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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.12.05 08:45:00 -
[1]
I personally dont care one way or the other if Trit prices go up or down, I make isk either way. OK Disclaimer out of the way.
As I am sure most of us have noticed trit prices have been on the up swing. As CCP has slowly removed trit price capping items this year. Trit might/could soon at market cost more than Pyerite.
We all have our beliefs as to what other factors are causing the price/supply issue at the moment, I really dont feel the need to get into that here.
What I would like to discuss, is a sort of what if.
What do you think CCP "might" do to alievate the trit price/supply problem. While I myself dont really see this as a problem, if things keep trending they way they are. Especially with the corrasponding downward trend of the other end of the mineral basket(mega + zyd). The rabble rabble of forum whinage will sure to be increasing soon.
What do you think CCP might do to lower trit prices and increase trit supply?
1.) Increase the spawn rate of Veldspar roids, from their current rate.
2.) Increase the spawn size of Veldspar roids, so they start of bigger.
3.) Increase the refinable ammount of Trit from Veldspar.
4.) Decrease all BPO's Trit requirement by some set percentage, thus lowering total demand?
5.) Reworking of certain "Trit Heavy" BPO's so they are more "balanced" with in their mineral needs?
6.) ?????any other crazy ideas, I know some of mine are a bit out there?????
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Drakkar Saarith
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.12.05 09:03:00 -
[2]
If they really feel a need to change anything I hope they will do either
a) add tritanium to lowsec ores like Jaspet, which would make them worth mining or
b) add a new ore in 0.4 and below with 2-3 times the tritanium/m3 of veldspar.
Personally I think that this will correct itself in the long run. That is when the cap hungry carebears start mining with all those Orca's and stop buying them .
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Cheopis
Amarr
One Stop Mining Shop
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Posted - 2008.12.05 09:11:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Cheopis on 05/12/2008 09:11:12
Well, they might just do nothing?
There's plenty of Veld in missions.
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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.12.05 09:17:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Drakkar Saarith
Personally I think that this will correct itself in the long run. That is when the cap hungry carebears start mining with all those Orca's and stop buying them .
It might very well, although on a nice casual and very informal run around of Amarr space today, i went looking for large, by high sec standards, roids. There were none. Totally antidotal evidence of course, but there wasnt near as much trit to be had in the 5 regions I ran through as there used to be 2years ago. I did also for laughs hit a couple of low secs that I know used to be "mining friendly", which were also seriously veld depleted.
As to your new ore idea, I have seen it touched upon a few times by the devs, nothing real concrete, and always in refrence to 0.0. Some sort of SUPER VELD (slayer of Chribba?).
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Andres Talas
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Posted - 2008.12.05 09:24:00 -
[5]
While zooming around sunny Curse earlier today, I noticed huge numbers of really, really big Tritanium-rich asteroids.
Was anyone mining em ? Nuh-huh.
Have I seen anyone mining them, ever ? Yep, one guy, once, for about 10 minutes.
Could Curse be locked down so we could make zillions of Trit ? Yep.
Is this goanna happen with 4isk per unit Trit ? Nope.
Could this happen if mining Trit was more profitable than smearing Angels for Concord ? Yep.
Are the tears going to flow in quantity from Mission and Combat types if we rewind to 2005 or so and actually make people mine for their ships ? Yep.
Do I see a problem here ? Nope, just your free market at work.
AT
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Molock Saronen
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Posted - 2008.12.05 09:26:00 -
[6]
Introduce T3?? 
That giving them a prefect opportunity to balance/fix anything they want without any
repercussions for existing stuff. |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.12.05 09:28:00 -
[7]
Mineral exploitation levels are really best determined by those with access to perfect information - QEN material, perhaps?
I don't think any action is needed, personally. If the price goes high enough, people will just start hauling trit from 0.0 to empire. Any guesses as to how high this would need to be?
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Can't afford that BPO? Look here.
20:1 mineral compression
The EVE f@h team |
Carniflex
Caldari
StarHunt
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.12.05 09:39:00 -
[8]
They might pick first two - ie make veld respawn faster and/or start it bigger - however any kind of intervention is unlikely, as there is plenty of veld still left in empire - not to mention lower security areas.
I would throw out one more possibility - they might increase gravimetric exploration site density in empire (where one is getting usually veldspar belts). That on assumption that they look at the data and decide that there IS actually veldspar supply problem.
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YunFu Yan
Yan Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.12.05 10:35:00 -
[9]
I think the current trit sources are fine. They aren't even being exploited fully yet so why change anything?
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Yan Enterprises - We mean business. |
Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2008.12.05 11:00:00 -
[10]
Treelox one possibility you missed is CCP introducing hauler spawns in low sec (in high sec it would be abused by ore thieves). This is how alot of null sec regions have cheap tritanium and pyerite.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.12.05 13:09:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Mineral exploitation levels are really best determined by those with access to perfect information - QEN material, perhaps?
I don't think any action is needed, personally. If the price goes high enough, people will just start hauling trit from 0.0 to empire. Any guesses as to how high this would need to be?
4.6 4.8 or so is the breaking point. At this point its actually semi profitable for me to rent a jump bridge for a day and split the profits as I fund the operation. Even then, that'll only bring the equilibrium down slightly since getting trit in 0.0 is more difficult thanks to lower hauler spawns and loot compression issues.
As much as I hate to say it... I think NPC shuttle orders should go back into the game for the moment. |
Xabier
THE SORORITY
CODE RED ALLIANCE
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Posted - 2008.12.05 13:14:00 -
[12]
Its actually cheaper right now to run jump freighters worth of trit out of npc 0.0 then buy it off the market.
Ah the joys of trit at 0.87 isk a unit, alas takes 3x as long to move it.
Xabiers Capital Bond #1
Xabiers Capital Bond #2
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.05 13:24:00 -
[13]
CCP should do nothing. There are no supply problems. All the noobs coming in should help when they all start mining for cash.
EBANK Staff | www.eve-bank.net
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Lord Zoran
House of Tempers
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Posted - 2008.12.05 13:27:00 -
[14]
there is no trit problem, it's just chribba is keeping too much veld hid away 
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Block Ukx
Block Ships and Ammunitions
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Posted - 2008.12.05 13:34:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Treelox
...
We all have our beliefs as to what other factors are causing the price/supply issue at the moment, I really dont feel the need to get into that here.
...
If we don't know the root of the problem, How are we suppose to have a smart conversation with ccp?
I second Hexx, ccp should do nothing.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Feronia
Gallente
Magma Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.05 13:34:00 -
[16]
I don't see any problems with the trit supply. There isn't really a shortage. In fact, in most regions there has never been more trit traded on a daily basis as in the last few weeks, be it at a higher price.
I think its only a temporary post-patch problem, mostly created by the popularity of a certain new ship. The supply side isn't lacking, its the sudden increased demand side that in this case is price determining. Once the market stabilizes a drop in demand will bring the price down again.
So CCP intervening to fix a temporary (player created) problem would be a bad move.
Just consider it as a short market instability that offers a lot of opportunities. 
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Confuzer
Volition Cult
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2008.12.05 13:46:00 -
[17]
My millions of trit finally sold. I bought a huge amount just before the shuttle nerf.
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Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved. |
Redbad
Minmatar
Mean Corp
Mean Coalition
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Posted - 2008.12.05 14:10:00 -
[18]
They could try and kidnap Block ? 
I think CCP is going to see if the Orca will contribute to a better empire mining efficiency first and a greater mineral output. If it's up to me I'd do nothing and let the market sort it out.
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Cyrus Brown
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Posted - 2008.12.05 14:15:00 -
[19]
If they do anything at all, they should increase the amount of asteroids in all high-sec belts. The player base has grown a lot of the past 4 years, and with all the advances in mining technologies they really need more ore for players to mine in high-sec.
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.12.05 14:16:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 05/12/2008 14:16:19
I don't see much of a problem either. If anything I just think there's a problem with the mining system in-general at the moment. People who claim CCP has to do something about trit prices don't realise "Hey, if it's 'so high' then just get a barge and mine veldspar".
I have no problems with the mineral basket, I think it works fine and if Trit wants to be worth more than Pyerite, or if mining Veldspar wants to be better than mining Jaspet, go for it.
The problem with mining is that, unlike ratting which is
- 'poor' in high sec
- 'average' in low sec
- 'good' in nullsec,
Mining is:
- 'average' in high sec
- 'poor' in low sec (too risky to mine for no benefit)
- 'poor' in mud 0.0
- 'good' in 0.0 containing Arkonor, Bistot, Crockite or Merc.
What would fix the 'problem' with mining would be to implement ships or modules/charges (blast crystals have been mentioned before) which are usable only in low/null sec to improve mining yield/cycle times, guaranteeing mining 'Ore A' in low/null sec is markedly better than mining the same ore in high sec regardless of the mineral basket. Provided you take actions to mitigate risk, it means:
- Mining in highsec is 'average'
- Mining in low/mud nullsec is 'better than highsec' provided you mine the FOTM ore.
- Mining in good nullsec is 'good', and 'better' if you use the appropriate modules/charges to increase yield of things like Ark, bist etc.
I posted a thread about it (god knows why I chose GD), but instead of just outright agreeing (or disagreeing) that increasing mining yield for low/nullsec in general being a good idea, the arbitrary figures I chose got picked to pieces and nothing particularly useful came out of the discussion.  I also posted a similar idea in Features and Ideas (ah, that's probably why I threw it in GD) and it just fell off to the page without response.
Improve Market Competition! |
Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2008.12.05 14:19:00 -
[21]
Based on the OP, this is not a referendum on if CCP should intervene, but a discussion on how they would intervene if they chose to do so. I am amazed how many of the l33t market people missed that. Maybe they need to read the stickies 
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Sophie Daigneau
Risky Advanced Production Enterprises
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.05 14:21:00 -
[22]
CCP has already told us how they plan to fix the "problem". They're going to move belts to exploration sites which would mean as soon as one is finished, a new site will pop up elsewhere to be scanned down. This in theory means there should always be a full belt out there someplace for someone to find and mine.
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Reignar Gnalf
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Posted - 2008.12.05 14:49:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sophie Daigneau
CCP has already told us how they plan to fix the "problem". They're going to move belts to exploration sites which would mean as soon as one is finished, a new site will pop up elsewhere to be scanned down. This in theory means there should always be a full belt out there someplace for someone to find and mine.
Wouldn't that also increase the initial barrier for a newbie to get into mining quite a bit? Not entirely sure I like this idea.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.12.05 14:52:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Reignar Gnalf
Originally by: Sophie Daigneau
CCP has already told us how they plan to fix the "problem". They're going to move belts to exploration sites which would mean as soon as one is finished, a new site will pop up elsewhere to be scanned down. This in theory means there should always be a full belt out there someplace for someone to find and mine.
Wouldn't that also increase the initial barrier for a newbie to get into mining quite a bit? Not entirely sure I like this idea.
To my understanding, they'll be scanned using the onboard scanners, while additional deep space mining spots will be seeded with richer ores for true exploration sites |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.12.05 16:05:00 -
[25]
So it is clear that the Trit market is tight.
RL life has shown that there is surely only 1 way to solve the problem.
CCP must act now,and inject some liquidity into the market. NPC's should sell billions of units of trit to stimulate the manufacturing sector before we fall into a depression.
It would probably help if they started to purchase large quantities of T1 class ships, battleships would probably be best. Spend their way out of trouble!!!
As Rick Wagoner would be proud to say "Whats good for Cosmoray Constryuction is good for the Eve economy"
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Trox Aeze
MILLITECH
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Posted - 2008.12.05 16:10:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Trox Aeze on 05/12/2008 16:11:45
Even if Veldspar becomes available in exploration belts, it still wont help, and the prices will keep rising. I expect trit to pass 5isk within a week.
Currently theres no incentive to mine trit. And it wont be untill it goes up significantly more, think 7-8ipu. With the introduction of Orca's and the 3k+ bpo's sold and the majority of them in use we finally see the repercussions from shuttle changes.
Oddly enough, ship prices is stable while Trit has gone up over 20%.
It might be countered by the drop in Megacyte prices.
I would very much like to see a increased amounts of trit from Veldspar.
IF ccp does anything at all, I think they will adjust drone alloys again
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Astorothe
Aperture Science Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.05 16:15:00 -
[27]
I think they will do nothing actually.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.12.05 16:19:00 -
[28]
I didn't realise that many BPO's were purchased!!
That is a nice little 3 Trillion liquid ISK sink for CCP.
That is an awfuly high amount of trit.
For dedicated mining corps, the Orca is great news.
Not only do they mine more, but the price is going up to fill demand. Better get mining quick before it all comes back to Earth.
Unless Goons go out and pop 5000 Orcas
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Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.05 17:02:00 -
[29]
There are three easy fairly passive solutions.
1) Ignore isk farmers a bit longer than usual.
2) Increase frequency of hauler spawns. Incidentally, hauler spawns do appear in low sec and high sec (I think they do, been about a year since I last looked), probably as frequently as they do in 0.0. They also carry a lot less trit. Low sec spawns might carry a mil trit while high sec spawns might be 10-20k trit.
3) Bring back the insane industrialist mission, a huge trit producer in low sec. Powerful synergy with isk farmers.
Course that would undo the supply-side changes they've made over the past six months or so. I'd rather have the high priced trit.
The thing that really surprises me is how much veldspar and scordite is sitting right by Jita. I see 4.2 isk trit in Jita and a pile of veld roids two jumps over (the COSMOS constellation that has Itamo in it). Don't know how big they are, I haven't hit them with a survey scanner. I have an R&D alt chilling there who occasionally hits the roids for some trit.
Moving on. The demand coming from orcas doesn't seem that impressive. In Jita, I see averaged under 50 orcas traded each day. That's about 2-2.5 bil trit (at 47 mil trit per orca) a day which is about 20% of the trit traded in the Forge. That implies to me that supply of trit is fairly inelastic, which I guess isn't surprising.
Trit will have to get a lot higher to really pull the nonminers into mining which is really the only high sec activity where you can focus on trit extraction. Trit from other high sec sources is mixed in with other minerals (eg, mission loot) and while trit has gone up a lot, some of the other minerals (zydrine and megacyte in particular) have gone down considerably. I doubt there's much incentive to loot more or run drone missions.
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari
XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.12.05 17:04:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Hexxx
CCP should do nothing. There are no supply problems. All the noobs coming in should help when they all start mining for cash.
Yep. The influx of noobs plus the Orca's coming online will clean out high sec, the drone regions will probably see more activity and if this doesn't keep trit under 6 p/u we'll start seeing it being mined in 0.0. Not because it's directly profitable at 6-8 p/u but because there's a big convenience factor to having it in 0.0 already which adds at least 2 ISK p/u to it's value, in my mind anyways.
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