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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.11.10 23:32:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: CCP Nozh
We did do changes to stealth bombers on our development servers, but we were in agreement with QA that we didn't have sufficient time to test the changes properly for Quantum Rise.
In our test changes we removed the explosion radius bonus (moving them away from the "anti-small ship" role) and gave them a fair bonus to torpedo damage. We'll probably do some more changes to them and release them to Singularity when Quantum Rise is ready and deployed to Tranquility.
Are we going to see bombs buffed? I mean the problem of the SB is not the cruise missiles. The problem is that they are not doing their intended role, wich is to bomb blobs.
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[Video] The Cruise |
Captator
Universal Securities
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Posted - 2008.11.11 00:02:00 -
[62]
With torps and 100% damage bonus you are looking at a 4.7k alpha on 3 launchers, 1 bcu, max skills, roughly double the current cruise missile alpha.
If (hypothetically) you then gave them a hidden bonus such that an unpainted unmoving cruiser will take full damage, then we are perhaps looking at something interesting (as this basically means BC/BS will take 4k+ alpha), which I don't think is enough to justify their greatly decreased range.
Going the other way, if you gave them a 200% damage bonus, but no hidden exp velocity/exp radius bonus, then you are looking at nearly 7k alpha versus painted BS and BC, and a greatly decreased damage against cruisers and frigs, putting it back into more normal volley damage numbers against them. This would perhaps give them a role, along with a 10% velocity bonus per level for siege missile launchers (30km range with max skills, 45km for javelins).
This is just following along the lines of potential torp workings on the ship.
A covops cloak would be nice, but it would have to come with a non-skill attached bonus that made it impossible to fit a probe launcher and the cloak simultaneously, unless you fit nothing else, and lots of cpu mods, in which case the covops frig is clearly better for the role.
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Thenoran
Caldari
Hegemony Enterprises
E L I T E Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.11 01:08:00 -
[63]
Originally by: dojocan81
Originally by: CCP Nozh
We did do changes to stealth bombers on our development servers, but we were in agreement with QA that we didn't have sufficient time to test the changes properly for Quantum Rise.
In our test changes we removed the explosion radius bonus (moving them away from the "anti-small ship" role) and gave them a fair bonus to torpedo damage. We'll probably do some more changes to them and release them to Singularity when Quantum Rise is ready and deployed to Tranquility.
torps on SB ?!? 
Might aswell call it a Submarine 
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Ship Yield Calc
Improve Mining |
Miss Marketing
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.11.11 01:10:00 -
[64]
LOL @ CCP screwing up again. The only thing that saves a stealth bomber now is that I can warp before its tackled. Should it have to be within scram range to fire, it will have no escape or defense.
But seriously, why the hell would you fly one of these things in the first place? Its not capable of soloing and its just all around crapy given the fact it has to warp uncloaked. Oh great you want to use bombs... The only place they are worth while seeing as they are AoE is during a massive fleet fight or at a POS. In both situations lag will probably contribute to it dying either to enemies on warpin/grid load or by its own bomb and not warping fast enough.
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Tac Ginaz
Coalition of Nations
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Posted - 2008.11.11 02:01:00 -
[65]
Sorry to burst your bubble but the bomber can ONLY work as a short range or point blank attacker.
You cannot have a long range high alpha damage frigate using missiles.. your targets will see them coming and jump off.
As a short range high damage frigate vs big targets using torpedoes, the only option will be short range.
and c'mon man think about it.. you have a freaking' CLOAKING DEVICE. With that you sneak into range to deliver the weapon.
As for the escape... thats the tricky part. As a bomber you should watch WHO can lock you and how far away they are.
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Msgerbs
Gallente
Imperial Assualt Guild
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Posted - 2008.11.12 00:25:00 -
[66]
CCP... I hate you at this moment. Just finished training cruise missiles, and what do you do? You screw up my bomber. Give me somethnig that can help my corp's miners pwn that little can-flipper smart-mouth, or that guy who thinks he's cute sitting there in lowsec. Not something that will merely annoy battleships.
You give it torps, anything can target at 40KM, most ships can kill at 40km. SO basically... I might as well be flying a BS myself and actually survive to fire another shot.
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Menzisu Uiru
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:38:00 -
[67]
Any change is welcome. I think most bomber pilots can agree that these ships in their current form are severely flawed. I'd be willing to play around with another design philosophy for no other reason then that the fact that it's different.
If it works, it works. If the new design also ends up being flawed, then we can hope for another change.
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Kiotsu Adler
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:06:00 -
[68]
I sign up for torpedo SB nao!
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Arikanaiz
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:24:00 -
[69]
I'm Starting a petition against the missile changes, please read and post here.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=920962
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Murk Loar
Polytope
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Posted - 2008.11.12 03:15:00 -
[70]
A Siege Manticore with a slight range to torp velocity/flight time would make me very happy.
In my pants. |
Tac Ginaz
Coalition of Nations
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Posted - 2008.11.12 04:20:00 -
[71]
How about a CITADEL torp manticore that does full damage to BS sized targets via ship bonus to citadel torp?
The answer IS citadels not sieges or cruises.
2 citadels + 1 bomb (9k dmg) or 3 citadels (6k dmg) = excellent alpha damage, point blank attack craft without it single-shotting BS sized targets.
Leave the frigates and cruiser sized targets for the other T2 covop combat ships: the Force and Combat recon cruisers and AF's.
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Msgerbs
Gallente
Imperial Assualt Guild
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Posted - 2008.11.12 05:52:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Tac Ginaz
2 citadels + 1 bomb (9k dmg) or 3 citadels (6k dmg) = excellent alpha damage, point blank attack craft without it single-shotting BS sized targets.
=dead bomber
How about a bomber that can hit ships the missiles it uses are intended, forget about hitting smaller.
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Tuncan
Minmatar
Arbitrary Freedom
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Posted - 2008.11.12 06:26:00 -
[73]
Taking away the cruise launcher will be awesome for bombers.
Even with a %100 explosion bonus SB's are not useful - i mean i fit my sb for 35 million,i can fit a cyclone with that price and become more effective -
Torpedoes, yes torpedoes.
I don' care about the range, actually it would be an awesome fun to decloak,passive target lacunher citadel torps cloak and wait.
This should perfectly suit to hound which already has around 450ish speed while cloaked with only 1 OD2.
I have cruise missiles 5 btw, yea i know this change will suck for us in speed wise but it will make SB's useful.
It will be harder to use it, so thats better.
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Lethos Aranis
THE BLACK RAGE
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.11.12 06:37:00 -
[74]
Torps and short range on a ship with absolutely no tank at all?
Jesus Christ CCP, can you make any worse decisions?
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Tuncan
Minmatar
Arbitrary Freedom
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Posted - 2008.11.12 08:22:00 -
[75]
Lol i did 50 dmg per missile to an AB fitted ishkur.
2 volleyed a thrasher and he smiled on me before he warped out.
pfft
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Brian Instigator
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Posted - 2008.11.12 10:09:00 -
[76]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
We did do changes to stealth bombers on our development servers, but we were in agreement with QA that we didn't have sufficient time to test the changes properly for Quantum Rise.
In our test changes we removed the explosion radius bonus (moving them away from the "anti-small ship" role) and gave them a fair bonus to torpedo damage. We'll probably do some more changes to them and release them to Singularity when Quantum Rise is ready and deployed to Tranquility.
Im HOPING you put the word Torpedo in by mistake.
Otherwise... wtf are you guys smoking? Range is the only defence a SB has... and you plan to remove it?
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Terra Mikael
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2008.11.12 11:54:00 -
[77]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
We did do changes to stealth bombers on our development servers, but we were in agreement with QA that we didn't have sufficient time to test the changes properly for Quantum Rise.
In our test changes we removed the explosion radius bonus (moving them away from the "anti-small ship" role) and gave them a fair bonus to torpedo damage. We'll probably do some more changes to them and release them to Singularity when Quantum Rise is ready and deployed to Tranquility.
I disagee with your vision for the bomber, but if you do take it in this direction, you will need a bonus to missile velocity. And increase the torp range by several hundred percent.
An alternative would be to add a forth launcher, and no bonus to torp range. At least this way it would be worth uncloaking and risking everything. velocity is still a must due to the incredibly slow torp velocity.
Whatever you do, and this is the most important point - bombers must have the guarantee of being able to survive their first volley.
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Kateryne
Minmatar
Children Of Matar
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Posted - 2008.11.12 12:09:00 -
[78]
I'm all for CCP turning the bomber into a torpedo-bomber and thus an anti-big ship damage dealer.
If they do this they need to allow bombers to fit multiple bomb launchers, but slightly lower the blast radius of bombs to compensate.
Another idea i've been toying with is having a second class of "bombers" which have bonuses to rockets or HAMs and are designed around pelting them at frigates, destroyers and possibly cruisers.
This would need a tanking bonus too.
My final thought would be allowing bombers to fit covert ops cloaks, BUT giving them a penalty to re-cloak time, pretty much forcing you to pick targets you can kill, or else they'll lock you and f&$k you up. However this would allow for a completely stealthy entry and manouvering within system.
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haz bro
Caldari
Doom Guard
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.13 05:32:00 -
[79]
Edited by: haz bro on 13/11/2008 05:33:47
Originally by: CCP Nozh
We did do changes to stealth bombers on our development servers, but we were in agreement with QA that we didn't have sufficient time to test the changes properly for Quantum Rise.
In our test changes we removed the explosion radius bonus (moving them away from the "anti-small ship" role) and gave them a fair bonus to torpedo damage. We'll probably do some more changes to them and release them to Singularity when Quantum Rise is ready and deployed to Tranquility.
Only stealth bombers ?? you ever looked at NPC ship speeds to they reduce missile damage with the damage reduction factor of 3.2 you need almost 33% more missiles you gonna lower the ammo cost to again or increase cargo bays.... don't hit something with a nerv overall if you hav't looked at all factors...But we know from 2003 already that is nothing new. But hehe Thx  you made me win a bet we had running in the corp :P
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AK Shaman
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Posted - 2008.11.13 05:35:00 -
[80]
no freaking torpedos pls! JUST FIX SB as universal small/large target ship
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Tatianna
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Posted - 2008.11.13 05:41:00 -
[81]
Oh this is good. SB is going to become even more useless than it is now with the missile nerf.
LMAO
What's next?....let's expand the cargohold and give it mining bonuses.
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haz bro
Caldari
Doom Guard
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.13 07:39:00 -
[82]
Edited by: haz bro on 13/11/2008 07:40:33
Originally by: AK Shaman
no freaking torpedos pls! JUST FIX SB as universal small/large target ship
Its not only that they have to adust missile / damage ratio also to NPC ships as NPC BS Still fly the old speeds and with the 3,2 nerv on explosion velocity its gonna be some creative coding... like i said they looked at the player vs missile damage/speed points they acualy never toke in account that most NPC BS do 139 or above m/s... but thats there problem not ours... Like i said i won the bet we had lol and had a big laugh about it...
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PEACE1974
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Posted - 2008.11.13 08:04:00 -
[83]
Dear CCP,
PLEASE create a role bonus to bombers to increase Exp velocity and/or decrease Exp radius (more than it is now), even a little. Please? Or at very least increase its chances of survival in a 1v1 frig-level fight. It's such an expensive ship.
I have millions of SP invested in this class of ship, and am starting to feel it is becoming a worthless platform since it is easily tanked by frigs using no AB.
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Lena Planeswalker
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.11.13 08:44:00 -
[84]
stealth bombers....it sounds to me like a small ship intended to take out ships many classes bigger than itself.
you guys ever played freespace? remember the bombers were meant to take out capital ships, not fighters? I think that the devs want the SB to go in the same direction.
so that in mind, changing the bonuses to torp dmg bonus is welcome imho, giving it torp bonus and preferably a tiny range bonus aswell will make it an awesome ship to take out bs and capitals when you have a decent group.
with the speed changes with QR small ships survivability has been greatly increased already so getting closer to the target isn't that bad as you think. Not to mention the cloack being it's defence not range
the only key is to be able to operate outside of disruptor range so you can gtfo when you delivered your payload.
with these changes i foresee much more use for the SB in skirmish warfare in empire and 0.0 alike. A group of 5-7 SB and a few intys/assault frigs for tackling is gonna be very hard to deal with in small gang warfare.
if they could only warp cloacked
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Murina
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.13 08:45:00 -
[85]
SB have BS sized weapons and so should only dmg BS sized ships its that simple and that's their niche.
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Yon Krum
The Knights Templar
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.11.13 10:35:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Murina
SB have BS sized weapons and so should only dmg BS sized ships its that simple and that's their niche.
Perhaps, logically. But, that's not the way they were originally designed, with their bonuses to precision and the like.
Now, changing the ship to truely make it a "glass cannon", from it's current "glass rifle" status, could be very interesting....
Torps against larger ships could be very handy, if they rejigger the bonuses. As others have indicated, the ship would need enough range avoid *having* to be in the target's face--30-45km at least--and some form of significant explosion velocity bonus.
SBs, interestingly enough, are ships that fit well with heavy electronics use (in practice, damps are required to give you time to finish your target), and are best used in packs. Ideally, you want to run with tackling support as well. SBs are not, never have been, and probably never will be solopwnmobiles.
Torps, however, could open up some interesting possibilities beyond the current 2-3 damps fits: TPs, damps with locktime rather than range (your primary target would now be large ships that lock you poorly by default), and even possibly a web or disruptor for daring, in-your face action.
Currently, SBs can cloak before their cruises hit, if they fire within 30km of the target. There's enough of a lag before the missiles become inactive, that it is possible. Some kind of similar undocument feature should also be possible if they use torps.
--Krum
--Krum |
Terra Mikael
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2008.11.13 12:59:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Terra Mikael on 13/11/2008 12:59:48
Originally by: Murina
SB have BS sized weapons and so should only dmg BS sized ships its that simple and that's their niche.
Seriously QFT.
Arguing that the SB's role is attacking battleships is like arguing that your niche is art because you occasionally finger paint with human fe-ces.
What I'm trying to say is that going through all the motions means jack sh!t unless you actually accomplish something (i.e. selling your painting or killing a BS).
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Murina
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.13 13:04:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Terra Mikael
Edited by: Terra Mikael on 13/11/2008 12:59:48
Originally by: Murina
SB have BS sized weapons and so should only dmg BS sized ships its that simple and that's their niche.
Seriously QFT.
Arguing that the SB's role is attacking battleships is like arguing that your niche is art because you occasionally finger paint with human fe-ces.
What I'm trying to say is that going through all the motions means jack sh!t unless you actually accomplish something (i.e. selling your painting or killing a BS).
So what should the SB role be?..1 volleying frigs? (making all other frigs pointless)..taking cruisers into hull with 1 volley...can you say overpowered?.
POST NERF PVP SKILLS:
"shall we engage?"
"hmmm how many ships do they have?"
"more than us"
"lets not bother then"
"WOW great job FC!!!!"
"................. |
Terra Mikael
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2008.11.13 13:09:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: Terra Mikael
Edited by: Terra Mikael on 13/11/2008 12:59:48
Originally by: Murina
SB have BS sized weapons and so should only dmg BS sized ships its that simple and that's their niche.
Seriously QFT.
Arguing that the SB's role is attacking battleships is like arguing that your niche is art because you occasionally finger paint with human fe-ces.
What I'm trying to say is that going through all the motions means jack sh!t unless you actually accomplish something (i.e. selling your painting or killing a BS).
So what should the SB role be?..1 volleying frigs? (making all other frigs pointless)..taking cruisers into hull with 1 volley...can you say overpowered?.
I think you're putting words in my mouth. My stance has been that it has no role and you've been trolling here for lulz.
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Murina
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.13 13:17:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Terra Mikael
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: Terra Mikael
Edited by: Terra Mikael on 13/11/2008 12:59:48
Originally by: Murina
SB have BS sized weapons and so should only dmg BS sized ships its that simple and that's their niche.
Seriously QFT.
Arguing that the SB's role is attacking battleships is like arguing that your niche is art because you occasionally finger paint with human fe-ces.
What I'm trying to say is that going through all the motions means jack sh!t unless you actually accomplish something (i.e. selling your painting or killing a BS).
So what should the SB role be?..1 volleying frigs? (making all other frigs pointless)..taking cruisers into hull with 1 volley...can you say overpowered?.
I think you're putting words in my mouth. My stance has been that it has no role and you've been trolling here for lulz.
T1 FRIG
Assault ships
Electronic Attack Frigates
Interceptors
Covert ops
OH yes and the Stealth bomber.
It aint broken there is just no room or role for it cos of the sheer amount of bloody frig class ships in the game.
POST NERF PVP SKILLS:
"shall we engage?"
"hmmm how many ships do they have?"
"more than us"
"lets not bother then"
"WOW great job FC!!!!"
"................. |
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