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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Lysander Kaldenn Viper Intel Squad Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2008.10.27 00:41:00 - [211] Poor Isk farmers, scream louder please. This would be an amazing boost for small gang/solo pvp. I pray that ccp does this. I love when people post saying "pvpers" like its a negative thing. If you don't like pvp go to empire please. Stop cloaking and ratting in the belts. Give up a decent fight once in your life.
Jack Gilligan Caldari THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.27 00:47:00 - [212] Originally by: CCP Casqade While I encourage people to discuss balancing changes, new ideas, old ideas, and such. Please do not take a one sentence reply to a specific question, get upset and think that we will put local in delayed mode on Tranquility without thinking, testing and getting feedback first. And please do not flame and troll others for bringing their thoughts and ideas to the table. Why shouldn't we panic? You guys are ramming the speed changes (and the massive collateral damage to lots of other things that weren't at all related to HACS moving at ludicrous speed) and haven't listened to one damn bit of feedback. Simply put making this change to local in 0.0 will make 0.0 space impossible to defend from gangs. Local should show neutrals and hostiles at least to the members of a sov holding alliance.
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.10.27 01:33:00 - [213] Originally by: Jack Gilligan ...You guys are ramming the speed changes ... and haven't listened to one damn bit of feedback. Hey Jack "Wildman" Gilligan, seen this thread? Simply put you are not very well informed. ...
Evan Batarr	Posted - 2008.10.27 01:53:00 - [214] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Rhadamantine Edited by: Rhadamantine on 26/10/2008 23:33:48 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer huh? No, evan claimed that nerfing local is bad because it is dangerous enough already ratting in 0.0 compared to making money in high sec. Local needs nerfed, end of story. Actually I read it, that after you claimed eve was overcrowded and that Local has become an overpowered scouting tool. Evan pointed out that 0.0 is actually empty most of the time. Hence the question... "Where do you live? Jita??" He then went on to say, why he didn't want local nerfing, regarding ratting etc. You should really read the post right first. The local nerf will only affect lo-sec and 0.0, unless you have a war dec ofc. So statements regarding overcrowding, are bound to get replies, as they don't sit well with the topic at hand. Edit: Additional quote. Alot of low sec areas and 0.0 systems are not empty at all. You really must live in Jita. Plz do us all a favor - stop posting. Especially about things you obviously have not the slightest clue about.
Clavius XIV Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.27 02:46:00 - [215] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Both you and I know that removing local will only hit the lazy/unskilled players. Skilled players know how to min/max. They know how to make ISK with the least effort to fund their PvP (or industry if that is their thing). Fleet style combat will not be seriously impacted, in fact it may improve. But solo isk making in 0.0 will not be worthwhile compared to other options. Smart players in 0.0 won't be in the belts, they will just be tending their POSes and making isk with empire alts, just coming out for fleet fights when POS are threatened. Personally I prefer a 0.0 that is actually populated and is a clone of empire except you can shoot anyone rather than a wasteland where you could go months without getting a decent non-fleet fight. Decent non-gank fights happen when both pilots go in thinking they can win. Without reasonable intel and the ability to act on it before it is too late you just get more ganks and gate camping. I do kind of like the idea proposed earlier in the thread with massive belts with random warp ins. Add debris clouds to prevent cloaking in belts, and then you might have the start of something interesting.
Jukhta Mein Domini Umbrus Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.10.27 03:21:00 - [216] It's a fine change that would make things more exciting both ways, as long as they implement other intel-gathering mechanisms. For example, a ship that can be deployed to scan the nearest 5 systems. Intel would then flow back to HQ which decides what forces to deploy where. I think this is suggested in ambulation as well.
Evan Batarr	Posted - 2008.10.27 05:24:00 - [217] Originally by: Jukhta Mein It's a fine change that would make things more exciting both ways, as long as they implement other intel-gathering mechanisms. For example, a ship that can be deployed to scan the nearest 5 systems. Intel would then flow back to HQ which decides what forces to deploy where. I think this is suggested in ambulation as well. LOL. It's the same dumb idea as having scouts on each and every gate. Tha main problem is not the defense of a 0.0 area against small or big gangs - the problem is how people make their living in 0.0. The risk vs. reward in 0.0 is already broken compared to Empire so if people have to take only slightly more risk they will just leave 0.0 for most of the time. Only clone-jumping back if needed. And 0.0 is already a wasteland in most areas. And the guys you get to gank now will be the first ones that leave.
Tchu Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.10.27 05:25:00 - [218] Local should be removed.
Emeline Cabernet Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.27 06:56:00 - [219] All and everyone wil then jump into recons. Sounds like alot fun.
Borgholio Minmatar Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.27 07:05:00 - [220] I believe that CCP should take a cue from popular Sci-Fi. You never would expect a Star Destroyer to jump into a system and have the captain say "We found the Rebel base, Lord Vader. We see 40 Rebel pilots in local chat". I think it would add to the game if local were indeed removed as a source of intel, but that something were added to make up for it, such as long range sensors. A small scanner window that you can place on your screen (or integrate into your overview). This scanner can not only automatically scan for shiptypes within a certain distance, but can also receive IFF signals from the entire system. That way it combines the current "click every 5 seconds" scanner, as well as giving you hard numbers as to how many hostiles / neutrals / friendlies are in system. This system would replace local completely, but give people good intel without being overpowered. The only downside is that you won't know who is in the system while you're docked. In that case, I would suggest that the system-wide IFF part of the scanner should remain operational even when docked...but of course the shiptype scanner should be unavailable.
Calvin Firenze Minmatar Plundering Penguins Anarchy.	Posted - 2008.10.27 10:11:00 - [221] Edited by: Calvin Firenze on 27/10/2008 10:14:29 Jesus Christ CCP, is Barack Obama on your Dev team? I haven't heard this much harmful change proposed since he opened his mouth. /end tasteless political joke In all seriousness, I am completely against this change. What are we solo pvpers to do in 0.0 and lowsec now that you'll need a specialized scanning ship to find something to kill? I sure as **** can't kill something in a Cheetah or whatever the gallente one is that I can fly now unless its a shuttle. Sure, its a game focused on teamwork but occasionally people like to relax with some music on or whatever and do their own thing. If its not broken, please don't fix it. The main problem with the change is that it takes the fun out of playing eve and makes it more like work. Folks can flame me and call me a whiner all they want, but half the fun of pvp/solo pvp is catching someone not paying attention in the belts or wherever they are. Now we'll have to scan every system we come through if we want a kill. Fun. I know that what your customers think about changes like this don't matter at all to you, if you have your mind set on something you'll make the change anyways, customers be damned. Sometimes its like Eve players are altar boys and CCP are catholic priests. Whether we like it or not, you're gonna give it to us. Yes, CCP will lose 2 accounts from me if this goes into effect. Edit: Yes, I'm drunk.
Karina Bellac	Posted - 2008.10.27 10:21:00 - [222] Originally by: Lysander Kaldenn Poor Isk farmers, scream louder please. This would be an amazing boost for small gang/solo pvp. I pray that ccp does this. I love when people post saying "pvpers" like its a negative thing. If you don't like pvp go to empire please. Stop cloaking and ratting in the belts. Give up a decent fight once in your life. Yes, I too like to PvP in a PvE ship. Rapier pilots rejoice! The land of milk, honey and defenceless Hulks is but a step away!
Seishomaru	Posted - 2008.10.27 10:45:00 - [223] Originally by: Karina Bellac Originally by: Lysander Kaldenn Poor Isk farmers, scream louder please. This would be an amazing boost for small gang/solo pvp. I pray that ccp does this. I love when people post saying "pvpers" like its a negative thing. If you don't like pvp go to empire please. Stop cloaking and ratting in the belts. Give up a decent fight once in your life. Yes, I too like to PvP in a PvE ship. Rapier pilots rejoice! The land of milk, honey and defenceless Hulks is but a step away! You know that a rapier don't have the DPS to kill a properly tanked hulk... don't you?
Karina Bellac	Posted - 2008.10.27 10:57:00 - [224] Originally by: Seishomaru Originally by: Karina Bellac Originally by: Lysander Kaldenn Poor Isk farmers, scream louder please. This would be an amazing boost for small gang/solo pvp. I pray that ccp does this. I love when people post saying "pvpers" like its a negative thing. If you don't like pvp go to empire please. Stop cloaking and ratting in the belts. Give up a decent fight once in your life. Yes, I too like to PvP in a PvE ship. Rapier pilots rejoice! The land of milk, honey and defenceless Hulks is but a step away! You know that a rapier don't have the DPS to kill a properly tanked hulk... don't you? That's a pretty awesome counterargument you've got there. No, I can't see any flaws in... oh wait, maybe you heard of the concept of a 'gang'. A 'gang', if you will, who can sit cloaked in the next system, completely undetected, until such a time as the additional DPS they have is needed. You see, you're arguing for what is technically a perfectly reasonable change to the game. What you're not seeing is that once you get said change, you ain't gonna find **** to kill. Because they won't be there, they'll be up in empire on a missioning alt.
Karina Bellac	Posted - 2008.10.27 11:01:00 - [225] A question I do have: Why should only 0.0 local be changed?
Digital Anarchist THE INTERNET.	Posted - 2008.10.27 11:03:00 - [226] Finally, a change that's good for gameplay :) /me polishes his bomber/recon squads :) Thank you, CCP! ------------------------ This space for rent
Snow Banshee	Posted - 2008.10.27 11:03:00 - [227] Edited by: Snow Banshee on 27/10/2008 11:03:36 Frankly i like the idea. Those ratters that fear to be nerfed dont understand how much if boost non pvper in 0.0 . Atm its waaaayyy to easy for an alliance spot people in his systems, most of them are emply with just some people pass occasionally. They see you in local and then they try to chase you. If local chat doesnt show you, 90% of the time they will simply pass. If they use scanners they will spot also ships docked near posses so its not so immediate notify someone in his territory. A ratter ( expecially if doing exploration) will be covered much more as it is now. Sure both mush scan, but the ratter have an advantage: he is sticking and will notify quicly a new ship in the list ... roaming pirates or someone in alliance that was just passing have fist to guess if those ships in scan are "active" or docked. Ratting in a belt ( or mining) give you less advantages, but still you will first notice a "new" ship in the scanning list than a pvper that just came in system. Imho this change will be welcome. Chat should be a chant not the most powerfull scanning tool in game.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises	Posted - 2008.10.27 11:49:00 - [228] Originally by: Karina Bellac A question I do have: Why should only 0.0 local be changed? because CCp is still strugling to make carebears go form high sec to low se. And they don't want to scare them even more. But on 0.0 there is no such excuse, if you are there you are there for the worst. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Erienne	Posted - 2008.10.27 12:00:00 - [229] By all means get rid of local. Just don't complain when the cloaked dictor uncloaks on your fleet jump in, bubbles them and jumps out laughing. You see nothing but know what's coming. Then the 50 red drakes uncloak and kill your fleet while you order a burn back to the gate in your nerfed BS. The FC will scream at the scout and he goes - but they weren't here when I jumped in! Delaying local simply gives the defending team an incredible advantage and countering it will slow gameplay down to a crawl. Scouts will be obliged to jump in, wait for the local to catch up or scan down to see if anyone else is in EVERY system. Eve will become a game of cloak ambushes. How stale and boring is that! Forget roaming gangs; it would take five hours to go thirty jumps and back with any modi****of safety.
Bad Borris Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.10.27 12:06:00 - [230] Its going to be really funny when system lag becomes an intel tool.
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.10.27 12:16:00 - [231] Quote: Local chat changes=game ending. No. Let me fix this. Local chat changes=0.0 ending. or Local chat changes=0.0 moon mining era. Basically nobody would fly non-caps in 0.0 unless the ship is a cynopopper throw away. Attacking each other would be very easy; defending would be nearly impossible unless you can basically secure the entire area @ a chokepoint. Which theoretically could be done. So many people would be running to high sec/low sec 0.0 would be deserted and big forces could claim large areas and punch up the choke points. Then you could theoretically do something safely inside that space. The entire system working that way would be so utterly annoying and a farce.
Jarne Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.10.27 12:36:00 - [232] You guys complaining about the scanner not being appropriate for getting good intel should remember that the scanner will be revisited in tandem with local. I could think of some interesting changes to the scanner: Make it able to differentiate between - empty and piloted ships - moving and stationary ships - friendly and hostile ships Other things that would also be nice to consider: - Add a standings flag (red minus or blue plus etc.) to cynos in the overview, according to the standing of the creating ship - Make it somehow possible to notice incoming travel at a jump bridge - Remove the "average nr. of pilots in local" statistics from map and API Furthermore, you could always position scouts at gates to get even better intel than with current local. Btw.: I find myself clicking the scan button very frequently even when I don't need to at all. I can't do anything about it... you'll get used to it, too :) - Success=Achievements/Expectations
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.10.27 12:54:00 - [233] Originally by: Jarne Furthermore, you could always position scouts at gates to get even better intel than with current local. Doesn't detect people who login / logout in system. ;) Always a danger in assuming you know things (like that local is clear) when you don't. I wouldn't have the scanner point out 'hostile' ships. I'd just have ships that had you blue and they had you blue back broadcast some kind of identifier (IFF). At least in lowsec this wouldn't immediately flag hostile corps / pirates etc. ;)
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.10.27 12:57:00 - [234] Originally by: Jason Edwards forces could claim large areas and punch up the choke points. I think this is one of the issues, there are already some very safe constellations where if you're at the end of the pipe, you get at least a 5 jump warning that hostiles are incoming. With local removed those sort of constellations would be the only remotely 'safe' ones, as scouting five different gates isn't really feasible. They want to make the space we already have 'more' usable rather than less so... Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
Jarne Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.10.27 13:12:00 - [235] Good point, login of people into a system is one thing that would be nearly impossible to detect if it is at a good safe and not in station, absolutely impossible when the newly logged in pilot is in a cloaker. There should be some means to notify that. Logoff isn't that critical I think, wouldn't bother if I wouldn't notice that. With such a notification, login traps would become much less effective than just normal roaming, which is a good thing IMO.
Andrei Vassaliev Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.10.27 13:13:00 - [236] Edited by: Andrei Vassaliev on 27/10/2008 13:14:13 A nanve comment about this: What about removing the pilot's list currently displayed in local chat and replacing it only by the total number of pilots in the system, without any precision about their name/standings. This way, you would have an intel about the number of pilots in a system, but no information if they're neutral, blue or hostiles.
Aaron Mirrorsaver R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2008.10.27 13:35:00 - [237] unfortunately for eve, the way they handle space travel sucks, i.e you can only travel inbetween stellar objects, or bookmarks, you cant fly manually any meaningful distance in space. this is partly due to the sheer size of space as well. a game known as darkspace, had significantly smaller solar systems and fog of war. so looking at the tactical map, as you move across the system, you basically light your way, as you can see a significant area around your ship, similar to the solar system map in eve. and all enemy ships become visible once you are in range. if you remove local, there needs to be a viable 'sensor' on ships and not that silly ass scanner, it needs to be able to give way more information. Such as what alliance/corp the ships are from. And a graphical representation of them on the solar system map once you have them on scanner. i mean you need to be able to have a means or a technical 'gameplay' way of getting information on enemy movements or fleets, either for defense or offense, once local is removed, if its not done properly, eve will be chaos. think people dont want to fight now? wait till they remove local. as soon as a gang warps in on your gang, your fc will be calling for a warp out cause you dont know what they have. ------ RECON is recruiting
Karina Bellac	Posted - 2008.10.27 13:40:00 - [238] So, how many extra windows are we going to be staring at whilst committing the most heinous of heresies otherwise known as "0.0 PvE"? And how reliable will these extra windows be? (Case in point: Fleet window) And how will Rapiers/Pilgrims/Falcons/Arazus be detected? At least local currently provides an easy method for finding targets. Yeah, it bites both ways, the targets have an easy method of spotting you. But then the bottom line you have to keep sight of is that EvE is a game.
Tnam Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.10.27 15:34:00 - [239] This change is to be commended, it rawks! Much of 0.0 is much too safe, people endlessly farm isk in cloakable ships and take no risk whatsoever at the moment... the nearest they get to risk is that a rat scrambles them and a very fast agressor finds them perhaps because they are on a belt near to the jump in gate. The whole essence of 0.0 is risk/reward, ultimately the risk you take in a ratting ship is rather low anyway, it is likely insured and there's no meaninful reason to rig it unless to make it even more afk'able (certainly there is no BS that needs rigs to kill 0.0 rats). As somebody who often roams 0.0 and has done for a long time, I can say that this change does also work both ways. The scout has to do more work to find the targets, whereas currently you can move a gang very fast because empty local means move on.
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.10.27 16:29:00 - [240] Originally by: Borgholio I believe that CCP should take a cue from popular Sci-Fi. You never would expect a Star Destroyer to jump into a system and have the captain say "We found the Rebel base, Lord Vader. We see 40 Rebel pilots in local chat". I think it would add to the game if local were indeed removed as a source of intel, but that something were added to make up for it, such as long range sensors. A small scanner window that you can place on your screen (or integrate into your overview). This scanner can not only automatically scan for shiptypes within a certain distance, but can also receive IFF signals from the entire system. That way it combines the current "click every 5 seconds" scanner, as well as giving you hard numbers as to how many hostiles / neutrals / friendlies are in system. This system would replace local completely, but give people good intel without being overpowered. The only downside is that you won't know who is in the system while you're docked. In that case, I would suggest that the system-wide IFF part of the scanner should remain operational even when docked...but of course the shiptype scanner should be unavailable. Exactly how would the system you described be different from the current Local? At the very least it needs to stop giving out the "hard numbers" of how many hostiles/neutrals are in the entire system. ...

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