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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.24 23:05:00 - [31] Insanely stupid idea. How to gank anyone at any time: 1. Get a group of recons into a system at an off-hour. 2. Log out. 3. Login when you expect to find targets. 4. Scout belts with recons. 5. Wipe out any and all miners/ratters. 6. Profit 7. Whine as noone in their right mind rats or mines again in 0.0.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.24 23:07:00 - [32] Originally by: Seishomaru pff peopel as usuall blind to their own belly. Local nerf is not a boost to roamign and pirates and a nerf to ratters. Its balanced. Because the pirates also do not know that you are in local so they need more time to check whole dam system. That makes much easier to stay hidden and avoid them as well. More important a solo ship has a better chance of not being dectected than a giant blob. So this is a boost for small gangs against blobs! Finnaly This will be THE best and most important change ever. Incorrect. As a ganker I will know where my enemy is mining. It will be in that -1.0 system with the mercoxit, crokite, bistot roids. Same place where he is ratting.
Moostang DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.24 23:35:00 - [33] Edited by: Moostang on 24/10/2008 23:41:03 Edited by: Moostang on 24/10/2008 23:38:47 Originally by: Seishomaru pff peopel as usuall blind to their own belly. Local nerf is not a boost to roamign and pirates and a nerf to ratters. Its balanced. Because the pirates also do not know that you are in local so they need more time to check whole dam system. That makes much easier to stay hidden and avoid them as well. More important a solo ship has a better chance of not being dectected than a giant blob. So this is a boost for small gangs against blobs! Finnaly This will be THE best and most important change ever. This is a HUGE boost to roaming gangs. Roaming gangs KNOW exactly where people are making isk...in the BELTS. The people in the belts will be completely blind. Roaming gang simply needs a covert ops or recon to scout for them. Recon/Cov ops warps to a planet with alot of belts, scans, finds targets. This will simply cause a huge influx of people using cloak-while-warping ships to be used so they are invisible to all types of defence. Hell, you wont even know if friendlies are in system to help you. Where as the people making isk grind the scan button and never see anything. Where is the balance in that?!?!?!?! It's not there. Roaming gangs get plenty of kills right now. If you're in a roaming gang and cant get kills then you are the point of failure, not local. Keeping scouts on the gates just so you can mine/rat is an ignorant solution to the removal of local also especially when systems can have 4+ gates. What a waste of time and effort for 4 people to sit idling on 4 gates so one person can rat or mine.... And what about hostiles that log out in the system when no one is on the gates and logs back in the next day or so. 0 balance...this is a huge nerf to everyone in 0.0 that cannot keep the gates monitored 23/7.
Stretchmeat Crotchquake GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.24 23:48:00 - [34] Edited by: Stretchmeat Crotchquake on 24/10/2008 23:51:38 Edited by: Stretchmeat Crotchquake on 24/10/2008 23:48:30 Originally by: Good Sir Frankly, I beg to differ. Your ship always has an on board scanner. I highly suggest you learn how to use it. Good thing those gankers don't have probes that go a lot farther than the onboard scanner... I mean... good thing the warp-in range on them is bad, it's not like they can get a recon and... Well, good thing we know they're in the system so we can hide before they... Um... well, at least we can spot them on their way in and they can't completely evade defense gangs with cloaks on their way out... .... hmm.... (puts barge alt on eBay)
Lili Lu Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships	Posted - 2008.10.24 23:51:00 - [35] What is the goal though of all the proponents for removing local? If it's the hope of easy ganks and invasions on enemies, well that can happen to you too. And, if it creates too much risk in building in 0.0 noone will. Agreed, this could kill 0.0, or the servers, unless other automated mechanisms for intel were placed in the game. Hopefully ones involving sovereignty, so it would pay to invest infrastructure in 0.0 (and thus not be open to ISK-selling poachers). However, if it's anger over all the cloaked isk-selling achura-occupied ratting ravens, there are better ways to accomplish this. For instance, disallow cloaks on all _____ (cruiser?) or larger ships, except of course the black ops BS and recons. So, if you are an ISK-selling Raven you absolutely have to log out if you are not going to ss and possibly fight when you are probed out. Or you are gonna have to train those ISK-selling toons into specialized ships and have ratting efficiency reduced. Or you might see herds of ISK-sellers that cannot cloak or will not log-out their BS when the patrol shows up, but instead will fight for their opportunity to be extracting resources in an area. Now that would be fun. That would be what this game is about! Or make cloaks use fuel . . . etc Regardless, I'm sure there are many better ways to accomplish what people who advocate removing local really want.
Azuse Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.24 23:51:00 - [36] Catch 22. Risk vs. Reward model broken. The main draw of 0.0 is the isk making possible, this doesn't do anything to increase the appeal of 0.0 while drastically increasing the risk. Increase the ability to make isk by an equal proportion and it would be balanced e.g duble rat bounties/ores players stand to make far mroe isk/hr in 0.0 than empire however doing so would increase the odds of them loosing their ship drastically. As a pvper i welcome this, might not make killing easier but it sure makes dieing less frequent. As someone who has spent years holding space, and on occasion used it to make isk, i despise it. Why? well one it means the chances of loosing a ship are massively increased but the isk i'm making has not increased by equal proportion. Two, it means gangs will become mandatory so everyone can warp to everyone else when they get caught. It also means the "no talking in local" rules won't become common place, they'll become common-sense. Actually that brings me back to my first point, ganged player respond faster which actually makes killing and surviving harder. If the isk to be made in 0.0 increased it would work. If pvping was actually a viable career (ie made decent money rather than being a complete and total isk sink) it would work. Actually, why is it eve is the only mmo where when you want to pew pew you need a secondary income rather than it being your income?
Stretchmeat Crotchquake GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.24 23:53:00 - [37] Edited by: Stretchmeat Crotchquake on 24/10/2008 23:54:57 The problem with the "risk vs. reward" assumptions is that with the current lack of defensive intelligence mechanisms and the inability to locate cloaked ships, there is NO risk for gankers without local unless people are actively sitting on gates in friendly territory. Add gate alarms and cloak-penetrating scans and we'll talk. Hell, you want better ganking capacity, add cloak-penetrating scans anyway, and leave local alone.
Xaldarion	Posted - 2008.10.24 23:58:00 - [38] This is a horrible idea. You don't have to be a carebear to get frustrated quick in a universe owned by pirates. What kind of economy can survive that environment?
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2008.10.24 23:58:00 - [39] Originally by: 5n4keyes This is a bad bad feature, and heres why! From now on, to check local people will just keep hitting scan. Now I cant imagine how much server load a single scan would do, but i can imagine people pressing it atleast once every 30 seconds. Even 10,000 people doing this... thats 20,000 scans that didnt exist before now going to happen. I cant imagine at a time when were trying to lower the number of requests to the server, CCP are going to want to implement something thats going to undo peoples work! Something that would be a little more acceptable, is if local updates once every 1 minute, keeps the roamers happy, and would probably save on some server requests! Hearing that reasoning is the most reasonable thing I've heard all day. Get rid of local but only if they fix scanning.
Irie Alixyar	Posted - 2008.10.25 00:00:00 - [40] Down with Change!

Kara DaArmie DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.25 00:03:00 - [41] I agree that this is a bad move. Being able to look at local and tell who is there in an important part of 0.0 life. Also, several people in 0.0 solo mine high end minerals to build ships. With out all those solo miners prices are going to greatly increase. Solo 0.0 travel will also be harder. If this happens you will probabaly lose my 3 accounts.
Solomon XI Hoist The Colors. Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.10.25 00:08:00 - [42] Delayed mode is a bad idea, period. Allow me to offer a better suggestion: Local --> Constellation Subject To: On-Board Scanner & Probe Improvements
Galactic Overlord The Fantastically Pantless Sporkmen	Posted - 2008.10.25 00:16:00 - [43] The having to scan over and over and over is the worst idea of a solution. Does that add a ton of database calls to the server load? Is the scanner going to get a major overhaul so that the info in it is far more useful? I could maybe see a constellation level local in 0.0 instead of local, but that does no good if they are jumping into your system from a seperate constellation. Right now roaming gangs can fit for speed and hit anytime. The only way to combat that fully is to do boring guard duty 23/7, yeah that'll make the game a lot funner.
Poast Warrior Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.10.25 00:18:00 - [44] Yet another horrible idea and quite frankly encourages blobbing that much more. CCP will ruin this game with the current path they're on IMO.
Shard Merchant Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.25 00:33:00 - [45] If you think removing local in 0.0 is bad for the game, then you should pretty much keep your opinions on game design to yourself. This would be one of the best changes to ever happen. And mind you, it should've happened years ago when it became apparent local was a huge issue. I for one, am looking forward to new danger and tactical warfare.
Dominic Raynor	Posted - 2008.10.25 00:33:00 - [46] Originally by: Poast Warrior Yet another horrible idea and quite frankly encourages blobbing that much more. Everything that people don't like "encourages blobbing" apparently...
Shard Merchant Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.25 00:34:00 - [47] Originally by: Poast Warrior Yet another horrible idea and quite frankly encourages blobbing that much more. CCP will ruin this game with the current path they're on IMO. lol, local has been more responsible for blobbing than any mechanic. That includes POS reinforced timers.
Ashley Thomas Kiith Paktu Nex Eternus	Posted - 2008.10.25 00:34:00 - [48] its 0.0, its supposed to be risky, its supposed to be dangerous. a change like this will make people group up for safety or learn how to use the onboard scanner. what risk is there for the barge mining away at the belt when all he has to do is watch local and either safespot and log or log off entirely when someone jumps in. Eve is a dark, cold and dangerous place. Get used to it or gbt WOW This message brought to you by a carebear.
Shard Merchant Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.25 00:37:00 - [49] Originally by: Ashley Thomas its 0.0, its supposed to be risky, its supposed to be dangerous. a change like this will make people group up for safety or learn how to use the onboard scanner. what risk is there for the barge mining away at the belt when all he has to do is watch local and either safespot and log or log off entirely when someone jumps in. Eve is a dark, cold and dangerous place. Get used to it or gbt WOW This message brought to you by a carebear. AMEN BROTHA, PREACH THE GOOD WORD ^___________^
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.10.25 00:47:00 - [50] Edited by: MotherMoon on 25/10/2008 00:51:36 Edited by: MotherMoon on 25/10/2008 00:48:55 what do people mean ask us 1st? This community has been whining for local removal forever from 0.0 space! jez what carebares, Even wow doesn't tell you everyone in the area and when they get there and if they are red or blue. What other mmorpg uses chat as an intel tool, seriously. HOWEVER, I support making Constellation chat the new local so you knew they are around but can't know where and when. Also an upgrade to the scanner should be put in place so it auto scanns every 20 seconds so you don't have to keep pressing the button. or make it so if you have sov you can have everyone in the allaince see local but non-allaince members can't see local. That way if it's your space, you control it. If it's not your space, get used to it.

Pac SubCom A.W.M	Posted - 2008.10.25 00:58:00 - [51] Edited by: Pac SubCom on 25/10/2008 01:04:42 Absolutely great idea because something will replace it, and that something could be really good. For instance, there could be new sensor mechanics: 1. You have passive sensors and active sensors on your ship. 2. The passive sensors are always receiving and automatically warn you of ships in the vicinity (with a certain range based on sensor strength). They won't tell you the name of the pilot, but they do give a clue on how big it is and whether it's a combat ship or something civilian or whatever. The better your sensor skills (new types of skills), the more info you can get. On grid you might even get information on fitting. It's delayed though. Passive sensors need time to make out bogeys and discern details - so at first you don't see anything, then only have a red dot on your screen, and after a while it becomes clear what that thing really is. Naturally passive sensors do not give your location away. 3. Active sensors give instant detailed information on ship and its location, but will also give your location and presence away. 4. Friendly ships are always in communication with each other and will alert their presence to you via radio (namely you will get detailed information immediately once their enter system just like local now, but also with ship details. This way you won't have false alarms. 5. There exist modules and skills which enhance the range, speed and detail of the sensors (although the skills would be must have). Active modules are med slot, passives are low slot. 6. Friendly stations and pos might link their own sensor data to your ship if they are equipped with sensor mods. Command ships and battlecruisers can equip sensor warfare links doing the same. The existing warfare links can also affect the new sensors. 7. Cloaks: Covops cloaks enable you to do passive scanning without penalty, other cloaks have such a penalty. Non-cloaking ships fitting a cloak will be blind! You can't see them, but they will also get no information on you... Recons will have the best sensors available. 8. Sensor attributes are based on the racial sensor types - e.g. Caldari will be slowest but longest ranged, Minmatar will be quick but low range. There. --------------- ∞ TQFE
Moostang DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.25 00:59:00 - [52] Originally by: Ashley Thomas its 0.0, its supposed to be risky, its supposed to be dangerous. a change like this will make people group up for safety or learn how to use the onboard scanner. what risk is there for the barge mining away at the belt when all he has to do is watch local and either safespot and log or log off entirely when someone jumps in. Eve is a dark, cold and dangerous place. Get used to it or gbt WOW This message brought to you by a carebear. It wont be risky anymore.....it will be EMPTY. With the current implementation of local there is still plenty of risk to go around. Without local 0.0 would be ALL risk and little-to-no reward. It wont be worth it. 0.0 is already empty enough. CCP should be focusing on ways to bring MORE players to 0.0 not ways to ship them back to empire. People will adapt by using OOC alts to run missions in empire which will cause 0.0 to be empty. Moostang Darkstar 1 Goonswarm Priceless Necro Thread
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.25 01:21:00 - [53] Good change, but only if you: (a) make scanner auto-update (seriously, asking for people to keep clicking is stupid) (b) nerf cloaking recons. They're already more fearsome then HACs in many ways while having ability to cloak, and therefore be invisible from all detection methods up until the 'oh, you're ****ed now' moment. At least you've got local now... if local gets removed, cloaking recons get insanely overpowered.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.10.25 01:35:00 - [54] Originally by: Corp Quas Edited by: Corp Quas on 24/10/2008 19:51:54 Quote: Local as an info tool: We want to put local in 0.0 as a delayed mode channel so only people who talk in the channel are shown. We are also looking at other alternatives but if we find nothing better this will be put in testing at least. I swear to you CCP if you mess this up in any way you will lose at least 6 more accounts. This is primarily only catering to the roaming PvP pilots. There are far more people that need local to work as-is to enjoy this game. Changing it will be a drastic "last straw" change and you will lose alot of players. In 0.0 as we get intel of hostile gangs via local we can form defence gangs to prepare. With the proposed changes roaming gangs will have ultimate power over 0.0 space. There will not be defence gangs because no one will even know any hostiles are there until it is too late. Anyone who is in an NPC corp doesn't get to vote on the subject. STFU. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Moostang DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.25 01:37:00 - [55] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Anyone who is in an NPC corp doesn't get to vote on the subject. STFU. Nor anyone that is apart of any alliance or corp that doesn't actually hold any 0.0 space for that matter. Moostang Darkstar 1 Goonswarm Priceless Necro Thread
Angelonico Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.25 01:47:00 - [56] Originally by: whisk BEST CHANGE EVER Confirming this. Bravo CCP, it's about damn time. Now for the love of god, don't nerf ceptors and battleships with your blanket speed changes please - tia.
Solomon XI Hoist The Colors. Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.10.25 01:57:00 - [57] Originally by: Moostang Originally by: Bellum Eternus Anyone who is in an NPC corp doesn't get to vote on the subject. STFU. Nor anyone that is apart of any alliance or corp that doesn't actually hold any 0.0 space for that matter. Oh shut up. =) *** ~Solo Hoist The Colors. (CEO) Pirate Coalition (Yar?)
Jason Rockefeller DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.25 02:05:00 - [58] Originally by: Moostang Originally by: Bellum Eternus Anyone who is in an NPC corp doesn't get to vote on the subject. STFU. Nor anyone that is apart of any alliance or corp that doesn't actually hold any 0.0 space for that matter. Agreed
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.10.25 02:25:00 - [59] Originally by: Jason Rockefeller Originally by: Moostang Originally by: Bellum Eternus Anyone who is in an NPC corp doesn't get to vote on the subject. STFU. Nor anyone that is apart of any alliance or corp that doesn't actually hold any 0.0 space for that matter. Agreed I'm looking forward to farming Goons. Not that they drop anything worth a **** anyway.
Qlanth Caldari Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.25 02:45:00 - [60] Instead of logically trying to make 0.0 space more appealing it makes it even less appealing. Unless you do this very, very carefully it will basically ruin the entire game.



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