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Let's get rid of ECM

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2009.01.09 12:46:00 - [61] Originally by: Murina /points HE started it...
Beverly Sparks	Posted - 2009.01.09 12:56:00 - [62] Originally by: Sedious Bloke Edited by: Sedious Bloke on 09/01/2009 12:16:49 "Thank you for not reading my post." You are very welcomed. Thank you for wasting my internets The best part(before i could divert my eyes) was where you said it was worthless and overpowered within 3 sentences of each other. Only you can waste your internet. If you don't like the show, change the channel.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2009.01.09 13:01:00 - [63] Originally by: Sedious Bloke Edited by: Sedious Bloke on 09/01/2009 12:16:49 "Thank you for not reading my post." You are very welcomed. Thank you for wasting my internets The best part(before i could divert my eyes) was where you said it was worthless and overpowered within 3 sentences of each other. Allow me to assist.
daisy dook	Posted - 2009.01.09 13:10:00 - [64] Edited by: daisy dook on 09/01/2009 13:11:18 The OP has a point, it is either overpowered (dominates the engagement most likely because precautions have not been taken), overpowered and useless (because the engagement would be won without ECM) or just useless (you had no effect on the engagement). As a Falcon pilot, the must fun is slipping through a gate camp to get to my optimal. Once there I either dominate a small scale engagement or have no effect (depends on my luck for the day) but I'm certainly not having the same fun as the guys doing the shooting. Reducing the power level of Caldari e-war would allow CCP to give the Caldari recons a role other than ranged ewar. Just to clarify: 1. I am not whining that a Falcon is overpowered 2. I am not supporting people that say ECM can not be countered 3. I am agreeing that ECM is a very powerful effect that CCP has chosen to balance by making any ECM ship only to be effective as an ECM ship. 4. I am agreeing that I would like to fly a Caldari recon that has a chance to actually use its weapons systems. --Edits for formatting
Venomae Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.01.09 13:12:00 - [65] Originally by: Malcanis Whine Whine Whine Whine Whine... Bring Your Own Falcon. Enough said.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.01.09 13:27:00 - [66] Originally by: Venomae Originally by: Malcanis Whine Whine Whine Whine Whine... Bring Your Own Falcon. Enough said. This very same argument already failed in the speed nerf discussion and is equally invalid for solution acquisition.
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2009.01.09 13:30:00 - [67] Originally by: Quigon Jimm Edited by: Quigon Jimm on 09/01/2009 11:56:28 Seriously, for EvE to be any where near true to "SciFi" warfare, ECM has to exist With no ECM its whoever has the biggest gang with the most DPS will win. Sure, it'd be fun I guess, but very 1-dimensional. ECM enables a smaller gang to effectively engage a stronger enemy and stand a chance of winning the fight. I Don't want to call this a whine thread, because you make coherent points and they are valid, but I think removing ECM full stop would not be a wise move for the greater good. Ewar =/= ECM ... the problem with ECM is that it does scale very well with more ECM ships used, much better than any other ewar form ...
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2009.01.09 13:30:00 - [68] Edited by: Omarvelous on 09/01/2009 13:31:43 Well, I like to defend ECM - but I'll at least grant you its boring as anything to fly (I hate giving up a dps boat and flying a falcon). That said, I disagree with your replacement ideas. NO DRONE BONUS TO CALDARI SHIPS. I hate suggesting drones as a weapons platform for a caldari ship - its not their racial flavor whatsoever. If you want to give the falcon weapons - stick to hybrids or missiles - there's a reason why I bothered investing 11 million skillpoints between gunnery and missiles and only a shade over 1 million in drones. Its the equivalent of saying the Lachesis/Arazu should get a hybrid range bonus - wrong racial bonus. A defender missile bonus - meh - then the recons would only be useful against other caldari ships (or the phoon). One idea I can think of, that wouldn't step on any other race's shoes would be to alter ECM into dropping the number of targets the opponent can lock down to 1, and removing the chance factor. It would act like a burst and drop all their locks at first - then as they try to re-lock they can only lock 1 target. It would be very effective against remote repping gangs, and it wouldn't ruin small gang/solo warfare. If range annoys people - fine, make it so this module doesn't need signal distortion amps, and give the Caldari recons some weapon bonuses to hybrids and missiles. Or we could just leaves things alone.
CAiNE999 Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.01.09 13:50:00 - [69] (qouted) `With no ECM its whoever has the biggest gang with the most DPS will win. Sure, it'd be fun I guess, but very 1-dimensional. ECM enables a smaller gang to effectively engage a stronger enemy and stand a chance of winning the fight.` Yeah thats all very well in that aspect, enabling small gangs to fight larger ones, but unfortunatly thats in one situation and in a fair world where larger blobs dont take falcon ewar.....but oh wait they do in this age of taking no risk because people cant stand dying, despite cheap market and lvl 4 isk fountains rant over So what you get is people being ewar ****d by falcons and rendered completely useless, i second this white noise idea, in the fact that instead of lock, it fluctuates modules that are active to be enabled/disabled for a length of time 10-20 secs?, maybe blue flashing when its being tampered with. and altho it would be a bit lag enducing, some nice gfx effect on the affected ship would be nice, like sparks or stuff. this way your still being ewar-ed, but your not sitting there watching youself die Any takers on tampering with modules, blue flashing, unactivatable, chosen at random from activable modules
Jonny Nova	Posted - 2009.01.09 13:51:00 - [70] An EWar variety that disables modules rather than loosing lock would be a good game mechanic. There might also be a place for modules that disrupt incoming remote boosts like remote repairers and rechargers. To bust repair gangs, you would shut down your primary, rather than having to have some mechanic that shuts down multiple other ships; which is a little unreasonable.

Confessor ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.09 14:02:00 - [71] lets push you off a cliff.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2009.01.09 14:39:00 - [72] Originally by: Venomae Originally by: Malcanis Whine Whine Whine Whine Whine... Bring Your Own Falcon. Enough said. Thank you for not reading my post, made as it was by someone who spent most of 2008 in a Falcon.
Ancy Denaries Caldari Solaris Operations	Posted - 2009.01.09 14:41:00 - [73] Originally by: Confessor lets push you off a cliff. Wow. Just wow. That was so constructive that I have to break down and cry now. On a more serious note, the suggestion of a burst kind of mechanism that breaks your lock and allows you to relock at a reduced number of targets (perhaps an equal reduction in the amount of ECMS used on you) is a sane one, but I can't really tell how well it would work.
kyrv Caldari hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.09 14:41:00 - [74] There should be a highslot module that sends noise at Ecm from a ship that in a group of people causes the ship to overheat mid slot modules kinda like a counterwave, infact why not make it base AOE and in conjunction with a bufed up Automatic targeter boost its range with automatic lock to 150km's on anyship useing ecm on you upto three additional targets which cannot be shot at. This may mean sustained use of ecm, kills the target ships modules. Also pilots using ecm may need to be very selective about who is jammed instead of spamming many ships, perhapse hone that to only FC's or logitics.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2009.01.09 14:42:00 - [75] Originally by: Omarvelous Edited by: Omarvelous on 09/01/2009 13:31:43 Well, I like to defend ECM - but I'll at least grant you its boring as anything to fly (I hate giving up a dps boat and flying a falcon). That said, I disagree with your replacement ideas. NO DRONE BONUS TO CALDARI SHIPS. I hate suggesting drones as a weapons platform for a caldari ship - its not their racial flavor whatsoever. If you want to give the falcon weapons - stick to hybrids or missiles - there's a reason why I bothered investing 11 million skillpoints between gunnery and missiles and only a shade over 1 million in drones. Its the equivalent of saying the Lachesis/Arazu should get a hybrid range bonus - wrong racial bonus. A defender missile bonus - meh - then the recons would only be useful against other caldari ships (or the phoon). One idea I can think of, that wouldn't step on any other race's shoes would be to alter ECM into dropping the number of targets the opponent can lock down to 1, and removing the chance factor. It would act like a burst and drop all their locks at first - then as they try to re-lock they can only lock 1 target. It would be very effective against remote repping gangs, and it wouldn't ruin small gang/solo warfare. If range annoys people - fine, make it so this module doesn't need signal distortion amps, and give the Caldari recons some weapon bonuses to hybrids and missiles. Or we could just leaves things alone. I didn't ever say drone bonus, just a drone bay. You know, like every other race has on it's recons. I mean just because Amarr recons have the 2nd best EW, the best secondary EW, the best tanks, the best damage and a drone bonus to go with their massive BS-class drone bays....
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2009.01.09 14:43:00 - [76] Originally by: Confessor lets push you off a cliff. Thank you for making the best contribution you are capable of.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.01.09 14:50:00 - [77] Removing ECM would push the game even more towards the gank/tank slug fest kinda deal that sucks gigantic donkey balls. Keep it and we force ppl to be more mobile and versatile in their combat choices and strategies.
daisy dook	Posted - 2009.01.09 14:56:00 - [78] Originally by: Murina Removing ECM would push the game even more towards the gank/tank slug fest kinda deal that sucks gigantic donkey balls. Keep it and we force ppl to be more mobile and versatile in their combat choices and strategies. But I want an ECM ship to do more than just ECM; I want to shoot things and have a chance of surviving sob sob
Lord CH0w	Posted - 2009.01.09 15:00:00 - [79] hi there - new here but might as well drop and idea how about making ecm disable some of the systems in your vicitm ship? weapons, tank, cap regen, tank, target range or number of max targets? now we have 4 racials + 1 multi ecm module: how about make it one module with scripts for different types of modules, 5 choices we have and also we could make it for example also scale down from most possible (f.e cap regen) to least possible (gun disable or whatever) also we could have propose a strengh of such warfare (least possible = disabling 75% of system we are jamming - complete jam would be too harsh maybe???) i mean i m not into making ewar 100% possible, if more uncertain it is the better for me couse actually u would have to guess/hope what have u done to ur target or on what scale hence not 100% possible with max 75% of system possibilities its just an idea from newb :) c u in space
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2009.01.09 15:01:00 - [80] Edited by: Malcanis on 09/01/2009 15:04:04 Originally by: CAiNE999 (qouted) `With no ECM its whoever has the biggest gang with the most DPS will win. Sure, it'd be fun I guess, but very 1-dimensional. ECM enables a smaller gang to effectively engage a stronger enemy and stand a chance of winning the fight.` Yeah thats all very well in that aspect, enabling small gangs to fight larger ones, but unfortunatly thats in one situation and in a fair world where larger blobs dont take falcon ewar.....but oh wait they do in this age of taking no risk because people cant stand dying, despite cheap market and lvl 4 isk fountains rant over So what you get is people being ewar **d by falcons and rendered completely useless, i second this white noise idea, in the fact that instead of lock, it fluctuates modules that are active to be enabled/disabled for a length of time 10-20 secs?, maybe blue flashing when its being tampered with. and altho it would be a bit lag enducing, some nice gfx effect on the affected ship would be nice, like sparks or stuff. this way your still being ewar-ed, but your not sitting there watching youself die Any takers on tampering with modules, blue flashing, unactivatable, chosen at random from activable modules What if an ECM module caused a CPU penalty proportional to the strength of the ECM module vs that targets sensor strength. With random modules being temporarily** offlined, with a probability equal to their CPU consumption until all the "lost" CPU is accounted for. ECCM modules to increase sensor strength to reduce the effect. If the CPU penalty was a percentage then you would have small and large ships relatively equally affected. Small ships would still be somewhat more vulnerable as they have fewer modules and lower sensor strength, so the granularity of the effect is larger. Stacking penalties would apply, so little point putting more than 3 jammers on a ship unless it's the only target (and therefore probably doomed anyway) eg: a T2 racial jammer causes a base 25%* CPU penalty, modified by jam strength/sensor strength. Putting a jammer on a Megathron jam str 14.1, sensor strength 21 = 16.78% CPU penalty. The Mega 'loses' modules until 228.08 CPU worth have been offlined - probably 2-3 turrets and a low slot or 2. If the Mega had ECCM fitted it would lose only only about half as much CPU. The main problem I see with this idea is that it might make ECM worth fitting on non EW ships. But that's true of tracking disruptors and target painters too, whether people realise it or not. *I say 25% just as a number pulled from the air. Suggest better numbers.

Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2009.01.09 15:03:00 - [81] Originally by: Murina Removing ECM would push the game even more towards the gank/tank slug fest kinda deal that sucks gigantic donkey balls. Keep it and we force ppl to be more mobile and versatile in their combat choices and strategies. Removing is not a synonym for replacing.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.01.09 15:03:00 - [82] Edited by: Murina on 09/01/2009 15:04:04 Originally by: daisy dook Originally by: Murina Removing ECM would push the game even more towards the gank/tank slug fest kinda deal that sucks gigantic donkey balls. Keep it and we force ppl to be more mobile and versatile in their combat choices and strategies. But I want an ECM ship to do more than just ECM; I want to shoot things and have a chance of surviving sob sob Buy a rook or a scorp, work at closer ranges and stay aligned or work with RR gangs.....
BiggestT Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2009.01.09 15:05:00 - [83] I am in agreement. I fly falcons myself and find them boring and obligatory. For too long have I wanted to bring a blokh yet been denied due to my falcon being exploited. They also make PVP in general boring. Who cares if we start seeing RR bs gangs, at least its a fun change. EVE history t2 precisions
Beverly Sparks	Posted - 2009.01.09 15:08:00 - [84] Originally by: Murina Removing ECM would push the game even more towards the gank/tank slug fest kinda deal that sucks gigantic donkey balls. Keep it and we force ppl to be more mobile and versatile in their combat choices and strategies. That is quite close minded. What if they replaced ECM with something better, wouldn't that make the game better? Lets add diversity and create different combat situations for the pilots to adapt to. Lets not simply take people out of the battle, because as noted, that is not fun. Having your Armor repairer, or you damage mods go offline in the middle of a fight causes you to have to adapt, causes the better pilots to rise to the top. Instead of a binary fit ECCM or don't, and we don't care about the pilot skill, because you can't target anything anyway.
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2009.01.09 15:08:00 - [85] Originally by: Malcanis I didn't ever say drone bonus, just a drone bay. You know, like every other race has on it's recons. I mean just because Amarr recons have the 2nd best EW, the best secondary EW, the best tanks, the best damage and a drone bonus to go with their massive BS-class drone bays.... Meh - no drone bay on HACs - same for the recons - Id rather they boost the actual weapons platform. What do you think about my suggestion about ECM bursting your lock - then allowing you to only relock 1 target. ECCM could allow you to lock more than 1 target, and give a 50:50 chance you don't get bursted in the first place (without it you're 100% bursted).
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.01.09 15:23:00 - [86] Edited by: Murina on 09/01/2009 15:26:23 Originally by: Beverly Sparks Having your Armor repairer, or you damage mods go offline in the middle of a fight causes you to have to adapt. Nuets already have that effect on active tanks, and having dmg mods go offline is hardly the end of the world. Originally by: Beverly Sparks Instead of binary situations, fit ECCM or don't. With ECM we don't care about the pilot skill, because you can't target anything anyway. I never fit ECCM as my gangs use repositioning/maneuverability and versatile fittings plus a good amount of teamwork to beat ecm heavy gangs.
Esk Esme Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.01.09 15:34:00 - [87] Edited by: Esk Esme on 09/01/2009 15:34:39 never thought i see u whine mal but bolla<s m8 all caldari got left is ew also no drone's on these ships they r purly suport ship only get a grip ppl all this crap about nurfing, boost other ships mods not nurf its not over powerd shocking just shocking btw there are mods to counter ECM try fitting them if u think u might come across EWAR in hostie gang tbh didnt even bother to read all post as its just another whine
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2009.01.09 15:43:00 - [88] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Malcanis I didn't ever say drone bonus, just a drone bay. You know, like every other race has on it's recons. I mean just because Amarr recons have the 2nd best EW, the best secondary EW, the best tanks, the best damage and a drone bonus to go with their massive BS-class drone bays.... Meh - no drone bay on HACs - same for the recons - Id rather they boost the actual weapons platform. What do you think about my suggestion about ECM bursting your lock - then allowing you to only relock 1 target. ECCM could allow you to lock more than 1 target, and give a 50:50 chance you don't get bursted in the first place (without it you're 100% bursted). It would make ECm way too weak. And say that because long range HACs have no drone bay that medium range recons shouldn't either is not a stron argument IMO.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2009.01.09 15:45:00 - [89] Originally by: Esk Esme Edited by: Esk Esme on 09/01/2009 15:34:39 never thought i see u whine mal but bolla<s m8 all caldari got left is ew also no drone's on these ships they r purly suport ship only get a grip ppl all this crap about nurfing, boost other ships mods not nurf its not over powerd shocking just shocking btw there are mods to counter ECM try fitting them if u think u might come across EWAR in hostie gang tbh didnt even bother to read all post as its just another whine It's not really a whine you welsh get. I don't want to nerf Caldari ships, I want to make them more fun. And you've asked for a drone bay on the rook more times than I can remember you.
RD Jenka	Posted - 2009.01.09 15:55:00 - [90] I have a better idea, let's get rid of guns and missiles and add bumping damage so ECM would be useless as you don't have to lock your target at all. Or just use smartbombs on all ships + bumping damage so it would be like in an amusment park. ECM is fine as it is.



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