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Big 0.0 Revamp Thread - Incentivizing 0.0 and stuff

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QwaarJet hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.29 02:31:00 - [181] Signed for great Vuk justice.
hlynurst Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.29 02:32:00 - [182] I support this.
Asero Lilium Venture Initiative	Posted - 2008.12.29 02:35:00 - [183] sounds poorl designed and not thought through. while it SOUNDS like it is good its causes problems on mmultiple levels. 1) PLANET SPAM. all the planets are full.... your screwed 2) Moons reducing sov cost. it allows sov pos to be partially paid for by the moons they are on. 3) any time you try to incentive small gang warfare against large entities your only shooting yourself in the foot. it SOUNDS good it however rarely works exactly like that
Pedro Sangre Ars ex Discordia	Posted - 2008.12.29 02:37:00 - [184] /signed
Moraguth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.29 02:40:00 - [185] I support all of these proposals. Good stuff for us 0.0 people :) good game Hoc filum tradit - This thread delivers.
g0th	Posted - 2008.12.29 02:42:00 - [186] supportin dis!
Vily Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.29 02:49:00 - [187] Disagree Boring POS warfare * Currently the only way to conquer space is through the destruction of the POSes in the system. -> wrong. there is difference between controlling Sov and controlling space * POS warfare is repetetive. -> shooting pos with dreads is repetitive, the fights that ensue rarely are * No direct reward for those participating in POS warfare. -> are dyspro moons worth nothing? Solutions * Detach sov from POS. -> and replace with what? * Different objectives for different types/sizes of gangs. -> so open ended i could insert "sell exotic dancers to rats to gain sov points" * More stuff to destroy and plunder for instant loot! -> isn't that the repetitive stuff you argued against 5 lines up? Useless 0.0 space * Many systems that lack valuable rats, ore and moon materials. -> very few systems hold zero value, and if they do you often find people farming them when you aren't looking * Sov holders have much space they have no use for, but have to occupy for tactical reasons. -> no use for until its during a carebear period, or they have to hold the area to control the moons which is the part "they have a use for" * No way to improve or develop space over time. -> outposts + outpost upgrades + faction towers + Jump brdige networks? -> obviously nothing Solutions * Ways to discover new belts. -> exploration, try it * Dynamic rat spawns, based on player actions. -> this would be nice tbh * Prospecting for more/better materials at moons (uncovered veins get lower yield over time?) -> kinda like this too * Construction of POS/Outpost modules or small anchorables that bestow benefits upon the system. -> elaborate * POS or small anchorables that produce consumer goods, etc. -> just have stations sell them? not all of them, but if station X(mim refinery) could sell robotics and oxygen station Y(caldari research) could sell mechanical parts that would be AWESOME Lack of Income sources for individuals 0.0 * Individuals can only gain income through mining, ratting and exploration. -> have you ever tried to make money in 0.0? its easy as **** * Complaint about missioning being exclusive to Empire/Faction space. -> who the hell is gonna grant the missions then? * Income sources are controlled by system, not players. -> wtf are you smoking? players in alliances control the important 0.0 resources with an iron grip Solutions * NPC factions respond to player action and establish themselves in alliance territory (or not), eventually handing out missions. bolded important part * Implement a player driven economy of trade goods (produced at small anchorables, consumed by outposts/stations). i agree with this at stations * Add new professions and activities. yes ambiguity is good. care to suggest some? Lack of quick small gang PVP, lack of objectives * Firepower is more important than mobility. -> get a clue * Blobbing. -> exact counter to this is one line up * Difficult if not impossible to take on capital ships without bringing your own. -> in large groups yes, got a solution to that? and this has nothing to do with sov last i checked * Small gangs cannot inflict damage or influence sov. -> small gangs inflict ***tons of damage. influence sov by destroying their enemy Supply lines are not very exposed due to jumpbridges, etc. -> this is true, and i would like to see the PG usage of a JB increase to reduce their defensive advantage cont.... -
Scatim Helicon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.29 02:51:00 - [188] Edited by: Scatim Helicon on 29/12/2008 02:54:20 Originally by: Vuk Lau All moon structures (current POSes) would lose their ability to count for sovereignity. SOV holding structures would be moved to planets. I am a little wary of physically moving POSs to planets as CCP seems to have plans (even if maybe they're just vague ideas at the moment) for developing the role of planets in a system's structure in the future and without knowing for sure at this stage what they'll be it would be a pain to have POSs there getting in the way. Perhaps just have the "XL POS" which claims a planet at one of its moons, but with the limit of one per planet. Quote: Planet orbiting structures should have much more HP then current POSes and they should have ability to anchor and online following modules: -Turret Batteries -Electronic Warfare Batteries -Energy Neutralizing Batteries -Missile Batteries -Shield Hardening Arrays -Corporate Hangar Array As well as modules connected to sovereignty mentioned above. Precise amount of HP (shield, armor and structure) as well as PG/CPU should be carefully increased, but with current number of capital ship ingame it needs to be a bit more then current Control towers. Again, I'd be wary of the increases in power we would be talking about here - buffing Sov POSs too much may lead to another 'bring dreads or don't bother' state of play as we had before POS guns moved outside the shields, with sub-capitals becoming obsolete and relegated to gatecamp duty. Quote: I would refer to the issue already raised by CSM http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=859419 . Every planet in system where alliances have sovereignty could be teraformed. Bringing planets to life - literally - is something that would be very cool to see, although I wouldn't let it apply to all planets, after all its not realistic to terraform a gas giant or an airless iceball. Additionally, having Terraform-able planets and/or moons (and perhaps even pre-inhabited - I 'm not familiar enough with the EVE backstory to know if there are inhabited planets out in 0.0) randomly scattered through the galaxy in the same way as moon minerals are randomly scattered would mean further diversification of 0.0 and a new type of resource to generate friction over - and could lead to interesting 'gold rush' conflicts between 0.0 alliances if areas of space previously considered poor value became more worthwhile due to the discovery of inhabitable worlds within its systems. As an aside, terraforming should be a non-trivial process - I'd suggest as a benchmark figure that terraforming a world be a multi-level process roughly similar in cost cost to the various levels of outpost upgrades, and take several weeks to complete. -----------
Steropes Main	Posted - 2008.12.29 02:53:00 - [189] I, too, support this.
Vily Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.29 02:55:00 - [190] cont... Solutions * More objectives besides POS warfare. -> kill? * Add small anchorables to destroy and loot. -> and what are we looting from them? * Add game mechanics that favor quick hit-and-run tactics. -> they dont already? * Make it beneficial for small gangs to roam and patrol own space. -> without points to defend you cannot patrol. without a reason to defend why bother? POS fuelling is tedious -> pos fueling is easy as ***. it is time consuming, but you have to realize that with the introduction of jump freighers, jump bridges etc. its hard to make it any easier without it being broken. Ice mining process is extremely boring. -> do you ice mine? last i checked macro's do that for us to the point where it is effectively an npc good * Distributing materials is repetetive. -> what? * Trade goods cannot be produced in the general area. -> they aren't produced anywhere's their sold. and i agree that the ability to get trade goods cold be made easier * Administrative nightmare for large alliances. -> if you cant figure out how to fuel 25 pos among 500 people you fail Solutions * Detach sov from POS so that less POS are required. standard sov pos's currently required is six. if you move them to planets that will stay ROUGHLY the same. however, you make it impossible to grab system footholds to try and break sov with tower spam. -
ardik GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.29 02:56:00 - [191] Originally by: Vily Disagree Boring POS warfare * Currently the only way to conquer space is through the destruction of the POSes in the system. -> wrong. there is difference between controlling Sov and controlling space * POS warfare is repetetive. -> shooting pos with dreads is repetitive, the fights that ensue rarely are * No direct reward for those participating in POS warfare. -> are dyspro moons worth nothing? Solutions * Detach sov from POS. -> and replace with what? * Different objectives for different types/sizes of gangs. -> so open ended i could insert "sell exotic dancers to rats to gain sov points" * More stuff to destroy and plunder for instant loot! -> isn't that the repetitive stuff you argued against 5 lines up? Useless 0.0 space * Many systems that lack valuable rats, ore and moon materials. -> very few systems hold zero value, and if they do you often find people farming them when you aren't looking * Sov holders have much space they have no use for, but have to occupy for tactical reasons. -> no use for until its during a carebear period, or they have to hold the area to control the moons which is the part "they have a use for" * No way to improve or develop space over time. -> outposts + outpost upgrades + faction towers + Jump brdige networks? -> obviously nothing Solutions * Ways to discover new belts. -> exploration, try it * Dynamic rat spawns, based on player actions. -> this would be nice tbh * Prospecting for more/better materials at moons (uncovered veins get lower yield over time?) -> kinda like this too * Construction of POS/Outpost modules or small anchorables that bestow benefits upon the system. -> elaborate * POS or small anchorables that produce consumer goods, etc. -> just have stations sell them? not all of them, but if station X(mim refinery) could sell robotics and oxygen station Y(caldari research) could sell mechanical parts that would be AWESOME Lack of Income sources for individuals 0.0 * Individuals can only gain income through mining, ratting and exploration. -> have you ever tried to make money in 0.0? its easy as **** * Complaint about missioning being exclusive to Empire/Faction space. -> who the hell is gonna grant the missions then? * Income sources are controlled by system, not players. -> wtf are you smoking? players in alliances control the important 0.0 resources with an iron grip Solutions * NPC factions respond to player action and establish themselves in alliance territory (or not), eventually handing out missions. bolded important part * Implement a player driven economy of trade goods (produced at small anchorables, consumed by outposts/stations). i agree with this at stations * Add new professions and activities. yes ambiguity is good. care to suggest some? Lack of quick small gang PVP, lack of objectives * Firepower is more important than mobility. -> get a clue * Blobbing. -> exact counter to this is one line up * Difficult if not impossible to take on capital ships without bringing your own. -> in large groups yes, got a solution to that? and this has nothing to do with sov last i checked * Small gangs cannot inflict damage or influence sov. -> small gangs inflict ***tons of damage. influence sov by destroying their enemy Supply lines are not very exposed due to jumpbridges, etc. -> this is true, and i would like to see the PG usage of a JB increase to reduce their defensive advantage cont.... BAN THIS A##HAT
Vily Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.29 02:59:00 - [192] Originally by: ardik BAN THIS A##HAT i was trying to make it clear that the argument as put forth is clearly not well defined and may do just the opposite of what it intends to do. care to explain why you think i deserve a ban? -
InnerDrive Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.29 03:04:00 - [193] Edited by: InnerDrive on 29/12/2008 03:03:59 /signed pvp tournament?
ardik GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.29 03:08:00 - [194] Originally by: Vily Boring POS warfare * Currently the only way to conquer space is through the destruction of the POSes in the system. -> wrong. there is difference between controlling Sov and controlling space No, there isn't. By controlling sov you in most cases control the scarce resources such as station services and dyspro moons. Don't think being afk cloaked makes you relevant. Originally by: Vily * No direct reward for those participating in POS warfare. -> are dyspro moons worth nothing? For most individual players, no, obviously not. Originally by: Vily Useless 0.0 space * Many systems that lack valuable rats, ore and moon materials. -> very few systems hold zero value, and if they do you often find people farming them when you aren't looking 90% of the systems in conquerable 0.0 has less scarcity power than L4s in motsu. It just isn't worth it. If you're thinking about exploration i hope you **ing choke on a forever Originally by:** Vily * No way to improve or develop space over time. -> outposts + outpost upgrades + faction towers + Jump brdige networks? -> obviously nothing Obviously. Since it's still worth less than our L4s in motsu baseline. Originally by: Vily Solutions * Ways to discover new belts. -> exploration, try it YESSS CLICKING 'SCAN' EVERY 180 SECONDS IS THE PINNACLE OF ONLINE MULTIGAMING IN THE YEAR 2008 ** YOU Originally by:** Vily Lack of Income sources for individuals 0.0 * Individuals can only gain income through mining, ratting and exploration. -> have you ever tried to make money in 0.0? its easy as ** It's also boring as and rarely even involves other people, apart from the guys in corp chat that keep you from killing yourself or something. Also, it's easier and more profitable in npc 0.0. Originally by:** Vily Lack of quick small gang PVP, lack of objectives * Firepower is more important than mobility. -> get a clue * Blobbing. -> exact counter to this is one line up * Difficult if not impossible to take on capital ships without bringing your own. -> in large groups yes, got a solution to that? and this has nothing to do with sov last i checked * Small gangs cannot inflict damage or influence sov. -> small gangs inflict ***tons of damage. influence sov by destroying their enemy Supply lines are not very exposed due to jumpbridges, etc. -> this is true, and i would like to see the PG usage of a JB increase to reduce their defensive advantage Oh come on, lack of small gang pvp in 0.0 is lack of rewards. Rewards that make it worthwhile to risk your ****. Right now, it doesn't exist. Do you even play this game?
Zaffm GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.29 03:11:00 - [195] Originally by: PackItup I find 0.0 very under utalized. befor your alowed to colonize a planet for sov you would have to make a desision on one of the 4 empire work your standings up as a corp and alliance then trade for the technology to terraform a planet and claim soverenty. just a thought 0.0 does not include factions, we don't want factions, if we wanted to deal with factional stuff we would be participating in factional warfare. Why is this a difficult concept to understand?
Roeun Deiaj Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.29 03:13:00 - [196] I support this.
Winchestori Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.29 03:16:00 - [197] yo thumbs up
Dragorin Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.29 03:23:00 - [198] Supported!! [url=http://66.11.226.108/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=47019] [/url]
Battle Tested The Arrow Project	Posted - 2008.12.29 03:24:00 - [199] Definately, 0.0 needs a complete overhaul. It is getting too repetitive and boring, and needs to evolve with the growing number of people in it. The fact that NPC owned (unclaimable) regions are far more valuable than those that have to be fought over and held is out of balance.
Vily Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.29 03:27:00 - [200] Originally by: ardik Originally by: Vily Do you even play this game? more than you ;p while your extreme dislike of exploration is your call, it is not for others i do agree 0.0 could use a minor boost, but it has to be balanced by not being broken. just because high sec level 4's are broken doesn't mean you should furhter break something else. -
Jack Gates GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.29 03:58:00 - [201] I support this. yo, these are some good ideas. We really need to start cutting the fat in 0.0. I hope CCP listens to the CSM. that's a pretty :effort: troll you have there, vily
Flattus Maximus	Posted - 2008.12.29 04:03:00 - [202] boosh
DaiTengu Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.29 04:10:00 - [203] Originally by: Vily Originally by: ardik BAN THIS A##HAT i was trying to make it clear that the argument as put forth is clearly not well defined and may do just the opposite of what it intends to do. care to explain why you think i deserve a ban? Honestly, every objection you had is completely ******ed. It's obvious you just skimmed the proposals put in place, and that you really have no idea how 0.0 works.
Kleesama GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.29 04:11:00 - [204] Supporting this. Also agreeing dat vily is a few bricks shy of a full load.
Sunter	Posted - 2008.12.29 04:12:00 - [205] DaiTengu is da best. (supporting this)
Moon Dogg The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.29 04:27:00 - [206] Throwing my support behind this effort! *********************************** "Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."
Luunij Kao	Posted - 2008.12.29 04:29:00 - [207] I am in favor of this.
Tiberone GoonFleet	Posted - 2008.12.29 04:31:00 - [208] hey guys, what's going on in this thread is good.
Hapkidokid	Posted - 2008.12.29 04:37:00 - [209] i'm in favor of the 0.0 love
Hapkidokid	Posted - 2008.12.29 04:42:00 - [210] just a add on to my last.. what will this new sov and pos develoment do for exploring.. it will make exploring a system way more dangerous.... any thoughts on this?

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