| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 [10] 11 .. 11 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Merdorn
   |
Posted - 2008.08.23 15:06:00 -
[271]
MOO and MOO 2 ships would beat the pants off any EVE ships. HELLO shield piercing beams, Emissions guided MRVing armorplated fast missles that could destroy titans in 2 to 4 hits, shield AND armor pericing on the same beam, cybernetic/auto hual repair, and my persnal favorite: Cruisers that could Equip steller converters (Beam powerfull enough to reduce planets to roid fields and was no slouch vs titans).
|
Laerise
Amarr
PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.08.23 15:58:00 -
[272]
Since everyone (esp. Pottsey) seems to go into full nerd rage mode here let me just add one thing to end the whole discussion.
A well fed C'tan will kill anything within the blink of an eye.
Once the Outcast breaks free from the d-sphere its basically game over, not enough C'tan left to throw him back into the sphere, no ancients left who could physically/psionically beat him (Khaine being splintered for one.. and the Talismans of Vaul aren't intact anymore).
There, nerd rage done 
|
Jack Airron
Gallente
Universal Mining Inc
Forged Dominion
|
Posted - 2008.08.23 16:01:00 -
[273]
 Originally by: Pottsey
"For example, You can't travel faster than warp 10, except when its made possible to advance the plot."
That's not a inconsistency the scale of warp in the 23rd century is not the same as the 22nd century. Warp is a sliding scale based on current tech. Warp 5 in the early years of Enterprise 1 is much slower then warp 5 in the years of Enterprise D. In the 22nd century warp scaled from 1 to 40+ in the 23rd its 1 to 10. In the 24th century they re added warp 11, 12, 13 into the scale instead of having warp 10 as max. Really warp 11 in the 24th C is today's warp 9.9999999999 or something like that.
It's not really practical to go warp factor 9.99999. Now speed up to warp 9.999999. So every so often in the timeline as speeds get faster they readjust what speeds each warp represents. It seems to get adjusted once a century.
I do agree with your point about making new tech up. I mentioned it ages ago how they can never lose as they invent technobable. But it's not that much worse than other shows like Stargate Atlantis. It thought SGL had the right ballance but Atlantis is just as bad in fact I think it's getting worse recently. It feels like they are falling into the trap of lets use McKay to do something fancy to got us out this plot problem just like star trek did. Stargate needs to go back to the early SGL days in how they told storys. Atlantis has fallen to much into random new tech.
" Stargate ships travel to other galaxy a star trek ship cant do that so id say Stargate ships are quite a bit faster."
Well we have the light years per hour both ships can go at and Stargate ships are not faster. Well depends on which ship we are looking at.
There is a reason Star Trek ships don't go out the galaxy as there is a Galactic Barrier or Great Barrier which is an energy field that surrounds the Milky Way Galaxy in the Star Trek universe. The field completely encompasses the galaxy and prevents travel beyond the edge. It's never explained if the barrier is natural or artificial. Most ships that try and go though the barrier end up in lots of little bits.
The Enterprise and lots of have tried to leave the Milky Way Galaxy before.
Even at Maximum warp, Voyager would've taken I think 75 years to return to the Alpha Quadrant..from the Delta Quadrant. As fast as the Enterprise is...it would take hundreds of years just for the ship to travel clear across the Milky Way Galaxy.
Stargate ships do this in less then a few days.
feel free to try and disprove me but if you try to your also saying the the voyager series was based on a false premise
blarg |
Harvard Lancaster
|
Posted - 2008.08.23 16:54:00 -
[274]
Just wait until my books come out - the Kingston will defeat at least three competing universes singlehandedly.
|
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
|
Posted - 2008.08.23 21:18:00 -
[275]
"Even at Maximum warp, Voyager would've taken I think 75 years to return to the Alpha Quadrant..."
Yoyager series was based on a false premise. For the ship to take 75 year it would have needed to travel at a slow warp of 7.9 to fly 75k light years which is nowhere near its max cruising speed or max total speed. Voyager never made any sense they had the supplies and fuel to travel back to the Federation in warp without stopping in a fraction of the time it took them.
I don't see how Stargate ships with their current speeds can travel between galaxy's as fast as they do. The math doesn't add up. Unless the Pegasus galaxy is very close to the Milky Way, closer then the nearest real galaxy.
|
Jack Airron
Gallente
Universal Mining Inc
Forged Dominion
|
Posted - 2008.08.23 21:54:00 -
[276]
Originally by: Pottsey
"Even at Maximum warp, Voyager would've taken I think 75 years to return to the Alpha Quadrant..."
Yoyager series was based on a false premise. For the ship to take 75 year it would have needed to travel at a slow warp of 7.9 to fly 75k light years which is nowhere near its max cruising speed or max total speed. Voyager never made any sense they had the supplies and fuel to travel back to the Federation in warp without stopping in a fraction of the time it took them.
I don't see how Stargate ships with their current speeds can travel between galaxy's as fast as they do. The math doesn't add up. Unless the Pegasus galaxy is very close to the Milky Way, closer then the nearest real galaxy.
thy use hyperspace witch is a much faster way of traveling then warp...
In the Stargate universe, most spaceships are equipped with hyperdrives that open up a window to hyperspace. Different races have hyperdrives of varying speeds; a hyperdrive constructed by the Alterans (Ancients), or by the Asgard would be significantly faster than a Goa'uld hyperdrive. There are two types of hyperdrives; interstellar, which only allows the ship using that hyperdrive to travel between stars in one galaxy, and intergalactic, which allows the ship using it to travel greater distances and at greater speed. The only races shown having intergalactic hyperdrives are the Tau'ri, the Asgard, the Ancients/Alterans, the Ori, the Asuran human-form replicators, and the Milky-Way human-form replicators.
Most hyperdrives use the fictional Naquadah. Some, including Earth's, use the highly unstable isotope Naquadriah, and Ancient and/or Asgard hyperdrives may utilize alternative materials. Unlike hyperdrives used in other universes, Stargate hyperspace travel does not have to be navigated carefully and does not interact with real space and so allows the ship to go straight through black holes, stars etc. The speed of the hyperdrive can be increased by increasing its power by an external source, [in the case of Asgard hyperdrives] overpower it, but overpowering increases the chance of burning out the engines; or by modifying it manually.
When the Daedalus was powered by standard naquadah reactors, it took eighteen days to travel to Atlantis in the Pegasus galaxy; however, when the engineers rigged the ZPM sent for Atlantis' Ancient shield into the system, it took only 4 days. Earth's Daedalus-class battle cruiser the Odyssey is mentioned to have its own permanent ZPM during the war against the Ori, although it is unknown if the ZPM is sent to Atlantis following the Ori's eventual defeat.
Several ships can be encompassed in one hyperspace window by expanding the window but it takes a lot more power than usual. This isn't a problem if someone can install a ZPM, because a fully charged module can procure a huge amount of energy.
Hyperspace also has a type of "Hyperspace Radiation" which all Wraith ships suffer damage from and as a result must exit out of hyperspace every once in a while to allow their ships to "repair" from the hyperspace radiation damage. It is also believed that hyperspace radiation stops Asgard shields from functioning, and if turned on while exposed to hyperspace, the generators would explode.
-------taken from Wikipedia-------
cause im to lazy to type what iv already stated before.
now with the hyperspace drive earth ships could get around the barrier that you say the star trek universe has surrounding the milkyway.....
and I'm sure the voyager series is wrong and your right
blarg |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
|
Posted - 2008.08.23 23:02:00 -
[277]
Edited by: Pottsey on 23/08/2008 23:04:07
"and I'm sure the voyager series is wrong and your right"
Your just makeing your self look stupid with comments like that. Role your eyes as much as you want but its math and math doesn't lie. You can work it out yourself. They would have to go at a speed of warp 7.9 to take 75 years at the official warp speed scale.
The whole Startrek warp speed thing is messed up in all the shows. It never makes any sense. Paris describes warp 9.9 as 4 billion miles per second which is 21,458 times the speed of light. Yet the official scale warp 9.9 is 3,053 times the speed of light.
Voyager crosses 2 light years in 2 hours which means it could get home in less than 8 years. Yet the Enterprise can do the same 75k lightyear trip in 12 to 15 hours, but it takes the Voyager 75 years even though it goes fast enough to do it in less then 8? It's all just crazy and makes it impossible to compare to Stargate speeds.
In fact I give up on comparing Startrek speeds there are too many inconsistency's.
" now with the hyperspace drive earth ships could get around the barrier that you say the star trek universe has surrounding the milkyway....."
You cannot go around the barrier it encircles the whole galaxy in every direction. It's like a massive bubble around the galaxy. The barrier also has psychic powers that effect people trying to go though, shields dont stop psychic powers.
____
Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation
(www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
|
Jack Airron
Gallente
Universal Mining Inc
Forged Dominion
|
Posted - 2008.08.23 23:40:00 -
[278]
Edited by: Jack Airron on 23/08/2008 23:41:11
Originally by: Pottsey
Edited by: Pottsey on 23/08/2008 23:20:30
"and I'm sure the voyager series is wrong and your right"
Your just makeing your self look stupid with comments like that and roleing eyes. Role your eyes as much as you want but its math and math doesn't lie. You can work it out yourself.
No matter how you look at it voyager is wrong.
It's wrong by the official speeds it should go.
Its wrong by the speeds it goes in the show.
They would have to go at a speed of warp 7.9 to take 75 years at the official warp speed scale.
The whole Startrek warp speed thing is messed up in all the shows. It never makes any sense. Paris describes warp 9.9 as 4 billion miles per second which is 21,458 times the speed of light. Yet the official scale warp 9.9 is 3,053 times the speed of light.
Voyager crosses 2 light years in 2 hours which means it could get home in less than 8 years. Yet the Enterprise can do the same 75k lightyear trip in 12 to 15 hours, but it takes the Voyager 75 years even though it goes fast enough to do it in less then 8? It's all just crazy and makes it impossible to compare to Stargate speeds.
In fact I give up on comparing Startrek speeds there are too many inconsistency's.
EDIT: I take back my comment on Stargate ships speeds dont add up, they do.
" now with the hyperspace drive earth ships could get around the barrier that you say the star trek universe has surrounding the milkyway....."
You cannot go around the barrier it encircles the whole galaxy in every direction. It's like a massive bubble around the galaxy. The barrier also has psychic powers that effect people trying to go though, shields dont stop psychic powers.
you have no clue how hyper space works do you?
you slip into SUBSPACE nothing in the normal space time will effect the ship as long as its in subspace.
every thing is wrong but you right?
blarg |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2008.08.23 23:56:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Pottsey
Your just makeing your self look stupid with comments like that and roleing eyes. Role your eyes as much as you want but its math and math doesn't lie. You can work it out yourself.
Quote:
Your just makeing your self look stupid
Quote:
roleing eyes
Quote:
Role your eyes
Irony, thy name is Pottsey...
Anyway, you have it exactly right:
Quote:
In fact I give up on comparing Startrek speeds there are too many inconsistency's.
Star Trek is just a hopeless mess if you try to consider everything. There are just too many times where the same technology ranges from "near godlike" to "weaker than WWI" depending on what act of plot is required. No matter how you look at it, you're going to have to throw out some of it or you just have nonsense.
On speeds, you're pretty much forced to go with the slow example from Voyager. The isolated examples of "99999999999 times light!!!!" are much easier to write off as character mistakes ("oops, misplaced a decimal point") or idiot writers. But you just can't remove the entire premise of a series unless you want to rule all of Voyager non-canon. The common sense result is FTL that is not horrible, but well below a lot of other universes.
Or just to get the general intuitive sense: look at how much screen/plot time in Star Trek is spent on travel. Very often, you have extended periods of travel, references to long trips, etc. Now look at Star Wars, where you can go from one side of the galaxy to the other from one scene to the next, without changing clothes, traveling on a ship with no apparent beds for all the passengers, etc.
On weapon ranges, again, you have to just toss the nonsense. Which is more likely to be wrong: a couple dialogue lines, or the obviously short ranges every time you have an on-screen fight? Where is this stunning accuracy and range in Generations when a Bird of Prey is at point-blank range behind the Enterprise, the Enterprise makes an "evasive maneuver" which is a painfully slow turn to one side, and this still makes the BoP miss!
Same for firepower. Throw away some dialogue lines that are easily explained as mistakes or in-character exaggeration (you even see this with modern weapons... "those nukes will BLOW UP THE WHOLE WORLD!!!"), and you're left with firepower better than any modern weapons and a few scifi shows, but definitely on the low end for scifi.
While not quite as painfully bad as the idiots exchanging meaningless technobabble or "both universes say "laser", so they must be equally powerful" comparisons, yours are still pretty flawed.
Of course it's all irrelevant, since the Culture wins everything in the end.
|
Finfamfoom
|
Posted - 2008.08.24 00:02:00 -
[280]
Edited by: Finfamfoom on 24/08/2008 00:09:56
Space Battleship Yamoto (The Argo=US Version)
Starblazers!!
Would be an awesome addition to EVE |
|
|
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
|
Posted - 2008.08.24 09:27:00 -
[281]
Edited by: Pottsey on 24/08/2008 09:29:13
"every thing is wrong but you right?"
No I am not always right, I make mistakes like when I said I was wrong in saying Stagegate speeds don't make sense. But at least I can admit it unlike you who refuse to admit it when you're wrong. Even when it's clear you have been proven wrong you just make silly comments and role your eyes. Hyperspace is subspace and that doesn't go though the barrier either. Star Trek has stupidly powerful beings like Q, you cannot factor in things they do as they break any rules of physics they feel like. If something like Q makes a barrier startrek cannot go though it and it would be surprising if anything else could unless they match his power. You have a go at me about speculation then you speculated how hyperspace will works against Q like power. Subspace coms cannot go though it, why would a ship going though subspace be any different?
"But you just can't remove the entire premise of a series unless you want to rule all of Voyager non-canon."
Or I can say the show is cannon but someone made a big mistake that's all there is to it.
If that slow speed it right in Voyager you have to rule out all the other series as canon. Not to mention half of Voyager its self. The official speed of star trek ships shows Voyager 75year trip to be wrong. The speeds the crew talk about show the 75year trip to be wrong. The speeds the ships goes in the show the 75year trip to be wrong. The speed the ships in other series go show the 75year trip to be wrong. So someone made a big mistake.
The official speeds Star trek ships are meant to go are slower then Stargate and Starwars. But the speeds in show is often much faster than the official speeds. Which is why I have given up trying to compare speeds.
" Which is more likely to be wrong: a couple dialogue lines, or the obviously short ranges every time you have an on-screen fight?"
Neither, long range fights are boring so they show choose close range most of the time and do things in slow motion. Star Trek is meant to be fun to watch not show realistic fights based on tech they have. Fights on screen at close range at very slow speeds looks much better then fast high speed fights at long range. Startrek don't fight in a sensible way, they fight in ways that's are fun to watch. That's the same reason you have sound when clearly there shouldn't be any. Stargate is just the same often they fight in silly ways just because its more fun to watch.
"On weapon ranges, again, you have to just toss the nonsense."
So we are just going toss out things they done on a regular basis in every single series and toss out the technical specs that are meant to be official cannon? I rather put it down to my above comments on they do whats fun to watch not whats best for fighting.
____
Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation
(www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
|
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2008.08.24 10:27:00 -
[282]
Originally by: Pottsey
"But you just can't remove the entire premise of a series unless you want to rule all of Voyager non-canon."
Or I can say the show is cannon but someone made a big mistake that's all there is to it.
If that slow speed it right in Voyager you have to rule out all the other series as canon. Not to mention half of Voyager its self. The official speed of star trek ships shows Voyager 75year trip to be wrong. The speeds the crew talk about show the 75year trip to be wrong. The speeds the ships goes in the show the 75year trip to be wrong. The speed the ships in other series go show the 75year trip to be wrong. So someone made a big mistake.
Like I said, you have to look at which mistake is more reasonable to ignore. You have to ignore either:
1) A few random throwaway lines, none of which are actually consistent with each other without absurd rationalizations (yes, they just re-defined the warp scale every few years, unlike every other scale of measurement we've invented).
OR
2) The entire premise of a series, which comes up in every single episode as a major plot point. Almost every episode of the show is some variation on "OMG new miracle technology that gives us some hope of making it back home before we die of old age!!!!". How plausible do you think it is that nobody ever at any time thought to say "err, Captain, you made a mistake on this line of your calculations, we'll actually be home in a few weeks"?
And note that the various books (which is the source of some of your "official" figures) are considered non-canon by the producers, and ignored in making the offical shows/movies.
Quote:
" Which is more likely to be wrong: a couple dialogue lines, or the obviously short ranges every time you have an on-screen fight?"
Neither, long range fights are boring so they show choose close range most of the time and do things in slow motion. Star Trek is meant to be fun to watch not show realistic fights based on tech they have. Fights on screen at close range at very slow speeds looks much better then fast high speed fights at long range. Startrek don't fight in a sensible way, they fight in ways that's are fun to watch. That's the same reason you have sound when clearly there shouldn't be any. Stargate is just the same often they fight in silly ways just because its more fun to watch.
In other words "none of it actually makes any sense". Which is fine to admit, but it's a concession that the series has no consistency. If the fundamental rule is "what looks good on the screen", then none of the "official" numbers have any meaning, and bringing them up in a debate is just irrelevant.
Quote:
"On weapon ranges, again, you have to just toss the nonsense."
So we are just going toss out things they done on a regular basis in every single series and toss out the technical specs that are meant to be official cannon? I rather put it down to my above comments on they do whats fun to watch not whats best for fighting.
The "official" specs are NOT canon, according to the policy of the people who actually make Star Trek. And even without those official comments, it should be blindingly obvious that nobody is paying attention to them when they write the battles.
And please, stop and think for a second about how absurd that rationalization is. You're trying to suggest that Star Trek ships have massive range and firepower, but in a life or death battle with the fate of their entire civilization at stake, they go with "what looks pretty" instead of using that range/firepower.
The only alternative is to decide that what happens on screen isn't actually happening, in which case you're left with nothing. If a picture of two ships 500m apart doesn't mean they were actually 500m apart, why does a character saying "9999999999999 MT TORPS!!!" actually mean that's the firepower?
|
GBlair
Caldari
Knights of the elite
|
Posted - 2008.08.24 12:13:00 -
[283]
Originally by: Dave Davies
----- Pop Quiz -----
Can you tell me what's wrong with this sentence.
No question mark.
Oh and the Slave I would be good for attacking gate camps, smartbombs FTW.
Bleep bloop, I have achevables. |
madaluap
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
|
Posted - 2008.08.24 14:35:00 -
[284]
Why does nobody mention the falcon + moros?
Falcon would permajam the deadstar, while antimatter fires in 1 volley right through the entire deadstar, cause it doesnt have proper resists...
_________________________________________________ |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
|
Posted - 2008.08.24 19:31:00 -
[285]
Edited by: Pottsey on 24/08/2008 19:33:06
"I said, you have to look at which mistake is more reasonable to ignore. You have to ignore either:"
Ignoring the entire premise of a series as a development mistake is more reasonable to me. Almost every single time speed it mentioned direct or indirect the trip won't take 75years. So we have to ignore pretty much every single reference to speed. I would rather think the premise is wrong.
If the premise of 75years is right then ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9, movies and almost every mention of speed in Voyager are all wrong.
In 200+ years every single main ship has gone fast enough to do that trip in less than 75years. Saying 75years is right means Voyager is wrong in the show and all those ships form 200+ years are wrong.
As it makes no sense I am putting 75years down as oversight by the developers and the speeds are inconsistence. The rest of the ships can go half way across the galaxy in days, yet Voyager going double the distance takes 75years. The speeds are all over the place but 99% of the time they are fast enough to do the trip in less then 75years.
There is one thing that makes sense, the ship has the speed to do trip in days or years but as its not plotted the sectors before, its travailing at a vastly reduced speed over explored space. All though the first time takes 75years now it's been plotted they can do it in days or 3 years or what ever the real speed is. That explains Voyager going at high speeds and it means the speeds in ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9 & movies are all right ish. There are no refrences to travailing slower in unexplored space but it sort of makes sence.
" You're trying to suggest that Star Trek ships have massive range and firepower, but in a life or death battle with the fate of their entire civilization at stake, they go with "what looks pretty" instead of using that range/firepower."
Not the characters them self, they don't go let's do what pretty instead of using that range/firepower.
They swap between long range and massive firepower to short range silly battles that look good on screen. Its a TV show not a documentary of real life. Its meant to be fun to watch, which means they don't always do the sensible thing. Shows like Star Trek and StarGate often do stupid things as it looks better on screen even if its life and death and the fate of their entire civilization hangs in the balance.
Yes it is pointless arguing/comparing and the data we have is irrelevant. It's still fun to try and compare with what we have though.
" 1) A few random throwaway lines, none of which are actually consistent with each other without absurd rationalizations"
It's not a few though it's pretty much every single one. Yes they are inconsistent but even the lower speeds are enough to do it in days or years.
____
Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation
(www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
|
Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
|
Posted - 2008.08.24 19:57:00 -
[286]
Originally by: Pottsey
Edited by: Pottsey on 23/08/2008 10:35:37
"Anyway as I said, CANON evidence suggests no more than mid KT-range yields for photon Torpedos."
Photon Torpedos are missile-like casings with lots of warhead options.
Those low yeild torps are 20+ year old torps at low settings. Not only that but cannon evidence says torps have 16 settings per Torpedo and 10 power levels with lvl 10 violateing strategic arms limitation treaties. They dont have to use the lowest power level setting. On top of that there are lots of torpedo types. The Voyager had type 6 torpedos up to type 10 and beyond with type 6 more then 8x more powerful then than mid KT-range. Type 10 could hold warheads that destroy small planets.
Canon evidence shows up to and beyond destroying small planets and large asteroids which is far beyound mid KT-range yields. Even the old Enterprise had enough firepower to destory large asteroids.
Show it then, because on episodes such as Voyager 'Rise', or the TNG one with the derelict ship in the asteroid belt, or the TNG one where they are testing the 'upgraded' torpedo's it's asteroids around the 40m mark. And never in any episode has there been a photon torpedo destroying a 'small planet'.
--------------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
|
Posted - 2008.08.24 21:04:00 -
[287]
Edited by: Pottsey on 24/08/2008 21:03:57
The large asteroids I have already shown. As for the planets they didn't use it on a planet. They talked about the more powerful settings on the high end Photon torpedoes being able to destroy small planets.
In "The Omega Directive" Tuvok & Kim are modifying one of the ship's photon torpedoes. They comment on how the yield is now enough to destroy a small planet and Janeway's orders them to increase the yield a little more. Long time since I watched I think they used it to close a wormhole not destroy a planet.
TNG "New Ground" "Code of Honor"
Voy :"Dreadnought," "Scorpion, Part II" "In the Flesh" "Living Witness" "Human Error"
Are all good examples of how photon torpedoes have different power levels, yields and settings.
A class-10 torpedo could be armed with an even more powerful high yield warhead. (VOY: "Scorpion, Part II", "In the Flesh")
Photon torpedo is not one single weapon. It's a line of weapons. Voyager for example had type-6 and no type 5 or lower.
Saying a Photon torpedo is weak like todays weapons and has a set power is like looking at a 75mm railgun in Eve and saying all railguns in Eve are like that.
____
Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation
(www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
|
Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
|
Posted - 2008.08.24 21:19:00 -
[288]
Originally by: Pottsey
Edited by: Pottsey on 24/08/2008 21:03:57
The large asteroids I have already shown. As for the planets they didn't use it on a planet. They talked about the more powerful settings on the high end Photon torpedoes being able to destroy small planets.
In "The Omega Directive" Tuvok & Kim are modifying one of the ship's photon torpedoes. They comment on how the yield is now enough to destroy a small planet and Janeway's orders them to increase the yield a little more. Long time since I watched I think they used it to close a wormhole not destroy a planet.
TNG "New Ground" "Code of Honor"
Voy :"Dreadnought," "Scorpion, Part II" "In the Flesh" "Living Witness" "Human Error"
Are all good examples of how photon torpedoes have different power levels, yields and settings.
A class-10 torpedo could be armed with an even more powerful high yield warhead. (VOY: "Scorpion, Part II", "In the Flesh")
Photon torpedo is not one single weapon. It's a line of weapons. Voyager for example had type-6 and no type 5 or lower.
Saying a Photon torpedo is weak like todays weapons and has a set power is like looking at a 75mm railgun in Eve and saying all railguns in Eve are like that.
no... Kim makes an off the cuff remark along the lines of "what do you want to do blow up a small planet?" - Big difference
Great so they have variable yeilds but I say again, the largest asteroid we've seen them shooting at (and failing to vaporise) was in VOY: Rise. There's no reason that wasn't 'maximum' yield given it was about to stike a populated planet...
--------------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
|
Posted - 2008.08.24 22:25:00 -
[289]
It doesn't matter if Voyager failed to blow up an asteroid they didnt use the powerful torps as even the high end photon torpedoes are the low end of torpedo weapons. Other ships have blown up asteroids. Guess I was wrong on a blow up a small planet comment. Going have to rematch it.
____
Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation
(www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
|
Jack Airron
Gallente
Universal Mining Inc
Forged Dominion
|
Posted - 2008.08.25 00:28:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Pottsey
It doesn't matter if Voyager failed to blow up an asteroid they didnt use the powerful torps as even the high end photon torpedoes are the low end of torpedo weapons. Other ships have blown up asteroids. Guess I was wrong on a blow up a small planet comment. Going have to rematch it.
so in first contact why did they not just one shot the Borg cube?
|
|
|
Karl Luckner
|
Posted - 2008.08.25 00:41:00 -
[291]
Star Trek ships are superior for one simple reason: they don't need stargates or someone else with a cyno.
|
Hana Sumitomo
|
Posted - 2008.08.25 06:33:00 -
[292]
As it has been stated above, Star Trek changes its technolgy and rules depending on plot. For every time you find someone saying, or writing specifications, you will find twenty other times and places where someone has put something different.
Any argument founded on this ephemeral cannon is simply meaningless as it is just too inconsistant. So much of the technobable in Star Trek is just made up on the spot by the actors anyway. All the script would say was <Tech> in place of any technologial line, and someone would just fill it in on set with what sounded good at the time.
Trying to base actual logical arguments on such a thing, is totaly insane. Especialy when the answer to ANY problem in the universe of Star Trek is a new magical technolgy.
|
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
|
Posted - 2008.08.25 10:20:00 -
[293]
"so in first contact why did they not just one shot the Borg cube?"
The Borg are not an undefended asteroid without shields.
They did one shot Borg cubes with a new weapon systems 5 years after First Contact. But during First Contact they didn't have that much firepower.
The Borg have super strong shields and amour which can take on a Federations defence force at a time without a problem. At least they could until the Federation upgraded their weapons.
____
Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation
(www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
|
Creed611
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.08.25 11:29:00 -
[294]
Originally by: Kethry Avenger
For example I would expect the Mega to have its 7 large blasters, then like a couple curise launchers, 14 med guns and 20 something small guns, and some fighters/drones. But I can see for balance reasons why it isn't so.
LMAO 
|
Thirzarr
|
Posted - 2008.08.25 12:27:00 -
[295]
Any Scifi scenario has its scene where a lot of really really SUPERstupid bad guys come though a hole in the corridor, or a canyon of 50 meters width or some shit like that. And then you have the good guys who do NOT manage to fend them off. Its like something that wouldn't even cause a machinegunner nowadays to break into sweat.
Sci fi has one flaw: It ignores what is already possible today:
* Full automatic weaponry with ranges from handguns to Gatling guns.
* Explosive charges
* Fire and Forget Missiles that stick to their targets.
* Controled long range missiles.
* Ranges that are further than you can see.
* Wearable Computing.
* Automatic Defense Systems.
* Body armor.
* shock-weapons.
* ABC weapons.
...
So many things that seem to just not go well with "bunch of bad guys coming down a corridor". I wonder how often kirk, picard, archer, ... and their crews would have been better off with a set of MP5 instead of their crappy phase pistols.
MP5
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/HK_MP5
Missiles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-54_Phoenix
184km operational range guided air to air missile.
Defensive Guns:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIWS
Artillery:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Nuclear_artillery_test_Grable_Event_-_Part_of_Operation_Upshot-Knothole.jpg
|
Soltueur
Gallente
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2008.08.25 13:59:00 -
[296]
The borg would win ofc. They would just adapt their shields duh!!!
----------------------------------------
"It is only by fate
that any life ends,
and only by chance
that it is yours...
not mine"
New vid |
Salvar Ar'adim
State Property
|
Posted - 2008.08.25 19:50:00 -
[297]
Edited by: Salvar Ar''adim on 25/08/2008 19:50:23
Originally by: Thirzarr
Any Scifi scenario has its scene where a lot of really really SUPERstupid bad guys come though a hole in the corridor, or a canyon of 50 meters width or some shit like that. And then you have the good guys who do NOT manage to fend them off. Its like something that wouldn't even cause a machinegunner nowadays to break into sweat.
Sci fi has one flaw: It ignores what is already possible today:
* Full automatic weaponry with ranges from handguns to Gatling guns.
* Explosive charges
* Fire and Forget Missiles that stick to their targets.
* Controled long range missiles.
* Ranges that are further than you can see.
* Wearable Computing.
* Automatic Defense Systems.
* Body armor.
* shock-weapons.
* ABC weapons.
...
So many things that seem to just not go well with "bunch of bad guys coming down a corridor". I wonder how often kirk, picard, archer, ... and their crews would have been better off with a set of MP5 instead of their crappy phase pistols.
MP5
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/HK_MP5
Missiles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-54_Phoenix
184km operational range guided air to air missile.
Defensive Guns:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIWS
Artillery:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Nuclear_artillery_test_Grable_Event_-_Part_of_Operation_Upshot-Knothole.jpg
As Jack O'neil and Samantha Carter have proved on many occasions; a ray-gun is no alternative to a P90, which if SG1 is to believed is the absolute most badass infantry weapon in the universe....
______
Salvar Ar'Adim
[RLLUP]State Property
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Get Chribba to publically denounce Veldspar, then we can start discussing winning EVE...
|
Jack Airron
Gallente
Universal Mining Inc
Forged Dominion
|
Posted - 2008.08.25 23:13:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Pottsey
"so in first contact why did they not just one shot the Borg cube?"
The Borg are not an undefended asteroid without shields.
They did one shot Borg cubes with a new weapon systems 5 years after First Contact. But during First Contact they didn't have that much firepower.
The Borg have super strong shields and amour which can take on a Federations defence force at a time without a problem. At least they could until the Federation upgraded their weapons.
so Borg armor is as strong as a entire planet....good to know
blarg |
Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
Babylon Project
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 15:28:00 -
[299]
Originally by: Salvar Ar'adim
Edited by: Salvar Ar''adim on 25/08/2008 19:50:23
Originally by: Thirzarr
Any Scifi scenario has its scene where a lot of really really SUPERstupid bad guys come though a hole in the corridor, or a canyon of 50 meters width or some shit like that. And then you have the good guys who do NOT manage to fend them off. Its like something that wouldn't even cause a machinegunner nowadays to break into sweat.
Sci fi has one flaw: It ignores what is already possible today:
* Full automatic weaponry with ranges from handguns to Gatling guns.
* Explosive charges
* Fire and Forget Missiles that stick to their targets.
* Controled long range missiles.
* Ranges that are further than you can see.
* Wearable Computing.
* Automatic Defense Systems.
* Body armor.
* shock-weapons.
* ABC weapons.
...
So many things that seem to just not go well with "bunch of bad guys coming down a corridor". I wonder how often kirk, picard, archer, ... and their crews would have been better off with a set of MP5 instead of their crappy phase pistols.
MP5
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/HK_MP5
Missiles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-54_Phoenix
184km operational range guided air to air missile.
Defensive Guns:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIWS
Artillery:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Nuclear_artillery_test_Grable_Event_-_Part_of_Operation_Upshot-Knothole.jpg
As Jack O'neil and Samantha Carter have proved on many occasions; a ray-gun is no alternative to a P90, which if SG1 is to believed is the absolute most badass infantry weapon in the universe....
Then again... if I had to chose between going up against 'the Borg' or 'MacGuyver, in space', I'd pick the borg too..
All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me..
Drone guide.. |
Gavin Darklighter
THE FINAL STAND
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 04:55:00 -
[300]
Any good ship from Schlock Mercenary would dominate. They generate power through neutronium annihilation, or "annie" plants that convert mass directly into usable energy. The biggest ships in Schlock mount 10,000m primary annie plants. If you consider the density of neutronium, thats a pretty big energy reserve. The most direct application of this energy is in projecting gravity to shield the craft, propel it, and attack other ships. A larger ship can simply use its "gravitics" to compress a smaller ship into neutronium and feed its mass into the reactor to be used as fuel. A ship lacking proper shielding or sufficient energy to power the shields is helpless to the "gravity gun".
Ships in Schlock typically move at around .6 the speed of light. Most ships can reach speeds around .8c, but past that your reactor no longer has enough mass to convert to energy to bring you back to a stop. Ships move between planets either by traditional "worm-gates" or, more recently, through a plot-device called the teraport that can transport you instantly across the galaxy, provided there are not teraport disruption systems active at either the starting point or the destination.
Warships are typically flown by AIs with thinking power that is hard to comprehend in human terms. A good AI in Schlock could put as much thought into a tactical situation in a split second than you could get from a room full of the best human tacticians in hundreds or even thousands of years.
Ships are armed not only with the previously mentioned gravy-guns but also every type of homing, projectile, and beam weapon imaginable. Missiles seem to be the most dangerous as their propulsion and payload is provided by small "annie-plants", making them capable of attacking at ~.7c and carrying a yeild equivilent to, say, a hundred kg of mass converted directly into energy in the form of "bang". Any type of projectile mounting an annie plant and a gravitic drive is also doubly dangerous due to its ability to breach shields before exploding. Projectiles of this type are called "breacher" rounds or missiles. Missiles can also mount teraport drives of their own making them able to instantly transport themselves anywhere that is not being interdicted. Due to these capabilities combat usually revolves around using your own various countermeasures and point defenses to prevent any warheads from reaching your ship. Only AIs are capable of competent combat due to the resulting complexity.
signature picture exceeds the size limit.~WeatherMan |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 [10] 11 .. 11 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |