:29:00 -
[376]
Originally by: Shevar
Originally by: Ancy Denaries
I simply can't believe the stupidity boasted in this thread. Seriously, didn't you READ the dev blog? The ships ARE going to get fixed. Both fitting and cap wise. WTF is so hard with actually READING what he wrote instead of just whining?
As much as I hate that jojo dude, you are just plain lying now.
Quote: # Some ships could need lovin' # Cap usage on Energy Weapons may be too high in some cases # Fitting requirements on some Energy Weapons need adjusting # Base EM resistances on armor are very high
Where does it say ships NEED lovin' and WILL be adjusted?
Where does it say cap useage IS to high and WILL be adjusted?
I'm sorry but "maybe to high in some cases", is something entirely diffrent as saying that there are problems and will be fixed as you claim. The only thing he says is that EM resistances are very high on armor, the rest are maybe's and perhaps...
Right, got me there, I admit my error and I agree it isn't set in stone, but it is mentioned and as such I find it silly to whine about it.
Originally by: "GM Tacgnol" Oveur descended from the heavens (also known as the second floor) and beat us all with his nerfbat.
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Miklas Laces
A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:29:00 -
[377]
-10% em armor ? ok but bring back EANM T2 to 30ft CPU usage then
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Anglo
Minmatar Astral Mexicans
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:30:00 -
[378]
use cap boosters as amarr lads..
make the b00st so u can fit more heatsinks on amarr race ships. and lets start kill again.. an easy thing to do... no need to fix any sort of res...
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pershphanie
Deadly Addiction
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:33:00 -
[379]
Edited by: pershphanie on 31/01/2008 12:39:59
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
He did it because tweaking ships and guns doesn't bring about long term balance. It perpetuates FOTM. If there are any actual issues with Amarr ships and weapons, they are comparable in severity to, or inferior in severity to the issues present with ships and weapons from all other races.
You can't be serious. Ever thought to yourself "gee, i wish i had an apoc right now"? Yeah, me either.
The only amarr ships worth a damn damage wise (the dmg/rof bonus amarr ships) have such serious cap issues that you can't get them to do anything but fire their guns. That would be fine if lasers were high dmg weapons, but they arent. And then take ships like the apoc. It gives you 2 cap bonuses. You still need to fit multiple cap mods on your ship if you want to do something crazy like use guns AND a single armor rep. Honor tanking isn't as much fun as people make it out to be.
So tell me. What other race does it take two bonuses just to work the weapon systems?
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Commander Awkward
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:34:00 -
[380]
Edited by: Commander Awkward on 31/01/2008 12:34:13
Originally by: Viktor VonCarstein I am totally Amarr spec I have been since I started playing the game 3 years or so ago. I do not fly any other races ships.
I must admit I am surprised you went for a change that affects every other ship and race in the game. Surely that in itself opens a can of worms.
I would have thought that by changing individual ships first would be the way forward as it has less knock on effects that may not be obvious at first.
As an Amarr dedicated player I have always known that shields in general go donw fast but I am gonna need some time hacking through the armour. There is no issue with this.
The issue comes when I run out of cap long before I have broken through the armour, even with max cap skills, level 5 ship skills controlled bursts level 5. Cap is the real issue here and only on the laser turret ships.
I am an advocater of reducing cap use on lasers and removing the Ship Skill bonus for laser cap reduction and replacing it with something that increases damage, tank, range or tracking.
I understand what you you are trying to do with the EM problem which to be honest seems more focussed on em missiles and drones. It will not solve these problems in my opinion.
EM missiles are always unlikely to be the first choice in PvP because most common missile ships have a Kinetic bonus. Those that don't will still normally choose Kinetic or Thermal as EM and EXP will still be high on their respective tanks. Obviously unless you know exactly what you will be fighting.
The situation with drones is similar to that of the missiles but is further aggravated by differences in other attributes which simply make the Galllente or Minmatar drones more preferable in PvP. Even if you make all drones the same with differing damage types the problems will remain the same as the missiles. Obviously unless you know exactly what you will be fighting.
PVE missiles and drones are used as appropriate and is less of a problem. However reducing resistances may prove to have adverse affects on the difficulty of some missions has this also been tested. (I don't know)
Summary:
I think you have made the wrong choice starting with such a broad change that affects all ships and races.
I would have started with individual ship changes first and see how that pans out.
EM Drones and Missile usage will not drastically change.
Cap and Powergrid issues are higher priority problems for Amarr in my view. (Maybe we will see this altered with the ship revisions to come so we will see).
PS. I feel sorry for Zulupark he seems to be the one who has to post all the controversial Blogs as I am sure that there are numerous people behind this and the other ones.)
This is a very sensible post. Especially the highlighted part.
Originally by: CCP Zulupark Introduce Explosive damage crystals
Lasers that do explosive? Sound really weird IMHO. What about a high dmg/low range 100% therm crystal?
Originally by: CCP Zulupark Amarr need more midslots. Need more midslots to fit Ewar/tackling gear
And shield tankers don't? Develop a system with highslot scramblers/webs. Problem solved. More people will fly shield tanked ships means more shields for amarr lasers to fry.
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pershphanie
Deadly Addiction
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:36:00 -
[381]
Edited by: pershphanie on 31/01/2008 12:37:17
Originally by: Anglo use cap boosters as amarr lads..
Yeah. We get that. thx. Running cap boosters AND a few cap relays/cap rechargers amarr still have cap issues.
All other races can chose if they want to use one or the other. When you have to use both, it's something that needs fixing.
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Grytok
moon7empler Ev0ke
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:38:00 -
[382]
I just compared the damage distribution of Multifrequency and EMP with the new resistances and guess what...
Multifrequency L: EM 28, Thermal 20 EMP L: EM 20, Kinetic 8, Explosive 16
Base Shield Damage (atm) Multifrequency L: 44 EMP L: 31,2
Base Shield Damage (after) Multifrequency L: 44 EMP L: 32,8 (5% increased)
Base Armor Damage (atm) Multifrequency L: 24,2 EMP L: 28,4
Base Armor Damage (after) Multifrequency L: 27 (11,5% increased) EMP L: 30,4 (7% increased)
So we increase the damage for shortest range crystals by 11.5% and the damage for shortest range projectiles by 12% overall.
MinMatar get's 0,5% more damageboost by this change then Amarr gets "oomph".
You really don't know what you're doing there CCP, do you? .
CCP gave us shiny new graphics. Too bad they removed Anti Aliasing for me :\ |
PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:40:00 -
[383]
Edited by: PeacefullNub on 31/01/2008 12:41:05 CCP Zulupark here 2 things that you can fix right now without extra testing and data analisis:
1) Fix laser reload jamming bug (do you know what it is?) - give us ability to change crystalls witout 2-3 reloads on single turret
2) Add "reload all <ammo type>" option for all turrets and missiles - give us ability to use fast ammo switchind on ships bigger than frigat.
All races will benefit from this, and amarr players will have some working tactics in combat
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Shevar
Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:41:00 -
[384]
Originally by: Ancy Denaries Right, got me there, I admit my error and I agree it isn't set in stone, but it is mentioned and as such I find it silly to whine about it.
Amarr being "weak" because of cap issues and fitting requirements has been acknowledged by the devs since, like, euhm, 3 years now (back when interceptors where hot spanking new!)?
Hence I find it rather acceptable to whine about the fact amarr is still the weakest race in general around. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs |
Smertrios
Amarr Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:42:00 -
[385]
I donÆt think is a good solution to the ôproblemsö of Amarr laser boats.
First off, from my experience of flying with some very good Amarr pilots I really canÆt see a problem with the damage output of lasers. In these days of EFT figures itÆs very easy to forget that lasers get a significant dps increase because they do not have to reload during combat. They also have very good tracking which results in consistent, decent hits on a target. Amarr have some of the nastiest damage dealers in game, 2 of their BS can easily put out over 1000 dps and the absolution and zealot are also quite formidable in their damage output.
However that aside, you say the problem stems from the high natural resistances of armour to em damage. This may be the case on paper but the reality is that with omni armour tanks em is often one of the lower resistances. People tend to harden the other 3 damage types and just leave the em as its base and this means the em resistance on a well-tanked armour boat is very comparable to the other damage types.
Using Minmatar T2 armour resists in a comparison does not work either, as very few Minmatar T2 ships are ever armour tanked (Muminn and Wolf are really it)
Leaving the armour argument and looking and what Amarr is REALLY good at is hitting shields. By far the most common race is Caldari and Caldari have a serious weakness against lasers. We are seeing more and more Caldari ships used in pvp and really against shields lasers have no compare.
Now your changes do not fix any perceived problem with lasers on armour as they boost all races damage, particularly Minmatar. Lowing resistances is also a step backwards from the whole initiative to increase the length of a fight by giving us so many more hit point. In effect you are making omni armour tanks that much more difficult to balance (particularly in light of changes to CPU on EANM) and therefore effectively reducing the positive effects on fights of your hit point buff.
So in summary of my thoughts, I donÆt see the problems with Amarr being damage in any way whatsoever. There may certainly be fitting issues and balancing needed of cap use but Amarr not being able to do enough damage is simply not true. If their needs to be a buff in laser damage then reducing the tank of all ships is not the answer and certainly not when the biggest benefactor of the change will be a Minmatar pilot.
Oh btw I fly Minmatar so its really in my favour to keep this change but I have seen myself how well balanced all the races are in pvp and I think this is unnecessary and potentially damaging, hence I felt I had to give my 2 cents.
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Commander Awkward
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:43:00 -
[386]
Originally by: PeacefullNub
Sensible stuff about reloading
What about a skill that lowers reloading times as well? Just a thought.
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XXJackXX
Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:43:00 -
[387]
Lets see amarr is worst race in this game and ccp thinging to fix this problem.And this is how it is.
-Give 3rd damage type to lasers.Hmm then only hybrit turrets left that cant hit different then 2 damage types.I guess we need a balance here.
-Lets give more damage to amarr and drop resistance from other races.On shield only some t2 ships got EM resistance but others got 0% resistance.And at armor yes EM resistance kinda high but think this how many people fits armor EM hardeners or rigs to armor i dont think some one gonna waste a low slot for this unless you are ratting.So at armor Em resistance most of the times are base resistance maybe EANM or DCU give little more.And lets drop this resistance also.
-Amarr dont got enough damage and lets change the cap reduction bonus to damage bonus on ships.Yes cap will be a issue on amarr ships but when you drop resistance from all races and give more damage and 3rd damage type to laser you will be not having a cap problem target ship will die before you run out of cap or cap boosters.
-Amarr got enough high and low slots hmm there is something missing lets put some med slots also and give able to do tank damage and tackle together.If u gonna drop resistance and you gonna make shield tank hard give some med slots to caldari and then think giving more med slots to other races.
-Gang mega is too scary nothing can tank that lots of people said that.And see the gang geddon maybe some of you gonna remember old gang geddon 10secs to any bs.Hey it is gonna be back yes you gonna have a cap issue maybe so fit cap boosters.
-I'm personalt using gallente and caldari race and having some fitting problem and i know amarr having a fitting problem also but they have enough slots to fix that and what is about gallente we have cpu and pg problem.
ok if you gonna do that it is a game but if you are asking my personal thinks fix lag first then add more new things or change
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AFTRUNX
Human Liberty Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:45:00 -
[388]
Originally by: Grytok I just compared the damage distribution of Multifrequency and EMP with the new resistances and guess what...
Multifrequency L: EM 28, Thermal 20 EMP L: EM 20, Kinetic 8, Explosive 16
Base Shield Damage (atm) Multifrequency L: 44 EMP L: 31,2
Base Shield Damage (after) Multifrequency L: 44 EMP L: 32,8 (5% increased)
Base Armor Damage (atm) Multifrequency L: 24,2 EMP L: 28,4
Base Armor Damage (after) Multifrequency L: 27 (11,5% increased) EMP L: 30,4 (7% increased)
So we increase the damage for shortest range crystals by 11.5% and the damage for shortest range projectiles by 12% overall.
MinMatar get's 0,5% more damageboost by this change then Amarr gets "oomph".
You really don't know what you're doing there CCP, do you?
o/ Signed!
Indirect Minmatar Boost...
Reduce Cap need for guns and add crystals (28Therm 20Em) or only thermal for example.. or also Kinetic Crystal.. Exlo is not really realistic for a Laser i think :) --------------------------------------------
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Gozmoth
Amarr Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:52:00 -
[389]
Originally by: Viktor VonCarstein I am totally Amarr spec I have been since I started playing the game 3 years or so ago. I do not fly any other races ships.
I must admit I am surprised you went for a change that affects every other ship and race in the game. Surely that in itself opens a can of worms.
I would have thought that by changing individual ships first would be the way forward as it has less knock on effects that may not be obvious at first.
As an Amarr dedicated player I have always known that shields in general go donw fast but I am gonna need some time hacking through the armour. There is no issue with this.
The issue comes when I run out of cap long before I have broken through the armour, even with max cap skills, level 5 ship skills controlled bursts level 5. Cap is the real issue here and only on the laser turret ships.
I am an advocater of reducing cap use on lasers and removing the Ship Skill bonus for laser cap reduction and replacing it with something that increases damage, tank, range or tracking.
I understand what you you are trying to do with the EM problem which to be honest seems more focussed on em missiles and drones. It will not solve these problems in my opinion.
EM missiles are always unlikely to be the first choice in PvP because most common missile ships have a Kinetic bonus. Those that don't will still normally choose Kinetic or Thermal as EM and EXP will still be high on their respective tanks. Obviously unless you know exactly what you will be fighting.
The situation with drones is similar to that of the missiles but is further aggravated by differences in other attributes which simply make the Galllente or Minmatar drones more preferable in PvP. Even if you make all drones the same with differing damage types the problems will remain the same as the missiles. Obviously unless you know exactly what you will be fighting.
PVE missiles and drones are used as appropriate and is less of a problem. However reducing resistances may prove to have adverse affects on the difficulty of some missions has this also been tested. (I don't know)
Summary:
I think you have made the wrong choice starting with such a broad change that affects all ships and races.
I would have started with individual ship changes first and see how that pans out.
EM Drones and Missile usage will not drastically change.
Cap and Powergrid issues are higher priority problems for Amarr in my view. (Maybe we will see this altered with the ship revisions to come so we will see).
PS. I feel sorry for Zulupark he seems to be the one who has to post all the controversial Blogs as I am sure that there are numerous people behind this and the other ones.)
That's it !
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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
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Posted - 2008.01.31 12:56:00 -
[390]
Talking about omni-tanks as something to be encouraged makes me a bit ill... really - most armor tankers use them, and maybe THAT is the true problem.
If the shields kept the explosive resists maybe more people would use shield tanks in pvp and lasers would be more usefull... Otherwise welcome to a game where people fit AutoCannons on all ships not having a specific bonus to other types
having the shield recharge as excuse for also taking away shield resist is not thought over well...
BUT people - please bear in mind the Amarr ships will get a little love themself.. The resist balance isn't everything. - I'm a nice guy!!
But hook me up with some pew pew, because I'm really bored... |
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