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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.10 15:01:00 -
[151]
Edited by: Murina on 10/01/2009 15:02:40
Originally by: CAiNE999 Targeting as in locking a ship is not equipment, modules are equipment in that sense your saying ECM should shut off propulsion, your hud, and your overview, as those are `equipment` on ships as well
RL ecm effects targeting systems.
THIS?.
Originally by: CAiNE999 instead of calling someone emo
THEN THIS LOL.
Originally by: CAiNE999 ECM IS NOT FINE!
No no not emo at all...... |
CAiNE999
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.10 15:04:00 -
[152]
Oh of course i forget, caps mean emo rage not trying to draw attention to something |
Jonas Barcal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.10 15:05:00 -
[153]
The only way this rubbish idea would have any use is if the ecm pilot could choose what modules to shut off.
i.e. scripts to turn of weapons, tanking, scramblers or propulsion (yes you can't move) etc
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Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.10 15:07:00 -
[154]
Edited by: Murina on 10/01/2009 15:09:17
Originally by: CAiNE999 Oh of course i forget, caps mean emo rage not trying to draw attention to something
Yea on a forum its the same as stamping your little foot.... |
CAiNE999
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.10 15:21:00 -
[155]
Edited by: CAiNE999 on 10/01/2009 15:24:35 Edited by: CAiNE999 on 10/01/2009 15:22:50 Because caps drawn attention *edit forgot something - again*
Right then lets hear your views on why ECM is balanced in the following
Vs other Ecm - Energy Ewar only draining 1-2 ships but having injectors to counter, and able still to fight as cap drains, or after in some cases
- Tracking Disrupting Ewar Reducing turret accuracy, but still the ability to fire and lock, point etc, and if transversal and speed is reduced, lessened effect, and why drone and missile boats are excluded and totally immune
- Sensor Dampening Ewar Reducing locking range/speed of at best, 1 ship to the point where it cannot lock a few KM away or take several times as long, only a danger to long range bs and small stuff, ie blasterthrons dont give a toss to range dampening and i dont see many if any speed damp fits
Then explain and justifiy why ECM can then completly shut down 1-4 ships either partially/extensively, or 1-2 give or take permantly throught a duration of a fight, and this is enough time to die in, not literally forever
Oh and why its not mainstream to train an alt solely for another recon ship
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Iva Soreass
Corporation456
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Posted - 2009.01.10 15:21:00 -
[156]
Edited by: Iva Soreass on 10/01/2009 15:26:21
Originally by: Murina
Bull**** - ECM//Falcons ARE Overpowered and anyone who says they aint fly the FOTM peice of ****e, the last time a ship//mod was as OP as the falcon//ecm is it was nerf'd back to the stone age (Damps//Arazu).
I have tryed to stay away from these falcon whine threads as i dont fly them and nor will train my alt for them as they are a plague and a stupid OP FOTM ship. |
Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.10 15:28:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Iva Soreass
Originally by: Murina
Bull**** - ECM//Falcons ARE Overpowered and anyone who says they aint fly the FOTM peice of ****e, the last time a ship//mod was as OP as the falcon//ecm is it was nerf'd back to the stone age (Damps//Arazu).
Damps were nerfed cos they were way too effective on non bonused ships and like a lot of ppl i think the bonused ships like the arazu needs a buff to damp str/range.
Try to contain your emo and language pls. |
SirMoric
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.01.10 15:40:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Iva Soreass Edited by: Iva Soreass on 10/01/2009 15:26:21
Originally by: Murina
Bull**** - ECM//Falcons ARE Overpowered and anyone who says they aint fly the FOTM peice of ****e, the last time a ship//mod was as OP as the falcon//ecm is it was nerf'd back to the stone age (Damps//Arazu).
I have tryed to stay away from these falcon whine threads as i dont fly them and nor will train my alt for them as they are a plague and a stupid OP FOTM ship.
It is obviously above your level of comprehension to fit the equipment needed to counter ECM, I've stated it before, and I'll spam every thread with it until people start using it.
Just because it's easier to get things nerfed, than infact using the part of your body that is located in you scull and equip countermeasures, doesn't make it overpowered. It's you, who are underpowered, my dear friend.
rgds |
tymus procura
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Posted - 2009.01.10 15:43:00 -
[159]
With the removal of nano ecm if the only chance of small gang warefare ( 3-5 ships is small gang warfare not 10-20) you remove that and your left with blob warfare. Any further nerfs to combat ships is going to kill skirmish gangs and restrict it too much if anything ewar ships should be given a boost to keep up with the falcon/rook. thats my two cents now spend the next few pages flaming me for not getting on the nerf train. |
Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.10 15:45:00 -
[160]
Edited by: Murina on 10/01/2009 15:48:26
Originally by: CAiNE999
- Energy Ewar only draining 1-2 ships but having injectors to counter, and able still to fight as cap drains, or after in some cases
Superb effect when used in solo combat and on the recons with 2 ewar bonuses. Also highly effective and regularly used on non bonused ships its effect is also 100% guaranteed within its effective range.
Originally by: CAiNE999 - Tracking Disrupting Ewar Reducing turret accuracy, but still the ability to fire and lock, point etc, and if transversal and speed is reduced, lessened effect, and why drone and missile boats are excluded and totally immune
Another specific ewar system used effectively on solo ships especially the recons that have 2 ewar systems. Also effective on non bonused ships its effect is also 100% guaranteed within its effective range.
Originally by: CAiNE999 - Sensor Dampening Ewar Reducing locking range/speed of at best, 1 ship to the point where it cannot lock a few KM away or take several times as long, only a danger to long range bs and small stuff, ie blasterthrons dont give a toss to range dampening and i dont see many if any speed damp fits
A great system when used on non bonused ships even after the nerf due to its effect being 100% guaranteed within its effective range.
Originally by: CAiNE999 Then explain and justify why ECM can...blah blah.
ECM is useless when used on non bonused ships due to its chance based mechanic, it is also useless in solo combat and close range combat for the same reason (unlike all the other ewar systems that work fine on non bonused ships).
It is a gang ship/module pure and simple and the only way it can KILL another ship is if it has at least one more ship along to tackle and do dmg.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
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Posted - 2009.01.10 15:45:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: Malcanis
Whereas not knowing if you're going to disrupt them at all is just fine...?
You know as soon as you activate the module if its worked or not with ALL ewar as it is and you know the exact effect they have.
Well ECM is gonna be nerfed, since CCP have low resists to whining. So you can have uncertain and weak or certain and weak.
Link to the announcement pls?.
I have seen a lot of threads started (by the same ppl over and over again) but all those threads would have died if it had not been for ppl saying ECM was fine.
Your argument and idea has failed try not to be so bitter about it.
Did you miss the part where I said I have flown falcons a lot? I have. I still do sometimes, when there's no reasonable alternative. I have pretty good skills and a lot of experience with Caldari ECM ships. I'm not theorycrafting about some ship I know nothing about here. I'm speaking for personal knowledge: Falcons are bloody boring ships to fly and they're boring to fight. I do NOT believe that ECM ships are overpowered, I believe that they're bad ships because they're dull.
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Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.10 15:51:00 -
[162]
Edited by: Murina on 10/01/2009 15:55:08
Originally by: Malcanis
Did you miss the part where I said I have flown falcons a lot? I have. I still do sometimes, when there's no reasonable alternative. I have pretty good skills and a lot of experience with Caldari ECM ships. I'm not theorycrafting about some ship I know nothing about here. I'm speaking for personal knowledge: Falcons are bloody boring ships to fly and they're boring to fight. I do NOT believe that ECM ships are overpowered, I believe that they're bad ships because they're dull.
You can apply that logic to any ship that works at long range, warp in, align out/lock and fire is hardly exciting.....on the other hand the actual combat can be, especially if you have a ECM ship along for some tactical jamming against high risk assets.
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Iva Soreass
Corporation456
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Posted - 2009.01.10 16:03:00 -
[163]
Edited by: Iva Soreass on 10/01/2009 16:05:56 I say it again BULL****E and getting emo lol? next you will be saying go back to WoW huh ?
As for damps being op yes they was never said they wasnt, but the nerf made arazu's absoulute peices of ****e.
You know it and i know it the failcon is overpowered and eccm does NOT work properly.
You can sit there and be the failcon fanboy all you want but you know it's gonna get nerf'd its just a matter of when.
So have fun flying it in its current state while you can cause it wont be for long.
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CAiNE999
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.10 16:08:00 -
[164]
I asked for a comaparison of ECM vs Other EWAR
your talking about solo, sure they can solo, but that again is 1-2 targets at best, and not bc or above at once, whereas ECM users like the falcon can do way more, and totally shut them down, neuts can do, in circumstances where the target isnt passive or fitted with autos/launchers. as for not being able to fly solo in them, thats a racial trait, which can be adapated to. Also how many FC will take another recon over a falcon if presented with that choice for general purpose fleets?
Onto that racial trait, lets take the caracal and the falcon, the caracal in general opinon, cant solo, but with tackle, prop mod and a buffer tank it is capabale, to the falcon this tank is its ECM as a tank equivalent a racial problem with caldari is they cant tank and tackle as well as the other 3. thats not a problem with its ewar field the ECM, thats the race, fit a prop mod and a scram to a falcon and know knows, you can probably kill cruisers, like most recons.
And whats this about Non bonused ships? im not talking about non bonused ships
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Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.10 16:09:00 -
[165]
Edited by: Murina on 10/01/2009 16:16:35
Originally by: Iva Soreass You know it and i know it the failcon is overpowered and eccm does NOT work properly.
The falcon is fine and eccm can give a 90+% boost to str, a rather larger boost than any other mod gives to a stat....
Originally by: Iva Soreass You can sit there and be the failcon fanboy all you want but you know it's gonna get nerf'd its just a matter of when.
I doubt it but if your right there's no need for you to bleat out any more emo hate rants then....
Originally by: Iva Soreass So have fun flying it in its current state while you can cause it wont be for long.
I will and it will not be changed just so ppl like you can run around in your limited gank gangs.
Originally by: Iva Soreass I say it again BULL****E and getting emo lol? next you will be saying go back to WoW huh ?
After reading your posting style id say that will be your probable next line..
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Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.10 16:15:00 -
[166]
Edited by: Murina on 10/01/2009 16:15:59
Originally by: CAiNE999 I asked for a comparison of ECM vs Other EWAR
Then your asking a stupid question as the systems are not alike nor should they be.
Originally by: CAiNE999 your talking about solo, sure they can solo
Not effectively they cannot, while the other recons are great solo ships.
Originally by: CAiNE999 Also how many FC will take another recon over a falcon if presented with that choice for general purpose fleets?
That depends on the gang setup, purpose and content.
Originally by: CAiNE999 And whats this about Non bonused ships? im not talking about non bonused ships
You should be as you are preaching about ALL ewar systems including ECM and ALL the others apart from ECM are very effective on non-bonused ships while ecm is a waste of time on anything but a bonused ship.
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CAiNE999
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.10 16:17:00 -
[167]
`I doubt it but if your right there's no need for you to bleat out any more emo hate rants then....`
Rofl is like everyone emo to you?
`I will and it will not be changed just so ppl like you can run around in your limited gank gangs.`
So people like you can run around in your boring ECM gangs where half the players sit around staring at each other like gormless ****s where the lucky few (probably the side with more falcons) shoot them in the face
kind of reminds me of some crazy FPS game where one team picks up a powerup denying the other side the ability to shoot back and then watch them run around screaming till they die
Give us ECM that doesnt flick the damn off switches on our targetting systems and deny us PvP
Id rather have my ship being gimped by Ewar that disrupts systems, targeting range, cap, tracking, than sit there like a gormless **** and watch myself dying
As for fighting big gangs, chances are, yes they have falcons too Small gang with falcons vs Big gang with Falcons = death
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CAiNE999
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.10 16:20:00 -
[168]
Edited by: CAiNE999 on 10/01/2009 16:21:20 *edit typos suck* Preaching about other Ewar? there are whole threads about this i was stating them to be used as a comparison im talking about ECM, thats the falcon, rook, scorp, and BB`s field i dont want them `alike` i want them balanced
Also wow, the scorp needs love |
Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.10 16:22:00 -
[169]
Originally by: CAiNE999
Rofl is like everyone emo to you?
Bad language is a sign of poor self control.
Originally by: CAiNE999 ....like gormless ****s......than sit there like a gormless ****
Try to chill.
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CAiNE999
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.10 16:42:00 -
[170]
I could say the same about shameless presumptions of someone IRL but i cba to go on about that stuffs anymore
As for chill, im perfectly fine ty, seems forums dont like the T word
Its true though, that's all you end up doing, standing there staring gormlessly as you go down |
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.01.10 17:34:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Murina The falcon is fine and eccm can give a 90+% boost to str, a rather larger boost than any other mod gives to a stat....
MWD gives you a 500+% velocity increase AB gives you over 100% velocity increase 1600mm armor plates can double the armor HP of a cruiser
The only reasons the ECCM gives such a proportionately high boost compared to other modules (Sensor Booster, Tracking Computer) are that those modules would be overpowered if they had a 90% boost, since those modules actually do something when you're not facing their corresponding ewar. |
Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.10 17:52:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Murina The falcon is fine and eccm can give a 90+% boost to str, a rather larger boost than any other mod gives to a stat....
Originally by: Terianna Eri MWD gives you a 500+% velocity increase
And has a proportionate effect on cap and sig and PG/CPU..
Originally by: Terianna Eri AB gives you over 100% velocity increase
Similar boost that eccm gives.
Originally by: Terianna Eri 1600mm armor plates can double the armor HP of a cruiser
ECCM doubles (*ok 96% but meh) the sig of a ship and has much less fitting problems than a 1600 plate on a cruiser would give.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
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Posted - 2009.01.10 18:20:00 -
[173]
Again, I say that my problem with ECM is not that it's overpowered or uncounterable - I have argued at length against both of those points - but that it's not fun.
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The Tzar
Malicious Intentions The Church.
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Posted - 2009.01.11 11:51:00 -
[174]
Yah and being primaried at close range is great fun. \end sarcasm
At least with a falon you can have a major effect on the outcome of tbe battle rather than say popping in 10 seconds because this time you decided to come out in your leet absolution pvp ship.
If its not much fun for you..., dont fly one fella! But dont deny the rest of us that option because you dont enjoy flying them.
Does that seem reasonable? |
Aeronarr
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Posted - 2009.01.11 15:36:00 -
[175]
I tend to agree with the OP. In most strategy games, there is a semblance of rock paper scissors; one unit is good at one thing, but weak against another, and this makes it fun and interesting. However, I have played a few strategy games where the units' strengths and weaknesses are so exaggerated, so specialized, that it just boils down to dumb luck as far as who happens to build what. It's not fun.
I think that's the problem with ECM in its current form. The ships that are good at it are really good at it, and every other ship may as well not fit it.
I envisioned ECM originally to be the kind of thing a player might decide to throw on their ship for an extra little benefit, something like a webbifier or target painter.
What if ECM worked as such:
*** If ECM targets a ship, it always works, period. However, the lock disruption is very temporary, the duration modified slightly by ship bonuses and ECCM. Then something would need to be put into place to prevent permanent disruption from multiple ECMs, perhaps a "buff" that prevents ECM from affecting a ship more than every so many seconds (lets say your ship's sensors calibrate to the ECM, so you are immune until the enemy ECM recalibrates, a la Borg shields).
***
This would make it less important to build a pure ECM boat, and would make ECM something the average ship might not mind having onboard. I'm imagining the disruption being very short though, perhaps 5 seconds without bonuses. Annoying, effective, but not all-or-nothing. Basically, ECM always works (just like a webbifier), but the duration is the variable. |
Mysis
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Posted - 2009.01.11 16:32:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Malcanis ECM ships have to be useless for everything but ECM, but or ECM ships to be worth flying at all that means they have to be too good at ECM.
I have an alt that flies an officer fitted Rook (hence posting with alt) i personally love ECM.
Your point is completly stupid and you need to learn to play, the ship is good at 1 thing and 1 thing only jamming, if someone fits ECCM i instapop if i fail. i say fighting passive tanks arnt fun and drake is (basicly) useless without passive tank so remove it from game.
tl;dr You suck, learn to play or i will come jam you. |
Scarlet Pimpdaddy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.11 16:35:00 -
[177]
Let's get rid of ECM whines! |
Mysis
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Posted - 2009.01.11 16:36:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Aeronarr I tend to agree with the OP. In most strategy games, there is a semblance of rock paper scissors; one unit is good at one thing, but weak against another, and this makes it fun and interesting. However, I have played a few strategy games where the units' strengths and weaknesses are so exaggerated, so specialized, that it just boils down to dumb luck as far as who happens to build what. It's not fun.
I think that's the problem with ECM in its current form. The ships that are good at it are really good at it, and every other ship may as well not fit it.
I envisioned ECM originally to be the kind of thing a player might decide to throw on their ship for an extra little benefit, something like a webbifier or target painter.
What if ECM worked as such:
*** If ECM targets a ship, it always works, period. However, the lock disruption is very temporary, the duration modified slightly by ship bonuses and ECCM. Then something would need to be put into place to prevent permanent disruption from multiple ECMs, perhaps a "buff" that prevents ECM from affecting a ship more than every so many seconds (lets say your ship's sensors calibrate to the ECM, so you are immune until the enemy ECM recalibrates, a la Borg shields).
***
This would make it less important to build a pure ECM boat, and would make ECM something the average ship might not mind having onboard. I'm imagining the disruption being very short though, perhaps 5 seconds without bonuses. Annoying, effective, but not all-or-nothing. Basically, ECM always works (just like a webbifier), but the duration is the variable.
Yes please do this then i can fly arzu with scripted sensor damps for locking time and fit these jammers, try thinking of ballance or other specialty ships aswell not just T1 pvp ships.
When thinking ballance most make there basis of current fittings but you need to consider that fittings would change to take advantage of good combinations. |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
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Posted - 2009.01.11 16:44:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Mysis
Originally by: Malcanis ECM ships have to be useless for everything but ECM, but or ECM ships to be worth flying at all that means they have to be too good at ECM.
I have an alt that flies an officer fitted Rook (hence posting with alt) i personally love ECM.
Your point is completly stupid and you need to learn to play, the ship is good at 1 thing and 1 thing only jamming, if someone fits ECCM i instapop if i fail. i say fighting passive tanks arnt fun and drake is (basicly) useless without passive tank so remove it from game.
tl;dr You suck, learn to play or i will come jam you.
You say my point is completely stupid and then in the same sentence, reiterate it. Your debate tactics baffle and confuse me.
PS Drakes should have a buffer tank and a rack of HAM II for PvP. |
Uncle Smokey
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Posted - 2009.01.11 16:45:00 -
[180]
i got better idea lets get rid of WCS. |
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