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Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2008.11.04 10:06:00 -
[151]
Edited by: Rajere on 04/11/2008 10:13:13
no it simply demonstrates the cowardice of the people in the lowsec you live in. I see some of that in low sec near me but see far more cowardice from the "pvpers" living in my npc 0.0 home region, which is why I spend as much time in low sec as I do. You have no idea how often I don't bother cloaking in low sec, put myself in close range but off of gates with a falcon, etc because I want a gang to try and kill my falcon and therefore commit to engaging. I've debated getting a rook instead so often but i'm too lazy to haul one down from empire with my hauling alt and there are none on market around here :(
As far advice on how to fight cowardice? You could try to bring less, try putting one (or more) falcon alt in as a rook main and leave the other character docked/logged. I say that because it seems to be the key to the cowards in 0.0 who won't fight us with anything less than >2 to 1 odds and ship superiority. The other day 3 of us (using 4 characters) camped 34 people in *our* station. They made the mistake of running to station and docking when their 10 man gang ran away from our 5 man gang. Afterwards they called up their A-team napfest who brought in 15 more ships who warped straight to station, and yep we forced them to dock as well. This continued with them calling up the B and C teams of their napfest and they eventually escaped losing only 5 ships by bringing in *8* falcons out of 37 of them in local.
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NOTR
How to Fail at Eve
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Suitonia
Gallente
interimo
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Posted - 2008.11.04 11:14:00 -
[152]
 Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 04/11/2008 10:16:16
Actually a bomber with damp has a faster lock and no cloaking delay so instead of it being a toss up to who locks and jams first (the uncloaked falcon has the advantage normally) and then who gets a cycle off the bombers can uncloak and damp the falcon to uselessness long before it has a chance to lock the bomber.
Fair enough. There might be range issues though, since damps have a range of 45km + 90km falloff. If the Falcon is cloaked he could be anywhere 150-200km off the gate in any direction. he could well uncloak 300km off your stealth bomber's position. Solved with bookmarks maybe.
although I'd rather have an all caldari falcon in gang than a stealth bomber, it would be a lot more useful in the gang.
Originally by: Murina
Did they increase the range of sentry guns to max then cos my sniper can hit out that far?.
No they still shoot things up to 150km from the object that are protecting. while you can have a Rokh or Apoc sitting outside the sentry range. Assuming you are 150km off the gate and the Falcon has an engagement range of 200km The Falcon could be anywhere from 0km to 350km away from you. This can also be solved to some extend by bookmarks, but if you need to warp to another position you're giving the falcon more time it needs to be able to get out.
It takes 3 volley's from an Apoc with 3 heatsink II's and Tachyon II's to be able to destroy the Falcon, The Falcon's align time is actually shorter than your rate of fire, so even if hes not aligned he can get out before the second, or at least the third volley hits. This means that you need 2/3 Sniper battleships in your gang before you can kill the falcon. Granted that you can remove him effectivly after his first jam cycle.
So yeah, i agree that sniper battleships and stealth bombers can be falcon counters to an extend. I'm still convinced that the best counter, while still being effective in my gang once the falcon is removed or doesn't show up, is the Falcon.
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Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2008.11.04 11:28:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Suitonia
It takes 3 volley's from an Apoc with 3 heatsink II's and Tachyon II's to be able to destroy the Falcon, The Falcon's align time is actually shorter than your rate of fire, so even if hes not aligned he can get out before the second, or at least the third volley hits. This means that you need 2/3 Sniper battleships in your gang before you can kill the falcon. Granted that you can remove him effectivly after his first jam cycle.
that, however is just theoretically. You forgot to include the pilot's reaction time, and lag. Such situation would only happen in lag-free environment and if the pilot was a computer or smth
I would say that it is pretty feasible for the apoc to smoke the falcon, or, at the very least to land a 2nd volley, specially when you're in a fight that pits numerically equal forces.
people keep talking in EFT numbers and theoretical engagements where X definitely beats Y and stuff, while in "real" world such things only happen once or twice. Ok sure, that gang of 5 that had a falcon that faced your gang of 10 managed to wipe the floor with you, but then again, people forget 2 things about this all: ECM is a force multiplier and the rule n¦3 and 5 in Grimpak's handbook of EVE: "there is no "overkill" only "fire" and "reload"." and "fair fights are a freak of nature.".
pack a backup plan at all times.
and a backup to that backup plan.
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
BiggestT
Caldari
Space Oddysey
Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.11.04 11:34:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Grimpak
good post
/signed
EVE history
Missiles post-nerf |
Suitonia
Gallente
interimo
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Posted - 2008.11.04 11:44:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Suitonia
It takes 3 volley's from an Apoc with 3 heatsink II's and Tachyon II's to be able to destroy the Falcon, The Falcon's align time is actually shorter than your rate of fire, so even if hes not aligned he can get out before the second, or at least the third volley hits. This means that you need 2/3 Sniper battleships in your gang before you can kill the falcon. Granted that you can remove him effectivly after his first jam cycle.
that, however is just theoretically. You forgot to include the pilot's reaction time, and lag. Such situation would only happen in lag-free environment and if the pilot was a computer or smth
I would say that it is pretty feasible for the apoc to smoke the falcon, or, at the very least to land a 2nd volley, specially when you're in a fight that pits numerically equal forces.
Well yeah of course, we are humans and not everyone has all level V skills either. Most of the time if the falcon isn't pre-aligned. I'd say 30% or there-abouts of the Falcon's I've faced are. You can land a second a volley, at which time the pilot has warped out. (hes removed for a good portion of the battle at this point if he returns for another jam cycle you land the final nail in the coffin, or he must wait for his shields to recharge so he can take a volley without dying) If it's already aligned hes out on the first. If the Falcon pilot is terrible or alt-tabbing you can probably kill him with a solo sniper. Or you could just grab your own Counter fit-Falcon and be done with it.
ECM is a force multiplier. They are good things to have in the game as they allow smaller gangs to engage bigger ones. Like I said in my first post in this thread, my main annoyance is the fact that the best counter is itself. When Rock is needed to counter Rock in a game of rock-paper-scissors then something is amiss.
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Kay Han
Caldari
The Circle
STYX.
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Posted - 2008.11.04 11:47:00 -
[156]
Edited by: Kay Han on 04/11/2008 11:48:49
I¦m afraid this has been said before.
But if you get jammed by a falcon, get some more falcons in your gang.
The falcon is fine how it is. and ECM in particular got nerfed to oblivion in the last 5 years.
Can you say "cyclejamming"?
The 20 sec duration which we have now is "slightly" disappointing TBH.
Multies were nerfed from 4 base strength.
ECM was made chance based.
ECCM modules were boosted (they once added only a few points... 4 for t2 backup arrays IIRC. not the current 40%+ to your sensor strengh)
basically peeps just whined how bad a 8/6 multispec scorp was (and it was a bad ass ship) as a result you got the current state.
Multispecs itself are useless. Scorps are nothing more then cannonfodder, due to a lack of ECM bonus. ECM cant be calculated anymore... And ECM even misses with 2 t2 racial jammers on a falcon on a non ECCM`ed BS.
They only 2 valuable EW ships are Falcons and Rooks (kitsunes up to some point).
But yeahhh. lets nerf ECM even more. It¦s overpowered anyways. 
Originally by: CCP Atropos
Personally I think Amarr ships should consume slaves in a similar way that other ships consume ammunition.
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Suitonia
Gallente
interimo
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Posted - 2008.11.04 11:50:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Kay Han
Edited by: Kay Han on 04/11/2008 11:48:49
I¦m afraid this has been said before.
But if you get jammed by a falcon, get some more falcons in your gang.
This is the current problem with them. If thats the solution then the current counters, i.e. ECCM arn't as effective as they should be.
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Murina
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.04 11:50:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Suitonia
Fair enough. There might be range issues though, since damps have a range of 45km + 90km falloff. If the Falcon is cloaked he could be anywhere 150-200km off the gate in any direction. he could well uncloak 300km off your stealth bomber's position. Solved with bookmarks maybe.
That is 135km with fall off so if the bomber starts at the 0 point of the engagement (as if it jumped into a camp)it has to travel 15-65km towards the falcon to start being effective and the closer it gets the more effective it becomes. Also a quick blip of the MWD and then cloak will give it a huge boost of speed towards the falcons position while making it invulnerable until it uncloaks again.
You have some good points and your willing to listen to reason and do not just scream about having "tried it all" and "nothing works nerf nerf" and your also right that in general having a falcon in your gang makes it a better gang, after all a gang with ewar should be better than a gang without.
But the fact is that a gang that does not have the ability to destroy or at least run off ships at medium or even extreme range be they falcons or any other snipe range ships for that matter is a poorly fitted and thought out gang in the first place.
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BiggestT
Caldari
Space Oddysey
Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.11.04 11:53:00 -
[159]
Edited by: BiggestT on 04/11/2008 11:55:05
Edited by: BiggestT on 04/11/2008 11:54:53
Originally by: Suitonia
, my main annoyance is the fact that the best counter is itself. When Rock is needed to counter Rock in a game of rock-paper-scissors then something is amiss.
This is only partly true.
It is actually quite rare that a falcon will decloak at over 200km with suprise buttsex factor.
However, when it is this far, a falcon is probably best, though a sniper with eccm has a good chance of making him bugger off.
Under 200km, youll find that one of the best counters is actually an arazu, as a falcon has a high sensor strength making it harder to jam than a bs for an opposing falcon. As arazu's damps arent chance based, it makes it the best choice whenever the hostile falcon is in range. Just make sure u cloak up when the falcon first arrives, and declaok + jam once hes busy, so he doesnt deny you the oppurtunity.
EVE history
Missiles post-nerf |
Suitonia
Gallente
interimo
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Posted - 2008.11.04 11:58:00 -
[160]
Yeah the Arazu is good at getting rid of the Falcon. It also probably has the highest chance to actually kill it out of any ship as well. The Falcon is probably a better choice overall however since the Arazu isn't really a force multiplier due to damps sucking.
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Kay Han
Caldari
The Circle
STYX.
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Posted - 2008.11.04 11:59:00 -
[161]
Edited by: Kay Han on 04/11/2008 12:00:49
Originally by: Suitonia
Originally by: Kay Han
Edited by: Kay Han on 04/11/2008 11:48:49
I¦m afraid this has been said before.
But if you get jammed by a falcon, get some more falcons in your gang.
This is the current problem with them. If thats the solution then the current counters, i.e. ECCM arn't as effective as they should be.
It¦s no problem. It¦s one of some counters.
the dude in teh OP refered to a 2vs2. He and his buddy got jammed the whole fight. well bad luck i guess. No need to run to the forums and make Baby Jesus cry about how bad falcons are.
Basically you guys want ECCM to counter every attempt to jam you. Wouldnt that make ECCM overpowered?
ECM is chance based. meaning a maxed out falcon pilot has a 60% chance to jam you if you havent fitted an ECCM mod. He will jam you most of the time.
Just go to sisi and make some tests with falcons. You¦ll notice that the chance is fairly accurate over time.
Also this falcon pilot will miss jams. if not in your fight with him, then in teh next one.
Just because some dude thought it would be cool to fight a 2vs2 without knowing the oponents ships, and got OMGWTFJAMMZ0RED in teh process, ECM isnt overpowered.
Originally by: CCP Atropos
Personally I think Amarr ships should consume slaves in a similar way that other ships consume ammunition.
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Suitonia
Gallente
interimo
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Posted - 2008.11.04 12:07:00 -
[162]
Actually, I personally think ECCM as it stands on battleships is ok. And I wouldn't want to see an Immunity module. I'd like to see it more viable on smaller ships like interceptors, cruisers etc. Maybe give eccm a flat boost like +25 strength when activated, so a Interceptor like a Stiletto could load one and tackle the falcon without getting jammed easier than a battlecruiser would.
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Chronospin
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.11.04 12:26:00 -
[163]
Edited by: Chronospin on 04/11/2008 12:38:04
Originally by: Lili Lu
Originally by: BiggestT
Originally by: tarin adur
ECCM you'll still get jammed 50% of the time(which,if your in a battleship, is really 100% of the time)
WRONG
50% is more reflective of bs chances before eccm than after.
Mostfalcon pilots will have ecm with 12 strength, many bs have over 24, while hte average is around 20. ECM misses far more often than ud think. Fit eccm and ull make it that much harder for mr. falcon.
Oh and to the ppl whining about not bringing snipers.
You fail.
An eagle is a hac and can fit further than a falcon can jam as can the cerb, and if you have a bs gang u shld always have at least one sniper. If your in a cruiser gang and are worried about falcons, use tacklers to scream at said falcon and bump him, get warp ins whatever, hell die easily.
And u can always choose to conceal ur numbers BEFORE the fight starts, having ppl aligned in sniper hacs or w/e for when the flacon shows up can really give him that oh shi- factor.
If ud have bothered trying such methods before screaming MUMMY MY POOR SHIP GOT JAMMED, ud realsie that eve isnt just f1-f8.
Hey Biggy, I think what he's trying to say is the lock time on a BS means the Falcon's ecm effectively cycles before the BS locks resulting in a near 100% jam.
Sniper HACS are well and good but if the Falconed fleet is the one that had the battlefield defense that Falcon will warp before getting killed.
If you get tracking disrupted or damped at least you can still remote rep someone, throw drones after inties and dictors, etc. You may be able to overcome the td or damp effect by changing scripts in your tracking computer or sensor booster. The td or damp ship is also most likely 50-100 km away as well and risking it's own death. And chances are that that one ew/recon ship of your enemy is dedicated to taking just you out.
Conversely if you are jammed by a Falcon/Rook you can't do squat. Most likely that Falcon is 180-220km away and will cloak and/or warp if threatened. And, that Falcon is probably taking out 2 or 3 other ships as well.
You say fit ECCM. Sounds real easy, but I don't think you've had experience fitting an Amarr BS or a Megathron with limited mid slots already dedicated to 2 sensor boosters, a tracking computer and mwd for instance. Low slot eccm is worthless. And as was stated an eccm still not really give you much more ability to avoid the jam. Plenty of people speaking with experience on that which you fail to acknowledge or understand.
Face it, Falcons, ECM boats in general are too powerful. In my opinion only the Scorpion should get the sniper range ecm ability. Falcons and Rooks should have fitting drawbacks to acheiving around 150+km. Also if the strength of the jamming is not nerfed then eccm needs a definite buff, and it needs to be converted to a script that goes into a sensor booster.
I think many Falcon apologists on the forums need to get some experience flying other recons that regularly fly in the thick of it. It's not like those ships are so defensively powerful. They depend on a LSE or 2, mwd, and maybe a cap booster in their mids, leaving maybe 2 or 3 slots for the ew and tackle. Lows are usually speed/agility. And they die, alot.
That almost every mid on an ECM boat is filled with ECM is indicative of ECM being too powerful atm. If it weren't you would see people using a LSE or 2, and using speed/agility mods in the lows. Or, the range needs to be cut such that it makes sense to fit the lows with agility/speed instead of ...
This is a good post realy. And it freakin drive me on this conclusion:
Every gang or fleet much have a true Anti support ships group and it is SURE that some ships can find a niche in that r(le.
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Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2008.11.04 12:36:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Suitonia
When Rock is needed to counter Rock in a game of rock-paper-scissors then something is amiss.
and that's the problem with EVE nowadays.
who said that EVE was a rock-paper-scissors game? can't the rock equip scissors armor, or paper guns? better yet, isn't such thing (the rock having scissors armor and paper guns), one of the best things of EVE? sure it becomes FOTM, but then again, the best part of it is to beating to a pulp those noobs that just follow the FOTM with a paper armed with rock armor and scissor guns
still, it shouldn't be a overly complex of the rock-paper-scissors and the day it becomes such game, it's the day when I can say that EVE has become truly boring.
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
The Tzar
Malicious Intentions
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Posted - 2008.11.04 13:23:00 -
[165]
I had to laugh at whoever (no name calling now) said that falcon's have it easy as they can warp to 200km from a gang member and be safe...
Anyone else see the issue here?
Unless as a falcon pilot you are gate camping you will never have the time to get to your 'safe' engagement range if your opponents are any good. If they're not, hell they deserve to lose.
What does the paper thin, no speed, no buffer falcon do if it has to jump through a gate to aid it's comrades on the other side? Either spend a minute (at least) warping away and back at 100km IF there is no bubble to suck you back into the engagement on your return.
The only way I know of is to put in FAR more preparation than any other ship has to in the way of bookmarks in EVERY system around you at EVERY gate/station you could possibly engage in. If you haven't then the falcon becomes a massive liability. Your gang takes on opponents it couldn't without it's aid, loses this aid quickly and is suddenly screwed. It's all swings and roundabouts...
In fleet battles, who is to say that since you as a falcon pilot warped off and back into the fight that a bubble hasn't been dropped within 100km of your warp-in point and on your return, your >100M ship with no speed or buffer gets nailed instantly...
It has already been said in this thread but if ECM gets nerfed, this whingers will then be on to TD's as overpowered cos my 2 BS didn't hit anything all fight. Wah I don't have enough slots to fit tracking enhancers/computers; sound familiar?
__________________________________________
'Light travels faster than sound.
This is why some people appear intelligent
until they speak'
__________________________________________ |
Endless Subversion
The Accursed
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Posted - 2008.11.04 14:14:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 04/11/2008 10:16:16
Originally by: Suitonia
Why even bother bringing theorycraft counters like Stealth Bombers (which are fairly unusable in lowsec) when another Falcon (or indeed Rook or Scorpion) can counter the Falcon with a lot more effectiveness, and is still useful to your gang if no Falcon's show up or are removed.
Actually a bomber with damp has a faster lock and no cloaking delay so instead of it being a toss up to who locks and jams first (the uncloaked falcon has the advantage normally) and then who gets a cycle off the bombers can uncloak and damp the falcon to uselessness long before it has a chance to lock the bomber.
Originally by: Suitonia
as you need additionally remote rep battleships to keep your snipers alive under sentry gun fire, and their gang.
Did they increase the range of sentry guns to max then cos my sniper can hit out that far?.
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Bazman
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.11.04 14:20:00 -
[167]
Having just been on the receiving end of a Falcon that just ruined what could have been a pretty fun fight, I just have to add. BOO FALCON BOOOOOOOOOOOO
Anyway. My overloaded ECCM didn't help me at all in that particular fight. Engaged a couple of Rapiers, Zealot and Vaga + Onyx with a Pulse Geddon using best named ECCM. Didn't help a flicker.
Ah but for the pre falcon days :|
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Jake Stevens
Heretic Militia
Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2008.11.04 14:27:00 -
[168]
adapt by usin ur own falcon alt noobs
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Arune Ayden
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.04 14:30:00 -
[169]
Here's a quick train of thought: if every race was given modules to boost the e-war abilities they are bonused in, how long would it take for the game development forum to be flooded with threads composed of 'nerf recons' whines?
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.11.04 15:19:00 -
[170]
Most of these whine threads seem to go like this:
We had a gang, they had a gang, we did not have ewar, they had ewar, we fought, they jammed some of our ships, we lost, they won.
So we have learned that a well prepared gang with ewar support can beat a similar sized poorly prepared gang without any ewar support. |
baltec1
R.U.S.T.
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Posted - 2008.11.04 15:41:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Suitonia
Why even bother bringing theorycraft counters like Stealth Bombers (which are fairly unusable in lowsec) when another Falcon (or indeed Rook or Scorpion) can counter the Falcon with a lot more effectiveness, and is still useful to your gang if no Falcon's show up or are removed.
Because I put this into practace and can kill the falcon in 3-4 vollies?
Get under 40k from the falcon and you can fire and cloak faster than it can target so you will never get jammed. The falcon either warps off or dies where as if another ECM ship was just jamming it the falcon remains a risk since you cannot jam it forever. I can also be used as a scout.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.04 15:45:00 -
[172]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 04/11/2008 15:45:30
Originally by: Arune Ayden
Here's a quick train of thought: if every race was given modules to boost the e-war abilities they are bonused in, how long would it take for the game development forum to be flooded with threads composed of 'nerf recons' whines?
Cloaking recons are overpowered as a idea. Covert ops cloaking HACs would be far more balanced to be honest.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Falcon Alt
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Posted - 2008.11.04 15:48:00 -
[173]
Falcon is balanced. Stop whining. |
Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2008.11.04 16:21:00 -
[174]
Edited by: Grimpak on 04/11/2008 16:21:11
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 04/11/2008 15:45:30
Originally by: Arune Ayden
Here's a quick train of thought: if every race was given modules to boost the e-war abilities they are bonused in, how long would it take for the game development forum to be flooded with threads composed of 'nerf recons' whines?
Cloaking recons are overpowered as a idea. Covert ops cloaking HACs would be far more balanced to be honest.
wrong.
covert ops titans are much more balanced.
also, recons can't blend. true story.
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Lorz0r
You're Doing It Wrong
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Posted - 2008.11.04 17:11:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 04/11/2008 00:54:53
Originally by: Lorz0r
I'm sick of this theorycraft, basically Falcons > your ****ty gang. If I just had 6 falcons and 4 BS I'd just permajam all your ships and what will you do then?
Warp off as you keep forgetting to bring tackle.
Bud the setup im talking about (with and without the logistics) has been tried and tested against every form of gang in eve and it owns more than it can lose or be stalemated against, yes their are some setups it cannot deal to well with like a 10 man RR BS gang but then nothing is perfect and if it was it would be broken and really need nerfing.
What you look for in a gang is best options to cover as much as what you may face in eve with the numbers you have, so yea a 10 man perfectly skilled falcon gang can jam the crap out of any other 10 man gang at 200+km proly permanently but its worthless and pointless.
A good mix of ships may not be able to break the tank of a 10 man RR BS gang (not much could apart from another RR BS gang or capitals) or beat 10 falcons but it will still beat and be able to counter most reasonable gang setups with its variety and range.
I'm sorry to break this to you but there is no counter to a 6 falcon + 4 bs gang apart from a 9 falcon 1 bs gang.
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daisy dook
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Posted - 2008.11.04 17:12:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Endless Subversion
Edited by: Endless Subversion on 04/11/2008 14:32:54
It's like hitting my head into a brick wall posting here.
A sniper ship doesn't do much of anything. The falcons always warp and when they come back (assuming they don't have more than 1 on grid SS in warp range) they lock, jam and are in warp by the time you can lock them.
I had a blackbird with 2-3 on grid SS's warp between them, lock and get a jam cycle off on my mates and then warp to the next ss before I could lock him. Meanwhile you're sitting in close range of all their close range ships in your honor tanked anti-falcon sniper apoc.
It's a joke.
Shock horror, your opponent prepares the battlefield and you have trouble beating their preparation.
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baltec1
R.U.S.T.
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Posted - 2008.11.04 17:36:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Lorz0r
I'm sorry to break this to you but there is no counter to a 6 falcon + 4 bs gang apart from a 9 falcon 1 bs gang.
4-5 bombers will instapop a falcon and cannot be targeted by such a gang let alone jammed if you do it right.
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Murina
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.04 17:37:00 -
[178]
Edited by: Murina on 04/11/2008 17:45:06
Originally by: Lorz0r
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: Lorz0r
I'm sick of this theorycraft, basically Falcons > your ****ty gang. If I just had 6 falcons and 4 BS I'd just permajam all your ships and what will you do then?
Warp off as you keep forgetting to bring tackle.
Bud the setup im talking about (with and without the logistics) has been tried and tested against every form of gang in eve and it owns more than it can lose or be stalemated against, yes their are some setups it cannot deal to well with like a 10 man RR BS gang but then nothing is perfect and if it was it would be broken and really need nerfing.
What you look for in a gang is best options to cover as much as what you may face in eve with the numbers you have, so yea a 10 man perfectly skilled falcon gang can jam the crap out of any other 10 man gang at 200+km proly permanently but its worthless and pointless.
A good mix of ships may not be able to break the tank of a 10 man RR BS gang (not much could apart from another RR BS gang or capitals) or beat 10 falcons but it will still beat and be able to counter most reasonable gang setups with its variety and range.
I'm sorry to break this to you but there is no counter to a 6 falcon + 4 bs gang apart from a 9 falcon 1 bs gang.
And neither of those setups are of any use.
Just out of interest how many 6 falcon 4 BS or 9 falcon 1 BS gangs have you seen in eve if its such a uber powerful setup?. And how would you kill stuff like cruisers that just burned out of scram range and warped away especially after this nano/web nerf?.
Your setups are stupid pointless and can do nothing but jam and watch targets smaller than BS warp away loling at your stupidity.
PS: 10 damp fitted StealthBombers would melt your falcons with alpha strikes one by one before you even had a chance to lock anything until you ran with what was left of your uber gang...........
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Endless Subversion
The Accursed
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Posted - 2008.11.04 17:45:00 -
[179]
Edited by: Endless Subversion on 04/11/2008 17:45:49
Originally by: daisy dook
Originally by: Endless Subversion
Edited by: Endless Subversion on 04/11/2008 14:32:54
It's like hitting my head into a brick wall posting here.
A sniper ship doesn't do much of anything. The falcons always warp and when they come back (assuming they don't have more than 1 on grid SS in warp range) they lock, jam and are in warp by the time you can lock them.
I had a blackbird with 2-3 on grid SS's warp between them, lock and get a jam cycle off on my mates and then warp to the next ss before I could lock him. Meanwhile you're sitting in close range of all their close range ships in your honor tanked anti-falcon sniper apoc.
It's a joke.
Shock horror, your opponent prepares the battlefield and you have trouble beating their preparation.
Go on then, jackass, suggest a counter that works. I brought a dedicated anti-jam boat out that every falcon apologist swears hard counters ecm boats. Yet it didn't even come close to countering a blackbird.
Just because the opponent has a few SSs shouldn't mean he's uncounterable. Go look at the logistics of jumping into a camp with a falcon sitting somewhere within a 200-220km sphere of the gate. Then try and design a ship that can negate that.
Add to that the fact that if the jam pilot has ongrid bookmarks he only spends about a third of his time actually sitting in space targetable while still being 100% effective on his jams (since they don't cancel when he warps).
Go on champ.
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Endless Subversion
The Accursed
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Posted - 2008.11.04 17:47:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Murina
PS: 10 damp fitted StealthBombers would melt your falcons with alpha strikes one by one before you even had a chance to lock anything until you ran with what was left of your uber gang...........
And the small gang counter is...
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