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Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.26 10:18:00 - [301] Originally by: Midas Man Hmmm, Goons want to nerf the Lvl 3/4 missions in High Sec so they can "Farm" noobs all day without moving from the gate. 0.0 pay is worse than Lvl 4 well then Goons you obviously fail, Move off the Gate once in a while and stop suicide ganking Noobs in High Sec and explore a bit more you might find some nice cash making activities. Alternatively go run a few Lvl 3 or 4 missions in low sec you get more Isks for your risk, oh wait that is what you want right? so this thread fails, the idea fails. Either realise that more people than Goons want this to happen, or take that tinfoil drivel back to CAOD, troll.
Kalintos Tyl Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.26 10:52:00 - [302] Originally by: Karii Ildarian Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: Karii Ildarian Originally by: Kwedaras Originally by: Karii Ildarian All kidding aside, I would like to ask one serious question. Exactly how much ISK/hr should a mission runner be able to make in hi-sec? 10 mil/h if VERY lucky, normally i think 6-9 would be right I usually make about 5 or 6 tops, if I get good missions. This sounds like a raise. :) You must be the worst mission runner in EVE then, and probably end up on 2-3 mill/hr. Well, let me check my log... No Alts... check Limited play time (rl 9 to 5, etc,etc,etc...) ... check Run an average of one L4/evening (unless I get courier missions, than more, but less...)...check Average time played/evening...3.5 to 4 hours... check Yup, I average about 5 to 6 million isk/hour, so maybe I am the worst mission runner in EvE. Do you believe that one should have various alts on multiple accounts, to run missions in this game? If so, what seperates you from a macro miner? I also wanted to comment on the "sliding scale agent" idea. Must be the first time I ever heard players ask for, what is essentially, a geographical nerf... Lastly, someone else pointed out the most obvious flaw: Nerfing L4 missions would, in the end, result in a significant increase in the power of 0.0 alliances. Low sec will still suck... avarage l4 pays out 3mln for misson 3mln for bounty and random number of loot can be 1mln-20mln. You do 1 lvl 4 in 15 minutes + looting 5 minutes. Soyou earn at leasst 18mln a hour.
Karii Ildarian Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.08.26 11:04:00 - [303] Originally by: Kalintos Tyl avarage l4 pays out 3mln for misson 3mln for bounty and random number of loot can be 1mln-20mln. You do 1 lvl 4 in 15 minutes + looting 5 minutes. Soyou earn at leasst 18mln a hour. Must be nice to be you...
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.26 14:13:00 - [304] Originally by: Karii Ildarian Well, let me check my log... No Alts... check Limited play time (rl 9 to 5, etc,etc,etc...) ... check Run an average of one L4/evening (unless I get courier missions, than more, but less...)...check Average time played/evening...3.5 to 4 hours... check Yup, I average about 5 to 6 million isk/hour, so maybe I am the worst mission runner in EvE. Do you believe that one should have various alts on multiple accounts, to run missions in this game? If so, what seperates you from a macro miner? I also wanted to comment on the "sliding scale agent" idea. Must be the first time I ever heard players ask for, what is essentially, a geographical nerf... Lastly, someone else pointed out the most obvious flaw: Nerfing L4 missions would, in the end, result in a significant increase in the power of 0.0 alliances. Low sec will still suck... Complete BS and i stay on my original statement. I play in general less hrs/evening than you. I got a normal t1 raven thats mostly t2 fitted. I only have a single account. And i can easily make 20+ mill/hr. I'd make more if i bothered to max my ravenskills and/or get cnr/factionmods. The only way you can justify your numbers is if you make up some silly statistic and count your complete playtime and not just the time spent on generating isk through missions. Then i can make an equally silly statement and claim i made something like -5 mill/hr ratting in 0.0 last month. Vote against the nano nerf!
Karii Ildarian Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.08.26 14:23:00 - [305] Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: Karii Ildarian Well, let me check my log... No Alts... check Limited play time (rl 9 to 5, etc,etc,etc...) ... check Run an average of one L4/evening (unless I get courier missions, than more, but less...)...check Average time played/evening...3.5 to 4 hours... check Yup, I average about 5 to 6 million isk/hour, so maybe I am the worst mission runner in EvE. Do you believe that one should have various alts on multiple accounts, to run missions in this game? If so, what seperates you from a macro miner? I also wanted to comment on the "sliding scale agent" idea. Must be the first time I ever heard players ask for, what is essentially, a geographical nerf... Lastly, someone else pointed out the most obvious flaw: Nerfing L4 missions would, in the end, result in a significant increase in the power of 0.0 alliances. Low sec will still suck... Complete BS and i stay on my original statement. I play in general less hrs/evening than you. I got a normal t1 raven thats mostly t2 fitted. I only have a single account. And i can easily make 20+ mill/hr. I'd make more if i bothered to max my ravenskills and/or get cnr/factionmods. The only way you can justify your numbers is if you make up some silly statistic and count your complete playtime and not just the time spent on generating isk through missions. Then i can make an equally silly statement and claim i made something like -5 mill/hr ratting in 0.0 last month. Umm,you are mistaken. I use a Raven with T2 equipment. 1 in every 4 missions I get is a courier mission that, as I said, is fairly quick, but pays much less than a million isk/mission. A kill mission like Damsel takes at least 2 hours from the time I accept the mission until the time I have completed salvaging. A kill mission like WC takes me 3 to 4 hours, in total, to complete.
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.26 14:39:00 - [306] Originally by: Karii Ildarian A kill mission like Damsel takes at least 2 hours from the time I accept the mission until the time I have completed salvaging. A kill mission like WC takes me 3 to 4 hours, in total, to complete. You take a little nap in the middle then or? Vote against the nano nerf!
Karii Ildarian Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.08.26 14:59:00 - [307] Edited by: Karii Ildarian on 26/08/2008 14:59:01 Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: Karii Ildarian A kill mission like Damsel takes at least 2 hours from the time I accept the mission until the time I have completed salvaging. A kill mission like WC takes me 3 to 4 hours, in total, to complete. You take a little nap in the middle then or? Nah, takes a hell of a long time to kill the frigates.
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.26 22:47:00 - [308] Edited by: Jarvis Hellstrom on 26/08/2008 22:53:35 Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette <snip> So, with maths and common sense I have shown why 0.0 ratting generally (meaning unless you're lucky) is worse than level 4 mission running. Only if you go with the assumption that you can make more than 15 million an hour running L4s, which seems to be a key assumption in your argument. Perhaps YOU can do that, I don't know. I know I can't. Not even close. Point not made. Originally by: Ki An the Pirate writing as Max If you took it as uncontrovertible fact without exception you're pretty stupid. Just saying. Everything has exceptions. Oh yes, clearly I'm a total moron because I disagree with you and refuse to accept your assertions at face value. Let me clarify something for you - this is the second sentence from your post above: Originally by: Max The mission protectors have yet to accept the fact that you make more isk on average in high sec running missions than in 0.0 ratting. It's so obvious a fact that I'm amazed they can't accept it. I don't see any qualifiers there. YOU wrote it as an absolute. You should not be surprised if someone responds to it the way you yourself phrased it. Now that someone's refuting it you try and dodge it as 'well there are exceptions of course' and then try and downplay them as uncommon etc (all without any kind of evidence or qualifier). Quote: No, it's not an argument as in these debates most of the people arguing against the nerf pipe up and say "but all I wanna do is run missions". Again, the general mass seems to enjoy mission running. You're the exception. Not the only exception by any means. Regardless it's a largely irrelevant point. I don't like playing squash either but that doesn't make my opinion any less valid if I speak out in support of those who do enjoy it. Indeed it probably makes it more significant as it's not personal bias. Quote: The holes in my position is made up of exceptions, several of which you happen to be part of. I'm not saying you're lying. I'm just saying you're extremely lucky. Oh, I assure you I'm not lying. Lucky? If so it's an extremely unusual sort of luck. I have only my own experience to go on and that of folks that I trust and believe (which does not include you in this case). I see no overwhelming evidence of this unbelievable luck. Quote: I did not present my statement as an absolute. You took it as such in order to be able to pick it apart. Really? You don't consider what you wrote above an absolute statement? Let's check it shall we? Originally by: Max The mission protectors have yet to accept the fact that you make more isk on average in high sec running missions than in 0.0 ratting. It's so obvious a fact that I'm amazed they can't accept it. First statement includes the term 'Accept the fact'. Not 'the evidence' or some other term. "Fact". Your term not mine. You then go on to state that 'It's so obvious a fact that I'm amazed they can't accept it.' You then go on to disparage anyone who disagrees with you as doing so purely for profit motives (a statement which clearly doesn't include largely non mission running me). You would be hard pressed to form a paragraph more absolute than the above Max. You have no qualifiers, no outs of any kind. It's a 'fact' which is 'obvious' and leaves you 'amazed' that others will not 'accept' it. Yep. Nothing absolute about that at all. Not even a little bit. (Kindly note the sarcasm literally dripping from the previous three sentences. Originally by: Max I have provided said proof. Sorry, no. You have made assertions backed up by a bunch of numbers pulled out of the air and compared to no numbers at all. You'll have to do far better than that. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.26 22:51:00 - [309] Originally by: Esmenet You take a little nap in the middle then or? Nope. Not everyone has the same level of skill or the expenditure in the really optimized rigged mission ships. Worlds Collide takes me closer to 5 hours to complete and usually I pretty much need to have a second player for the hard bit. (That's including loot and salvage). The first L4 I soloed was a Blockade and it took 6 hours and about 2 minutes. I know because I just barely missed getting the time bonus for it. And that doesn't include the final looting and salvaging. Not everyone can run missions as fast as some can. They just aren't as good. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.27 12:40:00 - [310] Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom Absolute fact absolute fact absolute fact absolute fact Originally by: Max The mission protectors have yet to accept the fact that you make more isk on average in high sec running missions than in 0.0 ratting. It's so obvious a fact that I'm amazed they can't accept it. Absolute fact absolute fact absolute fact absolute fact Maybe you should try and read what you quote before you go off on a rant. I've highlighted the important part for you.

Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.27 14:31:00 - [311] Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom Originally by: Esmenet You take a little nap in the middle then or? Nope. Not everyone has the same level of skill or the expenditure in the really optimized rigged mission ships. Worlds Collide takes me closer to 5 hours to complete and usually I pretty much need to have a second player for the hard bit. (That's including loot and salvage). The first L4 I soloed was a Blockade and it took 6 hours and about 2 minutes. I know because I just barely missed getting the time bonus for it. And that doesn't include the final looting and salvaging. Not everyone can run missions as fast as some can. They just aren't as good. I find it hard to believe that its even possible to be that slow. I remember doing WC in my very first t1 fitted raven with really shit skillpoints where i had to warp out a couple of times and i never got close to those times you state here. Missionrunning does not take any skill its mostly just optimising your dps after you have got your tank to a reasonable level. At most you need to be aware of triggerships. Vote against the nano nerf!
Ricdics Corporate Placement Holding	Posted - 2008.08.27 15:42:00 - [312] No
procurement specialist	Posted - 2008.08.27 16:23:00 - [313] Originally by: Karii Ildarian Edited by: Karii Ildarian on 26/08/2008 14:59:01 Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: Karii Ildarian A kill mission like Damsel takes at least 2 hours from the time I accept the mission until the time I have completed salvaging. A kill mission like WC takes me 3 to 4 hours, in total, to complete. You take a little nap in the middle then or? Nah, takes a hell of a long time to kill the frigates. drones. i am a terrible caldari i have like 3m drone sp and 600k in missiles. just launch drones and send them on the little ships while you torp or cruise the big ones. normally the drones finish the little guys before i finish the bs. also this is getting a little bit apples and oranges. if your took these same mission runners to 0.0 to rat they wouldn't be at the top end of the pay scale either so saying a sub-optimal mission runner makes less than a hard core 0.0 ratter is a bit dumb. my biggest problem is that normally 0.0 ratters have competition that prevents even close to peak numbers and missioners just turn down a courier mission and next is full of targets again. use a kill agent. courier and mining missions are not good on isk.
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.27 19:22:00 - [314] Originally by: Esmenet I find it hard to believe that its even possible to be that slow. I remember doing WC in my very first t1 fitted raven with really shit skillpoints where i had to warp out a couple of times and i never got close to those times you state here. Missionrunning does not take any skill its mostly just optimising your dps after you have got your tank to a reasonable level. At most you need to be aware of triggerships. The Raven is considered (by most I've spoken to anyway) to be the primo mission running ship in the game - so it's not surprising that your experience was better. I was running it in a mostly T1 fitted Dominix. Much lower DPS, virtually impossible to hit frigs with the guns unless they are very far away etc. Granted, there are probably better fits for the ship - but that's what I had and it did work. Due to the length of time I actually took my salvage ship into the mission space several times to clean up sections of rats I killed before coming back into the combat. I got QUITE a lot of flak in real life as I had guests show up and I didn't want to leave the game, have it respawn overnight and have to do it all over again the next day - meaning I was late for the stuff I'd planned with my guests. I never figured it'd take that long either. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.27 19:36:00 - [315] Originally by: Max The mission protectors have yet to accept the fact that you make more isk on average in high sec running missions than in 0.0 ratting. It's so obvious a fact that I'm amazed they can't accept it. Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette Maybe you should try and read what you quote before you go off on a rant. I've highlighted the important part for you. Maybe you should try and write something in a less insulting and inflammatory way because your 'caveat' was so buried in the rest of your diatribe that I entire missed it even when reading it carefully. Which makes it a pretty lame caveat. And it's not a proven fact that even on average it's true. You claim it but neither of us has the facts to actually calculate 'on average'. Try to divert things all you like, your 'facts' are still nothing but opinions and probably coloured by what you'd like to believe to be true. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Nick Bison Gallente Serenity Engineering and Transport Company Intrepid Proprietary Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.27 20:47:00 - [316] I believe that the last estimate was that 80% of players live in HiSec. It also appears to be true that they do not want to live in LowSec or 0.0 so trying to "force" them there by changing the game mechanics (ie: Level IV mission locations) will probably loose CCP paying customers. For the folk who like to repeat that Eve is a PvP game ... well, it was but, it is very clear that 80% of paying customers prefer HiSec so, let's add more content and regions to HiSec ... they are the bill-payers. More revienu means more development all regions.
procurement specialist	Posted - 2008.08.27 21:44:00 - [317] completely clearing wc and blockade are the 2 longest missions i know of. their is also an l4 version of duo of death with 2 nice bs and a few towers.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.08.27 22:11:00 - [318] Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom Maybe you should try and write something in a less insulting and inflammatory way because your 'caveat' was so buried in the rest of your diatribe that I entire missed it even when reading it carefully. Which makes it a pretty lame caveat. And it's not a proven fact that even on average it's true. You claim it but neither of us has the facts to actually calculate 'on average'. Try to divert things all you like, your 'facts' are still nothing but opinions and probably coloured by what you'd like to believe to be true. So the guy with the post full of inflammatory comments, and who also fails to read what he is responding to properly now comes and accuses me of being inflammatory? Get a grip. Your desperate defense of high sec missions is based on attacking the posters of the opposing opinion, rather than their arguments. Kindly stfu. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.28 06:43:00 - [319] Originally by: Karii Ildarian Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: Karii Ildarian Well, let me check my log... No Alts... check Limited play time (rl 9 to 5, etc,etc,etc...) ... check Run an average of one L4/evening (unless I get courier missions, than more, but less...)...check Average time played/evening...3.5 to 4 hours... check Yup, I average about 5 to 6 million isk/hour, so maybe I am the worst mission runner in EvE. Do you believe that one should have various alts on multiple accounts, to run missions in this game? If so, what seperates you from a macro miner? I also wanted to comment on the "sliding scale agent" idea. Must be the first time I ever heard players ask for, what is essentially, a geographical nerf... Lastly, someone else pointed out the most obvious flaw: Nerfing L4 missions would, in the end, result in a significant increase in the power of 0.0 alliances. Low sec will still suck... Complete BS and i stay on my original statement. I play in general less hrs/evening than you. I got a normal t1 raven thats mostly t2 fitted. I only have a single account. And i can easily make 20+ mill/hr. I'd make more if i bothered to max my ravenskills and/or get cnr/factionmods. The only way you can justify your numbers is if you make up some silly statistic and count your complete playtime and not just the time spent on generating isk through missions. Then i can make an equally silly statement and claim i made something like -5 mill/hr ratting in 0.0 last month. Umm,you are mistaken. I use a Raven with T2 equipment. 1 in every 4 missions I get is a courier mission that, as I said, is fairly quick, but pays much less than a million isk/mission. A kill mission like Damsel takes at least 2 hours from the time I accept the mission until the time I have completed salvaging. A kill mission like WC takes me 3 to 4 hours, in total, to complete. 2 HOURS for Damsel? That should take you about 25-30 mins! Maybe 45 if you're not very good. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.28 06:47:00 - [320] Originally by: Nick Bison I believe that the last estimate was that 80% of players live in HiSec. It also appears to be true that they do not want to live in LowSec or 0.0 so trying to "force" them there by changing the game mechanics (ie: Level IV mission locations) will probably loose CCP paying customers. For the folk who like to repeat that Eve is a PvP game ... well, it was but, it is very clear that 80% of paying customers prefer HiSec so, let's add more content and regions to HiSec ... they are the bill-payers. More revienu means more development all regions. God, this tired old argument. 80% of characters in hi-sec does NOT, repeat NOT mean that 80% of players want to be hi-sec exclusively. One possible interpretation is that many 0.0 players come to hi-sec to make ISK, for instance. Like I do. Which is, you know, kind of the point of this thread. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

Karii Ildarian Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.08.28 07:45:00 - [321] Originally by: Malcanis 2 HOURS for Damsel? That should take you about 25-30 mins! Maybe 45 if you're not very good. Nah, about 2 hrs. I already suggested that CCP should just double the hp's, damage and resistances of all npc's in the game. Making high-speed isk farming from missions much harder, if not virtually impossible. Not much, (as in none), support for it. Thus, the OP's request is simply meta-griefing. I do not, in principle, oppose meta-griefing, but at least be honest about it...
AeonOfTime Minmatar Syrkos Technologies	Posted - 2008.08.28 07:57:00 - [322] I for one am absolutely content living in highsec. I usually try to have fun when I play, and lowsec/nullsec just is not fun for me. Moving level 4 missions won't make me go there more, it will simply make me stop running them. You can't just move the entire game into nullsec... of course you guys want more action, but what about EVE's versatility? Leave some room to the casual players to have some fun in highsec without getting blown to pieces every bloody minute. Just my feelings. -- Read the captain's log at eve.aeonoftime.com The solo player's corporation - Syrkos Technologies
AeonOfTime Minmatar Syrkos Technologies	Posted - 2008.08.28 08:16:00 - [323] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Nick Bison I believe that the last estimate was that 80% of players live in HiSec. It also appears to be true that they do not want to live in LowSec or 0.0 so trying to "force" them there by changing the game mechanics (ie: Level IV mission locations) will probably loose CCP paying customers. For the folk who like to repeat that Eve is a PvP game ... well, it was but, it is very clear that 80% of paying customers prefer HiSec so, let's add more content and regions to HiSec ... they are the bill-payers. More revienu means more development all regions. God, this tired old argument. 80% of characters in hi-sec does NOT, repeat NOT mean that 80% of players want to be hi-sec exclusively. One possible interpretation is that many 0.0 players come to hi-sec to make ISK, for instance. Like I do. Which is, you know, kind of the point of this thread. That's odd. There is a persistent rumor going around, saying that nullsec is way more profitable than highsec, and that if you want to really earn some serious ISK you have to go there. You mean all that is just a big lie? If you come to highsec to make ISK, what do you do in nullsec? Oh, wait... I get it. You come to highsec to make ISK, and nullsec is for having fun blowing everything to shreds, including yourself occasionally - so you have to go back to highsec to make ISK. In essence, moving level 4 missions to nullsec would spare you the bother of a trip to highsec, and hopefully bring forth more untrained cannon fodder for you. Sorry for the sarcasm, I am just wondering... what exactly do you propose to achieve by moving level 4 missions to nullsec? I mean really. Would it not just be a convenience for players already well set up in nullsec? By the way, you guys have chosen to live in nullsec just as I have chosen to live in highsec. Get to grips with what that choice pertains to, you can't have highsec's advantages moved to nullsec for you. -- Read the captain's log at eve.aeonoftime.com The solo player's corporation - Syrkos Technologies
Nil Pecunia Medway Mining Inc Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.28 08:49:00 - [324] As a 0.0 resident and a casual high sec. player, I have to give this a thumbs down. Originally by: Fallorn I propose that ccp put all lvl 4 missions in 0.0 all lvl 3 missions in low sec and all lvl two missions in .7 sec or lower. The higher the sec status the lower levels of missions because that is were the easy jobs are and the harder jobs are closer to the border of an empires space or going out of their space to do missions for them. This would help fix the balance for risk/reward. Pirates would have a field day. More targets and an easy way to raise sec. standing (just run missions in lowsec). I think there would be a large increase in pirate activity, greatly increasing the risk. Originally by: Fallorn Also change the size of empire roids so that they pop from one or two cycles of a strip miner, and limit how much ice spawns on roids in empire saying that the country in charge mines so much of it off. Size of roids increases as you move to lower sec status areas. I don't think we need to change the way ore is distributed right now. Having more valuable ore in lower security systems seems fine. Originally by: Fallorn The rp reason for agents moving is that with the war and other things going on they have greater need near the borders of their space. This means that the newest agents they keep close to home and their more trusted agents they move and spread farther out. The roids decreasing in size would be caused by the empires expanded industrial needs during the wartime. I haven't done much rp in EvE, so cannot really comment on the rp reasons. . "He who understands how to fight in accordance with the strength of antagonistic forces will be victorious." The Art of War ~ Sun Tzu
imouttahere	Posted - 2008.08.28 11:35:00 - [325] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Nick Bison I believe that the last estimate was that 80% of players live in HiSec. It also appears to be true that they do not want to live in LowSec or 0.0 so trying to "force" them there by changing the game mechanics (ie: Level IV mission locations) will probably loose CCP paying customers. For the folk who like to repeat that Eve is a PvP game ... well, it was but, it is very clear that 80% of paying customers prefer HiSec so, let's add more content and regions to HiSec ... they are the bill-payers. More revienu means more development all regions. God, this tired old argument. 80% of characters in hi-sec does NOT, repeat NOT mean that 80% of players want to be hi-sec exclusively. One possible interpretation is that many 0.0 players come to hi-sec to make ISK, for instance. Like I do. Which is, you know, kind of the point of this thread. So you commute to losec because that's the best place to earn isk safely. Why don't you just get another account to run missions in hisec and keep your main in 0.0 like everybody else? Maybe life in 0.0 isn't for you if you can't be bothered to deal with the risks and prefer the carebear life in hisec.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.08.28 11:50:00 - [326] Originally by: imouttahere Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Nick Bison I believe that the last estimate was that 80% of players live in HiSec. It also appears to be true that they do not want to live in LowSec or 0.0 so trying to "force" them there by changing the game mechanics (ie: Level IV mission locations) will probably loose CCP paying customers. For the folk who like to repeat that Eve is a PvP game ... well, it was but, it is very clear that 80% of paying customers prefer HiSec so, let's add more content and regions to HiSec ... they are the bill-payers. More revienu means more development all regions. God, this tired old argument. 80% of characters in hi-sec does NOT, repeat NOT mean that 80% of players want to be hi-sec exclusively. One possible interpretation is that many 0.0 players come to hi-sec to make ISK, for instance. Like I do. Which is, you know, kind of the point of this thread. So you commute to losec because that's the best place to earn isk safely. Why don't you just get another account to run missions in hisec and keep your main in 0.0 like everybody else? Maybe life in 0.0 isn't for you if you can't be bothered to deal with the risks and prefer the carebear life in hisec. Are you dumb? Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.28 20:05:00 - [327] Originally by: Ki An So the guy with the post full of inflammatory comments, and who also fails to read what he is responding to properly now comes and accuses me of being inflammatory? Get a grip. Your desperate defense of high sec missions is based on attacking the posters of the opposing opinion, rather than their arguments. Kindly stfu. Aww now the Alt goes away and the real pirate comes out to play. I don't run missions. I have no vested interest. You're a pirate. Your vested interest is more targets in places you can go. Which one of us is unbiased? Oh, I don't shut up because of abuse by loud mouths trying to shout people down with 'obvious' facts which are, in fact, entirely unsubstantiated opinions that also happen to support a hidden agenda. You do. Perhaps your claims are true numbers, but you cannot prove it and my experience says otherwise so you certainly cannot prove it to me without actual statistics that you probably don't have access to. Missions DO need some fixing and attention. But moving them out to serve the interests of pirates whining for easy ganks isn't the way to go about it. If you cannot debate civilly, then please don't bother to attempt it at all. You're only embarrassing yourself. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2008.08.28 20:38:00 - [328] Discussed to death, CCP need to give us a definitive answer so we can all get back to our e-lives.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.08.28 20:56:00 - [329] Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom Aww now the Alt goes away and the real pirate comes out to play. I don't run missions. I have no vested interest. You're a pirate. Your vested interest is more targets in places you can go. Which one of us is unbiased? Oh, I don't shut up because of abuse by loud mouths trying to shout people down with 'obvious' facts which are, in fact, entirely unsubstantiated opinions that also happen to support a hidden agenda. You do. Perhaps your claims are true numbers, but you cannot prove it and my experience says otherwise so you certainly cannot prove it to me without actual statistics that you probably don't have access to. Missions DO need some fixing and attention. But moving them out to serve the interests of pirates whining for easy ganks isn't the way to go about it. If you cannot debate civilly, then please don't bother to attempt it at all. You're only embarrassing yourself. Look, you bozo, I was discussing this civilly until you started getting your panties in a twist and throwing around accusations and assumptions. I've been discussing this from a stand point of common sense, something which you are obviously lacking in. You are obviously heavily biased in this discussion, as you have not been arguing properly at any point in the discussion. Instead you have been picking on small stuff, trying to poke holes in arguments by discussing strawmen and irrelevant stuff. I'm not a flippin' low sec pirate. Look at my security status. I'm a high sec dweller who happens to like shooting stuff. I don't gate camp. I don't do belt piracy (anymore). I dec idiots with too much cash and relieve them of it. Moving missions to low sec would not affect me in any positive way in the short run. It would deprive me of my safe primary income. However, I recognize that drastic measures need to take place, and I would not be opposed to moving missions to lowsec. However, I believe - as I've stated multiple times - that a much better option would be to just nerf high sec mission rewards drastically. This would balance them enough so that you bears can keep your safe fun, and at the same time balance out the economy. Before you go blathering about me wanting this or that, try to read some of my friggin' posts and see where I stand on the issue. Stop attacking people and start attacking their arguments. Just frappin' stop! (Can't say [shorter word for intercourse] cause it got me banned last time) Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.28 21:30:00 - [330] Originally by: Ki An Look, you bozo, I was discussing this civilly <snip> Epithets get you no points and no respect. Obviously your definition of 'civilly' and mine are entirely different. I'm sorry you're all upset because I called you on your 'facts' and asked you to back up your claims (which you clearly cannot do or you would have by now). Getting all mad, insulting and foul mouthed about it isn't earning you any points or convincing anyone of your position. I've given you numerous opportunities to do that and you've not taken even a single one. Perhaps you really don't have an agenda (that claim was made by others who apparently know you better than I and in this same thread - I simply accepted it because their arguments, unlike yours, made sense). Given your behaviour, which has become quite rude and defensive, I'm afraid I'm far more likely to believe them then you. Presenting facts or at least detailed personal experiences which can be discussed in a mature way is the way to make a point. Not claiming that your position is 'obvious' when, at least to some, it very clearly is not. I am done wasting my time with you. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)



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