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Rimhawk
Caldari Vengeance 8 Interceptors
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Posted - 2008.03.01 00:09:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Pantaloon McPants I just think more 0.0 alliances need to stop being so elitist, anyone who cant dedicate every living breathing second of there life in 0.0 to pvp is a waste of space and not wanted. They just need to be a bit more open minded and strike that balance between guys that want to just carebear all day and guys that want to pvp all day, why cant you have both? Maybe the reason is that 0.0 is so small, so every day feels as if the world is caving in and its every man to the front lines. It sucks balls.
I do agree that EVE seems to be a LOT smaller these days. And it's not because I got used to it. And until about 1.5 years ago it still was. But now it just seems way too crowded. I really liked the new drone regions too the first couple of months when they were open, but again those were claimed. Adding a few new 0.0 regions (says FIFTY or so) wouldn't hurt... .
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handbanana
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.03.01 00:11:00 -
[32]
Quote: Alright carebears why aren't you in 0.0? I want to know
Politics...
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Strikeclone
The Steel Ravens
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Posted - 2008.03.01 00:15:00 -
[33]
Carebear is a term for someone playing a massive multiplayer game like a solo game.
Ignorant OP is one of the reasons I stay out of 0.0 these days.
The fact that 0.0 is inhabited by 1001 ******s like him, and their equally ******** "alliances"
Not worth the hassle of breaking gate blobs and warp bubbles to go and earn 20mill and hour ratting when I can make that in 20mins in a single level 4 mission.
Sorry folks but before anyone bores me with "but back in 2003 ccp said they want people to live in 0.0" Eve has changed a bit since then and like it or not there is alot more going for empire than 0.0 as far as most of the player base goes.
They have voted with their feet. Whining about it is pathetic.
Recruitment |
Val Vympel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.01 00:26:00 -
[34]
It has always been my belief that the social structure of EVE resembles a bee colony.
1.Carebears: are the worker bees. 2.PvP'ers: are the soldier bees. 3.Pirates: are the bees from "another" colony. 4.EVE Celebrities: are the drones. 5.CCP: is the queen bee.
In a bee colony every bee has a purpose. Each bee serves the part of the "hive" that it's nature demands.
0.0 space is the core of the hive and this is not the place where the worker bees make the "honey".
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Alora Venoda
Caldari GalTech Giant Space Amoeba
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Posted - 2008.03.01 00:29:00 -
[35]
if we could setup a peaceful environment instead of constant raids and POS wars, perhaps we could get some of that PvE stuff done out there... and the whole part about big greedy alliances claiming huge areas of quality systems, but not allowing anyone to use it while not using it themselves either... yeah.
more needs to be done to enable the serfs to work the land while the feudal lords go about their warmongering.except why pay rent when you can do just about as well in empire? well all those weapons gotta come from somewhere... i wonder what percent of 0.0 war ships and weapons etc is actually produced from 0.0 resources versus hi-sec?
~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless.
Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application. |
Shadow Joy
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Posted - 2008.03.01 00:29:00 -
[36]
Not a carebear - but the reason I'm not in 0.0 is simple. I have a job. I have a family. I can't devote a lot of time to fleet operations.
Even with my limited play time I can find all the fights I want in empire and low sec. Best of all, when I get my arse handed to me I can easily make the money I need to get back into the fight.
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Dynast
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Posted - 2008.03.01 00:54:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Dynast on 01/03/2008 00:55:24 There are definately some good reasons not to go to 0.0, and alliance warfare is the best of them. Long waits for lag-infested non-fights are the sort of thing people should be paid to do, not pay for the privilege of experiencing. Further, the entire Capital Ship situation has made low skilled players increasingly irrelevant over the last couple years. PoS oriented warfare is trash, and frankly I think anyone devoting time to it must be at least a little bit mental. Add on all the other vagaries of 0.0 life, and well.. it's not terribly compelling unless you want more than ISK/hour.
For me, the best parts of 0.0 are the NPC claimed regions with non-conquerable stations. Gatecamps and roving gangs are always a risk, but a worthwhile one if you want the freedom to take what you can hold on your own, attack someone at will if they run their mouth, or even compete industrially in markets with much less competition (albeit, less demand as well).
Personally, I hope that one day most of Jove space opens up as 0.0 space under Jove sovereignty.. that would do a lot to make 0.0 feel bigger and less crowded to me. Until then, there's always Syndicate, Fountain, and the rest.
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chillz
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.03.01 00:58:00 -
[38]
I dunno. Every time I go to 0.0 they kill me because they've not set me blue.
Incentive = 0. Hassle = 10.
Like I want to spend my time playing EVE being your target. ----------------------------------- A gun and a packet of sandwiches.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S Thompson
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Jmanis Catharg
Caldari Stickler inc
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Posted - 2008.03.01 01:05:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 01/03/2008 01:13:39 Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 01/03/2008 01:06:16 Here's why. All you pointed out there was all the nice, cushy non-PvP rewards for it.
The reality?
Get into 0.0 and get told by alliance leaders "You must be here to defend XYZ at hour ABC or you'll be booted from the alliance". OK, so I'm generalising, but 3 out of 3 isn't something to be ignored. Apparently alliance leaders can't understand the concept of "You're the pew pew, i'm the financial support"
EDIT: This in no way reflects the corp's i was part of. They were all good corps.
But for something a little nicer.
Quote:
This means that a system supports 30 active players grinding (not pvp'ing just grinding) 14 hours a week with each player making 280 million a week if there ratting.
I make 2-3 bil a month for about 1 hour a week in my empire ops. Thats not including mission running, which is sporadic for me.
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Burnharder
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Posted - 2008.03.01 01:14:00 -
[40]
Alright, I'll bite. I've never made a dime in 0.0 and I was out there back since CFS days (remember that crazy dream?)... and after that a few others too (on other chars). Whatever I made mining or ratting, I lost in the inevitable fleet fights or ganks. It always seemed to me that the guys doing well in 0.0 were the corp leaders with their hands on the corp wallet - especially when you take taxes into account. Sure this isn't true for all, but I never felt like I was making progress with my character.
The exception to the above was when I was up north but that all ended because that space got taken by another alliance and we all decamped to empire again (same old story). I tried the new drone regions too - put a small refining POS there for a few months - but the pain and sufferring of getting through camps with commodities to run it just wasn't worth the trouble. It was like I didn't have a choice - I had to login to play Eve and spend hours waiting for the right moment to run the gate otherwise someone would pop my POS. Well that felt like work, not like fun.
The trouble with 0.0 is it requires your attention and concentration from the moment you undock to the moment you dock back up again. You never know where the next threat is going to come from because everyone who isn't blue is going to try and kill you. I can't play like that, because I'm up and down from the keyboard for one reason or another constantly dealing with real-life stuff. I think a lot of people prefer the lower cognitive burden of empire to be honest. 0.0 is for hardcore gamers - and I don't mean hardcore PvP'ers, I mean people who have the time and motivation. It's the kind of thing best dipped into and out of, unless you are totally dedicated.
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chillz
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.03.01 01:32:00 -
[41]
The above poster says it all really.
I feel it's mainly down to the fact that 0.0 can be made exclusive by a small number of players restricting entry to a much larger nunber.
But this was argued many time, what 3-4 years ago. CCP in their wisdom decided on introducing 10-20 more routes to 0.0, nothing like the number needed with the much increased player count we have now.
Still, they'll probably give us another 10 entry points when we get to 100k concurrent users.
At least all those 0.0 alliances will be getting richer. I'm just sorry I can't afford to spend 14 hours a day playing games. ----------------------------------- A gun and a packet of sandwiches.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S Thompson
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Mr Azrael
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Posted - 2008.03.01 01:33:00 -
[42]
Read all of the posts and not gonna repeat all the arguments as mine are a mix of what most people already told the OP. Just two things People should stop worrying about how other people play. I'm having fun in empire. You're having fun in 0.0 all is well ( unless you're postig out of frustration and then you need to go play something else )
and as you see that most people like to hang out in empire... expand empire maybe?
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FarScape III
Journey On Squad
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Posted - 2008.03.01 01:37:00 -
[43]
Why waste you isk on some other person blowing it away to PvP?
Most people do not want to mine for someone else to go and PvP. *** |
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.01 02:01:00 -
[44]
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 01/03/2008 02:01:18 Nobody should be forced to be cannon fodder for the 0.0 blob. Ditto losec.
The current asshattery in empire is pathetic.
Although reading anything related to ISK/hour makes me want to barf.
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
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Yllse
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Posted - 2008.03.01 02:01:00 -
[45]
I play for fun and relaxation, if I want to fight with real people I go to a family gathering. 0.0, even under the best conditions is not relaxation.
Also, I play weird hours, never the same from day to day, week to week. Sometimes I only log in to change skills or research jobs for weeks on end. I would make a lousy corp member for any corp that is defending or taking territory. I often have to go afk unexpectedly, again, not much good for holding up my end of any "job."
I do run L4 missions, make enough isk to support my BP acquisition quirk. I trade, I manufacture items I find profitable, I even mine in a badger while working in the background from time-to-time. 0.0 isn't a good place for any of these.
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Alanee'a Unakarakta
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Posted - 2008.03.01 02:03:00 -
[46]
theres nothing desirable in 0.0.
-ala
------------------ - - - -_^
send me eve-related links, and make ISK'ies @
www.unakarakta.info www.3v3-online.com
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Orgos Khenn
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.03.01 02:09:00 -
[47]
To be honest, I only stay in Empire to irritate the people that wish there were more players in 0.0.
It's nothing to do with having no real urge to move ALL of my stuff into space where a random bunch of yarrs can wipe it out if they are bored - and probably will. ---- One day...one day General will be worth reading.
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Frug
Repo Industries R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2008.03.01 02:14:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Orgos Khenn To be honest, I only stay in Empire to irritate the people that wish there were more players in 0.0.
This lol
The answer to "why aren't you in 0.0" is unique to the individual, and also usually quite obvious.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.03.01 02:25:00 -
[49]
I'm not exactly a carebear, but not exactly not one either, anyway à
For me it has less to do with risk/reward and more to do with fun/effort. The fun is not worth the effort to me, and perhaps many others.
Impossible odds - gate camps suck, face it gates suck. See my sig for constructive rant on gates. :)
P.S. How many freaking times do I need to logon to post these days, shesh.
The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
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IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company UnNatural Selection.
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Posted - 2008.03.01 02:44:00 -
[50]
I am kinda sick, so I've been in empire for a few days training to use the zealot....
I SWARE I'm leaving soon, ugh, get off my case!
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.03.01 02:47:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Kestrix I'm currently mining 400 mill units of tritanium, I can do that very nicely in Empire thanks. I make billions here just on veld why should I go to 0.0?
Caause getting a hauler spawn with 25M trit gives you a really good headstart to the day's mining?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
ghost st
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Posted - 2008.03.01 03:00:00 -
[52]
One reason why not alot of 'carbears' come to 0.0 i sbecuase most carebears are industrial not pvp oriented. And most allainces just want to milk the industrials for isk/resources, and the industrialists usually have to pay more to be in an allaince, and are usually the first to be blamed when problems arise.
Also alot of people dont like 0.0 beacuse of the blobs
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Gamesguy
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.01 03:01:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Kestrix I'm currently mining 400 mill units of tritanium, I can do that very nicely in Empire thanks. I make billions here just on veld why should I go to 0.0?
Caause getting a hauler spawn with 25M trit gives you a really good headstart to the day's mining?
25m trit in each wreck, times 5 haulers.
Hauler spawns is pretty much the way to get low ends in 0.0, they occur often and they drop a crapload of mins.
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Gamesguy
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.01 03:02:00 -
[54]
Quote: Get into 0.0 and get told by alliance leaders "You must be here to defend XYZ at hour ABC or you'll be booted from the alliance". OK, so I'm generalising, but 3 out of 3 isn't something to be ignored. Apparently alliance leaders can't understand the concept of "You're the pew pew, i'm the financial support"
In my experience 90% of players that say that are completely and utterly worthless, the only "financial support" they provide is the corp tax on their ratting bounties, which is usually some small amount not worth mentioning.
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Malaan Tabfassh
The Flowing Penguins
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Posted - 2008.03.01 03:12:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Malaan Tabfassh on 01/03/2008 03:12:41 First of all I don't like the word carebear. Implies that I mine all day long and getting scared when a frig turns up on the scanner
Posted this on another thread, so I'll quote myself:
Quote: To the ones who think people just stay in highsec cause it's so carebear friendly:
I'm in a small corp living in empire. We're seven people, two of us playing eve for more than 4 hours a day (including me) and the other 5 are playing less.
Something we found out:
-Flying missions alone is boring as hell. -Flying missions with 2 or more people is too easy, even if it is a lvl 4 mission or using smaller ships. -Mining with some people is ok as long as not done too often. -PvP in lowsec is fun, but lowsec can't keep up with the costs of pvp.
Basically we are sick of highsec and want to move to lowsec or zerospace.
Only thing lowsec has to offer us is pvp, but as mentioned above there is no way to get in the costs if you're interested in using something bigger than a t2 fitted cruiser.
That leads us to 0.0:
With seven people, one hardly at the border to fly an amarr capital, it is hard to find an alliance. But as we want to keep our independence it's no option for us to join a bigger corp. Only choice left would be to rent space from an established alliance ( claiming our own space is not really an option when taking a look at the sovereignty map ):
First we thought, that would be a good idea but with 23/7 camped chokepoints, we found it really hard to bring something else through than some frigs sized vessels with mwds and even then not all of us survived.
Now tell me how to move us seven people to 0.0 without giving up our own corp and having the ability to access markets from time to time.
When it would be possible to move to 0.0 so easy we had moved there already, but honestly we see no chance to do that.
...
EDIT: typo
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Kane Kaldorei
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Posted - 2008.03.01 03:20:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Sarakiel
This means that a system supports 30 active players grinding (not pvp'ing just grinding) 14 hours a week with each player making 280 million a week if there ratting.
ok, so assuming you could actually get 30 active players in each 0,0 system, without them actually shooting each other or being ganked by another corp/alliance
Having 30 players grinding in each 0.0 system for 14 hours a week would not earn them 280 mil each, think about it.... EVE is a very delicate and balanced system, it doesn't need 15-20 people carting millions of units of zydrine and megacyte out daily, prices of the high ends would plummet whilst there would be less people mining the low ends, and so the plucky miner that stayed in safer high sec would reap the profits on the veldspar
Just my 0.02 ISK
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Maor Raor
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Posted - 2008.03.01 03:32:00 -
[57]
I think a better question is why the Gankbears arent in 0.0
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Morfane
The IMorral MAjority
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Posted - 2008.03.01 03:49:00 -
[58]
I believe the reason most people are in high sec is due to economics. The standard model for life in 0.0 is the carebears work to support the pvpers that protect them. A portion of the fruits of the carebears labour must go into defense. The amount that is left over is less (for most of the carebears) than they could make in empire.
This, coupled with mandatory ops and the above mentioned higher cognitive investment makes high sec life an easy choice.
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Grendelsbane
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Posted - 2008.03.01 04:21:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Grendelsbane on 01/03/2008 04:24:34 A lot of it is laziness. While they may be carebears, they still like to shoot things - and hisec missioning allows them to feel all "l337" for slaughtering waves of autistic NPC's any time they want with practically no risk.
0.0 ratting and mining are profitable, true, but you have to get there to do it, and occasionally you'll need to do real PvP.
There are quite a few carebears who simply suck at PvP or refuse to do it because it's "too hard". A lot of them will tell you they can't afford it, but mostly this is because they'll try bringing out a 500 million ISK BS without even having frigate PvP experience, and get totally pwned. You know these guys, the ones who think they can buy survival or experience with ISK.
Furthermore, a lot of carebear types simply cannot handle teamwork or following instructions. They have the completely wrong mindset for PvP combat and, quite frankly, will never be able to handle it effectively. Even if you have dedicated PvPers to watch over them, it's like trying to watch half a corp full of small children in a scissors factory. While there may be any number of right ways to do things, there are most definitely wrong ways that will get you killed - and these guys simply won't listen. "It's just a game", "Stop telling me what to do". One of my personal favorites is "ISK isn't everything" - after they take it up the rear and lose their zillion ISK noob deathtrap, they go running back to empire because they "don't have the ISK to be in 0.0"
And never mind the ratting, they HAVE to have their LP as well, otherwise they'll never get their SUPEROMGl337 navy issue mission ***** ship. Some of them can't seem to tell the difference between missioning and PvP, and, again, think that the best thing to do is fly as inhumanly expensive as ship as possible rather than, you know, use a more practical vessel and fly with friends.
Lastly, you have the instant gratifiction factor - a lot of pilots are simply not interested in the larger sandbox elements of the game, because POS'es and 0.0 logistics are so much more work to get set up. Many of these guys, in my experience, have never actually had ANY successful PvP of any kind, and so don't even know the feeling of accomplishment. They'd rather spend 3 weeks missioning than moving POS parts and fuel or moving their personal effects. Hell, I know carebears who scream bloody murder if they have to make a 30 jump move in empire, you think they're going to want to move to the ass end of the universe?
I hear a lot of "I play for relaxation and fun, and 0.0 isn't fun", both in-game and in this thread. The pathological carebears seem to have this bizarro-world notion of what 0.0 space is like, which is typically reinforced if they try it once and get their butts kicked because, as noted, they can't listen or work as a team.
And probably the most important point here - do you really WANT these people out there with you? I can understand if you want more targets, but do you want them backing YOU up? Let them stay in empire and continue their NPC Final Solution. We don't need them.
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Ryo Jang
Central Defiance Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.01 04:27:00 -
[60]
heres a few reason i could think of:
1) the roleplay factor. not that i do, but all other things equal, id rather hang out in luminaire than P-VVYL.
2) other people. rather than empty gates and dead stations, there are normal people doing normal things, and they dont mind nor care that you are there.
3) empire wars. if you want pvp, you got it.
4) less *******s. and we all know how many there are out there in 0.0
5) the single player crowd. a lot of people out there just want to log in and do some missions. why cant they? thats how i started out, and i loved it. just because its an mmo doesnt mean they have to come out to where you are so that you can shoot them.
im sure i can think of more, but ill leave it at that.
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