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Taedrin Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.05.26 01:49:00 - [61] Originally by: Sphynx Stormlord Would a smartbomb setup be effective to decloak them? On a fast(ish) ship, to get close to their position. Smartbombs do not decloak cloaked ships. They deal damage, but do not decloak, IIRC.
Doctor Serious	Posted - 2008.05.26 02:08:00 - [62] Originally by: joshmorris USing this tactic you can travel through low sec with 0 risk if your not a moron. That just makes low sec no risk .... EVE is about taking risks to get better rewards. Imo this should be classed as an exploit. There is always risk. I use a scout as well as this trick, and even with that there is some risk as long as there is anyone else in the system other than my accounts. I'm sure CCP will listen when you say alt accounts should be classed as an exploit (and laugh), and trial account shouldn't be allowed in low-sec or something. Sounds like you pirates are developing a sense of entitlement. You now have a ship that can hold down even the stabbiest of targets, and yet you people still complain. Why am I not surprised?
Doctor Serious	Posted - 2008.05.26 02:12:00 - [63] Edited by: Doctor Serious on 26/05/2008 02:14:26 Originally by: Matrix Skye Edited by: Matrix Skye on 23/05/2008 17:23:33 There should always be risk for everyone in low sec, not just those passing through gate camps. As it stands you could camp a gate and profit from it with 0 risk if you're not a moron. By using your logic gatecamping should also be considered an exploit. Indeed I have camped gates with a scout on the remote end. There's less risk in doing that than there is in scouting a hauler through inhabited space. Perhaps what we need to do is classify scouts as an exploit... instaban for assembling a covops. Yeah. ps. it's pointless to do anything about this and leave ctrl-q as it is anyway, especially if you're dealing with larger ships vs smallish camps.
Rawr Cristina Naqam Project Alice.	Posted - 2008.05.26 05:38:00 - [64] Originally by: Matrix Skye ................ Your victims are adapting. Why can't you? No Adapting is fitting for travel. Adapting is bringing friends. Adapting is having someone scout you before blindly jumping onwards. Cloak-Warp trick has no counter whatsoever in low-sec, and works on all kinds of ships - even some T1 Haulers. It IS technically an exploit, a result of the Microwarpdrive not actually deactivating till the end of it's cycle when you cloak, allowing someone to activate both modules at once and still recieve a healthy speed boost. I'd love to hear an official CCP stance on this. ...
AntonioBanderas The Bastards	Posted - 2008.05.26 09:52:00 - [65] Edited by: AntonioBanderas on 26/05/2008 09:51:50 yadda-yadda-yadda tl;dr anyway, if a fat ass BATTLESHIP pulls that trick on you (OMG 3 battleships) than you guys FAIL in gatecamping and eve in general I can say ASS \o/ yay!!!
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.05.26 11:41:00 - [66] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Cloak-Warp trick has no counter whatsoever in low-sec, and works on all kinds of ships - even some T1 Haulers. It IS technically an exploit, a result of the Microwarpdrive not actually deactivating till the end of it's cycle when you cloak, allowing someone to activate both modules at once and still recieve a healthy speed boost. I'd love to hear an official CCP stance on this. It has a counter (you need to figure it out just like myself and others did) but the counter is not 100% guaranteed to work just like the mwd/cloak/warp trick can be screwed up and not work. It is NOT a exploit as many modules including sensor boosters, tracking computers, hardeners and all other modules finish their cycle time even if you cloak.
Matrix Skye	Posted - 2008.05.26 12:52:00 - [67] Originally by: Rawr Cristina It IS technically an exploit, a result of the Microwarpdrive not actually deactivating till the end of it's cycle when you cloak, allowing someone to activate both modules at once and still recieve a healthy speed boost. I'd love to hear an official CCP stance on this. But it ISN'T technically an exploit. CCP has said no such thing. For all we know it's working as intended. And suggesting someone ask a friend to jump ahead for every low sec jump in low sec is unrealistic and ridiculous. You might say we only need to ask for those low sec jumps that are usually camped. But we all know once that catches on the lazy cry rats will just move one low sec jump away. Lazy cry rats have it way too easy in Eve. They cry every time their easy cash cows are made challenging. When in reality gate camping is easier, profitable, and even more mind-numbingly boring than any PVE profession. The cry rats are the true carebears of Eve. Right now the Risk VS. Rewards on gate camping is out of whack and needs to be balanced with a reasonable solution. Not any of this 'alt scout' or 'use a friend every time you jump' bull**** solution. There needs to be a realistic and reasonable solution.
Demitria Fernir Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.05.26 13:34:00 - [68] i once tried to gank out an industrial-type with cloak trick setup, with a 5900 scan res crusader. did not work :( it's a powerfull trick if you can use it wisely, and ,until CCP say otherwise, it's not classed as exploit :\| 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101001 I will Conquer My Signature Somewhere in the future 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101001
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.05.26 14:36:00 - [69] Originally by: Matrix Skye Edited by: Matrix Skye on 26/05/2008 13:08:55 Originally by: Rawr Cristina It IS technically an exploit, a result of the Microwarpdrive not actually deactivating till the end of it's cycle when you cloak, allowing someone to activate both modules at once and still recieve a healthy speed boost. I'd love to hear an official CCP stance on this. But it ISN'T technically an exploit. CCP has said no such thing. For all we know it's working as intended. And suggesting someone ask a friend to jump ahead for every low sec jump in low sec is unrealistic and ridiculous. You might say we only need to ask for those low sec jumps that are usually camped. But we all know once that catches on the lazy cry rats will just move one low sec jump away. Lazy cry rats have it way too easy in Eve. And they want to play Eve on easy mode. They cry every time their easy cash cows are made challenging. When in reality gate camping is easier, profitable, and even more mind-numbingly boring than any PVE profession. The cry rats are the true carebears of Eve. Right now the Risk VS. Rewards on gate camping is out of whack and needs to be balanced with a reasonable solution. Not any of this 'alt scout' or 'use a friend every time you jump' bull**** solution. There needs to be a realistic and reasonable solution. If Eve is becoming too hard a game for the cry rats maybe they should go camp spawn points in a easy FPS. Eve certainly doesnt seem like it's cut out for them. Eve should be hard for all players. Why should they get a break from this cold hard place? tee hee - he said 'cry rats' SKUNK
Jogvan Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.05.26 14:50:00 - [70] I haven't seen a lot of people doing this trick, some blockade runners only. Doing it in a BS is probably harder, because of the slow align time. These who do the mwd + cloak trick are normally smart players. If they didn't have that option they would just find some other way around your camp. If your camp has been up for a while there should be a nice collection of wrecks around the gate. Don't pop them, they might help you against the cloakers, and possibly even make you catch cov ops/recons
Rawr Cristina Naqam Project Alice.	Posted - 2008.05.26 19:49:00 - [71] Originally by: lecrotta It has a counter (you need to figure it out just like myself and others did) but the counter is not 100% guaranteed to work... No, the chances of it working are closer to what? 10%? You call that a counter? That's like calling 1400mm artillery a counter to Interceptors, because it might get a wrecking hit. Quote: It is NOT a exploit as many modules including sensor boosters, tracking computers, hardeners and all other modules finish their cycle time even if you cloak. Erm, so does the MWD. None of them deactivate instantly upon cloak, but rather wait until their cycle is finished. In the MWD's case the cycle is long enough to get to align speed, cloaked. Quote: But it ISN'T technically an exploit. CCP has said no such thing. For all we know it's working as intended. Just because CCP dosen't ban you for it, dosen't mean it's not an exploit. Insta-bookmarks were an exploit too, remember? MWD+Cloak trick is a result of an oversight in the game mechanics. CCP most certainly didn't design it to be able to do this. Whether or not they accept it's functionality though is another matter. ...
Matrix Skye	Posted - 2008.05.26 20:33:00 - [72] Originally by: Rawr Cristina MWD+Cloak trick is a result of an oversight in the game mechanics. CCP most certainly didn't design it to be able to do this. Just as gang mechanics weren't designed to gank players in high sec. Just as the second and third slots of your account character screen weren't designed so you can shop in high sec for your pirate main. Just as ship collision wasnt designed to bump ships away from stations and gates. Just as gates weren't designed for high rewards and low risk spawn camping. Just as bounties werent designed for self-podding free isk. Just as cloaks werent designed so you can play afk. Just as nanos werent designed as a get-out-of-pvp-for-free ships. Quote: Whether or not they accept it's functionality though is another matter. And it is NOT an exploit just because you and other cry rats don't like this being used against your fish-on-a-barrel shooting spree. You're upset because ships arent staying put while you shoot them while they spawn. The bottom line is that players are adapting and sitting on your ass shooting ships at their spawn points is not as effective. If you have a brain stem you can camp a spawn point risk-free. You're now throwing a tantrum at CCP because your targets aren't staying put. So now gatecamping is low risk low rewards, as it should have been long ago. Risk vs rewards is what Eve is all about. Deal with it.
Rawr Cristina Naqam Project Alice.	Posted - 2008.05.26 22:01:00 - [73] Originally by: Matrix Skye Originally by: Rawr Cristina MWD+Cloak trick is a result of an oversight in the game mechanics. CCP most certainly didn't design it to be able to do this. Just as gang mechanics weren't designed to gank players in high sec. Just as the second and third slots of your account character screen weren't designed so you can shop in high sec for your pirate main. Just as ship collision wasnt designed to bump ships away from stations and gates. Just as gates weren't designed for high rewards and low risk spawn camping. Just as bounties werent designed for self-podding free isk. Just as cloaks werent designed so you can play afk. Just as nanos werent designed as a get-out-of-pvp-for-free ships. are you just making these up now? Okay, so gang mechanics may need some looking-at, but as for the rest of you list... please (You also forgot Freighter Logoffski - but I guess you think that's fine too as anything that keeps you safe, regardless what it is, is obviously balanced) Quote: And it is NOT an exploit just because you and other cry rats don't like this being used against your fish-on-a-barrel shooting spree. Erm, for one, I don't pirate, so I'm not losing out to this. I USE this exploit, and will keep on using it until CCP does something about it. Same deal with aforemented Freighter logoffski letting me fly my Charon through low-sec unscouted, unescorted and 99.99% risk-free. Quote: So now gatecamping is low risk low rewards, as it should have been long ago. Risk vs rewards is what Eve is all about. Deal with it. Uh... hypocrite much? Low-sec campers are taking a massive risk camping gates. Just because they're not likely to die to some hauler, dosen't mean they can't get blobbed by the next passing gang, baited, hotdropped, jammed, bumped off the gate and whatever else. People who use the MWD+Cloak trick, on the other hand, are evading said camps with complete immunity. except to maybe a horrible lagspike. They're the ones getting their rewards risk-free. ...
Matrix Skye	Posted - 2008.05.26 22:13:00 - [74] Edited by: Matrix Skye on 26/05/2008 22:16:54 Unless you're taking a nap while camping or you're just a total moron spawn-camping IS risk free. The best we can hope for when atttacking a gate camp is to break it up and maybe catch the occasional afk gate camper. They all run like hell as soon as we jump in. Yes, occasionally we catch the brain-dead ones. But then again campers shouldnt complain considering they catch most slow ships. Stop pretending like gate camping has some art to it when it doesnt. It's easy isk with extremely low risk. It shouldnt be banned. But neither should MWD+cloak. The cry rats' easy money maker is in jeopardy and it's why they're crying to get this classified as an exploit. Cry rats need to stop being lazy and face the risks just like all other professions in low sec and 00.
Rawr Cristina Naqam Project Alice.	Posted - 2008.05.26 22:18:00 - [75] Originally by: Matrix Skye Unless you're taking a nap while camping or you're just a total moron spawn-camping IS risk free. ... They all run like hell as soon as we jump in. It's called Bait. ...
Cypher Run	Posted - 2008.05.26 22:23:00 - [76] Edited by: Cypher Run on 26/05/2008 22:35:29 Edited by: Cypher Run on 26/05/2008 22:23:22 Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: Matrix Skye Unless you're taking a nap while camping or you're just a total moron spawn-camping IS risk free. ... They all run like hell as soon as we jump in. It's called Bait. We're familiar with bait. Except that gate campers have alts on other sides of systems CLOAKED.. Like I said, unless you're clueless running spawn camps, they're pretty much immune. They see us coming a mile away. Its virtually a RISK FREE profession when done by cry rats awake at the wheel. And that's not an exploit, as MWD+cloak shouldnt be either. I swear cry rats are the biggest cry babies in this game always wanting the game spoon-fed to them. No profession in Eve should be low risk-high rewards, especially in low sec and 00.
Tal Nok DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2008.05.27 12:46:00 - [77] Originally by: Matrix Skye Edited by: Matrix Skye on 24/05/2008 17:09:01 I believe you addressed my post with: Originally by: Tal Nok ^^ noob poster above me ^^ Not exactly much to comprehend there is there? . It's my fault your parents made you feebleminded? No. Read my first post before continuing to make your self look like an idiot. Originally by: CCP Mitnal Forum gods ANGRY. Need sacrifice.
Matrix Skye	Posted - 2008.05.27 13:02:00 - [78] Originally by: Tal Nok It's my fault your parents made you feebleminded? No. Read my first post before continuing to make your self look like an idiot. Oh my, the hate posts from you cry rats are so original . You know your shooting-fish-in-a-barrel days are over and so you rely on personal insults because you don't have a leg to stand on. Boo-hoo. Cry me a river, cry rat.
Tal Nok DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2008.05.27 13:14:00 - [79] Originally by: Matrix Skye Just as gang mechanics weren't designed to gank players in high sec. Possible oversight? Originally by: Matrix Skye Just as the second and third slots of your account character screen weren't designed so you can shop in high sec for your pirate main. So instead of using the two other character spaces, I should leave them blank as intended? What do you think the $5 transfer fee is for? I surely didn't get somthing where I should make an "O" face. Originally by: Matrix Skye Just as ship collision wasnt designed to bump ships away from stations and gates. It wasn't? Then what was it for, if you happened to randomly bump in the vastness of space? Please tell me since you seem to be a dev, what exactly was it intended for? Originally by: Matrix Skye Just as gates weren't designed for high rewards and low risk spawn camping. Have you gate camped before? Without proper scouting, you can get caught with your pants down, and get wtf pwned by a 20 man blob if they sent bait in. I risk an abso everytime I sit on that gate. You think your 4 Cargo Expander II's are going to fully pay for an abso + fittings if I go pop after finding you 500k ship was just bait for a 5bil fleet on the other side? Please, cry more. Originally by: Matrix Skye Just as bounties werent designed for self-podding free isk. Ok, I got nothing on that one. Originally by: Matrix Skye Just as cloaks werent designed so you can play afk. No, cloaks are there so you can stare at empty space all day long while your camped and bubbled into a single system. Or freak 0.0 bears out when you might pop them if they go to a belt. Originally by: Matrix Skye Just as nanos werent designed as a get-out-of-pvp-for-free ships. Is this the "I can't go as fast as you, NERF YOUR SHIP FITTINGS" whine? You can fit them to. Learn to fly your ship. Also, technically, they were designed to reduce the mass of your ship, but as I pointed out earlier, reading comprehension ftw. Originally by: Matrix Skye And it is NOT an exploit just because you and other cry rats don't like this being used against your fish-on-a-barrel shooting spree. 1. What's a "cry rats"? 2. Perhaps you should use one of those "extra character slots that are there for show only" as you incline them to be, and scout yourself through? Originally by: Matrix Skye You're upset because ships arent staying put while you shoot them while they spawn. No, I'm upset that your still posting, I'm upset that 50% of ships that come through a gate that I'm "camping" only has T1 named or better. I want faction and officer loot. Originally by: Matrix Skye The bottom line is that players are adapting and sitting on your ass shooting ships at their spawn points is not as effective. That's funny, because I coulda sworn we adapted when warp to zero came about. Instead of sitting on the outgoing gate, we sit on the incomming gate. That required movement that us pirates don't like. Since the risk/rewards thing you talk about below here, not a lot of people are actually in the belts. When they are, one of two things happen: 1. They are bait for a larger force behind another gate, or looking for an uber solo showdown. 2. They are a noob and didn't pay attention to the big "warning you will get blown up" sign. So, with that in mind, and the fact we can't use bubbles, oh wait. Gate camping is pretty viable. Originally by: Matrix Skye If you have a brain stem you can camp a spawn point risk-free. You're now throwing a tantrumat CCP because your targets aren't staying put. So now gatecamping is low risk low rewards, as it should have been long ago. Risk vs rewards is what Eve is all about. Deal with it. Irony. I've also pointed out for the most part everything wrong in your above statement. For those who think TLDR Matrix needs to stop posting. Originally by: CCP Mitnal Forum gods ANGRY. Need sacrifice.
Tal Nok DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2008.05.27 13:18:00 - [80] Originally by: Matrix Skye Originally by: Tal Nok It's my fault your parents made you feebleminded? No. Read my first post before continuing to make your self look like an idiot. Oh my, the hate posts from you cry rats are so original . You know your shooting-fish-in-a-barrel days are over and so you rely on personal insults because you don't have a leg to stand on. Boo-hoo. Cry me a river, cry rat. You still havn't read the post, which means your still making yourself look like an idiot. I can keep this up all day, because I'm seriously bored at work. I rely on personal insults because it gets you going apparently. I also point out in most of my posts facts/mechanics to back them up. You - do not. At least, not legitimate ones. Originally by: CCP Mitnal Forum gods ANGRY. Need sacrifice.
Case Mass Griefers On Demand And More	Posted - 2008.05.27 13:22:00 - [81] Originally by: Matrix Skye Originally by: Tal Nok It's my fault your parents made you feebleminded? No. Read my first post before continuing to make your self look like an idiot. Oh my, the hate posts from you cry rats are so original . You know your shooting-fish-in-a-barrel days are over and so you rely on personal insults because you don't have a leg to stand on. Boo-hoo. Cry me a river, cry rat. good reading skills you got there matrix you really showed him!
Matrix Skye	Posted - 2008.05.27 13:41:00 - [82] Edited by: Matrix Skye on 27/05/2008 13:42:34 There is nothing in his first post that even refutes the fact that gate camping if done by anyone other than chimpanzees is risk free. I have already told you cry rats as long as you keep alts on the other side of gates you are pretty much immune to bait. Only way to catch an efficient gate camp is by setting up a lame log-in trap. Fine. Gate camps, if done correctly are RISK FREE. MWD+cloak, if done correctly is RISK FREE. If one is right the other one is right. If one is wrong, they're both wrong. Stop being cry babies asking CCP to dumb down the game for you while making it harder for the rest of us that already work for our rewards.
Tal Nok DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2008.05.27 13:59:00 - [83] Originally by: Matrix Skye Edited by: Matrix Skye on 27/05/2008 13:42:34 There is nothing in his first post that even refutes the fact that gate camping if done by anyone other than chimpanzees is risk free. I have already told you cry rats as long as you keep alts on the other side of gates you are pretty much immune to bait. Only way to catch an efficient gate camp is by setting up a lame log-in trap. Fine. Gate camps, if done correctly are RISK FREE. MWD+cloak, if done correctly is RISK FREE. If one is right the other one is right. If one is wrong, they're both wrong. Stop being cry babies asking CCP to dumb down the game for you while making it harder for the rest of us that already work for our rewards. Ok, I see you have some serious reading issues and have made yet another unintelligent post. My first post was in reguards to people comprehending the simplicity (or at least I thought) the mechanics of stopping the mwd+cloak ordeal. Not about being risk free. If you read my elongated post where I shred yours to parts (which is above here somewhere), you will find what you thought you were looking for just a moment ago. Not once did I mention anything about logon traps as metagamining is purely for pansies who still live in thier mothers basement (sorry, command center). Matrix, apparently you havn't played long enough to realize that: In low sec you gain HP (makes you harder to kill) In low sec, you can't use bubbles or dictors (with the exception of the heavy dictor infinipoint(tm) which makes you harder to kill) There is warp to 0 (which makes you harder to kill since you no longer have to fly 15km to the gate) Working hard for your rewards? Please, being a bear allows you to at least afk. I still have to click twice. Originally by: CCP Mitnal Forum gods ANGRY. Need sacrifice.
Faife Noctiscion	Posted - 2008.05.27 16:44:00 - [84] everytime i run a gate camp i smile when i hear those little tears roll down the cheeks onto the campers keyboards it's true.
Matrix Skye	Posted - 2008.05.27 17:17:00 - [85] Edited by: Matrix Skye on 27/05/2008 17:20:04 Originally by: Tal Nok In low sec you gain HP (makes you harder to kill) WTF are you even mumbling here? Quote: In low sec, you can't use bubbles or dictors (with the exception of the heavy dictor infinipoint(tm) which makes you harder to kill) What does this even have to do with me and my gang not being able to kill the crying gate campers? HELLO? I'm arguing that camps are just as invulnerable as MWD+cloak trick? Why are you avoiding my argument? Quote: There is warp to 0 (which makes you harder to kill since you no longer have to fly 15km to the gate) Harder to kill? You move to the other side of the gate and that was hard to do? You're only proving the point further that cry rats ARE lazy! Quote: Working hard for your rewards? Please, being a bear allows you to at least afk. I still have to click twice. You're a funny cry rat. You think carebearing in low sec is easy? I rest my case with you. Keep those tears dropping. Keep that river flowing. And keep running away when my gang shows up to bust your gate camp. The more bears know about this the more they can run away from you. And thus we're even.
Lady Karma	Posted - 2008.05.27 17:27:00 - [86] Originally by: Matrix Skye stuff Angry carebear on caffeine spotted ITT
Matrix Skye	Posted - 2008.05.27 19:57:00 - [87] Originally by: Lady Karma Originally by: Matrix Skye stuff Angry carebear on caffeine spotted ITT All natural, no caffeine. And it sure as hell beats their pittiful tears .
Greenbolt Un4seen Development	Posted - 2008.05.27 21:57:00 - [88] Edited by: Greenbolt on 27/05/2008 21:57:54 OMGWTF they nerfed gatecamping. Excuse my while I do not sob. To be more serious...matrix is right. Good gate campers have scouts cloaked or docked in surrounding systems to make sure local count doesnt climb. Sure bait/cyno might work..but they are going to scatter before most cap ships can lock..or gate hunging campers will jump through gate. So gate camping is very low risk for the competent. Gate camp running in low sec with the right setup and timing is very low risk. I dont see the issue. You kill the noobs/unskilled and every else escapes. Unless your noobs your hard to kill and can escape. Low risk for skilled pilots on both sides. Sounds balanced to me. (Even WTZ meant nothing changed. Smart players bought BM sets and had WTZ already (or made there own)) Hopefully for all those pirates out there.low sec will improve with FW because lets be honest...the guys you used to pop where the ones who didnt know what they were doing and trying lowsec out for profit.... right now everyone knows there isnt any profit to low sec..and only travel it commonly to get out to 0.0...or take that shortcut for empire travelling..theres just no real reason to stay profit wise. --------------------------------------------------- Scordite -Who was it that said that flying minmatar is kinda like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an uzi?
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.27 23:01:00 - [89] Until they nerf HIC's scan res so a stabbed ship has a chance of making it past camps the MWD+cloak trick stays.
Serafina Palacios	Posted - 2008.05.27 23:32:00 - [90] can't you just put a few smartbom BS at the gate and warp in with a whole fleet of noob ships and leave the wrecks because you didn't need the salv and loot? (use alts for the noob ships) and so far only trick i use is a arbi that warp in under 2 sec. -----SIG----- Serafina Palacios former Major in the Republic cadre. now wanted for treason, teft of carde ships and documents and murder of cadre personnel.

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