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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Vietone
Gallente
Mercury Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.14 17:38:00 -
[271]
You must have been one unlucky curse.
Even with just a single ECCM on my falcon, I am able to see a huge difference in my chance of being jammed.
Also, having an insanely high sensor strength never guarantees that you will never be jammed, but will ensure that the chances are lower.
If a falcon puts all his jammers on you just to get one cycle to get through, guess what, ECCM worked. Because without those ECCM, it would have taken maybe 1-2 instead of the 5-6 he might have equipped.
Might as well nerf and freelance sensor dampeners as well cause no matter how many Sensor boosters you equip on a ship, 3-4 sensor dampeners will easily put you in the same situation as ECMs would. |
Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2009.01.14 17:38:00 -
[272]
 Originally by: daisy dook
A cautionary tale for solo PvP, don't stay in range of a point.
Priceless, keep em coming. |
daisy dook
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Posted - 2009.01.14 17:39:00 -
[273]
Originally by: Cohkka
Originally by: daisy dook
A cautionary tale for solo PvP, don't stay in range of a point.
Priceless, keep em coming.
Glad you approve. |
Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
DEATH'S LEGION
Red Box.
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Posted - 2009.01.14 17:43:00 -
[274]
Originally by: PsychoBones Jr
Just wanted to throw out there for the "Fit ECCM you noobs" crowd that this Falcon hit 75% of it's jams on my 101 sensor strength Curse
Hmm, if true that is indeed very odd, from the killmail I'd estimate the falcon had probably a 2/1/1/1 setup, so he had 1 amarr racial and 4 others.
The amarr racial would have less than 15% success ratio per cycle, and the others around 4%.
You dont even need to go any further to see there is no way he can get that lucky without trying for a million years.
So there must have been something else wrong, and if we run the numbers for his jammers against a Curse without ECCM fitted (50% amarr racial, 15% others) we end up suspiciously close to the 75% chance to jam (if he focuses all jammers on you) you experienced.
Conclusion: you simply forgot to turn on the midslot eccm modules in the heat of combat, or capped out to a point where they turned off (unlikely though).
!Lowslot eccm is always active, for midslot eccm modules remember you need to turn them on so they take effect! |
Rogue Lilly
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.01.14 17:43:00 -
[275]
Edited by: Rogue Lilly on 14/01/2009 17:46:34
I agree that the best way to fix ecm is to get rid of it and replace caldari specialty with another form of Ewar. I've used ecm myself many times, but i find that it disgusts me to use as i feel no challenge. When i fly a falcon i feel as if i have a win-button. I know a majority of MMO players want the win-button and somehow have more fun if they have it easy but to me the joy in a game is challenge, which i don't feel with ecm. Every other Ewar is circumstantial and adds a little bit to battle, while ecm is a game-breaker that allows a single ship to effectively remove 4 other ships from combat.
lets be realistic, it is chance based but with the ship bonus, the skills that effect it and the almost nill chance of anyone equipping the stupid eccm the chance of someone not being perma-jammed is pretty slim.
simple proof that it is a problem:
when you're in a fleet do you have to have target painters, or sensor dampers, no. you do have to have ecm though, in fact most battles i've seen lately include the statement "we have more ecm, we win"....or "they have more ecm, they win." have you ever heard this about any other ewar?
I know i shouldn't be complaining as missles are hated in pvp so at least with ecm i as caldari don't get kicked out of every fleet and people actually want me around. (yay i'm wanted) But frankly i feel as if i'd have much more fun with a module that had less drastic effects and needed to be used under specific circumstances to be well played.
if ecm in general was changed to act like burst ecm where it only breaks the locks instead of jamming for 20 seconds. The target would still lose valuable dps waiting to reacquire a lock and there would be some challange to playing, but it would need to be targeted and ranged like direct ecm. |
Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2009.01.14 18:27:00 -
[276]
Originally by: Cohkka
But I guess a falcon should be able to do it? Now that makes sense...
The day you find a solo Falcon let me know.
Quote:
Your logic is way off. If someone took precautions and carefully choose his fight he should be able to disengage when he meets a certain point (like killing off the scramblers). In a fight taking that long its not unusual when the attacker disengages as reinforcement arrives. This is just a perfect example of a Falcon destroying small scale/solo PvP.
No amount of precautions should enable you to solo prevail against a 5 people gang or even escape from it after engaging.
That said, if it was just the falcon he would have escape just fine. What got him was a combination of tacklers and the falcon, which is perfectly fair on my view.
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Murina
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.14 18:30:00 -
[277]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
That said, if it was just the falcon he would have escape just fine. What got him was a combination of tacklers and the falcon, which is perfectly fair on my view.
Their would be summat wrong with the game if a single ship could beat or even escape a BS, 2 ewar fitted recons and a couple of frigs unless it was uber tanked and station/gate hugging. |
Thetys
Caldari
Breed of Malakka
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Posted - 2009.01.14 18:59:00 -
[278]
the whole EW thing is unbalanced because of the falcon. the ugly mix of range of 200km and more and the ability to warp cloak is just too sweet. bring the falcon range in line with the other recons and everything will be fine. i do not think EW is overpowered in general but the falcon is.
i barely see scorps in pvp, but whenever i stick out my nose of the station i get swarmed by falcs. soo many sweet fights have been destroyed because of falcons, our falcs and theirs.
counterfalcons? - oh yeah! from my point of view everyone has at least ONE falcon alt (i refused to hop on the train till now, but i consider training one). we put up a small gang of 10 peeps, we got 2-4 alt falcons. this is BS!
at the moment we decided to use our falcs as emergency button or to counterjam other falcons. this shows how powerfull the falcon is and how it is used as an we-win-button.
put up a 10 vs 10 pvp thing with even skills/ships/fitting and give team a 1 or 2 falcs. the falcon team will not loose a single ship - we did that soo many times.
falcon pvp is almost riskless, like nano***s earlier, 200km, jam-jam-jam, "..oh that ship is aproaching me..", cloak - bye sucker
wait there is ECCM, fit that! - what a joke!
no single ship in eve has that important role as the falcon, check killboards, if gangs have to relay that hard on one single ship - something is wrong
try to pvp without falcs, you'll be soo dead!
i wish my pilgrim could take out 2 bs from 200km, prevent the BS from doing DMG, prevent the BS from doing EW things like web, scram and prevent the BS from remote rep - oh wow!
enough whining :) but it's nothing but the ugly truth
so long
Thetys
------ |
Tank CEO
Caldari
Dark Cartel
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Posted - 2009.01.14 19:29:00 -
[279]
I agree, get rid of ECM. .
Teamspeak Rumble Recording! Vote for homepage
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Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2009.01.14 20:11:00 -
[280]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
No amount of precautions should enable you to solo prevail against a 5 people gang or even escape from it after engaging.
Why? Because you're scared of what a capeable PvPer could do to you and your friends? Like I said in another post a lot of players don't want to work for their kills, they want it the easy way - removing risks at ALL costs. These people wouldn't even dare to undock years ago when their numbers weren't at least three fold of the enemy. Smart players can deal with multiple targets on their own, there are ways and means. As soon as a Falcon comes into the equation it's not even worth trying only a big portion of luck will help you.
Quote:
The day you find a solo Falcon let me know.
Pretty rubbish excuse for being untouchable, don't you think?
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Murina
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.14 20:16:00 -
[281]
Originally by: Cohkka
Smart players can deal with multiple targets on their own, there are ways and means.
Smart players can SOMETIMES deal with multiple idiots with no clue how to pvp, but with piloting skills and game knowledge equal the solo player will always lose to multiple ships.
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Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2009.01.14 20:30:00 -
[282]
Originally by: Murina
Smart players can SOMETIMES deal with multiple idiots with no clue how to pvp, but with piloting skills and game knowledge equal the solo player will always lose to multiple ships.
There is a biiiig gap between skilled PvPers and your ordinary gank bangers. Rarely you'll find a good solopilot up against equal players (just because there aren't that many), but yeah if he does he's toast, that's to be expected. Maybe the abscence of solo PvP caused a temporary loss of memory or something, but it's still very true.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2009.01.14 20:32:00 -
[283]
Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 14/01/2009 20:34:00
Originally by: Cohkka
Why? Because you're scared of what a capeable PvPer could do to you and your friends? Like I said in another post a lot of players don't want to work for their kills, they want it the easy way - removing risks at ALL costs. These people wouldn't even dare to undock years ago when their numbers weren't at least three fold of the enemy. Smart players can deal with multiple targets on their own, there are ways and means. As soon as a Falcon comes into the equation it's not even worth trying only a big portion of luck will help you.
On the contrarie, my dear, I want to ADD risks. Engaging when you are in advantage while being always able to bail out when the situation change is a risk free endeavor. If you engage and things turn to be not what you expect them to be, bad luck for you, time to die.
And please, it is only possible to deal with multiple opponents solo if they are complete idiots. A game shouldn't ever be balanced based on aberrant behavior born in stupidity.
Quote:
Pretty rubbish excuse for being untouchable, don't you think?
First a Falcon is hardly untouchable. Look at any killboard of any big alliance and you will see hundreds of them dead.
Second, as long as it is not able to engage alone it means that the opponent is a gang. So in the eventuality the falcon decides to run, it will leave its allies pined and probably dead, therefore incurring in losses for its side, which is the desirable result for anyone who decices to engage and is outplayed. Who cares if the falcon ran when the ships it was trying to help died?
Quote:
There is a biiiig gap between skilled PvPers and your ordinary gank bangers. Rarely you'll find a good solopilot up against equal players (just because there aren't that many), but yeah if he does he's toast, that's to be expected. Maybe the abscence of solo PvP caused a temporary loss of memory or something, but it's still very true.
There is no such a thing of ubber skilled pvpers, sorry, there is just dellusional people who think too much of themselves. This game is hardly brain surgery or rocket science. Being good at it is as difficult as being a tic tac toe champion.
=====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.14 20:39:00 -
[284]
ECM is overpowered. You have to real stupid to not understand that. Just to put it out there.
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Major Celine
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Posted - 2009.01.14 20:43:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Thetys
i barely see scorps in pvp, but whenever i stick out my nose of the station i get swarmed by falcs.
Posts experiences with not being able to handle falcons...
You should stay docked because you are terrible at pvp.
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Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2009.01.14 20:45:00 -
[286]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
ECM is overpowered. You have to real stupid to not understand that. Just to put it out there.
If your inference is correct you would have a better case if you didn't understand that ECM is overpowered, Amira. Then you wouldbe able to show by example. 
=====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Murina
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.14 20:46:00 -
[287]
Originally by: Cohkka
Originally by: Murina
Smart players can SOMETIMES deal with multiple idiots with no clue how to pvp, but with piloting skills and game knowledge equal the solo player will always lose to multiple ships.
There is a biiiig gap between skilled PvPers and your ordinary gank bangers. Rarely you'll find a good solopilot up against equal players (just because there aren't that many), but yeah if he does he's toast, that's to be expected. Maybe the abscence of solo PvP caused a temporary loss of memory or something, but it's still very true.
Solo pvp is more simple math and opportunity than actual skill, unless you count in game knowledge and target choice as a skill. EVE has become rather predictable as far as ship fittings are concerned so a solo pvper if he is experienced should know pretty much exactly what he can and cannot beat before he decides to engage.
That is why certain types of ppl dislike falcons cos they add unpredictability into a fight that these so called skilled pvpers are unwilling to adapt to on the fly.
Personally i love gang combat on the other hand and especially when falcons/ecm are involved as they throw a spanner in the works and force me and my gangs to think fast and adapt during a fight instead of us just knowing exactly how we are gonna win before we even engage.
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Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.14 20:50:00 -
[288]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
ECM is overpowered. You have to real stupid to not understand that. Just to put it out there.
If your inference is correct you would have a better case if you didn't understand that ECM is overpowered, Amira. Then you wouldbe able to show by example.
There is a good reason why I trained recon 5 and all jamming skills to 4-5. There is also a good reason that thousands of new accounts are created to train the exact same thing in only a few months time.
This is the real reason why ccp is not nerfing falcons because it gives them more money. Everyone has to get a falcon alt to be viable soon = ccp collects cash.
Sorry but you and your squad here are very naive. ECM, esp falcons, are very much overpowered and are so for a very good reason. Wich is, ccp likes to hoe for money instead of actually making this game enjoyable.
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Murina
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.14 21:07:00 -
[289]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
There is a good reason why I trained recon 5 and all jamming skills to 4-5. There is also a good reason that thousands of new accounts are created to train the exact same thing in only a few months time.
Cos like command ships, logistics and cyno skills....ect ect, its a good support skill to have on a ALT but not so great and pretty useless to have on a main. |
Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 21:10:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
There is a good reason why I trained recon 5 and all jamming skills to 4-5. There is also a good reason that thousands of new accounts are created to train the exact same thing in only a few months time.
This is the real reason why ccp is not nerfing falcons because it gives them more money. Everyone has to get a falcon alt to be viable soon = ccp collects cash.
You already need a second account to scout, open Cynos, etc. I don't see how exactly Falcons changed this.
Quote:
Sorry but you and your squad here are very naive. ECM, esp falcons, are very much overpowered and are so for a very good reason. Wich is, ccp likes to hoe for money instead of actually making this game enjoyable.
ECM does what is meant to do. It is not overpowered in the slighest, unless the opponent lacks a brain, but then again anything would be overpowered against such unfortunate person. Thinking about it you have my sympathy, Lyria, you are an example of perseverance. |
Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.14 21:12:00 -
[291]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
ECM does what is meant to do. It is not overpowered in the slighest, unless the opponent lacks a brain, but then again anything would be overpowered against such unfortunate person. Thinking about it you have my sympathy, Lyria, you are an example of perseverance.
Yes ECM does what it is meant to do. To bring in more money for CCP. I'm feel sorry for you that fails to realise this. |
Jonas Barcal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.14 21:13:00 -
[292]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Yes ECM does what it is meant to do. To bring in more money for CCP. I'm feel sorry for you that fails to realise this.
LOL.. That's the only thing CCP exists to do it's a company. |
Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2009.01.14 21:14:00 -
[293]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Yes ECM does what it is meant to do. To bring in more money for CCP. I'm feel sorry for you that fails to realise this.
As about everything they put in the game, unless CCP has turned into a philantropic institution and I missed the memo. |
Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 21:15:00 -
[294]
Originally by: Jonas Barcal
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Yes ECM does what it is meant to do. To bring in more money for CCP. I'm feel sorry for you that fails to realise this.
LOL.. That's the only thing CCP exists to do it's a company.
Wich is why they make ECM and falcons overpowered so many people feel forced to train a falcon alt = more money to ccp. I just want people in here to admit it. ECM is overpowered right now. |
Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.14 21:16:00 -
[295]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Yes ECM does what it is meant to do. To bring in more money for CCP. I'm feel sorry for you that fails to realise this.
As about everything they put in the game, unless CCP has turned into a philantropic institution and I missed the memo.
Making the game alot worse for many just to squeeze and extra buck is not the same thing as not making money at all. You like in some sort of black and white world? You know many of us humans have evolved to something that uses greyscales and colors instead of digital black and white reasoning. In short, you are fail. |
Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 21:20:00 -
[296]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Making the game alot worse for many just to squeeze and extra buck is not the same thing as not making money at all. You like in some sort of black and white world? You know many of us humans have evolved to something that uses greyscales and colors instead of digital black and white reasoning. In short, you are fail.
If they make the game worse for most they will lose more money than win, so rest assured they won't do it. But if they make the game worse for some, like you, while making it better for most, they will be just fine, as is the case with ECM. |
Jonas Barcal
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 21:22:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Making the game alot worse for many just to squeeze and extra buck is not the same thing as not making money at all.
Actually it's CCP's legal duty to maximise revenue if making the game alot worse for you will bring in more money long term for them that's what they have to do.
Whether or not ECM does that is another matter and whether or not ECM gets nerfed will largely depend on times scales on ambulation, T3 etc as they're big ticket items atm not small gang warfare.
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Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.14 21:22:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
If they make the game worse for most they will lose more money than win, so rest assured they won't do it. But if they make the game worse for some, like you, while making it better for most, they will be just fine, as is the case with ECM.
You are forgetting the addiction. Your life as a ****** addict will always get worse but it doesn't mean you just quit if it gets too crappy. ECM is not annoying enough to make most people mass quit because of only that but it is enough overpowered for many to open another account and give ccp more money. That's why it works out. As said, it's not a black and white world like you like to portrait it. |
Jonas Barcal
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 21:25:00 -
[299]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
You are forgetting the addiction.
which is why selling drugs is the best business on earth.
CCP sell digital crack which is the next best thing.  |
Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
DEATH'S LEGION
Red Box.
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 21:28:00 -
[300]
Originally by: Jonas Barcal
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
You are forgetting the addiction.
which is why selling drugs is the best business on earth.
CCP sell digital crack which is the next best thing.
^^ Win. |
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