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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
MinerChick
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.14 04:15:00 -
[121]
I was in 0.0 in the first week of playing, I borrowed some money bought an osprey and mined in S-U of syndicate. Other people could join and go into 0.0 syndicate actually had agents so I could do missions their, and with a support group of my corp I thrived. People can do that if they want to sure it was hard at times but knowing I was in level three missions before the trial was out and having tackled people who tried to kill myself and others it was a hole lot better than the previous time I had tried the game and had nothing. 0.0 is a great place for newbies and allows you to learn how to fit ships well, learn to watch local, and how to pvp in frigates that cost you nothing to lose.
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Hiruko Kitomi
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Posted - 2008.08.14 04:26:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Hiruko Kitomi on 14/08/2008 04:33:48
No support.
First the op talks about wanting to "balance" income and then talks about changes as ill-concieved and poorly planned out as the CCP speed nerf.
Yeah. Whatever.
Back to my policy of ignoring goonathreads.
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TimMc
Gallente
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2008.08.14 04:47:00 -
[123]
Level 4s only being in 0.0 is too extreme. Level 5s only in 0.0 yes, but 4s should stay in low sec and all other levels in high sec.
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Lady Starfire
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Posted - 2008.08.14 04:58:00 -
[124]
 Originally by: TimMc
Level 4s only being in 0.0 is too extreme. Level 5s only in 0.0 yes, but 4s should stay in low sec and all other levels in high sec.
High sec can have the level fives really. I mean if you have to kill an npc cap ship in high sec go for it. It would even bring you guys together but the lvl 4 missions make more isk reliably than just about anything the average person can make in 0.0 or low sec for the risk/reward.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.14 09:38:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Fallorn
People say this and that about how its for people to build up isk to go to low sec or 0.0 but the fact is in most 0.0 you would be making more money with a high sec agent. I really don't care about killing the mission runners, I just want the effort that it takes to be in low sec or 0.0 to be worth more than running high sec missions in a raven thats total lose would take 1-2 missions to pay off. I would be just as fine if they dropped the rewards of high sec mission running down 50% then it would not bother me as much. But having been living in 0.0 for 2.5 years I think I have a right to ***** that it is worth this much. I have watched a friend on his high sec mission character and seen how much effort it takes. That is why I think this is important.
Average (and I mean average, not top) reward for missions is 20 million hour. A raven cost 80 millions, so that is 4 hours of play.
Average reward ratting in 0.0 is in the 30-40 million range (including the not so rare faction spawns, every one of them rise the average a lot).
If you want you can rat in 0.0 as long as you can run missions in high sec with very little additional risk, so there is a decent balance. naturally if you go for the "With 2 accounts and uber faction set up I can do 60 million/hour" posts you should balance that with the "in my -1.00 true security system I get 120 millions hour plus faction spawns and officers" posts.
Originally by: Gamesguy
the suicide ganking is merely an isk farming activity.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.14 09:40:00 -
[126]
Originally by: HCIChicken
Currently the only way to make more money in 0.0 is through drone region ratting, or moon mining. Level four missions shouldn't be this rewarding and should be adjusted.
Level 4 mission in 0.0? Forgetting them?
Ratting in almost all regions?
Originally by: Gamesguy
the suicide ganking is merely an isk farming activity.
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Kayla Starfire
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Posted - 2008.08.14 11:10:00 -
[127]
All I see is a naked attempt by the OP to try and FORCE (veteran) players to live the same way he does in game.
Well I say to hell with that!
You like living out in no/low sec? AWESOME! Stay out there, be happy, and stop trying to ruin the game for vets who like living in Empire some/most of the time.
What the hell do you have to complain about anyway? You think level 3's and 4's are such awesome money makers? GREAT! Go run them yourself! It's not like their aren't higher quality agents out in low/no sec that pay out a LOT more (in direct isk, loot, and better missions) than their counterparts in high sec RIGHT NOW, already in game. So how is that NOT balanced?? 
With that BALANCE already in place in game, where is this mythical problem you are trying to dream up?
I don't buy this in the least. The balance is fine the way it is.
**** NO SUPPORT. ****
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Ambien Torca
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Posted - 2008.08.14 11:17:00 -
[128]
"Could High sec risk/reward/time balance be looked at and possibly adjusted? Absolutely.
Although..with so much mission money pouring into the game at nigh catastrophic levels, you'd think that prices would be inflating faster then the blow up altar boy doll in the priests bedroom..yet somehow, this disastrous inflation that would logically be the result of mega millions/billions/trillions being 'farmed' 23/7/365 doesn't seem to be happening..so maybe it's not as big of a problem as the people whining seem to think."
I think the reason why price of many things is actually going down over time despite of more and more isk entering circulation is simply because there¦s EVEN MORE minerals/modules and such entering as well (asset inflation beating isk inflation). Most items are well supplied to the market and to make inventory move sellers have to compete ferociously with prices. It¦s easy to see from battleship prices for example.
T2 doesn¦t have quite same pattern due to building material production being far more limited which puts effective floor on prices.
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Doonoo Boonoo
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Posted - 2008.08.14 11:40:00 -
[129]
OP talks about Risk v reward??
Dude, your Alliance mates tampered with the client and, because it was undetectable, forced CCP to give everyone the same 'feature'. Result: A safer Eve.
Your Alliance mates ganked shit loads of Hulks and Coveters and got the Insurance system Nerfed. Result: A safer Eve.
Of course I can see how an Alliance with huge swathes of space to rent out would be interested in attracting more people to 0.0.
Especially as your Alliance charges people a further $20 to play the game with them.
is a good troll though.
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Holy Lowlander
Aurora Acclivitous
Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.08.14 11:45:00 -
[130]
Hey keep your level IV mission runners and their lagg away from 0.0 space !!!
Quote:
woot I wants a toy arbitrator !!! :O
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fishblades
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.14 12:15:00 -
[131]
Edited by: fishblades on 14/08/2008 12:16:42
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Average reward ratting in 0.0 is in the 30-40 million range (including the not so rare faction spawns, every one of them rise the average a lot)
You can rat for days and weeks and not see a single faction spawn, bringing them into the equation is stupid.
Your payout for ratting is being generous as well. If the belts have been pruned and there are some good chains set up then we can make 20mil an hour, of course that's if you aren't sharing the system with 5 other people which you usually do. The 30-40 mil range is what you get if you hit a faction spawn. In order to make 30-40mil an hour in 0.0 you have to kill 22 of the highest value rats at 1.8mil. How often do you think that happens? You're lucky to see one triple 1.8mil BS spawn in a system of 22 belts. Get Out. 
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Maulos
the united
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Posted - 2008.08.14 12:27:00 -
[132]
/signed
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Alexi Kalashnikov
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.14 12:53:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Alexi Kalashnikov on 14/08/2008 12:53:24
Originally by: Hiruko Kitomi
Edited by: Hiruko Kitomi on 14/08/2008 04:33:48
No support.
First the op talks about wanting to "balance" income and then talks about changes as ill-concieved and poorly planned out as the CCP speed nerf.
Yeah. Whatever.
Back to my policy of ignoring goonathreads.
Look, someone who makes his isk off level 4's in the safety of 1.0 space.
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Ferbin Holse
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Posted - 2008.08.14 13:20:00 -
[134]
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Kristan Knife
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Posted - 2008.08.14 13:34:00 -
[135]
Figures a goonie would bring this up one more...Mission runners support Eve-Online. With out them, you would be forced to go back to WoW to gank newbies.
Why Cant you let people play the way they want to? Why force them to play with you?
Empire players are playing THEIR game not yours. Want to see Eve-Online die....this is the way..
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Kristan Knife
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Posted - 2008.08.14 13:47:00 -
[136]
What is this risk/reward you speak of? Lag camps dont have risk...suicide ganks dont have risk...ganking newbs dont have risk....
I got a better Idea, istead of driving the players away, lets convert Eve-Online to WoW is space! So after level 70 all you have to do is kill each other off with no harmful effects....stupid goon...just stupid
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Aarin Wrath
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.08.14 13:51:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Hiruko Kitomi
Edited by: Hiruko Kitomi on 14/08/2008 04:33:48
No support.
First the op talks about wanting to "balance" income and then talks about changes as ill-concieved and poorly planned out
Yeah no support here either.
Poorly thought out, Short sighted, and well just not a good idea.
Please see the 1,000,000 other threads about this very same topic.
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MinerChick
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.14 14:59:00 -
[138]
Then since you guys dislike this idea so much how about just allowing agents in outposts.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.14 15:20:00 -
[139]
Originally by: fishblades
Edited by: fishblades on 14/08/2008 12:16:42
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Average reward ratting in 0.0 is in the 30-40 million range (including the not so rare faction spawns, every one of them rise the average a lot)
You can rat for days and weeks and not see a single faction spawn, bringing them into the equation is stupid.
Your payout for ratting is being generous as well. If the belts have been pruned and there are some good chains set up then we can make 20mil an hour, of course that's if you aren't sharing the system with 5 other people which you usually do. The 30-40 mil range is what you get if you hit a faction spawn. In order to make 30-40mil an hour in 0.0 you have to kill 22 of the highest value rats at 1.8mil. How often do you think that happens? You're lucky to see one triple 1.8mil BS spawn in a system of 22 belts. Get Out.
Strange, I get them pretty often. And not bringing them in the equation is stupid.
My current average with faction spawn is 60 millions, in -0.42 sec space.
Without the faction spawn is 25.
Notice the difference of including them? Still convinced that not including them is the right way to calculate the returns of ratting?
Originally by: Gamesguy
the suicide ganking is merely an isk farming activity.
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RDevz
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.14 17:39:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Strange, I get them pretty often. And not bringing them in the equation is stupid.
My current average with faction spawn is 60 millions, in -0.42 sec space.
Without the faction spawn is 25.
Notice the difference of including them? Still convinced that not including them is the right way to calculate the returns of ratting?
Calling shenanigans. Even assuming every one dropped a 175m item, that's an average of one faction spawn every 5 hours. Unless there are some serious imbalances between a -0.7 in angel rat space, where I've had 2 in about 80 hours of ratting, I'm forced to conclude that your post is an outright fabrication. |
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Scagga Laebetrovo
Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2008.08.14 17:48:00 -
[141]
Originally by: RDevz
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Strange, I get them pretty often. And not bringing them in the equation is stupid.
My current average with faction spawn is 60 millions, in -0.42 sec space.
Without the faction spawn is 25.
Notice the difference of including them? Still convinced that not including them is the right way to calculate the returns of ratting?
Calling shenanigans. Even assuming every one dropped a 175m item, that's an average of one faction spawn every 5 hours. Unless there are some serious imbalances between a -0.7 in angel rat space, where I've had 2 in about 80 hours of ratting, I'm forced to conclude that your post is an outright fabrication.
He might just be lucky, neither your or his subjective experience carry special validity  |
Roshan longshot
Gallente
Ordos Humanitas
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Posted - 2008.08.14 18:08:00 -
[142]
I've been playing eve for many years, I just now started running missions again...why? I needed cash, I did'nt need to fight sombody in a ratting ship against a pvp ship.
So I moved back into empire and ran three level four missions...32 million isk. Took me from 9am to 3pm, (I do them solo)
Where the harm in that...6 hours of my life used to earn 32 million isk.
Reward...I made 3 times the amount I would have in a system by my self with 12 belts in it. (10 million 8 hours play)
Risk...well, comming out of warp into a trap...(funny CCP real frecking funny) Some salvage pirate comming into my field...or some lame can tipper...
Did I mention having to run to a station to recharge my cap (several times last night)?
No there isnt anything wrong with what I did yesterday, the risk I was taking equals the reward I recieved.
Damn you CCP! Why did you have to make such a good game?? Yes you drew me back AGAIN! Oh well wheres the Omber? |
Fallorn
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.14 18:44:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Roshan longshot
I've been playing eve for many years, I just now started running missions again...why? I needed cash, I did'nt need to fight sombody in a ratting ship against a pvp ship.
So I moved back into empire and ran three level four missions...32 million isk. Took me from 9am to 3pm, (I do them solo)
Where the harm in that...6 hours of my life used to earn 32 million isk.
Reward...I made 3 times the amount I would have in a system by my self with 12 belts in it. (10 million 8 hours play)
Risk...well, comming out of warp into a trap...(funny CCP real frecking funny) Some salvage pirate comming into my field...or some lame can tipper...
Did I mention having to run to a station to recharge my cap (several times last night)?
No there isnt anything wrong with what I did yesterday, the risk I was taking equals the reward I recieved.
No you just do not know how to run missions. Or know what missions to turn down and go on to the next one.
Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.08.14 18:48:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Kristan Knife
Figures a goonie would bring this up one more...Mission runners support Eve-Online. With out them, you would be forced to go back to WoW to gank newbies.
Why Cant you let people play the way they want to? Why force them to play with you?
Empire players are playing THEIR game not yours. Want to see Eve-Online die....this is the way..
Le sigh.
1) Hisec ISK printing aka level 4 misisons have not always existed in this form, so no, they aren't necessary.
2) They can't play the way they want to because in EVE, what one person does affects others. In this case, the availability of level 4 missions makes PVP in lowsec/0.0 useless because you can't inflict any financial losses on your opponent. Any losses can be made up by missioning in hisec, and there's nothing to fight over because you can get the same thing missioning in hisec.
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Karentaki
Gallente
Fighting While Intoxicated
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Posted - 2008.08.14 19:07:00 -
[145]
Edited by: Karentaki on 14/08/2008 19:13:55
Originally by: Ambien Torca
"Could High sec risk/reward/time balance be looked at and possibly adjusted? Absolutely.
Although..with so much mission money pouring into the game at nigh catastrophic levels, you'd think that prices would be inflating faster then the blow up altar boy doll in the priests bedroom..yet somehow, this disastrous inflation that would logically be the result of mega millions/billions/trillions being 'farmed' 23/7/365 doesn't seem to be happening..so maybe it's not as big of a problem as the people whining seem to think."
I think the reason why price of many things is actually going down over time despite of more and more isk entering circulation is simply because there¦s EVEN MORE minerals/modules and such entering as well (asset inflation beating isk inflation). Most items are well supplied to the market and to make inventory move sellers have to compete ferociously with prices. It¦s easy to see from battleship prices for example.
T2 doesn¦t have quite same pattern due to building material production being far more limited which puts effective floor on prices.
WTS, Economics 101 skillbook - only 1 billion ISK 
L4 missions produce both lots of ISK, and lots of modules/minerals. These generally tend to counteract eachother when it comes to inflation, but that does NOT mean that L4 highsec missions are not getting farmed, or that they are good for the economy. The nano nerf wouldn't be needed if T2 ships and modules were more expensive, but thanks to the general availability of quick, easy ISK in highsec, everyone and their mother can afford a pimped out vagabond.
=============
RE: The suicide nerf
Originally by: agent apple
I believe I can safely speak for many of us when I say,
Dear Devs, Go Back to WOW
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Alexander Knott
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.14 19:40:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
2) They can't play the way they want to because in EVE, what one person does affects others. In this case, the availability of level 4 missions makes PVP in lowsec/0.0 useless because you can't inflict any financial losses on your opponent. Any losses can be made up by missioning in hisec, and there's nothing to fight over because you can get the same thing missioning in hisec.
This is the biggest problem I have with the current mission setup. It's tough to fight meaningful battles over territory when both sides are just replacing losses with out of corp mission alts -- and they don't care about the territory anyway because, hey, missions are better.
-----
"I like to loot, especially going to the can of the battleship, sometimes there is a surprise inside, sometimes there is only carp..." |
miss elena
Minmatar
The Geriatrics
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Posted - 2008.08.14 22:03:00 -
[147]
Hey, im a carebear, would i be more tolerable to a PVP:er only because i moved out to lowsec?
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.08.14 22:24:00 -
[148]
It has nothing to do with you being in lowsec or hisec, it has everything to do with rewards in hisec vs rewards in lowsec.
And people need to stop making this into a war of PVErs vs PVPers. It's not about that, it's about risk vs reward and making conflict in lowsec/0.0 meaningful.
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DaDutchDude
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.08.14 22:36:00 -
[149]
Edited by: DaDutchDude on 14/08/2008 22:38:58
Originally by: Fallorn
[...] but the fact is in most 0.0 you would be making more money with a high sec agent. I really don't care about killing the mission runners, I just want the effort that it takes to be in low sec or 0.0 to be worth more than running high sec missions in a raven thats total lose would take 1-2 missions to pay off.
[...]
I can totally agree with this. I (being one of these L4 mission running carebears) think:
1) Level 4 missions are too easy after a while, mostly because they are too predictable. This makes them too farmable.
2) Level 4 missions pay out too much, esp. in drops. The item drops also disrupt the market and make it 'the new mining' by refining modules. Some of this could also be said for level 3 missions.
3) Life in low sec and 0.0 is probably not rewarding enough compared to mission farming.
4) PVE fittings and combat are too different from PVP fittings and combat to give mission runners enough of a fighting chance in low sec.
I fully agree these issues should be fixed, but not in the way that is proposed. Fix them so that:
* mission running is still a viable career.
* missions are less farmable but more enjoyable and educational by making it more dynamic and allow more PVP-like fittings and strategies.
* carebearism isn't punished
* income oppertunities across the various regions of space increase according to risk
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.14 22:50:00 -
[150]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 14/08/2008 22:53:02
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 14/08/2008 22:51:15
Originally by: RDevz
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Strange, I get them pretty often. And not bringing them in the equation is stupid.
My current average with faction spawn is 60 millions, in -0.42 sec space.
Without the faction spawn is 25.
Notice the difference of including them? Still convinced that not including them is the right way to calculate the returns of ratting?
Calling shenanigans. Even assuming every one dropped a 175m item, that's an average of one faction spawn every 5 hours. Unless there are some serious imbalances between a -0.7 in angel rat space, where I've had 2 in about 80 hours of ratting, I'm forced to conclude that your post is an outright fabrication.
Try searching for encounter sites while you rat. It increase the faction spawn found. And yes, you are spot on. Currently I am at 1 faction every 5 hours. But as I have (probably) had serious luck) I have halved the result to 30-40 mill as in the first post about return ratting.
Edit, more like 1 faction every 4 hours for that result.
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
He might just be lucky, neither your or his subjective experience carry special validity
That is why I have spoken about 30-40 million average and not 60.
Originally by: Gamesguy
the suicide ganking is merely an isk farming activity.
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