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Hugh Ruka
Caldari Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.03.05 11:19:00 -
[121]
I think what could help here is a huge and I mean HUGE falloff bonus. It would get almost the same range as an Eagle however with some restrictions in accuracy. This would enable the Muninn to effectively use EMP at sniper distances (but being more hit and miss).
I know Goum will break this into pieces as being utter crap and BS, but I tried :-)
Originally by: Aravel Thon
Originally by: Nith Batoxxx Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox...............
I am so so terribly sorry...
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Royaldo
Gallente Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.05 11:24:00 -
[122]
would it be really bad if the arty's could hold more ammo? like 50 rounds?
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Sharkk
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.05 12:05:00 -
[123]
Edited by: Sharkk on 05/03/2008 12:06:36 If i am to believe what I'm reading
Munnin's sucked as anti support snipers before the 5 turret Eagle but were still preferable to the old Eagle???
and now the Munnin still sucks after the 5 turret Eagle but now Caldari have a long range HAC that is better at sniping the the Minnies?
im just ****ed that the Rook can't web as well as the Huggin and the Raven can't feild as many heavy drones as a Domie
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ZelRox
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.03.05 13:23:00 -
[124]
Too much EFT in this thread tbh.
Eagle pretty much lost all of its advantage when the scripts were introduced. Its operating range was pretty much cut down with about 70 km. As eagle is paper thin, no drone bay, and 2 small missile launchers wont do much damage without bonus, a frig with large transversal will still receive little to no damage.
Munin is somewhat in the same situation, but it has dronebay, for additional defense.
Still great roaming ships, id rather go with a BC for fleet fight. ----------------------
BiH 4tw |
Nasta443
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Posted - 2008.03.05 15:52:00 -
[125]
Originally by: ZelRox Too much EFT in this thread tbh.
Eagle pretty much lost all of its advantage when the scripts were introduced. Its operating range was pretty much cut down with about 70 km. As eagle is paper thin, no drone bay, and 2 small missile launchers wont do much damage without bonus, a frig with large transversal will still receive little to no damage.
Munin is somewhat in the same situation, but it has dronebay, for additional defense.
Still great roaming ships, id rather go with a BC for fleet fight.
Muninn is in a worse situation because its gotta stay closer. So not only it has less time to attempt to shoot whatever but its harder to track far sooner.
And the drones won't help much at all.
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welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.05 15:56:00 -
[126]
Originally by: ZelRox Too much EFT in this thread tbh.
Eagle pretty much lost all of its advantage when the scripts were introduced. Its operating range was pretty much cut down with about 70 km. As eagle is paper thin, no drone bay, and 2 small missile launchers wont do much damage without bonus, a frig with large transversal will still receive little to no damage.
Munin is somewhat in the same situation, but it has dronebay, for additional defense.
Still great roaming ships, id rather go with a BC for fleet fight.
Also this.
--------------- you all smell! |
Madla Mafia
The Dead Man's Hand
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Posted - 2008.03.05 17:46:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg (If the Eagle is getting a boost...
..then it's about freaking time that the Pilgrim gets a boost!!! ------------------------------------------
Amarr - getting screwed since 2005. |
Afganec
Minmatar R.u.S.H. Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.05 18:58:00 -
[128]
Originally by: ZelRox Too much EFT in this thread tbh.
Eagle pretty much lost all of its advantage when the scripts were introduced. Its operating range was pretty much cut down with about 70 km. As eagle is paper thin, no drone bay, and 2 small missile launchers wont do much damage without bonus, a frig with large transversal will still receive little to no damage.
Munin is somewhat in the same situation, but it has dronebay, for additional defense.
Still great roaming ships, id rather go with a BC for fleet fight.
Muninn usually had 2 sb fitted. And lost much with scripts being introduced. Its as thin as eagle (but eagle is a bit tougher). Muninn got cute 5 warriors and 2 missile launchers. Witch won't help in killing intitie at snipe range, and won't catch orbiting tackling inter. So this 2 slots and drones are useless crap.
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Stymie Jackson
Caldari Mining Bytes Inc. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.05 19:07:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Goumindong Because its just not feasible at the ranges and gang sizes. Not to mention that drones are terrible at the type of stuff we are talking about.
Fine. Remove a launcher and the drone bay and then talk about improving the Muninn. For roaming gangs, where you can't always dictate range like you want, far more fights occur within 100km then in normal fleet fights.
Guess what...that plays to the muninn's strength. Within it's optimal with more weapons at it's disposal it does as much DPS as the improved Eagle will do at the same range.
The Eagle has better range yes. How often do you get to use it? There is a reason why the Muninn has a significant speed advantage. Of course that doesn't show on EFT so you won't walk about it.
you lost any credibility. In normal gang combat (<100km) range the Muninn wins. Hands down. Faster, more DPS when you include DRONES AND MISSILES. Good luck fitting a launcher on a 5 gun Eagle.
Eagle triumphs in fleet action. AS ALL CALDARI SHIPS DO. Nerf the Rokh then and the Scorpion and the Rook while you are at it.
EFT warriors, FTL.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.03.05 19:17:00 -
[130]
Quote: Munnin's sucked as anti support snipers before the 5 turret Eagle but were still preferable to the old Eagle???
and now the Munnin still sucks after the 5 turret Eagle but now Caldari have a long range HAC that is better at sniping the the Minnies?
Yeah, pretty much. :D
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Dromidas Shadowmoon
Minmatar 54th Knights Templar Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2008.03.05 19:55:00 -
[131]
Edited by: Dromidas Shadowmoon on 05/03/2008 19:57:49 I was 20k away from a covert ops ship that was standing still in my Muninn, with 720's fit and 24k optimal (EMP) and I hit 2 out of 5 shots that took out about 2/3 of its shields, then he jumped to next system before my completely useless missiles could get to him.
Tell me that is a good sniper.. rofl. Muninn has absolutely no reason to exist, remove it so I'm not tempted in my desperate faith to try to fly one in denial that minmatar has a ship that truly has no purpose. :) I honestly would rather not have a 2nd hac, so vagabonds would be more numerously produced, and hence cheaper.
It doesn't need boosted, it needs redesigned. _______________________________________________ Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it. |
Rastigan
Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.05 21:23:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Edited by: Dromidas Shadowmoon on 05/03/2008 19:57:49 I was 20k away from a covert ops ship that was standing still in my Muninn, with 720's fit and 24k optimal (EMP) and I hit 2 out of 5 shots that took out about 2/3 of its shields, then he jumped to next system before my completely useless missiles could get to him.
You were probably moving fast enough to ruin your shot, you probably would have hit with all guns if you were still.....
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Dromidas Shadowmoon
Minmatar 54th Knights Templar Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2008.03.06 01:39:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Rastigan
Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Edited by: Dromidas Shadowmoon on 05/03/2008 19:57:49 I was 20k away from a covert ops ship that was standing still in my Muninn, with 720's fit and 24k optimal (EMP) and I hit 2 out of 5 shots that took out about 2/3 of its shields, then he jumped to next system before my completely useless missiles could get to him.
You were probably moving fast enough to ruin your shot, you probably would have hit with all guns if you were still.....
I had just came out of warp. I wasn't moving at all. _______________________________________________ Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it. |
Ghengis Gone
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Posted - 2008.03.06 06:12:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
The Eagle is not overpowered, it's exactly where it should be now that it has 5 guns....
The problem with the Muninn is it doesn't know what it wants to be. Is it an AC boat? No, the Vagabond beats it by far as a fast skirmish ship, and the Hurricane beats it in a slugging match. Is it an artillery sniper? No, it has a terrible slot layout, poor bonuses, and still loses to the Hurricane once cost-effectiveness is considered. Is it a close-range artillery one-shot-cruisers ship? No, the Hurricane wins there again.
So the first thing to do before fixing the Muninn is to figure out what it's supposed to be. Until it gets a clearly defined role, trying to balance it makes no sense.
Yay. Winner right there.
Also big lols at people who posted even hinting at autocannon muninns. Might as well put on lasers for the full comedy fit.
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Nasta443
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Posted - 2008.03.06 09:53:00 -
[135]
Edited by: Nasta443 on 06/03/2008 09:53:14 so let me get this strait
in a boost raven thread cruises suck because they take too long to hit anythingthats not next to you
in a munin sucks thread (mostly) missiles and drones rock for sniping because they... they... they.... they what?
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.06 09:58:00 -
[136]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 06/03/2008 09:59:31
Originally by: Nasta443 Edited by: Nasta443 on 06/03/2008 09:53:14 so let me get this strait
in a boost raven thread cruises suck because they take too long to hit anythingthats not next to you
in a munin sucks thread (mostly) missiles and drones rock for sniping because they... they... they.... they what?
Because its better then not having them at all? Are you saying we could add a few missiles hardpoints and drones on a zealot and eagle and you wouldnt notice it? you wouldnt whine about that? They have uses and they should be considered in balance. Muninn is a bit different. It has the missiles and drones because minmatar is the versitile race. The pure snipe/gank races will have the slightly better thought through sniper hacs. Deal with it. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare |
Nasta443
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Posted - 2008.03.06 10:07:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 06/03/2008 09:59:31
Originally by: Nasta443 Edited by: Nasta443 on 06/03/2008 09:53:14 so let me get this strait
in a boost raven thread cruises suck because they take too long to hit anythingthats not next to you
in a munin sucks thread (mostly) missiles and drones rock for sniping because they... they... they.... they what?
Because its better then not having them at all? Are you saying we could add a few missiles hardpoints and drones on a zealot and eagle and you wouldnt notice it? you wouldnt whine about that? They have uses and they should be considered in balance. Muninn is a bit different. It has the missiles and drones because minmatar is the versitile race. The pure snipe/gank races will have the slightly better thought through sniper hacs. Deal with it.
go on see how much i'd care about that
besides the zealot massacres the vagabond and muninn with the extra turret so it won't make any difference at all at hac level
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Afganec
Minmatar R.u.S.H. Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.06 10:47:00 -
[138]
Edited by: Afganec on 06/03/2008 10:47:36
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 06/03/2008 09:59:31 They have uses and they should be considered in balance. Muninn is a bit different. It has the missiles and drones because minmatar is the versitile race.
I don't need this versatility. I need a ship that's god in a special role.
In a fleet I don't need drones and missiles - its all about range, scan res and damage. Eagle beats muninn in this field.
In roaming I need speed (vaga, nano sacra, ishtar) or tank (cerber or zealot) or dps (deimos, ishtar , zealot). I would prefer arti hurricane for mid range, because it does the same (looses a bit in range and scan res) but is muuuch cheaper and tanks a bit better.
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.03.08 09:53:00 -
[139]
Reduce the RoF for more damage mod, that'll fix arty and the ships taht use them ----------------- Friends Forever
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.08 10:13:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 08/03/2008 10:14:13
capless weapons an advantage? its not like when youre sniping with your muninn and you see a curse mwding towards you that you think, my weapons dont use cap anyway so ill keep sniping
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.03.09 09:06:00 -
[141]
Just bumping in response to the patch notes not having anything about the muninn. ----------------- Friends Forever
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.03.16 17:27:00 -
[142]
What's more, Tremor ammo has a 75% nerf to the tracking of arty's when used. That's NUTS!
How is a support sniper supposed to hit ANY frigate speeding towards the fleet when the tracking is .009? (Hac at lvl 5 btw)
To put that into perspective, a mega's 425 turrets loaded with t2 range ammo gets .004 tracking (also with lvl5 in bs)
Youch!
Just for even further perspective, the poor Eagle gets .007 tracking with spike loaded. Only reason a 720 arty beats out a 250 is b/c the muninn has a decent tracking bonus.
Now, those numbers dont compare too well against each other, but I assure you that even a smidge of transversal at 80km will prevent the support sniper from being able to hit a cruiser. What this means is that every support sniper in the game HAS to load faction ammo,losing range (lets say 10km) just to have decent tracking.
Reduce the tracking penalties on t2 range ammo to .5 or .66, and you'll see a marked improvement in the ship class. ----------------- Friends Forever |
Goumindong
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.16 20:27:00 -
[143]
Use faction ammo.
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FinrodFelagund
Rome
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Posted - 2008.03.17 05:31:00 -
[144]
If you want to fix muninn:
1. Increase its base lock range by 60% (muninn got nerfed hard with scripts) first. This should free up 1 medium slot, Increase base scan resolution by 60% as well. 2. Get rid of one of the missle launcher hardpoints and the drone bay. (really drones are useless in fleet fights and the missle launchers arnt going to save you when you are lagged out and the vaga gets you tackled. remove them both for all I care) 3. Remove both utility high slots.
4. Now that all the versatility is removed, figure out what is best gain for all that "loss" (its no loss to any muninn pilot who uses it as a sniper in fleet actiond)
Remember minmataar are not just about versatility. We are also about hit and run, and muninn should be the ultimate support killing ship for fleet fights because minmataar are supposed to be the hit and run race. (this is a responce to the idiot who was saying caldari should be best snipers at all rangers because they are caldari, there is enough lore to support any type of ship for any race, please don't use that type of pseudo argument for balancing)
Anyway most of the minmatar issues is with arty not the actual ship. Arty needs about a 50-100% dmg increase and -50-75% rof turning a couple muninns working in tandem with eachother a deadly duo for aything small.
Once alpha is at least double the eagles ill accept it as an advantage, but right now its(the muninn) at about 33%ish more alpha at max range.
With inties going 4k to 18k in fleet fights and muninns being tasty targets for vagas, I generally prefer not to get closer =/
Lastly whoever said muninn and tank in the same sentance LOLER. Seriously, it has 3 midslots to take advantage of its hac resistances. If you decide to armro tank it you have two giant resistance holes to fill. The muninn has absolutly no tank advantage over ANY hac and even if it did, tanking is irrelavent in fleet fights.
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haq aan
Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.03.17 11:03:00 -
[145]
-remove 2 UBER utility/missile highslots. -add +1 med -add +1 low -final layout = 5 - 4 - 6 -double the clip size of Artillery
Now she s worth flying.
haq o/
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