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Madrux
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.03.25 17:17:00 -
[1]
why is it that in europe the monthly fee has not been scaled acordingly with the global exchange rate.
based on euro to us dollar, the us are paying 9.6 euros a month but europeans are paying 14.99, for exactly the same service.
please explain...
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Zeba
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.03.25 17:19:00 -
[2]
Blame your government for waging economic warefare on its neighbors. --------------------- Q: WTF! Why?! A: Because I can. --------------------- |
Imperator Jora'h
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.03.25 17:21:00 -
[3]
This again?
A lot of it has to do with the European VAT which those in the US do not need to pay. Beyond that CCP will nto change pricing policy as exchange rates move forward and back unless it looks like they are losing a lot and the rates look to stay like that for a long time.
Do what many Europeans do and buy GTC from places like Shattered Crystal in the US. Then it will cost you the same as those in the US. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Heddy Lammar
Matari Research Foundation Empire Research
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Posted - 2008.03.25 17:21:00 -
[4]
No explanation needed if you want to pay twice what you pay now, then I'm sure CCP can employ a large enough admin staff to manage payments from all over the world based on exchange rates.
If you don't like it quit, I'm sure that will show them.
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Shadow Joy
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.25 17:21:00 -
[5]
Why are you too lazy to buy a timecard from an American distributor?
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Barzam
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.03.25 17:22:00 -
[6]
Because tomorrow, another war started, more oil secured, dollar soars etc.
If they were to bind fees to currencies ups and downs, people would soon start investing in EVE-timecodes instead of stockoptions, and pretty soon american warships would land on the shores of Iceland, bringing forth untold numbers of robot-soldiers.
We can't have that. Can we?
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Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2008.03.25 17:26:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Madrux why is it that in europe the monthly fee has not been scaled acordingly with the global exchange rate.
based on euro to us dollar, the us are paying 9.6 euros a month but europeans are paying 14.99, for exactly the same service.
please explain...
2 things:
Exchange rates and Taxes!
Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Madrux
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.03.25 17:32:00 -
[8]
thanx for the website, perchasing now.
i love a good work around the system
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Korizan
Oort Cloud Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.25 17:39:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Madrux why is it that in europe the monthly fee has not been scaled acordingly with the global exchange rate.
based on euro to us dollar, the us are paying 9.6 euros a month but europeans are paying 14.99, for exactly the same service.
please explain...
Actually if the the US was billed in Euro's then they would be paying more every month then you are every month. (If you want to know more then that take a economics class)
THe US is not getting a deal although it is VERY nice that CCP accounts for the exchange rates.
In Actual FACT as others have stated when a European buys there GTC's from the US it the Europeans who are actually getting the deal NOT the US customers.
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Madrux
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.03.25 17:40:00 -
[10]
cool, i finally have one thing that london can no longer screw me on...the most expensive city in the world with the least reward.
thank man
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Madrux
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.03.25 17:41:00 -
[11]
yeah but im an australian in europe, so im getting screwed twice
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Pontet Canet
en primeur
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Posted - 2008.03.25 17:45:00 -
[12]
1 European > 1 American
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Madrux
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.03.25 17:52:00 -
[13]
korixan you need to do some searching dude.
current exchange rate
14.99 euro equals 23.4055 USD(what europeans pay if they dont pay us prices)
on top of that i am on the pound
14.99 euro = 11.6890 GBP(plus a internation exchange fee)
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Korizan
Oort Cloud Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.25 18:06:00 -
[14]
Madrux.
THere is a reason why there is a exchange rate to begin with. THe exchange rate is your answer but until you understand exchange rates and what they do and their purpose then you will not understand the principle and I am not an economics teacher. Perhaps someone who can explain it better will post, if not might I suggest you take a class.
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Happy Merchant
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.03.25 18:22:00 -
[15]
well lets see, here in the US our nation minimum wage is what 5.45 an hour... what is the minimum wage in europe... something like 10 euro .... I could be wrong but you need to lower your minimum wage to match ours before you make a stink about unfair pay.
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Bimjo
SKULLDOGS
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Posted - 2008.03.25 18:23:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Bimjo on 25/03/2008 18:24:13
Originally by: Madrux why is it that in europe the monthly fee has not been scaled acordingly with the global exchange rate.
based on euro to us dollar, the us are paying 9.6 euros a month but europeans are paying 14.99, for exactly the same service.
please explain...
hi , I am in the UK and pay ú6.66 per month , thats 8.5 Euro per month and it is CCP approved look here --->>> http://www.shatteredcrystal.com/code.php/eve_online
basically I pay the American rate
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Madrux
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.03.25 18:29:00 -
[17]
actually the minimum wage in uk is ú5.5
but the cost of living in the uk is a lot more than the US
a ****ty flat in london costs a third more than the wequivilant flat in NY, after exchange rate has been taken into account.
using mcdonalds as a example, a cheeseburger is 90 pence($1.72) how much are they in the US?
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Madrux
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.03.25 18:33:00 -
[18]
done it already binjo, cheers mate
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Bimjo
SKULLDOGS
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Posted - 2008.03.25 18:33:00 -
[19]
cheeseburger ? I just replied to you thread(on topic too) and you totally ignored it and went for the cheeseburger ?
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Bimjo
SKULLDOGS
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Posted - 2008.03.25 18:34:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Madrux done it already binjo, cheers mate
ooops , ignore my previous post
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Madrux
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.03.25 18:35:00 -
[21]
anyway, look i got the website
no more problems
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Andrue
Hammers Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.25 19:04:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Andrue on 25/03/2008 19:07:03
Originally by: Madrux thanx for the website, perchasing now.
i love a good work around the system
Do you also love reducing CCP's revenue by 50%?
...because that's what you're doing. If you're based in the EU you are also breaking the law although the chance of being caught and prosecuted is pretty slim.
So many people fail to understand the problem. It isn't that EU citizens are paying extra - it's that US citizens are paying less. The current state of the dollar is hurting CCP. The more people who switch to payments in dollars the more harm is done to them.
It's just the inevitable consequence of the rest of the world realising just what a disaster zone the US economy is becoming. Of course as the dollar drops it becomes easier for US companies to export so it will bottom out and recover eventually. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
StellDust
V.L.A.S.T. Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.03.25 19:34:00 -
[23]
Edited by: StellDust on 25/03/2008 19:38:20
It simply - they do this because they can. and stop this jumbo mumbo about exchange and vat because it is not true. how every other MMORPG treats its customers as equal and the vat and taxes come to this one? take for example another EU game - Lord of the Rings - why they donÆt charge EU more than US or any other? Until people pays and the money flow goes, CCP will remain silent and wonÆt take any action, that is normal logic, after all they want to get as much as they can.
It is not very nice, there is nothing can be done but purchase time cards from US.
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Spenz
Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.03.25 19:48:00 -
[24]
Whine whine whine. Back when the dollar was still up, people paying in Euros were paying a flat rate just like the US, only that flat rate covered your VAT, so in reality euros were actually paying less.
Was anyone whining back then? No. Why are you whining now? Could it be because you like whining?
If I had an Alt I would probably post with it... |
Bimjo
SKULLDOGS
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Posted - 2008.03.25 19:57:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Bimjo on 25/03/2008 19:57:45
Originally by: Andrue Do you also love reducing CCP's revenue by 50%?
...because that's what you're doing. If you're based in the EU you are also breaking the law although the chance of being caught and prosecuted is pretty slim.
woah there Mister policeman proof ? If that was the case then shatteredcrystal and others would be bound by law to add VAT or be refused access to the EU.
Also CCP would have kicked up a fuss about it or told us it is against the EULA. It isn't too difficult to mark GTCs with "outside EU" digits that refuse to install on EU accounts
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Andrue
Hammers Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.25 20:54:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Andrue on 25/03/2008 20:59:18
Originally by: Bimjo Edited by: Bimjo on 25/03/2008 19:57:45
Originally by: Andrue Do you also love reducing CCP's revenue by 50%?
...because that's what you're doing. If you're based in the EU you are also breaking the law although the chance of being caught and prosecuted is pretty slim.
woah there Mister policeman proof ?
UK C&E rules. Quote:
If that was the case then shatteredcrystal and others would be bound by law to add VAT or be refused access to the EU.
They are, under international treaty. Basically everyone knows that we have to get along so by-and-large countries aggree to play nice and help each other out. (Un)fortunately it's too costly to administer and not currently worth the fuss but it's still illegal and, yes, the US is supposed to enforce it exactly as the EU is supposed to enforce trading rules requested by the US.
Quote: Also CCP would have kicked up a fuss about it or told us it is against the EULA. It isn't too difficult to mark GTCs with "outside EU" digits that refuse to install on EU accounts.
The EULA is not concerned with the law - it's just a set of rules that CCP have dreamt up for people wanting to play their game. It is also not CCP's responsibility to collect VAT on other companies transactions. You bought the GTCs from Shattered Crystal so SC is supposed to collect the VAT. That's the whole point of it. It's collected at point of sale.
Even if CCP could determine whether an account was EU or US (how?) there is no legal requirement for them to implement the system you propose because they aren't the ones selling the GTCs. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Amrak
Viziam
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Posted - 2008.03.25 21:04:00 -
[27]
If we all paid in Isk (Iceland Currency)
1,765.39 ISK = 23.4702 USD
1,765.39 ISK = 14.9970 EUR
seem's about right...
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sherado took
Oxidise Developments
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Posted - 2008.03.25 22:02:00 -
[28]
i pay for my accounts using american express by the time it goes from pounds to dollars and back to pounds again all 3 of my accounts cost me less the 20 quid a month bargin
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cal nereus
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.03.25 22:03:00 -
[29]
Taxes (specifically, VAT). Europe has more right? If you want to pay less, pay with an American time card. ---
Join BH-DL Skills |
Drizit
FREEDOM FIRST Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.25 22:05:00 -
[30]
Blame the internet. The Dollar is pretty much the standard currency when buying on the net. The problem with Britain especially is that the only thing that gets changed is the sign. So depending on the exchange rate, we can always be paying practically twice what they pay in the USA.
I use Shatteredcrystal and buy timecodes with my Paypal account which costs nothing for the currency exchange and get my Eve time for half the price I'd normally pay.
--
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Malar
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2008.03.25 22:05:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Madrux why is it that in europe the monthly fee has not been scaled acordingly with the global exchange rate.
based on euro to us dollar, the us are paying 9.6 euros a month but europeans are paying 14.99, for exactly the same service.
please explain...
Europeans are paying more because of the VAT. Thats what CCP told me a few years ago. Which EU country has a VAT that follows the EUR/USD exchange rate is a big question to me - which i asked, and which i never got an answer to - but still.. you've got your answer now.
Happy? :) --------------------------------------------- *Comments in this post are mine and mine only* |
Malar
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2008.03.25 22:10:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Happy Merchant well lets see, here in the US our nation minimum wage is what 5.45 an hour... what is the minimum wage in europe... something like 10 euro .... I could be wrong but you need to lower your minimum wage to match ours before you make a stink about unfair pay.
Actually, in Hungary the minimum is more like 2-2.50 an hour, so i guess i beat you there. Oh contrary to popular belief, WE DO LIVE IN EUROPE. Just not on the west side.
EAST SIDE IS THE BEST. --------------------------------------------- *Comments in this post are mine and mine only* |
Robacz
Essence Trade Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.03.25 22:44:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Malar
Originally by: Happy Merchant well lets see, here in the US our nation minimum wage is what 5.45 an hour... what is the minimum wage in europe... something like 10 euro .... I could be wrong but you need to lower your minimum wage to match ours before you make a stink about unfair pay.
Actually, in Hungary the minimum is more like 2-2.50 an hour, so i guess i beat you there. Oh contrary to popular belief, WE DO LIVE IN EUROPE. Just not on the west side.
EAST SIDE IS THE BEST.
Heh, it is 1.85 EUR / hour in Czech rep. (also an EU member).
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J Valkor
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.03.25 22:51:00 -
[34]
Those eastern countries are also growing quickly economically as opposed to the stagnant west.
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Shintai
Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.03.25 22:53:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Madrux why is it that in europe the monthly fee has not been scaled acordingly with the global exchange rate.
based on euro to us dollar, the us are paying 9.6 euros a month but europeans are paying 14.99, for exactly the same service.
please explain...
Perhaps you should have said "why is it that in non european countries the monthly fee has not been scaled acordingly with the global exchange rate."
I dont know if you actually noticed. The dollar is dropping like virgins to a prom. So if anything CCp could raise the dollar price to 20-25$.
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Daziel Iaar
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
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Posted - 2008.03.25 23:28:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Daziel Iaar on 25/03/2008 23:29:44 I'm from the uk so i don't mind paying the extra money, just another thing we can point towards when the US claim to be the best nation on Earth :p and besides i feel sorry for the majority of the americans having to have george bush as the president :p
"His Will Be Done" |
Pooka
United Space Aillance USA
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Posted - 2008.03.25 23:31:00 -
[37]
didn't hear anyone from the UK saying they felt sorry the Americans when we were paying more they them 2 years ago! PROMISES MADE PROMISES KEPT BRING THE BRIGHT STAR BACK!!!
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.03.25 23:50:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Kerfira on 25/03/2008 23:50:45
Originally by: Andrue
Originally by: Madrux thanx for the website, perchasing now.
i love a good work around the system
Do you also love reducing CCP's revenue by 50%?
...because that's what you're doing. If you're based in the EU you are also breaking the law although the chance of being caught and prosecuted is pretty slim.
So many people fail to understand the problem. It isn't that EU citizens are paying extra - it's that US citizens are paying less. The current state of the dollar is hurting CCP. The more people who switch to payments in dollars the more harm is done to them.
The solution for CCP would be pretty simple. If they really wanted to play fair, they'd pick one currency and sell subscriptions and timecards in that currency (doesn't matter which, Euro/$/ISK...). Resellers like SC would then have to handle the currency conversion, but everyone around the world would pay the same.
What I do dislike is that with this as so much else, Europeans are ripped off while Americans gets things cheap (look at electronics, software etc.), which in essence means that WE are paying for THEM. Heard the phrase 'Rip-off Britain'?
VAT is one thing, but the difference in prices is too great to ignore anymore for me. Most likely I'll change my 4 accounts to time-cards from SC too....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Bimjo
SKULLDOGS
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Posted - 2008.03.26 00:11:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Andrue Edited by: Andrue on 25/03/2008 20:59:18
Originally by: Bimjo Edited by: Bimjo on 25/03/2008 19:57:45
Originally by: Andrue Do you also love reducing CCP's revenue by 50%?
...because that's what you're doing. If you're based in the EU you are also breaking the law although the chance of being caught and prosecuted is pretty slim.
woah there Mister policeman proof ?
UK C&E rules. Quote:
If that was the case then shatteredcrystal and others would be bound by law to add VAT or be refused access to the EU.
They are, under international treaty. Basically everyone knows that we have to get along so by-and-large countries aggree to play nice and help each other out. (Un)fortunately it's too costly to administer and not currently worth the fuss but it's still illegal and, yes, the US is supposed to enforce it exactly as the EU is supposed to enforce trading rules requested by the US.
Quote: Also CCP would have kicked up a fuss about it or told us it is against the EULA. It isn't too difficult to mark GTCs with "outside EU" digits that refuse to install on EU accounts.
The EULA is not concerned with the law - it's just a set of rules that CCP have dreamt up for people wanting to play their game. It is also not CCP's responsibility to collect VAT on other companies transactions. You bought the GTCs from Shattered Crystal so SC is supposed to collect the VAT. That's the whole point of it. It's collected at point of sale.
Even if CCP could determine whether an account was EU or US (how?) there is no legal requirement for them to implement the system you propose because they aren't the ones selling the GTCs.
fair point
but "Under the terms of the VAT on E-Commerce Directive, most electronically supplied services are subject to VAT" doesn't mean everything is subject to VAT
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Marcus TheMartin
Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.03.26 00:12:00 -
[40]
You get the added bonus of not being associated with america
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Ulstan
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.26 01:28:00 -
[41]
Quote: why is it that in europe the monthly fee has not been scaled acordingly with the global exchange rate.
Name one game where they change the subscription price based on fluctuations in currency value.
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Ebola Jihad
Altruism. Darkness Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.26 02:14:00 -
[42]
EU's pay more as they are better at EVE.........
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Wrayeth
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.03.26 03:09:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 26/03/2008 03:14:34 Edited by: Wrayeth on 26/03/2008 03:12:41
Originally by: Andrue So many people fail to understand the problem. It isn't that EU citizens are paying extra - it's that US citizens are paying less.
Um...if this were the case, where is my extra money? Seriously, tell me. Just because the Euro and the Pound are worth more in relationship to the Dollar doesn't mean that U.S. citizens pay any more or less of their income for their subscriptions. A cheeseburger, for instance, still costs roughly the same in the U.S. today as it did six months or a year ago. Gas prices are up, yes, but that's true for the entire world, too, and doesn't signify as far as your claim is concerned.
Again, we're not paying less than we were previously. My $15.00 a month is still $15.00 coming out of my account, not the $9.00 you seem to think it is. Also, why didn't you complain a couple years ago when the Dollar was stronger than the Euro? After all, it was the U.S. citizens having to "pay more" then.
Oh, wait...that's because it "benefitted" you. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
Karl Luckner
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.26 03:45:00 -
[44]
Just take advantage of the situation and do what everybody else does. Buy stuff in the US for monopoly money.
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Barbens
Blue. Blue Federation
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Posted - 2008.03.26 03:59:00 -
[45]
Its your choice how you want to spend your $15 a month. In the end, i've been paying $15 a month for the last 3 years. Has the economy changed how much i pay per month? Nope, not a penny, still $15. Economically, have i noticed a change in the value of $15? Hell no. Your $15 should still get you its amount in goods. In your local economy have you noticed the change in $15? Chances are hell no. It may be worth more US, but in your own country, its still only $15.
If you dont like it, buy a GTC from a US vendor, that way you can spread your money out farther. If you dont like the fact the USD is the standard currency, then your fighting a losing battle.
BaRbEnS
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matty01
Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.03.26 05:04:00 -
[46]
i'm American, i should pay less then other countries
also, LOL at the America hating going on in here, you must be wicked jealous of us
you're tears make me laugh :D
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Jurgen Cartis
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2008.03.26 05:04:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Jurgen Cartis on 26/03/2008 05:05:43 *Cough* Buy GTCs in USD and pay the same as Americans *Cough* -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Angelonico
Series of Tubes
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Posted - 2008.03.26 05:07:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Jurgen Cartis Edited by: Jurgen Cartis on 26/03/2008 05:05:43 *Cough* Buy GTCs in USD and pay the same as Americans *Cough*
I can't believe everyone hasn't figured this out already. This might be the most epic whine thread of all time.
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matty01
Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.03.26 05:09:00 -
[49]
buy American!
then whine about our government or whatever it is you all hate about us
ha
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mishkoff
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.26 06:30:00 -
[50]
This is a good thread. Lots of love from across the pond
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Den enjen
MAFIA
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Posted - 2008.03.26 06:55:00 -
[51]
I pay less then the americans. Since the dollar is at an all time low ($ 1 = Ç 1.50) i buy my GTC online, with paypal. And guess what, a 30 day GTC cost me Ç 10.50. So who's paying more --------------------------------------------
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W3370Pi4
Lords Of Kaos Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.26 08:00:00 -
[52]
google "shattered crystal"
and stop whinning its usually a lot easier to complain than to propose/ find a solution by yourself
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2008.03.26 08:20:00 -
[53]
We Europeans have a far stronger economy with better regulation and discipline. Surely we can afford to keep our American brethren afloat until they sort out their affairs.
in the meantime use ShatteredCrystal .. very speedy service and you get to talk to an American whose job actually involves knowing where stuff is geographically. Quite a thrill after hearing my country is a city in another more than once:D
We have been paying almost 100% more for our petrol for years, but you don't hear any complaints from motorists (who are usually very loud in the public debate)
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Malar
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2008.03.26 08:27:00 -
[54]
Actually its more like a question of principle.
In 'normal' stores, you have a set price in a given currency. Now when you choose to buy a product, your own currency gets converted into the currency in which the store is selling.
That is, if you are using a different currency. Generally everyone pays the same, as if its 10 usd, then the americans will pay 10 usd, the europeans will pay its equivalent in eur, the hungarians will pay it equivalent in huf etc.
Problems start if you sell stuff in two different currencies, but the price in those currencies do not follow the international exchange rates.
In that case, which currency you are charged in when you buy the product might influence the price of the product.
Since im not a US resident, neither an economist, someone could tell me why CCP would sell their game both in USD and in EUR except for the simple reason to make it convenient for the people using these two currencies.
Small EVE billing history for those new: In the beginning, there was the USD. CCP charged people happily in USD and everything was fine, everyone was happy. Then one day, CCP realized, that all those people in europe are not paying taxes after their purchase, so they quickly introduced the EUR price and made european customers use that instead. It was roughly 10-15% more than the USD price at that time, which they said was a result of the added VAT.
Now the fun starts. As US economy crumbles and european economy fluorishes, the difference between the EUR and USD grows bigger and bigger. The 15% is soon to be 20, then 25, then 30, then even more.. until today where the ratio between the two is lot closer to 2:1 than to 1:1.
People were always wondering which EU country CCP pays VAT for, as none of them have ever had a VAT that follows the exchange rate of EUR:USD. It only became a major concern lately however, when people realized that they can get 3 accounts for the price of 2 if they pay for their accounts in USD instead of EURs.
As for the US guy who said that the game isnt cheaper for him than it was.. well dude, it IS cheaper for you. As would you have to pay in EUR instead of USD, you would pay like 20+ USD for each account. Not because the game got more expensive, but because your economy and your currency sucks. This however works the same for those livign in 'less important' countries. If say HUF gets weaker compared to other currencies, i do have to pay more relative to my own income. If HUF gets stronger, i do have to pay less.
Thing is, atm there are two different prices for the same product. One price is 14.95 EUR if you are stupid and pay with the credit card - this price has VAT and Stupidity tax included in it - or 9.71 EUR if you take the time and get a GTC from an american source.
Now this thread in itself is a joke, as realistically the best thing CCP can do - for themselves - is to get rid of the different US price and charge everyone 14.95 for their product regardless of the currency involved. Which would mean a nice near 50% price increase for those who were paying in USD until now.
Why is the thread a joke? Cuz its kicking yourself in your own balls people. You are essentially whining to CCP to close a loophole that allows you to get EVE a lot cheaper than you would get it otherwise. :) --------------------------------------------- *Comments in this post are mine and mine only* |
Karlemgne
Flying Under the Influence Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2008.03.26 09:32:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Robacz
Originally by: Malar
Originally by: Happy Merchant well lets see, here in the US our nation minimum wage is what 5.45 an hour... what is the minimum wage in europe... something like 10 euro .... I could be wrong but you need to lower your minimum wage to match ours before you make a stink about unfair pay.
Actually, in Hungary the minimum is more like 2-2.50 an hour, so i guess i beat you there. Oh contrary to popular belief, WE DO LIVE IN EUROPE. Just not on the west side.
EAST SIDE IS THE BEST.
Heh, it is 1.85 EUR / hour in Czech rep. (also an EU member).
Really, that sucks. A few questions though:
How much do you pay for your health insurance? What happens when you're sick and can't go to work? Do they pay you? Do you get any paid vacation? What would happen if you were to say, lose your job? Do you have an efficient public transportation system?
Really I'd like to know how much of your take home wages go into rent, health insurance bills, car payments, etc?
Oh that's right, you don't have to worry about any of that ****. In fact, America, for most Americans sucks ass.
-Karlemgne
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Voculus
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.03.26 09:44:00 -
[56]
Quote: Now the fun starts. As US economy crumbles and european economy fluorishes
European economy flourishing? Since when? You consider 10% unemployment great, and 15% acceptable. Here, that would be the beginning of another Great Derpression. _________________________________________________________
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.03.26 09:54:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Voculus
Quote: Now the fun starts. As US economy crumbles and european economy fluorishes
European economy flourishing? Since when? You consider 10% unemployment great, and 15% acceptable. Here, that would be the beginning of another Great Derpression.
The European countries that has sensible labor laws are flourishing.... The main reason is that if it's relatively easy to get rid of employees (like 1-2 months notice), companies are far more inclined to employ new people.
Countries with outdated labor laws like Germany, France and most of the southern EU countries doesn't have sensible labor laws (or rather, the unions are way too strong)....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Estel Arador
AFK
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Posted - 2008.03.26 09:57:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Wrayeth Um...if this were the case, where is my extra money? Seriously, tell me. Just because the Euro and the Pound are worth more in relationship to the Dollar doesn't mean that U.S. citizens pay any more or less of their income for their subscriptions. A cheeseburger, for instance, still costs roughly the same in the U.S. today as it did six months or a year ago. Gas prices are up, yes, but that's true for the entire world, too, and doesn't signify as far as your claim is concerned.
Again, we're not paying less than we were previously. My $15.00 a month is still $15.00 coming out of my account, not the $9.00 you seem to think it is.
You're looking at it from the wrong perspective. How much you earn is simply irrelevant. You are paying CCP for a service and you pay based on what providing that service costs to CCP, you do not pay based on your income. CCP has to use your weak dollars to pay for their costs in ISK or GBP (as they're based in Iceland/UK).
Originally by: Malar People were always wondering which EU country CCP pays VAT for,
Iceland, as per agreement in the European Economic Area.
Skills Explained |
Andrue
Hammers Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.26 11:06:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Bimjo
Originally by: Andrue <waffle snipped>
fair point
but "Under the terms of the VAT on E-Commerce Directive, most electronically supplied services are subject to VAT" doesn't mean everything is subject to VAT
That's true. Also looking into a bit more I'm not sure that it's quite right to say that it's illegal. It seems to be a grey area.
I think a more accurate description would be:
The EU wants it levied on its members. As part of the global economy non-member countries are expected to help out because we are all supposed to play fair and cooperate. The US should scratch our back because we will scratch theirs.
What I don't know is how firmly that relationship is established. It may just be a 'gentleman's agreement' or it may be codified in international law.
It's also not clear what level of enforcement the EU could expect. Would US courts be prepared to go so far as to penalise SC?
Whatever - I think all we can really say is that it's supposed to happen according to the EU but it doesn't always happen so people can get away with it.
Tbh what I'm more concerned about is the affect on CCP. If everyone switched to paying in dollars it would reduce their income by 50%. That's a helluva hit for any company to take. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Andrue
Hammers Academy
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 11:15:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Wrayeth Edited by: Wrayeth on 26/03/2008 03:14:34 Edited by: Wrayeth on 26/03/2008 03:12:41
Originally by: Andrue So many people fail to understand the problem. It isn't that EU citizens are paying extra - it's that US citizens are paying less.
Um...if this were the case, where is my extra money? Seriously, tell me. Just because the Euro and the Pound are worth more in relationship to the Dollar doesn't mean that U.S. citizens pay any more or less of their income for their subscriptions. A cheeseburger, for instance, still costs roughly the same in the U.S. today as it did six months or a year ago. Gas prices are up, yes, but that's true for the entire world, too, and doesn't signify as far as your claim is concerned.
Again, we're not paying less than we were previously. My $15.00 a month is still $15.00 coming out of my account, not the $9.00 you seem to think it is. Also, why didn't you complain a couple years ago when the Dollar was stronger than the Euro? After all, it was the U.S. citizens having to "pay more" then.
Oh, wait...that's because it "benefitted" you.
Okay, here's a theoretical example of how it works. I can't be bothered to get the historical data on exchange rates so I can only demonstrate the maths:
It all comes down to the fact that CCP need Isk. Not the in-game kind but the Icelandic Krona. When subscribers use any other currency it has to be converted at some point using the exchange rate.
Initial setup: $1=Ç1=Isk 1.
10,000 subscribers paying $10 each is Isk 100,000. 10,000 subscribers paying Ç10 each is Isk 100,000. Total for CCP = Isk 200,000
Move forward a few years, the dollar has tanked: Ç2=1=Isk 1 NB:Another way of saying this is that it costs two dollars to buy one Euro or one Isk. or A dollar is now only worth half a Euro.
10,000 subscribers paying $10 each is Isk 50,000 (it takes $2 to buy Isk 1). 10,000 subscribers paying Ç10 each is Isk 100,000. Total for CCP = Isk 150,000
That's why the fall in the dollar hurts CCP.
Now if everyone switches to paying by dollars you end up with:
20,000 subscribers paying $10 each is Isk 100,000 (it takes $2 to buy Isk 1) Total for CCP = Isk 100,000.
VAT is a factor in this but has not been the major factor for well over a year now. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
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Barzam
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.03.26 11:17:00 -
[61]
Lets be happy we are not paying in Icelandic Kronas, or CCP would be dead-broke
Quote: Fears that Iceland could be the first country to fall victim of the global financial turmoil grew yesterday when its central bank abruptly increased interest rates 1.25 percentage points to 15 per cent in an attempt to restore confidence in its struggling currency and stave off a full- blown economic crisis.
article: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b0499804-fad6-11dc-aa46-000077b07658.html
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Andrue
Hammers Academy
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 11:31:00 -
[62]
But as for a US/EU comparison. I work with Americans on a daily basis (I'm part of an international software development team). From our discussions and from visits we have all concluded the following.
A software engineer living in the UK as pretty much the same standard of living and access to pretty much the same 'things' as an equivalent software engineer does in the US.
There are a few difference but it pretty much evens out.
The Americans are jealous of our contracts (they all work-at-will), our healthcare (on behalf of friends/family not covered by the company) and our history.
We are jealous of their large houses, the fantastic scenery and the relative ease with which you can make an independant living if you don't fancy being a corporate slave.
But overall US<=>UK. It's more important where your roots are and what you are used to. If you are the kind of person that can break free of the corporate tread mill and have the guts and ability to forge your own way then the US is the place to go.
OTOH the consequences of failing in the US are harsher than they are in the UK. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Malken
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.26 11:33:00 -
[63]
the us goverment have no idea on how to keep a stable value on their money. soon all the mexicans in the us want their salarys paid in pesos.
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Cipher7
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.26 12:18:00 -
[64]
How much is bread in Euros?
I pay $1.39 for 1 loaf of italian bread.
Gas is $3.39 per gallon
Went to a dentist the other day cost me $250 to get a tooth pulled.
Wages in the New York area average around 60k/year but theres alot of people living on 30-40k by living in the suburbs where the rents are lower.
If you're healthy and like to work hard I think the living is MUCH better in America. The wages are a little lower but the VOLUME of available work of tremendous, you could work 80 hours a week if you wanted.
If you're sick, lazy, alcoholic, drug addicted, unable to work, etc the living is MUCH better in Europe.
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Barzam
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.03.26 12:29:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Cipher7
How much is bread in Euros?
I pay $1.39 for 1 loaf of italian bread.
Gas is $3.39 per gallon
Went to a dentist the other day cost me $250 to get a tooth pulled.
Wages in the New York area average around 60k/year but theres alot of people living on 30-40k by living in the suburbs where the rents are lower.
1 loaf of italian bread is about USD $4 here.
Gas per gallon is USD $7.6
Getting a tooth pulled about USD $150
Average wage is about $40k USD , after tax about $28k USD
So in closing.. you pay a lot less money for everything, you get a lot more for your money, and we should pay more than you? Where's your logic?
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Cipher7
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.26 13:03:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Barzam
So in closing.. you pay a lot less money for everything, you get a lot more for your money, and we should pay more than you? Where's your logic?
You snotty Euros have been bashing us for years.
Consider it Karmic justice.
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The TX
Earth Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.26 13:07:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Madrux why is it that in europe the monthly fee has not been scaled acordingly with the global exchange rate.
based on euro to us dollar, the us are paying 9.6 euros a month but europeans are paying 14.99, for exactly the same service.
please explain...
Buy GTC's from ShatteredCrystal.com - it works out at ú7.54 per month for me, which is less than Ç10 I think... YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE TX'S ATTENTION SEEKING SIGNATURE www.txdp.co.uk |
Joshua Foiritain
Coreli Corporation
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Posted - 2008.03.26 13:09:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Happy Merchant well lets see, here in the US our nation minimum wage is what 5.45 an hour... what is the minimum wage in europe... something like 10 euro
All the way down to 3 euros actually, though not many people would bother getting up for that -----
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Poreuomai
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.26 13:11:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Madrux why is it that in europe the monthly fee has not been scaled acordingly with the global exchange rate.
based on euro to us dollar, the us are paying 9.6 euros a month but europeans are paying 14.99, for exactly the same service.
please explain...
The truth is ... CCP have nerfed the Euro!
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Akyan
InQuest Ascension
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Posted - 2008.03.26 13:12:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Akyan on 26/03/2008 13:13:14
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Originally by: Happy Merchant well lets see, here in the US our nation minimum wage is what 5.45 an hour... what is the minimum wage in europe... something like 10 euro
All the way down to 3 euros actually, though not many people would bother getting up for that
Just for reference the minimum wage in the UK is ú5.52 (or around $11/Ç7), although it's not quiet a straight comparison as the cost of living in the UK is particularly high.
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Cipher7
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.26 13:43:00 -
[71]
All in all I think Euros prolly still live better.
Yeah they pay more for everything, but so what, the basic necessities of life are covered.
Here it's a rat race.
There its more of a zen-work-is-noble-care-for-your-fellow-man type thing.
Personally I'd rather live in Paris than New York. But not London. Anywhere but London.
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Barzam
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.03.26 13:48:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Barzam on 26/03/2008 13:49:09
Originally by: Cipher7
Personally I'd rather live in Paris than New York. But not London. Anywhere but London.
Jeez, Paris? Really?
And you talk about snotty euro's! They're the epitaph of snotty euro's!
Edit: I'd much rather live in Prague, Czech republic.. Beautiful city, cheap beer, cheap everything, nice people! \o/
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Priest Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.26 14:01:00 -
[73]
The best solution is, everybody pays in the currency they earn their income. As of today this solution is still used by CCP. In this case no matter which direction exchange rates go it is CCP taking the risk and their player base keep paying the same amount . I can explain all the logic behind how CCP taking currency risk and why this is the way they protect their customers if these are confusing subjects.
Original poster and anybody has concerns in this matter should understand prices of same services and goods change from country to country due to currency rates, taxes and other economical factors. What matters to customers is the price of the service compared to their income . CCP is an European based company and if other countries currencies lose value they are not supposed to lower their euro prices. In either case you will never end up paying less in terms of Euro , but if CCP changes policy other countries will start paying more. Beyond this point, getting jealous of the person living in the next country , or being greedy and trying to pay CCP less than the cost of service in your country are your personal matters.
CCP's price policy is not hurting its customers, it is protecting them.
What is good for Eve is good for the Temple Priest Amarr
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Cipher7
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.26 14:03:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Barzam Edited by: Barzam on 26/03/2008 13:49:09
Originally by: Cipher7
Personally I'd rather live in Paris than New York. But not London. Anywhere but London.
Jeez, Paris? Really?
And you talk about snotty euro's! They're the epitaph of snotty euro's!
Edit: I'd much rather live in Prague, Czech republic.. Beautiful city, cheap beer, cheap everything, nice people! \o/
I've had good experiences with the French, they're cool really.
And no the women are not hairy.
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Malar
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2008.03.26 15:02:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Voculus
Quote: Now the fun starts. As US economy crumbles and european economy fluorishes
European economy flourishing? Since when? You consider 10% unemployment great, and 15% acceptable. Here, that would be the beginning of another Great Derpression.
Fluorishing was a relative term as in compared to the US economy. --------------------------------------------- *Comments in this post are mine and mine only* |
CmdoColin
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.26 15:16:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Madrux why is it that in europe the monthly fee has not been scaled acordingly with the global exchange rate.
based on euro to us dollar, the us are paying 9.6 euros a month but europeans are paying 14.99, for exactly the same service.
please explain...
Tax, your scum like politicans are fleecing you. They use the money so they can pay themselves for coming up with new ways to rip off the population they are supposed to serve. Why are you complaining here?
Do something and start a fricken revolution rather than whining on these boards. In the mean time have some cheese with that. Audita et altera pars |
Ssoraszh Tzarszh
The Royal Engineers
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Posted - 2008.03.26 15:17:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Madrux why is it that in europe the monthly fee has not been scaled acordingly with the global exchange rate.
based on euro to us dollar, the us are paying 9.6 euros a month but europeans are paying 14.99, for exactly the same service.
please explain...
It is cause we Euro trash are proud of being rich, and generaly want to flaunt our green in your face.
Also comparing Ç against $ is failboat as when the crisis hits the euro hard, and that will happen this diffrence will be nullified or maybe even reversed.
(use eve-search.com to do some searched about this subject on the forums, its been like one of the oldest memes around.)
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Andrue
Hammers Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.26 15:19:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Andrue on 26/03/2008 15:24:10
Originally by: Cipher7
How much is bread in Euros?
I pay $1.39 for 1 loaf of italian bread.
Gas is $3.39 per gallon
Went to a dentist the other day cost me $250 to get a tooth pulled.
Wages in the New York area average around 60k/year but theres alot of people living on 30-40k by living in the suburbs where the rents are lower.
If you're healthy and like to work hard I think the living is MUCH better in America. The wages are a little lower but the VOLUME of available work of tremendous, you could work 80 hours a week if you wanted.
If you're sick, lazy, alcoholic, drug addicted, unable to work, etc the living is MUCH better in Europe.
You can't compare prices like that precisely because of the effect of exchange rates. It's also a bit bizarre to say that a it's great to work in a country because you can work an 80-hour week. I'd rather live in a country where I didn't have to work long hours.
It's also rather interesting that most if not all the people desperate to slag-off the 'opposition' are Americans. Us European types seem content just to rebuff the comments and point out the current economic facts. Strange how defensive the US contigent are.
Going back to the main topic, however, some of CCP's pain is going to be offset any time they buy stuff from America. Right now is a good time to be investing in American built hardware. I bet they can drive some really hard bargains with US suppliers and prices are nice.
It's got so 'bad' with the dollar that even the stuff in Eve-store is reasonably priced. Even it wasn't branded it'd still be a reasonable price. It's just a shame they seem unable to fullfill orders half the time -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
CmdoColin
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.26 15:29:00 -
[79]
Brackley boy... I'm English... and we pay one of the highest tax levels in Europe. That is direct and indirect taxes. One Indirect being feul tax - our "gas" for our American friends in over $6 a gallon.
Its gonna hurt us too soon as our economy is sliding down the crapper. I can be more technical... but it hurts most peoples heads and derals the thread... Either way I wouldn't be smug towards the "yanks" when the bank of England is so locked into anti inflation messures by the govenment we now have the fastest collapsing economy in the world. Britian is built on a service economy, and that is going to hurt a lot in a world reccession which we are busy spiriling into.
But back to taxes... One of those EU taxes is VAT charged on games. And what does the apathetic EU population do? Whine at CCP. A company trying to compete on an international arena. The EU set up to encourage free trade... Audita et altera pars |
Andrue
Hammers Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.26 15:34:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Andrue on 26/03/2008 15:34:34
Originally by: CmdoColin Brackley boy...
Sadly not a boy any longer - bit too old to be called that. And I'm not being smug. I'm just pointing out a few facts. If you read my posts you'll see that I'm in contact with Americans all day. Overall there's not a lot to choose between US/UK. US/EU is another matter. Even harder to compare. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.03.26 15:36:00 -
[81]
Originally by: CmdoColin Brackley boy... I'm English... and we pay one of the highest tax levels in Europe. That is direct and indirect taxes. One Indirect being feul tax - our "gas" for our American friends in over $6 a gallon.
Please dry your eyes.... The UK actually has one of the lowest(!) overall taxations in Europe.
In the UK, if you are on a very good income, you MAY reach 50% in direct and indirect taxes. In a country like Denmark, you may very well be at around 75% with a medium-high income. Countries like Germany, France etc. are almost as bad. A few are not, but most Western European countries are well above the UK.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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CmdoColin
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.26 15:39:00 -
[82]
Sorry mate, not directed at you... was identifying and saying roughly what petrol gases prices were... other comments about "smugness" were directed elsewhere. Was actually agreeing with you Audita et altera pars |
CmdoColin
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.26 15:49:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Kerfira
In the UK, if you are on a very good income, you MAY reach 50% in direct and indirect taxes.
Yes that's what Govenment likes to tell you.
Direct and indirect taxes in the UK if you earn over 33k a year, drive, smoke and drink, you pay 90% tax. I suggest you actually add up what you are paying - especially come April, when they kick us for even more. No idea what the average family is. But that is what I pay on average.
Direct - National Insurance contributions, and the like.
Indirect - Road tax, VAT, Poll tax (community charge), fuel charges (that's heating your home driving your car etc)
Pack of 20 cigarettes in the UK is now about $13USD
Seriously... Kerfira do the maths. It is truely scary... Audita et altera pars |
cpt rhodes
Silver Eagles Imperium Aeternum
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Posted - 2008.03.26 16:07:00 -
[84]
I agree with this. Just because the americans have*****ed up their currency, why should we pay allmost twice what they do? It is not exactly fair in my opinion.
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roadrage639
VITA. Imperium Aeternum
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Posted - 2008.03.26 16:07:00 -
[85]
Originally by: cpt rhodes I agree with this. Just because the americans have*****ed up their currency, why should we pay allmost twice what they do? It is not exactly fair in my opinion.
agreed You are now reading my Sig. |
CmdoColin
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.26 16:12:00 -
[86]
Originally by: roadrage639
Originally by: cpt rhodes I agree with this. Just because the americans have*****ed up their currency, why should we pay allmost twice what they do? It is not exactly fair in my opinion.
agreed
Just what the politician order. People too thick to understand just how much damage their policies have done... but smart enough to find the polling station.... Audita et altera pars |
Jolliejoe
Quad Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.26 16:14:00 -
[87]
Just buy GTC cards in $$$$ and you'll be almost paying the same amount as Americanos
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cpt rhodes
Silver Eagles Imperium Aeternum
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Posted - 2008.03.26 16:17:00 -
[88]
Well considering that the average american IQ lies way below that of even a polish person it doesnt surprise me. And it merely amuses me that half of americas school children are unable to point out their country on a globe. Their lack of education also seems to be leading to the excessive increase in food intake, leading to obesity. They generally dont know whats good for them, be it foodwise or leaders of their own country.
Heres perhaps an interesting example.. Please do watch the whole thing.. :)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE
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Tiberious Marz
Fire Mandrill
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Posted - 2008.03.26 17:11:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Malken the us goverment have no idea on how to keep a stable value on their money. soon all the mexicans in the us want their salarys paid in pesos.
Its not our money its the Federal Reserve's money, lent to the US govenment w/ intrest. (the Federal Reserve is a private international BANK not a government institution, like many people believe)any fluxuation in value is b/c they see a profit--
Soon I will want to get paid in pesos, but will be paid in AMEROS. look it up.
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Overwhelmed
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.03.26 17:15:00 -
[90]
EVE is a universe where everyone has guns and wants everyone else's money. The center is crawling with police. Surrounding the center is an area where the police are afraid to leave major travel routes because it is crawling with extremely violent gangs. On the outskirts (0.0), we have exclusive clans trying to build picket fences around their homes. Insurance fraud is common.
So you see, Americans pay less because they aren't necessarily getting a unique experience from EVE.
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Barzam
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.03.26 17:18:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Overwhelmed EVE is a universe where everyone has guns and wants everyone else's money. The center is crawling with police. Surrounding the center is an area where the police are afraid to leave major travel routes because it is crawling with extremely violent gangs. On the outskirts (0.0), we have exclusive clans trying to build picket fences around their homes. Insurance fraud is common.
So you see, Americans pay less because they aren't necessarily getting a unique experience from EVE.
Oh man. Subtle, humorous, well-written. You don't belong on Eve-O!!
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Andrue
Hammers Academy
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 18:13:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Andrue on 26/03/2008 18:15:56 Edited by: Andrue on 26/03/2008 18:14:04
Originally by: torswin I love paying in USD. I'm from Norway and since we are not in the European Union (thank goodness for that) we don't need to pay in Euro!
In other words, I get a cheap subscription fee!
Ignorance can be a dangerous thing.
Surprise!
..economically you are a member of the EU.
That might mean that you are subject to the consequences of the EES law like the rest of us. It's interesting though if you can pay in $ via CCP's subscription page. I can't. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
torswin
Silver Snake Enterprise
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 19:00:00 -
[93]
Edited by: torswin on 26/03/2008 19:06:37 Foreign trade doesn't have to pay VAT if they are under the limit of 200 NOK (USD 38.40, EUR 24.70).
VAT used to be 30 % by the way (if I remember correctly). Yes I know we are in the EES but it doesn't make us a fully economically member of EU as it doesn't apply to all fields of our economy.
And you can't use EURO for payment (please fix your 2-euro coin. looking at that ***** is rather disturbing) )
However economy and politics is not my field of education so I don't want to go deeper into that. --- Unless explicitly stated, this post does not represent my alliance, corporation, my own, or any other living organism's view. |
Ulstan
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.26 19:23:00 -
[94]
Wow, the amounts of idiocy and misconceptions in this thread are truly epic.
It's obvious that very few people can be bothered to travel abroad and spend some real time in countries they weren't born in, and actually get to know the people living there.
As far as I can tell, the entire western world is doomed if the people in this thread are any indication. Europe will be entirely replaced by muslims in the next generation or so anyway.
A particularly choice gem:
Quote: Well considering that the average american IQ lies way below that of even a polish person it doesnt surprise me.
Seriously, to even begin to put credence in this kind of junk science indicates several mental deficiencies.
But hey, people believe what makes them feel good, not what makes the most sense.
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Kyra Felann
Noir. Blue Federation
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Posted - 2008.03.26 19:55:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida a far stronger economy with better regulation
Those two are mutually exclusive. The more government regulation, the more the economy suffers.
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Kweel Nakashyn
Aeden Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.03.26 20:03:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 26/03/2008 20:03:37 I am not very sure CCP still reads these topics anymore. Anyway it would be kind if those paying in Euro could have a free service that would cost nothing to CCP.
I'm thinking about power of two.
- edit - This question have to be posed to CSM candidates. 2isk
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Karlemgne
Flying Under the Influence Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2008.03.26 23:56:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Andrue
We are jealous of their large houses
Funny, I'm a 30 year old graduate student and haven't lived in a "large house" since I lived with my parents. In fact, everyone I know (aka friends and fellow students) lives in crapy appartments that are either $1500 a month or $1000 a month when subsidized by universities.
Granted, I live in southern California, however I formerly worked in the video game industry, and even the friends there who are paid well don't usually live in "large" houses.
In fact, I think the experience of the vast majority of Americans is not, in anyway, attached to "large" individualy owned homes.
Quote: the fantastic scenery
Are you like most Europeans who believe that America is all open spaces and nice little diners along side open stretches of freeway? We do have some great scenery here, if you can afford to visit it. Most of us, however, live in big cities and spend our days staring at dirty streets and tremendous poverty, which brings me to my next point...
Quote: and the relative ease with which you can make an independant living if you don't fancy being a corporate slave.
What dream world do you live in? Its marginally easier to start your own business in the United States (80% of which fail btw), but look at the levels of poverty and income inequality. The absolute higest in the "developed" world, and typically, if you want to be "middle-class" in the United States you've got to work for: 1. The government 2. Corporate entities.
Quote: It's more important where your roots are and what you are used to. If you are the kind of person that can break free of the corporate tread mill and have the guts and ability to forge your own way then the US is the place to go.
Yep, and over 80% of the people who try this fall smack on their face in the first two years. When you do fall smack on your face, there is little to no social saftey net. You'll find that you are unable to go to the doctor if you're sick, lose your car (which you need because we have no efficient mass transit), your apartment, everything.
This might actually happen if you DON'T fall on your face.
Quote: OTOH the consequences of failing in the US are harsher than they are in the UK.
Indeed.
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Basileus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.27 00:15:00 -
[98]
Indeed. Americans pay a whole lot less. So, either raise the american fee, or lower the European. Since loweing prices are about as likely as hell freezing over, I suggest CCP raise the american subscription price. Till it hurts.
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Quelque Chose
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.03.27 00:18:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Basileus Indeed. Americans pay a whole lot less. So, either raise the american fee, or lower the European. Since loweing prices are about as likely as hell freezing over, I suggest CCP raise the american subscription price. Till it hurts.
Nah. I think they should double the euro rate as a means of subsidizing their dollar client base. ______________________________
"Eve Online is a massively multiplayer game about trolling in outer space." |
Thorradin
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.27 01:04:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Malar
Originally by: Voculus
Quote: Now the fun starts. As US economy crumbles and european economy fluorishes
European economy flourishing? Since when? You consider 10% unemployment great, and 15% acceptable. Here, that would be the beginning of another Great Derpression.
Fluorishing was a relative term as in compared to the US economy.
Since when is record low unemployment and record high (until the housing bubble finally burst) stock strength somehow crumbling? The US economy has been stronger than the entire EU economy before, and is still very strong.
The thing with being here is, you work for what you want, you are not given it, even though there are people trying to make that happen. Some employers are very generous when it comes to insurance and perks, others are not. I've seen a friend turn down a 70k a year job for a 60k a year job because the perks for working with the company were better, probably was worth more in the end as well.
I can't understand how people can like the healthcare in the uk or canada more than the US, unless they simply never had gotten themselves proper cover here. You don't wait months for surgery and the only real downside is drug costs, which is one of many flaws in having an ever expanding federal government that needs a diet badly.
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Andrue
Hammers Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.27 07:55:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Andrue on 27/03/2008 08:03:21
Originally by: Thorradin
I can't understand how people can like the healthcare in the uk or canada more than the US, unless they simply never had gotten themselves proper cover here. You don't wait months for surgery and the only real downside is drug costs, which is one of many flaws in having an ever expanding federal government that needs a diet badly.
You don't understand the UK probably because you think it's like Canada. In the UK private healthcare cover is legal and a common perk from your employer. That means that for a lot of the working population and their families there are no waits. Even for those without private health cover the waits aren't as bad as they used to be.
If some poor elderly sod that cleans offices part-time needs a hip-replacement they get one within a few months. If they then fall and damage their shoulder they get that fixed as well. Doesn't cost them anything and no-one quibbles over it. That's what I like about it. There's no means testing and everyone is covered regardless of income but if you have the money to pay for a better level of service then you can. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Andrue
Hammers Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.27 08:22:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Andrue on 27/03/2008 08:24:33
Originally by: Karlemgne In fact, I think the experience of the vast majority of Americans is not, in anyway, attached to "large" individualy owned homes.
I never said it was. What I meant was that if I were to move to the US then I would likely end up buying a house that was a bit larger than I would buy in the same kind of location in the UK. What we consider to be a small apartment you would probably consider to be a broom cupboard with plumbing.
Quote:
Originally by: Andrue the fantastic scenery
Are you like most Europeans who believe that America is all open spaces and nice little diners along side open stretches of freeway?
No, of course not. I am however a resident of the UK that has lived for several months in the US curtesy of my employer. The difference is that although in the UK I can get in a car and drive it's mostly just farmland. There are a few relatively uninhabited areas (and to us the country means a village or town every five or six miles) but not many. It's pleasant enough but nothing like the variety of the US or continental Europe.
Both the scenery aspect and the house size aspect should be considered in terms of land area. You don't sound like you know much about the UK or haven't noticed that's where I live. It help you to understand my viewpoint if I point out that I live on an Island with the roughly the same area as Oregon populated by over 60 million people most of whom live in the southern half. It is one of the most densely populated countries on the planet.
Quote:
Originally by: Andrue and the relative ease with which you can make an independant living if you don't fancy being a corporate slave.
What dream world do you live in? Its marginally easier to start your own business in the United States...
Thank you. That's basically what I wrote. Or did you somehow misunderstand the phrase "relative ease".
Yes of course it's still difficult but if you have the skills and inclination it's easier to score it big. Scoring it big in the UK is a lot harder and not helped by the general population hating your guts for being successful.
But as I said - it mostly evens out. I don't want to move to the US. I went there to help my employer and exchange information and practices and I was happy to come back. I saw a lot of America in those months as I visited their various offices. It's still all relative though. If you grow up in a place you become used to it. You think it's normal - I think it's large. You might want to try coming here for six months. I love it but you'll probably think you're living in a shoebox and that the entire country is overrun by traffic jams. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Ceirah
SUBLIME L.L.C. SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.27 09:32:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Happy Merchant well lets see, here in the US our nation minimum wage is what 5.45 an hour... what is the minimum wage in europe... something like 10 euro .... I could be wrong but you need to lower your minimum wage to match ours before you make a stink about unfair pay.
I live in EU (Estonia) minimum wage here is 1.75 euros/hr. I dont know where do you take your numbers from.
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Inconstant Moon
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.27 10:57:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Andrue Do you also love reducing CCP's revenue by 50%?
...because that's what you're doing.
With the state of things at the moment, nothing would give me greater pleasure.
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Fish Fingers
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Posted - 2008.03.31 09:39:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Fish Fingers on 31/03/2008 09:39:20
Originally by: Happy Merchant well lets see, here in the US our nation minimum wage is what 5.45 an hour... what is the minimum wage in europe... something like 10 euro .... I could be wrong but you need to lower your minimum wage to match ours before you make a stink about unfair pay.
Are you for real? Do you know the tax levels in Europe compared to the american ones?
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F'nog
Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce
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Posted - 2008.03.31 09:51:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Fish Fingers Edited by: Fish Fingers on 31/03/2008 09:39:20
Originally by: Happy Merchant well lets see, here in the US our nation minimum wage is what 5.45 an hour... what is the minimum wage in europe... something like 10 euro .... I could be wrong but you need to lower your minimum wage to match ours before you make a stink about unfair pay.
Are you for real? Do you know the tax levels in Europe compared to the american ones?
You should really begin by attacking their minimum wage number, which is much higher in many states.
But I digress...
HOW has this gone to so many pages when countless others have died off after less?
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
F'nog for Amarr Emperor. Nuff said
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Sal Steiner
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.03.31 17:03:00 -
[107]
This is the first time in history the US has gotten a "better price" on anything. We pay more for medicine. Why? Because they can get away with charging more here, so we pay the R&D bill. With WoW Americans got to pay an extra $10 on the Burning Crusade expansion so that Asian countries could get it drastically reduced/free.
Lower/Middle class Americans are in a huge squeeze right now, partially because of the plummeting dollar. The people arent trying to make their currency worth nothing.
Don't begrudge America for getting a good deal for once in their lives on something, particularly when times are the toughest now on working Americans since the great depression.
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Estel Arador
AFK
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Posted - 2008.03.31 17:10:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Sal Steiner Don't begrudge America for getting a good deal for once in their lives on something, particularly when times are the toughest now on working Americans since the great depression.
Ah, your economy is going downhill faster than a T2 nano-frigate with an officer MWD engaged and you're still seeing the 'good deals' you're getting. Good for you!
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