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Kenwyn Talbot	Posted - 2008.09.14 23:30:00 - [1] I think I made a bad assumption thinking that people in this game generally attack for a reason >< Basically, a dumb T1 mission forced me to fly through low sec space. Stupidly, I figured that since I wasn't carrying anything of value (like 300 antimatter charges, that's it) I'd probably get left alone. I just had to quickly jump through two systems and I'd be back in high sec. Of course, on the other side of the jump gate there were about 10 people waiting for me, warp drive scrambled and popped in seconds with no warning or demands. Then they pod killed me, again with no warning or demands. Given what I was carrying, I'm betting these folks could have made more ISK in the time it took doing just about anything else -- so clearly this was just a pure grief thing, not for any kind of benefit or profit. I'll be fine -- after all, I lost maybe a few million credits... although the time it takes to go refitting is annoying. But of course, I'm trying to learn out of this experience and I'm posting here mainly to check to see if the message I am taking away from this is accurate. Basically, it seems to me that one should essentially never go outside of high sec until one is very, very powerful or traveling in a fleet. Seems like traveling outside of high sec is just not worth the risk. For me it's not even an issue of "carebear" vs. "hardcore" or whatever. I want to do pvp eventually, but as it is it seems like you can make plenty of cash in high sec and for the expected value to favor low sec the profit would have to be like twenty times higher given the risk you run of just jumping into the system... and I seriously doubt that the numbers are slanted that way. Am I right?
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2008.09.14 23:35:00 - [2] Edited by: fuxinos on 14/09/2008 23:35:09 you will survive. maybe grow stronger. you should not have been podkilled in lowsec, but you wasnt prepared i guess (otherwise, its seldom that you actually lose your pod/life). and ppl dont know what you carry around unless they fit cargo scanner. but its much easier to just blast the ship in pieces and check in killmail if anything worthwhile is there :P
Reza Pluss Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.09.14 23:39:00 - [3] Most folks won't stop to think; they're camping to get as many killmails as possible, and you're just an incremented integer they use to measure their e-peens. They're not sitting at home thinking "how epic was that!?!?", they are just reloading their killboard to make sure they were on the killmail...
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.09.14 23:39:00 - [4] Reminds me of my first step into lowsec: pop WTF? squish Avoided lowsec until I knew what I was doing and how to do it. -------- Ideas for: Mining
Kenwyn Talbot	Posted - 2008.09.14 23:50:00 - [5] Edited by: Kenwyn Talbot on 14/09/2008 23:51:21 Thanks all, yeah it's really not that big of a deal. I can make the few million credits back in a couple of missions (yay salvaging). Some of you seem to be suggesting that one can get out of a situation like that. I'm curious how -- it was like 8 or 10 on 1 and they were scrambling my warp drive long before it had even spooled up. I suppose if I had something that would negate the warp scrambler I MIGHT have escaped. I suppose if there is such a thing (I imagine there is, and I imagine I'll have to waste time training to use it), then I'll have to equip it for runs through lowsec. Are there other things I should have been doing differently? I'd love to get some specific advice. FWIW, it was The Black Rabbits [GURIS] / The Guristas Associates [TAS] that killed me. Hopefully it's legal to post that here, if not I'll remove it. EDIT: I imagine actually being in a player corp might help matters... something I'll have to force myself to do I guess. I usually like to solo until I actually know what I am doing so that I can go ahead and join a good clan/guild/corp/whatever instead of starting in some noob corp... especially since you can't escape your employment history in this game!
Suboran Gallente Victory Not Vengeance SOLAR WING	Posted - 2008.09.14 23:56:00 - [6] Pirates cant see whats in your cargo unless they use a cargo scanner, after all it is often that a frigate maybe carrying something like a blueprint of valuables. It wasnt worth their time to ransom you or make demands. dont take it personaly they are there to kill people and make money.
Rejit Arjs	Posted - 2008.09.14 23:57:00 - [7] Originally by: Kenwyn Talbot I suppose if I had something that would negate the warp scrambler I MIGHT have escaped. I suppose if there is such a thing (I imagine there is, and I imagine I'll have to waste time training to use it), then I'll have to equip it for runs through lowsec. Its called Warp Core Stabilizer and negates a limited number of scramblers.
Carnun Blodeuwedd	Posted - 2008.09.15 00:24:00 - [8] Yep, most people kill for sh*ts n' giggles though that's not entirely contrary to having a reason. You don't need to be rich but you do need to be flying something you can afford to lose. That is, you should still have a means to make money and preferably the money to make whatever you were flying again. I think this is probably the minimum to fly happily in lowsec. Not going out into lowsec until you're very rich or in a fleet? Hell no... as long as you don't mind losing what you're flying. It is true though that you'll struggle to take down much alone in a T1 frig so a gang always helps, get a pvping corp and fly tackle, its 1) fun, 2) cheap and 3) needed. Apart from that you can use local and intel channels to find where the camps are though you'll learn where the dangerous systems are, usually where high-sec meets low-sec.
Easley Thames The Maverick Navy Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.09.15 00:31:00 - [9] Getting you ship out depends what you are in and how you are fitted. It also depends on their ships, particularly if they have a dictor and you're in null sec. The best thing is always to have a scout and check the map statistics if moving something valueable. However, there are some basic tactics that can make camps much less of a threat How to get your SHIP out: 1) If you're not in a bubble and your ship can get up to speed quickly then look for something in front of you to warp to. If you don't have to align much a frigate is hard to catch. 2) If you have a MWD hold cloak until the session change timer ends, set destination for the previous system then hit autopilot + MWD. You will reapproach in a few seconds and jump on contact. Even if locked and webbed while approaching you will often make it back on inertia. 3) If you have a cloak hit your MWD and align away from the gate then immediately cloak. You will be hard to decloak as you will have moved from the original spot the campers will approach. This is not foolproof, but if you don't get decloaked you can slowboat your way far off of the camp and then warp. 4) In some cases burning off the gate is worth doing if you feel you will get locked before you can warp but can out-run everything in the camp. However, this gives the campers time to get a lock. You will always want to burn off aligned to something so you can warp as soon as you are out of point range / the bubble. Burning off is most direct way to run a camp, and is significantly more dangerous in 0.0 where lighter ships can engage you on gates safely. Bubbles also make burning off more dangerous as the campers have more time to lock you, but also necessitate doing so if you want to get through without a cloak. How to get your POD out: Mash the "Warp to" button with an object selected on your overview. You will nearly always get away unless you are in a bubble, in which case your only hope is to try to fly your pod to the closest edge and warp.
Kenwyn Talbot	Posted - 2008.09.15 00:48:00 - [10] Thanks for the advice -- not having a MWD hurt me, although even if I had one I probably would have panicked anyway given my lack of experience. I think the big takeaway point there is that alignment makes a big difference, especially when flying something reasonably large. Instead of trying to jump to the next gate I should have just jumped to whatever I was already facing. I got scrambled as my ship was turning. In terms of getting away in my pod, I suppose I might have been able to warp away quickly enough -- but they actually scrambled my pod too, almost immediately. After that it went down in about two seconds.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.09.15 00:54:00 - [11] Originally by: Kenwyn Talbot I think I made a bad assumption thinking that people in this game generally attack for a reason >< Incredibly bad assumption, but you make a lot of those when you're new. Originally by: Kenwyn Talbot grief No. Originally by: Kenwyn Talbot until one is very, very powerful No amount of power can counter numbers. Originally by: Kenwyn Talbot but as it is it seems like you can make plenty of cash in high sec and for the expected value to favor low sec the profit would have to be like twenty times higher given the risk you run of just jumping into the system... and I seriously doubt that the numbers are slanted that way. Am I right? The stealthwhinedetector spiked to 500 milliwhines on this part. - DesuSigs
Christari Zuborov Amarr Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.09.15 00:55:00 - [12] Take comfort in knowing there's a decent security hit of podding someone in low-sec. Also, when your ship blows up and your pod comes out - warp out. A pod doesn't have any alignment and thus warps instantly. The only way someone can hold you down in a pod is by scrambling/bubbling.
Kenwyn Talbot	Posted - 2008.09.15 01:48:00 - [13] Originally by: Crumplecorn The stealthwhinedetector spiked to 500 milliwhines on this part. If you say so. I've seen quite a few people complaining on this board and elsewhere that you can make so much ISK in high sec that there is fairly little reason to go into lowsec. I'm just pointing out how my experience backs that up.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.09.15 01:51:00 - [14] Originally by: Kenwyn Talbot Originally by: Crumplecorn The stealthwhinedetector spiked to 500 milliwhines on this part. If you say so. I've seen quite a few people complaining on this board and elsewhere that you can make so much ISK in high sec that there is fairly little reason to go into lowsec. I'm just pointing out how my experience backs that up. And they are right. And you probably are a new player who has seen the same problem. But you might be an alt stealthwhining. /tinfoil hat - DesuSigs
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Trinity Council	Posted - 2008.09.15 01:56:00 - [15] Originally by: Kenwyn Talbot I think I made a bad assumption thinking that people in this game generally attack for a reason >< Basically, a dumb T1 mission forced me to fly through low sec space. Stupidly, I figured that since I wasn't carrying anything of value (like 300 antimatter charges, that's it) I'd probably get left alone. I just had to quickly jump through two systems and I'd be back in high sec. Of course, on the other side of the jump gate there were about 10 people waiting for me, warp drive scrambled and popped in seconds with no warning or demands. Then they pod killed me, again with no warning or demands. Given what I was carrying, I'm betting these folks could have made more ISK in the time it took doing just about anything else -- so clearly this was just a pure grief thing, not for any kind of benefit or profit. I'll be fine -- after all, I lost maybe a few million credits... although the time it takes to go refitting is annoying. But of course, I'm trying to learn out of this experience and I'm posting here mainly to check to see if the message I am taking away from this is accurate. Basically, it seems to me that one should essentially never go outside of high sec until one is very, very powerful or traveling in a fleet. Seems like traveling outside of high sec is just not worth the risk. For me it's not even an issue of "carebear" vs. "hardcore" or whatever. I want to do pvp eventually, but as it is it seems like you can make plenty of cash in high sec and for the expected value to favor low sec the profit would have to be like twenty times higher given the risk you run of just jumping into the system... and I seriously doubt that the numbers are slanted that way. Am I right? actually m8, its not a griefing thing, they werent targetting YOU specifically, it was a gatecamp, they killed the next 5 people that jumped through just the same, this quite frequently happens at gatecamps, they dont stop to ransom, just lock and f1-f8, its not a GRIEFING thing, so please stop calling it that and as already said, they would need a cargo scanner to see what you had, and to do that would give you time to run away, most gate camps just kill probably 10-15 people, loot the wrecks, MAYBE salvage, then leave and setup another camp somewhere else Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 "*Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer*"
Kessiaan Minmatar Army of One	Posted - 2008.09.15 02:09:00 - [16] Here's a guide I wrote that you might find useful. ... and I just spilled coffee on my mouse. D'oh! ----- My in Eve Profile My BattleClinic Page
Tellenta Gallente Invicta.	Posted - 2008.09.15 02:32:00 - [17] If you have to go through lowsec and are paranoid of what might be around the bend you can check the map for ship kills but that may not be accurate, or you can hop in a shuttle and take a peek. Most ships can't lock a shuttle before it warps off and if it does get killed, oh well. or you can scout in a pod it insta warps, and really only has 1 enemy smartbombs.
Gimpb Sturmgrenadier Inc Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.09.15 03:23:00 - [18] Edited by: Gimpb on 15/09/2008 03:23:36 The ability to pvp is much more about knowledge than skillpoints or isk. Bigger ships and more expensive gear just make for bigger blunders. It's not a bad idea at all to get your screw-ups out of the way in small cheap stuff. As for the whole making a living thing, there are very good money making opportunities in low sec and 0.0, especially for new players with limited capabilities, but you have to know how to fly safe. For example, let's compare ratting to missions. Lv3 missions generate income similar to low sec ratting and Lv4 missions are similar to 0.0 ratting. To start doing Lv4 missions well, you more or less need a BS, need to be able to fly it fairly compitently, and you need to have completed a very annoying rep grind. To rat in 0.0, a BC with a shoddy fit will do. So, that's roughly: 80-130 mil (depending on race), 2.3 mil skillpoints, and maybe 20 hours of rep grinding (very rough guess here) -vs- 30-40 mil, 1.2 mil skillpoints, and some research on locations and how to fly safe
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.09.15 04:12:00 - [19] Originally by: Abrazzar Reminds me of my first step into lowsec: pop WTF? squish Avoided lowsec until I knew what I was doing and how to do it. I dont think a player exists (that isnt a carebear thats always hugged emp hehe) that didnt go into lowsec one day as a young player in EVE and not get popped like the above.. Your actually quite lucky, When i was a noob, Id decided to take a badger with all my stuff in it to some 0.5 system as I saw a better agent there.I didnt realise it went through lowsec, and i dnt last long as a result Awesome EVE history
Bo Bojangles Interstellar eXodus Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.15 05:44:00 - [20] Originally by: Kenwyn Talbot ...I want to do pvp eventually,... I've met so many missioners in this game that sing that same song, some that have around 20 million SP's that still, 'want to pvp eventually'. You either do it or you don't man. But on the missioning thing. You were right in thinking that you could go in,.. quickly knock out a Level 1 and leave. You were just unlucky. It's usually ok to go into low sec in the fashion you did. However before accepting the mission, check out the map data. The filters are pretty good about telling you if there's a gatecamp or not.
NoOth3rDestiny	Posted - 2008.09.15 05:45:00 - [21] I myself have found Low Sec not to be as dangerous as you suggest. I don't live in low sec, and don't travel through it much, but rarely seen a gate camp there, even in busy pipes (maybe due to my play time), but when I fly through low sec, I usually use a frigate or shuttle, pretty much impossible for them to lock me in time before I warp, even if I get shot up, I've got the gate I'm warping to selected and hit the warp to button.
Zhilius	Posted - 2008.09.15 05:53:00 - [22] Originally by: Reza Pluss Most folks won't stop to think; they're camping to get as many killmails as possible, and you're just an incremented integer they use to measure their e-peens. They're not sitting at home thinking "how epic was that!?!?", they are just reloading their killboard to make sure they were on the killmail... THIS
techzer0 IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.09.15 05:54:00 - [23] Edited by: techzer0 on 15/09/2008 05:55:12 Was this in Ihakana tbh I only ever try joining in on Battleship kills anymore if there is a gatecamp going ------------ Originally by: Nexus Kinnon I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.15 06:56:00 - [24] Edited by: Andrue on 15/09/2008 06:58:35 Originally by: Kenwyn Talbot Of course, on the other side of the jump gate there were about 10 people waiting for me, warp drive scrambled and popped in seconds with no warning or demands. Then they pod killed me, again with no warning or demands. Given what I was carrying, I'm betting these folks could have made more ISK in the time it took doing just about anything else -- so clearly this was just a pure grief thing, not for any kind of benefit or profit. [snip] I want to do pvp eventually, but as it is it seems like you can make plenty of cash in high sec and for the expected value to favor low sec the profit would have to be like twenty times higher given the risk you run of just jumping into the system... and I seriously doubt that the numbers are slanted that way. Am I right? Meh, could've been a speculative kill or just idiots having a laugh. You could try asking for help in local on the safe side of the gate. Get a group of half a dozen people together and chances are the campers will run away like little girls. Very few of them can stomach a genuine fight. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.15 07:07:00 - [25] Originally by: Bo Bojangles Originally by: Kenwyn Talbot ...I want to do pvp eventually,... I've met so many missioners in this game that sing that same song, some that have around 20 million SP's that still, 'want to pvp eventually'. You either do it or you don't man. This. If you have propulsion jamming 1 and high speed maneuvering 1 then you're ready to PvP. Everything else is just icing on the cake (or increased cake variety).
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.09.15 07:15:00 - [26] One of my first trips to low-sec ended up with a sensor boosted sniper (back when sensor boosters didn't have scripts, so they had awesome lock-time) one-volleyed my frigate. I thought it was funny at the time ;) Anyway, the reason why we pop everything which comes through a gatecamp is, well, we have no way of knowing what's in your ship, so we might as well shoot everything and sift through the wreckage later. Most of the guys I know who are into piracy have had hundreds of millions drop from frigates or even noobships, so naturally we'll shoot these ships whenever we get the chance. As for jumping into low-sec, it's generally not that risky unless you're travelling through a 'pipe' leading from different market hubs / pockets of high-sec. (So going from Dodixie to Rens, for instance, is a good way to die). If you're someone running L1 missions, well, you could with ease rat in low-sec, and probably do it very safely on top, but you need to start thinking the way pirates do. Where are we likely to position ourselves? Where there's a lot of traffic, right? Well, avoid places which are likely to have a lot of traffic, then, and you should be fine. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.09.15 07:15:00 - [27] dont get discouraged by this, far as you know they may be practicing shooting people, knowing your guns and growing confidence in pvp is important in eve. Its only greifing in eve if they start hunting you no matter where you go in the galaxy and they keep pod killing you and arent getting paid to do it. Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today!!!
Verx Interis Amarr Aurora Security Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.09.15 07:35:00 - [28] 1. Don't panic. 2. Take a frigate, it can dodge 90% of lowsec camps 3. When your ship goes boom spam warp like a demented monkey. That gets your pod out. --------- Friggin signature size limit. The Eve professions list
Elrca Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.09.15 07:37:00 - [29] Unfortunately the term "Pirate" is something flung around the place. The people who killed you are not Pirates but yes Griefers. There was no fun for them cause it probably took longer to lock you than kill you, you had nothing valuable for them to sell. Where have the "real" Pirates gones?
Ecatherina W Gallente Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish Big Bang Quantum	Posted - 2008.09.15 07:45:00 - [30] Kenwyn, I'll send you a message in game later, as I think you need PVP training and I may be able to help you. :) Kath *** Ecatherina W *** Empress of the Multiverse DGAF Newbie Guide
Raukho Asgard Schiffswerften Ev0ke	Posted - 2008.09.15 07:50:00 - [31] Gate camping makes dumb but it happens. For me knowing that I can get killed just like that ads to the flavour of the game. Important lesson in EVE everything goes and griefing and scamming is part of it. If you can't handle that it's the wrong MMO for you, although by the sound of it you should be fine. I would really advise you to join a player corp. Without the support (mainly advise) of the 2 corporations I've been in and my brother who is playing longer I don't think I would have been where I'm now. EvE is way more complex then anything else out there. There are corporation focussing on trainging new player like EVE university or something like that.
Ombey Obsidian Inc. KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.15 08:13:00 - [32] This has been covered higher up, but basically if you are going anywhere that means you may be involved in PvP, ALWAYS fit a MWD. It has saved my arse more times than I care to mention. If the gatecampers are really good and have the right mix of ships, you are going to die. But generally, sitting out the session change timer then MWD'ing back to the gate you came from will save your neck- don't bother trying to warp off. -- 2d EveMaps My blog
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.09.15 08:30:00 - [33] Shoot first, ask questions later. You may not have had anything of value to them, but they don't know that... Generally people who care about their sec status won't shoot frigs and stuff. People who are already -10 though, will likely kill you at every oppurtunity. - Infectious -
Tiodus Gallente City of Certitude Coalition of the ExtraOrdinary	Posted - 2008.09.15 10:06:00 - [34] The reason isn't profit but killmail whoring tbqfh -------------------- /O\ Can't pvp /O\ --------------------
Kazang Arbitrary Freedom	Posted - 2008.09.15 10:20:00 - [35] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Kenwyn Talbot but as it is it seems like you can make plenty of cash in high sec and for the expected value to favor low sec the profit would have to be like twenty times higher given the risk you run of just jumping into the system... and I seriously doubt that the numbers are slanted that way. Am I right? The stealthwhinedetector spiked to 500 milliwhines on this part. I see what you saying here but he is right though, low sec would need to be MUCH higher reward to compensate for the risk involved, i quite often solo rat in hostile 0.0 space and can make an awful lot of cash before im hunted down. Not so in low sec, totaly pointless to rat, or mission in low sec as the rewards are less that 10% better than high sec, and as for mining in low sec you have to be suicidal. Only time i ever go into low sec is to shoot other people and really thats all its good for, a free for all battle, which albeit fun is almost totally unprofitable.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.09.15 10:35:00 - [36] Originally by: Elrca Griefers - DesuSigs
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.09.15 10:42:00 - [37] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 15/09/2008 10:42:31 Originally by: Elrca Unfortunately the term "Pirate" is something flung around the place. The people who killed you are not Pirates but yes Griefers. There was no fun for them cause it probably took longer to lock you than kill you, you had nothing valuable for them to sell. Where have the "real" Pirates gones? ... Originally by: Tiodus The reason isn't profit but killmail whoring tbqfh After my mate got 1.8B off a noobship, I put noobships&stuff back on overview. Generally, killing AFK frigs&etc has netted me at least 400-500M, which is not a bad sum for spending 100K worth of ammo. You are very naive if you think killing frigates at gates isn't profitable. I know people would profit quite a bit if they killed my 900K SP hauling alt flying a frig around (although I restrict myself to 100M carried roughly). In the world full of alts, killing frigates (regarldess of char age) at gates is quite profitable. And if it's profitable, it cannot possibly be griefing, so don't even use the word. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2008.09.15 10:42:00 - [38] In low security they have to lock you to scram you, so try some Inertia Stabilisers, always warp to zero. Dont fly big ships, if you wanna do level 2 or 3 missions maybe an Assault Frigate would do? their size makes them hard to catch for most low sec camps.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.09.15 10:45:00 - [39] Originally by: umop 3pisdn In low security they have to lock you to scram you, so try some Inertia Stabilisers, always warp to zero. Dont fly big ships, if you wanna do level 2 or 3 missions maybe an Assault Frigate would do? their size makes them hard to catch for most low sec camps. This. Also, train Evasive Maneuvering to V. It increases agility (which is win), takes 10 days, and enables you to fly interceptors on top which will serve you well for PvP. A AF literally breezes through L2s and does most L3s easy as well, and a AF is genearlly non-trivial to lock at a gate... next to impossible if you fit a agility rig, or a nanofiber/istab. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Space Wanderer	Posted - 2008.09.15 10:49:00 - [40] Edited by: Space Wanderer on 15/09/2008 10:49:53 Originally by: Kenwyn Talbot I think I made a bad assumption thinking that people in this game generally attack for a reason >< Contrary to what you think, that's a correct assumption (underline the "generally", though). You just have not clear what the reasons, or their consequences, are. Especially, gatecamps like the one you met ALWAYS attack for a reason. Profit, killmails, or both. Originally by: Kenwyn Talbot so clearly this was just a pure grief thing, not for any kind of benefit or profit. It makes that impression, but think about it. They had no way to know whether you had something worth it, or not, unless they left you some precious time you would have used to escape, or to call on friends. Consider, if you were a pirate would you prefer to shoot first and sift the wreckage later, or check first with the risk of the pray to flee? Originally by: Kenwyn Talbot Basically, it seems to me that one should essentially never go outside of high sec until one is very, very powerful or traveling in a fleet. Not correct. While that might be true for 0.0 (only the fleet part, because as much powerful you can be, you WILL die in 0.0 without backup, unless you learn to be VERY slippery) lowsec is really pretty easy to fly through if you learn the game mechanics and train for the right ship equipment. For instance: you did not tell us what kind of ship you were piloting. Was it a frig? (you mention it was a L1 mission). In that case they shouldn't have been able to scramble you, unless you made some mistake like break your gatecloak before starting warping or using some mod that awfully reduced your agility. Even cruisers and blockade runners with agility mods can often pass lowsec camps. Then there are the Warp core stabilizers which allow you to resist warp scrambling, but there is a very specialized and expensive ship which is able to bypass them, and is often employed in camps so rely only on them is reckless. Then there are the T2 cloaking specialized ships like the covertops, stealth bombers or the recon ships which can warp away while cloaked or instawarp out of cloak. Then there is the combination of mwd + cloak, which a good gate camp can beat but gives you at least a chance to pass. And then there is the old-fashioned "use a scout" method. Really, if you want to survive camps you have to learn to be slippery, not powerful. If you learn that lowsec camps can be passed most of times. 0.0 is another matter, though.
Bonny Lee Caldari Liga Freier Terraner Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.09.15 10:57:00 - [41] Edited by: Bonny Lee on 15/09/2008 10:58:09 Originally by: Bo Bojangles Originally by: Kenwyn Talbot ...I want to do pvp eventually,... I've met so many missioners in this game that sing that same song, some that have around 20 million SP's that still, 'want to pvp eventually'. You either do it or you don't man. But on the missioning thing. You were right in thinking that you could go in,.. quickly knock out a Level 1 and leave. You were just unlucky. It's usually ok to go into low sec in the fashion you did. However before accepting the mission, check out the map data. The filters are pretty good about telling you if there's a gatecamp or not. This is true. If you want to pvp then do it regardless how many sp you have. If you dont want to fly alone look for a corp where you can pvp. You only have to ask yourself if you want to invest your earned ISK in fun or wait until you are rich and bored. I dont speak about traders etc. they have an other profession which is ok but if you just mission to have enough money to pvp in some months you will spend lots of them and never enjoy what eve is really about.
Disco Flint The Flaming Sideburn's	Posted - 2008.09.15 11:12:00 - [42] It doesn't even have to be pirates, if your corp/alliance is living in lowsec, you're probably trying to secure your space as good as you can (and it's much easier to do so in 0.0 than in lowsec). Which means, gatecamps and shooting anything that doesn't wear the blue tag. After all, you could potentially be the alt of a hostile corp carrying a cyno, or hauling some stuff for said hostile corp that comes and bites me in my behind later, or maybe you are just a scout alt, or maybe you're even some bastard looking to pop our defenseless haulers and miners. There's plenty of reasons to shoot people, just because they're not apparent to you doesn't make it 'griefing' or 'killmail whoring'. And as has been mentioned, in the age of alts there is simply no knowing if you're a noob, it's always best to shoot first, then pod, and then skip the questions for looting. :)
Lubomir Penev interimo	Posted - 2008.09.15 12:12:00 - [43] Originally by: Kenwyn Talbot Stupidly, I figured that since I wasn't carrying anything of value (like 300 antimatter charges, that's it) I'd probably get left alone. And how could they possibly know it? So many people carry valuable stuff in crap ships than the best course of action is to shoot them all and them rummage through the wrecks. -- I'm done whining about AFs, it looks like they are making them right \o/
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.09.15 12:23:00 - [44] Edited by: Le Skunk on 15/09/2008 12:23:31 When you jumped into low sec.. What precisly about the warning which said WARNING YOU ARE ENTERING LOW SEC DANGEROUS SPACE WHERE CONCORD WILL NOT PROTECT YOU AND YOU CAN BE KILLED ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO BE BLOWN UP: YES NO (at this point you clicked yes.. remember?) Made you think you would be protected and not attacked? SKUNK
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.09.15 12:25:00 - [45] Originally by: Disco Flint It doesn't even have to be pirates, if your corp/alliance is living in lowsec, you're probably trying to secure your space as good as you can (and it's much easier to do so in 0.0 than in lowsec). Which means, gatecamps and shooting anything that doesn't wear the blue tag. In my experience, Alliances and Corps out of 0.0 are to pansy to shoot anything that will give them a sec drop. SKUNK
wdwjhdw	Posted - 2008.09.15 12:34:00 - [46] Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 actually m8, its not a griefing thing, they werent targetting YOU specifically Since when did griefing require that you pick specific targets?
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.15 13:05:00 - [47] Originally by: wdwjhdw Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 actually m8, its not a griefing thing, they werent targetting YOU specifically Since when did griefing require that you pick specific targets? Since you installed EvE.
flashster	Posted - 2008.09.15 13:36:00 - [48] Edited by: flashster on 15/09/2008 13:37:40 Edited by: flashster on 15/09/2008 13:37:04 As mentioned before, always jump to with 0m of a gate, that way you should be able to get through in seconds. You also have 30 seconds of invisibility when you exit a gate, make use of this and check who is around the gate. If you smell trouble then wait about 20 seconds and then go back through the same gate If however you don't feel ready for lowsec yet you can set the nav to avoid lowsec unless absolutely necessary. It may mean that you sometimes have to make a lot of jumps, but it will keep you alive until your ready to handle it ;)
Empyre Domestic Reform	Posted - 2008.09.15 13:44:00 - [49] Best thing to do is get another account, even a trial account, and start a character you can fly ahead in a scout to check things out. If this is not an option, fly in a shuttle or at least in a shuttle to check things out. Shuttles are much more difficult to lock onto and they almost insta warp. And since you can't deploy bubbles in lo-sec, they'll only really grab you if they have an inty in range or a boosted heavy dictor. Destroy all that which is evil, so that which is good may flourish.
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.09.15 14:00:00 - [50] Look at it from their point of view: Popping your ship is the quickest way to see if it contains anything valuable
Kenwyn Talbot	Posted - 2008.09.15 14:23:00 - [51] Thanks again everyone for the responses, I appreciate it =) Just to respond to a few general things -- 1. I was mistaken in my assumption that people bother to scan you. I understand that it would take time and allow me to escape -- but once they already had me locked down I guess I figured they could afford the second or two. Regardless, I can see why they would pop my ship as it's easier than scanning. But that doesn't explain why they went out of their way to pod kill me. They didn't just open fire again or what not -- they almost immediately scrambled my pod as I was trying to warp away. 2. In terms of knowing what area of space I'm in, I think I'm going to need to have a lot more experience before that helps me out! Basically all I know right now is the high sec area of gallente space around Algogille and one smaller area where I had been missioning like ~8-10 jumps away. I have no idea where anything is ><. That said, some of those map tools that you all mentioned are very handy and I'm learning how to use them. Unfortunately, this particular mission forced me to go through lowsec no matter what. I tried plotting it manually and plotting it with a variety of autopilot settings designed to avoid lowsec space, but I couldn't find a route. 3. I was in a poorly fitted Vexor. I'd have run it in a frigate if I thought I had any chance of being able to complete the mission on the other side in one. I don't have the skill to fly an AF yet, nor would I fly one at the moment even if I could given the "don't fly anything that you can't afford to lose" rule =) 4. Regarding my interest in PVP -- It's legit. I've been MMOing since Ultima Online, and in that game I was in a guild that did a ton of PVP. When we weren't killing people who wandered into our territory, we were killing each other for little to no reason. I can't tell you how many times I was looted dry. It's by far the most fun I've ever had in an MMO, in part because the guild basically provided all the gear we ever needed. Thus making money was irrelevant. In EVE, there are a few things that keep me from getting involved in PVP right away (although at the moment I lack those two critical skills, not that I couldn't have them by the end of the week if I wanted). One is that I feel like solo PVP is a bad, bad plan and I don't have a corp. I also don't know anything about what corps are out there and don't want to make the mistake of joining a bad one. I also feel like I won't get recruited into a good corp given that I'm a noob and my skills suck at the moment. Ultimately, I want to spend most of my time in 0.0 protecting territory, ratting, pvping, and advancing my character that way. I know I could fly tackle soon if I wanted. I don't mind the idea of flying tackle at all -- but I don't want to be doing that forever. Perhaps more importantly, I don't want to ruin my rep or waste a bunch of time by making a bad first corp decision. I suppose in my experience with other MMOs (UO, EQ, DAoC, WoW, LotRO, AoC) has taught me that the only good guilds are the ones that you get into by word of mouth after you already have a powerful character built up from soloing. With only one exception, every guild that I have joined after being recruited sub-level cap (I know, a model that doesn't exactly apply to EVE) has been a waste of time, with the one exception of my UO guild. I joined them from day 1 and only really knew about them because I happened to know a few members IRL. It's entirely possible that I'm wrong about this when it comes to EVE and there are corps that both recruit lowbies and aren't awful. I'd love to be wrong about this.
Tellenta Gallente Invicta.	Posted - 2008.09.15 14:32:00 - [52] Never fear lowsec, yes it is has people that will shoot you for little or no reason, but so what this is a pvp game some people think pvp means shooting haulers and cruisers with a large gang. What you need to develop is minor escape and evasion techniques, familiarize yourself with the scanner, and take note of where gate camps are. Some systems are camped damn near 23/7 some systems are empty all month and maybe have a camp for a sum total of an hour. most of lowsec is glaringly empty. When you can afford to, find some lowsec hole live there for a while, make e-friends with the people around there. The person that killed you just might be a great person in a great corp willing to take you in and help you learn the game. Hiding in highsec from the rest of the game is a choice, but a rather boring choice. As someone in FNA once said to me when I was a noobie "Tellenta you take to many risks". While that is true I probably would have quit this game out of boredom a year ago if I never took any risks.
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.15 14:36:00 - [53] Killing the pod means you can't hang around in local or nearby systems warning other people about their camp. It also forestalls the victim filling local with tedious tears and unconvincing threats.
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.15 14:39:00 - [54] Originally by: Kenwyn Talbot It's entirely possible that I'm wrong about this when it comes to EVE and there are corps that both recruit lowbies and aren't awful. I'd love to be wrong about this. You are wrong . Join Agony Unleashed ASAP: they specifically exist to teach new players to PvP and they're pretty good at it. Additional bonus: they have a base in 0.0 which is easy to get to, so you can get access to 0.0 rats too.
Shanur Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.09.15 15:05:00 - [55] 1. You are right about PvE being better for cash generation. This is not because of rewards in low sec being skewed, as much as it is about all the money sinks being in item creation, and all the item sinks being in combat losses. As PvP combat creates losses, those engaging in it ARE the sink and therefore destroying resources. Those have to come from somewhere and that somewhere is PvE. It is by definition almost impossible to sustain yourself with purely PvP unless you do nothing but pirate miners and mission runners and many players will either rat, mission or trade to finance their PvP career. 2. Because PvP combat isn't very rewarding financially, almost all the people that engage in it do it for something other than pure ISK raising. In most cases, it is simply the thrill of blowing up another player. This makes it look "pointless" to someone who is ISK driven because they are attacked for no reason other than for that person to see the pretty flash or hear the squishy sound of a pod being destroyed. You should always assume that people will attack you "just because they can", and only a prohibitive cost will keep them from that(IOW, the prospect of them losing their ship to either CONCORD or you). If you keep that in mind and run whenever you think you might be attacked, you will live a lot longer. 3. As for increasing your PvP awareness and skills, i strongly recommend the suggestion posted above, to talk to Agony Unleashed. Even if you don't join their corp they can still help you as they run a PvP school where for an affordable amount(a few mil IIANM) you will be taught the basics of PvP combat. Since you have no implants at this time, i strongly urge you to raise a few mil, stock up on some T1 frigates with fittings(you WILL lose ships. Better have a few pre fitted replacements on standby) and see about enrolling.
Lubomir Penev interimo	Posted - 2008.09.15 15:15:00 - [56] Originally by: Kenwyn Talbot 1. I was mistaken in my assumption that people bother to scan you. I understand that it would take time and allow me to escape -- but once they already had me locked down I guess I figured they could afford the second or two. Ship scanners are unreliable, so are cargo scanners, and take slots better filled bu useful stuff for when someone combat capable engage that camp, also, for all they know you could be the alt of someone who will drop a mothership on them so they'd rather pop you before you open that cyno. Blame people using noob alts. Noob alts to haul valuable stuff, noob alts to open cyno. As for learning PvP the easy way right now is factional warfare, the quality is low but the quantity is there, and there must still be a few decent corps participating that will recruit from the ranks of the NPC militia corp. -- I'm done whining about AFs, it looks like they are making them right \o/
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.09.15 16:14:00 - [57] Your experience is a common "first experience" of low-sec. It's why many high-sec players think that low-sec is actually a lot more dangerous than it really is. Gate camps are a lazy way to get low-risk kills. The guys who killed you also had an alt sitting on the other side of the gate to make sure that nothing that could kill them was about to jump through. If there was, they'd just run. Use the map, Luke! Open your map, in settings, open statistics and choose to color stars by ships destroyed in the last hour. The downside of a gatecamp is that they are easy to see on the map this way. If you see more than a ship or two killed in the last hour where you are going there's probably a gate campe there. Make yourself an alt that you don't train at all. If you have to go into low sec fly your alt there and jump him through first. If there's a gate camp you'll lose a free noob ship. If there isn't, you can proceed on your way.
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.09.15 16:18:00 - [58] Originally by: Kenwyn Talbot 1. I was mistaken in my assumption that people bother to scan you. I understand that it would take time and allow me to escape -- but once they already had me locked down I guess I figured they could afford the second or two. Regardless, I can see why they would pop my ship as it's easier than scanning. But that doesn't explain why they went out of their way to pod kill me. They didn't just open fire again or what not -- they almost immediately scrambled my pod as I was trying to warp away. We killed some 70 ships and pods yesterday. Usually we try to ransom the pod but it depends on incoming intel. When we have a big force approaching we just go for the kill and don't wait 30 seconds til you paid 5 M and we get popped by your friends. If you come in a Caldari Navy Raven, we'll ransom you for sure, but Vexors usually don't pay big ransoms.. Originally by: Kenwyn Talbot 2. In terms of knowing what area of space I'm in, I think I'm going to need to have a lot more experience before that helps me out! Basically all I know right now is the high sec area of gallente space around Algogille and one smaller area where I had been missioning like ~8-10 jumps away. I have no idea where anything is ><. That said, some of those map tools that you all mentioned are very handy and I'm learning how to use them. Unfortunately, this particular mission forced me to go through lowsec no matter what. I tried plotting it manually and plotting it with a variety of autopilot settings designed to avoid lowsec space, but I couldn't find a route. Reject the missions leading you to losec or use a frigate sized ship. We usually don't even go for those in losec as they are quite slippery. Originally by: Kenwyn Talbot 3. I was in a poorly fitted Vexor. I'd have run it in a frigate if I thought I had any chance of being able to complete the mission on the other side in one. I don't have the skill to fly an AF yet, nor would I fly one at the moment even if I could given the "don't fly anything that you can't afford to lose" rule =) Get support skills (Navigation makes you fast, Engineering and Electronics allow you to fit more stuff on your ship, Mechanics improves your tank, etc.) and see how much you can do with a simple frig that we would not have caught. When your ship pops, spam the warp button to go to a station or celestial object. Your pod instawarps, we have no chance to catch it unless you are unprepared. My first experiences in losec and nullsec were quite similar to yours, thinking if I'm nice, others will be nice to me too. Then I realized that the only thing stopping people from being nasty is shooting them first and decided to become a pirate. And guess what? You can do it too! You can grab a cheap frigate, fit a warp disruptor and some guns and see if you can kill some ships. You'll die a lot, but you will have kills as well - plus you will have the best time ever in EVE! Cheers and good luck for your further ventures - shooting your ship was nothing personal, it's part of our profession.
TimMc Gallente SolaR KillerS	Posted - 2008.09.15 16:49:00 - [59] Originally by: Abrazzar Reminds me of my first step into lowsec: pop WTF? squish Avoided lowsec until I knew what I was doing and how to do it. Mine too, except I was in a shuttle.
Luke Rygel Amarr Rygel Industries	Posted - 2008.09.15 18:30:00 - [60] Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 actually m8, its not a griefing thing, they werent targetting YOU specifically, it was a gatecamp, they killed the next 5 people that jumped through just the same, this quite frequently happens at gatecamps, they dont stop to ransom, just lock and f1-f8, its not a GRIEFING thing, so please stop calling it that Yeah, it's not really griefing if they aren't tragetting a specific person over and over ad naseum. It is however a bunch of lame pvp failures who just liek to up their kill counts with no skill engagements by sitting on a gate with 15-1 odds (which are meaningless for exactly this reason). Your only safe bet for going through low sec is a ship that will align and warp fast enough that they can't lock you. ---------------------------------------------- Taking something from one person is called stealing, taking everything from everybody is called government.
EpicFailTroll	Posted - 2008.09.15 18:48:00 - [61] EvE Online: where alts enable to - haul while being unrelated to your main - check for incoming vigilantes - mission in highsec to support your griefing main EvE Online : where cheap griefplay - is more efficient than fitting scanners - rewards you because of aforementioned alt haulers - somehow entitles griefers to talk condescendently to their victims, and recruit them EvE Online forums: where trolls troll 24/7 to uphold their idea of leet pvp!
Shad0wsFury Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.09.16 00:12:00 - [62] this topic is lol
Jerald Lutney Gallente Solarforge Manufacturing	Posted - 2008.09.16 03:48:00 - [63] I've been ganked by a few gatecamps, but after the 3rd or fourth, it stops really phasing you. The fact you're analysing and rationalising the -why- of it means that instead of being terrified, you're trying to understand it to prevent it happening again. I've found the most sure fire way to avoid a gatecamp is to grab a Cov Ops (such as a Helios, which is also useful if you want to do low-sec Exploration, and then sell the scan results to other occupants in that area to save them the trouble of tracking the site down themselves.) and a Cov Ops Cloak II. It makes avoiding a gatecamp a breeze, because unless they specifically know where you are going to show up on their overview, you are already cloaking and aligning for a warp, and if you are johnny-on-the-spot with the f1-cloaking, will be on the overview for less than half a second. They also tend to have an acceptably large cargohold for a frgiate (to cart around those probes.) If you are ever around the Jel, Lirsautton, Ardene, and Ardallabier systems, be warned there is a 0.4 system sitting right in the middle of them that can be a short cut from Ardene to Jel, but is pretty much perma-camped. Autopilot dragged me through there once, taught me to tell the AP to avoid low-sec unless needed. At this point I fly a Domi and Mega for missions in Empire, and unless the system I have to go to is deserted, or the obejective in the mission is small enough to fit in a Helios, I avoid anything going to low sec. -Especially- if the risk/reward margin is very low. Solarforge Manufacturing Making T2 Invention easier than IKEA assembly!
Shanur Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.09.16 08:26:00 - [64] Originally by: EpicFailTroll EvE Online forums: where trolls troll 24/7 to uphold their idea of leet pvp! Name and bottom line say it all
Doddy Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.09.16 08:46:00 - [65] Edited by: Doddy on 16/09/2008 08:47:31 Originally by: Kenwyn Talbot m this is accurate. Basically, it seems to me that one should essentially never go outside of high sec until one is very, very powerful or traveling in a fleet. Very powerful = no help. In a fleet = help. An 80 mil sp char flying a multi-bil ship would probably have no chance against a 10 man camp either. Even without a fleet its very easy though, you just need to avoid the camps. Once you are actually in lo-sec you are generally pretty safe. Its only the journey down thats a problem. To get round that you need a scout or to go through the gate-camped system after dt before the camp is set up. The other point is of course that you shouldn't fly anything you cant afford to lose. For a t1 combat mission you simply buy and t1 fit a t1 frig and insure it. If you die its no loss. For a t1 courier mission you can even use a noob ship, then the only thing you risk is failing the mission if you die. As for why they kill you when what you carry is worthless? Firstly pirates in general are egomaniacs and sociopaths. Their k/d ratio is pretty much their reason for playing eve. Secondly they might as well kill you, as the 1 in 40 shuttle/frig/noob-ship that drops something good makes it worth it.
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.16 09:02:00 - [66] Originally by: EpicFailTroll EvE Online: where alts enable to - haul while being unrelated to your main - check for incoming vigilantes - mission in highsec to support your griefing main EvE Online : where cheap griefplay - is more efficient than fitting scanners - rewards you because of aforementioned alt haulers - somehow entitles griefers to talk condescendently to their victims, and recruit them EvE Online forums: where trolls troll 24/7 to uphold their idea of leet pvp! EvE Online: Where if you don't like what other people are doing, you can do something about it.
WowZilla The Leeroy Jenkins Project	Posted - 2008.09.16 09:07:00 - [67] was this your death? cruisers slow to get into warp unless you've got intertia stabalisers. i doubt a warp core stab would have saved you as the gatecmp no doubt had more than one point. if you have to go into lo sec again then fit it with 3-4 interia stabalisers, maybe a wcs and a nano or two. you'll get into warp quickly, take your normal fittings in your cargo and refit once docked. Although an organised camp will have a remote repped harpy which will insta lock you anyway. Only way to really get past an organised gate camp on your own is to go avoid it and go the long way round. ______________________ I am the worst poaster
Vitelius Decorum Inc Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.16 11:24:00 - [68] Originally by: Kenwyn Talbot I think I made a bad assumption thinking that people in this game generally attack for a reason >< Basically, a dumb T1 mission forced me to fly through low sec space. Stupidly, I figured that since I wasn't carrying anything of value (like 300 antimatter charges, that's it) I'd probably get left alone. I just had to quickly jump through two systems and I'd be back in high sec. Of course, on the other side of the jump gate there were about 10 people waiting for me, warp drive scrambled and popped in seconds with no warning or demands. Then they pod killed me, again with no warning or demands. Given what I was carrying, I'm betting these folks could have made more ISK in the time it took doing just about anything else -- so clearly this was just a pure grief thing, not for any kind of benefit or profit. I'll be fine -- after all, I lost maybe a few million credits... although the time it takes to go refitting is annoying. But of course, I'm trying to learn out of this experience and I'm posting here mainly to check to see if the message I am taking away from this is accurate. Basically, it seems to me that one should essentially never go outside of high sec until one is very, very powerful or traveling in a fleet. Seems like traveling outside of high sec is just not worth the risk. For me it's not even an issue of "carebear" vs. "hardcore" or whatever. I want to do pvp eventually, but as it is it seems like you can make plenty of cash in high sec and for the expected value to favor low sec the profit would have to be like twenty times higher given the risk you run of just jumping into the system... and I seriously doubt that the numbers are slanted that way. Am I right? You keep talking about isk... ask yourself this question: what do you want to achieve in this game? I can already anticipate the answer: make more isk in missions to get a bigger ship to make more isk in missions to get even more bigger ships to... ho hum. That gets old so bloody fast. That's how I spent my first month in EvE and I could never go back to that stuff, never ever again. PvP is the answer - make isk just to spend it like no tomorrow to blow up others. Oh and if you think you need to be a "hardcore old player" to PvP you are mistaken. PvP is simply the most fun thing in this game and you don't need nber ships with nber fittings and skills to do it. You just need to use your brains, get some friends and have fun. Indeed you need a bit of balls to go out there and get aggressive but it's so completely worth it. The first proper PvP experiences when adrenaline rushes into your head, it's just great! Piracy is of course another way to "fight" but I personally wouldn't call ganking carebears in lowsec that don't even shoot back as they panic as proper PvP. My advice: join a corp with likeminded people that actively PvPs and join their gangs. Get some experience and enjoy your time. I guarantee you'll like it. ---
Gilgamesh1980 The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.09.16 13:33:00 - [69] short and sweet, I prefer the term 'shits'n'giggles' over been called a griefer, OP is not important enough to be griefed anyway. we killed many ships last night and over the last days, and tbh, we have made a lot of profit from it. just ransoming all the time isn't fun, so we vary a lot Safe flight Supreme Commander and Diplomat of the Black Rabbits and Gurlstas associates
EpicFailTroll	Posted - 2008.09.16 14:03:00 - [70] Originally by: Malcanis EvE Online: Where if you don't like what other people are doing, you can do something about it. Actually, in the case of lowsec gatecamps, you can't. Gankbears will just dock when they see you incoming with a gang large enough to stand a chance against them (they always have alts, for scouting and missioning). And this is the best case scenario where you have people at your side interested in busting gatecamps, which yields no profit whatsoever. Griefers enjoy hatemails and QQ in local, but nobody cares about busting gatecamps, you won't get thank yous. People who travel thru the area have alts, people who don't have alts don't travel thru the area, or travel in fast ships. Nobody cares about vigilantes, so would-be vigilantes have no incentive to bust gatecamps. More power to the power of two! what would be EvE without alts?
Odessima Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.09.16 14:24:00 - [71] Originally by: Elrca Unfortunately the term "Pirate" is something flung around the place. The people who killed you are not Pirates but yes Griefers. There was no fun for them cause it probably took longer to lock you than kill you, you had nothing valuable for them to sell. Where have the "real" Pirates gones? This.....A pirate is someone, who makes money by taking things from other people, I am quite sure we qualify as REAL Pirates on that point. A griefer as someone mentioned earlier makes a point of hunting down the same target repeatedly!
Cat Molina Minmatar Consolidated Mining Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.16 17:02:00 - [72] Edited by: Cat Molina on 16/09/2008 17:02:37 You do not have to wait until you have [insane number] skill points to leave high-sec. All you really need is a MWD. Fit an Atron with a T1 MWD, a T2 small cap battery (inexpensive and easy to train for), a T1 nanofiber and T1 overdrive in the lows. Weapons won't fit, but that doesn't matter as you're probably not going to kill anything until you learn how stuff works. Throw your single Hobgoblin I in there... you never know. Insure and check that your clone is up to date. Now go run around in the 0.0 territories of the biggest, baddest alliances in the game. Go to the areas with the most fighting... most kills on the map. Don't smack when you manage to make it through a gate camp... be nice. See how long you can survive. If you get popped, figure out how they got you and try something different next time. The Atron and fit is dirt cheap, very agile, and a fun way to experience the more dangerous side of Eve. You'll gain experience, learn to control that adrenal reaction gatecamps seem to inflict upon new players, and meet new people (who are trying to kill you). It's a fun way for a solo player to begin learning the ropes.
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.16 19:10:00 - [73] Originally by: EpicFailTroll Originally by: Malcanis EvE Online: Where if you don't like what other people are doing, you can do something about it. Actually, in the case of lowsec gatecamps, you can't. Gankbears will just dock when they see you incoming with a gang large enough to stand a chance against them Then you've done something about it. Your inability to run gankbears out of the game matches their inability to run you out.
Gilgamesh1980 The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.09.16 21:14:00 - [74] come to think of it it's looks quite good tbh Supreme Commander and Diplomat of the Black Rabbits and Gurlstas associates
Cat Molina Minmatar Consolidated Mining Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.16 23:11:00 - [75] Originally by: Gilgamesh1980 come to think of it it's looks quite good tbh Nice. Darken the two skulls in the background and they won't conflict with the main one.
Barnett The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2008.09.22 01:04:00 - [76] Camping low sec gates and killing people is just as much part of this game as mining or mission running. Sorry that you had a bad experience but: 1. You are given a warning on leaving high sec that you are jumping into somewhere that could be dangerous. 2. You have the option of using an alt to scout ahead. 3. You can check the map to see recent ship losses in the system you are about to jump into. 4. You have the option of avoiding low sec and not taking the risk in the first place. As someone else mentioned people often run expensive modules or blueprints through low sec in frigates so campers will hit everything that comes through since the poxy tec 1 frigate is always a potential goldmine. The idea that people are going to roam around looking for fair or well-balanced fights is a fallacy. Corps who make money from PvP do it by killing more than they lose. In order to do this they have to stack the odds in their favour and the best way of doing this is to have overwhelming firepower which usually means a large gang. I would say that 80% of the stuff that comes through a low sec gate camp is not worth killing, but you don't know that until you have done the deed and checked the wreck. Oh and every now and again these campers really do hit the jackpot, like when we got a transport pilot to eject and bagged 2.5 billion worth of kit in one go. ------------------------------------ For participating in the podding of GM Aeryn your security rating has been adjusted by -0.0020.
Lily Sarman Ratio Decidendi	Posted - 2008.09.22 01:10:00 - [77] I fine 0.0 a lot more enjoyable than lowsec but then again its more secure than lowsec since you have the protection of an alliance. ------------------------------------------- Cheerfulness in the face of adversity
Barnett The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2008.09.22 01:12:00 - [78] Originally by: Luke Rygel Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 actually m8, its not a griefing thing, they werent targetting YOU specifically, it was a gatecamp, they killed the next 5 people that jumped through just the same, this quite frequently happens at gatecamps, they dont stop to ransom, just lock and f1-f8, its not a GRIEFING thing, so please stop calling it that Yeah, it's not really griefing if they aren't tragetting a specific person over and over ad naseum. It is however a bunch of lame pvp failures who just liek to up their kill counts with no skill engagements by sitting on a gate with 15-1 odds (which are meaningless for exactly this reason). Your only safe bet for going through low sec is a ship that will align and warp fast enough that they can't lock you. If your definition of lame PvP failure is 64 kills to 1 loss then I am quite happy to be a lame PvP failure. ------------------------------------ For participating in the podding of GM Aeryn your security rating has been adjusted by -0.0020.
Black Phlanx Caldari Kingfisher Industries	Posted - 2008.09.22 03:10:00 - [79] Originally by: Kenwyn Talbot I think I made a bad assumption thinking that people in this game generally attack for a reason >< Basically, a dumb T1 mission forced me to fly through low sec space. Stupidly, I figured that since I wasn't carrying anything of value (like 300 antimatter charges, that's it) I'd probably get left alone. I just had to quickly jump through two systems and I'd be back in high sec. Of course, on the other side of the jump gate there were about 10 people waiting for me, warp drive scrambled and popped in seconds with no warning or demands. Then they pod killed me, again with no warning or demands. Given what I was carrying, I'm betting these folks could have made more ISK in the time it took doing just about anything else -- so clearly this was just a pure grief thing, not for any kind of benefit or profit. I'll be fine -- after all, I lost maybe a few million credits... although the time it takes to go refitting is annoying. But of course, I'm trying to learn out of this experience and I'm posting here mainly to check to see if the message I am taking away from this is accurate. Basically, it seems to me that one should essentially never go outside of high sec until one is very, very powerful or traveling in a fleet. Seems like traveling outside of high sec is just not worth the risk. For me it's not even an issue of "carebear" vs. "hardcore" or whatever. I want to do pvp eventually, but as it is it seems like you can make plenty of cash in high sec and for the expected value to favor low sec the profit would have to be like twenty times higher given the risk you run of just jumping into the system... and I seriously doubt that the numbers are slanted that way. Am I right? Next time turn down any low-sec missions, and also look at the system info on your map. It'll show you the hotbeds of combat and ship losses in the area.

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