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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
383
   |
Posted - 2012.11.08 16:38:00 -
[181] - Quote
Brent Newton wrote:AzAkiR NaLDa wrote:The other 2 channels in the pgs file are the diffuse mask and submask textures. These 2 channels combined make the reflection map. Each of these maps has their own specularity so keep a eye on that. How does that work; the diffuse masks? I don't even know what a submask is, and how do they work together to affect a reflection map? I'm not used to working with textures that are much more than simple diffuse, spec, bump, mirror, alpha and such. I do however use Ps pretty heavily and understand much more in depth ways of layering in that program. I use blender btw, but when ppl explain stuff for 3ds or most other 3d programs I understand.
Unless you have the original 'RED' files OR you are able to reverse engineer the EVE gfx (which goes against the EULA) there is no way you will be able to know what or how to color the layers, or even what strength of specularity, glow, fresnel, reflectivity etc to use on any of the RGBA channels
I have all of the RED files btw, and they are available to anyone who asks me nicely.
AK
GÇ£You go into combat, and itGÇÖs NOT going to be WagnerGǪindustrial techno or really hard drum and bassGÇ¥
Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002.
somethingjustgotreal.com |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
938
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 16:46:00 -
[182] - Quote
Removed some off topic posts. Please keep it on topic and civil. Have a nice day.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Commander
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department |
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AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction
Yulai Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 09:23:00 -
[183] - Quote
AlleyKat wrote:Brent Newton wrote:AzAkiR NaLDa wrote:The other 2 channels in the pgs file are the diffuse mask and submask textures. These 2 channels combined make the reflection map. Each of these maps has their own specularity so keep a eye on that. How does that work; the diffuse masks? I don't even know what a submask is, and how do they work together to affect a reflection map? I'm not used to working with textures that are much more than simple diffuse, spec, bump, mirror, alpha and such. I do however use Ps pretty heavily and understand much more in depth ways of layering in that program. I use blender btw, but when ppl explain stuff for 3ds or most other 3d programs I understand. Unless you have the original 'RED' files OR you are able to reverse engineer the EVE gfx (which goes against the EULA) there is no way you will be able to know what or how to color the layers, or even what strength of specularity, glow, fresnel, reflectivity etc to use on any of the RGBA channels I have all of the RED files btw, and they are available to anyone who asks me nicely. AK
Alleycat the data you are talking about is also located in the new black files. You just need to learn how to read them and they will show the same data as the old red files.
On a side note. Today will be the day that I will finish some of the test models and all the layers should be mostly correct now. |
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
385
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 12:24:00 -
[184] - Quote
AzAkiR NaLDa wrote: AlleyKat the data you are talking about is also located in the new black files. You just need to learn how to read them.
afaict: this information either needs to be parsed or reverse engineered.
please correct me if I am wrong, because I'm not interested in either, especially as I have all the information I would need anyway.
AK
GÇ£You go into combat, and itGÇÖs NOT going to be WagnerGǪindustrial techno or really hard drum and bassGÇ¥
Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002.
somethingjustgotreal.com |
AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction
Yulai Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 14:20:00 -
[185] - Quote
this is true alleycat that it needs to be reverse engineered. but atleast then you have the proper color values and layering sorted. because the red files are outdated. most red files are from the old V2 shaders. and since the sub capital ships for the main 4 races and some pirate factions are allready using the new v3 shaders. these black files contain the information you need.
and you can easily convert them to a format that you can actually read just like you can read the black files. all you need to do is look back a couple pages and look for the black2json tool linked in the topic.
this does the converting work for you |
Brent Newton
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 16:12:00 -
[186] - Quote
I think all this is really a moot point. Why worry about making them eve perfect. The great thing about pulling a model out is that you can make them look 100x better than they ever could in a game engine. At least that's the way I see it. I'm just going to use the mask textures in the pgs as specular/mirror maps to give the appearance of different materials.
Q : I use blender and when I pull a ship in it has multiple materials attached. Are these necessary, or are they sorta like the additional verts you always get when importing an .obj? I can imagine when they might be, but maybe one of ya'll has a better understanding of this and can make it easier on me. |
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
386
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 00:08:00 -
[187] - Quote
AzAkiR NaLDa wrote:this is true AlleyKat that it needs to be reverse engineered. but at least then you have the proper color values and layering sorted. because the red files are outdated. most red files are from the old V2 shaders. and since the sub capital ships for the main 4 races and some pirate factions are already using the new v3 shaders. these black files contain the information you need.
and you can easily convert them to a format that you can actually read just like you can read the black files. all you need to do is look back a couple pages and look for the black2json tool linked in the topic.
this does the converting work for you
Can't see anything about the two which are different, but then I haven't looked at every single ship.
AK
GÇ£You go into combat, and itGÇÖs NOT going to be WagnerGǪindustrial techno or really hard drum and bassGÇ¥
Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002.
somethingjustgotreal.com |
AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction
Yulai Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 00:45:00 -
[188] - Quote
Brent Newton wrote:I think all this is really a moot point. Why worry about making them eve perfect. The great thing about pulling a model out is that you can make them look 100x better than they ever could in a game engine. At least that's the way I see it. I'm just going to use the mask textures in the pgs as specular/mirror maps to give the appearance of different materials.
Q : I use blender and when I pull a ship in it has multiple materials attached. Are these necessary, or are they sorta like the additional verts you always get when importing an .obj? I can imagine when they might be, but maybe one of ya'll has a better understanding of this and can make it easier on me.
the reason that on some models you have multiple layers is due to the fact that all the uv mapping has been done already. this means that the main ship hull and the engine parts are separated.
this is also done for the engine glow. the engines have a different kind of lighting and reflection then the rest of the ship.
the bigger the ships the more layers you get.
for example the nyx super carrier has 3
while a gun model only has 1
it is all depending on if there is a different between some parts of the model.
hope that explains it a bit |
Brent Newton
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 08:58:00 -
[189] - Quote
AzAkiR NaLDa wrote:Brent Newton wrote:I think all this is really a moot point. Why worry about making them eve perfect. The great thing about pulling a model out is that you can make them look 100x better than they ever could in a game engine. At least that's the way I see it. I'm just going to use the mask textures in the pgs as specular/mirror maps to give the appearance of different materials.
Q : I use blender and when I pull a ship in it has multiple materials attached. Are these necessary, or are they sorta like the additional verts you always get when importing an .obj? I can imagine when they might be, but maybe one of ya'll has a better understanding of this and can make it easier on me. the reason that on some models you have multiple layers is due to the fact that all the uv mapping has been done already. this means that the main ship hull and the engine parts are separated. this is also done for the engine glow. the engines have a different kind of lighting and reflection then the rest of the ship. the bigger the ships the more layers you get. for example the nyx super carrier has 3 while a gun model only has 1 it is all depending on if there is a different between some parts of the model. hope that explains it a bit
Yes, it does. Thanks. What blending modes are you guys using? I kinda just go though all the options on each until it looks right. I wish I understood this better. I imagine blender isn't much different than any other 3d program in that it has blending modes for layers. |
AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction
Yulai Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 19:02:00 -
[190] - Quote
in 3ds max when you import the .obj file it automaticly creates a 1 or 2 layered material that you can then edit.
and when working on it you can actually see that when working on the hull layer the engines stay gray/white or whatever base color you have |
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Brent Newton
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2012.11.10 20:30:00 -
[191] - Quote
Yes this is the same in Blender, though I only today figured out how to do it. lol Before I was rendering each change to see what had happened. For anyone else that maybe using blender just expand menu on the right of the 3d view and check "textured solid". I feel silly for not having already known this. |
AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction
Yulai Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 11:55:00 -
[192] - Quote
Haha this is how you learn. Here let me show you my latest test run. In the picture you will see a rokh and a abaddon but baddon is under fire.
http://simple-construction.net/images/test.jpeg |
Brent Newton
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2012.11.11 14:53:00 -
[193] - Quote
Very nice. What are you using to render these? 3ds or udk?
Pretty Abandon
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AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction
Yulai Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 15:10:00 -
[194] - Quote
this is done completly in max rendertime on this highres screenshot was 1 minute 20 seconds XD |
Brent Newton
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 17:14:00 -
[195] - Quote
Now that looks nice. So much detail. I am wondering why you seem to have have sharpen mask on it. Am I wrong? Just the way the diffuse looks. I like it. 3ds was so much better than blender for a long time, but these days they've got the cycles render engine and also addons for vray and all the popular renderers. If I had a week to sit down and mess with it, I'd like to completely redo the textures and make them stupid hi-def. Like 5k x 5k. Then completely remake them using the original as a template for color and such. You could add scratch layers which ccp could randomize to give each ship a different look. Possibly a layer for when the ship has taken dam that changes the normals to allow for dents and things. So many options.
I love eve ships. CCP did a great job on them, but no 3d model is ever finished. Kinda sucks that hardly anyone even looks at them from all the freakin menus. I wish they would redo that. Find a more graphically friendly look to the UI, so it wasn't as necessary to have so much text. |
AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction
Yulai Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 18:05:00 -
[196] - Quote
The masks used come from the pgs files. Its the red and blue channels |
AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction
Yulai Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.11.24 00:02:00 -
[197] - Quote
okay did some more work and in a couple hours simulations of engine trails and gun blasts will be finished :)
finally managed to get the mask to work out correctly.
imageshack.us/a/img217/6307/geddon21.jpg
thanks to composite materials. i adjusted the diffuse texture colors for the mask and submask layers.
then applied the masks and as you can see a good final result if i may say so myself. |
Brent Newton
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.11.24 02:19:00 -
[198] - Quote
AzAkiR NaLDa wrote:okay did some more work and in a couple hours simulations of engine trails and gun blasts will be finished :) finally managed to get the mask to work out correctly. imageshack.us/a/img217/6307/geddon21.jpgthanks to composite materials. i adjusted the diffuse texture colors for the mask and submask layers. then applied the masks and as you can see a good final result if i may say so myself.
How did you do that blue shield thing at the front? That looks really good. Do you subdivide the mesh before render? |
AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction
Yulai Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.11.24 18:34:00 -
[199] - Quote
Brent Newton wrote:AzAkiR NaLDa wrote:okay did some more work and in a couple hours simulations of engine trails and gun blasts will be finished :) finally managed to get the mask to work out correctly. imageshack.us/a/img217/6307/geddon21.jpgthanks to composite materials. i adjusted the diffuse texture colors for the mask and submask layers. then applied the masks and as you can see a good final result if i may say so myself. How did you do that blue shield thing at the front? That looks really good. Do you subdivide the mesh before render?
that "Blue shield" stuff is actually the reflections of the environment. still need lots of small tweaks will get you a update on it once it is finished.
right now playing around with lots and lots of particles to bring **** to life |
AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction
Yulai Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.11.24 23:30:00 -
[200] - Quote
hmm well this is just great :S i am now stuck as i cant convert the black files anymore.
i updated my pc earlier with a new shiny SSD to speed up lots of the simulation times.
now when ever i try to load a black file with the black2json tool i get the following error and it shutsdown :
Quote:System.IndexOutOfRangeException: De index ligt buiten de matrixgrenzen.
bij Red.BlackObject.<.cctor>b__c(BinaryReader br, BlackObject me, BlackObject root, Nullable`1 index)
bij Red.BlackObject.Create(BinaryReader br, Nullable`1 index, Int64 len, Int64 start, BlackObject parent, BlackObject root)
bij Red.BlackObject..ctor(BinaryReader br, Nullable`1 index, Int64 len, Int64 start, BlackObject parent, BlackObject root)
bij Red.BlackObject.<.cctor>b__13(BinaryReader br, BlackObject me, BlackObject root, Nullable`1 index)
bij Red.BlackObject.Create(BinaryReader br, Nullable`1 index, Int64 len, Int64 start, BlackObject parent, BlackObject root)
bij Red.BlackObject..ctor(BinaryReader br, Nullable`1 index, Int64 len, Int64 start, BlackObject parent, BlackObject root)
bij Red.BlackObject.<.cctor>b__11(BinaryReader br, BlackObject me, BlackObject root, Nullable`1 index)
bij Red.BlackObject.Create(BinaryReader br, Nullable`1 index, Int64 len, Int64 start, BlackObject parent, BlackObject root)
bij Red.BlackObject..ctor(Stream stream)
bij Black.Black2Json.ConvertFile(String currFilename)
bij Black.Black2Json.ConvertFileBtn_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e)
bij System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnClick(EventArgs e)
bij System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnClick(EventArgs e)
bij System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mevent)
bij System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
bij System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
bij System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message& m)
bij System.Windows.Forms.Button.WndProc(Message& m)
bij System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
bij System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
bij System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)
************** Geladen assembly's **************
mscorlib
Assembly-versie: 4.0.0.0
Win32-versie: 4.0.30319.18010 built by: FX45RTMGDR
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v4.0.30319/mscorlib.dll
Black2JsonCK
Assembly-versie: 1.0.0.0
Win32-versie: 1.0.0.0
CodeBase: file:///C:/Users/DJ/AppData/Local/Apps/2.0/BGO93G93.XWK/3B5M35HM.HJG/blac..tion_7760a6a9594eb350_0001.0000_8233d1aaa03925be/Black2JsonCK.exe
System.Windows.Forms
Assembly-versie: 4.0.0.0
Win32-versie: 4.0.30319.17929 built by: FX45RTMREL
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
System
Assembly-versie: 4.0.0.0
Win32-versie: 4.0.30319.18016 built by: FX45RTMGDR
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
System.Drawing
Assembly-versie: 4.0.0.0
Win32-versie: 4.0.30319.17929 built by: FX45RTMREL
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
Accessibility
Assembly-versie: 4.0.0.0
Win32-versie: 4.0.30319.17929 built by: FX45RTMREL
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Accessibility/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Accessibility.dll
System.Core
Assembly-versie: 4.0.0.0
Win32-versie: 4.0.30319.17929 built by: FX45RTMREL
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Core/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Core.dll
System.Web.Extensions
Assembly-versie: 4.0.0.0
Win32-versie: 4.0.30319.17929
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Web.Extensions/v4.0_4.0.0.0__31bf3856ad364e35/System.Web.Extensions.dll
mscorlib.resources
Assembly-versie: 4.0.0.0
Win32-versie: 4.0.30319.18010 built by: FX45RTMGDR
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/mscorlib.resources/v4.0_4.0.0.0_nl_b77a5c561934e089/mscorlib.resources.dll
System.Windows.Forms.resources
Assembly-versie: 4.0.0.0
Win32-versie: 4.0.30319.18010 built by: FX45RTMGDR
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms.resources/v4.0_4.0.0.0_nl_b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.resources.dll
---------------------------------------- |
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AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction
Yulai Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 13:42:00 -
[201] - Quote
okay i thought it was a issue with my computer but i guess its not.
i tried it on my wifes laptop. on some friends systems and on none of them it seems to be working :(
what could be this problem? |
Dayfox
UK Corp
RAZOR Alliance
14
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 00:20:00 -
[202] - Quote
Anyone having trouble translating the latest .black files? I think they have jumbled them up again? |
AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction
Yulai Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 11:07:00 -
[203] - Quote
Dayfox if you are trying to open the blackfiles from either Birmingham or duality it won't work. For some reason ccp secured it or something. I tried it before and it made my tools crash and do all sorts of funky stuff. I guess we will have to wait for them tone released to TQ before we can play with them
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Andares Sol
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.12.01 09:10:00 -
[204] - Quote
Hm I hope you are right. I have the gut feeling CCP just completely changed the Black file format again and comes 4th of December it'll stop working on TQ as well.
Bests,
Andares Sol
|
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
409
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 13:43:00 -
[205] - Quote
Confirming the black files will not open using the black2json.
Still, tri exporter works fine, including the new models like the megathron, so no worries there.
AK
GÇ£You go into combat, and itGÇÖs NOT going to be WagnerGǪindustrial techno or really hard drum and bassGÇ¥
Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002. |
AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction
Yulai Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 13:51:00 -
[206] - Quote
Hmm okay so i guess we need to find a way to reopen the files then
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AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction
Yulai Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 17:18:00 -
[207] - Quote
I guess we will have to try and contact the app creators and see if they can update it. |
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
418
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 17:26:00 -
[208] - Quote
AzAkiR NaLDa wrote:I guess we will have to try and contact the app creators and see if they can update it.
Well...I'm not confident it is necessary...we got all we need sans a few ships, but with fairly standard color schemes to them from existing racial styles.
Unless you didn't archive....in which case if anyone wants any pre-patch BLACK files, let me know.
AK
GÇ£You go into combat, and itGÇÖs NOT going to be WagnerGǪindustrial techno or really hard drum and bassGÇ¥
Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002. |
AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction
Yulai Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 18:20:00 -
[209] - Quote
Luckily I do archived the pre patch files. But there are a couple ships who received the v3 shaders. The new destroyers can be made using the existing t1 destroyer scheme. But the venture for instance is completely new and no info on its colors heme can be read. |
Selvin
Galactic Fighters Organization
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 20:42:00 -
[210] - Quote
hmmm as you can see here:
http://black2json.codeplex.com/SourceControl/changeset/24909
it should working ... but ... Andares didn't release exe .. so you need to get the code, get VS express(should be for free) and compile program :) |
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