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Torin Corax
Dark Nova Crisis
Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.03.19 12:37:00 -
[121]
 Originally by: Sky Marshal
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 19/03/2008 12:29:30
No one like scouting to permit others players to play, no one, as the scout want play too.
 I beg to differ. I enjoy scouting, if I didn't I would not of bothered training for it. What makes it pointless is Local letting the very people I'm looking for know I'm there long before I can even locate their position. If Local is to stay at least make role-specific ships (Any ship capable of fitting a Covert-ops cloak)exempt from appearing in local. I would be happy to lose any/ all damage bonus on these ships as compensation for having a decent shot at fulfilling my proper role.
Torin
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Kagura Nikon
Infinity Enterprises
Odyssey.
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Posted - 2008.03.19 12:52:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Sky Marshal
STUFF
if YOU are a coward, that is not MY or anyoen else problem. Eve is not a game for cowards. Local has to go, because its just a support for cowards.
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If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Rhaegor Stormborn
Volition Cult
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2008.03.19 13:19:00 -
[123]
I so hope they get rid of local as an intel tool! Constellation chat is in the game, use it!
Volition Cult Recruitment Post |
NightmareX
Quam Singulari
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.19 13:22:00 -
[124]
Siigari Kitawa, i'm soooo agreeing with you on this.
Those who don't see the whole point by removing local, also what bad things it brings by doing that, need to play EVE, seriously.
Local have been in EVE for many years, and it haven't been any problems with the local, and why should it be changed after 5 years?
And you say it will solve blobbing?, there is other things that will come and that will help with that soon.
CCP, fix my forum portrait goddamnit. |
Kappas.
Galaxy Punks
Black Core Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.19 13:38:00 -
[125]
Ahh another week, another thread about removing local.
__________________
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Nohl
Faugh a Ballagh
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Posted - 2008.03.19 13:40:00 -
[126]
Know what would be awesome? Removing cloaked ships from local. Know what would be more awesome? Not having some idiot disagree with this because "omg then my poor little carebear ship would get ganked because i wouldn't know not to jump that gate because i couldn't see the guy watching it from 100km off and then i'd go home a cry like an emo kid that got dumped by the fat girl". That'd be way more awesome.
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RuleoftheBone
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.19 13:49:00 -
[127]
While I would prefer to have local removed I can see the problems for a lot of the player base.
But consider current mechanics:
Scout jumps in...loads local..."FC-Scout 22 local 3 reds 19 neutrals".
All that info without having to do anything other than load system. Thats a bit ******-up for a "hardcore" game  . You would think I could just turn my EvE-IFF transponder to the O-F-F position so you would actually have to LOOK for me  .
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way"
General George Patton USA
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0raven0
Point-Zero
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.19 13:50:00 -
[128]
This would actually do more to nerf the people hunting ratters than it would to nerf the ratters.
Hunter knows theres a ratter somwhere in the next 5 systems but as soon as he comes into constellation the ratter cloaks. The hunter now continues to fly to each and every corner of the next 5 systems and finds nothing. When he comes within scan range of the ratter the ratter can see him and realizes since he isn't seen himself he can decloak and start ratting as soon as this guy leaves scan range. Ratter leaves scan range, finds nothing and has no reason to go back to any specific spot in the last 20 places in 5 systems so ratter survives while hunter spends 20 times the time he would have spent with the local window.
------
Quote:
tuxford: AT LEAST ITS SPEELED CORRECTLY
tuxford: spelled*
Oveur: rofl
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Mannakin
Mercurialis Inc.
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.03.19 13:58:00 -
[129]
If you have a POS scanner at an alliance POS present in the system then everyone in the alliance, in that system, can see everyone in local.
So in alliance held space you can see the enemies coming into local.
Your enemies get no intel about the system without scouting it.
Maybe make cloaked recons ships invisible in local.
Outside claimed space nobody appears on local.
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Hohenheim OfLight
Pegasus Mining and Securities
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.03.19 14:07:00 -
[130]
remove local remove players, all that will happen is people will ether quit or go to empire, removing local basicall means you have to be in gang 100% of the time.
If any thing removing local will make even the simple act of mining blob war fair as you will need 4 mining ships and 50 man gang fro defense as you have no idea who is going to turn up.
Saying use scouts is ajoke, as in the end all that happens are rich plays buy yet another account and sit an alt scout on the gate cloacked and it beceomes who ever has teh most alt gate camping scouts wins.
Leave local alone like democrcey its the least evil choice.
N.B Yes nothing is spelt right in this post but this is not my pc and it does not have firfox speelelelele checker ;P
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Is mining for a hel mad? or just ambishus?
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Haradgrim
Tyrell Corp
INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.03.19 14:25:00 -
[131]
uhh....why not just make local not insta-update the list of players in channel like player created channels are.
There. 100% fixed and no new game mechanics were needed.... 
Originally by: CCP Oveur
...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
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Torin Corax
Dark Nova Crisis
Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.03.19 14:30:00 -
[132]
Another option is just have local show you as "unknown pilot" until you are in sight. it's the amount of info local gives you that is more annoying than anything else.
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sakana
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.03.19 14:33:00 -
[133]
T'is a nice idea. Like others have said, it goes both ways, there is a feeling that you want to know if theres people in your space if you work for it, maybe some sort of anchorable Local scanner or something for POSs could do that though? I dunno.
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Marcus TheMartin
Deadly Addiction
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.03.19 14:51:00 -
[134]
Edited by: Marcus TheMartin on 19/03/2008 14:53:11
Originally by: Kestrix
Instead of removing local, why not offer the player the choice of two states, Dark: You can't talk in local but you can't be seen ether and Active: You can be seen in local and can chat to your hearts content. Think of it like a beacon on your ship, flip the switch and it starts transmitting who you are and enables you to talk to others who are also in this state.
Alts
Originally by: Seldarine
CCP will NEVER remove local for the following reasons:
The vast majority of the playerbase has never, and will never set foot in 0.0.
The vast majority of the playerbase have never and will never pvp.
The vast majority of the playerbase is where CCP earn the vast majority of thier income.
Empire huggers in [SWA] don't need local as they can't be wardecced
Originally by: Torin Corax
Another option is just have local show you as "unknown pilot" until you are in sight. it's the amount of info local gives you that is more annoying than anything else.
the local number count and portrait count have to go. If it ever got reduced to just the number count alliances would have a make yourself known policy when entering a system by just typing o/ when jumping in to a system.
A highslot module turret/launcher slot occupying passive scanner is the key to removing local
A short range scanner that detects signature radius's from 24m2 to ∞ at a distance of 10 AU
A long range scanner that detects signature radius's from
115m2 to ∞ at a distance of 30 AU
It allows a degree of safety to your precious cloaking ravens
with local gone it means there is more of a reason to rat in systems that are 30 AU+ in size as opposed to which one is more likely to spawn the officers as now no one would know you were there
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Izzy Lizzy
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.19 14:53:00 -
[135]
I personally don't see any problem with local. Maybe it could use a few tweaks but it makes since to me. No one is more at an advantage than anyone else by using local. We all have access to it. There may be others that use it more to their advantage than someone else but the same tools are there to use for everyone.
I'm not a big roleplayer but I tend to look at the local chat from a roleplaying element and it makes sense in that light. The jump gates are obviously a sophisticated piece of technology and the computer systems they would have would keep a log of anyone who has jumped through them. Thus I just imagine that my ship's computer can access the jump gate's computer and download the public log of all who have jumped in and out of the system. I know my little idea doesn't explain why someone would show in local that used a jump bridge or whatever but I haven't really thought that far into it. 
Quote:
The average man will bristle if you say his father was dishonest, but he will brag a little if he discovers that his great-grandfather was a pirate.
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Torin Corax
Dark Nova Crisis
Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.03.19 15:06:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Izzy Lizzy
I personally don't see any problem with local. Maybe it could use a few tweaks but it makes since to me. No one is more at an advantage than anyone else by using local. We all have access to it. There may be others that use it more to their advantage than someone else but the same tools are there to use for everyone.
Local gives a huge advantage to a defending force (during war) or a "prey" ship (if pirating). As the defender you get an instant alert to the presence of a scout/ attacker allowing you to immediately warp/ cloak. However as an attacker you still have to spend time using the scanner to locate your target. This makes it all but impossible to catch your target so long as he/ she is paying attention.
Torin
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Frug
Repo Industries
R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2008.03.19 15:19:00 -
[137]
I used to hate local. I used to want to get rid of local.
Then I read all the thoughtless posts in this thread.
Now I'm convinced people are talking out of their asses and I want local to stay just to spite all the bad suggestions.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - -
If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO
BOOO!! - Ductoris
Neat look what I found - Kreul
Hey, my marbles |
Marcus TheMartin
Deadly Addiction
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.03.19 15:23:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Frug
I used to hate local. I used to want to get rid of local.
Then I read all the thoughtless posts in this thread.
Now I'm convinced people are talking out of their asses and I want local to stay just to spite all the bad suggestions.
why cut off your nose to spite your face?
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Frug
Repo Industries
R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2008.03.19 15:36:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin
Originally by: Frug
I used to hate local. I used to want to get rid of local.
Then I read all the thoughtless posts in this thread.
Now I'm convinced people are talking out of their asses and I want local to stay just to spite all the bad suggestions.
why cut off your nose to spite your face?
The answer is contained in your question.
Spite.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - -
If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO
BOOO!! - Ductoris
Neat look what I found - Kreul
Hey, my marbles |
Marcus TheMartin
Deadly Addiction
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.03.19 15:46:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Frug
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin
Originally by: Frug
I used to hate local. I used to want to get rid of local.
Then I read all the thoughtless posts in this thread.
Now I'm convinced people are talking out of their asses and I want local to stay just to spite all the bad suggestions.
why cut off your nose to spite your face?
The answer is contained in your question.
Spite.
but then you don't have a nose
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Frug
Repo Industries
R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2008.03.19 15:52:00 -
[141]
I didn't want that nose anyway
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - -
If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO
BOOO!! - Ductoris
Neat look what I found - Kreul
Hey, my marbles |
Lord Zoran
House of Tempers
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Posted - 2008.03.19 15:55:00 -
[142]
Originally by: NightmareX
Siigari Kitawa, i'm soooo agreeing with you on this.
Those who don't see the whole point by removing local, also what bad things it brings by doing that, need to play EVE, seriously.
Local have been in EVE for many years, and it haven't been any problems with the local, and why should it be changed after 5 years?
And you say it will solve blobbing?, there is other things that will come and that will help with that soon.
this.
why the hell does local really need removing?
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Marcus TheMartin
Deadly Addiction
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.03.19 15:56:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Lord Zoran
Originally by: NightmareX
Siigari Kitawa, i'm soooo agreeing with you on this.
Those who don't see the whole point by removing local, also what bad things it brings by doing that, need to play EVE, seriously.
Local have been in EVE for many years, and it haven't been any problems with the local, and why should it be changed after 5 years?
And you say it will solve blobbing?, there is other things that will come and that will help with that soon.
this.
why the hell does local really need removing?
How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Blob?
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Avon
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.03.19 15:59:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Frug
I used to hate local. I used to want to get rid of local.
Then I read all the thoughtless posts in this thread.
Now I'm convinced people are talking out of their asses and I want local to stay just to spite all the bad suggestions.
You could, you know, discuss the suggestions to come up with better solutions ... what with this being a discussion forum, an' all.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Ulstan
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.19 15:59:00 -
[145]
Local has always been an intel tool. I can't remember the last time I chatted in local.
And enough of the 'they only appear in local when they speak.' Just make them not appear in local period. Ever. Only in the 'constellation chat' or whatever.
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Cailais
VITOC
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Posted - 2008.03.19 16:19:00 -
[146]
My belief is that Local, as a source of intelligence should be a function of the security level of a system.
Your Local channel would display 'known pilots' within a given AU of your own ship, the greater the Sec level of a system the greater your 'Local' scan range.
For example, in .9 system your local scan range is 90AU, in a .8 it is 80AU and so forth.
Alliances holding Sov would have the ability to place structures that increase the scanning reception of all ships in a given system (effectively creating a quasi Sec Status for the system).
This means that Local 'intelligence' in Low Sec systems is subject to a good degree of doubt, depending on the size of the system itself. This would no doubt be advantageous to both the pirate who wished to remain unseen and the non-pirate seeking to remain undiscovered by casual inspection.
The large range of the Local Scan range in high Sec systems however offers increased warning to those under a War Dec and of course enables a more social environment for those that choose to use it.
C.
Improved Low Sec Idea!! |
Zorlag
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.19 16:23:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Frug
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin
Originally by: Frug
I used to hate local. I used to want to get rid of local.
Then I read all the thoughtless posts in this thread.
Now I'm convinced people are talking out of their asses and I want local to stay just to spite all the bad suggestions.
why cut off your nose to spite your face?
The answer is contained in your question.
Spite.
We're not so different, you and I...
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N00byn00blar
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.19 16:33:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Avon
You could, you know, discuss the suggestions to come up with better solutions ... what with this being a discussion forum, an' all.
Ok, I'll bite. Firstly, what is the problem local is causing that needs a solution? I don't see it written anywhere. Okay, apart from "when I come into local, everybody docks/logs/hides/takes their knickers off". BOO HOO! So they should if they are at risk. Otherwise, nobody without a PvP fit would ever undock - and no, we can't all be escorted 23/7 everywhere we go by a bunch of goons.
Having established we don't want local to be an intel tool, we then proceed to try to create a game mechanism whereby we can remove local and then replace it with another mechanism that is an intel tool.
Are you watching where I'm going with this?
What's the point!
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Frug
Repo Industries
R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2008.03.19 16:34:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin
blah blah...
you forgot to mention that your client mods would become useless
What's all this client modding business?
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - -
If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO
BOOO!! - Ductoris
Neat look what I found - Kreul
Hey, my marbles |
Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention
Reavers.
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Posted - 2008.03.19 16:37:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Avon
Edited by: Avon on 19/03/2008 12:31:12
Grr, forum ate my post.
Make local more local.
Points:
Any ship within range of your ship's scanner appear in your local list (unless cloaked) automatically. Ship scanner range is modified for these purposes as: Scan range + (200AU*system sec status).
Cloaked ships can be revealed in local with a scan probe, but not their position. Range = probe range.
Fleet designated scouts relay their local scan information to all ships in a fleet (within the same system).
Speaking in local automatically reveals you.
I did a long write up on how that would effect gameplay, but I can't be bothered to type it again.
I was going to suggest something like this. In addition the number of people in local could always update in real time, so that you could see blobs jump in even though you wouldn't know who they are until you went into scan range. You'd therefore also always know how many people are in system, as we do know.
Additionally, cloaked ships could also appear in local (not overview) without probing if they are on the same grid. That way if you sat on a gate for example, you would always get people jumping in updated in your local immediately, but you would need someone else covering other gates or risk being ambushed if your scan range doesn't cover them.
The scan range dependency on system security status would be an additional feature worth considering, but not mandatory for the idea to work otherwise. The detection radius could be a standard that is deemed fair in general, or it could even depend on ship class, encouraging the scouting role of some ships (*cough* Assault Frigates *cough*).
In any case, adding more functionality to increase risks to local is the way to go in my opinion, not its complete removal.
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CEO
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