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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
275
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Posted - 2012.03.07 11:04:00 -
[1111] - Quote
Mikron Alexarr wrote:
Yes, flexibility is the point here. Leave the ships to be flexible without specializing them so much that they have only one viable role. Tech 3 ships are wildly popular, because they follow this philosophy.
The cormy was a good salvager for me, because I had that racial frigate at the time and I think it had good fitting for salvage tackle. It's been awhile though.
Problem with T1 small ships is that they are just way too limited in overall capacity to be decent jack-of-all-trades. Giving the T1 EWAR frigs combat abilities means that their EWAR needs to be gimped to not make them totally OP- which makes them suck in the ewar role. Same goes for cruisers, for example Exequror stinks as logi and as combat ship.
Disclaimer: I'm aware of execptions, I've flown the Celestis a lot. There are still 10 sucky ships to every exception, and it's because they try to be a little bit of everything, and end up with not much of anything.
I like the idea of higher specialisation as a remedy to the unused hulls, and increasing training times for the T2 versions. This could result in more funky ships like Celestises, Blackbirds and Ospreys fielded as role-ships. Making these into general combat ships is boring imo and also much harder to balance. |
Miura Bull
Black Rebel Rifter Club
17
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Posted - 2012.03.07 11:09:00 -
[1112] - Quote
Umm. Is this a troll? |
leich
Nocturnal Romance
19
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Posted - 2012.03.07 11:09:00 -
[1113] - Quote
They have mentioned skill reinbursement for people who already have BC skills
what about char that dont have BC skills but now due to the stupid changes require them like Nyx holding alts.
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Jagga Spikes
Spikes Chop Shop
66
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Posted - 2012.03.07 11:15:00 -
[1114] - Quote
leich wrote:They have mentioned skill reinbursement for people who already have BC skills
what about char that dont have BC skills but now due to the stupid changes require them like Nyx holding alts.
BC 4 wouldn't be required to pilot Nyx. it would only be required to *train* Nyx skills. |
Carniflex
StarHunt
Broken Toys
16
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Posted - 2012.03.07 11:19:00 -
[1115] - Quote
I thinked over it.
This is not a bad idea. There is some pitfalls ofc involved but with careful navigation this might work out well.
So in a nutshell it would mean that Destroyer, Battlecruiser, Interceptor, Interdictor, HAC, command ship, Logi, etc skills would just converted flatly into the new racial variants (in effect granting these with those skills 3x SP boost over the current number in these skills) and to train these skills the new prerequisties would be presented. Could you please also convert clones automatically one tick up if this change would push pilots over the current clone limit.
Pre requisites are not needed to fly the ships. Unless they are attached to hull itself. I remeber when the skill to control POS guns was changed. It used to be x4 rank skill that did nothing and it changed to x7 skill that allows one to control POS guns. At that time I lacked the new prerequistite (Anchoring 5), but as I had the "old" skill at lev 2 I ended up with new skill at lev 1 and could still control a single POS gun a day one even if I lacked the pre requisties to train the skill any higher. Had to do Anchoring 5 to be able to start training the skill.
In a nutshell its similar to how things go if you get podded and lose some SP in a skill that is pre requisite for training the skill for the ship you usually fly, but which is not actually needed for sitting in that hull.
As far as the ship changes go I'll hold my judgement until I see the changes. |
Echo Mande
21
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Posted - 2012.03.07 11:22:00 -
[1116] - Quote
Jagga Spikes wrote:leich wrote:They have mentioned skill reinbursement for people who already have BC skills
what about char that dont have BC skills but now due to the stupid changes require them like Nyx holding alts.
BC 4 wouldn't be required to pilot Nyx. it would only be required to *train* Nyx skills.
From my reading I would put it a bit different. Prerequisites are only required to *inject* a skill. So a Nyx alt would AFAIK only need BC skill to inject Nyx skills requiring BC skill. I'll admit it's been a theoretical issue for me though. |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
0
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Posted - 2012.03.07 11:27:00 -
[1117] - Quote
Quote:Or the Gallente drone and dampening abilities stop with the Exequror? Well that certainly explains why Gallente has been so f'd-up for so long... Honestly CCP. I resub with the hopes that you're finally figuring #$^! out and fixing your game. And then you give us comments like this? Christ. |
Giullare
Insurgent New Eden Tribe
RAZOR Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.03.07 11:27:00 -
[1118] - Quote
To all people saying " ccp said bc skill point will be refounded " i ask:
Why should i train racial bc to V, read again FIVE, to max ships i've already maxed?
If someone can fly only lets say cyclone, cane and tornado the bc V refound will cover minmatar bc V, but for the people who crosstrained it's not enough. We have 1 bc V refound and 4 racial bc skill to train, anybody can see the difference??? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5424
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Posted - 2012.03.07 11:27:00 -
[1119] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:You retrain your tank and ewar skills everytime you crosstrain somehow? I had to retrain my tank at least once, since there are two tanking style, and yes, each race has its own ewar specialityGǪ and if we were talking about T2 ships rather than just T1, I'd add the entire leadership branch for each race as well.
Quote:If youa re crosstraining, you already have the support skills to specialize. I'm not talking about the support skills GÇö I'm talking about the role skills, which will no longer be needed when you skip between sizes and tiers. Want to specialise in HACs? Now you can specialise in HACs without having to bother with AFs (and with AFs out of the way, you don't feel you're wasting SP by not training Frigates V). Want to specialise in command ships? Now you can specialise in command ships without having to bother with AFs, HAC, and Logistics (and with those out of the way, you don't feel you're wasting SP by not training Frigates and Cruisers V). So: you can specialise earlier; you get further faster.
Quote:Its a mechanics problem. Doctrine Fleets will always follow a FOTM pattern. GǪand now that the FOTM pattern changes, the doctrines will follow. The problem will solve itself.
Quote:And I must ask, which skill is popular for personal use? BC? Yup. If you get the weapons for it (which you do when you cross-train) the BC skill is pretty much never wasted.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
293
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Posted - 2012.03.07 11:29:00 -
[1120] - Quote
Giullare wrote:To all people saying " ccp said bc skill point will be refounded " i ask:
Why should i train racial bc to V, read again FIVE, to max ships i've already maxed?
If someone can fly only lets say cyclone, cane and tornado the bc V refound will cover minmatar bc V, but for the people who crosstrained it's not enough. We have 1 bc V refound and 4 racial bc skill to train, anybody can see the difference???
Go read the links from the first post.
Specifically https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=900335#post900335
Quote:
Destroyer and Battlecruiser reimbursement: it has been said before, but allow us to repeat again, that we do not want to cut ships you can already fly. Thus, having BC skill at 5 would mean you get all four variations at 5.
FuzzWork Enterprises
http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/
Blueprint calculator and other 'useful' utilities. |
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Jagga Spikes
Spikes Chop Shop
66
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Posted - 2012.03.07 11:35:00 -
[1121] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Giullare wrote:To all people saying " ccp said bc skill point will be refounded " i ask:
Why should i train racial bc to V, read again FIVE, to max ships i've already maxed?
If someone can fly only lets say cyclone, cane and tornado the bc V refound will cover minmatar bc V, but for the people who crosstrained it's not enough. We have 1 bc V refound and 4 racial bc skill to train, anybody can see the difference??? Go read the links from the first post. Specifically https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=900335#post900335Quote:
Destroyer and Battlecruiser reimbursement: it has been said before, but allow us to repeat again, that we do not want to cut ships you can already fly. Thus, having BC skill at 5 would mean you get all four variations at 5.
Malcanis Law at work :) |
Akara Ito
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
54
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Posted - 2012.03.07 11:36:00 -
[1122] - Quote
The Devblog says T1 ships will need the lower class skills at 4 and T2 ships will need it at 5; does that mean Orca requirements will be lowered to Mining Barge 4 while JF will be upped to Freighter V ? |
Katarina Reid
Jump.Jump.Jump.
131
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Posted - 2012.03.07 11:42:00 -
[1123] - Quote
is bs 5 getting refunded as its not needed for cap pilots? |
RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
180
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Posted - 2012.03.07 11:47:00 -
[1124] - Quote
I generally like but I'd would suggest that BS5 is kept for capitals
http://eveboard.com/ub/419190933-134.png
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Carmizan
DOCS RUFF RIDERS
Free Beer.
15
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Posted - 2012.03.07 11:56:00 -
[1125] - Quote
TBH i am not worried about the skill point reimbursement if what they say they do ie if your have BC to lvl5 now you will get all 4 racial BC skills to lvl 5.
The one concern i have with this is the increase in SP that could take most if not all the pilots that have these ships crossed trained over their clone's SP limit and bearing in mind te pilots that would be in WH space and unable to ject to a station to upgrade.
Will CCP be looking into this issue at the same time? |
Tub Chil
Heretic University
Heretic Nation
16
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Posted - 2012.03.07 11:56:00 -
[1126] - Quote
removing common battlecruiser skill is a horrible idea. removing tiers is great, nobody will argue with that |
Grikath
T.E.L.O.G.S.
24
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Posted - 2012.03.07 11:59:00 -
[1127] - Quote
Katarina Reid wrote:is bs 5 getting refunded as its not needed for cap pilots?
Why would they refund BS V? That one is already racial, and in the new scheme would give access to the T2 BS.
I see no "waste" SP there to be refunded.
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Ryoko Matsu
Community against Justice
ROMANIAN-LEGION
2
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Posted - 2012.03.07 12:02:00 -
[1128] - Quote
*\o/*
great news about dropping the tier system!
also no problem regarding the "new" skill system...
but:
the policy "if you could fly it yesterday, you can still fly it today"
in general what do you intend here?
let-¦s say i have BC5
will that change to let-¦s say Amarr BC 5
and the rest on 3 (to fly all the tiers)
or will the reimbursement so that i can fly all racial BC at 5? (having the prerequs...)
just wondering... |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
293
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Posted - 2012.03.07 12:05:00 -
[1129] - Quote
Ryoko Matsu wrote:*\o/*
great news about dropping the tier system!
also no problem regarding the "new" skill system...
but:
the policy "if you could fly it yesterday, you can still fly it today"
in general what do you intend here?
let-¦s say i have BC5
will that change to let-¦s say Amarr BC 5
and the rest on 3 (to fly all the tiers)
or will the reimbursement so that i can fly all racial BC at 5? (having the prerequs...)
just wondering...
Go read the first post. Go to the third link on the first post. Profit.
FuzzWork Enterprises
http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/
Blueprint calculator and other 'useful' utilities. |
Valea Silpha
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
42
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Posted - 2012.03.07 12:06:00 -
[1130] - Quote
Assuming that what's been said here translates to the game, then I love the changes and by extension; you guys  .
I know its been said before, but be really really certain that we're going to stay at all fives. Cuz if you think you've seen pissed off vets on the forums before... Well... April Fools is coming up... Post it like that and see what happens. Our rage will be comparable to a gamma ray burst.
Just as a random question... How do the changes effect fully speccing BC and dessie ships ? It seems to me that you gain time with one racial BC, but eventually you'll end up a fair way behind. Now I'm not too fussy about that, because noobies get it too easy these days anyway, but it is worth noting.
To all you guys who want BS 5's reimbursed: SUCK IT UP. If you only trained BS 5 for capitals you are terrible to the nth power. Wanna know whats awesome ? Vindicators. Try them sometime. *shakes head*. |
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Katarina Reid
Jump.Jump.Jump.
131
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Posted - 2012.03.07 12:10:00 -
[1131] - Quote
if i have bc 4.5 do i get lvl 4 all race or all race 4.5? |
Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
46
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Posted - 2012.03.07 12:21:00 -
[1132] - Quote
This is a great idea! Cleaning up the roles and ship types will open new possibilities. Also splitting up the destroyer skills is a good and consistent idea even tough the whole reimbursement of SP will be tricky. |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe
EVE Corporation 123566322353
132
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Posted - 2012.03.07 12:25:00 -
[1133] - Quote
I LOVE YOU CCP! DEATH TO TIERS!!! |
Mai Khumm
Apple Construction Inc
Northern Associates.
181
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Posted - 2012.03.07 12:27:00 -
[1134] - Quote
My only objection is not needing lvl 5 skills to move up the ship chain. If they did lvl 5 frigate needed for destroyers, lvl 5 destroyers needed for cruisers, lvl 5 cruisers needed for battlecruisers. and etc. I would be in full support of it. Otherwise, not needing level 5 skills to jump into Capitals, now that's just plain dumb...
"Being drunk is a good disguise. I drink so I can talk to a**holes. This includes me." |
Wacktopia
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
208
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Posted - 2012.03.07 12:27:00 -
[1135] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all. As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change. EDIT SO PEOPLE CAN SEE IT:
- New destroyer and battlecruiser skills would be same rank than existing ones
- We have a "if you could fly it before, you can fly it now" philosophy, that means properly reimbursing/giving skills not to leave people stranded in ships they could fly before the change. Again, nothing is fixed yet.
MOAR STUFF HERE FOLKS (skills, confusing picture, apology to CSM).
I have racial BS's to V, Cruiser to V and BC to V. I would hope this translates into having the racial BC skill to V by default when you roll this stuff out?
/rhetoricalquestion
Edit: Current link suggests yes. Hopefully this holds true.
Vote Alekseyev Karrde for CSM7. -áhttp://community.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=433
Get War Decs, Sov, Low Sec that works.-á |
Raiz Nhell
DEEP CORPS
47
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Posted - 2012.03.07 12:31:00 -
[1136] - Quote
Change is good, I like the idea of the split and lack of tiers...
I also love the ignorance and "jump the gun" rage in this thread... So many shout "CCP have ruined the game for me" without reading or comprehending...
Make the changes, they'll be great...
I'm so carebear my Pod bleeds rainbow...
Beers + nullsec + dodgy fit = Loss mail |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe
EVE Corporation 123566322353
132
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Posted - 2012.03.07 12:32:00 -
[1137] - Quote
:) they could.. just to be a little conservative... not give the racial BC level if they didn't have the cruiser skill trained for that race... :) just an idea |
Sunviking
The Shining Knights
16
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Posted - 2012.03.07 12:32:00 -
[1138] - Quote
I do not think removal of the generic BC and Dest skills are all that bad.
As for people having to retrain their racial battlecruisers skills, Tier1 ships of most Tech1 ship classes are going buffed, so you will be getting a benefit from more capable battlecruisers anyway. If you need to retrain some Battlecruisers skills then so be it.
Also, if you have Battlecruisers at 5 and can fly all races' Battlecruisers currently, but only have 1 or 2 Racial Cruiser skills to 5, then if CCP gives you all Racial Battlecruisers skills to 5 as reimbursement, clearly you are going to be able to fly all race's Command Ships immediately when you couldnt have done so before the change, due to Cruisers not being a requirement for Command Ships anymore... So that would be a net benefit to all the crosstrainers, something that CCP needs to avoid, to stop these crosstrainers having too easy a time. So DON'T give them the Racial Battlecruisers skills to enable them to get to level 5, because many of them will then be able to automatically fly ships they couldn't have done before.
I suspect that there are some people out there with alterior motives for being reimbursed with all Racial Battlecruiser skills. |
David Grogan
The Motley Crew Reborn
309
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Posted - 2012.03.07 12:33:00 -
[1139] - Quote
this would only work if ccp seeded the cerebral accelerator implant on the market making it available to all players for at least 6 months to facilitate the change over process
that way those who cross trained can quickly restore their ability to use all the ships this change would remove.
Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs. |
Galphii
Furnulum pani nolo
THE SPACE P0LICE
34
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Posted - 2012.03.07 12:34:00 -
[1140] - Quote
The way it was described, CCP is going to adjust ship stats and capabilities base on role instead of tier. Slow heavy hitters, fast, lightly armoured strike craft etc. This clearly means that ships within the same faction fleet will have differing capabilities. Does it mean, however, that Minmatar ships will no longer be all fast, and Amarr/Caldari as much slower ships overall? Will Amarr pilots have the choice between a slow, heavily armoured cruiser as well as a fast, hunter/killer ship as well? It's an interesting thought in terms of how to rebalance the factions, instead of just having a race that's all speed, another race that only does armour tanking etc.
Oh, and the way I see it, if the ships that are kinda useless atm become useful, cross-training is less essential. Players have had to cherry-pick the good ships from the different races in order to excel, and this may well come to an end in the future. |
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