Originally by: Crellion

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I have never failed to kill a stealh bomber in a ceptor in TQ. Ever.Let alone Sisy

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Originally by: The Vixen

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Edited by: The Vixen on 06/11/2008 15:52:45
Stealth Bombers are not meant to be anti-frig ships. Cruise missiles are supposed to attack large targets. BC/BS. They will still do some damage to cruisers, but the objective is to have a ship that is agile, stealthy and not huge, but can still attack large ships. They were implemented, because at the time, the ONLY thing people PVP'd in were BS's. If you didnt fly a BS you were fail. SBs are broken on TQ atm, and hopefully the speed-revamp will put BS's closer to where they were intended to be.

People seriously need to quit complaining about ships and go back and READ the initial intentional design/role of the ship.

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Originally by: Hugh Ruka

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I am very curios how you kill a t1 cruiser in a bomber ? like a Caracal f.e ? or a Vexor ?

an SB is a fat and slow frigate with low DPS (better than frig, but still not enough).

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Originally by: Hugh Ruka

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I am very curios how you kill a t1 cruiser in a bomber ? like a Caracal f.e ? or a Vexor ?

an SB is a fat and slow frigate with low DPS (better than frig, but still not enough).

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Uhm he never said to solo a cruiser. And yeah a SB can quite easily kill a t1 cruiser if it is tackled by something else.

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Originally by: Takon Orlani

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Edited by: Takon Orlani on 06/11/2008 17:04:08
Hopefully we can get the bomber to be buffed or the missile changes as they are on SiSi will NOT roll over in their current form. I can only hope for the latter. Missiles suck for pvp as it is, they don't need to suck any more. Frigates, interceptors, and the vaga aside, no ship should be able to outrun missiles fired from a missile spec'd ship.

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Originally by: The Vixen

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Edited by: The Vixen on 06/11/2008 15:52:45
Stealth Bombers are not meant to be anti-frig ships. Cruise missiles are supposed to attack large targets. BC/BS. They will still do some damage to cruisers, but the objective is to have a ship that is agile, stealthy and not huge, but can still attack large ships. They were implemented, because at the time, the ONLY thing people PVP'd in were BS's. If you didnt fly a BS you were fail. SBs are broken on TQ atm, and hopefully the speed-revamp will put BS's closer to where they were intended to be.

People seriously need to quit complaining about ships and go back and READ the initial intentional design/role of the ship.

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Interceptors can't outrun light missiles on sisi, cruisers can't outrun heavy missiles on sisi, battleships can't outrun cruise missiles on sisi.

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Originally by: Hugh Ruka

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Originally by: Hugh Ruka

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I am very curios how you kill a t1 cruiser in a bomber ? like a Caracal f.e ? or a Vexor ?

an SB is a fat and slow frigate with low DPS (better than frig, but still not enough).

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Uhm he never said to solo a cruiser. And yeah a SB can quite easily kill a t1 cruiser if it is tackled by something else.

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well you can kill a titan given enough velators ... but that's not the point ...

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Originally by: GateScout

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Edited by: GateScout on 06/11/2008 19:41:41

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Interceptors can't outrun light missiles on sisi, cruisers can't outrun heavy missiles on sisi, battleships can't outrun cruise missiles on sisi.

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Light missile explosion velocity is somewhere around 250m/s on SiSi right now (w/ decent skills....IIRC).

Max velocity? Less than 5km/sec....with skills...

I think most ceptor pilots will be able to outrun lights....and even if they cannot, they won't take any damage from them.

Below is a screenshot from SiSi. Check out that explosion velocity.



EDIT: As for Stealth Bombers... Post-patch they will be generally worthless...unless they are buffed some way.

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Originally by: WasahB

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Originally by: The Vixen

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Edited by: The Vixen on 06/11/2008 15:52:45
Stealth Bombers are not meant to be anti-frig ships. Cruise missiles are supposed to attack large targets. BC/BS. They will still do some damage to cruisers, but the objective is to have a ship that is agile, stealthy and not huge, but can still attack large ships. They were implemented, because at the time, the ONLY thing people PVP'd in were BS's. If you didnt fly a BS you were fail. SBs are broken on TQ atm, and hopefully the speed-revamp will put BS's closer to where they were intended to be.

People seriously need to quit complaining about ships and go back and READ the initial intentional design/role of the ship.

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http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/EN/ships/covertops/caldari/12032.asp
"In addition, stealth bombers' extremely advanced missile navigation subroutines are able to triangulate a cruise missile's trajectory in advance, resulting in a decreased factor of signature radius and making the missile more effective against smaller targets."

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Originally by: Hugh Ruka

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Originally by: The Vixen

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Edited by: The Vixen on 06/11/2008 15:52:45
Stealth Bombers are not meant to be anti-frig ships. Cruise missiles are supposed to attack large targets. BC/BS. They will still do some damage to cruisers, but the objective is to have a ship that is agile, stealthy and not huge, but can still attack large ships. They were implemented, because at the time, the ONLY thing people PVP'd in were BS's. If you didnt fly a BS you were fail. SBs are broken on TQ atm, and hopefully the speed-revamp will put BS's closer to where they were intended to be.

People seriously need to quit complaining about ships and go back and READ the initial intentional design/role of the ship.

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I am very curios how you kill a t1 cruiser in a bomber ? like a Caracal f.e ? or a Vexor ?

an SB is a fat and slow frigate with low DPS (better than frig, but still not enough).

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Quote:

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This game is about creating dynamic fleets, finding the edge, taking the higher ground and outsmarting your enemies... not enemy.

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Originally by: Soporo

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Quote:

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This game is about creating dynamic fleets, finding the edge, taking the higher ground and outsmarting your enemies... not enemy.

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Waiting to get fleet together, getting on TS, becoming an extended drone for some FC whos shucking and jiveing with an enemy FC's blob for 15 systems.
Blobbing up in other words.

Gee, a Nul-seccers dream come true.

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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LIGHT MISSILES HIT FRIGATES. DO NOT LIE. The person I quoted said that missiles are outrun on sisi. It is a blatant lie. End of story. Your explosion velocities have nothing to do with it.

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Interceptors can't outrun light missiles on sisi, cruisers can't outrun heavy missiles on sisi, battleships can't outrun cruise missiles on sisi.

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Originally by: GateScout

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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LIGHT MISSILES HIT FRIGATES. DO NOT LIE. The person I quoted said that missiles are outrun on sisi. It is a blatant lie. End of story. Your explosion velocities have nothing to do with it.

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Lie? WTF are you talking about?

First of all, you were talking about interceptors...not frigs.

Let me remind you:

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Interceptors can't outrun light missiles on sisi, cruisers can't outrun heavy missiles on sisi, battleships can't outrun cruise missiles on sisi.

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Secondly, the default max velocity of a light missile is 3,750m/s. Anything that goes faster than that will outrun that missile. Can a ceptor on SiSi exceed 5km/sec? Yep.

Thirdly, explosion velocity is important as it doesn't matter if a ship cannot, in fact, outrun a missile if it doesn't do any damage.

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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1. Max velocity of a light missile is modified by skills
2. Orbit speed of an inty realistically (ie, no snakes and comedy pure speed fits) more like 4km/s on sisi and is below max light missile speed
3. The missile damage formula has been altered: read and weep
4. A light missile actually does around 20-30% of its max damage on an average inty in orbit. This can be boosted by ship bonuses and/or rigs also.

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Originally by: Hugh Ruka

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Originally by: Hugh Ruka

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I am very curios how you kill a t1 cruiser in a bomber ? like a Caracal f.e ? or a Vexor ?

an SB is a fat and slow frigate with low DPS (better than frig, but still not enough).

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Uhm he never said to solo a cruiser. And yeah a SB can quite easily kill a t1 cruiser if it is tackled by something else.

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well you can kill a titan given enough velators ... but that's not the point ...

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But you accused him of saying a bombers would kill a T1 cruiser when he didn't.

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Originally by: The Vixen

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Originally by: Hugh Ruka

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Originally by: The Vixen

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Edited by: The Vixen on 06/11/2008 15:52:45
Stealth Bombers are not meant to be anti-frig ships. Cruise missiles are supposed to attack large targets. BC/BS. They will still do some damage to cruisers, but the objective is to have a ship that is agile, stealthy and not huge, but can still attack large ships. They were implemented, because at the time, the ONLY thing people PVP'd in were BS's. If you didnt fly a BS you were fail. SBs are broken on TQ atm, and hopefully the speed-revamp will put BS's closer to where they were intended to be.

People seriously need to quit complaining about ships and go back and READ the initial intentional design/role of the ship.

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I am very curios how you kill a t1 cruiser in a bomber ? like a Caracal f.e ? or a Vexor ?

an SB is a fat and slow frigate with low DPS (better than frig, but still not enough).

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Yeah, because this game is entirely focused on 1on1 ship fighting. Why does everyone boil arguments down to 1v1. What is the actual percentage that ANY fight starts (AND ENDS) 1v1. This game is about creating dynamic fleets, finding the edge, taking the higher ground and outsmarting your enemies... not enemy.

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Originally by: Murk Loar

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On a side note,I decided to test against some NPCs (I know..NPCs) with a Manti.

Still instapops the frigs and now Im instapopping the destroyers where as before it was taking 2 volleys for them,NPC BCs are now dropping in 4 volleys as opposed to 5.Damage seems to up per missile from what I can tell but I may be wrong.

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Originally by: Straight Chillen

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Seriously i dont what the hell you lot are going on about, But the stealth bomber is going to be even better after this patch.

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Originally by: Crellion

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The only way in which bombers would be a serious ship is if they had a class bonus effectively negating completely explosion velocity and explosion radius problems for all but the very tiniest of targets and the fastestof targets that would get a maximum of 50% reduction.

I have never failed to kill a stealh bomber in a ceptor in TQ. Ever.Let alone Sisy

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Originally by: Zakru Anul

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on SIsi the Bomber is worthless. when i Fire 3 missiles at a T1 unfit frig moving at it's base speed and it lives something is More than wrong.

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Originally by: Murina

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PPL want a frig that can 1 volley other frigs and ships, do we have a class of cruisers that can 1 volley other cruisers or BC that can 1 volley other BC or even BS that can 1 volley other BS?.

With this "new eve" the idea behind the bomber is broken as it uses BS sized weapons but ppl think it should hit and insta pop frigs and things, it should not it should only hit BS for full missile dmg and have the same drawbacks against smaller ships that other cruise missile ships do.

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Originally by: Terra Mikael

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Just reading your post I can tell you've never flown a bomber. It is so hard to get that one shot kill that it is nearly impossible. even with top skills, you can't one shot an assault ship, or even a well tanked T1 frig or destroyer.

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Originally by: Zakru Anul

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on SIsi the Bomber is worthless. when i Fire 3 missiles at a T1 unfit frig moving at it's base speed and it lives something is More than wrong.

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Originally by: Terra Mikael

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...then it's a 15mil ISK suicide vessel that can accomplish nothing. You might as well fit it, undock, and initiate self destruct - it would accomplish the same thing, much , much faster....

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Originally by: Terra Mikael

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True, it is a balance. Give us more tank, take some firepower.

If they hit live now, we will have neither.

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Originally by: Murina

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Edited by: Murina on 10/11/2008 11:31:06
Edited by: Murina on 10/11/2008 11:29:04

Originally by: Terra Mikael

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True, it is a balance. Give us more tank, take some firepower.

If they hit live now, we will have neither.

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Sure, fly a AF.....

you cannot have a monster alpha, plus good tank, plus good dps along with the ability to drop bombs all in one frig pal or it would make all the others pointless .

Like i said bombers break the mold ccp wants eve to become.

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Originally by: Terra Mikael

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Originally by: Terra Mikael

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True, it is a balance. Give us more tank, take some firepower.

If they hit live now, we will have neither.

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Sure, fly a AF.....

you cannot have a monster alpha, plus good tank, plus good dps along with the ability to drop bombs all in one frig pal or it would make all the others pointless .

Like i said bombers break the mold ccp wants eve to become.

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Originally by: Murina

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I flew the nemisis when the first came out but my missile sakills are a little lacking.

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Originally by: Terra Mikael

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So I'm guessing you don't know about the problems with bombs (its basically a suicide run), and they can only be used in zero sec. Not only that, but if you cloak, your bomb becomes a 10 million dollar paperweight. Same with missiles.

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Originally by: Terra Mikael

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We will have no gank (cruise missiles vs frigates are useless now) and not enough to bother cruisers. But we have no tank.

So where does that leave the SB?

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Originally by: Murina

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Edited by: Murina on 10/11/2008 11:59:52

Originally by: Terra Mikael

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So I'm guessing you don't know about the problems with bombs (its basically a suicide run), and they can only be used in zero sec. Not only that, but if you cloak, your bomb becomes a 10 million dollar paperweight. Same with missiles.

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I knew all that as we spent a lot of time on the test server working in groups of 20-30+ laying down pattern's around gates to see how well it worked as a anti-blob weapon against invasions. (Blob jumps in, we uncloak, drop bombs in a set pattern around the gate, blob goes boom, server crashes).

Originally by: Terra Mikael

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We will have no gank (cruise missiles vs frigates are useless now) and not enough to bother cruisers. But we have no tank.

So where does that leave the SB?

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Its a problem as i said, maybe they just added way to many frig classes and have run out of viable options and a role for the SB due to this new nerf.

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Originally by: CCP Nozh

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We did do changes to stealth bombers on our development servers, but we were in agreement with QA that we didn't have sufficient time to test the changes properly for Quantum Rise.

In our test changes we removed the explosion radius bonus (moving them away from the "anti-small ship" role) and gave them a fair bonus to torpedo damage. We'll probably do some more changes to them and release them to Singularity when Quantum Rise is ready and deployed to Tranquility.

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Originally by: FireFoxx80

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Isn't that just moving them further from their intended role?

Considering that a torpedo won't be able to hit the broad side of a barn* in Quantum Rise, and that most battleship sized ships can take a few dozen torps, doesn't that make SB's more pointless?

*unless that barn happens to be 450m or so in length on it's broad size.

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Originally by: CCP Nozh

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We did do changes to stealth bombers on our development servers, but we were in agreement with QA that we didn't have sufficient time to test the changes properly for Quantum Rise.

In our test changes we removed the explosion radius bonus (moving them away from the "anti-small ship" role) and gave them a fair bonus to torpedo damage. We'll probably do some more changes to them and release them to Singularity when Quantum Rise is ready and deployed to Tranquility.

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Originally by: HEXXX

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In all seriousness; I think I made a miscalculation originally. . . We either need to fix this or fix our advertising.

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Originally by: CCP Nozh

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We did do changes to stealth bombers on our development servers, but we were in agreement with QA that we didn't have sufficient time to test the changes properly for Quantum Rise.

In our test changes we removed the explosion radius bonus (moving them away from the "anti-small ship" role) and gave them a fair bonus to torpedo damage. We'll probably do some more changes to them and release them to Singularity when Quantum Rise is ready and deployed to Tranquility.

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Originally by: CCP Nozh

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In our test changes we removed the explosion radius bonus (moving them away from the "anti-small ship" role) and gave them a fair bonus to torpedo damage. We'll probably do some more changes to them and release them to Singularity when Quantum Rise is ready and deployed to Tranquility.

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Originally by: CCP Nozh

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We did do changes to stealth bombers on our development servers, but we were in agreement with QA that we didn't have sufficient time to test the changes properly for Quantum Rise.

In our test changes we removed the explosion radius bonus (moving them away from the "anti-small ship" role) and gave them a fair bonus to torpedo damage. We'll probably do some more changes to them and release them to Singularity when Quantum Rise is ready and deployed to Tranquility.

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100 * MIN(MIN(65/40,1) , (096.6/40 * 65/x)^(0.1975 * 4.5));
100 * MIN(MIN(65*1.36/40,1) , (096.6/40 * 65*1.36/x)^(0.1975 * 4.5));
100 * MIN(MIN(65*1.36*1.3129/40,1) , (096.6/40 * 65*1.36*1.3129/x)^(0.1975 * 4.5));

Originally by: CCP Nozh

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In our test changes we removed the explosion radius bonus (moving them away from the "anti-small ship" role) and gave them a fair bonus to torpedo damage. We'll probably do some more changes to them and release them to Singularity when Quantum Rise is ready and deployed to Tranquility.

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Originally by: CCP Nozh

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We did do changes to stealth bombers on our development servers, but we were in agreement with QA that we didn't have sufficient time to test the changes properly for Quantum Rise.

In our test changes we removed the explosion radius bonus (moving them away from the "anti-small ship" role) and gave them a fair bonus to torpedo damage. We'll probably do some more changes to them and release them to Singularity when Quantum Rise is ready and deployed to Tranquility.

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Originally by: dojocan81

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Originally by: CCP Nozh

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We did do changes to stealth bombers on our development servers, but we were in agreement with QA that we didn't have sufficient time to test the changes properly for Quantum Rise.

In our test changes we removed the explosion radius bonus (moving them away from the "anti-small ship" role) and gave them a fair bonus to torpedo damage. We'll probably do some more changes to them and release them to Singularity when Quantum Rise is ready and deployed to Tranquility.

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torps on SB ?!?

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Originally by: Tac Ginaz

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2 citadels + 1 bomb (9k dmg) or 3 citadels (6k dmg) = excellent alpha damage, point blank attack craft without it single-shotting BS sized targets.

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Originally by: CCP Nozh

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We did do changes to stealth bombers on our development servers, but we were in agreement with QA that we didn't have sufficient time to test the changes properly for Quantum Rise.

In our test changes we removed the explosion radius bonus (moving them away from the "anti-small ship" role) and gave them a fair bonus to torpedo damage. We'll probably do some more changes to them and release them to Singularity when Quantum Rise is ready and deployed to Tranquility.

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Originally by: CCP Nozh

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We did do changes to stealth bombers on our development servers, but we were in agreement with QA that we didn't have sufficient time to test the changes properly for Quantum Rise.

In our test changes we removed the explosion radius bonus (moving them away from the "anti-small ship" role) and gave them a fair bonus to torpedo damage. We'll probably do some more changes to them and release them to Singularity when Quantum Rise is ready and deployed to Tranquility.

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Originally by: CCP Nozh

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We did do changes to stealth bombers on our development servers, but we were in agreement with QA that we didn't have sufficient time to test the changes properly for Quantum Rise.

In our test changes we removed the explosion radius bonus (moving them away from the "anti-small ship" role) and gave them a fair bonus to torpedo damage. We'll probably do some more changes to them and release them to Singularity when Quantum Rise is ready and deployed to Tranquility.

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Originally by: AK Shaman

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no freaking torpedos pls! JUST FIX SB as universal small/large target ship

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Originally by: Murina

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SB have BS sized weapons and so should only dmg BS sized ships its that simple and that's their niche.

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Originally by: Murina

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SB have BS sized weapons and so should only dmg BS sized ships its that simple and that's their niche.

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Originally by: Terra Mikael

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Edited by: Terra Mikael on 13/11/2008 12:59:48

Originally by: Murina

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SB have BS sized weapons and so should only dmg BS sized ships its that simple and that's their niche.

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Seriously QFT.

Arguing that the SB's role is attacking battleships is like arguing that your niche is art because you occasionally finger paint with human fe-ces.

What I'm trying to say is that going through all the motions means jack sh!t unless you actually accomplish something (i.e. selling your painting or killing a BS).

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Originally by: Murina

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Originally by: Terra Mikael

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Edited by: Terra Mikael on 13/11/2008 12:59:48

Originally by: Murina

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SB have BS sized weapons and so should only dmg BS sized ships its that simple and that's their niche.

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Seriously QFT.

Arguing that the SB's role is attacking battleships is like arguing that your niche is art because you occasionally finger paint with human fe-ces.

What I'm trying to say is that going through all the motions means jack sh!t unless you actually accomplish something (i.e. selling your painting or killing a BS).

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So what should the SB role be?..1 volleying frigs? (making all other frigs pointless)..taking cruisers into hull with 1 volley...can you say overpowered?.

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Originally by: Terra Mikael

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Originally by: Murina

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Originally by: Terra Mikael

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Edited by: Terra Mikael on 13/11/2008 12:59:48

Originally by: Murina

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SB have BS sized weapons and so should only dmg BS sized ships its that simple and that's their niche.

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Seriously QFT.

Arguing that the SB's role is attacking battleships is like arguing that your niche is art because you occasionally finger paint with human fe-ces.

What I'm trying to say is that going through all the motions means jack sh!t unless you actually accomplish something (i.e. selling your painting or killing a BS).

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So what should the SB role be?..1 volleying frigs? (making all other frigs pointless)..taking cruisers into hull with 1 volley...can you say overpowered?.

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I think you're putting words in my mouth. My stance has been that it has no role and you've been trolling here for lulz.

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Originally by: Murina

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It aint broken there is just no room or role for it cos of the sheer amount of bloody frig class ships in the game.

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Originally by: Terra Mikael

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Just like U-boats back in the day, they weren't well defended when they surfaced - but they had to surface to fire. From what I understand, even merchant ships during the time tried to ram them to take them out - so they were in grave danger just to take that one shot.

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Originally by: Murina

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Fine then to stick with that "u-boat" role they should be only useful against haulers and mining barges.....

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Originally by: Vigaz

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Originally by: Murina

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Fine then to stick with that "u-boat" role they should be only useful against haulers and mining barges.....

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You should be hire by CCP, you have same quality ideas about SBs.

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Originally by: Murina

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Cos a 1 shot 1 kill frig would be soooo balanced with the others..........

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Originally by: Deva Blackfire

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Originally by: Terra Mikael

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Just like U-boats back in the day, they weren't well defended when they surfaced - but they had to surface to fire. From what I understand, even merchant ships during the time tried to ram them to take them out - so they were in grave danger just to take that one shot.

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Actually uboats were ones ramming merchant ships to save on torpedoes.

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Originally by: Terra Mikael

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Originally by: Murina

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Cos a 1 shot 1 kill frig would be soooo balanced with the others..........

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So would a frig that coul perma-jam all other frigs, or a frig that could outrun all other frigs, or out-tank all other frigs...

oh, wait...

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Originally by: Murina

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Out run all frigs but not missiles from a SB's 1 volley kill.....
Jam but still go pop to the fired 1 volley from the SB.....
Out tank all other frigs apart from the SB 1 volley......

Small ships are virtually immune to BS now due to the missile and gunnery stats so theirs no reason that the weapons should only be effective against BS sized targets.

Cos lets be honest if your alpha is enough to insta pop a frig then its gonna be VERY good at 1 volleying cruisers and bigger when used even in small gangs and that = overpowered.

But then thats what your after is it not....

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Originally by: CCP Nozh

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We did do changes to stealth bombers on our development servers, but we were in agreement with QA that we didn't have sufficient time to test the changes properly for Quantum Rise.

In our test changes we removed the explosion radius bonus (moving them away from the "anti-small ship" role) and gave them a fair bonus to torpedo damage. We'll probably do some more changes to them and release them to Singularity when Quantum Rise is ready and deployed to Tranquility.

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Originally by: Terra Mikael

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Originally by: Murina

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Out run all frigs but not missiles from a SB's 1 volley kill.....
Jam but still go pop to the fired 1 volley from the SB.....
Out tank all other frigs apart from the SB 1 volley......

Small ships are virtually immune to BS now due to the missile and gunnery stats so theirs no reason that the weapons should only be effective against BS sized targets.

Cos lets be honest if your alpha is enough to insta pop a frig then its gonna be VERY good at 1 volleying cruisers and bigger when used even in small gangs and that = overpowered.

But then thats what your after is it not....

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Exaggerate much?

And i'm not asking for a solo pwn mobile - i'm asking for a role.

You just like to use hyperbole and omg-the-sky-is-falling type responses and pretend they're actually bases in reality.

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Quote:

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So would a frig that coul perma-jam all other frigs, or a frig that could outrun all other frigs, or out-tank all other frigs...

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Originally by: Murina

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If it hit frigs hard it would hit destroyers and cruisers harder and that would make it overpowered as it uses BS sized weapons that should do little/NO dmg to frigs slight/ LOW dmg to cruisers and normal dmg to BS.

That is the vision of pvp we have from ccp and that's why the entire nerf sucks imho.

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Originally by: FlameGlow

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Originally by: Murina

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If it hit frigs hard it would hit destroyers and cruisers harder and that would make it overpowered as it uses BS sized weapons that should do little/NO dmg to frigs slight/ LOW dmg to cruisers and normal dmg to BS.

That is the vision of pvp we have from ccp and that's why the entire nerf sucks imho.

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It fits BS weapons and has role bonus to hit small ships for full damage. It failed at it before due to speed tanking and fails even harder now with new missile stats/formula. Bonuses must be revised to bring it up to task.

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Originally by: Murina

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It would be way overpowered if it could solo alpha frigs as even in tiny gangs with that sort of bonus it could also alpha cruisers/hacs and in small gangs pop BC/BS ect ect.

Its role needs changing as it breaks the "new weapon class pvp" idea ccp are pushing.

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Originally by: Terra Mikael

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leads to a frigate that will solo dreadnoughts and entire fleets of BS, BC, CS, etc etc.(that's where you're going with this, amirite?)

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Originally by: Terra Mikael

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also consider that a 3k alpha won't even cut through a cruiser's shields, let alone a tanked frigate, especially not an assault frigate, and probably won't kill a destroyer.

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Originally by: Murina

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Originally by: Terra Mikael

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also consider that a 3k alpha won't even cut through a cruiser's shields, let alone a tanked frigate, especially not an assault frigate, and probably won't kill a destroyer.

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I had no idea ccp had made the game a solo 1 v 1 kinda deal, your right now you cannot have say 2 bombers (or more) uncloak and with no locking delay and dish out a raw 3k alpha strike each against any target in the game they must be fine......

I know your upset that the game no longer has a place for your favorite little toy but thems the breaks pal.

---

Originally by: Murina

---

It would be way overpowered if it could solo alpha frigs as even in tiny gangs with that sort of bonus it could also alpha cruisers/hacs and in small gangs pop BC/BS ect ect.

---

Originally by: Murina

---

If it hit frigs hard it would hit destroyers and cruisers harder and that would make it overpowered as it uses BS sized weapons that should do little/NO dmg to frigs slight/ LOW dmg to cruisers and normal dmg to BS.

---

Originally by: Murina

---

Out run all frigs but not missiles from a SB's 1 volley kill.....
Jam but still go pop to the fired 1 volley from the SB.....
Out tank all other frigs apart from the SB 1 volley......

---

Originally by: Murina

---

Cos lets be honest if your alpha is enough to insta pop a frig then its gonna be VERY good at 1 volleying cruisers and bigger when used even in small gangs and that = overpowered.

---

Originally by: Terra Mikael

---

EEEEEMMMMMOOOOO RRRRAAAAGGGGGEEEE

---

Quote:

---

Now im sure you will try to take what i just posted out of context as you did above and go major emo about it but its all the truth and your SB can not be uncloak/1 volley/pop mobiles.

---

Originally by: DeadlyBob

---

I'm sorry but have you ever even flown a Stealth Bomber?

---

Originally by: DeadlyBob

---

Murina next time you one volley a frigate that isn't sitting still packing miner 1's and blown up by like 5 target painters let me know.

---

Originally by: DeadlyBob

---

Secondly you seem to believe there are active 10-15 person gangs of SB's just floating around in space waiting to insta pop your mining Domi.

---

Originally by: DeadlyBob

---

What change would you suggest to fix the blatant issues facing this boat? Oh I remember, you think the only roles frigates can have are already filled.

---

Originally by: Murina

---

Ok calm down a little your getting delusional.

1. A frig that can hit another frig and everything alse for that matter for a alpha of 3000 dmg with BS sized weapons is no longer a option in the "new eve" its broken.

2. If a gang of these frigs with such high alpha strikes were to be allowed they could insta pop any conventional ship in the game relative to their numbers.

3. Just because a bomber can hit at a 100km and more does not mean it has to sit at 100km and fire it can sit at 20-30 uncloak fire and warp after its strike.

Now im sure you will try to take what i just posted out of context as you did above and go major emo about it but its all the truth and your SB can not be uncloak/1 volley/pop mobiles.


BS weapons should only do real dmg to BS now go away.

---

Originally by: Tuncan

---

btw murin u fail
get a clue

---

Originally by: Tuncan

---

Why would anyone use battleships then?

---

Originally by: Tuncan

---

A cruiser gang can easily kill a battleship can with what you have said.
pfft guys like u make eve dull -.-

---

Originally by: Jason Edwards

---

Infact due to it's size. A dread for example wouldnt necessarily be able to deal with a stealth bomber up close.

---

Originally by: ElCoCo

---

So you guys want to put 1-2-3 40mil citadel launchers on 5mil ships?

It's bad enough the bombs are so crap even after their new cost decrease

---

Originally by: Murina

---

A frig that can...

---

Originally by: Sileam

---

It's a frig worth aprox. 20 mil (with the equip) WITHOUT insurance, with paper tank, low speed and no ways to defend.

So please Murina - quit this thread.
You don't FLY Stealth bombers.
You don't KNOW Stealth bombers.
You don't have any EXPIRIENCE with Stealth bombers.

---

Originally by: Sileam

---

Lets imagine that a small gang of SBs is trying to kill a BS. How many of them will get killed in the process? 3? 4? Maybe even 5. Thats 60-100 mil of ISK that will not get returned by the insurance. And they have a chance to kill that BS if he is flying solo... A solo BS aware of the enemy presence (no Cov Ops Cloak on the SB...) setting ready to get killed? Good luck

---

Originally by: Sileam

---

So whats broken here?

---

Originally by: Murina

---

I know that plonking a dread sized launcher on one or redesigning a dread sized launcher to fit one is about the level of sense that i get from my child's pet frog.

---

Originally by: Murina

---

Originally by: Sileam

---

So whats broken here?

---

You...cos you seem to be looking to design a FRIG that in a smallish gang you can all uncloak and with 1 volley each pop any conventional ship in the game then scarper....

Oh and now on TQ a frig can easily evade the dmg from a BS especially a gang of frigs as they can warp off from the drones and the guns will not even hit them, while a raven may do minor dmg but not enough to stop them from aligning and warping in plenty of time.

And that is now how eve is to be played, well according to ccp and their latest nerfs anyway so your uber alpha frig no longer has a weak tank against solo BS, you should really try to keep abreast of the changes to eve if your gonna ask for buffs to ships.

---

Originally by: Captator

---

The purpose of the bomber is to in groups of sufficient number, be able to decloak and 1 volley a given target. Noone is asking for a buff, they are asking for it to be restored to its former effectiveness.

---

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

---

Are we going to see bombs buffed? I mean the problem of the SB is not the cruise missiles. The problem is that they are not doing their intended role, which is to bomb blobs.

---

Originally by: Murina

---

Edited by: Murina on 14/11/2008 21:35:29

Originally by: Captator

---

The purpose of the bomber is to in groups of sufficient number, be able to decloak and 1 volley a given target. Noone is asking for a buff, they are asking for it to be restored to its former effectiveness.

---

Enough ships of any sort can do that, the bomber just has the advantage of not losing and locking delay or time after it drops its cloak (a rather large advantage tbh and one even recons do not get).

Its so called former effectiveness would be overpowered in the all new and considerably slower eve, i am not sure the idea of its dmg ratio/ alpha strike fits in eve any more considering the ship size and i think it may need switching to a pure bomb ship instead.

---

Originally by: Murina

---

Originally by: Jason Edwards

---

Infact due to it's size. A dread for example wouldnt necessarily be able to deal with a stealth bomber up close.

---

Try my warrior II's in my moros bud with its bonuses they would melt a cruiser let alone a frig.

---

Originally by: Straight Chillen

---

Putting torps OR citadel launchers on Bombers is such a stupid idea i can't even fathom why they would even think about it.

---

Originally by: Terra Mikael

---

Originally by: Murina

---

Originally by: Jason Edwards

---

Infact due to it's size. A dread for example wouldnt necessarily be able to deal with a stealth bomber up close.

---

Try my warrior II's in my moros bud with its bonuses they would melt a cruiser let alone a frig.

---

lol, yeah, if that darn frig sticks around for the 2 minutes it takes for you to get a lock, right?

I think its pretty much unanimous: you fail on every count, Murina. Epically.

---

Originally by: DeadlyBob

---

The idea is simple. The frigate moves in cloaked on it's target unsuspected, it proceeds to uncloak and hopefully deals fatal damage without being destroyed.

---

Originally by: DeadlyBob

---

I'm not sure why people have such an issue with the idea of a frigate insta popping other frigates/industrials/what have yous My Abaddon kills frigates with one volley, it kills bestowers with one volley. If we are fitting a frigate with the same size weapons, shouldn't it be comparable in ability?


Stealth bombers should deliver damage that can kill things the mention of 300dps is a good one, with 300 dps a stealth bomber is a significant threat to most vessels.

---

Originally by: DeadlyBob

---

Before someone mentions that in large groups they would be over powered let us observe that it is possible to fit several high dps BCs go out in a group and slaughter things on a much grander scale than with stealth bombers.

---

Originally by: Murina

---

No the entire concept is absurd, they just nerfed the crap out of nano cos cruiser hull could do interceptor speeds and you wanna frig that can do close range BS alpha strikes, and long range BS dps.........give it up already.

Oh and sarcasm aside, the ability for a gang to uncloaked aligned with a super fast lock time and hit ships with a close range BS alpha strike and warp off is way overpowered.

---

Originally by: CCP Nozh

---

we gave them a fair bonus to torpedo damage.

---

Originally by: Terra Mikael

---

Originally by: CCP Nozh

---

In our test changes we removed the explosion radius bonus (moving them away from the "anti-small ship" role)

---

Damn those emo bastards that want BS sized weapons on frigates! It's madness I tell you! madness!

---

Originally by: Murina

---

Any other questions or even a quick drooling rant you would like to post EMO BOY?

---

Originally by: Terra Mikael

---

Originally by: CCP Nozh

---

we gave them a fair bonus to torpedo damage.

---

Damn those emo bastards that want BS sized weapons on frigates! It's madness I tell you! madness!

---

Originally by: Murina

---

frig that could drop a monster alpha on every ship in the game no matter its size

---

Originally by: Korovyov

---

You WIN! And by win, I mean suck horse manure.

---

Originally by: Terra Mikael

---

Originally by: Murina

---

Originally by: Jason Edwards

---

Infact due to it's size. A dread for example wouldnt necessarily be able to deal with a stealth bomber up close.

---

Try my warrior II's in my moros bud with its bonuses they would melt a cruiser let alone a frig.

---

lol, yeah, if that darn frig sticks around for the 2 minutes it takes for you to get a lock, right?

I think its pretty much unanimous: you fail on every count, Murina. Epically.

---

Originally by: Murina

---

Edited by: Murina on 14/11/2008 17:57:17

Originally by: Tuncan

---

BS weapons should only do real dmg to BS now go away.
this sentence is actually funny.

btw murin u fail
get a clue

---

U fail read the new patch notes large weps are only supposed to do full or high dmg to similar sized ships, that is why the SB is a problem as its a frig that uses BS weapons.

Originally by: Tuncan

---

Why would anyone use battleships then?

---

TYO FIGHT OTHER BS OFC, LIKE I SAID READ THE PATCH NOTES BS WEAPONS ARE NOW SUPPOSED TO ONLY DO FULL OR EVEN GOOD DMG TO SIMILAR SIZED SHIPS.

Originally by: Tuncan

---

A cruiser gang can easily kill a battleship can with what you have said.
pfft guys like u make eve dull -.-

---

Patches like this make even dull muppet, and im am and always was against them.


PS: i suggest in future you read back and understand the context of the discussion and how the game is played and how weapon systems are supposed to work after this nerf.

---

Originally by: CCP Nozh

---

We did do changes to stealth bombers on our development servers, but we were in agreement with QA that we didn't have sufficient time to test the changes properly for Quantum Rise.

In our test changes we removed the explosion radius bonus (moving them away from the "anti-small ship" role) and gave them a fair bonus to torpedo damage. We'll probably do some more changes to them and release them to Singularity when Quantum Rise is ready and deployed to Tranquility.

---

Originally by: Terra Mikael

---

I know a few people have posted this already, but why not have a light bomber and a heavy bomber?

The light could fire heavy missiles or assault missiles with a signature radius reduction, while the heavy bomber concentrates on alpha and hunts large targets, with a bonus to painters.

---

Originally by: van Uber

---

I'd still like to see a SB with Torpedoes, but I would not mind a Heavy Bomber, based on a Destroyer-Hull, specialized in bomb-deployment (still, bombs would have to see some love in addition to the price cut it got in QR).

---

Originally by: Korovyov

---

You WIN! And by win, I mean suck horse manure.

---

Originally by: Tac Ginaz

---

The damage is high enough with bonuses designed to allow citadel to apply full damage vs BS sized target but not too high to be insta-pop or insta-cripple a target. For that you need a couple more SB's working together.

---

Originally by: Murina

---

Originally by: Tac Ginaz

---

The damage is high enough with bonuses designed to allow citadel to apply full damage vs BS sized target but not too high to be insta-pop or insta-cripple a target. For that you need a couple more SB's working together.

---

So you want a frig that can decloak with a buddy or two and insta pop a BS by using boosted/bonused dread missiles?.

How about no?.

---

Originally by: Vigaz

---

Originally by: Murina

---

Originally by: Tac Ginaz

---

The damage is high enough with bonuses designed to allow citadel to apply full damage vs BS sized target but not too high to be insta-pop or insta-cripple a target. For that you need a couple more SB's working together.

---

So you want a frig that can decloak with a buddy or two and insta pop a BS by using boosted/bonused dread missiles?.

How about no?.

---

ATM 30-40 SBs can istant pop a BS. Only 3 SBs is too much I agree. But there isnt a doubt that they need a buff asap.

---

Originally by: Sileam

---

Lets imagine that a small gang of SBs is trying to kill a BS. How many of them will get killed in the process? 3? 4? Maybe even 5.

---

Originally by: Murina

---

your uber alpha frig no longer has a weak tank against solo BS

---

Originally by: Murina

---

Try my warrior II's in my moros bud with its bonuses they would melt a cruiser let alone a frig.

---

Originally by: Murina

---

BS weapons should only do real dmg to BS now go away.

---

Originally by: Korovyov

---

You WIN! And by win, I mean suck horse manure.

---

Originally by: Murina

---

Edited by: Murina on 17/11/2008 12:16:30

Originally by: Vigaz

---

Originally by: Murina

---

Originally by: Tac Ginaz

---

The damage is high enough with bonuses designed to allow citadel to apply full damage vs BS sized target but not too high to be insta-pop or insta-cripple a target. For that you need a couple more SB's working together.

---

So you want a frig that can decloak with a buddy or two and insta pop a BS by using boosted/bonused dread missiles?.

How about no?.

---

ATM 30-40 SBs can istant pop a BS. Only 3 SBs is too much I agree. But there isnt a doubt that they need a buff asap.

---

How many of the other frig types does it take to 1 volley insta pop the same BS?, and how many of them can move faster cloaked than uncloaked while also having 0 targeting penalties for using a cloak?.

---

Originally by: Vigaz

---

A 30 Taranis gang can destroy a BS in 2-4 sec. 30 SBs need only 1 volley but it's not istant dmg, so probably SBs need more than 4 secs. The same can happen with 30 AFs and other 30 frigs.

---

Originally by: Vigaz

---

There is not a valid reason to fly SB over AF/ceptor/EF and bigger. Only T1 frigs are worst, but not all (griffin is better than a SB imo).

---

Originally by: Murina

---

Originally by: Vigaz

---

A 30 Taranis gang can destroy a BS in 2-4 sec. 30 SBs need only 1 volley but it's not istant dmg, so probably SBs need more than 4 secs. The same can happen with 30 AFs and other 30 frigs.

---

That is just a characteristic of missile design it has nothing to do with ship classes. Also you have the cloak and the ships bonuses to it (like no locking delay to offset) the fact that the dmg is not instant.

Originally by: Vigaz

---

There is not a valid reason to fly SB over AF/ceptor/EF and bigger. Only T1 frigs are worst, but not all (griffin is better than a SB imo).

---

Summat's gotta be at the bottom of the pile pal, if there was a valid reason to fly a bomber over all those other ships all we would see are threads with ppl bleating on about AF's being underpowered and their being no reason to fly them over a bomber.....ect ect.

You have got bombs use them as a corp/alliance anti blob weapon by laying patterns, you have the bonuses to using a cloak use it to get the drop on the ships you wanna kill.

---

Originally by: Vigaz

---

Originally by: Murina

---

Originally by: Vigaz

---

A 30 Taranis gang can destroy a BS in 2-4 sec. 30 SBs need only 1 volley but it's not istant dmg, so probably SBs need more than 4 secs. The same can happen with 30 AFs and other 30 frigs.

---

That is just a characteristic of missile design it has nothing to do with ship classes. Also you have the cloak and the ships bonuses to it (like no locking delay to offset) the fact that the dmg is not instant.

Originally by: Vigaz

---

There is not a valid reason to fly SB over AF/ceptor/EF and bigger. Only T1 frigs are worst, but not all (griffin is better than a SB imo).

---

Summat's gotta be at the bottom of the pile pal, if there was a valid reason to fly a bomber over all those other ships all we would see are threads with ppl bleating on about AF's being underpowered and their being no reason to fly them over a bomber.....ect ect.

You have got bombs use them as a corp/alliance anti blob weapon by laying patterns, you have the bonuses to using a cloak use it to get the drop on the ships you wanna kill.

---

So at the end we are both agree about the fact there isnt a valid reason to fly a bomber over any other ship. That's cool.

---

Originally by: Murina

---

Edited by: Murina on 17/11/2008 15:20:16

Originally by: Vigaz

---

A 30 Taranis gang can destroy a BS in 2-4 sec. 30 SBs need only 1 volley but it's not istant dmg, so probably SBs need more than 4 secs. The same can happen with 30 AFs and other 30 frigs.

---

That is just a characteristic of missile design it has nothing to do with ship classes. Also you have the cloak and the ships bonuses to it (like no locking delay) to offset the fact that the dmg is not instant.

Originally by: Vigaz

---

There is not a valid reason to fly SB over AF/ceptor/EF and bigger. Only T1 frigs are worst, but not all (griffin is better than a SB imo).

---

Summat's gotta be at the bottom of the pile pal, if there was a valid reason to fly a bomber over all those other ships all we would see are threads with ppl bleating on about AF's/ceptors/EF's being underpowered (or bombers being overpowered) and their being no reason to fly them over a bomber.....ect ect.

You have got bombs use them as a corp/alliance anti blob weapons by laying patterns around gates, you have the bonuses to using a cloak use it to get the drop on the ships you wanna kill. You cannot have all those bonused aspects and also want to have a virtually perfect dmg bonus for a certain type (any type large or small it does not matter) of ship class its just ridiculous.

---

Originally by: Hugh Ruka

---

1. ANY ship can hit ANY class of ship. it's not always for significant damage, but a Moros can use light drones (BONUSED ONES), a carrier can use light drones, BS too ...

---

Originally by: Hugh Ruka

---

2. given enough numbers, any ship can one-shot any other ship

---

Originally by: Hugh Ruka

---

3. non-covops cloak is very limited, try it yourself

---

Originally by: Hugh Ruka

---

4. bombs are next to useless. you spend 1 15M bomb to get your 40m bomber blown up ... are you serious that this should be the case for ships in general ?

---

Originally by: Hugh Ruka

---

seriously try to fly one and get some kills either solo or in small gangs ... you could entertain us with a bomb killmail f.e. to show your expertise ...

---

Originally by: Murina

---

Edited by: Murina on 17/11/2008 17:04:43

Originally by: Hugh Ruka

---

1. ANY ship can hit ANY class of ship. it's not always for significant damage, but a Moros can use light drones (BONUSED ONES), a carrier can use light drones, BS too ...

---

So?, i have no problem with it hitting ANY ship i do however have issue with 2 or 3 SB 1 volleying a BS as some ppl have been asking for.

Originally by: Hugh Ruka

---

2. given enough numbers, any ship can one-shot any other ship

---

And yet ppl want the SB to be THE alpha ship in the game, a frig with fast lock time, bonus to cloaking AND a monster alpha?.

Originally by: Hugh Ruka

---

3. non-covops cloak is very limited, try it yourself

---

So now you want a frig with fast lock time, bonus to cloaking, monster alpha and a cov ops cloak?.
Are you listening to yourself?

Originally by: Hugh Ruka

---

4. bombs are next to useless. you spend 1 15M bomb to get your 40m bomber blown up ... are you serious that this should be the case for ships in general ?

---

If you wanna fit out your ship so its worth 40 mil for a bombing operation that is your choice, but used in patterns around the "in gate" to a system against a blob of invaders you may find it useful.

Originally by: Hugh Ruka

---

seriously try to fly one and get some kills either solo or in small gangs ... you could entertain us with a bomb killmail f.e. to show your expertise ...

---

Frig and frig gangs are naturally weak, the SB should not be the exception just because you wanna I-WIN missile frig to play with.

---

Originally by: DNSBLACK

---

Sorry but honestly you guys need to please just stop typing. I hope the dev who reads this post would ask those who use bombers everyday for info on what we would like to see done. I would like a few changes the biggest 2 would be these.

1. Let us fit the bomb launcher along with the 3 cruise missle launchers. Yes we use bombs and yes the are very useful. Thank you CCP for making the cheaper. The siege launchers would be intresting also.

2. A little bit faster rate of fire 1-2 sec.

The cov cloak would be nice but soon will not be needed once local is removed. If you like to learn how to use the stealth bomber please send me a mail and we will take you out on one of our ops. My qualification are listed below.

www.dirtnapsquad.net

http://killboard.dirtnapsquad.net/

http://killboard.dirtnapsquad.net/?a=campaigns&view=past

(I dont know how to create links sorry copy and paste them)

---

Originally by: Hugh Ruka

---

2-3 SB 1 volley a BS !!! ARE YOU NUTS ??? The average BS has about 30k EHP to one damage type. UNTANKED !!! a bomber atm does 2.7k damage with top gear and skills. 2-3 bombers that's at most 8k damage ... that's not enouogh to strip the shield of a BS.

---

Originally by: Tac Ginaz

---

The damage is high enough with bonuses designed to allow citadel to apply full damage vs BS sized target but not too high to be insta-pop or insta-cripple a target. For that you need a couple more SB's working together.

---

Originally by: Hugh Ruka

---

And after all your strong talk you bail out with an excuse that frig gangs are naturaly weak so you won't present us with your bomber killmails ... nice one. So if they are so weak, why are you so afraid ?

---

Originally by: Murina

---

Edited by: Murina on 17/11/2008 20:42:08

Originally by: Hugh Ruka

---

2-3 SB 1 volley a BS !!! ARE YOU NUTS ??? The average BS has about 30k EHP to one damage type. UNTANKED !!! a bomber atm does 2.7k damage with top gear and skills. 2-3 bombers that's at most 8k damage ... that's not enouogh to strip the shield of a BS.

---

Ok tard, for somebody who says i need to read your drivel you should try reading mine as i was replying to this little gem:-

Originally by: Tac Ginaz

---

The damage is high enough with bonuses designed to allow citadel to apply full damage vs BS sized target but not too high to be insta-pop or insta-cripple a target. For that you need a couple more SB's working together.

---

GET IT?.

Originally by: Hugh Ruka

---

And after all your strong talk you bail out with an excuse that frig gangs are naturaly weak so you won't present us with your bomber killmails ... nice one. So if they are so weak, why are you so afraid ?

---

I aint afraid but all i see on this thread are ppl wanting a frig the can:-

1. With a couple of buddies 1 volley a BS (post by Tac Ginaz).
2. Use a cov-ops cloak.
3. Cloak while locked (the post above this one by hugh ruka).

Now personally i think that is a little overpowered for a frig tbh.

---

Originally by: Munio Veritas

---

I, for one, am all for the addition of a covert ops cloak to the SB. The lack of one is the major drawback to the class at the moment, as, if you do not have off-grid bookmarks, which are not always accessible, it's like putting up a huge sign, "LOOK, A SHIP IS HERE. IT COULD KILL YOU." Your prey then warps off.

I think being able to lock while cloaked is irrelevant, as you will most likely have at least two sensor boosters fit, with probably at least one with a scan rez script, so locking time is quite fast. Additionally, since you can only cloak while your missiles are at least 40km (I think?) from the target and still have them do damage, being able to lock while cloak is nice, but not needed.

---

Originally by: Hugh Ruka

---

Originally by: Munio Veritas

---

I, for one, am all for the addition of a covert ops cloak to the SB. The lack of one is the major drawback to the class at the moment, as, if you do not have off-grid bookmarks, which are not always accessible, it's like putting up a huge sign, "LOOK, A SHIP IS HERE. IT COULD KILL YOU." Your prey then warps off.

I think being able to lock while cloaked is irrelevant, as you will most likely have at least two sensor boosters fit, with probably at least one with a scan rez script, so locking time is quite fast. Additionally, since you can only cloak while your missiles are at least 40km (I think?) from the target and still have them do damage, being able to lock while cloak is nice, but not needed.

---

cloak while locked, not the other way around ... that would be too much ...

atm when you are locked by something, you cannot cloak. and SB cannot warp while cloaked, so it could actualy move around the grid. has to uncloak to do damage or warp away (or crawl off grid under cloak) and the enemy already knows about you, so your operation just got way more risky (something Murina fails to understand) ...

this would actualy enable some survivability against larger targets with slow locks ... you still have to deal with the recloak timer (5 seconds at top skills) and scanres penalty from cloak.

---

Originally by: Munio Veritas

---

Originally by: Hugh Ruka

---

Originally by: Munio Veritas

---

I, for one, am all for the addition of a covert ops cloak to the SB. The lack of one is the major drawback to the class at the moment, as, if you do not have off-grid bookmarks, which are not always accessible, it's like putting up a huge sign, "LOOK, A SHIP IS HERE. IT COULD KILL YOU." Your prey then warps off.

I think being able to lock while cloaked is irrelevant, as you will most likely have at least two sensor boosters fit, with probably at least one with a scan rez script, so locking time is quite fast. Additionally, since you can only cloak while your missiles are at least 40km (I think?) from the target and still have them do damage, being able to lock while cloak is nice, but not needed.

---

cloak while locked, not the other way around ... that would be too much ...

atm when you are locked by something, you cannot cloak. and SB cannot warp while cloaked, so it could actualy move around the grid. has to uncloak to do damage or warp away (or crawl off grid under cloak) and the enemy already knows about you, so your operation just got way more risky (something Murina fails to understand) ...

this would actualy enable some survivability against larger targets with slow locks ... you still have to deal with the recloak timer (5 seconds at top skills) and scanres penalty from cloak.

---

Ah, my apologies, I misread. I dunno about this, maybe make this unique to SBs? I can see how this would be abused my other ships.

---

Originally by: Hugh Ruka

---

ah ... so you take couple = 2 ... how about asking Tac about what he means with couple and then flaming ? you know a constructive approach for a change ?

---

Originally by: Hugh Ruka

---

btw a covops frig can warp while cloaked ... isn't that overpowered for a frig ?

---

Originally by: Munio Veritas

---

I think what Murina wants is to have roaming gangs of dreadnoughts that can jump using gates and kill anything smaller than them.

---

Originally by: Munio Veritas

---

If there was no functional way for frigs to fight against larger ships, say BS's, this game would suck.

---

Originally by: Munio Veritas

---

I, for example, hate flying anything bigger than cruisers.

---

Originally by: Murina

---

Originally by: Hugh Ruka

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ah ... so you take couple = 2 ... how about asking Tac about what he means with couple and then flaming ? you know a constructive approach for a change ?

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What he means by a couple?... that is two pal unless you wanna redefine the english language to give your pathetic trolling credence.

Originally by: Hugh Ruka

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btw a covops frig can warp while cloaked ... isn't that overpowered for a frig ?

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No because that is all it can do its a scouting ship, it has little or no dps or tank/ewar.

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Originally by: Murina

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Originally by: Munio Veritas

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I, for example, hate flying anything bigger than cruisers.

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I can tell, but you aint gonna get ccp to start giving you uber frigs and the like just cos you wanna play in a small ship sand box.

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Originally by: Hugh Ruka

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F.e. for me couple = few = little = a bit = quite a lot = loads = fek me billions............

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Originally by: Hugh Ruka

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Originally by: Murina

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Originally by: Munio Veritas

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I, for example, hate flying anything bigger than cruisers.

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I can tell, but you aint gonna get ccp to start giving you uber frigs and the like just cos you wanna play in a small ship sand box.

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No ? look what they just did ... they made all the frigs much more powerfull ...

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Originally by: Murina

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Originally by: Hugh Ruka

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F.e. for me couple = few = little = a bit = quite a lot = loads = fek me billions............

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Fixed

Play with words all you like pal....

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