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Is there a Ten Commandments of Ship fitting?

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slingshot smith Gallente Kalgoorlie BOYZ	Posted - 2008.10.14 04:44:00 - [1] Hello, I've been playing eve for a couple of months now and I love it. Bumped into some interesting folks that have helped along the way. Life is good, it could be better. I'm the cautious type (I don't think I'm a CareBear) done my share of mining, some mission running and have been cornered into the occasional pvp. It's the later that I want to improve on (tired of getting my arse kicked!). So to that end I need a little guidance from you seasoned players. What I know is this. In the eve universe we as players are spoiled for choice and the choices we make boil down to personal preference and playing style (perhaps Race?). In fact I love this aspect of the game but I find myself (more often than not) bringing a knife to a gun fight. I'm making poor choices because I don't know what I'm looking for, I still lack the understanding of what makes a fit good. Or more importantly how to make a fit work? Is there a Ten Commandments of Ship fitting? 1. Thou shalt not mix guns..... ....perhaps a rule of thumb that I can start with? [or in pirate terms a guide-line.. ha! Jack Sparrow would be so proud.] Regards SlingShot
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.14 04:52:00 - [2] There are no commandments and there are no sure things in PvP. All you can really do is play the odds to give yourself the best possible chance of coming out on top in general. 1) DPS wins the battle - tank only staves off defeat 2) A buffer tank (where you maximize your EHP) is best for worst case scenario planning. 3) Know what you want your ship to do before you fit a single module 4) If you are going to sacrifice a module that furthers your assumed role, there had better be an INCREDIBLY good reason. 5) Know what your enemy can do, and try to keep him from doing it. 6) Always assume you're going to be pointed in the battle and realize there will be some fights you won't ever be able to run from. 7) Know what your ship can do - maximize it's utility by sticking as close to your optimal situation as possible, often truped by point 5. 8) Mobility is key - speed modules like AB and MWD probably won't give you an edge - they let you contest control of the battlespace. Always fit one or the other, and in general the MWD is your best chance of getting out alive. 9) Know the difference between a sure thing and a suicide run. Fit accordingly. 10) Never fly a ship you aren't prepared to lose the moment you undock.
Tighty Whities	Posted - 2008.10.14 04:52:00 - [3] Reserved.
Last Wolf Umbra Wing	Posted - 2008.10.14 04:56:00 - [4] Golden Rule. Have Fun! Maybe its just me, but too many people in this game are too afraid to go boom. Now and then when I get bored I'll buy a frig or cruiser and hop into a pod with no implants... pick a random 0.0 or low-sec system and see how long i'll last. I spend no more than a few mill but it can be a lot of fun. And I get to see purdy explosions!!! (Usually my own ship.......) __________________________________________________________ Originally by: Liang Nuren wrong forum isroy i am vjery drunm
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.10.14 04:57:00 - [5] 1) The Falcon is the LORD your God, and you shall have no other gods before Me. 2) Thou shalt fit a MWD on every non-capital PvP ship. 3) Thou shalt fly Amarr or Caldari. 4) Thou shalt fit 3x damage mods and the largest possible guns. 5) Thou shalt passive buffer tank. 6) Thou shalt not give up gank to gain tank. 7) Thou shalt not forget that PvP may happen anywhere between 0-250km. 8) Thou shalt not ignore your drone bay, even on Caldari ships. 9) Thou shalt not fly the assault frigate, stealth bomber, T1 frigate or T1 cruiser, for they are an abomination before God. 10) Thou shalt give Merin all of thy ISK.
xxWhistler Lucian Alliance Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.14 05:12:00 - [6] While I do respect Merin as a frequent poster and agree with a lot of the points he makes on the forums, I have to disagree with the bit about t1 cruisers. As a low SP player, you can definitely make a difference in a t1 cruiser, primarily because you won't be primaried. 11. Respect the fact that 1v1 does not exist (at least in 0.0 - I don't live or operate in low sec and can't comment on conditions there)
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.14 05:15:00 - [7] Originally by: xxWhistler While I do respect Merin as a frequent poster and agree with a lot of the points he makes on the forums, I have to disagree with the bit about t1 cruisers. As a low SP player, you can definitely make a difference in a t1 cruiser, primarily because you won't be primaried. 11. Respect the fact that 1v1 does not exist (at least in 0.0 - I don't live or operate in low sec and can't comment on conditions there) 1v1 Exists in lowsec. Much of the time it's 1 pirate versus one clueless noob but from time to time there are legitimate 1v1 battles. For the most part though, lowsec is just a differnt place to get ganked.
Last Wolf Umbra Wing	Posted - 2008.10.14 05:17:00 - [8] Edited by: Last Wolf on 14/10/2008 05:18:39 I think Merin was sarcasm... or at least I hope so. I don't agree with any of her points. In fact, I'm sure there are plenty of people that could rip them apart and post detailed and lengthy posts on WHY her points suck... I would, But I'm lazy. And Its past my bed time (YAY for 8:00am tests!) /me grumbles something about staying up too late pressing F5 outta boredom. Edit, I agree with points 7 and 8. __________________________________________________________ Originally by: Liang Nuren wrong forum isroy i am vjery drunm
Vina Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.10.14 05:23:00 - [9] Originally by: Last Wolf Edited by: Last Wolf on 14/10/2008 05:18:39 I think Merin was sarcasm... or at least I hope so. I don't agree with any of her points. In fact, I'm sure there are plenty of people that could rip them apart and post detailed and lengthy posts on WHY her points suck... I would, But I'm lazy. And Its past my bed time (YAY for 8:00am tests!) /me grumbles something about staying up too late pressing F5 outta boredom. Edit, I agree with points 7 and 8. most of his points are pretty legit. passive buffer tanking is definately the way to go for most ships. ----------------------------------- my opinion is my own.
Last Wolf Umbra Wing	Posted - 2008.10.14 05:29:00 - [10] Edited by: Last Wolf on 14/10/2008 05:29:26 I can think of two very popular setups that break rules numbers 3, 4, 6 and 9. Thorax with light nuetrons and 1600mm plate Ruppy with 1600mm plate. __________________________________________________________ Originally by: Liang Nuren wrong forum isroy i am vjery drunm
xxWhistler Lucian Alliance Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.14 05:34:00 - [11] Edited by: xxWhistler on 14/10/2008 05:35:44 Thorax with light neutrons is a 1v1 setup. If you want to maximize your utility to your gang (while recognizing that your t1 cruiser is in a word, expendable) you will fit it with its bonused medium weapons and a buffer tank. Again I have to admit that this is a gang warfare perspective - obviously - but to me, a t1 cruiser is not about survivability. If you really want the ship to last then a t1 cruiser is not what you ought to be flying.
Rhatar Khurin Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.10.14 05:56:00 - [12] Edited by: Rhatar Khurin on 14/10/2008 05:57:36 Edited by: Rhatar Khurin on 14/10/2008 05:57:08 Originally by: Merin Ryskin 1) The Falcon is the LORD your God, and you shall have no other gods before Me. (er no) 2) Thou shalt fit a MWD on every non-capital PvP ship. 3) Thou shalt fly Amarr or Caldari. (lol) 4) Thou shalt fit 3x damage mods and the largest possible guns. (umm..) 5) Thou shalt passive buffer tank. (yer right) 6) Thou shalt not give up gank to gain tank. (depends) 7) Thou shalt not forget that PvP may happen anywhere between 0-250km. 8) Thou shalt not ignore your drone bay, even on Caldari ships. 9) Thou shalt not fly the assault frigate, stealth bomber, T1 frigate or T1 cruiser, for they are an abomination before God. (shut up) 10) Thou shalt give Merin all of thy ISK. I hope you're trolling, seriously
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.10.14 06:00:00 - [13] Originally by: Last Wolf Thorax with light nuetrons and 1600mm plate It was barely good in 2006, and it sure isn't any better in 2008. Even if for some bizarre reason you need to fit a 1600mm plate, the 1600mm plate/medium electron setup is infinitely better. Quote: Ruppy with 1600mm plate. It's a Rupture. Enough said. Originally by: Last Wolf Edited by: Last Wolf on 14/10/2008 05:18:39 I think Merin was sarcasm... or at least I hope so. I don't agree with any of her points. In fact, I'm sure there are plenty of people that could rip them apart and post detailed and lengthy posts on WHY her points suck... I would, But I'm lazy. And Its past my bed time (YAY for 8:00am tests!) Then please do. I could use a little humor tonight! Originally by: Rhatar Khurin I hope you're trolling, seriously Well, I guess #10 wasn't entirely serious. But everything else on that list is a basic rule of PvP. Ignore it at your own risk.
Rhatar Khurin Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.10.14 06:09:00 - [14] Thou shalt passive buffer tank? Do you mean buffer OR passive tank? Largest guns are not always the best. Fecks up your grid sometimes and worse tracking, and if you're talking about a domi then nonononono. AFs are getting a boost, T1 cruisers have always rocked, same with stealth bombers.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.10.14 06:19:00 - [15] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 14/10/2008 06:22:12 Originally by: Rhatar Khurin Thou shalt passive buffer tank? Do you mean buffer OR passive tank? No, I mean passive buffer. Passive, as in no active repair modules, and buffer, as in pure EHP, not passive regen like a carebear Drake. Slightly redundant, maybe, but it helps to avoid confusion with the passive carebear ships. Quote: Largest guns are not always the best. Fecks up your grid sometimes and worse tracking, and if you're talking about a domi then nonononono. Obviously the Dominix (and other drone boats) are the exception, as their primary weapon is their drones. Use a little common sense here? Quote: AFs are getting a boost A boost from complete trash to just mediocre and overpriced. Which isn't so hard, since the only place they could possibly go is up. However, the changes released so far do not do enough to make them useful ships. Quote: T1 cruisers have always rocked Not since tier-2 BCs were released and invention brought HACs down to a sane price, finally giving us a choice besides the complete trash of the Prophecy/Ferox/Cyclone or an insanely expensive 300 million ISK HAC. The only T1 cruisers even remotely worth flying (unless you're a hopeless newbie) now are the ewar cruisers, and only until you can get a recon. Quote: same with stealth bombers. "Stealth" bombers are trash, and will remain trash until either bombs get a major cost reduction, or bombers get the covert ops cloak.
Theron Gyrow Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.10.14 06:38:00 - [16] My turn to ravage the English language: 1) Thou shalt know what thou wanteth to do with thy ship and fit it accordingly. 2) Thou shalt know what thy ship can and cannot do and fly it accordingly. 3) Thou shalt not mix tanks. Tank either thy shield or thy armor (but never forget to consider fitting a damage control). 4) Thou shalt not active tank in serious PvP; learn to remote-rep. 5) Thou shalt not mix short and long range weaponry, for doing so makes thee suck at any range. 6) Thou shalt fit an MWD to every non-capital PvP ship you fit with the exception of some logistics ships and battle-industrials. 7) Thou shalt remember that gank helps thee in every combat, tank only when thou art shot at. 8) Thou shalt always fit a point if thou art planning to fight within scram range. 9) Thou shalt use ECM drones if drones aren't your main damage source, for they are OP. 10) Thou shalt break any rule in this list when thee needs to if thou really knoweth better. If thou just thinketh thou doth, thou doth not. -- Gradient forum
Rhatar Khurin Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.10.14 06:41:00 - [17] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Quote: T1 cruisers have always rocked Not since tier-2 BCs were released and invention brought HACs down to a sane price, finally giving us a choice besides the complete trash of the Prophecy/Ferox/Cyclone or an insanely expensive 300 million ISK HAC. The only T1 cruisers even remotely worth flying (unless you're a hopeless newbie) now are the ewar cruisers, and only until you can get a recon. So you're saying that Thorax, Rupture, Arbitrator (to a lesser extent the caracal or moa) are worthless in pvp?
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.10.14 06:45:00 - [18] Originally by: Rhatar Khurin So you're saying that Thorax, Rupture, Arbitrator (to a lesser extent the caracal or moa) are worthless in pvp? That's exactly what I'm saying, with the exception of the Arbitrator (it's an ewar cruiser). The only reason to ever fly a Thorax, Rupture, Caracal or Moa in PvP is if you're a newbie who doesn't have the skills/ISK to fly anything better. And in that case, you're pretty much worthless in PvP anyway. The only way those ships are at all "useful" is in the "better than staying docked" sense, in which any non-zero dps is "useful". But I think both of us have a little common sense and know we aren't talking about being useful on the same level that a BattleBadger is "useful".
Esmenet	Posted - 2008.10.14 06:50:00 - [19] Originally by: Rhatar Khurin Originally by: Merin Ryskin Quote: T1 cruisers have always rocked Not since tier-2 BCs were released and invention brought HACs down to a sane price, finally giving us a choice besides the complete trash of the Prophecy/Ferox/Cyclone or an insanely expensive 300 million ISK HAC. The only T1 cruisers even remotely worth flying (unless you're a hopeless newbie) now are the ewar cruisers, and only until you can get a recon. So you're saying that Thorax, Rupture, Arbitrator (to a lesser extent the caracal or moa) are worthless in pvp? If you can fly either of those you can fly a battlecruiser and be more useful.
abrasive soap HOMELESS. Elitist Cowards	Posted - 2008.10.14 07:03:00 - [20] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Rhatar Khurin So you're saying that Thorax, Rupture, Arbitrator (to a lesser extent the caracal or moa) are worthless in pvp? That's exactly what I'm saying, with the exception of the Arbitrator (it's an ewar cruiser). The only reason to ever fly a Thorax, Rupture, Caracal or Moa in PvP is if you're a newbie who doesn't have the skills/ISK to fly anything better. And in that case, you're pretty much worthless in PvP anyway. The only way those ships are at all "useful" is in the "better than staying docked" sense, in which any non-zero dps is "useful". But I think both of us have a little common sense and know we aren't talking about being useful on the same level that a BattleBadger is "useful". Caracal is actually useful for anti-interceptor stuff if you fit assault launchers with precision lights. Thorax is a decent heavy tackler but that's about the only advantage it has over the brutix. Vexor is somewhat useful for dps (700+ in gank fit)/drone support i.e. warrior 2 deployment (although its dps is destroyable). The ewar cruisers are useful, and the logistics cruisers are semi useful (surprisingly, they work well as cap booster haulers/noob logistics). Of course, the t2 versions of these ships pretty much outclass these ones in every way except price (you would never gank fit an ishtar for example, nor would you use a guardian just to haul cap boosters.)
Shereza	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:14:00 - [21] Originally by: Merin Ryskin 2) Thou shalt fit a MWD on every non-capital PvP ship. Heh. Originally by: Merin Ryskin 3) Thou shalt fly Amarr or Caldari. /me giggles. Originally by: Merin Ryskin 4) Thou shalt fit 3x damage mods and the largest possible guns. [Abaddon, Max Grid] Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] 6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I, EMP XL [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Ancillary Current Router I Ancillary Current Router I Ancillary Current Router I Originally by: Merin Ryskin 5) Thou shalt passive buffer tank. [Damnation, L5 - Armor Buffer] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Armored Warfare Link - Passive Defence [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Trimark Armor Pump II Trimark Armor Pump II 712k EHP, almost 86k raw armor. Originally by: Merin Ryskin 6) Thou shalt not give up gank to gain tank. /me glances up. Oops. Originally by: Merin Ryskin 7) Thou shalt not forget that PvP may happen anywhere between 0-250km. But it's much more likely to not happen in the middle of that range by all accounts. Originally by: Merin Ryskin 8) Thou shalt not ignore your drone bay, even on Caldari ships. Unless you're flying any Caldari T2 cruiser except the basilisk (logistics), T2 frigate, half the T1 frigates, or the blackbird. Well, if you fly them I suppose you shouldn't ignore the 0m3 space in them when you post on the forums asking to actually have drone space on them but you might as well ignore them while you play so you don't get acid reflux. Originally by: Merin Ryskin 9) Thou shalt not fly the assault frigate, stealth bomber, T1 frigate or T1 cruiser, for they are an abomination before God. I've done missions in the caracal and moa, gone 0.0 mining in an osprey (and I even used it to provie in-mission support to corp. mates), do 1/10 complexes and L1 missions in my ishkur, went ratting in 0.0 in my nemesis, and had fun. Glad you didn't mention destroyers. Of course I tanked 4-6 angel battleships and 2-3 angel frigates in AE4 in a cormorant once so I like destroyers too. Originally by: Merin Ryskin 10) Thou shalt give Merin all of thy ISK. Um... I like owe a guy 220m isk and I've maybe a third of that. I could offer you some cookie crumbs and belly-button lint, but the crumbs are probably overly moist and the lint overly dry. ____________________ Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval.
Crellion Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:56:00 - [22] Originally by: Merin Ryskin 1) The Falcon is the LORD your God, and you shall have no other gods before Me. 2) Thou shalt fit a MWD on every non-capital PvP ship. 3) Thou shalt fly Amarr or Caldari. 4) Thou shalt fit 3x damage mods and the largest possible guns. 5) Thou shalt passive buffer tank. 6) Thou shalt not give up gank to gain tank. 7) Thou shalt not forget that PvP may happen anywhere between 0-250km. 8) Thou shalt not ignore your drone bay, even on Caldari ships. 9) Thou shalt not fly the assault frigate, stealth bomber, T1 frigate or T1 cruiser, for they are an abomination before God. 10) Thou shalt give Merin all of thy ISK. Actually I will give thy some of my isk for this post :D Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:43:00 - [23] T1 cruisers are good for: (a) Leeroy gangs. (b) Killing and humiliating T2 cruiser pilots with high skilled+implanted T1 cruisers (being Garmon). (c) Killing other T1 cruisers (duh) / AFs / etc on the cheap. (d) Blackbird, because you didn't train Cruiser V / Recon ships yet to use a Falcon. The fact HACs do better at (b) and (c) means little given how low-sec soloing often requires the active cooperation of your victim (read: him thinking he can take you), and HACs tend to scare targets away as if they were ****ing on electrified wire. Unless, of course, you run into someone in a, say, BC, sitting there in a easily scannable position and peacefully ratting in top belt with drones out Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2008.10.14 11:21:00 - [24] Quote: The fact HACs do better at (b) and (c) means little given how low-sec soloing often requires the active cooperation of your victim (read: him thinking he can take you), and HACs tend to scare targets away as if they were ****ing on electrified wire. The importance of this cannot be overstated.
Corwain Gallente DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2008.10.14 12:40:00 - [25] Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: Rhatar Khurin Originally by: Merin Ryskin Quote: T1 cruisers have always rocked Not since tier-2 BCs were released and invention brought HACs down to a sane price, finally giving us a choice besides the complete trash of the Prophecy/Ferox/Cyclone or an insanely expensive 300 million ISK HAC. The only T1 cruisers even remotely worth flying (unless you're a hopeless newbie) now are the ewar cruisers, and only until you can get a recon. So you're saying that Thorax, Rupture, Arbitrator (to a lesser extent the caracal or moa) are worthless in pvp? If you can fly either of those you can fly a battlecruiser do nearly the same damage and be much slower. That's more like it! Alley oop! -- Distortion\| Distortion 2 Preview
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.14 12:47:00 - [26] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 14/10/2008 12:48:07 Originally by: Corwain If you can fly either of those you can fly a battlecruiser do nearly the same damage and be much slower. Idk. Competently setup (and top skilled of course) Harbringer/Myrmidon/Brutix/Hurricane do about 750+ DPS max, competently setup Drake about 650 DPS. Try as I might, I cannot get a T1 cruiser to even come close to matching it's BC counterpart. Do you have any clue what you're talking about? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Corwain Gallente DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2008.10.14 12:50:00 - [27] I can do about 600dps with a Thorax mate. Less effective HP, but much much faster. -- Distortion\| Distortion 2 Preview
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.14 12:53:00 - [28] Originally by: Corwain I can do about 600dps with a Thorax mate. Less effective HP, but much much faster. Myrmidon does about 800-ish without too much hassle, and while having about 46K EHP to boot. In the end, BCs win when it comes to DPS and EHP, cruisers are merely cheaper and somewhat faster. The real win point about BCs is that they give you a much wider target selection on the whole then cruisers. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Corwain Gallente DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2008.10.14 13:17:00 - [29] In a gang fight nowadays if you're getting shot you're gonna die in seconds anyways. -- Distortion\| Distortion 2 Preview
Esmenet	Posted - 2008.10.14 13:20:00 - [30] Originally by: Corwain In a gang fight nowadays if you're getting shot you're gonna die in seconds anyways. Thats only if you are : - In a big blob fight - Flying a blaster ship - Doing it wrong.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.14 13:20:00 - [31] Originally by: Corwain In a gang fight nowadays if you're getting shot you're gonna die in seconds anyways. You know that's a non-argument. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Corwain Gallente DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2008.10.14 13:24:00 - [32] Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: Corwain In a gang fight nowadays if you're getting shot you're gonna die in seconds anyways. Thats only if you are : - In a big blob fight - Flying a blaster ship - Doing it wrong. If you consider a big blob fight to be more than 5 people. Okay, so you have a small gang, say...7 thorax 3 blackbird. All the ships have a MWD so can run around at about 1600m/s assuming good skills. (That's ~50% faster than a gang of Brutix can MWD btw) So they each do 650dps (I belive that's what the last Thorax setup I flew did.) So each thorax does about as much damage as half a Neutron 'Thron. Now, how fast do you think ANYTHING's gonna last with 3 Neutron throns shooting it at their optimal? From experience I can tell you, unless you're a capital you can measure your lifespan is SECONDS. -- Distortion\| Distortion 2 Preview
Esmenet	Posted - 2008.10.14 13:32:00 - [33] Originally by: Corwain Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: Corwain In a gang fight nowadays if you're getting shot you're gonna die in seconds anyways. Thats only if you are : - In a big blob fight - Flying a blaster ship - Doing it wrong. If you consider a big blob fight to be more than 5 people. Okay, so you have a small gang, say...7 thorax 3 blackbird. All the ships have a MWD so can run around at about 1600m/s assuming good skills. (That's ~50% faster than a gang of Brutix can MWD btw) So they each do 650dps (I belive that's what the last Thorax setup I flew did.) So each thorax does about as much damage as half a Neutron 'Thron. Now, how fast do you think ANYTHING's gonna last with 3 Neutron throns shooting it at their optimal? From experience I can tell you, unless you're a capital you can measure your lifespan is SECONDS. So is it 5 or 10 people? Make up your mind perhaps? In a gangfight many of those thoraxes would be webbed, perhaps jammed. You would never get "instahit" by all of them. If they are all gankfit its likely they would start to pop pretty quickly too. Its not hard to survive such a gang through various mechanics such as rr-reps, jumping through a gate, docking etc.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.14 13:48:00 - [34] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 14/10/2008 13:48:55 Originally by: Corwain If you consider a big blob fight to be more than 5 people. Okay, so you have a small gang, say...7 thorax 3 blackbird. All the ships have a MWD so can run around at about 1600m/s assuming good skills. (That's ~50% faster than a gang of Brutix can MWD btw) So they each do 650dps (I belive that's what the last Thorax setup I flew did.) So each thorax does about as much damage as half a Neutron 'Thron. Now, how fast do you think ANYTHING's gonna last with 3 Neutron throns shooting it at their optimal? From experience I can tell you, unless you're a capital you can measure your lifespan is SECONDS. (a) 10 people is not such a small gang. (b) Your Thoraxes take about 1-2 seconds to initiate fire on new primary / to get drones start hitting, provided all targets are clumped together at 0 and no hostile EW disabling parts of your DPS (which works much better for removing ships with high DPS and low EHP when considering mixed gangs). They deal combined DPS of 4500. It takes about 11-14 seconds per average BC to get a kill. (c) Let's assume your 7 Thorax + 3 BB gang are fighting 5 BCs + 3 blackbirds neutralizing your blackbirds. Let's (correctly) assume the average BC has 46.000 EHP and 800 DPS, while the Thorax has 16.000 EHP and 650 DPS. It means your gang of Thoraxes requires 11 seconds for the first kill (doing a combined 4550 DPS) - while the 5 BCs (doing a combined 4000 DPS) require 4 seconds (3+1 for drones/etc to respond) to score each kill. To give a run-down of what happens. T(0): Fighting commences. T(4): Thorax 1 explodes, BC 1 has 32.5K EHP left. T(8): Thorax 2 explodes, BC 1 has 16.9K EHP left. T(12): Thorax 3 explodes, BC 1 has 3.9K EHP left. T(13): BC 1 explodes, BCs start on Thorax 4, Thoraxes start on BC 2. T(18): Thorax 4 explodes, BC 2 has 35.6K EHP left. T(24): Thorax 5 explodes, BC 2 has 23.9K EHP left. T(30): Thorax 6 explodes, BC 2 has 16.1K EHP left. T(36): Thorax 7 explodes. Game over. BC 2 still has 12.2K EHP left. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Corwain Gallente DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2008.10.14 13:54:00 - [35] Yeah, except you're not accounting for why it's better to fly Thorax...your slow gang of BC with Ewar support would never in a thousand years catch my gang of Thorax w/ Ewar support, and if I was gonna engage your gang I'd bring an equal number of BS instead of cruisers. In which case I WOULD catch you cause you're just as slow as I am. Now, you wouldn't catch my gang of cruisers with your gang of BCs but we'd sure as hell jump on your BCs one by one as they got spread of since they're so slow. If you have a disciplined gang and don't spread out you'll just go even slower and be even LESS effective. I'm done being trolled here, have a nice day. -- Distortion\| Distortion 2 Preview
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.14 14:00:00 - [36] Originally by: Corwain and if I was gonna engage your gang I'd bring an equal number of BS instead of cruisers. In which case I WOULD catch you cause you're just as slow as I am. Which means you'd never get a fight out of us, because there is no way you'll catch a BC gang with a BS gang unless you're flying failboat nano BS Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Rhatar Khurin Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.10.14 14:25:00 - [37] I know what you're saying, but you can't just rule out cruisers being viable like that. (i'm sure Garmon would also disagree) Fine, their purpose in a gang could be more effective mostly in a BC. But i'd still fly a thorax over a brutix anyday.
August Guns Minmatar Infinite ISK	Posted - 2008.10.14 16:36:00 - [38] There aren't 10 PVP commandmants, there are 2. 1- Thou shalt fit a MWD 2- YOU HAD BETTER FIT A DAMNED MWD August Guns
Shereza	Posted - 2008.10.14 16:41:00 - [39] Originally by: August Guns There aren't 10 PVP commandmants, there are 2. 1- Thou shalt fit a MWD 2- YOU HAD BETTER FIT A DAMNED MWD Gonna be so nice if/when the nano-nerf helps people to stop believing that that's true. ____________________ Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval.
Esmenet	Posted - 2008.10.14 16:45:00 - [40] Originally by: Shereza Originally by: August Guns There aren't 10 PVP commandmants, there are 2. 1- Thou shalt fit a MWD 2- YOU HAD BETTER FIT A DAMNED MWD Gonna be so nice if/when the nano-nerf helps people to stop believing that that's true. It will be just as true after the nano nerf. If you dont understand this you dont understand why pvp ships always fit one now.
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.14 17:21:00 - [41] 10 Ship Fit Commandments 1. Weapon Upgrades 1 2. Weapon Upgrades 2 3. Weapon Upgrades 3 4. Weapon Upgrades 4 5. Weapon Upgrades 5 6. Advanced Weapon Upgrades 1 7. Advanced Weapon Upgrades 2 8. Advanced Weapon Upgrades 3 9. Advanced Weapon Upgrades 4 10.Advanced Weapon Upgrades 5
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.10.14 17:36:00 - [42] Originally by: Soporo 10 Ship Fit Commandments 1. Weapon Upgrades 1 2. Weapon Upgrades 2 3. Weapon Upgrades 3 4. Weapon Upgrades 4 5. Weapon Upgrades 5 6. Advanced Weapon Upgrades 1 7. Advanced Weapon Upgrades 2 8. Advanced Weapon Upgrades 3 9. Advanced Weapon Upgrades 4 10.Advanced Weapon Upgrades 5 I protest your lack of Energy Sys Op 5, Energy Management 5, Electronics 5, and Engineering 5. There's more, but I'm lazy. -Liang --
Shereza	Posted - 2008.10.14 17:48:00 - [43] Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: Shereza Originally by: August Guns There aren't 10 PVP commandmants, there are 2. 1- Thou shalt fit a MWD 2- YOU HAD BETTER FIT A DAMNED MWD Gonna be so nice if/when the nano-nerf helps people to stop believing that that's true. It will be just as true after the nano nerf. If you dont understand this you dont understand why pvp ships always fit one now. Well see, that's the thing. People who can't fit one PvP. People who don't fit one PvP. People who fly ships/setups that can't support one PvP. All of these people who PvP and not all of them are "comedy killmails," except perhaps you apply that term to the people they kill. So while I understand why people think that MWDs should be on every PvP ship what I don't understand is their patent refusal to accept the reality that there are exceptions to that rule, exceptions that are not always flukes or random chance. Of course I'm the sort of person who'd fit an over-sized afterburner on some ships instead of an MWD just to get nearly the same speed boost without the cap penalty or the signature radius penalty. ____________________ Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval.
Mortuus Minmatar Fat J Elitist Cowards	Posted - 2008.10.14 18:35:00 - [44] The only things you have to worry about are: Knowing what your ship is capable of, keep the optimal situation as long as possible, and not letting your enemy get into a position advantageous to them. As for specific fits, it depends on what you want to do and how you want to fly. T1 Cruisers, Destroyers and Frigates can all be effective, for much less money than T2 ships. Maybe not as effective but much more cost efficient. T2 Frigates have jobs that can generally be done better by something else if all you think about is damage and tank. Don't think only in terms of damage and tank. Mobility and size have a lot to do with a battle. That Blasterthron may have a massive tank, and huge DPS, but its not going to hit a pair of AFs taht have it webbed down and are orbiting at 500m. Occassus Republica <3
NeoTheo Dark Materials	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:08:00 - [45] thout shall find a TWD fit and use it, well thats mine anyhow. Dark Materials Linkage
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:13:00 - [46] Originally by: Theron Gyrow My turn to ravage the English language: 1) Thou shalt know what thou wanteth to do with thy ship and fit it accordingly. 2) Thou shalt know what thy ship can and cannot do and fly it accordingly. 3) Thou shalt not mix tanks. Tank either thy shield or thy armor (but never forget to consider fitting a damage control). 4) Thou shalt not active tank in serious PvP; learn to remote-rep. 5) Thou shalt not mix short and long range weaponry, for doing so makes thee suck at any range. 6) Thou shalt fit an MWD to every non-capital PvP ship you fit with the exception of some logistics ships and battle-industrials. 7) Thou shalt remember that gank helps thee in every combat, tank only when thou art shot at. 8) Thou shalt always fit a point if thou art planning to fight within scram range. 9) Thou shalt use ECM drones if drones aren't your main damage source, for they are OP. 10) Thou shalt break any rule in this list when thee needs to if thou really knoweth better. If thou just thinketh thou doth, thou doth not. Hey, this was pretty damned good, actually _ Alternate resist display \|\| Mission reward revamp \|\| better nanofix
Vathar The Wings of Maak	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:17:00 - [47] I agree with most commandments posted here, but it won't help you the least bit if you don't know the reason why said pilot has deemed it fit to become one of his. If you actually know the rationale behind these, you know in which situation it might be interesting to break them to achieve the desired result. Break too many commandments at the same time and you get a flying piece of garbage. Breaking these rules remind me of ol' Jack sparrow - This is either madness... or brilliance. - It's remarkable how often those two traits coincide.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:22:00 - [48] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Theron Gyrow My turn to ravage the English language: 1) Thou shalt know what thou wanteth to do with thy ship and fit it accordingly. 2) Thou shalt know what thy ship can and cannot do and fly it accordingly. 3) Thou shalt not mix tanks. Tank either thy shield or thy armor (but never forget to consider fitting a damage control). 4) Thou shalt not active tank in serious PvP; learn to remote-rep. 5) Thou shalt not mix short and long range weaponry, for doing so makes thee suck at any range. 6) Thou shalt fit an MWD to every non-capital PvP ship you fit with the exception of some logistics ships and battle-industrials. 7) Thou shalt remember that gank helps thee in every combat, tank only when thou art shot at. 8) Thou shalt always fit a point if thou art planning to fight within scram range. 9) Thou shalt use ECM drones if drones aren't your main damage source, for they are OP. 10) Thou shalt break any rule in this list when thee needs to if thou really knoweth better. If thou just thinketh thou doth, thou doth not. Hey, this was pretty damned good, actually Yeah, it is. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Salpad Caldari Carebears with Attitude	Posted - 2008.10.14 20:47:00 - [49] Originally by: Derek Sigres 1) DPS wins the battle - tank only staves off defeat The fourth type of defence, after active shield tanking, passive shield tanking, and armour tanking: Active ganking. Kill them before they do unto you. Certainly when it comes to flying level 3s in my Drake, I've learned that spending a couple of LOW slots on BCS II modules is always worthwhile. It is easy to end up in the "too much tank"-land. -- Salpad
Felix Dzerzhinsky Caldari Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.10.15 01:39:00 - [50] 1) thou shall not mix active and passive forms of tanking and cap-regeneration. 2) thou shall not mix different forms of tanking. 3) thou shall not mix wepon systems unless the slots force it. 4) thou shall read the bonus' of the ships and fit them accordingly 5) don't be afraid to die ---- ECCM is a Counter-measure not a defense.
Megan Maynard Minmatar 17th Minmatar Tactical Wing	Posted - 2008.10.15 01:50:00 - [51] Originally by: Merin Ryskin 9) Thou shalt not fly the assault frigate, stealth bomber, T1 frigate or T1 cruiser, for they are an abomination before God. Utter bull shit, and you know it. 2nd only to the BS the t1 cruiser is the most cost effective weapons platform IN THE GAME. Ask any BS pilots if they want to fight 3 decent cruiser pilots. If you still don't understand this come to curse space some time.
Mr Ignitious Gallente R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2008.10.15 01:53:00 - [52] Originally by: xxWhistler Edited by: xxWhistler on 14/10/2008 05:19:27 Edited by: xxWhistler on 14/10/2008 05:16:19 While I do respect Merin as a frequent (and frequently correct) poster and agree with a lot of the points he makes on the forums, I have to disagree with the bit about t1 cruisers. As a low SP player, you can definitely make a difference in a t1 cruiser, primarily because you won't be primaried. 11. Respect the fact that 1v1 does not exist (at least in 0.0 - I don't live or operate in low sec and can't comment on conditions there) 12. Thou shalt not despair over the FOTM, thou shalt adapt to it. 13. When thy fitting is overcome thou shalt not despair, rather first consider how it could have been better utilized and then ponder how it could have been altered to conquer your adversary. evidence of this, the mightiest t1 cruiser of all: THE BLACKBIRD, AKA:BABY FALCON AKA: (this merin's reference) THE SWEET LORDS BABY JESUS. waaaay in second, is the rupture, but its still gross(ly powerful for a t1 cruiser) and a close third i'd say goes to thorax.
Megan Maynard Minmatar 17th Minmatar Tactical Wing	Posted - 2008.10.15 01:55:00 - [53] Originally by: Mr Ignitious Originally by: xxWhistler Edited by: xxWhistler on 14/10/2008 05:19:27 Edited by: xxWhistler on 14/10/2008 05:16:19 While I do respect Merin as a frequent (and frequently correct) poster and agree with a lot of the points he makes on the forums, I have to disagree with the bit about t1 cruisers. As a low SP player, you can definitely make a difference in a t1 cruiser, primarily because you won't be primaried. 11. Respect the fact that 1v1 does not exist (at least in 0.0 - I don't live or operate in low sec and can't comment on conditions there) 12. Thou shalt not despair over the FOTM, thou shalt adapt to it. 13. When thy fitting is overcome thou shalt not despair, rather first consider how it could have been better utilized and then ponder how it could have been altered to conquer your adversary. evidence of this, the mightiest t1 cruiser of all: THE BLACKBIRD, AKA:BABY FALCON AKA: (this merin's reference) THE SWEET LORDS BABY JESUS. waaaay in second, is the rupture, but its still gross(ly powerful for a t1 cruiser) and a close third i'd say goes to thorax. 3rd has to be the stabber, thorax is a joke PG wise.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.15 04:26:00 - [54] Originally by: Corwain So each thorax does about as much damage as half a Neutron 'Thron. Now, how fast do you think ANYTHING's gonna last with 3 Neutron throns shooting it at their optimal? From experience I can tell you, unless you're a capital you can measure your lifespan is SECONDS. If you consider the standard pvp battleship has between 75 - 140k EHP and each thron will reliably (i.e. without overheating) deliver about 1200 dps or so. This means you're delivering 3600 DPS giving you a lifespan between approximately 20 and 40 seconds. Yep, it's a measurement in seconds alright - but usually when I'm given a time approximation of "seconds" I tend to think in terms of less than 10 seconds. But, three blasterthrons is really a worst case scenario because at that point there is nothing you can do to save yourself, even if you have friends handy. Luckily, it's rare that you have 3 blaster battleships all pounding on one battleship in optimal - at least in my experience. The reason is pretty simple - your heavy bruiser ships like the gank throns are almost one shot deals - they are purpose built to annihilate a single ship in the opposing gang as quickly as possible. After that, they are usually in deep armor damage, and if they don't have an injectory are dry on cap making them utterly worthless for at least a few minutes (and even with an injector it's unlikely a thron can really survive two slugfests with other short ranged battleships in short order). Basically, you tend to get 1 blaster boat per target unless you drastically outnumber the opposition. Then your various support ships back up the different blaster boats, and as blaster boats finish of thier targets they probably send their drones out ahead to help polish off the stragglers. Of course, if you are wanting to plan on worst case scenarios, the 3 BS scenario is hardly as bad as it can get. You could have 3 gank ships and a falcon murdering you all at once - then you don't even get the pleasure of scratchign ineffecively at a shield.
abrasive soap HOMELESS. Elitist Cowards	Posted - 2008.10.15 06:24:00 - [55] Originally by: Mr Ignitious Originally by: xxWhistler Edited by: xxWhistler on 14/10/2008 05:19:27 Edited by: xxWhistler on 14/10/2008 05:16:19 While I do respect Merin as a frequent (and frequently correct) poster and agree with a lot of the points he makes on the forums, I have to disagree with the bit about t1 cruisers. As a low SP player, you can definitely make a difference in a t1 cruiser, primarily because you won't be primaried. 11. Respect the fact that 1v1 does not exist (at least in 0.0 - I don't live or operate in low sec and can't comment on conditions there) 12. Thou shalt not despair over the FOTM, thou shalt adapt to it. 13. When thy fitting is overcome thou shalt not despair, rather first consider how it could have been better utilized and then ponder how it could have been altered to conquer your adversary. evidence of this, the mightiest t1 cruiser of all: THE BLACKBIRD, AKA:BABY FALCON AKA: (this merin's reference) THE SWEET LORDS BABY JESUS. waaaay in second, is the rupture, but its still gross(ly powerful for a t1 cruiser) and a close third i'd say goes to thorax. Why people like the rupture so much and neglect the vexor/thorax, I don't know. In terms of maximum dps, it goes vexor -> thorax -> rupture. In terms of dps with 1600 plate, it goes vexor -> thorax -> rupture. Blackbird wins in usefulness though.
Rajere Vicious Inc	Posted - 2008.10.15 06:42:00 - [56] cus eve isn't played in EFT? With any sort of sane fitting the vexor's DPS is middle of the pack at best. Vexor along with the thorax lack grid/fittings, and those builds aren't very viable. Thorax can out dps the rupture if pure gank fitted, but the thorax also melts to the rupture or even the moa. How to Fail at Eve
Vathar The Wings of Maak	Posted - 2008.10.15 17:36:00 - [57] Well, T1 cruisers have three things for them: - They can enter restricted FW areas easily, barring the most restrictive minor plexes. - They are dirt cheap, so easily "suicidable". - They don't scare people (which is something that one HAS to consider) If you want to capitalize over these facts, it makes sense to fly one. In all other cases, fly a HAC/recon if you have the skills.
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.10.15 20:17:00 - [58] Originally by: NeoTheo thout shall find a TWD fit and primary it, well thats mine anyhow. fixed that for you. The Real Ten Commandments of EVE pvp: You shall fit a MWD You shall not mix weapon systems You will bring a Falcon to every engagement You will train thermodynmics to IV and keep nanite paste in all ships holds at all times You shall use no other ammo than faction or t2 Respect your speed and transversal You shall not tank when it is possible to gank You shall always scout before travelling You shall not dual tank You shall not envy your enemies ship, nor envy his fit. All ships have a bane and that bane is their death. -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Norwood Franskly Minmatar Fleet of the Damned Dark Trinity Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.15 22:20:00 - [59] Originally by: Megan Maynard Utter bull shit, and you know it. 2nd only to the BS the t1 cruiser is the most cost effective weapons platform IN THE GAME. Ask any BS pilots if they want to fight 3 decent cruiser pilots. If you still don't understand this come to curse space some time. hmm last time I fought a T1 cruiser gang in curse (One of the corp that lived there was doing a suicide op if I recall) I remember my hurricane ripping through cruisers like hot butter, even killed a Cynabal, which is a fancy faction cruiser. I think they killed a absolution we jumped in ahead of the gang as bait though so they may have finished close iskwise, except we got all the loot . If I had a choice between 5 T1 cruisers and 5 BCS or HACS in my gang I know what I'd take. I think Battlecruisers are much more cost effective then cruisers, you get some punch from them and they don't pop quite as quickly. That said a lot of the time you don't have a choice what ships people bring and as others have mentioned some dps is better then no dps...
Norwood Franskly Minmatar Fleet of the Damned Dark Trinity Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.15 22:20:00 - [60] Originally by: Megan Maynard Utter bull shit, and you know it. 2nd only to the BS the t1 cruiser is the most cost effective weapons platform IN THE GAME. Ask any BS pilots if they want to fight 3 decent cruiser pilots. If you still don't understand this come to curse space some time. hmm last time I fought a T1 cruiser gang in curse (One of the corp that lived there was doing a suicide op if I recall) I remember my hurricane ripping through cruisers like hot butter, even killed a Cynabal, which is a fancy faction cruiser. I think they killed a absolution we jumped in ahead of the gang as bait though so they may have finished close iskwise, except we got all the loot . If I had a choice between 5 T1 cruisers and 5 BCS or HACS in my gang I know what I'd take. I think Battlecruisers are much more cost effective then cruisers, you get some punch from them and they don't pop quite as quickly. That said a lot of the time you don't have a choice what ships people bring and as others have mentioned some dps is better then no dps...
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.10.15 22:53:00 - [61] Edited by: Haradgrim on 15/10/2008 22:55:19 there are a couple of really effective t1 cruisers (i.e. Thorax, Blackbird, etc) but the truth is cost effectiveness only matters if you die, I'd say a HAC is more likely to get a greater quantity of kills in its lifetime than a t1 cruiser.... edit: when I say cost effectiveness doesn't matter, what I mean is; most people flying t2 cruisers, recons, etc can afford to lose them, and in most cases they'd rather have a more powerful ship given the opportunity. As a result if you are flying t1 cruisers, your choices are; outnumber your enemies or be outclassed.... -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.10.15 22:53:00 - [62] Edited by: Haradgrim on 15/10/2008 22:55:19 there are a couple of really effective t1 cruisers (i.e. Thorax, Blackbird, etc) but the truth is cost effectiveness only matters if you die, I'd say a HAC is more likely to get a greater quantity of kills in its lifetime than a t1 cruiser.... edit: when I say cost effectiveness doesn't matter, what I mean is; most people flying t2 cruisers, recons, etc can afford to lose them, and in most cases they'd rather have a more powerful ship given the opportunity. As a result if you are flying t1 cruisers, your choices are; outnumber your enemies or be outclassed.... -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Kailiao MisInterpreted Teddy Bears	Posted - 2008.10.16 00:48:00 - [63] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Theron Gyrow My turn to ravage the English language: 1) Thou shalt know what thou wanteth to do with thy ship and fit it accordingly. 2) Thou shalt know what thy ship can and cannot do and fly it accordingly. 3) Thou shalt not mix tanks. Tank either thy shield or thy armor (but never forget to consider fitting a damage control). 4) Thou shalt not active tank in serious PvP; learn to remote-rep. 5) Thou shalt not mix short and long range weaponry, for doing so makes thee suck at any range. 6) Thou shalt fit an MWD to every non-capital PvP ship you fit with the exception of some logistics ships and battle-industrials. 7) Thou shalt remember that gank helps thee in every combat, tank only when thou art shot at. 8) Thou shalt always fit a point if thou art planning to fight within scram range. 9) Thou shalt use ECM drones if drones aren't your main damage source, for they are OP. 10) Thou shalt break any rule in this list when thee needs to if thou really knoweth better. If thou just thinketh thou doth, thou doth not. Hey, this was pretty damned good, actually Yeah, it is. Pretty good xcept for a few things Number 4 is very wrong, active tanking is still king in %75 of fights, the outher %25 is a buffer, full gank squad will allways take a remote squad anyday of the week PERIOD. Number 6 is also wrong, and LOL after the nerf, i have yet in 4 years of low-sec and 0.0 pvp to lose to a nano ship, in anything i flew. NUFF SAID. Scramed and blobed is a diff story :) In short 1600+ kills, 600+ solo, 4 years of exp, not a single nano, warp stab, or ew mod used, and will fly that way till i quit.
General Paul Atomic Heroes	Posted - 2008.10.16 01:59:00 - [64] Not got 10 commandments but theres 1 I always fly by. 1.Never fly what you cant afford to lose. Its known as the golden rule I think and is there to encourage 5 week old chars from flying heavy missile loaded civilian shield boosted ravens and the like.
Shereza	Posted - 2008.10.16 04:43:00 - [65] Heh, the problem with the "never fly what you can't afford to lose" philosophy is that for some people, like me, losing even a frigate is painful. Not on the wallet, mind you, but in other ways. It's hard to play the game and follow a philosophy like that if you're that sort of person. That's probably why I suck at PvP. Although I am getting better about it. When I lost a salvage typhoon during a quick run to the bathroom I was annoyed, not despondant like when I lost my second 200m abaddon to CONCORD harassing my fire support alt. Losing my second astarte was much easier on my nerves than losing my first astarte. Who knows, maybe some day I'll be so numb to ship losses that I can actually bear to PvP, albeit not in my nightmare or machariel. ____________________ Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval.
goodby4u Valor Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.16 05:18:00 - [66] Originally by: Derek Sigres There are no commandments and there are no sure things in PvP. All you can really do is play the odds to give yourself the best possible chance of coming out on top in general. 1) DPS wins the battle - tank only staves off defeat 2) A buffer tank (where you maximize your EHP) is best for worst case scenario planning. 3) Know what you want your ship to do before you fit a single module 4) If you are going to sacrifice a module that furthers your assumed role, there had better be an INCREDIBLY good reason. 5) Know what your enemy can do, and try to keep him from doing it. 6) Always assume you're going to be pointed in the battle and realize there will be some fights you won't ever be able to run from. 7) Know what your ship can do - maximize it's utility by sticking as close to your optimal situation as possible, often truped by point 5. 8) Mobility is key - speed modules like AB and MWD probably won't give you an edge - they let you contest control of the battlespace. Always fit one or the other, and in general the MWD is your best chance of getting out alive. 9) Know the difference between a sure thing and a suicide run. Fit accordingly. 10) Never fly a ship you aren't prepared to lose the moment you undock. This
Rellana DAB G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.10.16 05:40:00 - [67] I'd have to disagree with this rule 5) Thou shalt passive buffer tank,as I active tank in my sacrilege a lot,with 2 t2 med armour reppers,the correct rigs and cap charges for my cap needs,mostly as bait with a larger gang waiting a few systems away to back me up..
BaneMaker JuBa Corp	Posted - 2008.10.17 10:26:00 - [68] Originally by: Haradgrim You shall not envy your enemies ship, nor envy his fit. All ships have a bane and that bane is their death. You called?
Doctor Mabuse	Posted - 2008.10.17 11:39:00 - [69] Originally by: Merin Ryskin The only T1 cruisers even remotely worth flying (unless you're a hopeless newbie) now are the ewar cruisers, and only until you can get a recon. Oh dear, someone hasn't been keeping ahead of the dev curve. T1 cruisers are essential in FW, and as they have stated that future 0.0 sovereignty mechanics will be based on the way occupancy is currently decided in FW, T1 cruisers will be essential in 0.0 as well... ------------------------------------ Who's trip-trapping on my bridge?
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.17 12:08:00 - [70] Originally by: Doctor Mabuse T1 cruisers are essential in FW, Are not. The plexes allowing T1 cruisers allow ceptors too. Originally by: Doctor Mabuse and as they have stated that future 0.0 sovereignty mechanics will be based on the way occupancy is currently decided in FW, T1 cruisers will be essential in 0.0 as well... Link or stfu? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.10.17 12:49:00 - [71] Originally by: Doctor Mabuse Originally by: Merin Ryskin The only T1 cruisers even remotely worth flying (unless you're a hopeless newbie) now are the ewar cruisers, and only until you can get a recon. Oh dear, someone hasn't been keeping ahead of the dev curve. T1 cruisers are essential in FW, and as they have stated that future 0.0 sovereignty mechanics will be based on the way occupancy is currently decided in FW, T1 cruisers will be essential in 0.0 as well... Oh dear, someone hasn't been keeping ahead of the player curve. Nobody ever runs those complexes. Pretend they don't even exist. FW is all about who can get the biggest blob to camp the Tama gate (with a few secondary gatecamp systems, for when Tama gets too laggy).
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.17 13:34:00 - [72] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 17/10/2008 13:35:01 Originally by: Merin Ryskin Oh dear, someone hasn't been keeping ahead of the player curve. Nobody ever runs those complexes. Pretend they don't even exist. Well, I occasionally get a victim or two that way. Although 80% of the time they're stabbed up or in a interceptor whizzing about and evading a fight at all costs. Some days ago I ended up chasing a PvP fit rail taranis in a AB jag (2/10 plex hunting setup, lol) who was defending a plex (so had rats on his side) and he ran away first time (a bit later, I tried getting him again and he actually dared to go for something which would, for any competent PvP-er, be a free killmail. He died.) Mostly see people running these in a bit out of the way systems however. I got some T2 fit T1 cruiser kills in Minmatar space camping the plexes. Originally by: Merin Ryskin FW is all about who can get the biggest blob to camp the Tama gate (with a few secondary gatecamp systems, for when Tama gets too laggy). You see shit all the way up to OMS. The whole pipe is just a big deathtrap, particularly for us flashy people. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Broegitte Bardot BINFORD Majesta Empire	Posted - 2008.10.17 14:23:00 - [73] Originally by: Merin Ryskin 1) The Falcon is the LORD your God, and you shall have no other gods before Me. 2) Thou shalt fit a MWD on every non-capital PvP ship. 3) Thou shalt fly Amarr or Caldari. 4) Thou shalt fit 3x damage mods and the largest possible guns. 5) Thou shalt passive buffer tank. 6) Thou shalt not give up gank to gain tank. 7) Thou shalt not forget that PvP may happen anywhere between 0-250km. 8) Thou shalt not ignore your drone bay, even on Caldari ships. 9) Thou shalt not fly the assault frigate, stealth bomber, T1 frigate or T1 cruiser, for they are an abomination before God. 10) Thou shalt give Merin all of thy ISK. this really, although i take joy in breaking as many of these commandments as possible and still be semi-successful aka Roemy Schneider (probably lacking game time again)

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