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Ratchet Darkblade Gallente The Fated	Posted - 2008.08.21 15:52:00 - [241] Edited by: Ratchet Darkblade on 21/08/2008 15:53:18 Edited by: Ratchet Darkblade on 21/08/2008 15:52:24 Untill the later DS9 early voyager season Comabat in warp never really happened. They had stated fireing a phazer in warp wouldnt work very well, the only warp capable weapon they had was the Torp. But after the first season of voyager where that ship was seen in combat in warp firing phazers they changed the tech line saying they had fixed the problem with phazer combat at warp. And no the shields do not go down while in warp. Also star wars turbo lasers are not lasers at all. They are cannons that fire a charged plasma bolt like a shell, much like the Arties in eve. On the scales of power generation lets look at it like this. Startrek uses Antimatter/Matter warp engines or the singularity engine (romualns) B5 uses fusion, plasma and Zero point spacial taps (the shadows vorlons and Membari use the last type) Star wars if i am right i thinking use Plasma based reactors. Eve uses fission, fusion, gravimetric engine (some thing akin to the singularity engine me thinks) and Plasma. Stargate using fussion (this inculdes the Naquitar reactors) and Zero point spacial taps. In order of power generations the power out puts are stacked Zero point, antimatter, singularity, plasma, fusion and fisson. As a basic rule of thumb the ships powered by the varying types of engine would all be stacked in power accordingly to their method of power generation and then the means with which they out put this engery in its leathal format. One thing i will say here is that the stargate and B5 zero point spacial taps are a tad different. In B5 the large ships have an active tap into zero point space giving them nearly limitless power, the Stargate ZPM is a bottle filled with zero point juice and only lasts so long. I think that the high end B5 ships (shadow and vorlon) would probs top any other scifi ship for raw power generation and application of the power. In a straight knife fight they would just rip the crap out of most ships they face.
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2008.08.21 17:10:00 - [242] Pottsey it was the Enterprise, and that wasn't the only time. Continual photon bombardment will bring down the ships shields. The quote in question is quite clearly an exaggeration; the implication being "those puny lasers on that ancient bucket of bolts are no threat". Alas Starwars Turbolasers are not 'punny lasers' (200,000 MT per shot on a clone wars-ear troop transport, orders of magnitude higher on the heavy weapons) As to the rest, you never see a ST ship fight at warp against a non-warp target, infact at 'sublight' speeds the ranges are mostly visual range (thinking particularly DS9 era here), which puts them firmly within Eve ships reach. P.s ST technical manual has absolutely zero canonical status, photon torpedo yields (as witnessed in shots against asteroids) put them roughly on a par with the light, point defence weaponry used on SW ships (tens-hundreds KT). P.p.s Culture > all
Trancehacker	Posted - 2008.08.21 18:44:00 - [243] How Bout the "Death Blossom" Move the Ship in "The Last Starfighter" does, that would be a Kik Azz addition to an Eve ship, It's an older flick from the 80's.
Salvar Ar'adim State Property	Posted - 2008.08.21 18:57:00 - [244] Edited by: Salvar Ar''adim on 21/08/2008 18:57:29 Originally by: Trancehacker How Bout the "Death Blossom" Move the Ship in "The Last Starfighter" does, that would be a Kik Azz addition to an Eve ship, It's an older flick from the 80's. I love that movie and that scene kicks ass above all. Pottesy, they problem with Star Trek is the writers just adjust the technical cannon in order to allow the ships to do whatever is needed for plot related reasons (some more questionable than others) and they justify it as "that problem was fixed." BSG, Stargate, B5, etc, tended to have prominent limitations that were never overcome because it adds a level of vulnerability to the characters and ships. This is why, despite the fact that the powersource of a Daedellus class battlecruiser litterally dwarfs ST ships, it was always vulnerable because the show would have been boring otherwise. Just like how the enemies Star Trek captains have to face will invariably have invented some new technology that penetrates the impenetrable starfleet shields. If your going to even try to compare these ships you have to do it from a emperical point of view (power-output, speed, etc) and not get caught up in abilities, vulnerabilities, etc that one character mentions one time in a single episode and than doesn't apply in another. ______ Salvar Ar'Adim [RLLUP]State Property Originally by: CCP Wrangler Get Chribba to publically denounce Veldspar, then we can start discussing winning EVE...
Jack Airron Gallente Universal Mining Inc Forged Dominion	Posted - 2008.08.21 18:59:00 - [245] Edited by: Jack Airron on 21/08/2008 18:59:48 Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 20/08/2008 22:48:32 "and it's rediculous to believe that any weapon system could track a target in normal space time while that ship is at warp" According to the technical manual your wrong. Federation ships and torpedoes have FTL sensors and computers that process at FTL speeds page 129. During the show there have been times where a torpedo was fired from impulse then went to warp and fired from warp and hit impulse targets e.c.t. New ships like the Voyager and even the real old ships like the Enterprise NX-01 have fired weapons while at warp. A federation ships can shoot torpedoes at targets with the torpedoes at warp speed. The kinetic damage alone from the speed is enough to take out most ships from none Star Trek universe's. So I stand by what I said Star Trek could just shoot stargate and star wars ships from warp speed. EDIT: There have been times where torpedoes where shot from 600 million km away and all hit there target. This is the reason Star Trek ships outrange most other ships, they can sit lightyears away and fire at you. There was that time when mark VI photons torpedoes travailed 675,000,000km to hit a Dreadnought missile and all torpedoes hit. Flight time was 1.5seconds. That was a small target as well. "The problem with your points is that they all rely on laws of physics that vary from one IP to another." I assume if a ship can do something in the Star Trek or Eve universe then that ship can do it in the other universe if it somehow crossed over. Otherwise it becomes impossible to really compare. That or any ship crossing over to another universe would stop working right away as the laws of physics its tech is based on no longer apply along with the fual and ammo problems. reactors shut down, life support goes off e.c.t I also assume tech with the same name between universes is really the same. for example I assume lasers are the same and not different weapons with the same name between universes. Same for railguns and other weapons. They might work a little differently due to laws of physics change's but they are still the same weapon. Unless its very clear they are not the same. "On the other hand, to refute your "firing in warp" point; Star Trek ships cannot keep their shields up while at warp," What since when? Are you thinking of cloaking that lowers shields. Warp doesn't as far as I recall. Then again it has been years since I watched Voyager. Got any links that say shields drop? With the amounts of fights at warp speeds I dont bealive shields go down. " but what you are spouting is the same old stuff that's shot down time and again since the whole 'vs. debates' started. A Good site & forums which took centre place in these sorts of 'debates' in the last few years," At a glance I don't see my bits being shot down. I see them ignore things like deflecting lasers in the Star Wars vs Star Trek in Five Minutes on the front page. But it's a big site, could you link to bits that shout my ideas down? I quickly looked on the forum and found some people talking about lasers and tuber lasers being deflected. No one shot that idea down. Didn't see anything talking about fighting at warp speed. "Pottsey that's a blatent 'no limits fallacy' and proven untrue in other ST episodes when Solar radiation is a threat" That's because the Enterprise wasn't the ship with the adjusted shields so Solar radiation is a threat. At least I don't think it was the Enterprise pretty sure it was a test ship. Been over 10 years since I watched that episode. even if star trek could fire torps in warp the max yield of a photon torp is only 60MT. When earth was under attack by Anubis the plasma blasts he fired where equal to a 1000MT nuke. and the earth ships now with asguard shields and weapons would never be hurt by that amount of energy let alone a 60 MT nuke. blarg
Ash Bringer	Posted - 2008.08.21 23:36:00 - [246] srry to interrupt but this page of this thread nothing to do with eve :P Go home geeks
John Yancy	Posted - 2008.08.21 23:52:00 - [247] K, which is bigger, a Guild Heighliner (Frank Herbert's Dune), or a Titan? And which Titan/Dread does the Heighliner look most like? I'm leaning towards an Erebus myself.
Jack Airron Gallente Universal Mining Inc Forged Dominion	Posted - 2008.08.22 19:10:00 - [248] Originally by: Ash Bringer srry to interrupt but this page of this thread nothing to do with eve :P Go home geeks go home wow nerd http://www.wowwiki.com/Ashbringer and in the title it says EVE SHIPS blarg
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2008.08.22 20:21:00 - [249] Edited by: Pottsey on 22/08/2008 20:23:54 "even if star trek could fire torps in warp the max yield of a photon torp is only 60MT." That's because even without the warhead its more deadly than most weapons. A two meter long, two hundred and fifty kilogram object, travelling at way over 500,000,000 KM/S is pretty deadly without the warhead backing it up. The Kinetic damage from that is crazy, far higher than 60MT I bet. Anyone want to do the math. Anyway photon torp are the lowest end torps on a Star Trek ship. If they shot a photon torp and it did no damage they would just swap to the high end torps. "As to the rest, you never see a ST ship fight at warp against a non-warp target," "Untill the later DS9 early voyager season Comabat in warp never really happened." It happened all the time even in the older stuff. Its rare because no one in their right mind would move that slow in a fight. Star Trek, The Motion Picture the Enterprise is going at warp 1 and gets stuck in warp due to an engines malfunction. They fire a torpedo to destroy an asteroid without coming out of warp. Then after the asteroid is destroyed they fix the engine and slow to impulse. Episode Balance of Terror Kirk orders "Full ahead Mr Sulu, maximum warp" then orders to fire on the Romulan ship. Romulan ships back then didn't have warp drives. In fact wasn't the whole reason the Federation won the first war with the Romulans was due to the warp drive. Episode Elaan of Troyius had some warp 6/7 speed battles between the Enterprise. Episode The Ultimate Computer. An old class ore freighter ship which has no warp drive is shot at. The Enterprise is cruising at warp 3 then accelerates to warp 4 for the attack and the ship is destroyed " When earth was under attack by Anubis the plasma blasts he fired where equal to a 1000MT nuke. and the earth ships now with asguard shields and weapons would never be hurt by that amount of energy let alone a 60 MT nuke." Photon torpedo are low powered torpedoes, the hard hitting torpedoed use ZPM like power. You know those ZPM's zero-point energy modules that power ships in Stargate. Star Trek use the same energy as that per torpedoe (Quantum torpedoes). All the power one Stargate ship has focused into 1 torpedoe. Then multiple that power as more then 1 torpedo is shot. Quantum torpedoes would devastate starwars and stargate ships. Quantum torpedoes derive their destructive power from zero-point energy. ZPM like power in a torpedoes moveing at over 500,000,000 KM/S. ____ Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation (www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
Jack Airron Gallente Universal Mining Inc Forged Dominion	Posted - 2008.08.22 20:48:00 - [250] Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 22/08/2008 20:36:56 "even if star trek could fire torps in warp the max yield of a photon torp is only 60MT." That's because even without the warhead its more deadly than most weapons. A two meter long, two hundred and fifty kilogram object, travelling at way over 500,000,000 KM/S is pretty deadly without the warhead backing it up. The Kinetic damage from that is crazy, far higher than 60MT I bet. Anyone want to do the math. Anyway photon torp are the lowest end torps on a Star Trek ship. If they shot a photon torp and it did no damage they would just swap to the high end torps. "As to the rest, you never see a ST ship fight at warp against a non-warp target," "Untill the later DS9 early voyager season Comabat in warp never really happened." It happened all the time even in the older stuff. Its rare because no one in their right mind would move that slow in a fight. Star Trek, The Motion Picture the Enterprise is going at warp 1 and gets stuck in warp due to an engines malfunction. They fire a torpedo to destroy an asteroid without coming out of warp. Then after the asteroid is destroyed they fix the engine and slow to impulse. Episode Balance of Terror Kirk orders "Full ahead Mr Sulu, maximum warp" then orders to fire on the Romulan ship. Romulan ships back then didn't have warp drives. In fact wasn't the whole reason the Federation won the first war with the Romulans was due to the warp drive. Episode Elaan of Troyius had some warp 6/7 speed battles between the Enterprise. Episode The Ultimate Computer. An old class ore freighter ship which has no warp drive is shot at. The Enterprise is cruising at warp 3 then accelerates to warp 4 for the attack and the ship is destroyed " When earth was under attack by Anubis the plasma blasts he fired where equal to a 1000MT nuke. and the earth ships now with asguard shields and weapons would never be hurt by that amount of energy let alone a 60 MT nuke." Photon torpedo are low powered torpedoes, the hard hitting torpedoed use ZPM like power. You know those ZPM's zero-point energy modules that power ships in Stargate. Star Trek use the same energy as that per torpedoe (Quantum torpedoes). All the power one Stargate ship has focused into 1 torpedoe. Then multiple that power as more then 1 torpedo is shot. Quantum torpedoes would devastate starwars and stargate ships. Quantum torpedoes derive their destructive power from zero-point energy. ZPM like power in a torpedoes moveing at over 500,000,000 KM/S. If the Quantum torpedoes somehow are not enough and war broke out they will have to just bring out the Transphasic torpedoes the most powerful weapon used on a Federation ship in the Star Trek universe. Though its not clear how many they have and for sure they are not on ships as standard. There are also the Phased plasma torpedoes which use an advanced variation of the quantum torpedo that can phase out of normal space-time to bypass shields and apear in your hull. Although they are illegal like pretty much all phase tech like the Pegasus device. I am sure in a bad situation like a losing war they would break the treaty and use all the phase tech. One shuttle with a Pegasus device would be able to take down a Deathstar or any ship in Starwars. No wonder its illegal. ok so now that we are entering the realm of "IF" "BUT" all a stargate ship would have to do is beam the torp that the star trek ship fired right back at them or use the rail guns as point defence blarg

Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2008.08.22 21:03:00 - [251] Edited by: Pottsey on 22/08/2008 21:04:51 " ok so now that we are entering the realm of "IF" "BUT" all a stargate ship would have to do is beam the torp that the star trek ship fired right back at them or use the rail guns as point defence blarg" Little problem Stargate ships cannot fire point defence at something moving faster than the speed of light. Pretty sure they cannot beam something moving that fast. Stargate have the same problem as Startrek in that they cannot beam with shields up. If one ship droped shields it opens them up to none torp/missile weapon fire. Plus torps are not used one at a time normally a volly is sent. Can they even beam up more than one FTL object at once? If they could why don't they ever beam darts and other slow moving weapons let FTL moving ones? Realistically both ships would have shields up in a fight. Beaming teach doesn't really factor into it. Its far to short range and to risky. Anyway if StarTrek met Stargate it would be super boring all they would want to do is talk all day about humanity and peace. I recon though Stargate V Starwars would be interesting. ____ Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation (www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
Oktacon Caldari Exiled. Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.08.22 21:34:00 - [252] Edited by: Oktacon on 22/08/2008 21:34:46 Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 22/08/2008 21:08:40 " ok so now that we are entering the realm of "IF" "BUT" all a stargate ship would have to do is beam the torp that the star trek ship fired right back at them or use the rail guns as point defence blarg" Little problem Stargate ships cannot fire point defence at something moving faster than the speed of light. Pretty sure they cannot beam something moving that fast. Stargate have the same problem as Startrek in that they cannot beam with shields up. If one ship droped shields it opens them up to none torp/missile weapon fire. Plus torps are not used one at a time normally a volly is sent. Can they even beam up more than one FTL object at once? If they could why don't they ever beam darts and other slow moving weapons let alone FTL moving ones? Realistically both ships would have shields up in a fight. Beaming teach doesn't really factor into it. Its far to short range and to risky. Anyway if StarTrek met Stargate it would be super boring all they would want to do is talk all day about humanity and peace. I recon though Stargate V Starwars would be interesting. EDIT: Or put it another way by the time the torp was in beaming range and hit the ship less then half a second would have gone by if not much less. I dont think there would be time to get a lock and beam it unless it was moveing at slow speeds which would be very odd. Hyperspace in Stargate really doesn't allow for anything. Earth ships can teleport just fine with shields up thanks to Asgard tech. The other guys can't do it though. And also, Asgard tech is locked pretty heavily down. There are safeguards that prevent them from beaming nukes unless an Asgard allows it (But seems like they've gotten around this really) Stargate ships would most likely own. The Daedalus can take down on its own several Ori ships. These are the same ships that had over 50 ships each with firepower measuring in the gigatons firing at them and didn't flinch. These are the same ships that can blow up those same ships with one shot, which means THEIR weapons are field several hundred Gigatons, juding from the fact that we fired a Gigaton nuke at them, and didn't even scrath the shields of an older ship. The shield of the Daedalus stood up to a Planet Killing SOLAR FLARE and also several minutes of continued fire by the aformentioned Ori ships. Its also damn maneuverable and can weave in and out of larger ships. They also have Horizon weaponry which basically consists of a dozen Naquada enhanced nukes and are designed to take out Stargates, which is extremely hard to do, consiering it can survive next to a giant black hole without being ripped apart. If worst came to worst, they could deploy a Stargate with the other side connected to a black hole and let it lose in a System of their choosing. The system would disappearpretty damn fast Also with Ancient Tech, they have even stronger weapons and shileds and engines. Star Trek has nothing on Stargate
Jack Airron Gallente Universal Mining Inc Forged Dominion	Posted - 2008.08.22 21:35:00 - [253] Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 22/08/2008 21:08:40 " ok so now that we are entering the realm of "IF" "BUT" all a stargate ship would have to do is beam the torp that the star trek ship fired right back at them or use the rail guns as point defence blarg" Little problem Stargate ships cannot fire point defence at something moving faster than the speed of light. Pretty sure they cannot beam something moving that fast. Stargate have the same problem as Startrek in that they cannot beam with shields up. If one ship droped shields it opens them up to none torp/missile weapon fire. Plus torps are not used one at a time normally a volly is sent. Can they even beam up more than one FTL object at once? If they could why don't they ever beam darts and other slow moving weapons let alone FTL moving ones? Realistically both ships would have shields up in a fight. Beaming teach doesn't really factor into it. Its far to short range and to risky. Anyway if StarTrek met Stargate it would be super boring all they would want to do is talk all day about humanity and peace. I recon though Stargate V Starwars would be interesting. EDIT: Or put it another way by the time the torp was in beaming range and hit the ship less then half a second would have gone by if not much less. I dont think there would be time to get a lock and beam it unless it was moveing at slow speeds which would be very odd. ok so ill entertain your idea of fighting in warp however there is one problem with you fighting at warp theory. why is it that in star trek first contact that they did not just zip around the Borg cube at warp 7-9? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fsCGSoo2k4 from that video i can see that most of the ships are within 30 KM of the Borg cube blarg
Commander Vic Minmatar Ioncross	Posted - 2008.08.22 22:06:00 - [254] Eve ships would always win, not because of the technology or the size of our collective guns. You see, the trekkies would come in peace, get scammed out of their ships and suicide ganked in their shuttles. The deathstar would be reprocessed and sold for a 20% profit while thousands of the WH40K space marines would simply sit in hangars with the thousands of exotic dancers, janitors, marines, militants and slaves already there. Besides, if they actually showed up ready to fight we'd all stay docked in our invulnerable stations while they tried to repeatedly kill the same macro miner(s) until they gave up and left. Anything that survived would be nerfed in the next patch.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2008.08.22 22:42:00 - [255] " all a stargate ship would have to do is beam the torp" I just remember torpedoes have their own shields. So no beaming. " however there is one problem with you fighting at warp theory. " It's not a theory they do it all the time. I clearly listed episodes and movies where they do it from the original Star trek to the newer ones. " Earth ships can teleport just fine with shields up thanks to Asgard tech." No they cannot. First episode of the latest session "In order to beam Sheppard and Dex out, the shields of the Daedalus are lowered temporarily, and Michael's cruiser is able to score a few direct hits taking the Asgard weapons and engines off-line" Cannot think of any time they didnt lower shields. "Stargate ships would most likely own." Yes they do if they can hit their target. My point is a Startrek ship could stay at warp and never get hit by the Stargate ship, yet the Startrek ship could fire back. That and I believe the Star trek high powered weapons match the Asgard weapons if not do more damage then the Asgard. Like I said before the power source for the whole entire Daedalus is the same type of power source Startrek use per torpedo. Surly that gives star trek the edge. Asgard are one race the Federation is made up of 150+ race's each an empire in their own right and many who have been in space a very long time. The humans are new in space but the other Federation race's are not thats why the ships are so advance. "Naquada enhanced nukes" They are about the same power level as the weakest Federation torpedoes at my estermate. " why is it that in star trek first contact that they did not just zip around the Borg cube at warp 7-9?" I believe most of the Federation's defense force where doing that. A defense force is normally made up of a lot of ships, far more then was on screen. We only had what 10 on screen? Either the Borg destroyed 90%+ of the fleet or the rest of the fleet was at light speeds and we couldn't see them as we are viewing the battle from a handful of ships moving at sub light speed. What makes the most sense to me is most ships we could see had battle damage and lost warp power. The other possibilities are phasers are generally impulse speed weapons perhaps they wanted to use phasers at close range? Well the battle had been going on for a while and was almost at the end. Who knows perhaps the Borg used some anti warp field that stopped ships staying in warp? Perhaps there was no tactical advantage in being in warp as the Borg can hit ships in warp just as well as sub warp. For all we know the ships where fighting at warp and only dropped out of warp due to damage or as they got close to Earth. Most of the ships being at warp and a handfull not I think is the best bet. Well we all know the real reason, warping in circles and firing torps at long range would be boring on screen. The end of a battle at sub light speeds with the planet earth in the background looks far better on screen. ____ Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation (www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
Oktacon Caldari Exiled. Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.08.22 23:08:00 - [256] Edited by: Oktacon on 22/08/2008 23:08:49 Edited by: Oktacon on 22/08/2008 23:08:33 Quote: Cannot think of any time they didnt lower shields. Well, considering they can fire their own weapons without lowering their shields, I donm't see why not. There are plenty of shots showing ships firing their weapons while their shileds are taking massive damage There was also several Wraith battles where they beamed nukes into the ships under fire, which probably means they didn't touch the shields. Anytime they show outgoing fire, the shields are never lowered. Quote: Yes they do if they can hit their target. My point is a Startrek ship could stay at warp and never get hit by the Stargate ship, yet the Startrek ship could fire back Fine, if Earth ships can't hit it, they would just fly away. Can Federation ships fly at 31,250 ly per hour? Quote: Like I said before the power source for the whole entire Daedalus is the same type of power source Startrek use per torpedo I severly doubt that. A single ZPM booby trappped would have taken out our entire solar system. Unless every single shot fired by Star Trek ships destroyed entire solar systems, I doubt it.. the ZPM takes energy from another Universe inside of it. The federation ships have perefected this to the extent of firing it on every torpedo? If you're talking about Quantum torpedoes, yeah.. still not taking out solar systems... Quote: They are about the same power level as the weakest Federation torpedoes at my estermate. Well, each of these guys have power levels in the 5-10 or so gigatons. And the Horizon system fires 6 of them in 1 missile. By comparison a photon torpedo does 64.5 megatons. So, by rough estimate 20(1 Gigaton of explosive)x 30 (For lowest output) or 60(Higest output) = 1200 of these babies are equivalent to 1 Horizon missile. Or,20 of these to equal our first experimental naquada nuke. (1 Gigaton) Hell, a photon torp isn't that strong at all. It has the output of the biggest nuke we have today, (50 MT) and half of that of its experimental output (100 GT)
Jack Airron Gallente Universal Mining Inc Forged Dominion	Posted - 2008.08.22 23:31:00 - [257] Edited by: Jack Airron on 22/08/2008 23:33:05 Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 22/08/2008 23:07:20 " all a stargate ship would have to do is beam the torp" I just remember torpedoes have their own shields. So no beaming. "The shield of the Daedalus stood up to a Planet Killing SOLAR FLARE" The Federation torpedoes with much weaker shields then the ships can enter a sun and burrow into its stellar core before the shields fail. Once a ship spent hours in the sun corona without any damage. EDIT: Enterprise also hid in a star's corona far more impressive then one tiny solar flare. In fact the Daedalus can only last a short while there going be how the flar effected it and by what happaned in "The Daedalus Variations" This shows the Enterprise has stronger shields. " however there is one problem with you fighting at warp theory. " It's not a theory they do it all the time. I clearly listed episodes and movies where they do it from the original Star trek to the newer ones. " Earth ships can teleport just fine with shields up thanks to Asgard tech." No they cannot. First episode of the latest session "In order to beam Sheppard and Dex out, the shields of the Daedalus are lowered temporarily, and Michael's cruiser is able to score a few direct hits taking the Asgard weapons and engines off-line" Cannot think of any time they didnt lower shields. "Stargate ships would most likely own." Yes they do if they can hit their target. My point is a Startrek ship could stay at warp and never get hit by the Stargate ship, yet the Startrek ship could fire back. That and I believe the Star trek high powered weapons match the Asgard weapons if not do more damage then the Asgard. Like I said before the power source for the whole entire Daedalus is the same type of power source Startrek use per torpedo. Surly that gives star trek the edge. Asgard are one race the Federation is made up of 150+ race's each an empire in their own right and many who have been in space a very long time. The humans are new in space but the other Federation race's are not thats why the ships are so advance. "Naquada enhanced nukes" They are about the same power level as the weakest Federation torpedoes at my estermate. " why is it that in star trek first contact that they did not just zip around the Borg cube at warp 7-9?" I believe most of the Federation's defense force where doing that. A defense force is normally made up of a lot of ships, far more then was on screen. We only had what 10 on screen? Either the Borg destroyed 90%+ of the fleet or the rest of the fleet was at light speeds and we couldn't see them as we are viewing the battle from a handful of ships moving at sub light speed. What makes the most sense to me is most ships we could see had battle damage and lost warp power. The other possibilities are phasers are generally impulse speed weapons perhaps they wanted to use phasers at close range? Well the battle had been going on for a while and was almost at the end. Who knows perhaps the Borg used some anti warp field that stopped ships staying in warp? Perhaps there was no tactical advantage in being in warp as the Borg can hit ships in warp just as well as sub warp. For all we know the ships where fighting at warp and only dropped out of warp due to damage or as they got close to Earth. Most of the ships being at warp and a handfull not I think is the best bet. Well we all know the real reason, warping in circles and firing torps at long range would be boring on screen. The end of a battle at sub light speeds with the planet earth in the background looks far better on screen. o bull shit now thats just speculation the ADMIRALS ship was destroyed you would think out of every body the admiral would want to keep at a safe distance to command the battle blarg
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2008.08.22 23:49:00 - [258] Edited by: Pottsey on 22/08/2008 23:51:43 "bull shit now thats just speculation" Of course its speculation what else did you expect? You asked a questions where the only decent answer is speculation. The only answer that I can give without speculation is they can if they want to fight at warp speeds. Sometimes for some reason they choose not to. We have no info on the battle only the last couple of mins of the battle. "Well, considering they can fire their own weapons without lowering their shields, I donm't see why not. There are plenty of shots showing ships firing their weapons while their shileds are taking massive damage" Well they cannot use beam tech with shields, I gave you a recent episode where they almost lost the ship as they had to drop shields to use beam tech. " The federation ships have perefected this to the extent of firing it on every torpedo?" Yes for the war ships but no for none war ships. The none war ships have a stock of those torpedoes along with a stock of weaker normal photon torpedos. The war ships we have only ever seen shoot the powerfull torpedo's. "If you're talking about Quantum torpedoes, yeah.. still not taking out solar systems..." That's because they are focused making them more deadly. Instead of a solar system wide explosion you have that much energy forced into a small blast area. An explosion that covers a solar system is well useless, not only does it hit you and friendly targets but it means spreading the energy around a vast area. Focuseing that energy in a blast the size of a ship is more deadly, with the crazy strength of Star Trek shields that can fly into suns. You need to focus that energy. The last time Quantum torpedoes was used the explosion visually resembled a supernova but the blast area was contained in a small area. There have been lots of refrence's to changeing the blast size of torpedoes. Torpedoes have at least 16 settings and you can modifier more if needed with a few hours work. " Fine, if Earth ships can't hit it, they would just fly away. Can Federation ships fly at 31,250 ly per hour?" It looks like it depending on the ship. http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/Warp_factor explains how to covert warp to ly per hour. Enterprise E has a cruise speed of up to warp 9.985 which I believe is over 31,250 ly per hour. It can push faster for short periods of time. The Enterprise D was a cruise speed of 9.6, which it could go over for short bursts. I think 9.6 is below 31,250 ly per hour. A very old ship like the Voyager maximum warp is 9.975 "By comparison a photon torpedo does 64.5 megatons." As I said many times before a photon torpedoed can be adjusted to do more or less than 64.5 megatons. It can be adjusted up to destroy small planet which is a lot more then 64.5 megatons. A photon torpedo is the low end of torpedo you don't even get photon torpedos on Federation war ships so why does it matter? If war broke out between Stargate and StarTrek photon torpedoes would not be used in fleet battles. ____ Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation (www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
Joe Starbreaker AnTi.	Posted - 2008.08.22 23:53:00 - [259] How about the Heart of Gold? One charge of the Infinite Improbability Drive would drive BoB out of Delve and make the Goons honest. Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto All piracy is built upon honoring one's word.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Enterprises	Posted - 2008.08.22 23:58:00 - [260] Edited by: HankMurphy on 22/08/2008 23:58:13 1.21 gigawatts? 1.21 GIGAWATTS!?!? Great Scott!!!!!ONE!!ELEVEN!! edit: the SDF-1 will smoke all those *****es ------------------------------ of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most

Plim Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.08.23 01:33:00 - [261] The Enterprise captained by Kirk is basically indestructable. It's Kirk. Think about it. He changes the rules of the game. Plus he has his special 'Khaaan' power up. Rudolf: "I was sworn to absolute secrecy by Santa Claus."
Jack Airron Gallente Universal Mining Inc Forged Dominion	Posted - 2008.08.23 03:00:00 - [262] Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 23/08/2008 00:07:20 " "Well, considering they can fire their own weapons without lowering their shields, I donm't see why not. There are plenty of shots showing ships firing their weapons while their shileds are taking massive damage" Well they cannot use beam tech with shields, I gave you a recent episode where they almost lost the ship as they had to drop shields to use beam tech. " The federation ships have perefected this to the extent of firing it on every torpedo?" Yes for the war ships but no for none war ships. The none war ships have a stock of those torpedoes along with a stock of weaker normal photon torpedos. The war ships we have only ever seen shoot the powerfull torpedo's. "If you're talking about Quantum torpedoes, yeah.. still not taking out solar systems..." That's because they are focused making them more deadly. Instead of a solar system wide explosion you have that much energy forced into a small blast area. An explosion that covers a solar system is well useless, not only does it hit you and friendly targets but it means spreading the energy around a vast area. Focuseing that energy in a blast the size of a ship is more deadly, with the crazy strength of Star Trek shields that can fly into suns. You need to focus that energy. The last time Quantum torpedoes was used the explosion visually resembled a supernova but the blast area was contained in a small area. There have been lots of refrence's to changeing the blast size of torpedoes. Torpedoes have at least 16 settings and you can modifier more if needed with a few hours work. " Fine, if Earth ships can't hit it, they would just fly away. Can Federation ships fly at 31,250 ly per hour?" It looks like it depending on the ship. http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/Warp_factor explains how to covert warp to ly per hour. Enterprise E has a cruise speed of up to warp 9.985 which I believe is over 31,250 ly per hour. It can push faster for short periods of time. The Enterprise D was a cruise speed of 9.6, which it could go over for short bursts. I think 9.6 is below 31,250 ly per hour. A very old ship like the Voyager maximum warp is 9.975 [b]"By comparison a photon torpedo does 64.5 megatons." As I said many times before a photon torpedoed can be adjusted to do more or less than 64.5 megatons. It can be adjusted up to destroy small planet which is a lot more then 64.5 megatons. A photon torpedo is the low end of torpedo you don't even get photon torpedos on Federation war ships so why does it matter? If war broke out between Stargate and StarTrek photon torpedoes would not be used in fleet battles. EDIT: Another thing about torps is they come in types and marks. The 64.44 megaton nuclear explosion is from the very old torps. The USS Voyager had type-6 photon torpedos which at default level are 523.2megatons. Class-10 torpedoes could be armed with an even more powerful high yield warhead but I don't have in info on numbers. Stargate ships travel to other galaxy a star trek ship cant do that so id say Stargate ships are quite a bit faster. if your looking at this from a purely war standing. you don't win a war by hurting or even killing the other side you win a war by scaring the livening shit out of them, break there spirit. ill set up a scenario for you. 3 earth ships drop out of hyper space over a star trek world they lock onto the biggest city on the planet and fire away with both nukes and the asguard beam weapons. they could also ambush star trek ships in orbit or that where docked at a station then get out, simple hit and run. blarg
Sha'ha'dem	Posted - 2008.08.23 03:46:00 - [263] Even a MIG could beat an Eve ship because when you get down to the nitty gritty, these things we are flying just aren't that technologically advanced. So you don't really need to look very far into the future to find something that is more than a match for these Eve ships. They are also suprisingly tiny.
Kiviar Caldari Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.08.23 04:24:00 - [264] The problem with Star Trek vs. anything is that in Star Trek, any sort of problem is just solved through writing in new and interesting magical technology. The problem with this, is that any sort of logical flaw or plothole is also solved with new rules for their current magitech. The annoying thing is that this leads to a great deal of inconsistancy within the universe. For example, You can't travel faster than warp 10, except when its made possible to advance the plot. You can't transport through shields, except when the plot needs you to, and then you magically can lock on to the minerals in someone's skeleton. It is these internal inconsistancies that make it impossible to compare Star Trek to any other universe which may or may not have an equally inconsistant technology base. There is absolutley no point in arguing over who would win in a fight, A Jovian Superior Male Forces High Mobility Cruiser, or the Enterprise, because the Enterprise would just fire an inverse tachyon beam and overload their gravitational sub-capacitors opening a rift in space time and sending them home the instant before they fire. ---
Calthornia Zelamar	Posted - 2008.08.23 05:19:00 - [265] Edited by: Calthornia Zelamar on 23/08/2008 05:21:55 I'm not sure why someone said EVE ships are relatively small. As far as I've seen, they're actually pretty large compared to the ships in a lot of universes. A megathron is actually about the size of an Imperial-class star destroyer, and a titan is I think slightly smaller than a super star destroyer. Anyway, I highly doubt the federation would immediately declare war on the entirety of EVE. Despite the idiocy of the average pod pilots, I'd think the empires would probably open diplomatic relations pretty quickly (and the Gallente/Minmatar would probably buddy up pretty fast; I can't see the federation liking the Amarr too much and the Caldari would be too capitalistic for their tastes.) Ed: Rag/Leviathan are about 18km, the others are slightly smaller. SSDs are about 19km. Go go google.
Sarkiss Caldari Angels In Mischief	Posted - 2008.08.23 09:53:00 - [266] Originally by: Calthornia Zelamar Edited by: Calthornia Zelamar on 23/08/2008 05:34:44 Edited by: Calthornia Zelamar on 23/08/2008 05:21:55 I'm not sure why someone said EVE ships are relatively small. As far as I've seen, they're actually pretty large compared to the ships in a lot of universes. A megathron is actually about the size of an Imperial-class star destroyer, and a titan is I think slightly smaller than a super star destroyer. Anyway, I highly doubt the federation would immediately declare war on the entirety of EVE. Despite the idiocy of the average pod pilots, I'd think the empires would probably open diplomatic relations pretty quickly (and the Gallente/Minmatar would probably buddy up pretty fast; I can't see the federation liking the Amarr too much and the Caldari would be too capitalistic for their tastes.) Ed: Rag/Leviathan are about 18km, the others are slightly smaller. SSDs are about 19km. Go go google. Further ed: Entertainingly, Star Wars scale seems to be roughly eve scale. Speed/rangewise, at least. That's a bit odd, especially given the power levels are significantly higher, but alright. Dude, go get some poontang
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2008.08.23 10:11:00 - [267] Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 22/08/2008 20:52:47 "even if star trek could fire torps in warp the max yield of a photon torp is only 60MT." That's because even without the warhead its more deadly than most weapons. A two meter long, two hundred and fifty kilogram object, travelling at way over 500,000,000 KM/S is pretty deadly without the warhead backing it up. The Kinetic damage from that is crazy, far higher than 60MT I bet. Anyone want to do the math. Anyway photon torp are the lowest end torps on a Star Trek ship. If they shot a photon torp and it did no damage they would just swap to the high end torps. No, they don't. They use warp 'trickery' to appear to move that fast, any derivations of kinetic energy from that are complete garbage. Besides, it has a warhead for a reason... Anyway as I said, CANON evidence suggests no more than mid KT-range yields for photon Torpedos. -------------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2008.08.23 10:15:00 - [268] "For example, You can't travel faster than warp 10, except when its made possible to advance the plot." That's not a inconsistency the scale of warp in the 23rd century is not the same as the 22nd century. Warp is a sliding scale based on current tech. Warp 5 in the early years of Enterprise 1 is much slower then warp 5 in the years of Enterprise D. In the 22nd century warp scaled from 1 to 40+ in the 23rd its 1 to 10. In the 24th century they re added warp 11, 12, 13 into the scale instead of having warp 10 as max. Really warp 11 in the 24th C is today's warp 9.9999999999 or something like that. It's not really practical to go warp factor 9.99999. Now speed up to warp 9.999999. So every so often in the timeline as speeds get faster they readjust what speeds each warp represents. It seems to get adjusted once a century. I do agree with your point about making new tech up. I mentioned it ages ago how they can never lose as they invent technobable. But it's not that much worse than other shows like Stargate Atlantis. It thought SGL had the right ballance but Atlantis is just as bad in fact I think it's getting worse recently. It feels like they are falling into the trap of lets use McKay to do something fancy to got us out this plot problem just like star trek did. Stargate needs to go back to the early SGL days in how they told storys. Atlantis has fallen to much into random new tech. " Stargate ships travel to other galaxy a star trek ship cant do that so id say Stargate ships are quite a bit faster." Well we have the light years per hour both ships can go at and Stargate ships are not faster. Well depends on which ship we are looking at. There is a reason Star Trek ships don't go out the galaxy as there is a Galactic Barrier or Great Barrier which is an energy field that surrounds the Milky Way Galaxy in the Star Trek universe. The field completely encompasses the galaxy and prevents travel beyond the edge. It's never explained if the barrier is natural or artificial. Most ships that try and go though the barrier end up in lots of little bits. The Enterprise and lots of have tried to leave the Milky Way Galaxy before. ____ Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation (www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2008.08.23 10:35:00 - [269] Edited by: Pottsey on 23/08/2008 10:35:37 "Anyway as I said, CANON evidence suggests no more than mid KT-range yields for photon Torpedos." Photon Torpedos are missile-like casings with lots of warhead options. Those low yeild torps are 20+ year old torps at low settings. Not only that but cannon evidence says torps have 16 settings per Torpedo and 10 power levels with lvl 10 violateing strategic arms limitation treaties. They dont have to use the lowest power level setting. On top of that there are lots of torpedo types. The Voyager had type 6 torpedos up to type 10 and beyond with type 6 more then 8x more powerful then than mid KT-range. Type 10 could hold warheads that destroy small planets. Canon evidence shows up to and beyond destroying small planets and large asteroids which is far beyound mid KT-range yields. Even the old Enterprise had enough firepower to destory large asteroids. ____ Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation (www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
KarGard Agent-Orange	Posted - 2008.08.23 14:38:00 - [270] Edited by: KarGard on 23/08/2008 14:40:45 Originally by: Kiviar There is absolutley no point in arguing over who would win in a fight, A Jovian Superior Male Forces High Mobility Cruiser, or the Enterprise, because the Enterprise would just fire an inverse tachyon beam and overload their gravitational sub-capacitors opening a rift in space time and sending them home the instant before they fire. This Everyone knows that inverse tachyon beams are the Swiss Army knives of space. Also, +5 points for the obscure Nadesico reference



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