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Alua Oresson
Demon-War-Lords BLACK-MARK
80
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Posted - 2012.03.26 18:16:00 -
[211] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Professor Alphane wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Professor Alphane wrote:Not quite sure why your convinced I've got a mighty sword The youtube videos you posted last night. You seem to have me msitaken in 2 ways, identity and the imprssion you have I give a **** what you think You respond to every post I make and you're obsessed with Mittens. You give a ****.
A strange game, the only winning move is not to play. |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
94
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Posted - 2012.03.26 18:19:00 -
[212] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote: Luckily I know I'm right, because you're always on the wrong side of getting up in arms about things not being fair and angry posting about it.
As far as I can see there are a lot more people than me who feel this was way out of line.
If your side is the right one then humanity lost.
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
55
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Posted - 2012.03.26 18:24:00 -
[213] - Quote
No time to read the whole thread.
If this report: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/03/26/ccp-investigates-player-panel-that-encouraged-cyber-bullying/ is in any means accurate description of what Mittens said, this is a rather serious issue.
Shooting people in the game in order to try and "win" by forcing them out of the game is one thing. Gloating on local, yea, fine.
But this is a person in position of trust using that position and the publicity it brings to encourage others to harass a specific other player. The victim has no way to reach a similar audience and plead his case. Moreover, the perpetrator already knows the target is depressed and suicidal, and still encourages this bullying. In most civilized countries that would probably count as a crime. In a civilized game, that should definitely count as an argument for the developers to ban him - in the very least to ban him from such positions of trust.
As much as I hate forum-whines of the "wah-wah I will quit unless you do what I like"... I for one take this seriously enough that if Mittens gets to continue in the CSM, I have to seriously consider whether I can morally justify giving CCP my money. I do not wish to in any shape or form to support this kind of malicious crap.
And no, I don't give an effing damn if Mitttens was drunk or sober at the time. An abusive drunk is still abusive, and "alcohol made me do it" is no excuse for bullying or violence. |
Glarealot
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
22
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Posted - 2012.03.26 18:29:00 -
[214] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:Ban Bindy wrote:See the thread Fanfest Alliance Panel Disgusting.
See in particular post #68, in which someone's in game eve mail is posted to the forums.
If this is what these people actually did and said at the panel, this is so totally disgusting and sadistic that it can't be accepted.
I don't care about what happens in the game, since I can't do anything about it.
Holding someone up to PUBLIC ridicule in real life and following it up by encouraging people to continue this behavior on the forums, by posting the guy's eve mail to the forums, is not acceptable behavior by a human being.
You should read the thread if you want background. The quick version is that this person was apparently very rich in the tears that these plays love so much. He is referred to as depressed and suicidal. If the thread is accurate, our CSM chair encouraged people to get in touch with this guy and harass him further and gave out his name at the panel. Someone followed this up by posting one of the guy's eve mails to the forums.
These are major eve players actually encouraging people to cause a play psychological harm, and in a PUBLIC context outside the game. This cannot be accepted. deal with it~
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2240
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Posted - 2012.03.26 18:33:00 -
[215] - Quote
Killer Gandry wrote:[quote=Khanh'rhh] As far as I can see there are a lot more people than me who feel this was way out of line.
There's maybe half a dozen people who are mad (all their sockpuppets don't count). They were mad before fanfest too.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Tablaren
Knights of Kador
0
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Posted - 2012.03.26 18:40:00 -
[216] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:No time to read the whole thread. If this report: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/03/26/ccp-investigates-player-panel-that-encouraged-cyber-bullying/ is in any means accurate description of what Mittens said, this is a rather serious issue. Shooting people in the game in order to try and "win" by forcing them out of the game is one thing. Gloating on local, yea, fine. But this is a person in position of trust using that position and the publicity it brings to encourage others to harass a specific other player. The victim has no way to reach a similar audience and plead his case; even if he tried the influence that the position brings to the perpetrator would prevent him being heard on an equal basis. Moreover, the perpetrator already knows the target is depressed and suicidal, and still encourages this bullying. In most civilized countries that would probably count as a crime. In a civilized game, that should definitely count as an argument for the developers to ban him - in the very least to ban him from such positions of trust. As much as I hate forum-whines of the "wah-wah I will quit unless you do what I like"... I for one take this seriously enough that if Mittens gets to continue in the CSM, I have to seriously consider whether I can morally justify giving CCP my money. I do not wish to in any shape or form to support this kind of malicious crap. And no, I don't give an effing damn if Mitttens was drunk or sober at the time. An abusive drunk is still abusive, and "alcohol made me do it" is no excuse for bullying or violence.
While usually I think that harassment is part of the game, at that point like Elsebeth states, this is no longer a case of harassment but actual criminal actions. Problem being nobody wants to take a stand and actually enforce anything online.
I imagine CCP won't do anything, they have the "We will investigate this" down pat. Even if at this point I can't believe he'd be allowed to keep his CSM post.
The CSM is by definition a player-base representation in order to bring forth the communities requests and feelings to CCP. It is not a position which is meant to give members a greather means to harass the playerbase they are supposed to be representing. |
Shade Severii
Satan's Escorts MIDGET CHUCKERS
6
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Posted - 2012.03.26 18:40:00 -
[217] - Quote
1) **** all you white knights 2) I would never harass people in game, out of game, in real life etc. or condone it....its just not something that i consider fun 3) CCP should take whatever action they see fit and not listen to these idiots. BUT whatever action they take they need to be consistent with it and NOT just kick Mittens and just go back to how things were. I know at least 5 people who should be banned for being assholes in game IF they kick Mittens. 4) I understand that EVE is more then just a game to some people (was once for me) but its a real slippery slope banning people for SAYING things as in EVE i see people saying horrible things and they are never banned. |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
94
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Posted - 2012.03.26 18:50:00 -
[218] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote: There's maybe half a dozen people who are mad (all their sockpuppets don't count). They were mad before fanfest too.
Calling someone a sockpuppet while handing a virtual BJ to someone else hardly gives your posting any value.
Shade Severii wrote:1) **** all you white knights 2) I would never harass people in game, out of game, in real life etc. or condone it....its just not something that i consider fun 3) CCP should take whatever action they see fit and not listen to these idiots. BUT whatever action they take they need to be consistent with it and NOT just kick Mittens and just go back to how things were. I know at least 5 people who should be banned for being assholes in game IF they kick Mittens. 4) I understand that EVE is more then just a game to some people (was once for me) but its a real slippery slope banning people for SAYING things as in EVE i see people saying horrible things and they are never banned.
We aren't at it because Mittens plays an ******* in the game. Heck that's his good right. But if you can't see the difference between playing an online bastard and the crap he spouted at the Fanfest then I hardly see any point of even trying to explain the difference to you. |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
58
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Posted - 2012.03.26 18:54:00 -
[219] - Quote
Quote:3) CCP should take whatever action they see fit and not listen to these idiots. BUT whatever action they take they need to be consistent with it and NOT just kick Mittens and just go back to how things were. I know at least 5 people who should be banned for being assholes in game IF they kick Mittens. Are any of those people chairmen of the CSM?
Yep.
And that does change things.
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XavierVE
Concordiat Concordiat Alliance
54
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Posted - 2012.03.26 19:03:00 -
[220] - Quote
I made a thread on the forums asking for people to simply "boo" CCP Soundwave after that Fearless debacle.
Devs and GM's wigged out on me for calling for harassment against him, got moderated, threatened with a ban.
Guess I should have asked people to harass him until he committed suicide, that sort of thing is okay by CCP standards. |
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
58
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Posted - 2012.03.26 19:06:00 -
[221] - Quote
I'd wait until CCP makes the report after their investigation (or after several weeks have gone by so you can assume they are delaying it without informing us why) before assuming that this is ok by their standards.
After all, Mittens too, being a human, deserves that the case be thought about before decision is reached. Though personally I would suspend him from CSM until there is a decision in any case. |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
94
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Posted - 2012.03.26 19:08:00 -
[222] - Quote
XavierVE wrote:I made a thread on the forums asking for people to simply "boo" CCP Soundwave after that Fearless debacle.
Devs and GM's wigged out on me for calling for harassment against him, got moderated, threatened with a ban.
Guess I should have asked people to harass him until he committed suicide, that sort of thing is okay by CCP standards.
Calling out for harassement in any form is unacceptable. Even per the rules CCP stated themselves.
Be confident they are looking at damagecontrol and how to save Mittens without losing too much face. If you really want to be effective into getting CCP's unbiased attention to this do as Kestrel did. Get media on it. The more attention the less leeway CCP can give in this case. If CCP wants to be taken serious then they have no other option than remove Mittens from the CSM minimal.
Or do rules have more bargaining room for the one than the other?
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Blinking Duck
The Kurian Order
3
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Posted - 2012.03.26 19:11:00 -
[223] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Killer Gandry wrote: As far as I can see there are a lot more people than me who feel this was way out of line.
There's maybe half a dozen people who are mad (all their sockpuppets don't count). They were mad before fanfest too.
Damn....the fear is strong with this one. |
Twulf
The Konvergent League Sanctuary Pact
10
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Posted - 2012.03.26 19:11:00 -
[224] - Quote
Christopher Merchentson wrote:If the harassment did continue and the guy ended up killing himself CCP can be held liable if it were a American company. Not sure about the fact that it's a foreign company.
Criminally not much but they could ban products from the company in the USA. |
RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
178
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Posted - 2012.03.26 19:32:00 -
[225] - Quote
This is a big deal.
the goons still think its a game.
If CCP does not act on this the media will not let it go.
To many cases of cyber bullying going to far make sure that CCP cannot ignore this. |
Eian
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2012.03.26 19:35:00 -
[226] - Quote
This whole drunken thing was a disservice to EVE the game and the community. I kinda known as being a hard core mother. In fact at bit over board at times but even I know when and where that kind of **** is appropriate. No matter what happened it's CCP's fault for allowing this kind of behavior to happen in the first place. |
Eian
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2012.03.26 19:42:00 -
[227] - Quote
Whatayoke wrote:Christopher Merchentson wrote: American
foreign company you americans, so funny.
He just lives here. He's not actually part of us. In fact we would like to offer him to the first taker.
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Kaivar Lancer
General Exports
124
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Posted - 2012.03.26 19:47:00 -
[228] - Quote
Well, this scandal is breaking out on all major gaming websites.
CCP has a major PR disaster on its hands. Every normal gamer will steer clear of EVE. |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
59
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Posted - 2012.03.26 19:50:00 -
[229] - Quote
Eian wrote:This whole drunken thing was a disservice to EVE the game and the community. In RL and in game I'm kinda known as being a hard core mother. I was watching this live on stream and thought it was disgraceful behavior. No matter what happened it's CCP's fault for allowing this kind of behavior to happen in the first place. Not really. While the CCP moderator present (I gather) definitely should have stopped this, and while I also feel CCP could use a little heavier hand in community policing in general, the only person to blame for what happened is The Mittani himself. CCP should be judged according to how they will react to what happened, not by it having happened. |
Khanh'rhh
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
921
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Posted - 2012.03.26 20:40:00 -
[230] - Quote
If anyone is actually interested in the person in question, instead of bashing Mittens, he is alive and well and still playing the game.
Of course, none of you actually care about that.
Is there any space on the bandwagon? My NPC corp Jita price checker alt has some badpoasting to do. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
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Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
199
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Posted - 2012.03.26 20:57:00 -
[231] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:This is a big deal.
the goons still think its a game.
If CCP does not act on this the media will not let it go.
To many cases of cyber bullying going to far make sure that CCP cannot ignore this.
This is the only way that anything will happen regarding this. The media will only put on enough pressure if the outraged keep the ball rolling....kind of a reverse goonswarm propaganda machine thing. Beating them at their own game might be fun...and it would certainly be very EvE. |
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
580
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 21:02:00 -
[232] - Quote
EVE as a game encourages anti-social behavior. This is part of the game and expected by all participants. But we want anti-social behavior in the game, and not in the real world. Fan Fest is a great example of this: Enemies meet and drink together, because in the end, we are all players of the same game. This does mean, though, that there has to be a line as to what is not acceptable anymore. A line where the accepted and expected anti-social in-game behavior ends and where unacceptable behavior begins.
I do hope that CCP does a thorough investigation, and either decide that this line was not crossed here - and present an explanation as to why that line was not crossed here - or take the correct consequence and terminate the customer / service provider relationship with the player of "the mittani".
Oh, also:
The Mittani wrote:deal with it~ This thread is doing just that. :-) |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
603
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Posted - 2012.03.26 21:03:00 -
[233] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote: and gave out his name at the panel.
Get a grip, they gave out the name of a video game character, not an actual humans name.
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Kridak
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.03.26 21:25:00 -
[234] - Quote
I rarely post on forums but this is just silly. Sure e-bullying is illegal and some cases where extreme bullying have led to suicide there have been guilty verdicts, but there's also been plenty of acquittals.
If you look this guy up in game there's a link that eventually leads to his blog, he seems to be doing just fine. You also have to read a bit into the e-mail that was presented in the Alliance panel, there's no mention of actual depression or suicide. There are some mention of it in a few blog posts on this e-bullied persons blog.
On this blog he also proclaims he drove his wife to poison herself. His ex-wife left him btw, and that was after going blind and def, how mean do you have to be that your wife who's recently lost two very important senses has the courage to leave.
I am for free-speech, which in my view includes bullying. Sadly somewhere the laws started changing and now lots of countries have made ideas and opinions illegal. You can be a Anti-semite (other word got censored), but you can't dislike a person? Hopefully CCP has the guts to form a opinion on this that's not just main--stream PC.
Actions have consequences, some actions should be illegal.
Ideas have consequences, should ideas be illegal? Who decides what ideas are illegal? In Iran (and many other countries) it's illegal to apostate. In the US it's illegal to call someone names, but only really if they kill themselves, otherwise usually you're acquitted. It's hypocritical to make one idea illegal just because you don't agree with it. I hate "1940's German people" and love gay people, in Iran that's illegal, in Sweden that's just being normal. I hate door-salesmen, literally despise them, especially if it's a religion they're selling, I feel physically unclean if I accidentally open the door for them, under no circumstances should they ever be outlawed and in return I can yell all I want at them before I slam the door in their face. |
Jeremy X
Audub0n Ballroom
1
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Posted - 2012.03.26 21:43:00 -
[235] - Quote
OK the purpose of the CSM is to represent the player base of EVE.
And the thing is that some of that player base is pretty base. Low empathy smack talking harrasing stalker scumbags of dubious humanity need representation too. And clearly Mittens is doing a great job of representing these folks.
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Khanh'rhh
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
921
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Posted - 2012.03.26 21:45:00 -
[236] - Quote
So, someone has actually spoken to the guy, and he doesn't give a ****.
http://paste.pocoo.org/show/571748/
Quote:[21:30:50] The Wis > Ok.. Well that is nice. Hmm.. wait.. If i do kill my self they might arrest him and prosicute him since he is in the US.. That would really be bad for him. [21:31:01] The Wis > Just kidding of course but a thought. [21:31:20] The Wis > Fly safe. I have real life stuff to do now - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Khanh'rhh
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
921
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Posted - 2012.03.26 21:47:00 -
[237] - Quote
So, if the guy who is being "driven to suicide by cyberbullying" doesn't give two *****, can all you blowhards now go and biomass?
kthnx - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
206
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Posted - 2012.03.26 22:26:00 -
[238] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:Eian wrote:This whole drunken thing was a disservice to EVE the game and the community. In RL and in game I'm kinda known as being a hard core mother. I was watching this live on stream and thought it was disgraceful behavior. No matter what happened it's CCP's fault for allowing this kind of behavior to happen in the first place. Not really. While the CCP moderator present (I gather) definitely should have stopped this, and while I also feel CCP could use a little heavier hand in community policing in general, the only person to blame for what happened is The Mittani himself. CCP should be judged according to how they will react to what happened, not by it having happened. I have to disagree to an extent. People like Mr. Gianturco are not interested in being held accountable for anything. His attitude proves this and there should be no doubt. They simply do not comprehend and are not interested in understanding where social and ettiquette boundaries are. You'd be better off talking to a chair or a rock. You have to expect that there will be a few human beings that are going to do whatever they have to for some attention and to prove they are the "baddest a-hole" in the world. And if the threat were realized it would be a joke to this clown and his followers.
CCP, on the other hand, NEEDS to expect and prepare for this. And they didn't. Not only that, but even after Mr. Gianturco's invitation to his audience to provoke his victim's suicide nothing was done to ammend the situation. I feel like it's been only after the reaction of its playerbase that some action has been taken. And even worse yet, he continues to be a CCP and community liason; a representative of this community. |
Forest Hill
WDGAS Holding MPA
4
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Posted - 2012.03.26 22:59:00 -
[239] - Quote
Wasn't a famous player permabanned last year, during the 'summer of rage', after wishing a dev would 'die in a fire'? Even while many regarded that as a clear in game reference, CCP didn't interpret it as such, at that time. It'll be interesting to see what they do with this one. |
RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
205
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Posted - 2012.03.27 00:54:00 -
[240] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:So, if the guy who is being "driven to suicide by cyberbullying" doesn't give two *****, can all you blowhards now go and biomass?
kthnx
Its not about that one guy its about the next guy or the next ten guys or gals. Who may not be able to get over it.
Its a matter of precedent. |
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