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Terra Mikael Private Nuisance	Posted - 2008.11.13 13:31:00 - [91] Originally by: Murina It aint broken there is just no room or role for it cos of the sheer amount of bloody frig class ships in the game. What would you suggest become the first level role of the cov-ops->recon->black ops line? Besides, the idea is sound - just as it was a century ago when german U-boats nearly strangled british isles to death. SB = Eve's Uboats. that's it's intended role. Just like U-boats back in the day, they weren't well defended when they surfaced - but they had to surface to fire. From what I understand, even merchant ships during the time tried to ram them to take them out - so they were in grave danger just to take that one shot. Do you think it would even be worth it if they had to sit there and fire 15 volleys? Might as well get a cruiser to do the job then... same applies to snipers, espionage artists, and yes, U-boat captains. One shot, one kill - kill or be killed. ..or at least that's how it was. Seems to have all slipped away.
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.13 13:53:00 - [92] Fine then to stick with that "u-boat" role they should be only useful against haulers and mining barges..... POST NERF PVP SKILLS: "shall we engage?" "hmmm how many ships do they have?" "more than us" "lets not bother then" "WOW great job FC!!!!" ".................
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2008.11.13 13:57:00 - [93] Originally by: Terra Mikael Just like U-boats back in the day, they weren't well defended when they surfaced - but they had to surface to fire. From what I understand, even merchant ships during the time tried to ram them to take them out - so they were in grave danger just to take that one shot. Actually uboats were ones ramming merchant ships to save on torpedoes.
Jinshu German Kings Majesta Empire	Posted - 2008.11.13 13:58:00 - [94] Edited by: Jinshu on 13/11/2008 13:58:59 While i personally think SB combined with BOMBS really need an overhaul, i see nothing wrong with it's missle counterpart. 2 SB mirror a Raven in DMG, that is fine enough for me. 2 Frigs that combine to the Damage of a BS. In fact they have slightly less DPS but therefore 1/5 more alpha. The explosion velocity Bonus in fact makes the missiles more effective against different targets. In the last Alliance Tournament we saw a few SB gangs, that did quite well with the right support so i do not see why SB groups should not be viable on TQ in real combats. The problem most of the people here have is that they allways tend to look at 1v1 as stated before: "OH NOES my freighter just has no chance 1on1 against an industrial - clearly this must be wrong since freighter actually are the big brother of industrial and hell need a lot of more skills and bla and blubb" So maybe adding another few years in the game at one point it might actually get to you that 1on1 is not what ships are balanced about. They have an "intended" role most of you like to ignore. Especially those solo PVP "give me back my vaga own mobile" experts really do not make the cut most of the time. Yet when all this is said, i do not think SB's are totally fine. But the arguments you want to look for is NOT your 1on1 i loose to everything else argument. SB's have an incredible ability to strike from awesome distances for a frigate sized hull and do also have an awesome alpha strike. Combine this and you would have THE one "hit and run" strategy ship. However the "missiles do no damaged when cloaked" and the "bombs really still are useless, despite becoming cheaper" problems really mess the class up. So that is where we need to look at imho. ------------------------------------ The Game cannot be won, only played. ------------------------------------
Vigaz	Posted - 2008.11.13 14:05:00 - [95] Originally by: Murina Fine then to stick with that "u-boat" role they should be only useful against haulers and mining barges..... You should be hire by CCP, you have same quality ideas about SBs.
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.13 14:26:00 - [96] Originally by: Vigaz Originally by: Murina Fine then to stick with that "u-boat" role they should be only useful against haulers and mining barges..... You should be hire by CCP, you have same quality ideas about SBs. Cos a 1 shot 1 kill frig would be soooo balanced with the others.......... POST NERF PVP SKILLS: "shall we engage?" "hmmm how many ships do they have?" "more than us" "lets not bother then" "WOW great job FC!!!!" ".................
Terra Mikael Private Nuisance	Posted - 2008.11.13 14:30:00 - [97] Originally by: Murina Cos a 1 shot 1 kill frig would be soooo balanced with the others.......... So would a frig that coul perma-jam all other frigs, or a frig that could outrun all other frigs, or out-tank all other frigs... oh, wait...
Terra Mikael Private Nuisance	Posted - 2008.11.13 14:36:00 - [98] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Terra Mikael Just like U-boats back in the day, they weren't well defended when they surfaced - but they had to surface to fire. From what I understand, even merchant ships during the time tried to ram them to take them out - so they were in grave danger just to take that one shot. Actually uboats were ones ramming merchant ships to save on torpedoes. Interesting, that's the first I've heard of that. Seems kind of suicidal, tbh. But i'll have to check for instances of that - interesting stuff. Still, the point stands.
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.13 14:55:00 - [99] Edited by: Murina on 13/11/2008 15:05:10 Originally by: Terra Mikael Originally by: Murina Cos a 1 shot 1 kill frig would be soooo balanced with the others.......... So would a frig that coul perma-jam all other frigs, or a frig that could outrun all other frigs, or out-tank all other frigs... oh, wait... Out run all frigs but not missiles from a SB's 1 volley kill..... Jam but still go pop to the fired 1 volley from the SB..... Out tank all other frigs apart from the SB 1 volley...... Small ships are virtually immune to BS now due to the missile and gunnery stats so theirs no reason that the weapons should only be effective against BS sized targets. Cos lets be honest if your alpha is enough to insta pop a frig then its gonna be VERY good at 1 volleying cruisers and bigger when used even in small gangs and that = overpowered. But then thats what your after is it not.... POST NERF PVP SKILLS: "shall we engage?" "hmmm how many ships do they have?" "more than us" "lets not bother then" "WOW great job FC!!!!" ".................
Terra Mikael Private Nuisance	Posted - 2008.11.14 04:25:00 - [100] Originally by: Murina Out run all frigs but not missiles from a SB's 1 volley kill..... Jam but still go pop to the fired 1 volley from the SB..... Out tank all other frigs apart from the SB 1 volley...... Small ships are virtually immune to BS now due to the missile and gunnery stats so theirs no reason that the weapons should only be effective against BS sized targets. Cos lets be honest if your alpha is enough to insta pop a frig then its gonna be VERY good at 1 volleying cruisers and bigger when used even in small gangs and that = overpowered. But then thats what your after is it not.... Exaggerate much? I don't know where you get this "one volley every frig" thing. IT won't one volley assault frigates, or interceptors who are moving, or even t1 frigates that have a basic tank (for example, the Merlin). Check me out in battleclinic and see just what targets I can "one volley." Infact, scratch that. breath in for the moment that one volley only does about 100damage to an untanked frigate. that's pathetic. And i'm not asking for a solo pwn mobile - i'm asking for a role. You just like to use hyperbole and omg-the-sky-is-falling type responses and pretend they're actually bases in reality.

Hairy Pants Caldari The Incorporated Slavs	Posted - 2008.11.14 05:29:00 - [101] Originally by: CCP Nozh We did do changes to stealth bombers on our development servers, but we were in agreement with QA that we didn't have sufficient time to test the changes properly for Quantum Rise. In our test changes we removed the explosion radius bonus (moving them away from the "anti-small ship" role) and gave them a fair bonus to torpedo damage. We'll probably do some more changes to them and release them to Singularity when Quantum Rise is ready and deployed to Tranquility. OK, we'll adapt or cry again. But let me ask some cakes for stealths before this epic event: - 4th launcher slot; - role bonus for torpedo explosion radius (at least 50%); - bonus for target painters (+20% effectiveness per covert ops skill level); - bonus for torpedo damage (same as current cruise missile bonus or better); - bonus for covert ops cloaking device II (same as covert ops frigs); - no limitations for bomb launcher amount per bomber. I know, sometimes I need a mouth-rolling machine ;), but without some of these bonuses new torpedo stealth will be usable only for freighter ganking and/or POS killing.
DeadlyBob Minmatar MisInterpreted Teddy Bears	Posted - 2008.11.14 07:28:00 - [102] Yesterday I sat at a gate in a .4 system in my Manticore. I waited, and I waited. finally a bestower jumped in. I proceeded to uncloak lock and fire upon the bestower about 35km of distance, I warped out after a single volley from the sentries. My missiles connected and the bestower warped away after taking approximately 1750 damage. Now,a second volley would have killed the bestower. a second burst from the sentries would have killed me. I say to myself, ok well let's wait in a belt and see if we get any targets. So I wait, about an hour goes by (I'm busy cooking dinner) and a Harpy warps to my belt (looking for PVP targets or so he said later) I engage, firing two volleys before he closes distance and I have to cloak. My missiles hit for 27ish damage a piece totaling for less than 200. I cloak and run away I could do nothing else, I played my cards and his were better, I later reengaged in a thorax and crushed him... Ok so vs a small ship I was unable to do adequate damage to bring him into armor. Vs a medium ship, I was unable to kill it before having to escape. Vs a large ship I wouldn't even bother due to insufficient damage to begin with. Possible fixes. (In the end I suggest both (two different varieties of ships like the Retribution and the Vengeance for two separate roles)) First Stealth Fighter Ability to fit Covert ops Cloak Current damage and explosion bonuses 25%-50% bonus to ROF Everything else the same as it is currently This allows you to close with targets as you see fit, strike hard, and get off a second volley making it possible to tackle cruisers haulers frigates etc as well as packing enough punch to be dangerous to BS and BC class ships in groups. This would work to fit the current description. Option two Heavy Bomber 4 Siege Launchers ability to fit Covert ops Cloak 50% bonus to Torp Velocity 100% dmg bonus to racial Torp Damage 25% penalty to Siege launcher ROF (so it isn't a mini raven) Again the ability to move about as you see fit and engage what you believe you can kill. This time packing a slightly different Armament to engage larger targets. Completely ineffective vs say assault frigs yet very effective vs BC and BS class ships. This needs a bit of reworking I think possible ideas? Criticism? Flames? Neither night nor day can give me purchase. Only purged dust on earth can avenge the worthless.
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.14 08:02:00 - [103] Originally by: Terra Mikael Originally by: Murina Out run all frigs but not missiles from a SB's 1 volley kill..... Jam but still go pop to the fired 1 volley from the SB..... Out tank all other frigs apart from the SB 1 volley...... Small ships are virtually immune to BS now due to the missile and gunnery stats so theirs no reason that the weapons should only be effective against BS sized targets. Cos lets be honest if your alpha is enough to insta pop a frig then its gonna be VERY good at 1 volleying cruisers and bigger when used even in small gangs and that = overpowered. But then thats what your after is it not.... Exaggerate much? And i'm not asking for a solo pwn mobile - i'm asking for a role. You just like to use hyperbole and omg-the-sky-is-falling type responses and pretend they're actually bases in reality. Im not exaggerating i said clearly that ppl seem to want a SB to be able to 1 volley other frig class ships (and that would be way overpowered) and this was your response: Quote: So would a frig that coul perma-jam all other frigs, or a frig that could outrun all other frigs, or out-tank all other frigs... If it hit frigs hard it would hit destroyers and cruisers harder and that would make it overpowered as it uses BS sized weapons that should do little/NO dmg to frigs slight/ LOW dmg to cruisers and normal dmg to BS. That is the vision of pvp we have from ccp and that's why the entire nerf sucks imho. POST NERF PVP SKILLS: "shall we engage?" "hmmm how many ships do they have?" "more than us" "lets not bother then" "WOW great job FC!!!!" ".................
FlameGlow Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.14 08:24:00 - [104] Originally by: Murina If it hit frigs hard it would hit destroyers and cruisers harder and that would make it overpowered as it uses BS sized weapons that should do little/NO dmg to frigs slight/ LOW dmg to cruisers and normal dmg to BS. That is the vision of pvp we have from ccp and that's why the entire nerf sucks imho. It fits BS weapons and has role bonus to hit small ships for full damage. It failed at it before due to speed tanking and fails even harder now with new missile stats/formula. Bonuses must be revised to bring it up to task. Oh and CCP, boost the bloody bombs properly already, reducing their price by 1/3 is not much of a boost. Boost area of effect and revise launch mechanics so they could actually be usefull against blobs and not make a bomber suicide ship at least. Having bomb/rocket still do damage when bomber cloaks/warps would be a start. _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button.
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.14 08:38:00 - [105] Originally by: FlameGlow Originally by: Murina If it hit frigs hard it would hit destroyers and cruisers harder and that would make it overpowered as it uses BS sized weapons that should do little/NO dmg to frigs slight/ LOW dmg to cruisers and normal dmg to BS. That is the vision of pvp we have from ccp and that's why the entire nerf sucks imho. It fits BS weapons and has role bonus to hit small ships for full damage. It failed at it before due to speed tanking and fails even harder now with new missile stats/formula. Bonuses must be revised to bring it up to task. It would be way overpowered if it could solo alpha frigs as even in tiny gangs with that sort of bonus it could also alpha cruisers/hacs and in small gangs pop BC/BS ect ect. Its role needs changing as it breaks the "new weapon class pvp" idea ccp are pushing. POST NERF PVP SKILLS: "shall we engage?" "hmmm how many ships do they have?" "more than us" "lets not bother then" "WOW great job FC!!!!" ".................
Terra Mikael Private Nuisance	Posted - 2008.11.14 10:51:00 - [106] Edited by: Terra Mikael on 14/11/2008 10:56:06 Originally by: Murina It would be way overpowered if it could solo alpha frigs as even in tiny gangs with that sort of bonus it could also alpha cruisers/hacs and in small gangs pop BC/BS ect ect. Its role needs changing as it breaks the "new weapon class pvp" idea ccp are pushing. lol, are you serious? okay, lets pretend there are talented programmers working in CCP. and suppose they embark on the impossible task of creating a bomber that does a 3k alpha to small targets. This was pretty much what a high skilled, faction fitted bomber did before patch. No one argued that it was overpowered. It didn't "alpha cruisers/hacs and in small gangs pop BC/BS" as your slippery slop argument suggests. Now going back to these programmers, please explain how it will be totally impossible to return the bomber to its original role - because I would love to hear you explain how (exactly) insta-popping shuttles leads to a frigate that will solo dreadnoughts and entire fleets of BS, BC, CS, etc etc.(that's where you're going with this, amirite?) edit: now, before you answer with your usual diarrhea of the mouth, consider the fact that it isn't outside CCP's power to create an entirely new class of weapon unique to the bomber. also consider that a 3k alpha won't even cut through a cruiser's shields, let alone a tanked frigate, especially not an assault frigate, and probably won't kill a destroyer.
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.14 11:43:00 - [107] Originally by: Terra Mikael leads to a frigate that will solo dreadnoughts and entire fleets of BS, BC, CS, etc etc.(that's where you're going with this, amirite?) Hey look theres that verbal diarrhea your talking about. If you cannot have a discussion without resorting to total exaggeration and drooling idiocy please stfu. Originally by: Terra Mikael also consider that a 3k alpha won't even cut through a cruiser's shields, let alone a tanked frigate, especially not an assault frigate, and probably won't kill a destroyer. I had no idea ccp had made the game a solo 1 v 1 kinda deal, your right now you cannot have say 2 bombers (or more) uncloak and with no locking delay and dish out a raw 3k alpha strike each against any target in the game they must be fine...... I know your upset that the game no longer has a place for your favorite little toy but thems the breaks pal. POST NERF PVP SKILLS: "shall we engage?" "hmmm how many ships do they have?" "more than us" "lets not bother then" "WOW great job FC!!!!" ".................
FlameGlow Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:52:00 - [108] Originally by: Murina Originally by: Terra Mikael also consider that a 3k alpha won't even cut through a cruiser's shields, let alone a tanked frigate, especially not an assault frigate, and probably won't kill a destroyer. I had no idea ccp had made the game a solo 1 v 1 kinda deal, your right now you cannot have say 2 bombers (or more) uncloak and with no locking delay and dish out a raw 3k alpha strike each against any target in the game they must be fine...... I know your upset that the game no longer has a place for your favorite little toy but thems the breaks pal. Anything a bomber could alpha-strike an AF could shred to pieces without breaking a sweat. And in QR AFs are boosted nicely and bombers are nerfed by missile change, wtf? Oh, and did I mention that bombs still suck, despite being cheaper?
Terra Mikael Private Nuisance	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:54:00 - [109] Edited by: Terra Mikael on 14/11/2008 12:55:06 You know what, you're right. Before the patch, the bomber was just unstoppable. I seen one take out a raven and it's support fleet ship by ship. I'm glad they a nerfing the beast. seriously, Murina, all you've said is how allowing the bomber to be the same as it was will somehow cause roving gangs of omgwtfpwn frigates conquer the galaxy. Here's some examples: Originally by: Murina It would be way overpowered if it could solo alpha frigs as even in tiny gangs with that sort of bonus it could also alpha cruisers/hacs and in small gangs pop BC/BS ect ect. yeah, last time our fleet booster popped in that 600% bonus to missile damage warfare link, I nearly popped jita! Originally by: Murina If it hit frigs hard it would hit destroyers and cruisers harder and that would make it overpowered as it uses BS sized weapons that should do little/NO dmg to frigs slight/ LOW dmg to cruisers and normal dmg to BS. ...this just in...weapons meant to hit small targets have a less difficult time hitting larger targets...this...may be a serious liability if it goes live in the quantum rise patch...srsly. Originally by: Murina Out run all frigs but not missiles from a SB's 1 volley kill..... Jam but still go pop to the fired 1 volley from the SB..... Out tank all other frigs apart from the SB 1 volley...... Average distance for a stealth bombers attack: 100km Average speed of a cruise missile: 4k/sec Average firgate align time: 3 seconds Watching a frigate sit and observe a volley of missiles come towards it for 25 seconds and still manage to die: Priceless. Originally by: Murina Cos lets be honest if your alpha is enough to insta pop a frig then its gonna be VERY good at 1 volleying cruisers and bigger when used even in small gangs and that = overpowered. New to quantum rise, being in a gang automatically increases your firepower by a factor of 10 fold. sorry, it didn't make the patch notes. In other news, blobbing appears to be a mildly successful strategy, but only in groups
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.14 13:45:00 - [110] Originally by: Terra Mikael EEEEEMMMMMOOOOO RRRRAAAAGGGGGEEEE Ok calm down a little your getting delusional. 1. A frig that can hit another frig and everything alse for that matter for a alpha of 3000 dmg with BS sized weapons is no longer a option in the "new eve" its broken. 2. If a gang of these frigs with such high alpha strikes were to be allowed they could insta pop any conventional ship in the game relative to their numbers. 3. Just because a bomber can hit at a 100km and more does not mean it has to sit at 100km and fire it can sit at 20-30 uncloak fire and warp after its strike. Now im sure you will try to take what i just posted out of context as you did above and go major emo about it but its all the truth and your SB can not be uncloak/1 volley/pop mobiles. BS weapons should only do real dmg to BS now go away. POST NERF PVP SKILLS: "shall we engage?" "hmmm how many ships do they have?" "more than us" "lets not bother then" "WOW great job FC!!!!" ".................

DeadlyBob Minmatar MisInterpreted Teddy Bears	Posted - 2008.11.14 14:16:00 - [111] I'm sorry but have you ever even flown a Stealth Bomber? Murina next time you one volley a frigate that isn't sitting still packing miner 1's and blown up by like 5 target painters let me know. Did you read my post? The missiles hit for absolutely crap damage vs small ships and have a refire rate that makes it impossible to stay and fight. Secondly you seem to believe there are active 10-15 person gangs of SB's just floating around in space waiting to insta pop your mining Domi. It just isn't so, maybe if they didn't suck so hardcore you'd see groups of four or five flying out and about looking for trouble, but currently... it just isn't the case. Interceptor groups are far more common and deadly. In fact interceptors are far more deadly solo at this point. You're right, I'm taking what you've posted out of context and relating it to the way things actually play in game. Quote: Now im sure you will try to take what i just posted out of context as you did above and go major emo about it but its all the truth and your SB can not be uncloak/1 volley/pop mobiles. You do sound like the cutting type, these guys are trying for solutions to a problem, you are being very conservative. What change would you suggest to fix the blatant issues facing this boat? Oh I remember, you think the only roles frigates can have are already filled. You are right about one thing in that quote aside from not proofreading it. SB's are incapable of uncloaking and single volleying most targets. Additionally they are unable to remain in combat to continue spewing damage at a worthless rate of fire as the enemy closes and sadly enough, single volley's your SB. Oh perhaps you forgot to consider it isn't like you can keep your opponent still while you're firing at him in a SB anyway, any SB pilot fitting a Warp disruptor is a dead SB. Neither night nor day can give me purchase. Only purged dust on earth can avenge the worthless.
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.14 15:09:00 - [112] Edited by: Murina on 14/11/2008 15:11:37 Originally by: DeadlyBob I'm sorry but have you ever even flown a Stealth Bomber? Yes and i do not like them they are a poorly designed and thought out ship made initially i feel for new players to try and fast gank with. The entire concept of them is just stupid and narrow minded. Originally by: DeadlyBob Murina next time you one volley a frigate that isn't sitting still packing miner 1's and blown up by like 5 target painters let me know. And here is the bone of contention cos if you swallow your emo along with the other idiots you will see i was replying to somebody who WANTED SB's to be able to 1 volley frigates, i never claimed they actually could just that they should not be able to. So try reading fully in future. Originally by: DeadlyBob Secondly you seem to believe there are active 10-15 person gangs of SB's just floating around in space waiting to insta pop your mining Domi. Ok pal when your on over 2000 kills instead of 200 is the time to throw carebear insults about ok?. And even then its a good idea to know if your talking to a main or a alt. Originally by: DeadlyBob What change would you suggest to fix the blatant issues facing this boat? Oh I remember, you think the only roles frigates can have are already filled. That is the problem, i agree that SB needs a role or need to be trashed, but it should not be given BS sized weapons with BS sized alpha strikes against frigs no matter what is changed. The bomb idea could do with some fine tuning in effectiveness maybe by allowing the bombs to tank themselves a little better making it a better anti blob weapon/ship. But then you have the whole issue of it being a suicide ship or not...... But as far as a active 1 v X combat ship is concerned what kind of frig is NOT covered already by the ones we have. This is the problem cos ppl know what it shouldn't do, ppl know what it should have done pre-nerf. But now the nerf is here and the guide lines have been drawn so firmly by ccp the idea of a frig being given BS sized weapons and alpha strike that is effective against all sizes of ships is just crossing the line by a country mile.
Captator Universal Securities	Posted - 2008.11.14 15:15:00 - [113] Originally by: Murina Ok calm down a little your getting delusional. 1. A frig that can hit another frig and everything alse for that matter for a alpha of 3000 dmg with BS sized weapons is no longer a option in the "new eve" its broken. 2. If a gang of these frigs with such high alpha strikes were to be allowed they could insta pop any conventional ship in the game relative to their numbers. 3. Just because a bomber can hit at a 100km and more does not mean it has to sit at 100km and fire it can sit at 20-30 uncloak fire and warp after its strike. Now im sure you will try to take what i just posted out of context as you did above and go major emo about it but its all the truth and your SB can not be uncloak/1 volley/pop mobiles. BS weapons should only do real dmg to BS now go away. 1) Why? Also alpha is more like 2.5k, which is less than nearly all t1 frigates EHP with 1/2 decent skills. 2) They could do that before with their 'ludicrous' 3k alpha, so why weren't they used all the time... 3) True, but then you have no range buffer, and the usual mids of damps to protect you don't work as well/at all. Pre QR, you cannot 1 volley anything with a few resist mods or a plate/extender, you 3 volley untanked interceptors, and AFs can take 5+ volleys to kill if fitted well. Post QR, if they are restored to a similar effectiveness, what is the problem?
Tuncan Minmatar Arbitrary Freedom	Posted - 2008.11.14 16:50:00 - [114] Edited by: Tuncan on 14/11/2008 16:52:58 One shotting t1 frigs was useless anyway, they weren't any real threat. But this ship really needs a role,short range suicide bomber would be nice using the cloak decloak thingie btw murin u fail get a clue BS weapons should only do real dmg to BS now go away. this sentence is actually funny. Why would anyone use battleships then? A cruiser gang can easily kill a battleship can with what you have said. pfft guys like u make eve dull -.-
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.14 17:54:00 - [115] Originally by: Tuncan btw murin u fail get a clue U fail read the new patch notes BS weapons should only do real dmg to BS now go away. this sentence is actually funny. Originally by: Tuncan Why would anyone use battleships then? TYO FIGHT OTHER BS OFC, LIKE I SAID READ THE PATCH NOTES BS WEAPONS ARE NOW SUPPOSED TO ONLY DO FULL OR EVEN GOOD DMG TO SIMILAR SIZED SHIPS. Originally by: Tuncan A cruiser gang can easily kill a battleship can with what you have said. pfft guys like u make eve dull -.- Patches like this make even dull muppet, and im am and always was against them. PS: i suggest in future you read back and understand the context of the discussion and how the game is played and how weapon systems are supposed to work after this nerf.
ElCoCo KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.14 18:00:00 - [116] So you guys want to put 1-2-3 40mil citadel launchers on 5mil ships? It's bad enough the bombs are so crap even after their new cost decrease
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.11.14 18:19:00 - [117] Edited by: Jason Edwards on 14/11/2008 18:19:56 Cruise cant do much. Bombs arent feasible at all. Far far too expensive and large 75m3 is supposed to fit in a frigate? 30-50mil just to kill something. No other ship has to spend so much to be so effective. You want to move stealth bombers to torps? The hell.... You cant get within 15km of any ships while cloaked-uncloak-recloak. Meaning for torps to even be feasible instead of cruise.... You need what? To get a reasonable 70km range or so... you need a bonus of roughly 4000% That sounds absurd. On top of that... cruise vs torps as it is... limiting to 3 launchers... torps dont give you any better dps over cruise. We now can hit battleships and such for that same dps... we choose not to because it's pointless. So unless you are going to be giving stealth bombers bonuses of like 4000% to flighttime/missile velocity and like 25% more damage per level rather then 5% now. This will be a total nerf; and since stealth bombers are hardly used now... you only plan to make them unusable. Which is stupid. The obvious fix is a new launcher which can load citadel torps. Remove the required skills from the citadel torp ammo; make it solely Missle launcher op 1. Give us a explosion radius bonus for citadel torps that @ lvl 5 cov-op brings it down to roughly 450m With 3 citadels firing... you deal around 10,000 dmg; but the 30second rof on the citadel launcher makes the dps around 300 or so. Not overpowered. It has the ability to not only deal big damage to capitals and pos modules. but with max skills it can deal good damage to a bs. ------------------------ Have you fed your slaves recently? -BRB Rens
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.11.14 18:21:00 - [118] Infact due to it's size. A dread for example wouldnt necessarily be able to deal with a stealth bomber up close. ------------------------ Have you fed your slaves recently? -BRB Rens
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.14 18:22:00 - [119] Originally by: Jason Edwards Infact due to it's size. A dread for example wouldnt necessarily be able to deal with a stealth bomber up close. Try my warrior II's in my moros bud with its bonuses they would melt a cruiser let alone a frig. POST NERF PVP SKILLS: "shall we engage?" "hmmm how many ships do they have?" "more than us" "lets not bother then" "WOW great job FC!!!!" ".................
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.11.14 18:23:00 - [120] Originally by: ElCoCo So you guys want to put 1-2-3 40mil citadel launchers on 5mil ships? It's bad enough the bombs are so crap even after their new cost decrease citadel launchers are heavy, big, and heavy on skill requirements. If you simply design a new launcher; with low skills, low cost, lowish size. This launcher being able to launch citadels. Also it has to have like 10,000 cpu and the stealth bombers get fitting bonus obviously. ------------------------ Have you fed your slaves recently? -BRB Rens



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